[Twosugars]

I don't share your optimism that religion is being phased out.
Don't underestimate the irrationality of people. It is merely dormant and liable to come back stronger and stranger at any point when societies go through a difficult patch.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I don't share your optimism that religion is being phased out.
Don't underestimate the irrationality of people. It is merely dormant and liable to come back stronger and stranger at any point when societies go through a difficult patch.

My observation of it is that it's polarising. You don't really get your "granny's" religion any more where everyone was "quite religious" and went to Church on a Sunday etc. etc... there are far more people who either actively don't believe (having given it thought) or "passively" don't observe religion (having given it no thought and don't care either way)... but on the other hand... the still large section of society that believes, is becoming "more religious". I wouldn't use the word "extreme" as that's an exaggeration, mostly, but definitely more "involved" and well read on their religion.

I guess in theory, it's that the "default" for people who aren't interested either way is now NON-religion, whereas the "default" used to be going along with the rituals and ceremonies of religion out of tradition?


That said - I don't think "the afterlife" and "organised religion" are necessarily the same debate. I mean obviously, organised religions have their doctrine on the afterlife, but I don't think everyone who believes in (or at least is open to the idea of) an afterlife necessarily observes any religious practice.

[bitontheslide]

We have proven pre birth memories so why not post death? The brain and the nervous system and then individual cells are so inter connected that we just dont have the requisite knowledge to make a valued judgement at this point in time.

Also, i'm one that believes in the possibilities of alternative universes. If you have an alternate self in another universe are you then truly dead?

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Livia

I believe "something" happens. I have no idea what.

This is exactly the same for me. I don't subscribe to any particular religious belief, but I do think (or perhaps like to think) that there's something after.

And if there's not at least I won't know

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

We have proven pre birth memories so why not post death? The brain and the nervous system and then individual cells are so inter connected that we just dont have the requisite knowledge to make a valued judgement at this point in time.

Also, i'm one that believes in the possibilities of alternative universes. If you have an alternate self in another universe are you then truly dead?

Have we?
Care to link to the relevant proof/research?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Have we?
Care to link to the relevant proof/research?

I was wondering about this one too

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I was wondering about this one too

ok, maybe not proven, but lots of anecdotal evidence For example I know that children can remember music played in the womb

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Since physical changes to the brain (deterioration or trauma, or even just hormonal and chemical fluctuation) can significantly alter both personality and memory, it seems to me that it's effectively proven that personality is not separate to the physical brain, and thus its very unlikely that an individual personality (as we understand it) persists when the brain is dead / destroyed.

As I know you've posted lots about ECT Redway, I think it's worth asking the question; how can you believe that an individual exists outside of their physical brain and persists when that brain ceases to exist, and also believe in ECT (that physically affecting the brain can alter mood or even personality)? I find the two to be inherently incompatible.

Because there’s more to life than what meets the average eye.

[Matthew.]

I just hope I’m reincarnated as something decent, but knowing my luck I’ll come back as a bowling pin or something

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

ok, maybe not proven, but lots of anecdotal evidence For example I know that children can remember music played in the womb

Anecdotal is not good enough, it means bc someone said so.
Besides what would that have to do with afterlife? The foetus is a living organism not a decaying one.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Anecdotal is not good enough, it means bc someone said so.
Besides what would that have to do with afterlife? The foetus is a living organism not a decaying one.

Yeah I mean there's lots of anecdotal stories saying ghosts are real too

[Ant.]

On the fence.

I like to believe that, once I die, it's not just complete darkness. Although the fact I'm not 'certain' (conflicting evidence to suggest there is one/isn't one, but on that note, no one is sure. Plus my knowledge on the arguments is minimal and I've not pursued it further so I don't feel like I can truly have a strong opinion on it since I've got little to base it on) plus the fact I never really think about a life after death means I'm not 100% believing it

Whether I believe in it or not is completely separate from my religious beliefs, despite the overlap.

So yeah, I'm open-minded as to what happens after death but I'd like to hope there is something.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

We have proven pre birth memories so why not post death?

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

ok, maybe not proven,

[AnnieK]

I've written about this before but when my Grandad died he promised if there was anything on the "other side", he would come back and tell me. I spent 6 months ****ting it after he died that he would be sat on my edge of my bed in the middle of the night.....but nothing.

Then when my mum was in the hospice about 24 hours before she died, the weirdest thing happened. She had been completely unresponsive for 2 days, breathing but no reaction to anything around her. She hadn't been with it for around a week but for 2 days there was nothing. However, she opened her eyes, looked into the corner.of the room, smiled and put her arms up as if she was hugging someone, she didn't look at any of us and as soon as her arms.met she was out of it again. One of the hospice nurses said similar things happen quite often with people near death and some say it's when previously passed loved ones come to "get" their spirits / souls, whatever.

Now I know.its probably some brain activity triggered by approaching death but I would love to think it was her dad coming to greet her. She died about 24 hours after that happened. My heart says there's something after, my head says there isn't.

TLDR : I'm on the fence

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

We have proven pre birth memories so why not post death? The brain and the nervous system and then individual cells are so inter connected that we just dont have the requisite knowledge to make a valued judgement at this point in time.

Also, i'm one that believes in the possibilities of alternative universes. If you have an alternate self in another universe are you then truly dead?

Bots that sounds more like science fiction or something from Twilight Zone , still interesting though .

[Redway]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Bots that sounds more like science fiction or something from Twilight Zone , still interesting though .

He might have a point though.

[Northern Monkey]

The Multiverse is a legitimate scientific theory.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Redway

He might have a point though.

I don't believe in that , but i find those things fascinating especially in movies .

[Jessica.]

Everything about you is gone when you die. You just stop existing. There's still some organic matter that was your body, but it's not really you. That's my perspective. I don't think it's scary but I don't find it exciting either, obviously, it's just what it is. I don't have a problem with people believing in other things, you do you.

[Milja.]

Originally Posted by Moniqua

when we die, our spirit/soul leaves our bodies and then we just float wherever we want around the world for eternity WHEW

Like a wig?

[Moniqua]

Originally Posted by Milja.

Like a wig?

NOT you still being alive

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Ant.

On the fence.

I like to believe that, once I die, it's not just complete darkness. Although the fact I'm not 'certain' (conflicting evidence to suggest there is one/isn't one, but on that note, no one is sure. Plus my knowledge on the arguments is minimal and I've not pursued it further so I don't feel like I can truly have a strong opinion on it since I've got little to base it on) plus the fact I never really think about a life after death means I'm not 100% believing it

Whether I believe in it or not is completely separate from my religious beliefs, despite the overlap.

So yeah, I'm open-minded as to what happens after death but I'd like to hope there is something.

What are your religious beliefs?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The Multiverse is a legitimate scientific theory.

The operative word being, theory, Monkey.

No one knows for sure, no matter how scientific you think you are or what "evidence" you might have seen. So what's the point in trying to beat someone down with an opinion? Not you personally, Monkey, I'm talking generally.

[Twosugars]

yeah, we don't have evidence either way so theoretically anything is possible: a god or no god. But the specificity of most religious doctrines makes them unlikely I.e. there may be a god out there, but the chances s/he is exactly as described by this or that set of holy scriptures are slim.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

yeah, we don't have evidence either way so theoretically anything is possible: a god or no god. But the specificity of most religious doctrines makes them unlikely I.e. there may be a god out there, but the chances s/he is exactly as described by this or that set of holy scriptures are slim.

The Bible as it stands today is highly distorted, no doubt about that.