[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I don't think the defining reason for anyone winning should be their sexuality. I just don't understand the hatred that seems to be directed at a housemate who is gay. It seems extreme to me, and not something I would expect in this day and age.

Can't it be the same reason people don't like any housemate

I didn't like Helen Wood or Bear or a lot of others

I took against Shane for his entrance and for his banging on and on about the same issues. Recently his going round the housemates didn't endear me to him either.

I also felt the same about India

I detest Andrew and never liked him from day1,

Didn't like Dapper again because in my opinion he was crude

None of my dislike for Shane was because he was gay. I disliked him as a person who happened to be Gay. His being gay was neither here nor there but his behaviour in the house was the contributing factor as to why I disliked him.

I dare say there are people dislike him for being gay, but he should not get away with his behaviour in the house by just being gay either.

I just wish people could forget their sexuality and just treat people as people.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

Can't it be the same reason people don't like any housemate

I didn't like Helen Wood or Bear or a lot of others

I took against Shane for his entrance and for his banging on and on about the same issues. Recently his going round the housemates didn't endear me to him either.

I also felt the same about India

I detest Andrew and never liked him from day1,

Didn't like Dapper again because in my opinion he was crude

None of my dislike for Shane was because he was gay. I disliked him as a person who happened to be Gay. His being gay was neither here nor there but his behaviour in the house was the contributing factor as to why I disliked him.

I dare say there are people dislike him for being gay, but he should not get away with his behaviour in the house by just being gay either.

I just wish people could forget their sexuality and just treat people as people.

Completely agree

[Robertocarlo]

Originally Posted by Underscore

Maybe we should be teaching children to stand up to bullies and stereotypes instead of cowering from them?

Exactly. I thought Courtney had a well thought out argument.

[Ammi]

...I don’t see how ShaneJ’s words with Wayne last night would be described as getting on his soapbox as if they were a negative in his character...he was just saying...it’s ok for you and I in our lives, Wayne but for many others it isn’t, and especially referring to younger people who are finding a struggle with being accepted...that’s a positive in his character that he thinks of others surely, rather than just think well I’m alright Jack, my life is great with my sexuality...I do understand that the housemates want to have a fun time as well to balance out their stay in the house and not always have more serious conversations etc...but then with Shane J it feels to me, that if he’s more serious in engaging discussions, it’s often met with disapproval and oh no, not again, why can’t you just have fun and be lighter...but then when he was lighter and more flirtatious and frivolous etc with Andrew ..the most ‘fun’ Shane, Ann showed such disapproval for that as well...so what’s a poor drag queen to do because whichever old way, it’s not really being approved of...anyway I liked his words with Wayne, they showed someone who looks beyond themselves and affects on their own life....I don’t know why we haven’t seen more of the discussions in a year that was meant to more go back to old time BB, when these conversations and interesting discussions were so much a part of it....

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Cause im not very sure little jonny from wherever going out dressed like that is a very good idea.


Stay safe kids.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Little Johnny can do as he wishes.

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

I firmly believe that you should allow a child to dress up how they like, allow them to express themselves. What's the harm in letting a little boy dress as a princess or a little girl as a pirate etc

...just going back to the OP and these posts...yeah, maybe you’re right Parmy and maybe little Johnny wouldn’t be safe in the world of today...but that’s the point though, I mean the point of Shane J’s soapbox as it were...little Johnny should be safe as Marsh has said and Amy has said, he should be able to have the same freedoms as anyone else to dress how wishes...but we haven’t reached there yet, have we...there are certain acceptances we haven’t reached so it’s not just saying or feeling ...oh some equalities have been given so let be that of that and all done now and all move on etc...Shane sees that, he understands that, he understands and sees little Johnny and the 14yr old little Johnnys of the future who should be able to say...I want to become a drag queen when I’m older and feel perfectly safe in openly saying that, not feeling any ‘threat’ from anyone around them.. Shane J not only sees and understands it all, but he speaks out to try to get understanding from others so that, we don’t stay in the past or the present of little Johnny being or feeling less safe as it were but try to aim to move forward to the future of that not being the case so much...

