[Brillopad]

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...d-trump-214472

Very interesting as it strikes a very familiar chord!

If good st nothing else - the Left certainly have a good go at undermining those that don’t share their views.

[Shaun]

Brillo every time the sat-nav says "turn left"

[Kizzy]

So it's nothing to do with the right demonising those they don't like?.... Sure Jan.

Loving these right wing blogs, wherever do you find them all?

[Vicky.]

I agree with most of that tbh

The general attitude of the left was: Disagree with us? You’re probably racist, xenophobic, sexist, bigoted or all of the above.

Also I generally agree with this, but sometimes the person genuinely is obviously racist, xenophobic etc.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I agree with most of that tbh



Also I generally agree with this, but sometimes the person genuinely is obviously racist, xenophobic etc.

There are ‘racists’ on both sides of the argument but there is no doubt that the pushiness of the Left has been a major driver for the two big votes. Have they learned anything from that - it seems not! But neither side is going to back down so I guess it’s watch this space.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

There are ‘racists’ on both sides of the argument but there is no doubt that the pushiness of the Left has been a major driver for the two big votes. Have they learned anything from that - it seems not! But neither side is going to back down so I guess it’s watch this space.

I also believe the endless accusations of racism pushed the brexit vote the way it went. Anyone who mentioned voting leave was immediately shouted down as racist which would really make them even more determined to vote.

Yes, I believe the left is to blame for both Trump and Brexit..and the way the world seems to be moving slowly right.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Brillo every time the sat-nav says "turn left"

I could so easily say ‘ditto’ - but I won’t.

[Tom4784]

I disagree.

People annoyed with the fact that the world is becoming more progressive became Trump's core audience and most of his other voters voted for him because they believed he was looking at for them when, everything he has done in office has shown that he is only interested in protecting the rich and corporations which is why a lot of people who voted for him won't vote for him again.

It essentially came down to people believing the fairy tales that Trump was peddling over the fact checking that showed him up because he spun a tale that was more pleasing to their ears.

I think something very similar happened in Brexit too which is why you had Gove making headlines by telling people to ignore the expert opinions because they didn't like what was being said, why lies on a bus were so prevalent in the Leave campaign.

It's nothing to do with the left or the right, it's just that far too many people in today's world will believe what they want to believe even if facts show it to be wrong. People prefer to live in a fantasy rather than accept the reality of any given situation.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Brillo every time the sat-nav says "turn left"

“At the roundabout, take the first left”
“Bloody PC brigade and their agendas, not today TomTom” *heads back home to find anti-left news-articles for tibb*

[jaxie]

I think there is a lack of open mindedness and unwillingness to understand any other point of view from the left. It comes over as a bit of a patronising we know best, without actually listening to any other stand point.

With regard Trump, I think he is a creep but I found the demonstrations embarrassing and childish. I also struggle to understand the Trump hate when other meglomaniacs come and go from the UK without so much as a chant and a banner. It makes me question how genuine the views on the left are.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I think there is a lack of open mindedness and unwillingness to understand any other point of view from the left. It comes over as a bit of a patronising we know best, without actually listening to any other stand point.

With regard Trump, I think he is a creep but I found the demonstrations embarrassing and childish. I also struggle to understand the Trump hate when other meglomaniacs come and go from the UK without so much as a chant and a banner. It makes me question how genuine the views on the left are.

That's a problem with the extremes of both sides. You can't make out that it's a left only problem when on this forum alone (in this thread even) you've got examples of the same behaviour from people of the right.

It's a pissing contest that both sides are guilty of.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

“At the roundabout, take the first left”
“Bloody PC brigade and their agendas, not today TomTom” *heads back home to find anti-left news-articles for tibb*

Not compliant enough for you. Shame that.

[arista]

Why the Feck
did the Democrats put up Hilary Clinton.
Some of the left voted for Trump
because they never want the Clintons back



Hilary gave us Trump
FACT

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I disagree.

People annoyed with the fact that the world is becoming more progressive became Trump's core audience and most of his other voters voted for him because they believed he was looking at for them when, everything he has done in office has shown that he is only interested in protecting the rich and corporations which is why a lot of people who voted for him won't vote for him again.

