[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Scott

why do people always blame stuff like this on the parents plenty of kids have an even worse upbringing and would never do something like this

This,the boy is just a psycho,no looking into his background just punish the bastard.

[MTVN]

It's pretty obvious though, that children are going to be far more prone to crime if they've had a bad childhood than a good one, it's not just a coincidence; these are the most susceptible years in a persons life

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

thats still no excuse
people saying he needs 'help' kmt how would you feel if he did this to your grandmother

[King Gizzard]

Agree exactly with MTVN's post. Tragic. We are who we are because of how are parents bring us up

However calling for him to be executed is laughable. Capital punishment on the whole is laughable.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Agree exactly with MTVN's post. Tragic. We are who we are because of how are parents bring us up

However calling for him to be executed is laughable. Capital punishment on the whole is laughable.

Not for killers it's not,but how about have one of the prisoners give this boy an eye for an eye,see how he likes it when it's done back to him.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Scott

thats still no excuse
people saying he needs 'help' kmt how would you feel if he did this to your grandmother

Yeah, bad background or not, if he had done this to my grandma, the only help he would need would be with drinking his meals through a straw.

[InOne]

He needs to be away from our society for a long long time, possibly forever. If he's doing things like that at 14 I doubt he can be changed or even come to feel remorse.

[lily.]

I fully agree with Lee.. I'd do away with the wee b@stard if it were my gran for example...

But, in terms of what should be done with him by the legal system, I think he ought to be 'held' for a long time... not necessarily in prison.. perhaps in a secure psychiatric unit. He's clearly disturbed. Dangerous criminals like him need to be kept away from the general public as the chance of him re-offending is very high. The first priority should be the safety of others, then his needs can be taken into consideration after that.

[Ammi]

I don't know if this is a good comparison, but I'm thinking of one of Jamie Bulger's killers, Jon Venables..who is now back in prison for child pornography. I'm no convinced that children who commit these hideous crimes can be reformed. Their age and the nature of their crimes is an indication of a severely damaged mind. Of course it is sad that any parent could neglect their child's emotional well being to such an extent...but I doubt the damage can ever be undone and this boy is a danger and threat to society. I would rather he were 'hospitilised' than imprisoned, and I think it would take a lot longer than 2 years to even come close to healing him.

[Harry!]

Typically he will serve half his sentence, be bailed out, and given a new identity and have a life paid for by the taxpayers because an enployer will not want him.

[Livia]

Cut his c*ck off. Do it with all rapists. Actually... you'd only have to do it to one of them.

[Doogle]

Needs to be castrated, dirty wanker.

That poor woman, no one deserves to go through that. And I agree with Lily, the fact it was anally makes it somehow worse.

[Shasown]

Hopefully by the time this little piece of crap is released from prison, enforced chemical castration for all paedophiles and rapists has been brought onto the statute books.

[Jack_]

I'm sorry but there's some utterly barbaric suggestions being thrown about with out any care or thought whatsoever in this thread.

Those who suggest capital punishment, someone to rape him or anything of the like are just as bad as the guy himself and you are lowering yourself to his disgusting actions. Yes, we all know this is a truly revolting crime, and the punishment should be a lot harsher, but why is it that everyone is always so quick to jump up and call out for some of the most oddest, hypocritical punishments possible...it's like some sort of mob.

I agree with whoever said he needs to be kept away to protect the public's safety for as long as possible though, these types of issues don't go away overnight.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I agree with whoever said he needs to be kept away to protect the public's safety for as long as possible though, these types of issues don't go away overnight.

"Keeping people away" costs the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds a year - in an age of austerity, "disposal" of violent criminal offenders makes financial sense .....

[Tom4784]

I'm glad that half the people in this thread ranting about violent punishments will never know a lick of power. If you fight fire with fire everyone ends up getting burned.

