[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not asking you. I'm saying the term CHAV is insulting. I was drawing a comparison. You were wrong to use the term in my opinion, and no amount of semantics and denial is going to change that.

Oh I disagree, I've never used it as an insult. I know people who would use that phrase to describe themselves, its just a sub-culture of Britain that shows no sign of fading. I also dont find the words goths, emos, jocks etc offensive, they're just british sub-cultures.. but each to their own.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Withano

Oh I disagree, I've never used it as an insult. I know people who would use that phrase to describe themselves, its just a sub-culture of Britain that shows no sign of fading. I also dont find the words goths, emos, jocks etc offensive, they're just british sub-cultures.. but each to their own.

I agree, what's the point in ignoring a culture that quite blatantly exists?

That said... I will openly admit that I don't particularly like the majority of chavs .

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Hi Joey,I really don't think it's that bad,maybe we have just had different experiences,I know disabled people ,my mom looked after one until he passed away in October, he was always treated well and helped as much as he needed it,the only thing that was lacking was the pittance mom was given for looking after him,but she was ok with it as it wasn't about money for her, so I can only go on my experiences and at the moment Labour hold nothing enticing for me ,My nan is also a pensioner,she gets basic state pension,but manages fine on it,it depends what you want out of life and how you spend your money I think,she gets help with her fuel bills in the winter and most companies will do payment plans to accommodate her. I understand you may have not had good experiences from them,but at least you didn't stoop so low to call me a 'chav' I thank you for thatOh and btw,IF the Tories ever bring back fox hunting,I will be a none voter.

It is that bad Kazanne.

I've seen people,plural,needing dialysis and with only limited time left to live
With several other major health issues,wheeled into court after being put in wrag group rather than support group.
Who have had benefits cut when being forced to apply for pip from dla.

The DWP rejecting a change to their decisions, govt doing nothing at all about it.
Then again it's govt guidelines that cause the problem.

So into court they have to go and all that time and added extra stress piled on them
Where in fact the last estimate is that two thirds of court appeals are won in full.

Any govt presiding over that for me deserves contempt and derision not admiration.

As to foxhunting,she will bring it back if she gets a bigger majority.
She will,I predict,likely make it a freevote on the issue but the intake of extreme Con MPs, who want this back,will ensure it is, with their bgger overall majority and therefore the numbers increased of Con MPs

Just more to have contempt for their thinking for and Theresa May is a strong supporter of bringing such barbaric hunting back too.
Too late to change it again once it is voted back for sure.

It will happen.
They could not get it back in the Coalition,the Lib Dems against it and Labour etc:

This 12 majority is also not enough to win a hunting back vote with certainty.
A bigger majority will ensure it this time though.
I'd never myself support that or even risk it coming about.

[smudgie]

So basically the Tories are finding popualrity amongst more people, from all walks of life.

[Denver]

Corbyn doesn't care about his party and supporters and because of that he has played into the Conservative hands

[Withano]

Originally Posted by smudgie

So basically the Tories are finding popualrity amongst more people, from all walks of life.

This is the basic summary of my theory! I should have probably worded it like this instead somebody else mentioned the Brexit vote which I also think is a good theory.

[Kizzy]

Oh it's been known for years, it began with the bish bosh 'Essex man' and snowballed from there.

'The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) lists the earliest reference to the Essex man as one from 7 October 1990 in The Sunday Telegraph, although a reference to 26 January 1990 issue of Campaign: "Representative [David Amess] of new Essex man, working-class, father electrician, right-wing, keen hanger, noisily rambunctious, no subtlety".'


neo liberal 'chav'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_man

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

So basically the Tories are finding popualrity amongst more people, from all walks of life.

I wouldn't say popularity and I also feel a great many who may end up giving this lot a much bigger majority,will be deeply regretting it soon afterwards.

Often votes are given very begrudgingly and many votes for Labour will be too.
I know many more votes would go to Labour,if Corbyn was not leader.

