Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-07-2008, 03:29 PM #1
LovelyL LovelyL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 833

Favourites (more):
BB13: Scott
BB12: Louise
LovelyL LovelyL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 833

Favourites (more):
BB13: Scott
BB12: Louise
Default Ben Kinsella - Gun/Knife Crime

First things first my deepest condolences to Ben's family and friends.

As we all know the gun/knife crime in the UK now is shocking and seems to be ever increasing. Channel 4 have been showing numerous documentaries this week about this. I just have two main questions really:

1) Can this problem ever be solved/is there a solution or will it just get worse?

2) Following the murder of Ben there has been a massive campaign against this knife/gun crime and people with a huge banner saying "WHY BEN" have been parading down the street, it has also been well documented on the news and was a top story on Sky News. Now I understand this is serious and I said earlier my I mean no disrespect to Ben or his family but why has THIS case been so highlighted when there has been so many other deaths this year?
I watched on Channel 4 News a big headline about it then straight after a tiny little mention of a 28 year woman stabbed in South East London (not heard much about that one or not too much about the others either).
Is it fair that because of Ben's families' status he gets more headlines than any others??

I don't think so and it actually angers me a little.
LovelyL is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 03:36 PM #2
Shaun's Avatar
Shaun Shaun is offline
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106,245

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
RPDR UK 2: Tayce


Shaun Shaun is offline
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106,245

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
RPDR UK 2: Tayce


Default

Firstly - "Why Ben?" is an illogical question for them to ask. Why not Ben? That's what I ask.

It almost sounds as if it would have been OK if someone else had been stabbed to death, not 'Ben'.

I'm sure they don't mean that, though

And yeah, I think he's only given this much attention because his sister was in Eastenders.

My cousin (coincidentally called Ben as well) was stabbed to death a couple of years ago and barely anyone heard about it. Quite sad really.
Shaun is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 03:41 PM #3
LovelyL LovelyL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 833

Favourites (more):
BB13: Scott
BB12: Louise
LovelyL LovelyL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 833

Favourites (more):
BB13: Scott
BB12: Louise
Default

Exactly what I thought about "Why Ben", why all the other innocents??

It just comes across to me as though they're saying "Right now Ben has been killed it really is time to make a stand", which is unfair. Why not do this when the first victim died??
Also very sorry to hear about your cousin Shaun.
LovelyL is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 03:45 PM #4
Shaun's Avatar
Shaun Shaun is offline
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106,245

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
RPDR UK 2: Tayce


Shaun Shaun is offline
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106,245

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
RPDR UK 2: Tayce


Default

Hmm...I think that something has to directly affect you before you really take notice of the problem, with some people - which is sad, really.
Shaun is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 03:50 PM #5
Tom Tom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23,738

Favourites (more):
BB12: Anton
CBB7: Stephanie


Tom Tom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23,738

Favourites (more):
BB12: Anton
CBB7: Stephanie


Default

Its allover the news because

a) His sister was an actress and
b) It happened in London

There are stabbings all the time and last night or the night before they shown some statistics in the news showing how many are admitted to hospital and how many deaths there are per year, yet we hear nothing about most of them not even on regional news. I think the fact that in the newspapers, on TV and on teletext it says things along the lines of "Ben Kinsella, the brother of former Eastenders actress Brooke," says it all really.
Tom is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 03:59 PM #6
Tom Tom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23,738

Favourites (more):
BB12: Anton
CBB7: Stephanie


Tom Tom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23,738

Favourites (more):
BB12: Anton
CBB7: Stephanie


Default

Oh and another point- they always have stupid campaigns saying "stop knifecrime now" when someone has died. It doesn't mean it will actually do anything. A few hundred people walking down the street with a giant banner probably won't be groundbreaking. It might make the culprits feel a little guilty but its not going to put a stop to it. Its the bigger powers that have to do that.
Tom is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 04:01 PM #7
sexy_leigh sexy_leigh is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: south london
Posts: 439
sexy_leigh sexy_leigh is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: south london
Posts: 439
Default

there are so many teenagers that were stabbed this year and you never her them or if you do it will only be once or twice, this murder is getting this amount of attention because his sis was in eastenders and why is the banner saying why ben like it will be ok if it was someone elses son/brother/friend.
sexy_leigh is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 04:16 PM #8
LovelyL LovelyL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 833

Favourites (more):
BB13: Scott
BB12: Louise
LovelyL LovelyL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 833