It essentially came down to people believing the fairy tales that Trump was peddling over the fact checking that showed him up because he spun a tale that was more pleasing to their ears.

I think something very similar happened in Brexit too which is why you had Gove making headlines by telling people to ignore the expert opinions because they didn't like what was being said, why lies on a bus were so prevalent in the Leave campaign.

It's nothing to do with the left or the right, it's just that far too many people in today's world will believe what they want to believe even if facts show it to be wrong. People prefer to live in a fantasy rather than accept the reality of any given situation.

Yes but he Moved the Embassy
as he said he would
And started Trade Wars with China and the World
both he pledged to do.
just 2 examples.

Sure no Wall , as yet.


Not Fantasy
But Fact Dezzy

[bitontheslide]

The democrats are only perceived as left leaning in the USA, they wouldn't be classed that way in a european context

Hilary was disliked by a huge number of Americans and the democrats totally misjudged that, but it was the person more than the politics that allowed Trump in.

and with regard to it only being left leaning protesters in the UK, that is simply not true. Trump's brand of politics doesn't sit well with many, from all sides in the UK.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I disagree.

People annoyed with the fact that the world is becoming more progressive became Trump's core audience and most of his other voters voted for him because they believed he was looking at for them when, everything he has done in office has shown that he is only interested in protecting the rich and corporations which is why a lot of people who voted for him won't vote for him again.

It essentially came down to people believing the fairy tales that Trump was peddling over the fact checking that showed him up because he spun a tale that was more pleasing to their ears.

I think something very similar happened in Brexit too which is why you had Gove making headlines by telling people to ignore the expert opinions because they didn't like what was being said, why lies on a bus were so prevalent in the Leave campaign.

It's nothing to do with the left or the right, it's just that far too many people in today's world will believe what they want to believe even if facts show it to be wrong. People prefer to live in a fantasy rather than accept the reality of any given situation.

More of your fairy tales I would say. You clearly havrn’t understood a word because you, like many other pushy left voters, assumed, undermined, insulted and patronised anyone with opposing views into a protest vote. If you think those on the right should to change their thinking - you and others need to wake up and smell the coffee and realise that your way is no way!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The democrats are only perceived as left leaning in the USA, they wouldn't be classed that way in a european context

Hilary was disliked by a huge number of Americans and the democrats totally misjudged that, but it was the person more than the politics that allowed Trump in.

and with regard to it only being left leaning protesters in the UK, that is simply not true. Trump's brand of politics doesn't sit well with many, from all sides in the UK.

I still reckon Bernie would have absolutely stormed it. Hilary was definitely the wrong choice.

[Ammi]

...I think there are many reasons that Trump became President Trump...some were anti Hilary votes, some were anti-establishment votes...some yeah, would have been support of his views on Mexico and immigration and agreement with his wall etc...some people would have voted just because they liked Trump, no other reason..also he was more skilled at playing the media in a way the public respond to media....lots of things created Trump, the shock that many USA people thought they would never get.....he was never created by the left views though, that blog or article as very, very simplistic...I have no idea who the person is who wrote it...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I think there are many reasons that Trump became President Trump...some were anti Hilary votes, some were anti-establishment votes...some yeah, would have been support of his views on Mexico and immigration and agreement with his wall etc...some people would have voted just because they liked Trump, no other reason..also he was more skilled at playing the media in a way the public respond to media....lots of things created Trump, the shock that many USA people thought they would never get.....he was never created by the left views though, that blog or article as very, very simplistic...I have no idea who the person is who wrote it...

Correct
many on the Left never wanted Hilary
they wanted Bernie Saunders.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I still reckon Bernie would have absolutely stormed it. Hilary was definitely the wrong choice.

Yes you could be right Vicky

Democrats were Utter Fools
to put up The Clintons.
Yes The Husband would advise the Corruption.
Hilary was damaged goods.

