[parmnion]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1..._found_myself/

[Nicky91]

i was shocked about Robin Williams, he was one of my fave actors, i felt so sad to hear the moment we found out he took his own life

[parmnion]

this story was written by my cousins son for the herald....

so young people, please try and open up to someone you feel you can trust. luckily he had my aunt to confind in.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by parmnion

this story was written by my cousins son for the herald....

so young people, please try and open up to someone you feel you can trust. luckily he had my aunt to confind in.

aw, very emotional story Parmy

[Toy Soldier]

I do personally think that the school system is currently doing an absolutely piss poor job of setting up young people for the real world. Still pushing most kids towards academics (which isn't for everyone), still grades-focused rather than on a well rounded education, still pushing too many pointless subjects that are only relevant to people who actually want to pursue them further. Totally lacking in teaching basic, useful life skills like money management and how to avoid debt (and debt problems contribute MASSIVELY to mental health issues) and basic prep for adult life.

You just have kids leaving thrown into the deep end of an adult world and told that they suddenly must swim perfectly. No wonder people struggle.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I do personally think that the school system is currently doing an absolutely piss poor job of setting up young people for the real world. Still pushing most kids towards academics (which isn't for everyone), still grades-focused rather than on a well rounded education, still pushing too many pointless subjects that are only relevant to people who actually want to pursue them further. Totally lacking in teaching basic, useful life skills like money management and how to avoid debt (and debt problems contribute MASSIVELY to mental health issues) and basic prep for adult life.

You just have kids leaving thrown into the deep end of an adult world and told that they suddenly must swim perfectly. No wonder people struggle.

yep totally agree

[arista]

Yes the Young Rage is getting out of hand
doing Sports is good for the young.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

this story was written by my cousins son for the herald....

so young people, please try and open up to someone you feel you can trust. luckily he had my aunt to confind in.

Excellent article

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I do personally think that the school system is currently doing an absolutely piss poor job of setting up young people for the real world. Still pushing most kids towards academics (which isn't for everyone), still grades-focused rather than on a well rounded education, still pushing too many pointless subjects that are only relevant to people who actually want to pursue them further. Totally lacking in teaching basic, useful life skills like money management and how to avoid debt (and debt problems contribute MASSIVELY to mental health issues) and basic prep for adult life.

You just have kids leaving thrown into the deep end of an adult world and told that they suddenly must swim perfectly. No wonder people struggle.

Many people learned how to do these things before education was ever a major factor and taught themselves skills if that education wasn't provided out in the world. The issue here is that parents are not teaching these skills and they're shielding their kids, coddling them and removing all signs of discomfort, rather than preparing them for the real world.

Let's be realistic, the govt/education system/law enforcement already have enough on their plate and what they do have, they often do very inefficiently and very poorly. Yes, they are focusing on Academics, but are they even doing that particularly well? I would say not judging that the newer generation(s) know less than mine did (and mine was bad enough). These institutions were never meant to solve all the tasks we have given them today. The onus is on society to get it's act together. Simply put, we've become too dependent on our govt and these systems, and as a result, society has become very soft and isn't equipped to even deal with the milder problems... largely due to way our sheltered lifestyles.

[Toy Soldier]

I'm not talking about the basics like washing your own clothes or how to make a food budget...

We're several generations deep into a society that has been deliberately driven towards debt by giant multinational financial institutions... So sure, in an ideal world parents would be prepping their kids thoroughly for this stuff, but in many cases they aren't. In many cases they don't even know how to do it for themselves, so how could they? I'm not talking about classes where someone stands at the front and says "don't get debts... Debts are bad, mmkay?" I'm talking about classes where things like loan terms, interest rates, potential consequences etc. are taught clearly by qualified financial experts. Parents can't teach these things because frankly, the majority of the time, they don't understand most of it themselves. These things have been deliberately obfuscated for decades.

And even if parents should do it, but aren't doing it, then what? "Tough ****, your parents shoulda taught you, toughen up!" is not an approach that works. It's an approach that leads to mental health problems and increases in suicide. We know this already.

[Twosugars]

True TS, rampant consumerist capitalism has a lot to answer for

[LaLaLand]

Good article.

Not exactly like similar to that but I had a full nervous breakdown at 18 years old (10 years ago now) and basically lost about 5 of what should have been "the best years of my life" to mental illness, so I can empathise.

[Kizzy]

Modern life, education, work, the economy it's all very stressful, I don't agree it's coddling at all in fact the opposite, I think kids are under far too much pressure too soon. It starts with SATS at 7 and just never stops!

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Modern life, education, work, the economy it's all very stressful, I don't agree it's coddling at all in fact the opposite, I think kids are under far too much pressure too soon. It starts with SATS at 7 and just never stops!

