[Brekkie]

Before we get started. anyone who thinks the show can survive by just going "back to basics" and sticking with the original 10 year old format can get back in their bubble. This thread is for people who realise Big Brother needs to change if it's got any chance of surviving.

OK, next we need to send anyone who think BB needs something completely new and original down to Endemol HQ to sell the producers their ideas. We'd all love a completely new twist (which works), but I'd be shocked if the producers actually came up with something completely original - mainly because I'd imagine by now most ideas have been touched upon by some reality show or another. It's also quite risky - yes, great if it works like "Evil" did back in BB5, but probably the final nail in the coffin if it doesn't.


Therefore IMO it's time to evolve the format with something that we know does work, and something that we've touched upon before in BBUK, but never explored fully. If the show fully embraced either format it really would offer something completely new to the series - yet still unquestionably remain Big Brother.

Now, I know both formats have their doubters, so this is your queue to leave too - or perhaps I should have some faith in my abilities to win you over. The key thing with both formats is for it to work we must embrace it fully - from start to finish, and throughout every aspect of the show.


Head of House
Firstly, think Brazil, not BBUSA. Their variation of the HoH format has made their series arguably the most successful BB in the world. It gets a ridiculous share of viewers (something like 80% at times) and for one final got over 75m votes - figures even American Idol could only dream about.

The key thing is their tweaks to the format keep the public vote, and even to an extent the traditional nominations process. However, this doesn't mean that their Head of House is HoH in name only - they are almost as influential as their US counterparts.

Basically the week pans out like this:

• HoH Challenge: The housemates compete to become HoH, with the HoH immune from eviction and getting their own private room for the week, plus other perks.
• Nominations: The HoH chooses the first nominee, with the other HMs voting once each for the second nominee - and the HoH breaking any tie. The two nominees then face the public vote to determine who is evicted - and as it's always a head to head vote, we can put the vote to save argument to bed as it makes no difference here - to save one, you evict the other. Simple. (Also having HMs make just one nomination each should hopefully see an end to the ridiculous nominations shows where half of them aren't even shown!)
• Veto: This area could be used from the start or saved as a twist for future years. Basically their equivalent of the Veto sees it's winner award immunity to one HM, but personally I'd keep it as in the US, allowing the Veto winner to save a nominee and forcing the HoH to name a replacement. And with the ability to save the nominee chosen by the HMs, this adds the extra twist of the HoH being able to decide both nominees should the Veto be used.
• This process continues throughout the series. At the final 4 stage the HoH chooses both nominees, and then when three remain it can either be down to the public to decide the winner or we can have one final round of HoH, with the HoH through to the final and the other two HMs up for eviction, leaving just 2 in the final.
• There are also regular weekly challenges for food and occasional luxury challenges.

I think if we fully embraced that format and it was presented as an all new Big Brother it really could work - but the producers have to be 100% behind it. If they start trying to make compromises to appease those who think we should stick with the original format it would fall apart and ultimately in an attempt to please all they'd end up pleasing no-one.


The second format is something we've seen before a couple of times and something which has been used at some point in most series around the world:

Heaven and Hell
Well, I'm calling it Heaven and Hell as that's what's most familiar in most viewers minds - but really I'm thinking Big Brother: The Battle.

Basically it's the Rich/Poor divide - but it dominates the series from the start, not just a couple of weeks in the middle, and is taken to extremes - so the rich side really is luxurious with additions such as a gym and sauna to make it even more desirable, while the poor side really is hell! Outdoor showers, kitchen and toilet, very basic accommodation - basically somewhere nobody would want to live.

The key areas though is the challenges - and for it to work we really need a new separate challenge arena to accommodate challenges that just couldn't take place in the garden.

