[Kizzy]

I agree Joey he's shrewd and calculating, he's been biding his time waiting to get a foothold... my god it just gets worse! :/

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Top Press Preview 10:30PM
on SkyNewsHD ,who unlike BBC news 15mins, do a full 25mins
Kevin Maguire (Daily Mirror Assoc . Editor)
and
Andrew Pierce (Daily Mail Assit . Editor)

I cannot stand either of those 2, I always go to BBC when these 2 are doing the press review on Sky.

[arista]

[DemolitionRed]

Great for exporters, not so good for importers. Its suspect that this has happened within 24 hours of Johnson's announcement.

[Livia]

We import and export more outside the EU than we do inside the EU. The USA is probably our major market, a country with whom we share a common language (well, kind of...). People say we're stronger as a part of a larger unit and that's true... because we're already a part of a large, successful, functioning unit: The Commonwealth.

[Cherie]

So let me get this straight Boris wants a no vote so we can renegotiate a better deal and what then?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So let me get this straight Boris wants a no vote so we can renegotiate a better deal and what then?

That was a silly newspaper version.


Voting Out is just that
More Control
Better World Business
No More Europe Corruption

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

We import and export more outside the EU than we do inside the EU. The USA is probably our major market, a country with whom we share a common language (well, kind of...). People say we're stronger as a part of a larger unit and that's true... because we're already a part of a large, successful, functioning unit: The Commonwealth.

I'm with you

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

We import and export more outside the EU than we do inside the EU. The USA is probably our major market, a country with whom we share a common language (well, kind of...). People say we're stronger as a part of a larger unit and that's true... because we're already a part of a large, successful, functioning unit: The Commonwealth.

That may be a highly successful route to take no doubt but 'may be' is the term,the certainty is not there.

Canada is trying to get a deal with the EU,the USA has made it clear it wants the UK to remain in the EU and the biggest of the Commonwealth Nations, India, also prefers the UK in the EU too.

[DemolitionRed]

The document I've posted makes it is clear that 'Parliamentary Outers' are not giving the full facts on how they are going to achieve trade deals.

Jean-Claude PIRIS, Consultant for EU Law and International Public Law.
http://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/doc/.../qe-355-en.pdf

[bitontheslide]

For me,so far, the arguments for in/out have not been convincing at all. Some of the MP's are trying to feign passion in their speeches, others really don't give a crap. Corbyn's speech was hilarious. Recited from a piece of paper with the passion of piece of wet lettuce. The prime minister doesn't give a crap, Boris the buffoon spouts all sorts of meaningless drivel, and the rest just outright lie. Personally, it's shaping up to be the biggest non event in my lifetime with opposite sides arguing for the sake of it, with no conviction at all.

[Kizzy]

He wants in but he's saying he wants out because he thinks that'll get him more votes in the next leadership election....sigh.

[MTVN]

Eurosceptics quoting people like Tony Benn and Galloway one minute and Farage the next, if anyone is undecided surely seeing these two as bedfellows is enough to convince them to vote In

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

For me,so far, the arguments for in/out have not been convincing at all. Some of the MP's are trying to feign passion in their speeches, others really don't give a crap. Corbyn's speech was hilarious. Recited from a piece of paper with the passion of piece of wet lettuce. The prime minister doesn't give a crap, Boris the buffoon spouts all sorts of meaningless drivel, and the rest just outright lie. Personally, it's shaping up to be the biggest non event in my lifetime with opposite sides arguing for the sake of it, with no conviction at all.

I'm surprised you think that actually, I take almost the opposite view. I think this is one issue which does genuinely evoke passion in MPs and really test both their ideology and their personal loyalties. Gove's statement was the most nuanced and optimistic argument I have heard for leaving the EU while I think Cameron gave the speech of his life in the Commons yesterday in favour of it.

A lot of people are dreading three months of the EU dominating the news - I'm looking forward to it, it's going to be great

[MTVN]

Have also added a poll to this thread to see what people think. It will close in two months time after which I'll open another one so we can see how opinion changes and see if any undecideds make their mind up. Complete transparency on TiBB as always, no voter privacy

[Cherie]

Undecided but leaning towards staying in..

[joeysteele]

Remain in solidly for me.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Definitely IN.

[Kizzy]

In.

[kirklancaster]

I am simply amazed to see the 'Left' leaning 'Labour' supporters on here voting 'IN'.

Anyway, first things first:

Cameron came away from his 'EU dinner' with a big fat 'ZERO', and I do not understand the ballyhoo and cries of triumph from the 'IN CROWD'.

I will not go into analysis of the 'non deal' itself because I have not time, but NOTHING which Cameron claims to have 'won' is legally binding, and has no credence in actual EU law.