Once austerity is continued,once even more hardline testing and moving the goalposts as to the sick and disabled rightful claims.
Not to mention more confrontational acts as to the NHS.

Once a much less probably compromising dealing with the Brexit issue comes into play.
I won't add here things like foxhunting.Kazanne and I have long United together detested the very idea of that legal again.

So I see a good many voters in a year or so,full of likely regret after putting that cross for the Conservatives.
Sadly with an increased majority,the bad effect of the things this deceitful PM will then do, will be firmly in place and a great many in great stress and suffering from said legislation.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I wouldn't say popularity and I also feel a great many who may end up giving this lot a much bigger majority,will be deeply regretting it soon afterwards.

Often votes are given very begrudgingly and many votes for Labour will be too.
I know many more votes would go to Labour,if Corbyn was not leader.

Once austerity is continued,once even more hardline testing and moving the goalposts as to the sick and disabled rightful claims.
Not to mention more confrontational acts as to the NHS.

Once a much less probably compromising dealing with the Brexit issue comes into play.
I won't add here things like foxhunting.Kazanne and I have long United together detested the very idea of that legal again.

So I see a good many voters in a year or so,full of likely regret after putting that cross for the Conservatives.
Sadly with an increased majority,the bad effect of the things this deceitful PM will then do, will be firmly in place and a great many in great stress and suffering from said legislation.

I definitely have to agree with your point about Mr.Corbyn, for all he does attract more members to the party he at the same time loses votes from a lot of what would normally be labour voters.
Had they changed the leadership then I reckon labour would be doing much better in this election.

[Kizzy]

But they had a leadership election, it was a democratic process... and the best man won.

[Denver]

Andy Burnham isn't leader though

[Kizzy]

He didn't win the vote that's why, if more members want someone else that's how it is I'm afraid :/

[Denver]

He should have stepped down when he failed not continued

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

But they had a leadership election, it was a democratic process... and the best man won.

Fair process...but they are screwed if he is the best to offer.

[Kizzy]

Why, what's wrong with him?...

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why, what's wrong with him?...

The voters don't appear to trust him, or his policies.
All give give give and no real accountability of where the funding is coming from.
Just more of the Labour borrowing that we can't afford.
We hear all the promises that the tax rises etc will pay for it all but it is not convincing many, otherwise he would be doing better than he is in the popularity stakes

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by smudgie

The voters don't appear to trust him, or his policies.
All give give give and no real accountability of where the funding is coming from.
Just more of the Labour borrowing that we can't afford.
We hear all the promises that the tax rises etc will pay for it all but it is not convincing many, otherwise he would be doing better than he is in the popularity stakes

Sorry but I'm going to quote your post from your last paragraph and then work backwards!!

The reason his monetary policies can't convince the masses is because the masses, generally have little idea about how fiscal borrowing/spending works. Now before a certain person jumps in and accuses me of downgrading a populations intelligence, its nothing to do with intelligence and all to do with an interest in political economics... or not. Even my parents (god love em) who are high flying professionals liken fiscal spending/saving/borrowing to how they run their own household. Most people simply don't care about GDP levels so long as their own standard of living is okay.

We can afford to borrow. We can afford to stop austerity and we can afford to spend. If we want our economy to grow and prosper, we have to do all of those things.

I know the British government are always telling us how well they are doing and how popular media echo those sentiments but at this moment in time we are in financial crisis and that crisis is set to deepen because we are running on empty. The Tories are putting their money under the austerity mattress even though they know its a failed experiment and if something radical doesn't happen soon, we are all going to hit depressing times.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by smudgie

The voters don't appear to trust him, or his policies.
All give give give and no real accountability of where the funding is coming from.
Just more of the Labour borrowing that we can't afford.
We hear all the promises that the tax rises etc will pay for it all but it is not convincing many, otherwise he would be doing better than he is in the popularity stakes

I think the costings will add up once the manifesto is out.
This lot have borrowed loads too,to be fair.