Favourites (more):
BB13: Scott
BB12: Louise
Default

If I was a family member or a friend of any of the other victims I would be quite offended by the banner.
LovelyL is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 01:31 PM #9
katie_x's Avatar
katie_x katie_x is offline
Hmmmmm
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Herts
Posts: 329
katie_x katie_x is offline
Hmmmmm
katie_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Herts
Posts: 329
Default

is it so bad that it gets this much publicity? surely the more that knife/gun crime gets in the papers the more the government should pay attention and attempt to tackle the issues. But then looking at todays stats is there really anything anyone can do apart from the people who carry the weapons in the 1st place? theres only so much the gov can do before it gets slated for being to 'big brother'
katie_x is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 01:41 PM #10
Jake! Jake! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 2,512
Jake! Jake! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 2,512
Default

This problem needs to be solved DESPERATELY.

But the media don't help ata ll. It's such scandl with the news, they tell you what they want you to know, so they say teenagers are all bad bad bad, it doesn't help.
Jake! is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 02:12 PM #11
katie_x's Avatar
katie_x katie_x is offline
Hmmmmm
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Herts
Posts: 329
katie_x katie_x is offline
Hmmmmm
katie_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Herts
Posts: 329
Default

i think that image of teenagers was portayed long before all the press coverage of the violent crimes that have been printed recently. The papers have opened eyes of people that do not live in the areas that are effected and because of this i think the government have to do something more than just sit and watch. how can this be bad?
katie_x is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 02:18 PM #12
MarkWaldorf's Avatar
MarkWaldorf MarkWaldorf is offline
can't nobody hold us down
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 36,739

Favourites:
X Factor 2009: Joe McElderry


MarkWaldorf MarkWaldorf is offline
can't nobody hold us down
MarkWaldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 36,739

Favourites:
X Factor 2009: Joe McElderry


Default

I don't think it'll ever stop. You can campaign, you can cry, you can say its bad but it'll never stop someone carrying a knife/killing someone. There's been SO many deaths in the past few years that proves no one is listening, if anything, advertising knife crime to the extent has been is only opening up more people to it. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who commit these murders have got the idea of carrying a knife through the big campaigning happening. It sounds terrible but it could be true.
MarkWaldorf is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 02:24 PM #13
Lauren's Avatar
Lauren Lauren is offline
van der Woodsen
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Happyland
Posts: 20,107


Lauren Lauren is offline
van der Woodsen
Lauren's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Happyland
Posts: 20,107


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Markus
I don't think it'll ever stop. You can campaign, you can cry, you can say its bad but it'll never stop someone carrying a knife/killing someone. There's been SO many deaths in the past few years that proves no one is listening, if anything, advertising knife crime to the extent has been is only opening up more people to it. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who commit these murders have got the idea of carrying a knife through the big campaigning happening. It sounds terrible but it could be true.
I do agree.

The very desire to carry a knife is purely for infamy and a sense of "power". To know that knife crime is the new moral panic, and spread across the media nationwide gives it more of a taboo desire and young people are even more likely to adopt the threatening methods employed by the knife crime they hear about in the media.
Lauren is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 02:29 PM #14
MarkWaldorf's Avatar
MarkWaldorf MarkWaldorf is offline
can't nobody hold us down
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 36,739

Favourites:
X Factor 2009: Joe McElderry


MarkWaldorf MarkWaldorf is offline
can't nobody hold us down
MarkWaldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 36,739

Favourites:
X Factor 2009: Joe McElderry


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Lauren
Quote:
Originally posted by Markus
I don't think it'll ever stop. You can campaign, you can cry, you can say its bad but it'll never stop someone carrying a knife/killing someone. There's been SO many deaths in the past few years that proves no one is listening, if anything, advertising knife crime to the extent has been is only opening up more people to it. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who commit these murders have got the idea of carrying a knife through the big campaigning happening. It sounds terrible but it could be true.
I do agree.

The very desire to carry a knife is purely for infamy and a sense of "power". To know that knife crime is the new moral panic, and spread across the media nationwide gives it more of a taboo desire and young people are even more likely to adopt the threatening methods employed by the knife crime they hear about in the media.
Exactly.
I've seen people bring knifes into school - even the classroom. I even saw them stick it to someones back and threaten them. Obviously to them it was a joke, but to the victim it certainly wasn't.
They've been used in fights as well. Someone in a history class in my year was stabbed during a fight. Its as you said, for the 'power' and feeling of being in control. Its like a toy.
MarkWaldorf is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 06:07 PM #15
MarkWaldorf's Avatar
MarkWaldorf MarkWaldorf is offline
can't nobody hold us down
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 36,739

Favourites:
X Factor 2009: Joe McElderry


MarkWaldorf MarkWaldorf is offline
can't nobody hold us down
MarkWaldorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 36,739

Favourites:
X Factor 2009: Joe McElderry


Default

.....and another teenager bites the dust.

