[Kizzy]

We have been asking for information for months so it's about time we got some though isn't it?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We have been asking for information for months so it's about time we got some though isn't it?

not propaganda , though


It needed a note for the out of E. U.
to be fair.

[Cherie]

Apparently the justification is we needed to know what the government felt on the issue given they don't all agree will the other half spend anther 9 million on telling us how they feel

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Okay well that makes more sense thanks Kirk

Yes Kirk knows this is Propaganda

Its Wrong

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by arista

not propaganda , though


It needed a note for the out of E. U.
to be fair.

but its in support of the EU, why would they. You don't get a note on labour leaflets in an election saying how good the conservatives are

The out campaign will be able to do their own stuff when they actually manage to speak with one voice rather than the mess that it is now

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

but its in support of the EU, why would they. You don't get a note on labour leaflets in an election saying how good the conservatives are

The out campaign will be able to do their own stuff when they actually manage to speak with one voice rather than the mess that it is now

Sure.

But put 2 leaflets in there
(many wanted that on TV and Radio shows today)

[joeysteele]

This is an odd one but I guess it will be expected to be put under 'govt information' since the present govt is recommending staying in.

I have strongly disagreed and do disagree with those advocating 'out' on this thread but I certainly share their rightful annoyance,indeed fury and disbelief at the funding used for this pamphlet.
I would like to know, and think we all should be told, if this will be classed fully as part of the 'in' funding or is this going to be manipulated into being a 'special information case'.

No matter what side I am on on any issue,I believe in as equal and as fair battle and funding between opposing sides as there can be.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This is an odd one but I guess it will be expected to be put under 'govt information' since the present govt is recommending staying in.

I have strongly disagreed and do disagree with those advocating 'out' on this thread but I certainly share their rightful annoyance,indeed fury and disbelief at the funding used for this pamphlet.
I would like to know, and think we all should be told, if this will be classed fully as part of the 'in' funding or is this going to be manipulated into being a 'special information case'.

No matter what side I am on on any issue,I believe in as equal and as fair battle and funding between opposing sides as there can be.

Respect.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This is an odd one but I guess it will be expected to be put under 'govt information' since the present govt is recommending staying in.

I have strongly disagreed and do disagree with those advocating 'out' on this thread but I certainly share their rightful annoyance,indeed fury and disbelief at the funding used for this pamphlet.
I would like to know, and think we all should be told, if this will be classed fully as part of the 'in' funding or is this going to be manipulated into being a 'special information case'.

No matter what side I am on on any issue,I believe in as equal and as fair battle and funding between opposing sides as there can be.

I would agree if the government were in agreement but given they aren't it is a total farce to practically double the funding for the in campaign. Apparently this happened as well during the Scottish yes/no vote and it was agreed afterwards that this was unfair practice, that agreement didn't last long

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I would agree if the government were in agreement but given they aren't it is a total farce to practically double the funding for the in campaign. Apparently this happened as well during the Scottish yes/no vote and it was agreed afterwards that this was unfair practice, that agreement didn't last long

The majority of the govt are in favour of staying in however and in any vote in Parliament the overwhelming result would be to remain in as to all parties.
So I guess they can claim that ground as to the govt supporting and recommending staying in.

This pamphlet however has needs to be explained far better than it has so far and how it affects or doesn't affect future spending on the EU issue especially as to the 'in' organisation.

I doubt it will,despite the cost of it all, be even that much assistance to undecided voters anyway.

[bitontheslide]

with regard to the funding limits, there are rules and regulations that come into play a certain time period before a vote (the same applies to general elections) In this case, the spending limits come into play for the 10 weeks preceding the voting day, which comes into effect next week, not now, so either side can, at the present time, spend without that restriction.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

with regard to the funding limits, there are rules and regulations that come into play a certain time period before a vote (the same applies to general elections) In this case, the spending limits come into play for the 10 weeks preceding the voting day, which comes into effect next week, not now, so either side can, at the present time, spend without that restriction.