I agree with that. I don't have an issue with high school tests really (14+) but the amount of testing at primary school age is ridiculous. Some basic, semi-covert, pressure free testing (they don't even need to know the results!) in order to assess ability levels and tailor learning accordingly is really all that's needed in primary school and yet it still seems to be ability groups / constant literacy and numeracy "scores" from as young as 6. It's stressful whatever the ability level. Kids who are struggling feel embarrassed... Kids who are in the top groups are given the constant threat of "being moved down a group" if they don't work hard enough. Mad.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not talking about the basics like washing your own clothes or how to make a food budget...

We're several generations deep into a society that has been deliberately driven towards debt by giant multinational financial institutions... So sure, in an ideal world parents would be prepping their kids thoroughly for this stuff, but in many cases they aren't. In many cases they don't even know how to do it for themselves, so how could they? I'm not talking about classes where someone stands at the front and says "don't get debts... Debts are bad, mmkay?" I'm talking about classes where things like loan terms, interest rates, potential consequences etc. are taught clearly by qualified financial experts. Parents can't teach these things because frankly, the majority of the time, they don't understand most of it themselves. These things have been deliberately obfuscated for decades.

And even if parents should do it, but aren't doing it, then what? "Tough ****, your parents shoulda taught you, toughen up!" is not an approach that works. It's an approach that leads to mental health problems and increases in suicide. We know this already.

I think you have the right assertion, but I don't agree with your assessment of the solution. The next generation is learning from the failures of the past, and vice-versa, so there will be some pick up there by the parents as it will be reinforced by their own experiences, hence modifying culture. However, putting further pressure on the schools to tackle these issue(s) is what created the one-size-fits-all monster approach in the first place...

The schools already do pick up for a great deal, especially in the way of financial resources and providing lessons in class. When I was in, these resources were re-offered to me on a regular basis and we were often pointed to these opportunities in classes and encouraged to seek them out. All one has to do is take advantage. However, expecting now schools must play financial advisors as well as the multitude of other social work they currently provide, that's why we have a declining educational system in the first place... typically that's what counselors were expected to do, except now they must also play a mental health role now and with so many different things to screen, it's more pressure. We had visiting advisors, the counselors would arrange these visits and we would have these programs in certain grades. Maybe the UK differs, but here I do feel like the resources are already adequate.

My other thought, because past generations were encouraged to be more self-sufficient and independent, the emotional maturity was that much higher. Therefore tackling these social and life issues and knowing how to use the information in a practical ways came much faster to those generations. It also helped to alleviate them of the burden of isolation, which helped to sustain their mental health while also enduring the trials of the young, as it gave them a perspective to feel the stepping stones under their feet, rather than just assuming things based on arbitrary and superficial messaging that is currently prominent throughout our society.

The last issue, culture and family structures emphasizes dependence in place of personal refinement and true independence (not just the pop culture variety), which means a person of 18 is far less mature than a person who was 18 even 40 years ago.

We already have more resources and information at our fingertips than any prior generation that has ever existed in the history of mankind, thanks to the internet. There's also exposure to other ideas in the form of online or even just supplemental readings that can be assigned in school, but it's not like educational opportunities are just restricted to the school systems now. Critical information is much more accessible than ever. They teach trades in community colleges for example here, and those are thriving in the US atm. Two colleges here have opened new campuses in my area as many folk have figured out they can go there to get a much cheaper education and they can also get access to trades through there as well... so the options are there.

Basically, where we differ on the problem, I see it as emotional development and mental health go hand in hand and it's the emotional development is where I think the ball is being dropped, not education. Emotional development plays a key role in fiscal outcomes as well. Schools can provide the tools by offering classes, services, counseling and host college/financial advisors on campus, which many do (and they all should imo). However, assuming the schools can do enough on their own to supplement poor parental involvement and the variety of other emotional deficits that are out there in society is not realistic. Schools have too many students to cater to in this specific of a way. The bar would have to lowered again and again in order to facilitate the kind of environment needed to help those who are not as emotionally self-sufficient. This is why education has declined overall, and has settled to focusing on becoming a college student mill, as these pathways are easier to target overall (and more likely to help many) and they can't possibly adequately address the specific needs of individual students when student populations are ever-growing and needs never-ending. So I think they try their best, but imo, they already do too much and not as well...

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree with that. I don't have an issue with high school tests really (14+) but the amount of testing at primary school age is ridiculous. Some basic, semi-covert, pressure free testing (they don't even need to know the results!) in order to assess ability levels and tailor learning accordingly is really all that's needed in primary school and yet it still seems to be ability groups / constant literacy and numeracy "scores" from as young as 6. It's stressful whatever the ability level. Kids who are struggling feel embarrassed... Kids who are in the top groups are given the constant threat of "being moved down a group" if they don't work hard enough. Mad.

