[LeonM]

(Sorry if this has already been posted)

I think it should be because, someone who is living a long life of pain and misery should be allowed to die, they may not be able to do it themselves though so someone should help them. I can see why they aren't allowing it but its that persons life, their choice.

[andyman]

I don't know but it should always be a court matter

[30stone]

They should give them a button to press to turn off the the machines they are hooked up to if asked for it or somthing...


though some people say things way to quickly so im unsure.

[AngRemembered]

Simple answer no.
There is ALWAYS something and someone to live for, and I keep reminding myself of that each and every day I wake up in excrusiating pain.

I now have a cold, which could mean a death sentance in itself, but it sure makes those aches and pains feel much worse.
However no matter how bad I feel, I'd never wish to stop being able to share a conscious moment with my family, and would sorely miss the chance to read and reply to my dear friends here.
Being in this pain is horrible but its a great deal better than being dead and no good to anyone.

[Spike]

Yes definatly!
The main reason it isn't legal at the moment because of religion but as religion starts to decrease it will become legal.

[Chri$]

Yes 100%

My Uncle was taken in to Hospital one year ago on Christmas Day and since has been lying in a Bed in Hospital and a Care Home. Now he can't Eat or Talk or Walk and My auntie is very old and she visits him everyday and it is sad because she is sorta wasting her life.

I think it should be Legal because my uncle is in pain and there is nothing anyone can do.

[Tom]

Its been done before but its always good to have new threads for a clean debate (new members, new opinions etc)

The irony is a lot of people just want the choice- it doesn't mean they'll actually go through with it. In some countries where they have sent out the right things for someone to end their own lives, they haven't gone through with it.

If suicide is legal them imo so should assisted suicide. But I think it should be heavily regulated e.g. the patient should have to confirm it to a doctor who should then get a second opinion, fill in a load of forms then carry it out in front of witnesses etc. But if this is impossible then its hard to say if the patient would want that or not which leaves for grey areas ...

If its not regulated then it could be abused but I doubt a lot of the time they would actually do it because when push comes to shove its not as easier to do things as in theory ...

[Stu]

Originally posted by Angiebabe
Being in this pain is horrible but its a great deal better than being dead and no good to anyone.

You cant speak for everyone though. While I completely agree with you, to inflict your views on others is rotten. People should be allowed do what they want with their own lives and their own bodies. If they want to kill themselves, let them.

To suggest it should always be a court matter is pathetic too. Life is not an issue of legal politics.

[Sticks]

This should remain illegal and it's time they started enforcing this law, like in the case of the parents wgo took their son to Dignitas

Legitimising assisted suicide will put the elderly and disabled at risk by relatives pressurising them in to dying for financial gain.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Sticks
This should remain illegal and it's time they started enforcing this law, like in the case of the parents wgo took their son to Dignitas

Legitimising assisted suicide will put the elderly and disabled at risk by relatives pressurising them in to dying for financial gain.

What if it was regulated?

[Tom4784]

If it's what a person wants then definately. I don't agree with suicide but you can't suspend the wish of people who'd want to do this because of a hypothetical situation. That is stupid.

As long as there are strict regulations involved and checks to make sure nobody is being pressurised about it then what's wrong about it.

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Stu

You cant speak for everyone though. While I completely agree with you, to inflict your views on others is rotten. People should be allowed do what they want with their own lives and their own bodies. If they want to kill themselves, let them.

To suggest it should always be a court matter is pathetic too. Life is not an issue of legal politics.

giving an oppinion always does inflict a view on someone else, thats the defintion of an oppinion, if it didnt I suppose an oppinion would count for nothing.

To say its rotten is extremely hurtful, and I thought you were better than that.
Interstingly you did'nt find anything wrong factually about the statement, that being dead is indeed no good to anyone.

Oh and if we took your views littrally we have no accountabillity at all,
"people should be allowed to do what they like with there own bodies"

So, people can get drunk and go home and abuse family members?
Kill people whilst under the influence of narcotics?
People can smoke where the hell they like too?
People can jump in front of trains, cars off buildings causing mayhem and possible death to others in this irresponsible and incredibly selfish way of life.
People will alway have the opportunity if not the right to committ suicide, I just don't think it does anyone any good trying to legalise it, that dos'nt mean to say I could'nt or would'nt sympathise with someone who would.
Legalising it by the terms Tom has set out seems ideal, but will always leave the door open someone being "murdered" using this as a cover, and just one case is one to many.

Either way the fact we should be able to do anything with our own bodies is a ridiculously absurd as it it incredibly selfish and truly rotten.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Tom
What if it was regulated?

