[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Joey
China's Covid-19
arrived at that election time
Everything is on hold.



NEVER skip that

I was referring to this leadership election arista not the general election.

[bitontheslide]

when boris removed the whip on the competent tories and had them deselected at the last election it resulted in a parliamentary tory party that were only interested in feathering their own nests. I don't think that all of them are stupid (although many seem to be) but they don't give a fig about the people, they care about their latest back hander

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I was referring to this leadership election arista not the general election.

OK


Sorry.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

OK


Sorry.

no need for sorry.
I maybe should have stated this leadership election in my post.

[hijaxers]

Just heard on Talk tv that party members have been getting letters saying that they can only vote once ! it is illegal to vote again ? Is there something really underhand going on here ???

[arista]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

Just heard on Talk tv that party members have been getting letters saying that they can only vote once ! it is illegal to vote again ? Is there something really underhand going on here ???

Yes Hackers,

[arista]

BBCText :
[Voting in the Tory leadership election has
been delayed over warnings that hackers
could change people's ballots.
It says the concerns mean that plans to
allow members to change their vote up
until the final deadline have been scrapped as a result.]

[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

For Joey

Political Scientist Prof Sir John Curtice
showing why any voting changes
are not wanted

[arista]

Another Local Hustings tonight
in Cardiff Live

I hope again SkyNewsHD shows it

GMBHD itv have their Lady Reporter there now
in the rain

[arista]

Only One Vote now.

A week for the postal one to arrive
for those old conservatives members that do not do online
or want to do it, online voting


GMBHD itv.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

For Joey

Political Scientist Prof Sir John Curtice
showing why any voting changes
are not wanted

Not for me arista
Curtice has his own agenda.

Voting changes are wanted.
By voters, by all other Parties except the Cons.

I will push all I can to persuade Labour to adopt PR.
It would win an election I believe and have the support of every Party elected to Westminster.
Obviously not the Cons who don't believe in fairer voting and only want absolute power for their own extreme policy implementation.

It needs one of the 2 main Parties to accept PR.
Only Labour could be likely to.
PR in part is used in ALL other elections across the UK, except still for local and general elections.

I don't expect Cons to embrace it.
The only Party of all Parties not to want it.
Over 80% of Labour members want it.
Voters of Labour and other Parties too, ( not the Cons obviously).
Plus all other Parties.
Crikey even likely the DUP in N Ireland.

Curtice has his own agenda on things but I wholly disagree with him on this.

It has to be stopped that Parties can take really large overall majorities and govern with only around the support of 4 (+) of every 10 voters.
Thereby riding over the wishes and votes of the majority of voters.
That is now NOT the right kind of democracy.

Up to a quarter of voters now rarely support either of the 2 main Parties.
Their votes counting for nothing.
That's NOT a fair democracy any longer.

[arista]

"Curtice has his own agenda on things"


Good job the Professor
is not on this forum

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

"Curtice has his own agenda on things"


Good job the Professor
is not on this forum

I couldn't care one.bit if he was arista.
I'd tell him my view which is long held now.

It is wholly right that for to govern absolutely overall majorities that it should be you need 50% + of the votes cast.

In 2005 Labour governed with a 68 overall majority getting less than 36% of the votes.
That's obscene in a so called democracy.

The last election for only 43% of the votes put this extreme government in with an 80 overall majority.

The wishes of 55+% of voters meaningless.
All those voters with NO representation in or to government

Curtice likely doesn't like PR.
I find I don't agree with a lot of his own findings.

This now derided and tarnished political electoral system of government cannot be fixed or restore trust in by retaining this antiquated first past the post system.

Of course Cons would be screaming and panicking if PR was to become more a reality.
Not all Cons, I do know of Cons who now also support PR in some form.

[arista]

New

Wednesday 10 August

The People's Forum 5PM

GBnewsHD


Liz Truss Live

[arista]

Rishi Sunak will be Live Saturday 6 August

with Alistair Stewart

GBnewsHD

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Not for me arista
Curtice has his own agenda.

Voting changes are wanted.
By voters, by all other Parties except the Cons.

