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03-09-2017, 08:22 AM | #26 | ||
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I don't know what she's been saying but obviously Germany is strict with Nazi propaganda for obvious reasons. I suppose it's a fine line between conspiracy theory and being a Nazi sympathiser. |
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03-09-2017, 11:05 AM | #27 | |||
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Extremism doesn’t have to be seen wearing a swastika or a kkk uniform. It could be an old frail tin hat lady like the one we see here with her unrelative truths. Monsters don’t grow any less monstrous as they grow old and if this monster has a following… probably a growing one and uses lies, not facts with her believers, then she deserves to go to prison.
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03-09-2017, 11:10 AM | #28 | |||
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03-09-2017, 11:35 AM | #29 | |||
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It's not an 'opinion' it's a lie, there's a difference between the two, and with something like Holocaust denial it's important to acknowledge it as a lie because calling it an opinion demeans the truth of what happened, it suggests that it may not have happened, (the use of the word 'opinion' in that article makes their agenda - as well as that of this thread - pretty clear), and AProducer'sWetDream has made some excellent points as to why that's wrong and how damaging it can be. It's all well and good to trot out a "freedom of speech" and "yeah, but... jail?!" line, but whilst ignoring the reasoning given for her punishment and dressing her up as just an innocent historian investigating something, it makes these arguments in defence of her pretty thin. She hasn't been sent to jail for 'having a wrong opinion', she's been sent to jail for repeatedly promoting a dangerous and racist lie that seeks to defend/ignore the slaughter of 6 million people. Beyond disgusting and I've got no sympathy for the horrible old nazi at all.
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03-09-2017, 12:11 PM | #30 | |||
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We live in an age where truth and fact are constantly under assault; an age where truth is on the defensive. Most of us here have grown up in a world of where we believe everything is open to debate, but that’s not the case. There are certain things that are true and there are indisputable facts to back up that truth. The holocaust is an established fact. Holocaust deniers parade themselves under the guise of rational discourse, when the truth is, we can’t have a rational discourse about something that has been proven by hundreds of witnesses, survivors, material evidence and professional historians since the fall of the Nazi party.
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03-09-2017, 01:06 PM | #31 | ||
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She is aware of the law, it's her own fault for repeatedly breaking it in order to spread her hatred.
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03-09-2017, 03:14 PM | #32 | ||
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04-09-2017, 08:24 AM | #33 | ||
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No, truth. If someone posts something like this thread once, it can just be a random observation or comment. If they keep doing it repeatedly and often with the same underlying message, it becomes an agenda. This is the third or fourth time in the last short while that the same member has "just noticed" something that could be described as Nazi-sympathising.
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04-09-2017, 09:06 AM | #34 | |||
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04-09-2017, 11:27 AM | #35 | |||
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Good riddance bitch.
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04-09-2017, 11:29 AM | #36 | |||
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Me sending ha straight to the slammer
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04-09-2017, 05:39 PM | #37 | |||
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Fighting the PC Culture
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But I do like to point out the irony that those who see themselves as fighting Nazism are often in reality closer to being Nazis than they realize. I am fascinated how a thread like this can produce comment after comment of people expressing happiness that an 88 year old grandma is behind bars for daring to not have conventional beliefs. Today, the anti-fascists are the fascists.
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04-09-2017, 05:42 PM | #38 | ||
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04-09-2017, 05:47 PM | #39 | |||
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Downplaying the holocaust/the amount of victims killed by the Nazi's is plain disrespectful and insulting
The fact that she's been reprimanded previously makes me have zero sympathy for her. |
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04-09-2017, 09:55 PM | #40 | |||
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Fighting the PC Culture
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Last edited by Liberty4eva; 04-09-2017 at 09:57 PM. |
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04-09-2017, 09:57 PM | #41 | ||
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SD's slide into radicalisation is honestly distressing.
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04-09-2017, 10:19 PM | #42 | |||
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Fighting the PC Culture
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If you're going to have a "serious" debate forum it ought to have threads about serious stuff that makes some members uncomfortable. Although I recognize that some of my views are in the minority, I do appreciate that the TIBB staff allows people to express their views (for the most part).