Quote:
A 16-year-old boy called out for his mother as he lay dying after being stabbed and beaten in south London.

Shakilus Townsend, from Deptford, south-east London, was beaten with a baseball bat and repeatedly stabbed in Beulah Crescent, Thornton Heath.

Residents dragged him into the communal doorway of their building and tried to stem the flow of blood with bath towels after Thursday afternoon's attack.

But the teenager died in hospital shortly after midnight.

He is the 18th teenager to be shot or stabbed to death in London this year.

Police described the incident as a "planned and targeted attack" by a group of four youths wearing hooded tops and bandanas.

No suspects have yet been arrested.

People living close to the scene described how they tried desperately to save Shakilus.

Dee Bamina, 35, tried to stem the bleeding from a wound to his chest.

"I think a group of boys must have been after the boy," she said.

"All I heard was them saying 'get him from the other side'."

Ms Bamina saw a gang of four or five youths, aged 15 to 19, with scarves covering their faces. One had a baseball bat. A girl was also with them, she said.

She said the boy was saying, "I don't want to die" and "where's my mum, I want my mum".

An air ambulance was scrambled, but Shakilus was eventually taken to hospital by road after being treated at the scene.

Det Ch Insp Cliff Lyons said: "This is another senseless incident in which a young life has been taken away by a knife.

"Given that this happened outside a block of flats in broad daylight, I am certain there are people who will have witnessed this murder."

Wound on chest

Neighbour Richard Higgins, 17, said he saw the weapon that was used.

"It was a big kitchen knife, maybe 18in," he said.

"He had stab wounds on his stomach and one big long wound on his chest."

Tributes for Shakilus appeared on the online memorial site Gone Too Soon.

A contributor Chanel wrote: "Why oh why... it honestly brings tears to my eyes to read stories like this."

A tribute from Fiona said: "Such a waste.. May you rest in peace, xxx."

Spate of stabbings

Shakilus was attacked four days after 16-year-old Ben Kinsella was knifed to death in Islington, north London. Three teenagers were appearing in court on Friday charged with his murder.

Later the same day, the bodies of French students Laurent Bonomo and Gabriel Ferez, both 23, were found riddled with knife wounds after a flat fire in New Cross, south east London.

Tunisian national Hamouda Bessaad, 34, was stabbed to death on Old Kent Road, south-east London, on Monday, while Dee Willis, 28, died after a knife attack in Peckham a day later.

Earlier this week Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair and Mayor Boris Johnson pledged to continue the struggle to persuade youngsters to stop carrying weapons.
MarkWaldorf is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 06:15 PM #16
*mazedsalv** *mazedsalv** is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 27,956

Favourites (more):
BB19: Lewis F
CBB22: Nick Leeson


*mazedsalv** *mazedsalv** is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 27,956

Favourites (more):
BB19: Lewis F
CBB22: Nick Leeson


Default

Anyone who has facebook, add the group that is about him to stop gun crime.
*mazedsalv** is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 06:27 PM #17
Tom Tom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23,738

Favourites (more):
BB12: Anton
CBB7: Stephanie


Tom Tom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23,738

Favourites (more):
BB12: Anton
CBB7: Stephanie


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Lauren
Quote:
Originally posted by Markus
I don't think it'll ever stop. You can campaign, you can cry, you can say its bad but it'll never stop someone carrying a knife/killing someone. There's been SO many deaths in the past few years that proves no one is listening, if anything, advertising knife crime to the extent has been is only opening up more people to it. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who commit these murders have got the idea of carrying a knife through the big campaigning happening. It sounds terrible but it could be true.
I do agree.