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...just going back to the OP and these posts...yeah, maybe you’re right Parmy and maybe little Johnny wouldn’t be safe in the world of today...but that’s the point though, I mean the point of Shane J’s soapbox as it were...little Johnny should be safe as Marsh has said and Amy has said, he should be able to have the same freedoms as anyone else to dress how wishes...but we haven’t reached there yet, have we...there are certain acceptances we haven’t reached so it’s not just saying or feeling ...oh some equalities have been given so let be that of that and all done now and all move on etc...Shane sees that, he understands that, he understands and sees little Johnny and the little Johnnys of the future but not only sees and understands, but he speaks out to try to get understanding from others so that, we don’t stay in the past or the present of little Johnny being less safe as it were but try to aim to move forward to the future of that not being the case so much...

Yes, exactly this.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Giving advice isnt telling someone..like i have said johnny can dress like he wants..so whats your personal issue mate...wanna take it to pm?

Literally every post you made is telling him how to dress, when the hell do you think you said he can dress like he wants!? You repeatedly said the opposite.

[thesheriff443]

On a side note, did any one see the picture of Lewis hamalton with his nephew in a princess dress that he brought him, clearly a pr stunt to try and dig himself out of the hole.

In London teenagers are killing one another for being in the wrong post code, argue all you want but it's not safe to be walking in some places all over country.

[Ammi]

..yeah I do totally agree, Sheriff...but I think what Shane J is trying to convey is...do we stick with that ‘not safe’ and say..ok, well that’s as far as it can go and that’s that of that, type thing...or do we look to and hope to progress to it becoming more safe in terms of acceptances.../...those places we haven’t reached yet ....he wants to look at those safer places of acceptance for little 14yr old Johnny of being able to openly say...I want to be a drag queen when I’m older and feel the same safety as if it had been any other form of entertainment, like an actor, a dancer, a musician etc...to break down any prejudices that might create a place of less safety as there still is in some cases and places right now in time...obviously being safe right here and right now for little Johnny is of absolute importance to all of us...but I also think that ShaneJ’s soapbox is essential as well...

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Withano

Literally every post you made is telling him how to dress, when the hell do you think you said he can dress like he wants!? You repeatedly said the opposite.

There you go...your hatred for me has clouded your mind....go have another look mikey.

[Oliver_W]

Meh, I don't like ShaneJ but I see his point.

As cringey as this is gonna sound - sometimes, young LGBT people need to be told "you're okay kid"

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I'm glad you don't hate him - nobody is perfect and every individual behaves in a way others don't agree with at times, but that doesn't mean they deserve hate. I just seem to be seeing a lot of hatred on here at the moment, and it deters me from taking part in discussions.

I don't think he necessarily just meant Ann but views like hers in general. A 14 year old boy struggling with his sexuality is going to make decisions on whether or not he can be himself by listening to the views of people he encounters, whether in person or through the media, and could feel reluctant to be himself if he hears views like Ann's.

I think all Shane was saying is that those sort of views could have a detrimental impact on a young gay person's life, and in my opinion he's not wrong in that as it's a very valid point.

I don't doubt the point was valid, I just felt it wasn't the time or place, they were all having a nice time, final 5 they all deserve their place, let the best HM win now, there is no need at this point of the show to continue to denigrate Ann, I feel at times he cares more about winning than anything else

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Some something comment about you being there watching the editing take place something something.

As for the bolded point, this is an attitude that annoys me. 'Oh look at him, talking about issues that don't affect me ugh!'.

They dont effect shane either.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

I firmly believe that you should allow a child to dress up how they like, allow them to express themselves. What's the harm in letting a little boy dress as a princess or a little girl as a pirate etc

and when you have kids get back to us

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

On a side note, did any one see the picture of Lewis hamalton with his nephew in a princess dress that he brought him, clearly a pr stunt to try and dig himself out of the hole.

In London teenagers are killing one another for being in the wrong post code, argue all you want but it's not safe to be walking in some places all over country.

yes it was a pathetic stunt

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah I do totally agree, Sheriff...but I think what Shane J is trying to convey is...do we stick with that ‘not safe’ and say..ok, well that’s as far as it can go and that’s that of that, type thing...or do we look to and hope to progress to it becoming more safe in terms of acceptances.../...those places we haven’t reached yet ....he wants to look at those safer places of acceptance for little 14yr old Johnny of being able to openly say...I want to be a drag queen when I’m older and feel the same safety as if it had been any other form of entertainment, like an actor, a dancer, a musician etc...to break down any prejudices that might create a place of less safety as there still is in some cases and places right now in time...obviously being safe right here and right now for little Johnny is of absolute importance to all of us...but I also think that ShaneJ’s soapbox is essential as well...