[Maru]

How the Left Created Trump

Well before Donald Trump declared he was running—to the amusement of the liberal media and Washington establishment, who didn’t stop laughing until Nov. 8—and long before Hillary Clinton dismissed half of Trump’s supporters as “deplorables,” the right had gotten used to being looked down upon by liberals. The general attitude of the left was: Disagree with us? You’re probably racist, xenophobic, sexist, bigoted or all of the above. Indeed, for many liberal Americans, these prejudices have come to be seen as inseparable from identity of the Republican Party itself. And when the GOP went all-out Trump, it only confirmed to many liberals that their ideological opponents were no longer worthy of respect.

The attitude extended way beyond election politics. Over the past few years at universities across America, for example, liberal students effectively banned Republicans from delivering commencement speeches by protesting speakers like Karl Rove, Rand Paul and Condoleezza Rice, forcing them to withdraw.

On Nov. 8, it appears, the right decided it finally had enough of this smugness. Conservative voters—including many former working-class Democrats who made the difference in key states such as Pennsylvania and Wisconsin—sent the message that they’d had enough not only of losing economically, but also of being sneered at. Trump’s rise in popularity—and ultimately his election to the presidency—should be seen as a long-building reaction to grass-roots liberal activism that came to dominate the cultural landscape and claim victory after victory in the social arena, whether the issue was abortion or gay marriage or transgender rights, always accompanied by that same disdain for right-wing views as worthy of the Stone Age. Trump’s rise to power evolved out of this frustration, as Clinton’s campaign increasingly became an extension of liberal America’s smug style of debate—an attitude that no longer disputed on grounds of policy or intellectual differences, but on the issue of the integrity of the right altogether.

By writing off right-wing Americans as deleterious to the ethical integrity of the country, left-wing Americans increasingly demonstrated that they hardly saw a place for the Republican Party in 21st century America at all.The ragtag nature of Trump’s campaign—delivering him to the forefront of the Republican Party while simultaneously dismantling it—only validated liberals’ righteousness. Recall that right up to election, the popular meme in the media was the conservative movement was in a state of collapse, and the liberals were dominant.

“The left has done very well in the cultural wars in the last couple of decades,” says Dalton Conley, an American sociologist and professor at Princeton University, “but there's often a backlash.”

***

Now the reckoning comes. While there is a clear need to rectify the indisputable disadvantages faced by America’s marginalized peoples—from the LGBTQ community to Muslims and people of color—Trump’s victory seems to indicate that unmitigated social activism can have unintended consequences.

Conley compares this to “the backlash after the civil rights movement in the form of Nixon.”

Nowhere was this tension more apparent than America’s college and university campuses where students’ pursuit of social justice left many people feeling that their free speech was under attack. Expectations for teachers to reshape their lessons around the phenomena of “micro-aggressions” and “triggers” led many faculty members across the country to question their ability to educate students at all, without fear of offending them. Last year, Yale’s Erika Christakis was forced to resign following student backlash to a seemingly innocuous email that attempted to engage students with respectful discourse about cultural appropriation—following which, one student wrote in the Yale Herald, "I don’t want to debate. I want to talk about my pain.”

Herein lies the problem with the left’s “by any means necessary” style of social activism: When any challenge to the prevailing liberal doctrine, cast under the wrong light, can forever cast one as a “racist,” those with dissenting opinions are left with only two options: concede, or retaliate.

Trump appealed to the latter by forming the populist right-wing counterpart to the left’s stubborn ethos.

Through this lens, Clinton’s candidacy can be seen as the political counterpart of liberal university students asserting that discussion is now off the table, where anything less than concession is morally suspect.

To many Trump supporters, Clinton—whose own record is far from spotless—was merely another “PC” liberal griping about “micro-aggressions” and “triggering” language. To many white working-class Democrats, she had simply failed to address their increasingly pressing concerns.

“Having served in the ’92 Clinton campaign, and having been part of the economic dialogue with the Midwest in the industrial heartland in 1992 when we did very well, it’s hard for me to understand how Hillary’s campaign didn't really see the centrality of her leading with economic issues,” says Simon Rosenberg, founder of the New Democratic Network and veteran strategist for the Democratic Party.

A Gallup poll assessing what Americans perceived as the “most important problem facing this country today” helps to explain the disillusionment of this once-faithful constituency: “Economic problems” consistently took the No. 1 spot, while issues like “lack of respect for each other” and “unifying the country” appeared at the bottom of the list.