There are many variations of the Battle format, but essentially the key components are:

• Weekly Battle: The two sides go head to head to determine who lives where. Some weeks these would be team challenges, other weeks who lived where could be decided individually
• Individual Battles: Each week one HM from each side should face off for a place in the rich house, with the loser living in the poor house. This also means that if the main battle is team orientated, these challenges enable the teams to be mixed up a bit
• Nominations: Again many ways of adapting the process and personally I liked what we did in BB9 with the "housemates from hell" having to earn the right to nominate. Other variations see only HMs from Hell eligible to be nominated, or both sides of the house nominating independently, with one HM from each side nominated for eviction.
• Additional challenges should be more about luxuries than rewards, but obviously luxuries for the poor side would be much more basic than for the rich side. Personally I think with food the rich side should basically get a full budget while the poor side get basic supplies, but you could have challenges where the Poor Side can win a take away or something.

The divide does split the audience just like it splits the housemates. Some people love it, others hate it. Some people think 4 weeks is too long, others think it's not long enough. My main change here would be having it form the basis of the whole series, though in the last week or two the HMs would probably come together as one team.

There are several variations of the format which could be used - I'd be happy enough if they used the BB9 combination of HoH and Heaven and Hell as the starting point and developed it into a format which could sustain the whole series. The key thing though is the challenges - and that's why a separate challenge arena is required so big challenges can be set up - and it's them more than the format itself which would be the selling point of the all new BB10 and would set the series apart from previous series. I think really now the show has exhausted most variations of the Weekly Task - time for a new approach.


So those are the basics of two variations of the format proven to work around the world, and I'd be happy with either. I was leaning towards the "Big Brother: The Battle" idea as I think that's more of a natural progression from the original format, but for that reason to I'm now slightly favouring going completely new with the HoH format. For too many years the show has just relied on the faithful viewer tuning in, and for too many years they've been turning off. It's time for BB to make some noise again - and a complete relaunch really would do that.


So which do you prefer - HoH or Heaven and Hell? Vote now.

[Spike]

HOH
I have said for a few years now thats the way Big Brother needs to go to have any chance of surviving.I also think that idea with discussion of nominations allowed could work brilliantly and encourage game playing a lot which I would personally love to see

[Captain.Remy]

Both. Both are brilliant ideas and both are entertaining.
I don't know how many foreign BB series I watched but a lot of my fave ones have either one of this format.

HoH implies more strategy and gameplaying, something the UK public hates with a passion (the most hates housemates are generally the gameplayers)
Heaven and Hell will never be back in UK, it's been done 3 times (also Servants and Masters in CBB5). The German dominate this format because 5 out of their 9 series is a battle (2 sides in BB4, BB8 and BB9, 3 sides in BB5 and BB6)

I think the HoH a la BB UK is the most popular one over there, knowing how the public reacted to it. The US, Brazilian and co ones will never work out.

[Tom]

After this series its time to let go of heaven and hell concept as we know it I think so I'd go for Head of House, but I'd adapt yours to be like:

- HOH decided by endurance challenge
- The HOH nominates in front of everyone for the one person to definitely face eviction
- The rest of the housemates nominate but cannot nominate the HOH or the one facing eviction (obviously)
- The two with the most votes go up against the HOH's choice meaning a minimum of three each week which makes evictions less predictable

I'd also add personal banks which housemates are rewarded for secret missions, tasks etc (maximum of say Ł50,000 can be earned) and this fund is deducted from for rule breakings, cost of equipment if they jump in the pool with the mic on etc .... it starts at zero. The prize money should also start at zero which they should earn through tasks, a maximum of Ł500,000-Ł1,000,000. Then add incentives for second and third place (e.g. Ł50,000 and Ł10,000) like what they do in America with second place. The shopping budget should be decided by behaviour. If 3 people are sentenced (explained in a minute) in any one week then its a basic budget.

Earlier I said about the heaven and hell concept as we know it being scrapped. Well I think that if a housemate breaks the rules, they should be 'sentenced' by Big Brother and live in the Big Brother prison for a week. Its the BB7 prison task, the jail and the heaven/hell thing all rolled into one. It would roughly be the same size as the BB7 prison and the main rooms would be seperated from eachother, but the gardens would be seperated by bars so they can still see out. They'd be given hard beds to sleep on, bad clothes to wear, basic showers etc, limited time outside and eating in the diary room a la Vanessa BB6.