There is a huge gulf in meaning between a 'commitment' and a 'clarification' and an 'agreement', and everything which Cameron so dishonestly claims as a 'victory' is nothing more than a series of 'promises' which totally rely on being 'honoured' at some later date by FUTURE leaders (not necessarily the ones MAKING these promises) IF they are ALL in agreement, and which, in any event, can be overruled by The European Court of Justice AND the European Parliament.

Cameron has nothing more than a 'Letter of Intent' for those who understand business parlance, and it is nothing more than the result of a lot of 'Behind Closed Doors' political gerrymandering by he, Merkels, Tusk, and other 'self-interested' corrupt bastards to come up with a solution which will 'con' the UK electorate that we 'have a better deal' from our 'Overlords' in Brussels in order to persuade them to vote to remain in, whilst actually giving us nothing.

And do we trust the EU to honour its 'Letter of Intent' - because they have renaged on their promises to other UK Leaders before - and the very fact that Merkels says of Cameron's 'Victories' that they "May never happen" and that Hollande says of the same, that; "there was “no revision of the treaties planned” is enough to not only answer that question, but also tell anyone just what Cameron actually 'WON' in truth.


And the fact that our PRIME MINISTER had to obsequiously commit to a 'Grovelling Tour' of the the other EU Member 'States' to arse-lick and beg for their support PRIOR to his non-event 'Dinner', is enough to tell anyone all they need to know about BRITISH SOVEREIGNTY under our membership of the EU.

OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by wannashag

I'm not a Eurosceptic, there's nothing wrong with Europe. I'm a European Union sceptic, because I believe in democracy, which we don't get with the EU.

Nigel Farage actually does talk quite a bit of sense given the chance, Galloway however, I'm no fan of, but happen to be on the same side on this issue.

Well said.

[bitontheslide]

I voted for the status quo because the arguments so far have just been completely over egged from either side with no basis in reality or consideration of facts.

However, i could be convinced to vote no if it meant an end to Nigel Farage and UKIP

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am simply amazed to see the 'Left' leaning 'Labour' supporters on here voting 'IN'.

Anyway, first things first:

Cameron came away from his 'EU dinner' with a big fat 'ZERO', and I do not understand the ballyhoo and cries of triumph from the 'IN CROWD'.

I will not go into analysis of the 'non deal' itself because I have not time, but NOTHING which Cameron claims to have 'won' is legally binding, and has no credence in actual EU law.

There is a huge gulf in meaning between a 'commitment' and a 'clarification' and an 'agreement', and everything which Cameron so dishonestly claims as a 'victory' is nothing more than a series of 'promises' which totally rely on being 'honoured' at some later date by FUTURE leaders (not necessarily the ones MAKING these promises) IF they are ALL in agreement, and which, in any event, can be overruled by The European Court of Justice AND the European Parliament.

Cameron has nothing more than a 'Letter of Intent' for those who understand business parlance, and it is nothing more than the result of a lot of 'Behind Closed Doors' political gerrymandering by he, Merkels, Tusk, and other 'self-interested' corrupt bastards to come up with a solution which will 'con' the UK electorate that we 'have a better deal' from our 'Overlords' in Brussels in order to persuade them to vote to remain in, whilst actually giving us nothing.

And do we trust the EU to honour its 'Letter of Intent' - because they have renaged on their promises to other UK Leaders before - and the very fact that Merkels says of Cameron's 'Victories' that they "May never happen" and that Hollande says of the same, that; "there was “no revision of the treaties planned” is enough to not only answer that question, but also tell anyone just what Cameron actually 'WON' in truth.


And the fact that our PRIME MINISTER had to obsequiously commit to a 'Grovelling Tour' of the the other EU Member 'States' to arse-lick and beg for their support PRIOR to his non-event 'Dinner', is enough to tell anyone all they need to know about BRITISH SOVEREIGNTY under our membership of the EU.

OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT

It was out of etiquette and respect that Cameron went to all the other Nations to sound them out on what he was hoping to get.
Duty called he had to do that.

I have no liking for the man as a politician but I think you are unfair to say he grovelled,he did the opposite, even they described him in the end as a tough negotiator.
I'd agree with that on this.

He could have easily got up and said, right, the UK will not go for what you are offering and then leave it at that.
he didn't he stood his ground and 'forced, yes forced a deal from them in the end, not by grovelling but by real debate and compromise.

By the way, up until I was 20, I was a more Conservative supporter, probably more of my life has been as one.
even then as now,I have always been a supporter of being in the EU.

It is not about being right or left on here voting one way or another,many Conservative voters will vote to stay in, even some Lib Dems,what is left of them, may vote to come out.
Nothing left or right about the issue,just a serious choice to make and I know and have explained why I have made mine without getting at people on the left, right or centre for any reason.

[Suze]

Out.

[joeysteele]

I find Priti Patel very condescending at the best of times,again I disagree more than I agee with her on this too.

Anyway India has expressed its wish for the UK to remain in the EU.