[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes a Tough Nation in Tough Times.



Feel The Force

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's where you grew up, it's traditions and the people around you all shape you and make you who you are, what's wrong with having an attachment and a loyalty towards that?

I can't be bothered to list them all again, but the earlier post I made in this thread sums up my views on the issue.

Basically, in short:

A) It can encourage racial and xenophobic hatred if not carried out properly, as is often the case
B) People's loyalty to their country never seems to be reciprocated when it comes to people's loyalty to the planet and other human beings
C) It can encourage competition and rivalry between nations, and whilst I admit, that can be quite exciting...it's not always a great idea

I don't completely oppose it (but to me, in principle, the idea of it seems a bit...well, odd), but I just wish it were carried out properly more often. It can be quite a dangerous game, let's be honest here.

As for my own patriotic views...well, I like this country and what it stands for (mostly), however I believe I'd prefer other countries more if I were to visit them. I like seeing our nation succeed in events like the World Cup, that can be quite fun and it's nice to see community spirit arise in times like those, but I don't start putting flags up and insulting other nations when ours don't win, and I don't religiously follow and support our history and success in sporting events and other achievements.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I can't be bothered to list them all again, but the earlier post I made in this thread sums up my views on the issue.

Basically, in short:

A) It can encourage racial and xenophobic hatred if not carried out properly, as is often the case
B) People's loyalty to their country never seems to be reciprocated when it comes to people's loyalty to the planet and other human beings
C) It can encourage competition and rivalry between nations, and whilst I admit, that can be quite exciting...it's not always a great idea

I don't completely oppose it (but to me, in principle, the idea of it seems a bit...well, odd), but I just wish it were carried out properly more often. It can be quite a dangerous game, let's be honest here.

As for my own patriotic views...well, I like this country and what it stands for (mostly), however I believe I'd prefer other countries more if I were to visit them. I like seeing our nation succeed in events like the World Cup, that can be quite fun and it's nice to see community spirit arise in times like those, but I don't start putting flags up and insulting other nations when ours don't win, and I don't religiously follow and support our history and success in sporting events and other achievements.

I understand what you're saying but as I believe someone else pointed out there is a difference between patriotic and Nationalistic. You don't have to hate other countries just because you love your own.

We should be connected to people rather than land masses.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

We should be connected to people rather than land masses.

It doesn't have to be a choice of one or the other though

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

We should be connected to people rather than land masses.

I agree with this really. It's a very strange concept when you think about it like that.

[Niamh.]

Also, being patriotic to your country, imo, includes the people, it not just the land itself.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Also, being patriotic to your country, imo, includes the people, it not just the land itself.

Patriotism is love and devotion to your country, and willingness to sacrifice for it.

I just don't understand a patriotic way of thinking. It's just not in my nature. I understand that people do buy into this land-defined loyalty, but it's not me.

There is no right or wrong here, it's just a remnant from our evolutionary tribal past.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Patriotism is love and devotion to your country, and willingness to sacrifice for it.

I just don't understand a patriotic way of thinking. It's just not in my nature. I understand that people do buy into this land-defined loyalty, but it's not me.

There is no right or wrong here, it's just a remnant from our evolutionary tribal past.

Yes, but a country is not just the land, it's the people, the customs, the way of life.

[lostalex]

It depends which country you're from. If you're from a sheethole of a country that doesn't contribute anything to the world, then being patriotic would just be delusional and obnoxious. If you're from a country that contributes to the world artistically, scientifically, medically, financially, militarily, technologically then of course you should be patriotic.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes, but a country is not just the land, it's the people, the customs, the way of life.

I accept that, but it's still tribal. I don't feel closer to people that I don't know, because they live 20 miles away, rather than thousands of miles away.

It's people and customs that happen to take place upon one piece of land, as opposed to another.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. It's how we all view things as individuals, but I can't get my head around patriotism.

Originally Posted by lostalex

It depends which country you're from. If you're from a sheethole of a country that doesn't contribute anything to the world, then being patriotic would just be delusional and obnoxious. If you're from a country that contributes to the world artistically, scientifically, medically, financially, militarily, technologically then of course you should be patriotic.

What?

[Livia]

I have family members who are very patriotic about Great Britain because it gave them a home after the war when they were liberated from the death camps and arrived here with nothing. It makes me feel patriotic for the part we, as a country, played in that. I feel patriotic about other things this country has done too, contributions it's made to the world, art, literature, music... it makes me proud. There are things this country have done that I am not proud of, but being a patriot I think means acknowledging that. However... when patriotism means wearing the flag on a teeshirt, being racist and thinking we're better than other countries simply by birth, count me out.

[Princess]

People always get annoyed at me for being unpatriotic, why should I have to love this country.

[lostalex]

I've noticed the most hateful people are usually the least patriotic people, a tleast in America. The extreme right wingers in America hate this country for giving blacks and gays so many rights. timothy McVeigh(oklahoma city bomber) ted kazinski(unibomber) and the westboro baptists are incredibly right wing, and all hate their country.