[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

When I first joined this site in 2009, I joined with an avatar of James in my profile, as I have always been a supporter of the family, as my mom is close to this case,some on here then started to question why I had a picture of a dead baby in my profile,I explained my feelings then and why ,some of the longer standing members may still remember, I took the picture down as some seem offended by it, but I have and always will be behind the Bulger family as they have been through a truly terrible time , and it's not a new thing with me I have been a supporter for years.

[Matthew.]

Yeah the family definitely should have been asked first

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

#justice4Kaz

Originally Posted by AnnieK

#ibelievekaz

Originally Posted by Niamh.

#metoo

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

When I first joined this site in 2009, I joined with an avatar of James in my profile, as I have always been a supporter of the family, as my mom is close to this case,some on here then started to question why I had a picture of a dead baby in my profile,I explained my feelings then and why ,some of the longer standing members may still remember, I took the picture down as some seem offended by it, but I have and always will be behind the Bulger family as they have been through a truly terrible time , and it's not a new thing with me I have been a supporter for years.

I've been on the forum long enough to know full well you're a long time supporter of the family.

Again, that doesn't make your opinions more valid than anyone else's on Bulger related topics, anymore than someone who has given birth.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Her 2 year old child was tortured and murdered and you think she "lives for the attention of it" are you for ****ing real? ****ing disgusting.

The point I was trying to make is that hundreds of children are murdered every week in awful ways, none of them have tried to make a living out of it like she has, it’s gross. What happened to her was awful, nobody is denying that, but she will never have closure because all she ever does is talk about it and drag it up.

Originally Posted by Livia

Jezuz... that's cold, even for you.

Not really sure why you’re making personal comments but can’t say I’m surprised

[Ramsay]

I think it's pretty ****ty they didn't consult the family first

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Not really sure why you’re making personal comments but can’t say I’m surprised

Because it was cold. Even for you. But yeah, I wasn't surprised either.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I've been on the forum long enough to know full well you're a long time supporter of the family.



Again, that doesn't make your opinions more valid than anyone else's on Bulger related topics, anymore than someone who has given birth.

I dunno why you have such a chip on your shoulder about the parenting thing Marsh; it's perfectly legitimate (and logical) to say that someone who is a parent and has a child has a more experienced and informed opinion on matters related to being a parent or having children?

Why would that not be the case?

And why make comments like "it's not big or clever to pop out a child! Thick folks can have kids too!"

Like... Thick people learn to drive too. It's not big or clever to learn to drive, basically anyone can do it. But that doesn't mean that the opinion of a driver isn't better informed than a non-driver in a discussion about road etiquette. It's not that other people can't have an opinion or that their opinion might not be correct or valid, or that a driver can't be totally wrong about some topics (God knows, there are plenty of disagreements) it's just pretty obvious that there IS a difference between the opinions. Surely.

I mean you can say it about anything! Building a PC isn't hard. Look at a few YouTube videos and BillyBob with an IQ of 80 can do it but once he's done it, his advice on building one yourself is going to be better than a certified genius who has never even looked inside one?

These are probably crap examples but you can see my point. Surely.

Its ludicrous for people to say "I don't have any kids but I know just as much about how a parent feels for their children as those who do!". Like... How? And how could you possibly know if that statement is true?

I can say with some certainty - as a parent and a self confessed ex-non parent (I spend decades being one of those ) that while yes as a non-parent it's perfectly possible to empathise with the emotions that a parent feels about their offspring... It's not the same as having them. It just isn't. And you also sort of have to accept that every parent has BOTH perspectives because every parent HAS BEEN a non parent, whereas obviously, those who are not parents only have ONE perspective and can only possibly be guessing about the other.

So no its not big, it's not clever, it's not difficult to have kids, it's not a "moral victory" or any sort of achievement but it does usually result in a shift in perspective. I don't know why so many non-parents take issue with that.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Smithy

The point I was trying to make is that hundreds of children are murdered every week in awful ways, none of them have tried to make a living out of it like she has, it’s gross. What happened to her was awful, nobody is denying that, but she will never have closure because all she ever does is talk about it and drag it up.

She'll never have closure, full stop. I don't think anyone can truly have closure in this instance, but going on a tv show for an interview where everyone is nice to you, where you're able to tell your story can provide at least a little bit of closure. I don't blame her for using them as platforms, people handle grief differently. Plus, it's her story to tell, after all.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I dunno why you have such a chip on your shoulder about the parenting thing Marsh; it's perfectly legitimate (and logical) to say that someone who is a parent and has a child has a more experienced and informed opinion on matters related to being a parent or having children?

Why would that not be the case?

Except... we're not discussing how to raise a child, how formula works, the best brand of nappies or the best education system.

We're discussing a murder. So, no, I won't be told my opinion isn't as valid as someone who has had a child because it's complete bollocks. We can ALL relate to losing loved ones, as Livia said you don't have to be a parent to know or understand or comprehend the loss of a child. It's universal.

But, yeah, maybe the magical superiority that enters a person once they've had sex and conceived a child means the ones murdered by their parents are right too.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So no its not big, it's not clever, it's not difficult to have kids, it's not a "moral victory" or any sort of achievement but it does usually result in a shift in perspective. I don't know why so many non-parents take issue with that.