Let give the out vote access to public funds as well then, even things up a little

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Let give the out vote access to public funds as well then, even things up a little

There are plenty high profile out campers with a few quid. 8 million would not be a problem.

The issue is that the out camp are not a consolidated group, they all have their own agendas/reasons for being out and can't get along with each other. Its an absolutely crazy referendum really

I've also come to the conclusion that whether we are in or out will have little relevance to me and my family. Swings and roundabouts I think.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

There are plenty high profile out campers with a few quid. 8 million would not be a problem.

The issue is that the out camp are not a consolidated group, they all have their own agendas/reasons for being out and can't get along with each other. Its an absolutely crazy referendum really

I've also come to the conclusion that whether we are in or out will have little relevance to me and my family. Swings and roundabouts I think.

Why's that, are you moving to a pineapple under the sea?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

There are plenty high profile out campers with a few quid. 8 million would not be a problem.

The issue is that the out camp are not a consolidated group, they all have their own agendas/reasons for being out and can't get along with each other. Its an absolutely crazy referendum really

I've also come to the conclusion that whether we are in or out will have little relevance to me and my family. Swings and roundabouts I think.

I feel the same about in or out at the moment, that said why should the out vote put their hand in their pocket when there is public money up for grabs

[bitontheslide]

For me, the argument that we will be more in control and better off out of europe, are nice words that are more difficult to implement in reality than they are in theory. We will still need to trade with the same people, to the same standards that we have been, or we simply won't be able to trade.

Also, from a "whats important in life to my family perspective", the EU basically is some idealists vision. It may be a nice vision, but on a day to day basis, I couldn't care less about the vision. The EU is a monolithic structure that takes huge inertia to move 1 single cm. The UK is known for its ability to adapt to circumstances rapidly, that's what its good at, and the EU is restricting that capability

On balance, I'm not fussed what the referendum result is. I think the majority of people are in the same boat. That's why the arguments for and against have been so mediocre, because deep down, most people don't really care and if there is no real passion to be part of a larger EU, then we quite simply shouldn't be in it.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

For me, the argument that we will be more in control and better off out of europe, are nice words that are more difficult to implement in reality than they are in theory. We will still need to trade with the same people, to the same standards that we have been, or we simply won't be able to trade.

Also, from a "whats important in life to my family perspective", the EU basically is some idealists vision. It may be a nice vision, but on a day to day basis, I couldn't care less about the vision. The EU is a monolithic structure that takes huge inertia to move 1 single cm. The UK is known for its ability to adapt to circumstances rapidly, that's what its good at, and the EU is restricting that capability

On balance, I'm not fussed what the referendum result is. I think the majority of people are in the same boat. That's why the arguments for and against have been so mediocre, because deep down, most people don't really care and if there is no real passion to be part of a larger EU, then we quite simply shouldn't be in it.

I have to concede that is what I am finding more and more when talking to people undecided, they don't really care and have already lost what little interest they may have had because of much of the way the campaign is going.

[arista]

"I have to concede that is what I am finding more and more when talking to people undecided,"


Yes Joey
Live 2 hour TV debates are needed
with In and Out on a panel
with Public seated

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

"I have to concede that is what I am finding more and more when talking to people undecided,"


Yes Joey
Live 2 hour TV debates are needed
with In and Out on a panel
with Public seated

Definitely.I agree.

If this keeps up the way it is, there will likely be a poor turnout and I find those wanting to leave being the ones who will rush out to vote too.

This is turning into a real mess,it should have been constructive arguments as to both sides and nothing other than proven factual information presented.

All the hostility is simply turning more off, that is not a bad thing that people listening are turned off by the 2 sides hostility to each other, however if that doesn't stop then this referendum will be a poor show as to those actually bothering to vote in it I fear.

[Kizzy]

Debates are ok but remember the 'plants' from the GE?

