[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The problem is that those championing the cause from either side with the loudest voices are politicians, who won't waste an opportunity to make a political point. When you can't stand a persons politics it makes it incredibly difficult to jump on board and make a decision if you literally can't stand the person you are listening to.

Its probably too late now, but I think everyone would be much more interested in what "real people" with real knowledge and experience have to say. I don't trust ANY politician to be giving me an unbiased opinion

All you say is right.

A sad state of affairs as to such an important referendum and decision in my view.

Like you too, I think it probably is too late to turn things around and make this campaign more meaningful now.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The problem is that those championing the cause from either side with the loudest voices are politicians, who won't waste an opportunity to make a political point. When you can't stand a persons politics it makes it incredibly difficult to jump on board and make a decision if you literally can't stand the person you are listening to.

Its probably too late now, but I think everyone would be much more interested in what "real people" with real knowledge and experience have to say. I don't trust ANY politician to be giving me an unbiased opinion

True, the most over used word in this campaign has to be "scare mongering"

[Kizzy]

Yep for or against both camps are accused of whipping up a 'project of fear'.

[DemolitionRed]

Most people will vote according to how they believe it will affect them on a personal level and so anyone who feels immigration problems impede in their lives in some negative way, will likely be voting "out". The funniest part about this vote enticement is that currently the UK has an opt out of the Schengen agreement, because we were part of those negotiations. However, the Lisbon Treaty clearly specifies that anyone wishing to join the EEA or the EU, has to accept the Schengen agreement in full as a new member. So if we vote to leave, we lose all the opt-outs we currently have and effectively have to apply to join the EEA to access the free trade area. Whilst I don't see that as a problem, I fully understand that by accepting the Schengen Agreement, it will essentially make the free movement of people from within the EEA even easier than it is at the moment.

My only reason for voting out is, I no longer want Britain to be part of the great state that is harnessed to the twin pillars of capitalism and military supremacy ... America.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Most people will vote according to how they believe it will affect them on a personal level and so anyone who feels immigration problems impede in their lives in some negative way, will likely be voting "out". The funniest part about this vote enticement is that currently the UK has an opt out of the Schengen agreement, because we were part of those negotiations. However, the Lisbon Treaty clearly specifies that anyone wishing to join the EEA or the EU, has to accept the Schengen agreement in full as a new member. So if we vote to leave, we lose all the opt-outs we currently have and effectively have to apply to join the EEA to access the free trade area. Whilst I don't see that as a problem, I fully understand that by accepting the Schengen Agreement, it will essentially make the free movement of people from within the EEA even easier than it is at the moment.

My only reason for voting out is, I no longer want Britain to be part of the great state that is harnessed to the twin pillars of capitalism and military supremacy ... America.

Well I think coming out of the EU,just my thinking admittedly, is that we will probably have to be even closer than we are now to the USA if out.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

[/B]


Well I think coming out of the EU,just my thinking admittedly, is that we will probably have to be even closer than we are now to the USA if out.

America know that if Britain comes out of the EU its going to make transatlantic treaty complicated but then the Americans are trying to shaft us and the EU is doing a great imitation of an ostrich.
I've no doubt that this treaty will absolutely outlaw left-wing politics and destroy the little bit of democracy we are so desperately trying to cling on to.

[the truth]

I prey every day to whoever is listening, that we find the guts the spirit and heart , not to mention the brains to withdraw from this complete and utter monolithic big brother superstate George orwell nightmare....The entire fiasco is a stitch up by the corporate world to take over Europe and the world. It really is that simple and that horrifying.

[kirklancaster]

"I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER" - DAVE 'GROUCHO' CAMERON

ANYONE HERE UP FOR SEEING THIS CORRUPT, SELF-SERVING UK GOVERNMENT 'HOISTED UPON THEIR OWN PETARD'?

The government has laid itself wide open to being challenged in the EUROPEAN COURT of HUMAN RIGHTS (ooooh, how I love irony) because their 'Pamphlet of Lies' breaches The VENICE COMMISSION's 'Code of Good Practice'.

"The Venice Commission's , of which the UK is a full member, was established by the Council of Europe to ensure European countries protect the “Principles of Europe’s electoral heritage”.

"Their Code of Good Practice in Electoral Matters has previously been used by the European Court of Human Rights to settle legal disputes – including challenging the ban on prisoner voting."

Paragraph 111 of that Code, states:

“in the field of public funding of parties or campaigns the principle of equality of opportunity applies”

'PUBLIC FUNDING' and 'EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY' being the key words.

In addition, the self-serving pigs in parliament have even more seriously breached that same 'Code of Good Practice' rulings on Referendums;

"The 24 page document provides specific guidelines for European states looking to hold referendums, including very firm rules on public funding. Section 3, subsection 3.1 CLEARLY states:

“the public authorities (national, regional and local) must not influence the outcome of the vote by excessive, one-sided campaigning. The use of public funds by the authorities for campaigning purposes must be prohibited.”

