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Old 16-04-2019, 03:35 AM   #26
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She radicalises Nicky who then changes his User name to some prophet and he sets out to Recruit new members.

Lt tells him to wash his mouth out with whiskey but then has a breakdown over the whiskey he could of drunk.
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Old 16-04-2019, 07:08 AM   #27
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..this makes me think of Twosugars’ thread discussing the value of human life...I guess that Shamima’s life doesn’t have great value for many people for understandable reasons...I don’t know, it’s a difficult one...she was 15yrs old and she had been radicalised when she made the decisions she did...she was a child...and it would be nice to think that she had a ‘second chance’ in her life...sadly though, I’m not sure that will ever be the case for her because she’s so recognisable...even if she were allowed back, how could she ever have a life of any ‘value’ with the depth of negative feeling against her....her life/her family’s life would be impossible surely...
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Old 16-04-2019, 07:38 AM   #28
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..this makes me think of Twosugars’ thread discussing the value of human life...I guess that Shamima’s life doesn’t have great value for many people for understandable reasons...I don’t know, it’s a difficult one...she was 15yrs old and she had been radicalised when she made the decisions she did...she was a child...and it would be nice to think that she had a ‘second chance’ in her life...sadly though, I’m not sure that will ever be the case for her because she’s so recognisable...even if she were allowed back, how could she ever have a life of any ‘value’ with the depth of negative feeling against her....her life/her family’s life would be impossible surely...
The problem is ammi, she has not shown an ounce of remorse which would be disgusting in it’s self but furthermore went on to support the Manchester bombing.

The devil comes in many forms, she is one of them.
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Old 16-04-2019, 07:46 AM   #29
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She radicalises Nicky who then changes his User name to some prophet and he sets out to Recruit new members.

Lt tells him to wash his mouth out with whiskey but then has a breakdown over the whiskey he could of drunk.
Ew, and btw i would never be able to get radicalised, terrorists are lowest of lowest scum


i do stand up for muslims tho, cause some innocent muslims get discriminated bc of terrorists making them look like evil people in general what they aren't, you have terrorists in every religion, who are a disgrace to those religions
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Old 16-04-2019, 08:29 AM   #30
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..this makes me think of Twosugars’ thread discussing the value of human life...I guess that Shamima’s life doesn’t have great value for many people for understandable reasons...I don’t know, it’s a difficult one...she was 15yrs old and she had been radicalised when she made the decisions she did...she was a child...and it would be nice to think that she had a ‘second chance’ in her life...sadly though, I’m not sure that will ever be the case for her because she’s so recognisable...even if she were allowed back, how could she ever have a life of any ‘value’ with the depth of negative feeling against her....her life/her family’s life would be impossible surely...
Her only realistic second chance would be if she was successfully "de-radicalised" and became an educator / activist in preventing the radicalisation of kids and teens; she has no chance of simply stepping away from it all and living a quiet life.
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Old 16-04-2019, 08:48 AM   #31
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So, she wants legal aid from a country she hates ,I hope she isn't,granted it she was sowing people into suicide vests etc,sorry it's wrong to take her back or even help her after all as it was pointed out on a debate earlier the Hillboro families were not granted legal aid, so why would you grant it to her.


You said all I wanted to Kazanne.
Well said.
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Old 16-04-2019, 08:49 AM   #32
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Her only realistic second chance would be if she was successfully "de-radicalised" and became an educator / activist in preventing the radicalisation of kids and teens; she has no chance of simply stepping away from it all and living a quiet life.
...even with that TS, I don’t think that second chance would be realistic...With the added media coverage she’s had as well over this, I just don’t think it would be safe for her to return...the only possibility would be to be that educator from where she is now...
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Old 16-04-2019, 08:59 AM   #33
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It doesn't sound like she wants to come back because she's having a realisation of how awful the ideology is and having an "oh my god, what have I done" moment ... it seems more like "it's haaaard hereee, I want a council flat so I can mooch foreverrr"
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Old 16-04-2019, 09:14 AM   #34
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We have one as well with a kid wanting to come home to Ireland, looks like she will probably be allowed too :

However, speaking to reporters in Dublin on Monday, Mr Varadkar said despite concerns over the safety of the wider public Ms Smith has the right to return to Ireland with her child.

