[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Perhaps as the Mod in question - you could tell me what to do? Should I pm you?

Yes, I'll be happy to clarify why posts are deleted. One of the reasons why we often don't often mention why posts are deleted in the thread itself is because it draws attention to the deleted drama and people will talk about that rather than the subject matter.

[Maru]

I appreciate that mods are here to offer up explanations as there does appear to be some dissension on the matter. Personally, I've never had anything deleted, edited or removed on TiBB... so I can't say for sure anything...

However, on other sites I used to receive PMs when posts were removed, edited, when threads were moved etc... some places the edits were made on the post and an explanation towards the end... (probably should poll users before doing this to see if it is appropriate)

I think this works far more effectively than a non-explanation and even in some cases better than an infraction... doesn't need to be an exhaustive rundown, just short and to the point explanation. Maybe one or two sentences. It invites a response, a little more work sometimes on the front end for a mod , but it does give the affected user a chance to explain their problematic post, allowing room for mutual respect to occur, and hopefully to prevent further issues in the future... which imo, is not only is more transparent for user, but for the mod but for the user... makes it easier to mod discussions over time as some users get the message quicker and can build rapport (lead to less micro mgmt)... then you can focus solely on taking care of the true bad guys ... because you see better the intention of some people's writing styles and can correct them accordingly, and not witnessing an increasingly disaffected user who feels continually impeded when making arguments in highly contested threads.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I've just looked through your infractions, There's nothing wrong with them and I imagine any other mod would say the same.

Private
Reason: Not sure why you have such a problem with this kid but if you could use the ignore function and stop with the baiting these warnings/infractions would not be needed
16-10-2016 02:56 PM by TiBB Staff 16-01-2017 02:56 PM

I have no problem with the person on question...and they appear to have a problem with me if they are reporting me a lot...but that still doesn't tell me what my infraction was for .... it is just a targeted statement insinuating I have some sort of malicious intent...which I don't

Private
Reason: Seriously uncalled for.
22-08-2016 03:39 PM by TiBB Staff 22-11-2016 03:39 PM

I actually have no idea what I said that was seriously uncalled for?? if I did I would never have posted it. How can I alter or change my actions for the better on the forum if I have no idea what rule I broke?

Profile Warning
Reason: No need for pathetic snipes at staff when using the report button, as told to you numerous times before other peoples infractions or the reason for them are nothing to do with you!earlier

Calling my comment pathetic sniping is baiting and insulting and sarcastic commenting. Just say the last part... no need to insult when giving an infraction

These are all examples from my first page of infractions...most recent.
Moderation implies impartiality and decorum....even in the face of nondecorum... this is some of what I am referring to... but I have seen others get far worse then me from the mods on here... and I my comments on here are not just about my account

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Maru

I appreciate that mods are here to offer up explanations as there does appear to be some dissension on the matter. Personally, I've never had anything deleted, edited or removed on TiBB... so I can't say for sure anything...

However, on other sites I used to receive PMs when posts were removed, edited, when threads were moved etc... some places the edits were made on the post and an explanation towards the end... (probably should poll users before doing this to see if it is appropriate)

I think this works far more effectively than a non-explanation and even in some cases better than an infraction... doesn't need to be an exhaustive rundown, just short and to the point explanation. Maybe one or two sentences. It invites a response, a little more work sometimes on the front end for a mod , but it does give the affected user a chance to explain their problematic post, allowing room for mutual respect to occur, and hopefully to prevent further issues in the future... which imo, is not only is more transparent for user, but for the mod but for the user... makes it easier to mod discussions over time as some users get the message quicker and can build rapport (lead to less micro mgmt)... then you can focus solely on taking care of the true bad guys ... because you see better the intention of some people's writing styles and can correct them accordingly, and not witnessing an increasingly disaffected user who feels continually impeded when making arguments in highly contested threads.