A corrupt government who SO DESPERATELY want to continue feathering the nests of the ELITE CLUB which THEY and their EUROPEAN buddies belong to at YOUR expense, have not only produced a PAMPHLET OF LIES to aid them in that UNFAIR objective, but have also done so at TAX-PAYERS expense - AND BREACHED THE REGULATIONS OF THAT VERY CLUB.

[Kizzy]

I received my remain booklet.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I received my remain booklet.

Well Kizzy? Have you digested its contents yet? What do you think? Spill.

[joeysteele]

Whatever is in it, after this publicity and this unnecessary wasting in my view of Ł9million on it.
I fear it will recruit more to the 'outs' than 'in' .

The govt has many means at its disposal to make its case and will also be doing so when the campaign is officially under way.
It is not like 1975 with that govt, and that referendum, who did not have all the social media outlets there are now in place.

This is annoying me,they may as well have held this referendum the same day as the local elections and Holyrood elections and Welsh assembly elections.
We have heard little and mostly nothing about them but all about this referendum, at least holding it the same day would have possibly got the best possible turnout outside of a general election.

Frankly I see a poor turnout looming still and a sleepwalking out of the EU now.
The out organisations have bee all over the place so far but the govt actions from its position, has in my view, turned more off as to this issue.
I really do think we are now more than likely heading for a out result.

[bitontheslide]

i got my booklet today. Its not propaganda, its not scaremongering, just factual information which i think is pretty accurate. I don't have a problem with it.

[the truth]

1000s of nhs workers wish to leave but remain anonymous for fear of government reprisals

however some have put their name to a letter today


http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/...ampaign=buffer

Letter text

Dear Sir,

The NHS is a great British institution that families rely on in times of need. But as it slips into financial crisis the NHS itself needs some urgent attention.

The NHS is being asked to make huge cuts at a time of rising demand. Patients are having to wait longer for treatment, hospital deficits are increasing and doctors are on strike after being told they must take a pay cut. The Government must accept responsibility for this – they have starved the NHS of necessary funding for too long.

If we Vote Leave on 23 June we will be able to spend more on our priorities like the NHS. If we put the billions that currently go to EU bureaucrats into the NHS instead it would hugely improve patient care. For example, the Ł350 million a week we hand to Brussels is similar to the entire yearly Cancer Drugs Fund budget.

As healthcare professionals who have worked for the NHS for years we believe that the best choice in the EU referendum is to Vote Leave on June 23rd and save the NHS.

[joeysteele]

Mine came today,the booklet really doesn't say any more than those who have listened to the campaign likely don't know already.
Was it worth Ł9 million of taxpayers funding, no way.

It will be of little assistance to the undecided but I cannot agree with whoever said it was about estimates, there never needed anyway to be reasons for estimates as to being in the EU from the 'in' organisation and the govt.
We know where it and we came from, how it is in the main NOW and the costs of and conditions of being in it, that it is likely to only slowly change in the future for the better hopefully,that will largely depend on who and what govt pushes for further change in the future in the EU.

It sets out the superficial stall in the main, a lot under the table that we don't see or get in this booklet,however now it is time for the out organisations to bring out the substantiated good, fair and bad news as to being out.
The one fact remains,if they remain in a position of cannot do so or will not do so, then really it is a vote into the dark as to voting out,for the future of the UK and its people of all generations.

At least this booklet tells us where we have been and where we are now at the very least, as to the UK being full members of the EU.
While I cannot see it swaying the undecided one way or the other, it has good enough arguments for me to stay in still.

I really doubt sadly,that the undecided,or anyone else for that matter in or out leaning, will ever really get the right information now which they are longing for to make a real informed decision on voting.

[Niamh.]

Can't see you leaving most undecideds will vote for no change ie. stay in if they can't make their minds up, like the Scottish independence referendum

[Cherie]

Many undecideds might not vote at all

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Many undecideds might not vote at all

I think the vast majority of them will not Cherie.
You are in my view spot on in that.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think the vast majority of them will not Cherie.
You are in my view spot on in that.

I also think a lot of people will change their mind at the last moment.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Many undecideds might not vote at all

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think the vast majority of them will not Cherie.
You are in my view spot on in that.

Alot of people always vote though no matter what. Me for example I always think people died for my right to even have a vote so i would never not vote unless it was absolutely unavoidable

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Many undecideds might not vote at all

we just need Proper Fall Debates Live on TV
on all channels

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

we just need Proper Fall Debates Live on TV
on all channels

We do, but are we going to get them

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Alot of people always vote though no matter what. Me for example I always think people died for my right to even have a vote so i would never not vote unless it was absolutely unavoidable

I totally agree with that Niamh, I will always use my vote too.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

We do, but are we going to get them

Yes I think they are going to do them.
As now they have Official Names confirmed etc


Although one vote out group is causing trouble

[arista]

Vote Leave Designated Official Anti-EU Campaign
http://news.sky.com/story/1678041/vo...ti-eu-campaign

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Vote Leave Designated Official Anti-EU Campaign
http://news.sky.com/story/1678041/vo...ti-eu-campaign

I am pleased that one got it, not a surprise really however since it is the one supported by B Johnson.