Trump’s campaign rhetoric and slogans were aimed directly at the former, while Clinton (“stronger together”) chose the latter. Rosenberg says Clinton’s misjudgment of voters’ concerns is his greatest criticism of her campaign.

While Clinton traveled the country insisting that “America is great, because America is good,” Trump was busy cultivating a vision of economic prosperity—“make America great again”—with the promise of “beautiful” and “tremendous” and “big-league” change.

Nowhere was the backlash from this act of liberal smugness more deeply felt than the Rust Belt states, in which counties like Kenosha, Wisconsin, broke more than 40 years of Democratic support in favor of Trump.

“The Democratic Party abandoned the economic issues that had locked that constituency into the party, so that the political contest became an almost purely ideological and cultural one,” says Dylan John Riley, a professor of sociology at the University of California, Berkeley.

And by waging a war against right-wing ethics, the Democratic Party, supported by the elite media, underestimated the true extent of Trump’s support—perhaps because most were too embarrassed to admit their allegiance—while playing right into the hands of Trump’s anti-“PC” rhetoric.

For Trump supporters, the media were seen as an extension of the Democratic elite—and they weren’t entirely incorrect. The brazen media bias—not just against Trump, but also, more pertinently, against Bernie Sanders—and the Democratic Party’s undermining of Sanders only validated the frustration of the right, and Trump’s narrative of a corrupt, elite Democratic chokehold on American politics.

As Vivek Chibber, a sociologist at New York University, tells me, “The media is responsible not just for hyping Clinton over Sanders, but also for bringing Trump up in a way that only hyped him even more—lampooning and dismissing him instead of taking seriously the way in which he was speaking to disaffected voters.”

Regardless of the thuggish, misguided and inflammatory reaction of Trump supporters to media bias that has encouraged the donning of T-shirts reading “Tree. Rope. Journalist. (Some assembly required),” it’s not hard to empathize with their growing scorn for the media elite.
To many on the right and left, media had become an extension of the Democratic Party’s already stacked effort—through superdelegates and plotting to undermine Sanders—to thwart the political upheaval that promised to follow a Sanders, or Trump, presidency.

While superdelegates were ultimately not the deciding factor—Clinton led in votes, states and pledged delegates—the undemocratic tone of the Democratic Party’s push for Clinton only further exacerbated Americans’ desperation for political reform. White working-class Democrats who showed significant support for Sanders during the primaries fled the party in droves following Clinton’s nomination, as the arrogance of the Democratic Party promptly bent the political spectrum into a horseshoe.

Ironically, while liberal America flouted the authoritarian undertones of Trump’s campaign, their own party demonstrated a lack of interest in public opinion, foisting their chosen candidate on Americans as if to say: We will decide what’s best for you. The result was more fuel to the growing fire of frustration among Americans for political elites and the status quo—power structures that a Trump presidency promised to topple.

By the end of the primaries—in which Clinton was often referred to as the “presumptive nominee” before being prematurely declared the nominee—the arrogance of the Democratic Party superseded itself once more by assuming Clinton’s presidency inevitable.

During the Clinton-Trump debates, liberals everywhere rolled their eyes at the embarrassment of a seasoned politician like Clinton needing to debate such an obviously ham-fisted opponent. Vox’s Emily Crockett put her finger on it with an article titled “Clinton's debate performance spoke to every woman who has had to humor an incompetent man.”

But it wasn’t only women who felt that Trump, and his Republican constituents, were being humored. Media pundits highlighted a general consensus that a Trump victory would be absurd and virtually impossible.

But then the impossible happened: Trump won, securing both the presidency and Congress for Republicans—so that, in the same year, The Atlantic went from asking, “Will the Republican Party Survive the 2016 Election?” to now “Does the Democratic Party Have a Future?”

***

Following Trump’s victory, many see the protests staged across the country as an extension of liberal America’s unwillingness—still!—to bend to its Republican counterparts. While the outcome of this election was upsetting for many—Trump’s presidency is not simply terrifying for immigrants and minorities, but could have irreversible environmental consequences—liberals are seemingly yet to grasp why they lost this election.