Its definitely time for a change. They don't even have to overhaul the format, they just need to make some big tweaks.

[Brekkie]

It's the discussing nominations which would be the main stumbling block IMO of selling the series, especially having made an issue out of it for so long.

I'm not too bothered either way - I think the best way to get around it would be to keep the Nominations Pod so allow HMs to discuss nominations in there (when they want, not when BB decides to open it!), but keep it banned elsewhere in the house.


Prize money - it should really be raised to Ł250,000 IMO - that's a good sizeable chunk and it doesn't really need to be much higher.

[Captain.Remy]

I don't want a huge change in the format, just a few things to re adapt:

-More secret missions a la BB6. In the French series, the housemates had 3/4 missions/week.
-Let the housemates doing the shopping in the BB Supermarket. It's hilarious !
-Keep the nominations pod like Brekkie mentioned. It's a shame they didn't use it much in BB9.
-Keep the jail, it was pure entertainment last year.
-Introduce the points system in nominations: more suspense and less predictable. It worked out so well in other countries.
-Bring back Sunday tasks in a new way: in Germany they call them 'challenges'. A task per person. If the housemates wins, there is an individual reward (phone call) or for the group.
-Extend the weekly shopping task to 3 days (Tuesday to Thursday)
-Reducing the prize fund like they did in BB5. The housemates won't be lazy that much and will get more interested in the prize.
-Keep the HoH like in BB9.

[Brekkie]

I'm not a huge fan of the points system - I think you either nominate someone or you don't, and giving them the option of effectively only half nominating someone is too much of a get out IMO.

That said though if a bit more strategy is bought into it it's a good thing - i.e. rather than each HM awarding 1 or 2 points, they have 3 points to use how they wish (so nominate 1 for 3 points, 3 for 1 point each or 2 for 2/1 pts.) Also incorporating a twist where they can steal points off each other would make things more interesting too.


Whether it's HoH, Heaven and Hell or pretty much the original format though, I think we can all agree they need a good solid structure to the tasks. BB4, 5 & 6 had it about right, with the weekly Saturday challenge and then the Weekly Task running at least three days.

The show needs a solid structure - leaving the HMs to their own devices for too long usually ends up in tears. I've always said the race row in CBB5 was partly caused by firstly a lack of routine nominations, meaning the HMs weren't given the opportunity to vent their frustrations through the nomination process - and secondly a lack of tasks, meaning the HMs had too much time to bitch.

[Fat.Rat]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
I don't want a huge change in the format, just a few things to re adapt:

-More secret missions a la BB6. In the French series, the housemates had 3/4 missions/week.
-Let the housemates doing the shopping in the BB Supermarket. It's hilarious !
-Keep the nominations pod like Brekkie mentioned. It's a shame they didn't use it much in BB9.
-Keep the jail, it was pure entertainment last year.
-Introduce the points system in nominations: more suspense and less predictable. It worked out so well in other countries.
-Bring back Sunday tasks in a new way: in Germany they call them 'challenges'. A task per person. If the housemates wins, there is an individual reward (phone call) or for the group.
-Extend the weekly shopping task to 3 days (Tuesday to Thursday)
-Reducing the prize fund like they did in BB5. The housemates won't be lazy that much and will get more interested in the prize.
-Keep the HoH like in BB9.

if only they would do that, if they did we would have a fantastic bb!!!

[Brekkie]

Though with Heaven and Hell my intention would be that "Hell" is one large jail - and the producers always have the ability to punish HMs by sending them to hell, or keeping them there for a couple of weeks.

I think the Jail will become a staple of BB now regardless of what happens in the summer. I like the idea of Big Brother setting bail for a HM to be released - so effectively not only is the HM punished for their crime, the whole house has to give up something too. (i.e. the tokens from BB9).