Has nothing to do with having kids.

A lot of parents don't have that perspective and a lot of non-parents do. Having a child simply isn't a valid argument in this case.

Next you'll be telling me age denotes maturity.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Except... we're not discussing how to raise a child, how formula works, the best brand of nappies or the best education system.

We're discussing a murder. So, no, I won't be told my opinion isn't as valid as someone who has had a child because it's complete bollocks. We can ALL relate to losing loved ones, as Livia said you don't have to be a parent to know or understand or comprehend the loss of a child. It's universal.

But, yeah, maybe the magical superiority that enters a person once they've had sex and conceived a child means the ones murdered by their parents are right too.

I disagree but I fully accept that you have a different opinion; I just cannot fathom why you're salty enough about it to be unable to even debate it reasonably and without the 'tude.

Maybe becoming a parent makes one more mature in that way, too .

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Has nothing to do with having kids.



A lot of parents don't have that perspective and a lot of non-parents do. Having a child simply isn't a valid argument in this case.



Next you'll be telling me age denotes maturity.

Again you're stating your opinions as fact; you don't (and can't possibly) know if and how your life perspectives will change if or when you have children. It's literally impossible. It can only be hypothesis?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I disagree but I fully accept that you have a different opinion; I just cannot fathom why you're salty enough about it to be unable to even debate it reasonably and without the 'tude.

Maybe becoming a parent makes one more mature in that way, too .

Having my opinion on the actual topic of the thread dismissed because I don't have an offspring will make me salty. I can't fathom why I'm being asked to debate a ridiculous notion instead of the actual topic of the thread. It's a diversion tactic, nothing more.

But then as a qualified parent I'm sure you can explain it.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Art isn't always pretty, it's not just a portrait you hang up in the living room but a reflection of humanity both good and bad. You can't just focus on the good things, you've got to take the good with the bad.

The family do have every right to be disgusted, everyone is entitled to their reactions but the truth is that the story doesn't belong to just them. People will always talk about Jamie Bulger because cases like that are rare, there are going to be TV shows and documentaries made about it for years to come and the best thing the family can do in cases like this is to just ignore it since speaking out has the same effect as promoting it and everyone is talking about the film now when before no one would have known it was a thing.

Cept the oscars (the biggest awards ceremony) did.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again you're stating your opinions as fact; you don't (and can't possibly) know if and how your life perspectives will change if or when you have children. It's literally impossible. It can only be hypothesis?

Except.... I didn't say perspectives, opinions etc don't or can't change with life experiences. You've missed the point.

I'm saying having children (or not) doesn't automatically make your perspective more valid or otherwise. Especially on a topic like this.

The action of "having a child" simply does not automatically give anyone a more valid perspective. It's bollocks.

[AnnieK]

The rush of unconditional love that most, not all most, parent's have on the birth of their child in indescribable. However, as a parent we also dont know how we would deal with the brutal horrific murder of that child unless it happens to us (which I hope not one of us ever has to really think about let alone live through) so yes, we can empathise with the Bulgers but we are also the same as any non parent in not knowing how we would deal with it. I always said if anything ever happened and I lost my son, I would want to go with him so he wasn't alone,it just doesn't bear thinking about but unless (god forbid) anything did happen I don't know how I would react to anything

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Cept the oscars (the biggest awards ceremony) did.

Of course they did. It's basically the point of them.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Except.... I didn't say perspectives, opinions etc don't or can't change with life experiences. You've missed the point.

I'm saying having children (or not) doesn't automatically make your perspective more valid or otherwise. Especially on a topic like this.

The action of "having a child" simply does not automatically give anyone a more valid perspective. It's bollocks.

What about parents who have lost a child, do they?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

The rush of unconditional love that most, not all most, parent's have on the birth of their child in indescribable. However, as a parent we also dont know how we would deal with the brutal horrific murder of that child unless it happens to us (which I hope not one of us ever has to really think about let alone live through) so yes, we can empathise with the Bulgers but we are also the same as any non parent in not knowing how we would deal with it. I always said if anything ever happened and I lost my son, I would want to go with him so he wasn't alone,it just doesn't bear thinking about but unless (god forbid) anything did happen I don't know how I would react to anything

Exactly.

And also, not every parent feels the same towards their child, some parents feel absolutely nothing towards them so it's a meaningless generalisation for people to make.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

What about parents who have lost a child, do they?

You mean someone who... has gone through the exact same thing as Denise? Take a wild guess.

[thesheriff443]

Romans used to set lions onto slaves and people would watch.

The internet has made the most horrific scenes viewable at the click of a button.

People would not make these films if no one would watch them and even if you banned them that would only make people want to watch them more.

Humans are closer to animals than we think.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

You mean someone who... has gone through the exact same thing as Denise? Take a wild guess.

No, just someone whos kid has passed away, do they have a better percpective on her feelings on the matter?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

No, just someone whos kid has passed away, do they have a better percpective on her feelings on the matter?

Better than what?

We're discussing the validity of people's opinions and the ability to empathise.

Someone who HAS actually experienced something is a completely different story.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by parmnion

No, just someone whos kid has passed away, do they have a better percpective on her feelings on the matter?

Certainly have more of an insight to the pain and suffering parm....