How much testing is there in primary? We only had an annual standard test, but it wasn't anything terribly difficult. I don't remember if it even mattered towards grade advancement. I think that depended on individual assignments and teachers were really lenient. My uncle didn't do very well in school as we were close in age and he had to be held back a grade or two, but I don't think that lowering the bar would've changed that. He did pick up to an OK level eventually (but hard to work very hard), and he was in in a vocational program in high school (welding, electrician, plumbing, etc)... and went into the veterinary tech program when he was in college.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I do personally think that the school system is currently doing an absolutely piss poor job of setting up young people for the real world. Still pushing most kids towards academics (which isn't for everyone), still grades-focused rather than on a well rounded education, still pushing too many pointless subjects that are only relevant to people who actually want to pursue them further. Totally lacking in teaching basic, useful life skills like money management and how to avoid debt (and debt problems contribute MASSIVELY to mental health issues) and basic prep for adult life.

You just have kids leaving thrown into the deep end of an adult world and told that they suddenly must swim perfectly. No wonder people struggle.

Yeah totally,Not to mention pushing too many tests on them at a young age.
If my eldest is struggling with something or he’s losing motivation his teacher will say things like “lets get him back on track,I need him” making it obvious that what she’s actually worrying about is her test scores and not his wellbeing.
I just tell him not to worry about them.Just do your best but don’t think about it too much.Young kids should’nt have that pressure.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Modern life, education, work, the economy it's all very stressful, I don't agree it's coddling at all in fact the opposite, I think kids are under far too much pressure too soon. It starts with SATS at 7 and just never stops!

I agree.It’s actually 6 though.My lad’s got tests coming up at the end of the year and he’s only Year 1.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Maru

How much testing is there in primary? We only had an annual standard test, but it wasn't anything terribly difficult. I don't remember if it even mattered towards grade advancement. I think that depended on individual assignments and teachers were really lenient. My uncle didn't do very well in school as we were close in age and he had to be held back a grade or two, but I don't think that lowering the bar would've changed that. He did pick up to an OK level eventually (but hard to work very hard), and he was in in a vocational program in high school (welding, electrician, plumbing, etc)... and went into the veterinary tech program when he was in college.

There's the issue you don't have much of an idea of the issues facing kids in the education system in the UK, which to be fair make your earlier comments seem very unfair made judgement.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Maru

I think you have the right assertion, but I don't agree with your assessment of the solution. The next generation is learning from the failures of the past, and vice-versa, so there will be some pick up there by the parents as it will be reinforced by their own experiences, hence modifying culture. However, putting further pressure on the schools to tackle these issue(s) is what created the one-size-fits-all monster approach in the first place...

The schools already do pick up for a great deal, especially in the way of financial resources and providing lessons in class. When I was in, these resources were re-offered to me on a regular basis and we were often pointed to these opportunities in classes and encouraged to seek them out. All one has to do is take advantage. However, expecting now schools must play financial advisors as well as the multitude of other social work they currently provide, that's why we have a declining educational system in the first place... typically that's what counselors were expected to do, except now they must also play a mental health role now and with so many different things to screen, it's more pressure. We had visiting advisors, the counselors would arrange these visits and we would have these programs in certain grades. Maybe the UK differs, but here I do feel like the resources are already adequate.

My other thought, because past generations were encouraged to be more self-sufficient and independent, the emotional maturity was that much higher. Therefore tackling these social and life issues and knowing how to use the information in a practical ways came much faster to those generations. It also helped to alleviate them of the burden of isolation, which helped to sustain their mental health while also enduring the trials of the young, as it gave them a perspective to feel the stepping stones under their feet, rather than just assuming things based on arbitrary and superficial messaging that is currently prominent throughout our society.

The last issue, culture and family structures emphasizes dependence in place of personal refinement and true independence (not just the pop culture variety), which means a person of 18 is far less mature than a person who was 18 even 40 years ago.

We already have more resources and information at our fingertips than any prior generation that has ever existed in the history of mankind, thanks to the internet. There's also exposure to other ideas in the form of online or even just supplemental readings that can be assigned in school, but it's not like educational opportunities are just restricted to the school systems now. Critical information is much more accessible than ever. They teach trades in community colleges for example here, and those are thriving in the US atm. Two colleges here have opened new campuses in my area as many folk have figured out they can go there to get a much cheaper education and they can also get access to trades through there as well... so the options are there.

Basically, where we differ on the problem, I see it as emotional development and mental health go hand in hand and it's the emotional development is where I think the ball is being dropped, not education. Emotional development plays a key role in fiscal outcomes as well. Schools can provide the tools by offering classes, services, counseling and host college/financial advisors on campus, which many do (and they all should imo). However, assuming the schools can do enough on their own to supplement poor parental involvement and the variety of other emotional deficits that are out there in society is not realistic. Schools have too many students to cater to in this specific of a way. The bar would have to lowered again and again in order to facilitate the kind of environment needed to help those who are not as emotionally self-sufficient. This is why education has declined overall, and has settled to focusing on becoming a college student mill, as these pathways are easier to target overall (and more likely to help many) and they can't possibly adequately address the specific needs of individual students when student populations are ever-growing and needs never-ending. So I think they try their best, but imo, they already do too much and not as well...