[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Marmalite

Why exactly?

Because she was goading Daley and that was wrong. Having said that it was assault and there's no denying that.

[Marmalite]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Because she was goading Daley and that was wrong. Having said that it was assault and there's no denying that.

So let me get this straight.....

You think that by her having a laugh and flirt with a guy who appeared to be playing along (and had been the days leading up to that night) but then suddenly snapped in a split second, gave him the right to abuse her verbally and physically?

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Marmalite

So let me get this straight.....

You think that by her having a laugh and flirt with a guy who appeared to be playing along (and had been the days leading up to that night) but then suddenly snapped in a split second, gave him the right to abuse her verbally and physically?

No, i didn't say that. The blame goes to Daley. I just didn't like her behaviour that night at all.

[Marmalite]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

No, i didn't say that. The blame goes to Daley. I just didn't like her behaviour that night at all.

Yes you did. You said she was provoking him to verbally and physically assault her.


FYI that's what goading means.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Marmalite

Yes you did. You said she was provoking him to verbally and physically assault her.


FYI that's what goading means.

She was very drunk. No, i don't think she asked for it if that's what you mean.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Marmalite

Yes you did. You said she was provoking him to verbally and physically assault her.


FYI that's what goading means.

I wish you really good luck with your efforts there Marmalite.

They were both flirting after having drink, they are both responsible for the flirting, what though then transpired after the flirting was down to Daley alone, he was the one who turned sinister and not only used threatening behaviour but also threatening language too.

As you say let's hope that no one who is in any way blaming Hazel for Daley's sinister and aggressive change as to his behaviour find thmselves in such a position anytime to then also have people blaming them for it.

You are also spot on, that is exactly what goading means.
It is really sad that just because some took a dislike to Hazel,they could even hold her responsible for any of Daley's subsequent aggression.
That is ridiculous.

In fact after he became aggressive,I actually give Hazel great credit for the way she did handle it,I also believe myself, she really never likely believed he could possibly turn to be so aggressive and sinister either.

[anne666]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I wish you really good luck with your efforts there Marmalite.

They were both flirting after having drink, they are both responsible for the flirting, what though then transpired after the flirting was down to Daley alone, he was the one who turned sinister and not only used threatening behaviour but also threatening language too.

As you say let's hope that no one who is in any way blaming Hazel for Daley's sinister and aggressive change as to his behaviour find thmselves in such a position anytime to then also have people blaming them for it.

You are also spot on, that is exactly what goading means.
It is really sad that just because some took a dislike to Hazel,they could even hold her responsible for any of Daley's subsequent aggression.
That is ridiculous.

In fact after he became aggressive,I actually give Hazel great credit for the way she did handle it,I also believe myself, she really never likely believed he could possibly turn to be so aggressive and sinister either.

This

[Vanessa]

Agreed, but i stand by what i said. I did not like Hazel behaviour that night at all.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Agreed, but i stand by what i said. I did not like Hazel behaviour that night at all.

tbf though, Daley was the one who started it all by lying to her and swearing on his childs life that BB had rang to tell her she had to come in the house. I mean if he wanted to go to sleep why drag her inside? Why not ...............just go to sleep? Hazel clearly didn't want to go to sleep, she was outside talking Charlie when Daley forced her to come in and then he wants to force her to sleep as well? It was very very weird behaviour, hazel was not at fault

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

tbf though, Daley was the one who started it all by lying to her and swearing on his childs life that BB had rang to tell her she had to come in the house. I mean if he wanted to go to sleep why drag her inside? Why not ...............just go to sleep? Hazel clearly didn't want to go to sleep, she was outside talking Charlie when Daley forced her to come in and then he wants to force her to sleep as well? It was very very weird behaviour, hazel was not at fault

Agree. They were both very drunk and i found the whole thing uncomfortable to watch. Daley is just so weird!

[MeMyselfAndI]

Daley was completely in the wrong for his actions, But Hazel still acted disgustingly like usual

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI

Daley was completely in the wrong for his actions, But Hazel still acted disgustingly like usual

That's the point i was trying to make. The whole thing was very odd.

[anne666]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Agree. They were both very drunk and i found the whole thing uncomfortable to watch. Daley is just so weird!

BB should never have allowed Hazel to go into the room, dereliction of their duty to keep her safe. IMO. He was clearly in a drunken demented rage.I was shocked they didn't step in then.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by anne666

BB should never have allowed Hazel to go into the room, dereliction of their duty to keep her safe. IMO. He was clearly in a drunken demented rage.I was shocked they didn't step in then.

Yeah definitely. Did you watch that interview with her someone posted earlier. She said as well that she didn't go straight back into the house afterwards either

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by anne666

BB should never have allowed Hazel to go into the room, dereliction of their duty to keep her safe. IMO. He was clearly in a drunken demented rage.I was shocked they didn't step in then.

Yes. They should have stepped in earlier. Daley gets violent when drunk.

[Marmalite]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

I know there is a desire to pigeon-hole Hazel as a poor abused woman, but she isn't. I can't believe how deluded some people are about this! Save your sympathy for those women who, because of economic circumstances are tied to men who beat them black and blue on a regular basis.

Your attitude towards people, especially women, who have been assaulted and abused is disgusting and is exactly why the world has such a problem with domestic abuse in this day and age!

Just because a woman is strong, independent, attractive and knows what she wants in life and knows how to get it, does not give anyone the right to look down on her and point fingers and lay the blame on her when abuse or assault raises it's ugly head.