"Going to Syria or going to live in what was called Islamic State is not in itself an offence or a crime. So we will need to carry out an investigation.

"I know the authorities there will want to interrogate her to see if she has been involved in any crimes there. But it’s very possible that she wasn’t a combatant, for example.

"We really need to get to the bottom of the facts here, to carry out a security assessment to see if the Syrian authorities want to carry out a prosecution or not.

"But ultimately this is an Irish citizen and we don’t believe that removing an Irish citizen’s citizenship from her or her family, rendering them stateless, would be either the right or compassionate thing to do.

As an Irish citizen, she will have the right to return to Ireland as will her child. But as an Irish citizen, it’s not just as simple as coming here and everything proceeding as if nothing had happened.

"We’ll make sure that if she does return to Ireland, that she isn’t a threat to anybody here either," Mr Varadkar said.

Concerns have grown over the potential return of Isis members to European nations in recent weeks due to the collapse of Isis-controlled regions.

Speaking to the Irish Examiner at the EU-Arab League summit in Egypt last month, Mr Varadkar said it would be "bad practice to revoke somebody's citizenship" as it would render them stateless and leave them to be somebody else's problem".

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...nd-910150.html
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Old 16-04-2019, 09:25 AM   #35
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...there are surely going to be many young people, barely children themselves who were radicalised..who now wish to return to their families..it is something that needs to be addressed because separating them from their families and making them stateless doesn’t seem to be an answer that would ‘solve’ anything...and actually feels quite barbaric to me...if the media is to be believed in that she was an active part in IS..?...then surely it should also be believed in that government sections were aware of her successful radicalisation and yet didn’t act or inform her family...it’s a mess tbh...
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Old 16-04-2019, 09:37 AM   #36
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We have one as well with a kid wanting to come home to Ireland, looks like she will probably be allowed too :

However, speaking to reporters in Dublin on Monday, Mr Varadkar said despite concerns over the safety of the wider public Ms Smith has the right to return to Ireland with her child.

"Going to Syria or going to live in what was called Islamic State is not in itself an offence or a crime. So we will need to carry out an investigation.

"I know the authorities there will want to interrogate her to see if she has been involved in any crimes there. But it’s very possible that she wasn’t a combatant, for example.

"We really need to get to the bottom of the facts here, to carry out a security assessment to see if the Syrian authorities want to carry out a prosecution or not.

"But ultimately this is an Irish citizen and we don’t believe that removing an Irish citizen’s citizenship from her or her family, rendering them stateless, would be either the right or compassionate thing to do.

As an Irish citizen, she will have the right to return to Ireland as will her child. But as an Irish citizen, it’s not just as simple as coming here and everything proceeding as if nothing had happened.

"We’ll make sure that if she does return to Ireland, that she isn’t a threat to anybody here either," Mr Varadkar said.

Concerns have grown over the potential return of Isis members to European nations in recent weeks due to the collapse of Isis-controlled regions.

Speaking to the Irish Examiner at the EU-Arab League summit in Egypt last month, Mr Varadkar said it would be "bad practice to revoke somebody's citizenship" as it would render them stateless and leave them to be somebody else's problem".

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...nd-910150.html
That has been central to the issue in this case, the majority of returnees have carried on as if nothing has happened and it doesn't sit well with the public
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Old 16-04-2019, 09:41 AM   #37
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That has been central to the issue in this case, the majority of returnees have carried on as if nothing has happened and it doesn't sit well with the pubic
...you might want to change that last word, Cherie....
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Old 16-04-2019, 09:43 AM   #38
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That has been central to the issue in this case, the majority of returnees have carried on as if nothing has happened and it doesn't sit well with the pubic
Yeah that's not right. I do agree with Leo that as an Irish citizen it should be us who deal with her and her baby is Irish also however she does need to be dealt with thoroughly and not just put back out on the street either
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Old 16-04-2019, 09:44 AM   #39
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...you might want to change that last word, Cherie....
I didn't even spot that
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Old 16-04-2019, 09:51 AM   #40
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I don't think it's possible to quantify what a smack in the face this is for British taxpayers - of all races and religions - unless you look into the cases that have been refused Legal Aid. It makes me wonder what the ****ing hell is going on.