In the one country where it is regulated there are reports on non-voluntary euthanasia

The system is still open to abuse

[Stu]

Originally posted by Angiebabe

giving an oppinion always does inflict a view on someone else, thats the defintion of an oppinion, if it didnt I suppose an oppinion would count for nothing.

To say its rotten is extremely hurtful, and I thought you were better than that.
Interstingly you did'nt find anything wrong factually about the statement, that being dead is indeed no good to anyone.

Oh and if we took your views littrally we have no accountabillity at all,
"people should be allowed to do what they like with there own bodies"

So, people can get drunk and go home and abuse family members?
Kill people whilst under the influence of narcotics?
People can smoke where the hell they like too?
People can jump in front of trains, cars off buildings causing mayhem and possible death to others in this irresponsible and incredibly selfish way of life.
People will alway have the opportunity if not the right to committ suicide, I just don't think it does anyone any good trying to legalise it, that dos'nt mean to say I could'nt or would'nt sympathise with someone who would.
Legalising it by the terms Tom has set out seems ideal, but will always leave the door open someone being "murdered" using this as a cover, and just one case is one to many.

Either way the fact we should be able to do anything with our own bodies is a ridiculously absurd as it it incredibly selfish and truly rotten.

Okay, let me expand on the obvious into the realm of the even more obvious, seeing as your taking my statement the completely wrong way and putting as negative a spin on it as you possibly can [at this point if I were trying to patronise and discredit you as a person for your views I would say ''I thought you were better than that'' but im just not like that].

Here is what I put foward : People can do what they want with their own bodies as long as thier actions are not harming or interfereing anybody else.

I think it is up to a person to do what they want with themselves as long as their not infringing on the rights of others. And yes, I think to think any different is rotten because it is a removal of basic carnal and cognitive freedoms.

The fact that I found nothing wrong with you statement? Why, because I agree with it of course. Theirs always something in life is my opinion too. Im not naive or stupid enough to think however that everybody is in my position. So on a principal do I disagree with people killing themselves? Hell yes. But are my going to stop them? Hell no.

[Fom]

If don correctly then it should deffinatley made legal, as long as its regulated. There should be certain companies that you have to pay for the costs, and then its not illegal. When you get to a stage where you cant talk or hear, cant move, cant eat properly, cant drink properly. Life becomes very boring and it must be so sad for these people to have to live. I am for it as long as the system doesnt get abused.

[ange7]

Originally posted by Sticks

In the one country where it is regulated there are reports on non-voluntary euthanasia

The system is still open to abuse

lol which ONE country is that? the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium or the state of Oregon in the US?
nah...sorry...you need to provide proof about that.... not calling you a liar mate but facts do get a little twisted as they're passed on... particularly when passed between anti-euthanasia advocates who feel the need to bolster they own opinions. Are you saying that in this one country where it is legal, relatives of sick and dying people have been convicted in a court of law for attempting to fabricate the wishes of the ill person to die?. .... and for their own financial gain? You need to back it up with a link or something.
An Australia state had passed euthanasia laws some years back but they were overruled by then conservative federal government. Point is that the hoops that had to be jumped through to gain permission included 3 separate doctors all agreeing that
1. the person's illness was terminal,
2. the person's quality of life was not going to improve
3. the person was fully cognisant and understood exactly what they were asking for and
4. The doc had no past connection with those involved.
Seems to me under these kind of regulations the reports of people hurrying along the deaths of their elderly or disabled relatives would be unlikely. I'm assuming the country your speaking of had similarly strict rules and procedures. If you've proof of a conviction that backs your view up then I stand corrected.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Angiebabe
Simple answer no.
There is ALWAYS something and someone to live for, and I keep reminding myself of that each and every day I wake up in excrusiating pain.

I now have a cold, which could mean a death sentance in itself, but it sure makes those aches and pains feel much worse.
However no matter how bad I feel, I'd never wish to stop being able to share a conscious moment with my family, and would sorely miss the chance to read and reply to my dear friends here.
Being in this pain is horrible but its a great deal better than being dead and no good to anyone.

I really do respect your desire to live, your desire to keep creating new memories for your family. I dont agree with your opinion though. It could be that I am not as brave as you, or it could be that I dont want to be as brave as you are, I just cant stand the thought of having to go through some awful illness that causes me horrific pain without having the right to end that pain. I dont think I could stand to see my loved ones suffer either, unless of course they had the same desire as you have to live.

Sticks - like Ang says where is your evidence to your statement about people forcing others to committ suicide? you cant make sweeping statements like that without backing them up factually, unless it is wrapped up as an "opinion"

[NettoSuperstar!]