While of course the Democratic Party has a future, Trump’s presidency will require liberals to reassess a flawed, righteous identity that all but forced right-wing America’s—so desperate for change—hands to the stove, to elect the only candidate who demonstrated the potential for reform.

Yet that reckoning has yet to happen.

In the years to come, when we look back on Trump’s victory, this is why it will be remembered less as a win for Republicans than as a failure for the Democrats—the result of liberal America’s unwillingness to compromise, or even show magnanimity in the face of all its victories on social issues.

I agree with this. And yes I also agree that Bernie Sanders being screwed by the DNC also alienated a lot of Democrat voters as well. If you go on YT, there is a #walkaway movement now taking off and many have cited that being a major reason for walking away. The media and folk from the left (particularly the "elites), are attempting to write these people and their valid concerns off as "Russian bots". That sort of denialism is stomach-churning for me.

I feel like we sort of watched this all happen before during the second term of Bush, how badly he was treated by the press, and how the Republicans were framed in as the party of Evil... Obama was the anthesis of this, and I'll admit, I ate that all up then. Though on local level, I've always opted for a more conservative option as an independent.

Unfortunately now, I see the fruits of what this has bore, and I don't like it. Personally, I want US to retain its freedoms, it's most basic rights and I don't want to give up my ability to remain independent from any ideology that is the trend of the moment. However...

There is already plenty of proof that there is this big desire to take apart the Constitution as it's written, rewrite it and undermine our most basic liberties at the state level in order to pursue their vision of the expansion of State. They tried this with the Supreme Court when they changed the filibuster rules for Supreme Court nominees. Something I remember being very livid about then, and is also one of the other reasons why people may have voted Trump now, was to prevent the Supreme Court from being undermined by having only left-leaning judges.

This is the Democrats only real "solution" to our problem.... what other solutions would they profer other than to from scream racist at every corner? Surely that accomplishes jack all, look at SD. All their solid cards have been played in the major cities, and that's not worked out there to end poverty and stop crime (for example), and it's only so long you can keep playing the race/victim card and pointing to the other side. So the only other "path forward they can take at this point is to pass along their terrible policies to the federal level and expand the state so that they can "enact" their policies that way...

I can't tell you how anthetical that all is against our form of democracy and our national identity... that will not fly with the average American voter once they realize they've been duped. Targeting Trump in a personal fashion distracts from all that for the time-being, but I think people will eventually ask those questions and that will probably go very badly, for both parties, if I'm honest...

Note* I think my keyboard needs to be cleaned I think, so there may be some areas that need pruning/correcting... -_- Just ignore the aa's...

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I think there are many reasons that Trump became President Trump...some were anti Hilary votes, some were anti-establishment votes...some yeah, would have been support of his views on Mexico and immigration and agreement with his wall etc...some people would have voted just because they liked Trump, no other reason..also he was more skilled at playing the media in a way the public respond to media....lots of things created Trump, the shock that many USA people thought they would never get.....he was never created by the left views though, that blog or article as very, very simplistic...I have no idea who the person is who wrote it...

Agree with this. The left didn't create Trump but they did contribute. He took advantage of the discourse within the US played the media and pulled off an unlikely win.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The democrats are only perceived as left leaning in the USA, they wouldn't be classed that way in a european context

Hilary was disliked by a huge number of Americans and the democrats totally misjudged that, but it was the person more than the politics that allowed Trump in.

and with regard to it only being left leaning protesters in the UK, that is simply not true. Trump's brand of politics doesn't sit well with many, from all sides in the UK.

The GOP establishment had no time for Trump during the Primaries until it looked like he was going to win. I wonder how many of the establishment now regret supporting him

[Toy Soldier]

There are many reasons that people voted Trump ranging from being core republicans, to completely agreeing with him. However, yes, the reason that ENOUGH people voted for Trump was backlash against a push for too much social change too quickly. People seeing injustices and changes that need to happen but not allowing that change to be gradual; insisting that it must be ALL and NOW.

The push back was inevitable and it's exactly the same push back that allowed Brexit to happen.

[GoldHeart]

Why is this same argument always brought up .
But it's OK for the right wing / right side to belittled & mock the left wing / left side and call them "snowflakes" & "libtards" because that's not childish or disrespectful at all right ??