What Maru said that pinpoints my thoughts on the matter beautifully

[Maru]

Profile Warning
Reason: No need for pathetic snipes at staff when using the report button, as told to you numerous times before other peoples infractions or the reason for them are nothing to do with you!earlier

Wow. Yeah. Moderating is certainly a real drag sometimes... but to me this is counterproductive as you've just sniped at the user you told not to snipe (even worse it feels more personal)... no good result can occur. Try saying something like this to a customer or client who is being combatant...(well if you weren't so bitchy with your complaints ).. see if their reaction improves. Spoiler: It won't. The manager will be called (always great when that happens ) and they will feel even more entitled to their position... which means it'll take more to satisfy them and calm them down... my view.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Maru

Wow. Yeah. Moderating is certainly a real drag sometimes... but to me this is counterproductive as you've just sniped at the user you told not to snipe (even worse it feels more personal)... no good result can occur. Try saying something like this to a customer or client who is being combatant...(well if you weren't so bitchy with your complaints ).. see if their reaction improves. Spoiler: It won't. The manager will be called (always great when that happens ) and they will feel even more entitled to their position... which means it'll take more to satisfy them and calm them down... my view.

Exactly... I would never say something like this to a client or customer with a complaint... and I deal with complaints on a daily basis as part of my job description

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yes, I'll be happy to clarify why posts are deleted. One of the reasons why we often don't often mention why posts are deleted in the thread itself is because it draws attention to the deleted drama and people will talk about that rather than the subject matter.

To be fair to you, I think you responded to my post just as I was editing it and adding to it, so you may have missed the full post.

I the hope of securing a straight answer, I reproduce it here:

"I was addressing my questions directly to Josy, but perhaps as the Mod in question - you could tell me what to do? Should I pm you?

And the 'warning' most certainly DOES NOT speak for itself - for a start it is a private culmination of a very public and distasteful, unfair and unethical sequence of actions perpetrated by a MODERATOR against me.

You made an uninvited post about me on a thread on this forum which contained numerous wrongful allegations about me and I responded CIVILLY to rebut and refute those allegations.

My RESPONSE was removed.

When I posted to CIVILLY ask why you had removed it. That response was almost instantly removed also.

And so on and so forth - 6 times - until I had no choice but to give up trying to exercise my 'Right To Reply'.

...........................................

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Maru

Wow. Yeah. Moderating is certainly a real drag sometimes... but to me this is counterproductive as you've just sniped at the user you told not to snipe (even worse it feels more personal)... no good result can occur. Try saying something like this to a customer or client who is being combatant...(well if you weren't so bitchy with your complaints ).. see if their reaction improves. Spoiler: It won't. The manager will be called (always great when that happens ) and they will feel even more entitled to their position... which means it'll take more to satisfy them and calm them down... my view.

[Jessica.]

I don't think anyone complaining in this thread would do a good job at being a mod, in all honesty. The mods are still going to have to use their own judgement and when they tell you the reason you're going to disagree with it anyway, so you'll still see it as a vendetta against you.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I don't think anyone complaining in this thread would do a good job at being a mod, in all honesty. The mods are still going to have to use their own judgement and when they tell you the reason you're going to disagree with it anyway, so you'll still see it as a vendetta against you.

Not being ideal candidates for the Judiciary ourselves, does not preclude us from expecting Justice to be dispensed with impeccable honesty, impartiality, reason and erudition by those who ARE Judges, Jessica.

[Liam-]

Is a Big Brother forum really being taken this seriously?

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Not being ideal candidates for the Judiciary ourselves, does not preclude us from expecting Justice to be dispensed with impeccable honesty, impartiality, reason and erudition by those who ARE Judges, Jessica.

This tbh

[Liam-]

From my time on here, I don't think people get infracted for nothing and in general, if you post something, you're not really going to see what's wrong with it, otherwise you wouldn't have posted it, so obviously when you are told that it's wrong, you're clearly not going to agree that it is.

Just live and let live and get on with your day imo.