I will push all I can to persuade Labour to adopt PR.
It would win an election I believe and have the support of every Party elected to Westminster.
Obviously not the Cons who don't believe in fairer voting and only want absolute power for their own extreme policy implementation.

It needs one of the 2 main Parties to accept PR.
Only Labour could be likely to.
PR in part is used in ALL other elections across the UK, except still for local and general elections.

I don't expect Cons to embrace it.
The only Party of all Parties not to want it.
Over 80% of Labour members want it.
Voters of Labour and other Parties too, ( not the Cons obviously).
Plus all other Parties.
Crikey even likely the DUP in N Ireland.

Curtice has his own agenda on things but I wholly disagree with him on this.

It has to be stopped that Parties can take really large overall majorities and govern with only around the support of 4 (+) of every 10 voters.
Thereby riding over the wishes and votes of the majority of voters.
That is now NOT the right kind of democracy.

Up to a quarter of voters now rarely support either of the 2 main Parties.
Their votes counting for nothing.
That's NOT a fair democracy any longer.

The thing with PR though is that it wouldn't work with the current parliamentary system. We don't vote for the PM, or even the government - we vote for who we want to represent our constituency in the House of Commons. A PR system wouldn't be voting for a local MP.

[bitontheslide]

the only people that ever want to change the electoral system are those who are unhappy with the result. That's a fact. They are unable to accept democracy

[Nicky91]

on second thought Liz would be a horror option, since she is also partially responsible for adding more fuel to the fire in xenophobic hatred towards Russia

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

The thing with PR though is that it wouldn't work with the current parliamentary system. We don't vote for the PM, or even the government - we vote for who we want to represent our constituency in the House of Commons. A PR system wouldn't be voting for a local MP.

Oliver hi.

There's a great number of people in constituencies who haven't a clue who their MP currently is.

There are systems which can keep in the main constituency MP representation.

If things continue as they are then divisions across the UK will only widen.

Why can we have PR for the N Ireland elections, Welsh and Scottish elections.
Plus police and crime commissioner elections and also for ALL Mayoral elections.
However not for council and general elections.

We even had PR for the European elections too.

This system was fine when 2 Parties were taking 80+ to over 90+% of the votes cast.
Not now when they take massive overall majority power with around 40% of the votes only.
Against the votes of we'll over half of those who vote.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the only people that ever want to change the electoral system are those who are unhappy with the result. That's a fact. They are unable to accept democracy

No way.

I'd have wanted PR long before now.

The only ones who actually DON'T want PR and never will are those happy to see the votes of the majority dismissed for year after year in all elections as their Part gets absolute unfettered power to do whatever they like.

That's only the Cons.
Not all of them thankfully, some are seeing the light.

Those who want PR actually want all votes to count, properly representative of votes cast in elections .
Not overridden by a failing electoral system.

Which gave absolute power to someone like Johnson who then abused that power and trust too

PR would mean all votes coming to mean something and all votes to really count and make a difference.
It's no surprise to me however that PR would have Cons screeching and shaking in their boots.

It should never be in any democracy that around 40% of the votes can just dismiss and ignore the votes of way over 50% of the votes against.
By having absolute power.
No matter the Party in power.

50% of the seats for 50% of the votes.
That's true and real fair vote democracy.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Those who want PR actually want all votes to count, properly representative of votes cast in elections .

Every vote does count, as we elect local MPs.

Would you want an American voting system?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Every vote does count, as we elect local MPs.

Would you want an American voting system?

I'd want no candidate elected who didn't get 50% of the votes cast.

A government given total power for only around 40% of the votes cast.
With anything from 25% to 30% not even bothering to vote even.
Is wrong now in my view.

So I support PR.
I believe over the first past the post system now more voters would prefer PR.

Certainly not however the more hard-line Con voters.
No surprise to me is that whatsoever.

It would mean for them and for my Party too that NO Party could govern alone in future and not get ridiculous overall majorities.
My hope would be that would move to a more consensus in both government and politics.

I'd love to see any polling on PR with ALL voters actually.
Not just the Con view of it's only losers who want it.

[The Slim Reaper]

Me being taken away