[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I stated revelations... you're the one who hasn't backed up your knowledge of the subject, I haven't patronised you

Stating a book within the bible isn't doing anything. Livia just quoted a line referring to the earth, are you incapable of doing the same? Should be quite easy if it references the earth being flat?

No. You haven't patronised me because your attempts at doing so have fallen... flat.

[Niamh.]

Oh My God, move on guys

ETA : Pardon the Pun

[Toy Soldier]

Kizzy and Marsh, sittin' in a tree, A-R-G-U-I-N-G...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kizzy and Marsh, sittin' in a tree, A-R-G-U-I-N-G...

It wouldn't last longer than 30 seconds before someone got pushed.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It you;ldm't last longer than 30 seconds before someone got pushed.

THIS is Big Brother, would Marsh please come to the diary room.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No I like things very clear and logical, if it was proven in the 6 century BC then why is it suggested in the bible the earth is flat?
Is it that most knew the earth was round and yet those who wrote the bible were wrong?
Makes you wonder what else are they wrong about.

If you like "things" to be "so clear and logical", and have such a concern about "what else" those who wrote the Bible could be "wrong about" - then perhaps, you should concentrate upon rectifying the erroneous assumptions and non-factual assertions in your post.

A) Although it WAS in the 6th century BC that the Greek philosopher Pythagoras proposed that the Earth was spherical, the idea was not generally accepted by his peers and did not start to spread and be generally accepted until almost 300 years later - sometime around 330 BC - when Aristotle provided substantiating evidence for the Spherical Earth theory.

So contrary to your 'facts', it was NOT "proven in the 6 century BC" that the Earth was spherical, AND "Most" certainly did NOT know "that the Earth was round" in the 6th century BC either.

B) Although, it has hitherto been generally accepted by academics and theologians, that the Bible originated in the 6th century BC, this was almost solely because it was believed that the ancient Hebrews did not possess writing BEFORE that time.

However, recent archeological discoveries - which suggest that the ancient Hebrews DID possess writing almost 400 years EARLIER than thought - have caused the consensus to be revised, and it is now generally accepted that the Bible's origins could well have been in the 10th century BC, in the time of King David.

C) Despite this probability that the Old Testament was written centuries BEFORE Pythagoras proposed a Spherical Earth in the 6th century BC, and Aristotle provided empirical evidence for a Spherical Earth in 330 BC, the idea that The Bible states or suggests that the Earth was 'Flat' is WRONG, and the Bible actually suggests that the Earth is spherical in numerous passages.

Just as with thousands of years of misquoting and misunderstanding the Biblical narrative of Exodus, due to a mistranslation of the Hebrew words 'Yam Suph' as The Red Sea, when it actually means Sea of Reeds or Reed Sea, then the reason for the common misconception that The Bible suggests that the Earth was flat, is a misinterpretation of various Old Testament passages which refer to the Earth; Job 26:10; “He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end.”, Isaiah 40:21-22; "the circle of the earth, and Proverbs 8.27; "When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep" - are examples most often cited by skeptics who maintain that a 'circle' is round but one dimensional, as opposed to a sphere.

However, when one becomes aware that the Hebrew word for 'Circle' - (חוג)chuwg, also means 'round' or 'sphere', then far from suggesting that the Earth is FLAT, those very same passages declare it to be 'ROUND or SPHERICAL' in shape.

There is a wealth of corroborating evidence within the same passages that SPHERICAL is EXACTLY what the Biblical authors MEANT, but unsurprisingly, this is missed by anti-Biblical scholars or skeptics.

Those same skeptics and Biblical detractors also seize on the text of Revelation Chapter 7, to support their false claim that the Bible proposed a 'Flat Earth':

"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

Such detractors point to the phrase; 'Four corners of the earth', but the author of Revelation - St John The Divine - was referring to the FOUR CARDINAL POINTS of the Earth.

Just saying - for the sake of clarity and logic.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Stating a book within the bible isn't doing anything. Livia just quoted a line referring to the earth, are you incapable of doing the same? Should be quite easy if it references the earth being flat?

No. You haven't patronised me because your attempts at doing so have fallen... flat.

Hey I'm not your slave, do your own research

[Cherie]

I'm so distracted by Marsh's green lamas I can't comment

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

If you like "things" to be "so clear and logical", and have such a concern about "what else" those who wrote the Bible could be "wrong about" - then perhaps, you should concentrate upon rectifying the erroneous assumptions and non-factual assertions in your post.

A) Although it WAS in the 6th century BC that the Greek philosopher Pythagoras proposed that the Earth was spherical, the idea was not generally accepted by his peers and did not start to spread and be generally accepted until almost 300 years later - sometime around 330 BC - when Aristotle provided substantiating evidence for the Spherical Earth theory.

So contrary to your 'facts', it was NOT "proven in the 6 century BC" that the Earth was spherical, AND "Most" certainly did NOT know "that the Earth was round" in the 6th century BC either.

B) Although, it has hitherto been generally accepted by academics and theologians, that the Bible originated in the 6th century BC, this was almost solely because it was believed that the ancient Hebrews did not possess writing BEFORE that time.

However, recent archeological discoveries - which suggest that the ancient Hebrews DID possess writing almost 400 years EARLIER than thought - have caused the consensus to be revised, and it is now generally accepted that the Bible's origins could well have been in the 10th century BC, in the time of King David.