[Ammi]

..all I'll say while posting one of the forum rules which are signed up to by all...is that whatever which way, whether an explanation left in the thread or no explanation given, it won't be right for all because it's different personal preferences...and we did have an appeals section which was removed because all it mostly involved was staff becoming involved in the disgruntlements of members and no time left for moderating...and I think personally if an explanation were given for each post removal...again so much time taken away from moderating the forum which is unfair for everyone as that's why we choose to post on a moderated forum...



Staff members on the forum have the right to delete, modify or change the content of any post at any time for any reason without notification to anyone. They can also ban or restrict forum members for any reason at anytime. If a moderator edits your post on the forum do not remove the edits.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

To be fair to you, I think you responded to my post just as I was editing it and adding to it, so you may have missed the full post.

I the hope of securing a straight answer, I reproduce it here:

"I was addressing my questions directly to Josy, but perhaps as the Mod in question - you could tell me what to do? Should I pm you?

And the 'warning' most certainly DOES NOT speak for itself - for a start it is a private culmination of a very public and distasteful, unfair and unethical sequence of actions perpetrated by a MODERATOR against me.

You made an uninvited post about me on a thread on this forum which contained numerous wrongful allegations about me and I responded CIVILLY to rebut and refute those allegations.

My RESPONSE was removed.

When I posted to CIVILLY ask why you had removed it. That response was almost instantly removed also.

And so on and so forth - 6 times - until I had no choice but to give up trying to exercise my 'Right To Reply'.

...........................................

You could have always sent a PM asking why but you did not.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I'm not known for abiding by the rules very well, but with the condition of SD at the moment, it's quite obvious why a mod would delete some posts. They are obviously trying to either prevent something escalating into an argument, removing something off-topic or it's something worthy of a warning or infraction and they're actually giving you a chance..

...Jess......

[Jamie89]

I can see both sides because it's probably really frustrating when you have posts deleted - I remember once I noticed Vicky (I think) edited a post of mine, and she left a comment in the 'edit reason' bit, and I appreciated that, so yeah it's a good idea and everything... but I wonder if sometimes inviting a conversation around posts that have been deleted, through PM or in the thread itself, would sometimes lead to further derailment? And are there the mod resources to increase workload? I know it doesn't apply to everyone but a mod comment about a post being deleted could be seen by some as an invitation to discuss it more instead of drop it after seeing the comment. I don't know if a set rule is the way to go with it, but a judgement call on the part of the mod and maybe PMing them if you're not sure why posts have been deleted?

[Liam-]

Also what Jessica said.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I can see both sides because it's probably really frustrating when you have posts deleted - I remember once I noticed Vicky (I think) edited a post of mine, and she left a comment in the 'edit reason' bit, and I appreciated that, so yeah it's a good idea and everything... but I wonder if sometimes inviting a conversation around posts that have been deleted, through PM or in the thread itself, would sometimes lead to further derailment? And are there the mod resources to increase workload? I know it doesn't apply to everyone but a mod comment about a post being deleted could be seen by some as an invitation to discuss it more instead of drop it after seeing the comment. I don't know if a set rule is the way to go with it, but a judgement call on the part of the mod and maybe PMing them if you're not sure why posts have been deleted?

..also I think it's the thing as well that it could just encourage negative attention and gossipy stuff from others with...'why was Jamie's post inflammatory then../what did he say../spill the tea..'...that's not good for the general forum vibe I personally don't think....

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..all I'll say while posting one of the forum rules which are signed up to by all...is that whatever which way, whether an explanation left in the thread or no explanation given, it won't be right for all because it's different personal preferences...and we did have an appeals section which was removed because all it mostly involved was staff becoming involved in the disgruntlements of members and no time left for moderating...and I think personally if an explanation were given for each post removal...again so much time taken away from moderating the forum which is unfair for everyone as that's why we choose to post on a moderated forum...



Staff members on the forum have the right to delete, modify or change the content of any post at any time for any reason without notification to anyone. They can also ban or restrict forum members for any reason at anytime. If a moderator edits your post on the forum do not remove the edits.