The very desire to carry a knife is purely for infamy and a sense of "power". To know that knife crime is the new moral panic, and spread across the media nationwide gives it more of a taboo desire and young people are even more likely to adopt the threatening methods employed by the knife crime they hear about in the media.
Just out of interest, would it make you a bad person and be as bad as 'them' to carry a knife for self defence?
Tom is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 08:02 PM #18
LovelyL LovelyL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 833

Favourites (more):
BB13: Scott
BB12: Louise
LovelyL LovelyL is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 833

Favourites (more):
BB13: Scott
BB12: Louise
Default

So so so so so sad. Every single week, in fact every couple of weeks. I hope there is as big a coverage of this as there is of the Ben Kinsella case
LovelyL is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 07:53 PM #19
katie_x's Avatar
katie_x katie_x is offline
Hmmmmm
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Herts
Posts: 329
katie_x katie_x is offline
Hmmmmm
katie_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Herts
Posts: 329
Default

its gonna happen forever, i dont think there is anything anyone can really do to stop it?
katie_x is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 07:56 PM #20
Shaun's Avatar
Shaun Shaun is offline
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106,245

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
RPDR UK 2: Tayce


Shaun Shaun is offline
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 106,245

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
RPDR UK 2: Tayce


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom
Quote:
Originally posted by Lauren
Quote:
Originally posted by Markus
I don't think it'll ever stop. You can campaign, you can cry, you can say its bad but it'll never stop someone carrying a knife/killing someone. There's been SO many deaths in the past few years that proves no one is listening, if anything, advertising knife crime to the extent has been is only opening up more people to it. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who commit these murders have got the idea of carrying a knife through the big campaigning happening. It sounds terrible but it could be true.
I do agree.

The very desire to carry a knife is purely for infamy and a sense of "power". To know that knife crime is the new moral panic, and spread across the media nationwide gives it more of a taboo desire and young people are even more likely to adopt the threatening methods employed by the knife crime they hear about in the media.
Just out of interest, would it make you a bad person and be as bad as 'them' to carry a knife for self defence?
IMO, yes. Nobody carries a knife without the intent to use it at some point - whether they're the attacker or 'defender' they're just as bad.
Shaun is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:36 PM #21
Slezer Slezer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,099
Slezer Slezer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,099
Default

It seems wrong that the two biggest headlines of this year have been of the murder of a Harry Potter actor and the brother of an actress. Then again that's the way the world works.

Kids are being stabbed to death all the time now it's disgusting. The worst part about it is a lot of the teens killed are trying to break up a fight or stick up for somebody.
Slezer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 10:46 PM #22
JOSHUAH!'s Avatar
JOSHUAH! JOSHUAH! is offline
:')
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,155

Favourites:
X Factor 2009: Stacey Solomon
Strictly 2009: Jade & Ian


JOSHUAH! JOSHUAH! is offline
:')
JOSHUAH!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,155

Favourites:
X Factor 2009: Stacey Solomon
Strictly 2009: Jade & Ian


Default

This is a terrible thing to be happening. Its like 19 teenagers have been stabbed to death so far this year. Its just discusting. Another thing is the government, they're just letting this happen. They are all just scared! We need a deterrant. Police shouldn't be sitting behind a desk writing up paperwork. They should be out looking for suspicious people and should search them.

If somebody is murdered and they find the killers, I say bring back the death penalty. If there is concrete evidence that this person has killed somebody, they need to be stopped. Sending them to jail will also do nothing. Prisoners think of it as a holiday now, they have Sky TV, pool tables etc. If people are sent to prison they should be made to work and not be given luxuries that some of us don't have, I just find it apalling. People get like 4 years for rape. Judges need training! Life should be given for rape and murder, and it should mean life.

No rebellious teenager is scared of the police or the goverment, and that needs to change. I know some people on here will be totally against the death penalty, but theres no other way this is going to stop without a massive and somewhat terrible deterrant. Posters of a man or woman with a lost finger isn't going to effect any teenager.

I feel really strongly about this current crisis because we need a government who will put strict rules in force. Non of these stupid rules which many teenager won't even know of.
JOSHUAH! is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 17-07-2008, 08:51 PM #23
max max is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: East Yorkshire.
Posts: 1,049
max max is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: East Yorkshire.
Posts: 1,049
Default

This problems not going to go away.They need to act and act fast otherwise there's going to be more shootings and stabbings.I agree with what brooke kinsella said and bring back national service.Teach these criminals some discipline
and self respect because that's half the problem they have no goals no ambition so they have no reason to respect the law.Or each other.
max is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
ben, crime, gun or knife, kinsella

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 

About Us ThisisBigBrother.com

"Big Brother and UK Television Forum. Est. 2001"

 

© 2023
no new posts