She hates Britain, she left Britain to fight with IS and when it all went tits up she decided living in Britain was a better option. We told her no, we don't want you back... and now she's been granted British taxpayer's money to fight her revoked citizenship.
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Old 16-04-2019, 09:55 AM   #41
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this is a good example of where "doing the right thing" within a civilised society becomes difficult. We have a set of standards that are meant for the benefit of all, but sometimes those standards conflict with what the situation deserves.

We cannot discard our rights that we provide to individuals based on 1 case when it is there to benefit the many.

She is/was a UK citizen, she doesn't have any income, she is therefore entitled to legal representation to fight her case, whether we think she is guilty or not. In the general scheme of things, if her citizenship was taken away unjustly then as a civilised nation, she has the right to have it re-instated.

If she does end up coming back here, it doesn't mean she shouldn't be monitored to ensure she doesn't cause further trouble, there is clearly a big red flag against her for her actions, but that may be the limit of what a civilised nation can do in order to protect the freedoms of the many.
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Old 16-04-2019, 10:05 AM   #42
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this is a good example of where "doing the right thing" within a civilised society becomes difficult. We have a set of standards that are meant for the benefit of all, but sometimes those standards conflict with what the situation deserves.

We cannot discard our rights that we provide to individuals based on 1 case when it is there to benefit the many.

She is/was a UK citizen, she doesn't have any income, she is therefore entitled to legal representation to fight her case, whether we think she is guilty or not. In the general scheme of things, if her citizenship was taken away unjustly then as a civilised nation, she has the right to have it re-instated.

If she does end up coming back here, it doesn't mean she shouldn't be monitored to ensure she doesn't cause further trouble, there is clearly a big red flag against her for her actions, but that may be the limit of what a civilised nation can do in order to protect the freedoms of the many.
So, give her Legal Aid, and then spend the rest of her like paying to have her monitored? Why should we do that?

We are a civilised nation... and if you want proof of that look at any Islamic country... have the legal right to strip someone of their citizenship when it for the greater good. And that's what we have done. Let in one terrorist, might as well let them all in. I'm sure they've all got sob stories as to why they should be allowed back. There are plenty of organisations who are happy to do pro bono legal work for all kinds of questionable characters ... maybe she could rely on one of those? Or perhaps her pareents/family/community could stump up the cash. But no, we're going to let her milk the pockets of the people she hated enough to leave. With all the decent people dying and being persecuted in the world, why are we worrying about this woman, who said, on camera, that the Manchester bombing was "justified?

Like I said, maybe look at some of the cases that get turned down for Legal Aid to see why this award is cynical.
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Old 16-04-2019, 10:21 AM   #43
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Tbh, it seems wrong she's getting state help to fight her case considering her actions and views have been hostile to the British state.
It seems there's something missing in our legal framework and somehow these people are not recognized as traitors as they should imo.
In her case the fact she was only 15 should be taken into consideration. But so should her lack of remorse.
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Old 16-04-2019, 10:26 AM   #44
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Maybe she should start a GoFundMe?
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Old 16-04-2019, 10:26 AM   #45
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Maybe she should start a GoFundMe?
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Old 16-04-2019, 10:51 AM   #46
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Old 16-04-2019, 10:52 AM   #47
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If I had any faith that she would be dealt with appropriately she could come back all day long but I don't think this would happen in the UK unfortunately
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Old 16-04-2019, 10:56 AM   #48
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If I had any faith that she would be dealt with appropriately she could come back all day long but I don't think this would happen in the UK unfortunately
mmmm the problem is though the Uk is expecting some other country to deal with her instead, someone is going to have to, it doesn't seem very fair when she's a British Citizen and it was in Britain she was radicalised
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Old 16-04-2019, 11:03 AM   #49
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mmmm the problem is though the Uk is expecting some other country to deal with her instead, someone is going to have to, it doesn't seem very fair when she's a British Citizen and it was in Britain she was radicalised
...yep, my feelings also..it’s obviously not an ideal but it has to be dealt with ...and making people stateless doesn’t seem to me to be the answer...this is our responsibility...and surely taking such responsibility was the ‘alleged’ point in fighting the Brexit fight...
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Old 16-04-2019, 11:09 AM   #50
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Over 40,000 people - mostly men, but some women and children - left their home countries to join IS. IS fighters come from more than 80 countries around the world. We're not the only country to have this problem.
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