[Deus Ex Machina]

She-Devil and I are debating this at the moment.
So, is Nadia a man, or a woman?

Here are two points to get you started:
1. If you put a lemon into orange peel, does it suddenly become an orange?
2. If I decided that I wanted to be a God, would you all treat me like one?

[She Devil]

Nadia is most definately all woman.

[guesto]

1. Nadia was an orange in a lemon peel when she was born. Now she's got an orange peel on. If you get me.

[Deus Ex Machina]

Apart from that small matter of a 'Y' chromosome in every cell in his body!

A 'man' is a male adult human. A 'woman' is a female adult human.

No matter how hard he tries, Nadia cannot change the laws of nature.

[Deus Ex Machina]

Originally posted by guesto
1. Nadia was an orange in a lemon peel when she was born. Now she's got an orange peel on. If you get me.

So she was psychologically ill.
That doesn't exactly change her genetic make-up, does it?

[Requiem]

Nadia is either a he or an it but definatley not a she. I thought it was unfair to put 7 men in the house and only 5 women in at the beginning, and it was even more unfair the way none of the people in the house with him knows that he is really a he. Imagine if Victor sh*gged him then found out when he got out that it was really a man. Actually that would be quite funny.

[Requiem]

Nadia is a man without a d*ck, Thats all thats changed.

[Deus Ex Machina]

Originally posted by Requiem
Imagine if Victor sh*gged him then found out when he got out that it was really a man.

I've been thinking about that - do you think Victor could sue for defamation of character if that happened?

[Deus Ex Machina]

Originally posted by Requiem
Nadia is either a he or an it but definatley not a she.

Legally, Nadia is an 'it', or, more specifically, 'undefinable'.

[guesto]

[
So she was psychologically ill.
That doesn't exactly change her genetic make-up, does it?

No, you're right - it doesn't. But try looking at it beyond genetic make-up. I believe that there is something within all of us that makes us who we are - that includes our gender. A kind of 'soul' I guess. Trans-gender people feel that they are born in the wrong body - so Nadia would have felt that there was something wrong from an early age - and - when she was old enough to figure it out - that she was a 'woman' trapped in a man's body. That's as I understand it.

[Kore]

yeh, but omg she is damn boring, you can say that rorlforlf

[bananarama]

Although I am not keen on Nadia (Mainly due to her nicotine tantrums). I do feel for her and respect the position she is in to refer to her as her.

With the male/female predicament she has been in I suspect she has been to hell and back.

Ultimately though I don't believe surgical intervention can change what actually is. Genetically Nadia is still a male. Emotionally she is a women. The sugeons have only made her look more like how she feels she is.

It's a heart breaking condition to be born with. In spite of my insults and scathing comments about her I would wish her all the happiness she can find.......

[Sticks]

My understanding was that in law Nardia would be regarded as a male, but someone has said that there has been a change in the law. Any clues on that technicality ?

[Deus Ex Machina]

Yeah, I said so up there ^^

Originally posted by Deus Ex Machina
Legally, Nadia is an 'it', or, more specifically, 'undefinable'.

[Julia L]

Nadia is a woman. And calling her "it" is a very harsh, cruel word.

[Kore]

yup, sort of, but im not voting nadia to win out of sympathy.
shes has a horrible personality

[golden~rose]

sounds like quite a few of you here are descriminating against transexuals (and that infuriates me) how do i know that the few of you may even be racist??

anyways nadia is a women, if shes finished the whole converting treatment, then she is 100% women!!

[Amy]

Nadia can be what ever she wants to be just like you and I can do whatever we want to do! I see Nadia as a woman and she was obviously not happy so it's up to her to change the way she is for her happiness.

[LovesTania]

Nadia is a half. She is still a man deep inside herself, and does probly fancy women a bit still, but the fact remains she feels she would rather be wih a man than a girl. Therefore her new appearance and her personality make up half a sex. So there are 5 girls and 5 boys and one half.

[Deus Ex Machina]

SCIENCE!
GENETICS!
MALE!

[p2pnut]

Originally posted by Deus Ex Machina
SCIENCE!
GENETICS!
MALE!

Psuedo Science!
Misunderstood Genetics!

People who have lived with an unclearly defined gender allocation have more than enough problems to deal with, without suffering the insults of those whose prejudice is matched only by their ignorance of science.

I can assure Deus Ex Machina that the allocation of x/y genes is nowhere near as clearly defined as he/she appears to think.

Apart from congenital variations at birth (manifested by an hemaphroditic mix of sexual characteristics) there are many recorded instances of gender transformation in nature. This is not simply a human trait, but is to be found in most species.

The reasons for this phenomena are many and varied. Among others they may be caused by temperature dependent gender allocation in some species, medication dependent shifts in humans and transformation of sex allocating chromosones due to pollution factors.

Given the true facts (available to anyone in possesion of an internet connection and an open, inquiring mind) I am surprised to see the level of bias and ignorance displayed in these and other fora.

I suspect that those who voice the strongest negative views are less doubtful about Nadia's sexual status and more confused by their own sexual orientation. For instance, latent homosexuality (especially in men and boys) is frequently manifested as rampant homophobia by those who have yet to come to terms with the range of possibilities inherent in their sexual makeup.

So, come on you confused young detractors - step out of that claustrophobic closet and embrace your own homosexual potential ......... you never know, it might make a man of you.

[LEE]

Originally posted by guesto
1. Nadia was an orange in a lemon peel when she was born. Now she's got an orange peel on. If you get me.

Absolutely guesto, and well said.

I find it deeply saddening that there are so many prejudiced people around.

[BB6 housemate]

If a cow is born in a stable does it make it a horse

[shellspeare]

nadias female because she has chosen to be female, its a free country, only small minded people dont accept this, and they should. whats it to them anyway what gender she has chosen to be, the woman has had enough to put up with already, give her a break!
nature can mess up, siemese twins etc...... nadia was a female born into the wrong body..... no bigy!

[p2pnut]

Originally posted by BB6 housemate
If a cow is born in a stable does it make it a horse

Oh dear! One tries so hard to point these young people towards the true facts - but obviously ignorance is bliss for those who choose not to accept reality.

By the way, all you lil guys who still can't get your heads around the basics of genetics, what scientific source are you basing your prejudice on ....... The Sun?

I prefer to base my information on my experience and knowledge, gained from 30 years working with people who experience mental health problems ....... including some who have had to address their own gender re-allocation.

For those of you who still suffer from doubts and prejudice, I can only refer you to the last two paragraphs of my previous post (above).