How very stereotypical and ignorant of you to blame the economy and use it as an excuse as to why men think it's their god given right to threaten and beat a woman into submission because they fail to bow down and submit to them!

You say "save your sympathy" what a joke! You have zero sympathy for those that deserve it, in fact in my opinion you are the one who is deluded!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Marmalite

Your attitude towards people, especially women, who have been assaulted and abused is disgusting and is exactly why the world has such a problem with domestic abuse in this day and age!

Just because a woman is strong, independent, attractive and knows what she wants in life and knows how to get it, does not give anyone the right to look down on her and point fingers and lay the blame on her when abuse or assault raises it's ugly head.

How very stereotypical and ignorant of you to blame the economy and use it as an excuse as to why men think it's their god given right to threaten and beat a woman into submission because they fail to bow down and submit to them!

You say "save your sympathy" what a joke! You have zero sympathy for those that deserve it, in fact in my opinion you are the one who is deluded!

Really well said Marmalite, I totally agree again.

[courses]

Thought this article might be interesting.
"It is because society tells us that women are objects, not subjects, that when society is presented with a case of male violence or sexual abuse, everyone looks at it from his point of view: “Oh, he must have been provoked to have done that,” “He was a nice man who just snapped,” “He must have been confused by her signals,” “Maybe he’s been falsely accused, how terrible to have to go to jail for that.” With every victim-blaming, rape / violence apologist comment, society reveals through whose eyes it looks, and the answer is invariably the man’s."

cratesandribbons.com/2013/06/08/the-objectification-of-women-it-goes-much-further-than-sexy-pictures/

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by courses

Thought this article might be interesting.
"It is because society tells us that women are objects, not subjects, that when society is presented with a case of male violence or sexual abuse, everyone looks at it from his point of view: “Oh, he must have been provoked to have done that,” “He was a nice man who just snapped,” “He must have been confused by her signals,” “Maybe he’s been falsely accused, how terrible to have to go to jail for that.” With every victim-blaming, rape / violence apologist comment, society reveals through whose eyes it looks, and the answer is invariably the man’s."

cratesandribbons.com/2013/06/08/the-objectification-of-women-it-goes-much-further-than-sexy-pictures/

The evidence is clear in this case. Daley had his hands on Hazel throat. That's assault.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marmalite

Your attitude towards people, especially women, who have been assaulted and abused is disgusting and is exactly why the world has such a problem with domestic abuse in this day and age!

Just because a woman is strong, independent, attractive and knows what she wants in life and knows how to get it, does not give anyone the right to look down on her and point fingers and lay the blame on her when abuse or assault raises it's ugly head.

How very stereotypical and ignorant of you to blame the economy and use it as an excuse as to why men think it's their god given right to threaten and beat a woman into submission because they fail to bow down and submit to them!

You say "save your sympathy" what a joke! You have zero sympathy for those that deserve it, in fact in my opinion you are the one who is deluded!

Have to join with joeysteele and flag this up as a great post.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by courses

Thought this article might be interesting.
"It is because society tells us that women are objects, not subjects, that when society is presented with a case of male violence or sexual abuse, everyone looks at it from his point of view: “Oh, he must have been provoked to have done that,” “He was a nice man who just snapped,” “He must have been confused by her signals,” “Maybe he’s been falsely accused, how terrible to have to go to jail for that.” With every victim-blaming, rape / violence apologist comment, society reveals through whose eyes it looks, and the answer is invariably the man’s."

cratesandribbons.com/2013/06/08/the-objectification-of-women-it-goes-much-further-than-sexy-pictures/

Very interesting and sadly true. Some great posts in here today.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by MeMyselfAndI

Daley was completely in the wrong for his actions, But Hazel still acted disgustingly like usual

How exactly did Hazel act disgustingly? It is not a crime for women to flirt you know. She is young, attractive, confident and a free agent - she can basically do what she likes.

Quite frankly, I am sick of females coming down on other females for behaviour they have no problem with when carried out by male hms. That is what I find disgusting.

[DanaC]

Vanessa: in what way was her behaviour 'disgusting'?

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Vanessa: in what way was her behaviour 'disgusting'?

It seems some women don't like others who are strong and confident enough to break outdated taboos and take the lead.

They would rather they remained in the background, quiet and demure, seen but not heard and living their lives pleasing men.

[DanaC]

Oh don't get me wrong: I didn't like the way Hazel conducted herself in the house during the first weeks. But not because she was being flirty. It's because she seemed to be being manipulative and using her sexuality as a tool for that purpose. I wouldn't like to see that from a woman or a bloke. And I don't see that kind of thing as being a strong, modern woman. All that stuff she was saying when she was telling him to 'be a man' over taking charge in the safe house at the start. And manner in which she tried reestablish his desire for her after he'd said he wanted to back off a bit (given some of what others had said to him about his girlfriend outside).

I think some of what she was doing during that time, sits well with a lot of what passes for 'strong liberated women' in the media these days and which is actually a major step back imo: women's supposed power over men because of their sexual appetites etc.

I didn't dislike it on the grounds of it being 'slutty' or on the grounds of her being a 'homewrecker'. Neither of those have any currency with me. She wasn't a homewrecker, he was. He's the one who claimed he didn't really even have a girlfirend. He's the one who chose to act when he had left a partner in the outside world, apparently waiting for him. She on the other hand was young free and single and under the impression he effectively was as well.