[Callum]

Head of House, love that idea, however hate the Heaven and Hell idea.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Brekkie
I'm not a huge fan of the points system - I think you either nominate someone or you don't, and giving them the option of effectively only half nominating someone is too much of a get out IMO.

That said though if a bit more strategy is bought into it it's a good thing - i.e. rather than each HM awarding 1 or 2 points, they have 3 points to use how they wish (so nominate 1 for 3 points, 3 for 1 point each or 2 for 2/1 pts.) Also incorporating a twist where they can steal points off each other would make things more interesting too.

But considering how the public reacted to that system, the producers should think about it because it worked very well.
I also think we would know a bit better which housemate is clearly hated or not. Also it adds a bit of spice, it is way more interesting to watch.

[Fat.Rat]

what they should do is give the prize fund to a housemate on launch night, then if that person gets evicted, they have to give to the person they want to give it to, and so on. just think of all the great stuff we would have then, we would see the other hm sucking up to who ever had it!!!

[Sam1994]

Originally posted by Fat.Rat.Sneez
what they should do is give the prize fund to a housemate on launch night, then if that person gets evicted, they have to give to the person they want to give it to, and so on. just think of all the great stuff we would have then, we would see the other hm sucking up to who ever had it!!!

Wouldn't that almost ensure the eviction of the person with the prize fund in the first week?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy

-Let the housemates doing the shopping in the BB Supermarket. It's hilarious

Just let them go to Tesco themselves when its shut, its right behind the house

Seriously though if they did a BB supermarket they'd probably have to move to a bigger house, its not really big enough atm unless they put it outside where the car park is or blind folded them and took them into another studio.

I like the idea of bringing the tasks back, although rather than being on at weekends I think they should be on a Wednesday night live on C4 in an extended show presented by Davina.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Tom

Just let them go to Tesco themselves when its shut, its right behind the house

Seriously though if they did a BB supermarket they'd probably have to move to a bigger house, its not really big enough atm unless they put it outside where the car park is or blind folded them and took them into another studio.

I like the idea of bringing the tasks back, although rather than being on at weekends I think they should be on a Wednesday night live on C4 in an extended show presented by Davina.

The BB Supermarket wouldn't be too big, but not too small. I don't think they should make a bigger house, they need to make a good design.
It's funny because all the housemates are going crazy because 'I want pastas ! Shut up biatch I want rice' etc
It also makes drama, I do remember a girl in French BB crying because she didn't have her chocolate.

[Fat.Rat]

Originally posted by Sam1994

Wouldn't that almost ensure the eviction of the person with the prize fund in the first week?

possibly, but if that hm dont get evicted they keep hold of it untill they do and if they never get evicted, they would the winner anyway, so they keep it, i just think its a fantasic launch night twist!!!

[Brekkie]

The trouble with the systems where the evictees pass on the prize to someone else is that ultimately it all goes to the winner anyway.

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
But considering how the public reacted to that system, the producers should think about it because it worked very well.
I also think we would know a bit better which housemate is clearly hated or not. Also it adds a bit of spice, it is way more interesting to watch.

Only if they let us actually see the nominations. But all we'd get is Marcus saying "Brekkie nominated Captain for 1 point and Remy for 2 points" and we'd never know why!


Stepping back a bit there are three main issues which need fixing with the production of the actual shows at the moment.

Firstly - it's nominations. There is no excuse not to show them all - they managed fine for the first four years in a 30-minute show, so no reason they can't squeeze them all in to an hour-long show now.

Secondly - Marcus Bentley. FFS just shut up - only speak when required, otherwise let the pictures tell the story.

And thirdly, the eviction shows. Make them special again - not highlights with an eviction tagged on the end. Ideally now they'd be in one 90-minute show from 9pm, but if the HoH or Battle format were introduced I wouldn't mind an hour-long eviction show at 9pm (including the eviction and interview), and then a second live show to include the HoH challenge or Heaven/Hell battle.

[Sam1994]

Originally posted by Brekkie
Firstly - it's nominations. There is no excuse not to show them all - they managed fine for the first four years in a 30-minute show, so no reason they can't squeeze them all in to an hour-long show now.