C) Despite this probability that the Old Testament was written centuries BEFORE Pythagoras proposed a Spherical Earth in the 6th century BC, and Aristotle provided empirical evidence for a Spherical Earth in 330 BC, the idea that The Bible states or suggests that the Earth was 'Flat' is WRONG, and the Bible actually suggests that the Earth is spherical in numerous passages.

Just as with thousands of years of misquoting and misunderstanding the Biblical narrative of Exodus, due to a mistranslation of the Hebrew words 'Yam Suph' as The Red Sea, when it actually means Sea of Reeds or Reed Sea, then the reason for the common misconception that The Bible suggests that the Earth was flat, is a misinterpretation of various Old Testament passages which refer to the Earth; Job 26:10; “He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end.”, Isaiah 40:21-22; "the circle of the earth, and Proverbs 8.27; "When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep" - are examples most often cited by skeptics who maintain that a 'circle' is round but one dimensional, as opposed to a sphere.

However, when one becomes aware that the Hebrew word for 'Circle' - (חוג)chuwg, also means 'round' or 'sphere', then far from suggesting that the Earth is FLAT, those very same passages declare it to be 'ROUND or SPHERICAL' in shape.

There is a wealth of corroborating evidence within the same passages that SPHERICAL is EXACTLY what the Biblical authors MEANT, but unsurprisingly, this is missed by anti-Biblical scholars or skeptics.

Those same skeptics and Biblical detractors also seize on the text of Revelation Chapter 7, to support their false claim that the Bible proposed a 'Flat Earth':

"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

Such detractors point to the phrase; 'Four corners of the earth', but the author of Revelation - St John The Divine - was referring to the FOUR CARDINAL POINTS of the Earth.

Just saying - for the sake of clarity and logic.

Well thanks for that, maybe you should post it to your mate Johnny? he initiated the flat earth discussion.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Hey I'm not your slave, do your own research

It's not about research. It's about the discussion.

If we're discussing the assumption that "the bible claimed the earth was flat" then provide quotes so we can discuss this assumption.

Otherwise simply repeating "The bible says the earth is flat" contributes nothing to this thread really does it?

I can't really discuss where you get the idea from without you telling me which quotes make you think it's saying the earth is flat. Since nowhere in the bible does it literally state so.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well thanks for that, maybe you should post it to your mate Johnny? he initiated the flat earth discussion.

You then took part in said discussion, so why shouldn't he address the posts you've contributed?

[LeatherTrumpet]

can someone please think about Ricky Gervais?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

can someone please think about Ricky Gervais?

Please no. I feel nauseous.

[jaxie]

Just for the record, most folks in the world thought the earth was flat until the introduction of European Astronomy in the 17th century.

And it fact most, based on ancient Chinese theory, thought it was flat and square.

Though I'm sure here must have some theories,you only have to look at the moon for clues.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I'm so distracted by Marsh's green lamas I can't comment

They were driving me mental until they stopped.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

They were driving me mental until they stopped.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Though I'm sure here must have some theories,you only have to look at the moon for clues.

I was just thinking that actually. Surely from the first sparks of reasoning, some humans must have thought "hmm it's probably a sphere" just based on that. Clearly the sun and the moon are round, a few people must have guessed that the world would be the same. And then when the moon is about a week off full either side, the way the shadow is cast I think makes it a quite obvious sphere... There must ALWAYS have been some people thinking, "it's probably just the same as that" as a theory.

I guess the concept of gravity might have made it difficult to understand. But maybe they thought everyone just lived on the top of the sphere. There's a lot of talk in myths / legends of being afraid of falling off of the edge of the world, but that doesn't necessarily mean not understanding that the world is spherical... They might have imagined that if you travelled too far around the sphere you would slip off the side. It's actually the logical conclusion, if you don't know about gravity.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

You then took part in said discussion, so why shouldn't he address the posts you've contributed?

He did and I responded... do you have anything else to add, seeing as you've took it upon yourself to police the thread?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's not about research. It's about the discussion.

If we're discussing the assumption that "the bible claimed the earth was flat" then provide quotes so we can discuss this assumption.

Otherwise simply repeating "The bible says the earth is flat" contributes nothing to this thread really does it?

I can't really discuss where you get the idea from without you telling me which quotes make you think it's saying the earth is flat. Since nowhere in the bible does it literally state so.

Sigh.. it doesn't say anything literally in the bible and if it does it's spun to mean something else, it'll always be manipulated to suit someones agenda it seems.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He did and I responded... do you have anything else to add, seeing as you've took it upon yourself to police the thread?

Who's policing? You're the one telling him where to direct his responses.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Sigh.. it doesn't say anything literally in the bible and if it does it's spun to mean something else, it'll always be manipulated to suit someones agenda it seems.

So you're not going to answer the question? Ok.

Lots of things are stated clearly in the bible. The earth being "flat" is not one of them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Who's policing? You're the one telling him where to direct his responses.

I put forward a suggestion, it wasn't an order.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So you're not going to answer the question? Ok.

Lots of things are stated clearly in the bible. The earth being "flat" is not one of them.

You've already decided the inference is too vague so there's not much point, as with much in the bible it's open to interpretation.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You've already decided the inference is too vague so there's not much point, as with much in the bible it's open to interpretation.

Yes, so I'm asking you to provide your interpretation.

But it seems to be too difficult for you to discuss points you raise so whatever.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes, so I'm asking you to provide your interpretation.

But it seems to be too difficult for you to discuss points you raise so whatever.

What would it matter what my interpretation is?

I didn't raise the flat earth point, I raised the point that it was known since the 6th century BC the earth was not flat.

My point being it wasn't proven after the scripture it was known beforehand, let's not have another sermon about it :/