You know what I just dont know! I dont judge anyone that wants to do that but making it legal, I just dont know, death is such massive thing blimey! should we be in control of it? Thats some heavy **** to decide! But then again maybe it should be about personal choice in making that decision. If we're going to decide its ok for people to make that choice then it has to be made official like!

[Tom]

Originally posted by Sticks
This should remain illegal and it's time they started enforcing this law, like in the case of the parents wgo took their son to Dignitas

Legitimising assisted suicide will put the elderly and disabled at risk by relatives pressurising them in to dying for financial gain.

But that happens anyway. If it is heavily regulated, if its clear that its for the best (ie more than 2 doctors and the patient have said) and if anyone caught abusing the system is prosecuted (which is what happens now) then I don't see the problem.

[AngRemembered]

The crimes of Harold Shipman are a good example of how things go wrong (even without legislation supporting assisted suicide) when a Doctor is allowed to play god on someones life.
Regulations always look good on paper but in practise they will only make killers like Shipman harder to detect, and boy it was tough enough to bring him to justice 236 murders are ascribed to him alone whilst a legal GP.

Thats 236 innocent people dead and 1000's more lives ruined by one individual supposedly regulated and trusted to sustain life and care for the most vunerable in our socierty.
Hell, we as a nation could'nt even vet the doc, our social services system is falling apart at the seems with baby P and Karen Mathews just the tip of a massive Iceburg of errors and down right neglect, and people want to now give these very same organisations the legal power to assist in death???? Hell what on earth are they doing now then???

I for one would'nt like to go and explain to the dead victims family's that,,
"you know what in may seem bad for you at the moment but believe me there are 4 people in Stockport who are most grateful they have the chance to be killed by there doctor we were sure we had your moms consent but the report social services made looks like it was ammended whilst it went missing on the 4:25 York to Leeds inter city express.
I am sorry, here take one of our cards there is a 24 hour helpline number on the back".

Sounds ludicrous? Not by half, untill of course they make the biggest error yet and ammend the law and allow completly incompetant a**ses like Haringay and Sheffield social care to assist in ending someones life, only this time no resignations or sackings, they'll be doing it legally.

Then the above won't sound like some hyperthetical joke, it will be front page FACT, and this time we'll ALL be to blame.

[ange7]

Originally posted by Angiebabe
The crimes of Harold Shipman are a good example of how things go wrong (even without legislation supporting assisted suicide) when a Doctor is allowed to play god on someones life.
Regulations always look good on paper but in practise they will only make killers like Shipman harder to detect, and boy it was tough enough to bring him to justice 236 murders are ascribed to him alone whilst a legal GP.

Thats 236 innocent people dead and 1000's more lives ruined by one individual supposedly regulated and trusted to sustain life and care for the most vunerable in our socierty.
Hell, we as a nation could'nt even vet the doc, our social services system is falling apart at the seems with baby P and Karen Mathews just the tip of a massive Iceburg of errors and down right neglect, and people want to now give these very same organisations the legal power to assist in death???? Hell what on earth are they doing now then???

I for one would'nt like to go and explain to the dead victims family's that,,
"you know what in may seem bad for you at the moment but believe me there are 4 people in Stockport who are most grateful they have the chance to be killed by there doctor we were sure we had your moms consent but the report social services made looks like it was ammended whilst it went missing on the 4:25 York to Leeds inter city express.
I am sorry, here take one of our cards there is a 24 hour helpline number on the back".

Sounds ludicrous? Not by half, untill of course they make the biggest error yet and ammend the law and allow completly incompetant a**ses like Haringay and Sheffield social care to assist in ending someones life, only this time no resignations or sackings, they'll be doing it legally.

Then the above won't sound like some hyperthetical joke, it will be front page FACT, and this time we'll ALL be to blame.

Harold Shipman has nothing to do with assisted suicide debate. What are you on about again? He wasn't "allowed" to play god ...UK had NO euthanasia laws plus he went to prison..so why would you classify the act of a lunatic as somehow state sponsored. Under a regulated euthanasia law examples of rogue doctors would be no more possible than they are now.With or without euthanasia laws crack pot doctors who lose their mind can still do what he did except in euthanasia cases more than one doctors signature is needed so your rant is way off. Why did you even bring that up?.. baby P !?! Karen Mathews !?! the collapse of the social service system.... ?? it's all linked is it Theses random dot's don't all join up to make your case...FFS are you saying we're all as as evil as shipman and the rest because we support the right of those who are in unbearable pain with zero hope of recovery to end their lives with dignity?

Who are you to decide for them?