[DemolitionRed]

That little Ł9 'remain' booklet will soon be in every families hands https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ion-for-the-uk From a quick study of the booklet it seems to be mainly based on assumptions and estimates and any fact has quite tenuous links.

[arista]

Yes DR Ł10Million
for Propaganda Tosh

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

That little Ł9 'remain' booklet will soon be in every families hands https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ion-for-the-uk From a quick study of the booklet it seems to be mainly based on assumptions and estimates and any fact has quite tenuous links.

Were you expecting something factual and coherant...from dave?
That said it would be hard to have anything concrete on life outside the EU as the impact can't be that accurately predicted.
I did read that the brexit uncertainty had sent the Ł to a 7yr low, or as it was during the worldwide recession.

[joeysteele]

There does not in any way need to be any propaganda or false info issued at all.

This is why I am as annoyed wt the 'in' campaign as I am at the 'out' one.

The EU has many flaws and problems attached to being in it,many things the UK govts should have been and should seek to change and help fully reform,with more and more Nations joining that should be easier to do not harder.
Then list the benefits of the EU as they are balancing it with the full nett cots to the UK of being in it too.

That's it, no need or scaremongering or any manipulating of costs and conditions while being in, just plain facts.

As to the 'out' organisations, I have said it many times here and won;t go into it again, all they needed to do was also stick to facts and outline even approximately what costs, tariffs and conditions we would likely have to have to get a trading deal that was good with the EU and also indeed with the Nations we will need to outside the EU too.

Why the attempts to just confuse, scare and put off more those who will need to vote on this issue astounds me from both sides.
Things are not perfect in the EU for the UK but there are benefits to being in.
There are benefits to being out too but also many uncertain expectations and therefore imperfections there too.

We need to be told both by both,not this tit for tat who can put the most fear into voters best.
There will be no real winners of this referendum morally if this campaign carries on as it has and the UK will for sure be the loser if it does carry on like this too.

I very sadly for me even heard a group of people this morning saying, they knew nothing about the EU but they were voting out because they think that will get rid of Cameron as PM.
Unbelievable.
What a way to make a decision on such a vital issue as this

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

There does not in any way need to be any propaganda or false info issued at all.

This is why I am as annoyed wt the 'in' campaign as I am at the 'out' one.

The EU has many flaws and problems attached to being in it,many things the UK govts should have been and should seek to change and help fully reform,with more and more Nations joining that should be easier to do not harder.
Then list the benefits of the EU as they are balancing it with the full nett cots to the UK of being in it too.

That's it, no need or scaremongering or any manipulating of costs and conditions while being in, just plain facts.

As to the 'out' organisations, I have said it many times here and won;t go into it again, all they needed to do was also stick to facts and outline even approximately what costs, tariffs and conditions we would likely have to have to get a trading deal that was good with the EU and also indeed with the Nations we will need to outside the EU too.

Why the attempts to just confuse, scare and put off more those who will need to vote on this issue astounds me from both sides.
Things are not perfect in the EU for the UK but there are benefits to being in.
There are benefits to being out too but also many uncertain expectations and therefore imperfections there too.

We need to be told both by both,not this tit for tat who can put the most fear into voters best.
There will be no real winners of this referendum morally if this campaign carries on as it has and the UK will for sure be the loser if it does carry on like this too.

I very sadly for me even heard a group of people this morning saying, they knew nothing about the EU but they were voting out because they think that will get rid of Cameron as PM.
Unbelievable.
What a way to make a decision on such a vital issue as this

The problem is that those championing the cause from either side with the loudest voices are politicians, who won't waste an opportunity to make a political point. When you can't stand a persons politics it makes it incredibly difficult to jump on board and make a decision if you literally can't stand the person you are listening to.

Its probably too late now, but I think everyone would be much more interested in what "real people" with real knowledge and experience have to say. I don't trust ANY politician to be giving me an unbiased opinion