I also think Corbyn has policies that would attract many voters.
However therein brings the problem
For whatever reasons,rightly or wrongly the voters he needs are sadly not listening.
Neil Kinnock apparently took Labour and Shook it up strongly but could not also reach voters either.

Corbyn would have done better leaving a legacy of policies and letting a new leader convey the message.
A leader should not be a barrier to a whole Party winning power in my view,I have to concede however that Jeremy Corbyn has not connected.

Labour as a govt though is still my choice as to voting.
I just hope enough join me to stop this woman getting a bigger majority and even hopefully remove the one she already had.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

The voters don't appear to trust him, or his policies.
All give give give and no real accountability of where the funding is coming from.
Just more of the Labour borrowing that we can't afford.
We hear all the promises that the tax rises etc will pay for it all but it is not convincing many, otherwise he would be doing better than he is in the popularity stakes

The under 40s prefer him to may though, he is appealing to many.
The manifesto will spell it out, if we had had clear accounting or anything at all from team may I would say you have a point, but at the moment I just don't see anything other than the usual media driven slurs.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

Since when was chav a derogatory term at all. Why are you putting it on the same level as racism and sexism. Completely inappropriate.

Oh I see it's only a problem if you aren't saying it.

[Niamh.]

Deleted some posts in here, stay on topic, stop discussing eachother etc etc

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Sorry but I'm going to quote your post from your last paragraph and then work backwards!!

The reason his monetary policies can't convince the masses is because the masses, generally have little idea about how fiscal borrowing/spending works. Now before a certain person jumps in and accuses me of downgrading a populations intelligence, its nothing to do with intelligence and all to do with an interest in political economics... or not. Even my parents (god love em) who are high flying professionals liken fiscal spending/saving/borrowing to how they run their own household. Most people simply don't care about GDP levels so long as their own standard of living is okay.

We can afford to borrow. We can afford to stop austerity and we can afford to spend. If we want our economy to grow and prosper, we have to do all of those things.

I know the British government are always telling us how well they are doing and how popular media echo those sentiments but at this moment in time we are in financial crisis and that crisis is set to deepen because we are running on empty. The Tories are putting their money under the austerity mattress even though they know its a failed experiment and if something radical doesn't happen soon, we are all going to hit depressing times.

Excellent post DR.
Really well said.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Sorry but I'm going to quote your post from your last paragraph and then work backwards!!

The reason his monetary policies can't convince the masses is because the masses, generally have little idea about how fiscal borrowing/spending works. Now before a certain person jumps in and accuses me of downgrading a populations intelligence, its nothing to do with intelligence and all to do with an interest in political economics... or not. Even my parents (god love em) who are high flying professionals liken fiscal spending/saving/borrowing to how they run their own household. Most people simply don't care about GDP levels so long as their own standard of living is okay.

We can afford to borrow. We can afford to stop austerity and we can afford to spend. If we want our economy to grow and prosper, we have to do all of those things.

I know the British government are always telling us how well they are doing and how popular media echo those sentiments but at this moment in time we are in financial crisis and that crisis is set to deepen because we are running on empty. The Tories are putting their money under the austerity mattress even though they know its a failed experiment and if something radical doesn't happen soon, we are all going to hit depressing times.

Perhaps there could be truth in what you say, I don't know, but it just doesn't alter the fact that he isn't trusted enough to vote for.
Not just the fiscal aspects but on other issues as well.
Brexit and his stance on defending the country haven't gone down well at all.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Perhaps there could be truth in what you say, I don't know, but it just doesn't alter the fact that he isn't trusted enough to vote for.
Not just the fiscal aspects but on other issues as well.
Brexit and his stance on defending the country haven't gone down well at all.

I don't understand his stance on Brexit, he was a remainer but wanted out really, what is he now?

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I don't understand his stance on Brexit, he was a remainer but wanted out really, what is he now?

Therein lies the problem.
We don't know, if he made more of it either way then the voters would know exactly how he stands.