These people are a) conscious and logical humans, b) in pain and suffering c) have no hope of recovery d) palliative care only prolongs the pain e) they want to go on their own terms with dignity instead of it being long and drawn out while they are totally in paralysis and therefore incapable of action.Imagine it!!! .But YOU want to decide for them....?. You even compare yourself to them!!! omg ....are you confined to a bed in agony every second wishing that you were dead?.... NO your sitting behind a pc in slippers typing on the tibb forum using the fact you have cancer to try to get the moral high ground in EVERY argument you have... how dare you then say you know what they are going through.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Angiebabe
The crimes of Harold Shipman are a good example of how things go wrong (even without legislation supporting assisted suicide) when a Doctor is allowed to play god on someones life.
Regulations always look good on paper but in practise they will only make killers like Shipman harder to detect, and boy it was tough enough to bring him to justice 236 murders are ascribed to him alone whilst a legal GP.

Thats 236 innocent people dead and 1000's more lives ruined by one individual supposedly regulated and trusted to sustain life and care for the most vunerable in our socierty.
Hell, we as a nation could'nt even vet the doc, our social services system is falling apart at the seems with baby P and Karen Mathews just the tip of a massive Iceburg of errors and down right neglect, and people want to now give these very same organisations the legal power to assist in death???? Hell what on earth are they doing now then???

I for one would'nt like to go and explain to the dead victims family's that,,
"you know what in may seem bad for you at the moment but believe me there are 4 people in Stockport who are most grateful they have the chance to be killed by there doctor we were sure we had your moms consent but the report social services made looks like it was ammended whilst it went missing on the 4:25 York to Leeds inter city express.
I am sorry, here take one of our cards there is a 24 hour helpline number on the back".

Sounds ludicrous? Not by half, untill of course they make the biggest error yet and ammend the law and allow completly incompetant a**ses like Haringay and Sheffield social care to assist in ending someones life, only this time no resignations or sackings, they'll be doing it legally.

Then the above won't sound like some hyperthetical joke, it will be front page FACT, and this time we'll ALL be to blame.

But using Harold Shipman as an example isnt really a true example of assisted suicide, its an example of a very clever manipulative mass murderer which is something totally different to the issues we are discussing here.

Assisted suicide is about choice and I would not want to be involved in refusing anyone their right to decide what happens to themselves. It is in my opinion a basic human right that we in the UK are denied. We treat our pets in a more humane way than we do our people.

Many people just feel their life has no value like the rugby player Daniel James who had to leave his own home country to end his life with his loved ones around him. His parents had to make one of the hardest decisions of their lives, and now they face prosecution in this country for allowing their son to make a choice. He had failed in several suicide attempts and was finally allowed to die with dignity, how can that be a crime?

[AngRemembered]

Harold Shipman is an example of a legal and sound minded Doctor (up until his trial, did we know differently beforehand?) who WOULD be called to make or help to qualify decisions on assisted suicide.
He is therefore a very good example of how legalising suicide can and will go wrong.
I use social services as they would also be involved in this dilema should we all lose our marbles and make this law, (but to be honest I don't think we in the UK will ever get that barmy) unless of course a seperate but equally incompetant and bungling buracrtic organisation is going to be "made up" specialising in this area. All we have now are Doctors(some like Shipman who was stuck off AFTER his trial not before) and Social workers (who are the a bit like Shipman but never get the same sort of trial or sentance).
Either way mistakes WILL be made..thats a fact of life.
Missuse will also be a sad fact of potential change, so why change? People will do and I dare say "assisted" taking there own life, and in most cases looked at sympathetically by all, including the people here arguing for a no change view.
However, preventing one mistake and 1 one miss use to me eqautes to 2 innocent people staying alive.
What is wrong with that?

[NettoSuperstar!]

Yeh If people feel so strongly that theyll go abroad to do it, well it makes the argument in favour of legalizing it here stronger.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Angiebabe
Harold Shipman is an example of a legal and sound minded Doctor (up until his arrest did we know differently) Who would be called to make or help to qualify decisions on assisted suicide, he is therefore a very good example of how legalising suicidecan and will go wrong.
I use social services as they would also be involved in this dilema should we all lose our marbles and make this law, (but to be honest I don't think we in the UK will ever get that barmy) unless of course a seperate but equally incompetant and bungling buracrtic organisation is going to be "made up" specialising in this area. All we have now are Doctors and Social workers.
Either way mistakes WILL be made..thats fact
Miss use will be likely and definately possible, so why change what we have now? Preventing one mistake and 1 one miss use to me eqautes to 2 innocent people staying alive.
What is wrong with that?

Im fed up of people saying the NHS and Social Services are incompetant, corrupt, bungling etc! Not looking at the bloody good stuff they do or really thinks about the reasons why mistakes get made from time to time!