They should bring back Nominations Uncut.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Brekkie

Only if they let us actually see the nominations. But all we'd get is Marcus saying "Brekkie nominated Captain for 1 point and Remy for 2 points" and we'd never know why!

But he also does that with the current system, so it doesn't change anything. I wish they tried for a week and they'll see.

[Brekkie]

I'm not a fan of this "try it for a week" attitude and think that's half the problem. Big Brother has to have absolute faith in what it's doing as otherwise the viewers won't care, and things should be tried out in test runs, not during the series itself.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Brekkie
I'm not a fan of this "try it for a week" attitude and think that's half the problem. Big Brother has to have absolute faith in what it's doing as otherwise the viewers won't care, and things should be tried out in test runs, not during the series itself.

What I am saying is to try it like a twist. In the test runs you don't get the reaction from the public and that's the major problem.

[Stu]

Originally posted by Brekkie
Before we get started. anyone who thinks the show can survive by just going "back to basics" and sticking with the original 10 year old format can get back in their bubble.

Amen.

I hate when people offer up going back to the land of 2001 as a viable solution to save a show whos main problem has come from stagnation in the first place.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Brekkie
I'm not a fan of this "try it for a week" attitude and think that's half the problem. Big Brother has to have absolute faith in what it's doing as otherwise the viewers won't care, and things should be tried out in test runs, not during the series itself.

They shouldn't be scared of testing things out in Celebrity Big Brother either, even if its just for a week in that series, then if it gets a positive response its somehow adapted into the summer series. And if people don't like it then go back to the drawing board.

They're just too scared to take risks, although I'll make a prediction that there will be significant tweaks for BB10. If they're going to go for a game play angle then the building blocks are in place with the HOH and the nominations pod, its just a case of adapting them. I think the public are ready for a new era of BB, although it should still feel like the same show but still fresh at the same time. That means keeping vote to evict, keeping Davina, theme tune etc not an overhaul on the scale of BB Aus.

[Amaru]

I dont mind Heaven v Hell, but coming from the US HoH just bothers me....i know you guys do it differently with regular nominations and just the HoH is safe but i fear over time it would get more and more power given to the HoH until it was almost like US BB, which would be the WORST possible thing.

You guys in the UK dont know how good you have it.....REALLY!!! Sure its not perfect, but its still dang close after 9 years. You dont know what someone like me would give to have our own version of BB to be even half as good as yours. HoH just ruins everything....thats why my fav season of USBB is BB1, when we did things like you guys do.

[MrGaryy]

Just wanna pick up on a couple of things people have said

*I agree with whoever said about each housemate having their own chunk of the prize fund, which can be passed on to others if they were evicted. I realise that it all ultimately goes to the winner but it would evoke a competitive side in the housemates and make them more ambitious to win.

*I think Heaven and Hell just depresses the viewers too much. It was fascinating the frist time, when it was the first real big twist BB had ever done, but in BB9, it just made for depressing viewing. It was no longer interesting seeing the Hell housemates suffer, and especially due to the tasks being so short these days, they usually had nothing to do so made for pretty boring watching too.

*They should definitely re-introduce secret missions as a regular thing. But only for individual housemates, not groups. And the prize should only be a small but nice reward, like a phonecall to home, an extra nomination, a chance to view a housemate's diary room entry, ect. No ridiculous rewards like immunity from a series of evictions, nothing that will effect the whole series.

*The tasks need to be longer and stricter. The days like in BB4 where Fed failed the whole task because he slipped up once are a long, distant memory. No more 3 chances. They should also have a clear theme, like in BB6 e.g Pirates, Hospital, Dog Trainers, ect. No more "French" task or "Seven Deadly Sins" themes. Also more endurance taks, but proper ones that will test the housemates, not like The Sardines task in BB8. The Swimming Task in BB8, is the perfect example of a good one, something that really tested them. Or the Second HoH competition in BB9 where they had to dress as monkeys and hold on to vines.


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