I agree ammi, every one should be able to live in society as they choose but in reality it's not safe to do that in this country for the most part and that's not going to change for a long time sadly

We have no where near got to grips with the issues of racism and sexism, but gay marriages being made legal was a big step in accepting the gay comunity.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I don’t see how ShaneJ’s words with Wayne last night would be described as getting on his soapbox as if they were a negative in his character...he was just saying...it’s ok for you and I in our lives, Wayne but for many others it isn’t, and especially referring to younger people who are finding a struggle with being accepted...that’s a positive in his character that he thinks of others surely, rather than just think well I’m alright Jack, my life is great with my sexuality...I do understand that the housemates want to have a fun time as well to balance out their stay in the house and not always have more serious conversations etc...but then with Shane J it feels to me, that if he’s more serious in engaging discussions, it’s often met with disapproval and oh no, not again, why can’t you just have fun and be lighter...but then when he was lighter and more flirtatious and frivolous etc with Andrew ..the most ‘fun’ Shane, Ann showed such disapproval for that as well...so what’s a poor drag queen to do because whichever old way, it’s not really being approved of...anyway I liked his words with Wayne, they showed someone who looks beyond themselves and affects on their own life....I don’t know why we haven’t seen more of the discussions in a year that was meant to more go back to old time BB, when these conversations and interesting discussions were so much a part of it....

One of the most inspirational posts I've ever read in here.

This is something I have liked as to Shane J,from the start.

His looking out for and with others.
I found this talk interesting and just about all his points valid.

Also as you state,his more fun times get derided too.
I just warmed even more towards him last night on the highlights in that chat with Wayne.
For me it just wasn't long enough.

I really see little to genuinely criticise Shane J for in this series.
For me,as with some of the others too,one of the best things about this series,has been being able to learn more as to Shane J.

Your posts on this Ammi, are both a tonic and so refreshing to come across.
I for one,thank you for them.

[Alf]

Saint Shane J

[Alf]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

One of the most inspirational posts I've ever read in here.

This is somethingbI have liked as to Shane J,from the start.

His looking out for and with others.
I found this talk interesting and just about all his points valid.

Also as you state,his more fun times get derided too.
I just warmed even more towards him last night on the highlights in that chat with Wayne.
For me it just wasn't long enough.

I really see little to genuinely criticise Shane J for in this series.
For me,as with some of the others too,one of the best things about this series,has been being able to learn more as to Shane J.

Your posts on this Ammi, are both a tonic and so refreshing to come across.
I for one,thank you for them.

[LeatherTrumpet]

I think most people can see that there is a middle ground between monotonous monologues on the same sanctimonious subjects night after night and scissoring on the floor grunting

[bitontheslide]

what people seem to miss is that kids in their peer group take very little notice of their parents or teachers. If they want to make fun of little jonny for whatever reason, they will. They are not bound by rules surrounding appropriate behaviour. Kids that don't conform in whatever aspect will be made fun of or will be bullied. That won't change

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Alf

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

what people seem to miss is that kids in their peer group take very little notice of their parents or teachers. If they want to make fun of little jonny for whatever reason, they will. They are not bound by rules surrounding appropriate behaviour. Kids that don't conform in whatever aspect will be made fun of or will be bullied. That won't change

I wonder how many young Tibbers are crying into their soup over Ann Widdicombes views, the over reactions are laughable

[chuff me dizzy]

Silly Bollox has surely put people off coming out, they must think "Jesus will I end up as bitter and twisted as him if someone doesn't agree with all I say ?" and end up locked in the closet forever !

He doing himself no favours by claiming to be in there for every gay in the world, when everyone knows he's in there for HIMSELF and is using gay people to get what he wants

[Alf]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Silly Bollox has surely put people off coming out, they must think "Jesus will I end up as bitter and twisted as him if someone doesn't agree with all I say ?" and end up locked in the closet forever !

He doing himself no favours by claiming to be in there for every gay in the world, when everyone knows he's in there for HIMSELF and is using gay people to get what he wants

A new wardrobe.