In reference to the rule we all signed up for... is it then to much to ask for some accountability and checks for the mods themselves? If I miss step with a client in my job...I expect there to be a conversation around that... an opportunity to explain myself... an admittance on my part of making a mistake...and a direct corse of change to be implemented. Here, if you ask why, or suggest the mods are stepping outside of their part in decency and decorum in that rule... then you get slapped back... and telhe mods get their backs all arched as opposed to stepping back and looking at the situation from a different perspective.
It can't just be....they are mods... so screw you.

[Jessica.]

It's not their job though, it's something that they do in their free time.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Maru

Wow. Yeah. Moderating is certainly a real drag sometimes... but to me this is counterproductive as you've just sniped at the user you told not to snipe (even worse it feels more personal)... no good result can occur. Try saying something like this to a customer or client who is being combatant...(well if you weren't so bitchy with your complaints ).. see if their reaction improves. Spoiler: It won't. The manager will be called (always great when that happens ) and they will feel even more entitled to their position... which means it'll take more to satisfy them and calm them down... my view.

With all due respect you do not know the context of that warning or what it was for. It's one thing to complain, its another to be rude and abusive about it and the manager would hopefully not tolerate such attacks on his staff.

At the end of the day none of us are paid to Moderate this forum and we all have lives and jobs outside of it. We take no real pleasure in giving infractions which often results in accusations of bias, abuse of power, pursuing a vendetta etc. etc. Sometimes we do get it wrong and I'm sure there's plenty of members on here who can say they've had an infraction/warning reversed when it was a result of a misunderstanding or after its been reviewed by other Mods/Admins. On the other hand the sheer lack of accountability and the refusal to admit any wrongdoing when some infractions are received often amazes me.

The reason that posts are sometimes deleted without explanation has been touched on by a few people now but it does often just invite more focus on what's been deleted rather than moving on from it. People start asking what was deleted, they speculate about what happened, and it can also fuel misguided claims of bias.

Like Dezzy said, if anyone wants to know why a post was deleted then PM one of the Mods and I'm sure they'd be happy to have a look at it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Mokka

In reference to the rule we all signed up for... is it then to much to ask for some accountability and checks for the mods themselves? If I miss step with a client in my job...I expect there to be a conversation around that... an opportunity to explain myself... an admittance on my part of making a mistake...and a direct corse of change to be implemented. Here, if you ask why, or suggest the mods are stepping outside of their part in decency and decorum in that rule... then you get slapped back... and telhe mods get their backs all arched as opposed to stepping back and looking at the situation from a different perspective.
It can't just be....they are mods... so screw you.

..I don't think we can equate the forum and moderating/staffing it to our jobs or any job because it's not something that is a paid thing...it's people giving their time for others so a voluntary thing...and I do believe that the staff moderate each other very closely and infractions/bans etc are discussed and if one is thought to be incorrect it will be reversed.../I have known some reversals...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You could have always sent a PM asking why but you did not.

Why did not you - as THE Mod in question then - not pm me as the member whose Right To Reply was denied him by my INNOCENT and perfectly valid posts being repeatedly removed?

In addition, WHY was I given a Warning for simply AND truthfully responding with;

"My proof keeps on being removed"

When YOU yourself invited proof to corroborate Jaxies claim that you were not 'playing by the rules' (or words to that effect) - which you were most certainly not Dezzy.

Should a Moderator leap in and take sides in any debate which he was not previously involved in, by making UNTRUE allegations against one member in defence of another who is on the opposing side of an argument?

WHERE are the lines drawn?

On the subjects of pm's to Mods, I have only ever had the courtesy of TWO replies whenever I HAVE pm'd Mods with a grievance concerning Warnings, Infractions etc; and those have been one from Josy and the other from James.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I don't think anyone complaining in this thread would do a good job at being a mod, in all honesty. The mods are still going to have to use their own judgement and when they tell you the reason you're going to disagree with it anyway, so you'll still see it as a vendetta against you.

Did anyone on the thread apply to be a mod? I'm asking for a explanation, you never know it might foster some mutual respect, not everything has to be negative