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04-09-2017, 10:25 PM | #43 | |||
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All hail the Moyesiah
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Holocaust deniers always frame it as a free speech issue to distract from the real issue of them pushing a completely warped and discredited version of history to make their neo-Nazi ideology seem acceptable. Ask yourself why Holocaust deniers always come from the extreme right of the political spectrum? People do not arrive at holocaust denial through an honest appraisal of history, they do so because they are already set on an ideology and they dislike the fact they are burdened by its association with mass genocide
No one here is falling for your claim that you are merely interested in freedom of expression. If you want to support holocaust denial then do so but do not try and pretend that your only stake in this discussion is to uphold free speech |
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05-09-2017, 02:59 AM | #44 | |||
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Fighting the PC Culture
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Last edited by Liberty4eva; 05-09-2017 at 03:04 AM. |
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05-09-2017, 07:14 AM | #45 | ||
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His motives leave a question mark to be honest; the interviewer makes reference to "something he said a long time ago" and I suspect a bit of back pedaling is going on. You seem to not understand that there's a difference between this, and the "sweet old soul" in your OP, who quite openly expressed Nazi sympathies, admiration of Hitler, and outright denial that the holocaust even happened to any great extent. She is not questioning historical details, she is trying to deny and change history to fit a quite obviously sinister agenda. Learn to read between the lines. Last edited by Toy Soldier; 05-09-2017 at 07:16 AM. |
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05-09-2017, 09:04 AM | #46 | |||
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I Love my brick
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05-09-2017, 09:30 AM | #47 | |||
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You know my methods
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06-09-2017, 04:20 AM | #48 | |||
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Fighting the PC Culture
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The environment is so toxic towards anyone who questions the Holocaust that no historian (unless they have a backbone made of steel) is going to question any aspect of it because their careers will be damaged (often fatally) and they will have to spend time explaining how they are not a Nazi-sympathizer (as many on here claim I am). Nobody wants to put their careers and their families through that so no rational thinking person will ever question the Holocaust (at least publicly). Thus, without freedom of speech and an environment conducive towards finding the truth (whatever it is), we can never know for sure if the Holocaust happened. I'm offended by the "Denier" label. Would any atheist here like to be called a Resurrection Denier? Labels are a tactic by the establishment because anyone who questions the authoritative version of things needs a label (for 9/11 it was "Truthers"). A more accurate word for Holocaust questioning is "revisionist". People here are saying the reason why I posted this thread was to evoke nazi-sympathy. Far from it. But I am getting tired of defending that charge. If you are pro-Choice, does that make you pro-abortion? If the answer is no, then why can't you see that believing in freedom of speech for everyone (Nazi's included), does not make you a Nazi-sympathizer? I do post stuff on Nazism because it stirs the pot and gets people thinking. But I am always careful to say that I don't have Nazi sympathies. I'm against all atrocities committed in WW2 by the Nazis and the Allies. |
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06-09-2017, 07:07 AM | #49 | ||
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Yes but you have to realise that you can be against the actual actions of the Nazis and still be a sympathiser. In fact, that would be the line between a Nazi sympathiser and an actual Nazi?
As Chris Rock says in a stand up comedy routine about OJ Simpson; "Now I ain't saying he should have done it...... .... .... ... But, I understand!" Anyway. I personally have no problem with history being examined, and I full understand that official accounts of history - by nature - are rarely 100% accurate or the full story. The difference is when it's an attempt to lessen those crimes or make it seem like it "wasn't that bad really" or where there's a clear agenda to do so. This woman quite blatantly had that agenda; she doesn't just play down the scale of the atrocities, she asks people to overlook them and focus on the "good things" about Hitler. She was also alive during the war, if pretty young. But it only takes common bloody sense to realise that she - or her family - are very likely to have been full blood Hitler supporting Nazis, and she has spent her entire life trying to justify that. There is a huge gulf between refining the facts, and making excuses. If you really do consider yourself a revisionist who is simply after the truth, then you need to learn where to dig with precision, instead of steaming in with a bulldozer. Last edited by Toy Soldier; 06-09-2017 at 07:08 AM. |
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06-09-2017, 07:57 AM | #50 | |||
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All hail the Moyesiah
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The reason that Holocaust Deniers (I'm not going to use the term revisionist) are on the margins of history is because they push an agenda that is completely discredited and largely influenced by their own ideology. The historian who was probably taken most seriously prior to becoming a fully fledged holocaust denier was David Irving and his reputation was destroyed when it was proven that he had deliberately misrepresented and falsified facts in order to push his agenda. Yes history relies on people challenging the consensus but Holocaust denial does not form a part of any rational historical debate. The only ones who continue to believe in it are those who trap themselves in a bubble where they pretty much only read work and only watch documentaries which espouse holocaust denial and they never read anything that challenges it. |
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