The law only works when it's held to a higher standard then the people it's judging, if any of the punishments people reccommended were actually implemented then how would that make us any better then criminals? The only difference between would be a misplaced sense of self righteousness.

You can always tell what a person is like by how they treat their lessers, not their equals.

Originally Posted by Omah

"Keeping people away" costs the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds a year - in an age of austerity, "disposal" of violent criminal offenders makes financial sense .....

It's a special kind of evil that would extinguish a life just for the sake of money when other options are readily available.


As I said before, if it as upto me I'd give him a longer sentence but would have made sure he got some sort of psychological care so that he's not a danger to anyone else when he is eventually released.

[Lee.]

Dezzy, I'm a very forgiving person and always try to see good in people and I do think people are entitled to a fair hearing, but are you honestly saying you wouldn't feel vengeance if your own grandma was forcefully buggered by some evil little bastard?

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm glad that half the people in this thread ranting about violent punishments will never know a lick of power. If you fight fire with fire everyone ends up getting burned.

OTOH, getting "touchy-feely" with psychotic sex-offenders is misguided, naive and futile .....

The law only works when it's held to a higher standard then the people it's judging, if any of the punishments people reccommended were actually implemented then how would that make us any better then criminals? The only difference between would be a misplaced sense of self righteousness.

IMO, it's a question of economics not misplaced idealism and morality .....

You can always tell what a person is like by how they treat their lessers, not their equals.

What about their "betters"?

It's a special kind of evil that would extinguish a life just for the sake of money when other options are readily available.

The resources for the "other options" would be better used for law-abiding citizens .....

Originally Posted by Dezzy

As I said before, if it as upto me I'd give him a longer sentence but would have made sure he got some sort of psychological care so that he's not a danger to anyone else when he is eventually released.

Why waste money on violent criminals who will never change ?

It would be better spent on the casualties of war .....

[MeMyselfAndI]

What a vile person, He'll never get better, might aswell get rid of it

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i think if he does get help and he is 'cured' of whatever the **** is wrong with him the guilt of what he has done will be unbearable and he will have to live with that for the rest of his life which when you think about it, is punishment enough

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Dezzy, I'm a very forgiving person and always try to see good in people and I do think people are entitled to a fair hearing, but are you honestly saying you wouldn't feel vengeance if your own grandma was forcefully buggered by some evil little bastard?

This isn't about me, iif you want to have a discussion about crime and punishment you have to put your emotions to one side otherwise your points will always be tainted by your emotional response.

Originally Posted by Omah

OTOH, getting "touchy-feely" with psychotic sex-offenders is misguided, naive and futile .....

I see, just because I don't share your, quite frankly disturbing, bloodlust I must be some sort of soft type who goes around hugging rapists and murderers.

Good logic.

Originally Posted by Omah

IMO, it's a question of economics not misplaced idealism and morality .....

Okay then let's live in your proposed world for a moment, in order to save money we kill the most vile of criminals, we then decide to save more money by then killing thieves, thugs, people with parking tickets ETC. If the Law is ruled by finance then it'll ultimately be ruled by greed in the end.

Originally Posted by Omah

What about their "betters"?

But what about the Better's lesser's equals?

It's not difficult to throw out some cryptic meaningless crap to avoid a point.

Originally Posted by Omah

The resources for the "other options" would be better used for law-abiding citizens .....

Because it's cheaper to simply imprison criminals? Your whole point about executions being a better option financially is ultimately flawed. In America it costs a lot more to execute someone then it would to imprison them since you have to go through years of appeals and court actions before you can execute anyone. It's cheaper to simply imprison someone and try to rehabilitate them so they aren't a danger to the public when (or if) they are released.

Originally Posted by Omah

Why waste money on violent criminals who will never change ?

Like I said before it'd be a bigger waste of money to execute them. If you're going to imprison someone it's worth trying to rehabilitate them since it's better to try and fail then not to try at all. Not every Jail sentence is permanent so what's the problem in trying to rehabilitate someone so they aren't a danger to the public when they are released?

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I see, just because I don't share your, quite frankly disturbing, bloodlust I must be some sort of soft type who goes around hugging rapists and murderers.

Good logic.

I don't share your, quite frankly, unsettling naivety - I have no doubt that you are capable of "hugging rapists and murderers" .....

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Okay then let's live in your proposed world for a moment, in order to save money we kill the most vile of criminals, we then decide to save more money by then killing thieves, thugs, people with parking tickets ETC. If the Law is ruled by finance then it'll ultimately be ruled by greed in the end.

What "proposed world" ?

Ofcouse, you are free to dramatise ..... but the law is ruled by finance - property is more important than people - "it's the rich wot gets the pleasure, it's the poor wot gets the blame" - robbing banks gets you locked up, but robber bankers grow fat on your cash .....

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because it's cheaper to simply imprison criminals? Your whole point about executions being a better option financially is ultimately flawed. In America it costs a lot more to execute someone then it would to imprison them since you have to go through years of appeals and court actions before you can execute anyone. It's cheaper to simply imprison someone and try to rehabilitate them so they aren't a danger to the public when (or if) they are released.

This is NOT America (or even the USA) ..... so your point does not apply .....

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Like I said before it'd be a bigger waste of money to execute them. If you're going to imprison someone it's worth trying to rehabilitate them since it's better to try and fail then not to try at all. Not every Jail sentence is permanent so what's the problem in trying to rehabilitate someone so they aren't a danger to the public when they are released?

Ah, the old Christian Victorian "reformer" argument ..... it never worked and it never will - prisons have always been "schools" for villains, nowadays they're "colleges" for religious fundamentalists, too .....

I'll do some research on the cost of the criminal rehabilitation system in England and establish the actual success/failure rates ..... I have no doubt that the results will be interesting .....

[arista]

Originally Posted by Omah

"Keeping people away" costs the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds a year - in an age of austerity, "disposal" of violent criminal offenders makes financial sense .....

Yes lots of things Do.
But we have No Death Penalty in the UK.


You talk like a Terminator Film Script.

[Livia]

People get angry when they read stuff like this. They get angrier still knowing that there is always a bunch of people hand-wringing and telling us we must be better than the scum that commit crime like this, and implying that they are so much more reasonable than people who want punishments to be harsh and fast. Unfortunately, the person responsible for this terrible crime will be treated with kid gloves and the system will bend over backwards to make sure his human rights are not violated. It's a pity htat the people already worrying about this criminal's treatment don't hold the same sort of high principles when it comes to giving some sympathy to the victim. It's easy to moralise when your life is unaffected by violent, senseless crime.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Livia

People get angry when they read stuff like this. They get angrier still knowing that there is always a bunch of people hand-wringing and telling us we must be better than the scum that commit crime like this, and implying that they are so much more reasonable than people who want punishments to be harsh and fast. Unfortunately, the person responsible for this terrible crime will be treated with kid gloves and the system will bend over backwards to make sure his human rights are not violated. It's a pity htat the people already worrying about this criminal's treatment don't hold the same sort of high principles when it comes to giving some sympathy to the victim. It's easy to moralise when your life is unaffected by violent, senseless crime.

I am always conflicted with stories like this because a family member has been a victim of violence but I also work with young people and see how damaged a child can become by their parent's life choices and their environment. However unfair to the child that may be, the damage is a fact and when it has these type of results, it is often doubtful that it can ever be undone...so I would never, ever wish for that person to be let back into society when there was any uncertainty whatsoever to their mental state. That's not something I have the solution to as there is quite simpy not enough funding. You are correct, if this was my grandmother I know my gut instinct would be very different indeed, but it would be based on a personal and emotional feeling....it would be there of course, and it would rule all other feelings in me....but that doesn't mean it would be right. Emotional reactions very rarely are