[ThomasC]

Alcohol drinkation tax hasn't even come in yet...

Already taxes higher, well manufacturers on soft drinks with sugar....

Sunak’s five-point plan, which takes effect in 2023, will simplify the tax brackets at an overall cost to the Treasury of £555m by 2027. The plans will cut the cost of a range of drinks but increase the duty levied on wine with alcohol content above 11%, such as high-strength ciders and fortified like port and Buckfast.


So because I like a high strength cider I am going to be penalised!

Edit, well not ciders because that would be ridiculous strength, blow me socks off...but I am partial to a bottle of rose.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Alcohol drinkation tax hasn't even come in yet...

Already taxes higher, well manufacturers on soft drinks with sugar....

Sunak’s five-point plan, which takes effect in 2023, will simplify the tax brackets at an overall cost to the Treasury of £555m by 2027. The plans will cut the cost of a range of drinks but increase the duty levied on wine with alcohol content above 11%, such as high-strength ciders and fortified like port and Buckfast.


So because I like a high strength cider I am going to be penalised!

Edit, well not ciders because that would be ridiculous strength, blow me socks off...but I am partial to a bottle of rose.

The highest strength cider I've ever had ..was over 7% alcohol I think. Frosty jack will send you wobbly,if you guzzle too much of it LOL.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

The highest strength cider I've ever had ..was over 7% alcohol I think. Frosty jack will send you wobbly,if you guzzle too much of it LOL.

Ahhh, trip down memory lane and not a good one either. I regularly use to drink frosty jack's. Ewww, what was I thinking. Cheap and nasty.

[UserSince2005]

It should be illegal in public. Fed up of getting fumes in my face as I walk down the street.

[parmnion]

https://images.app.goo.gl/BKwosMTyMrwKMCCW8

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

It should be illegal in public. Fed up of getting fumes in my face as I walk down the street.

Cross the pavement? It's a public street meaning it's not just yours, it's the publics'

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

You do realise that the government got 10.27 billion last year in tax from smokers?

It funds more than costs to treat from illness arising from smoking. It's a gigantic cash cow.

I think it's bull****, just more cancel culture and PC. We've gone from not allowing smoking in pubs, to not having pictures on packets, to cigs not allowed to be displayed, to banning menthol.

I'm an adult so feck right off!! People will do what they want at the end of the day, as much as you try to discourage kids from starting.

It's same with sugar tax, why should I have to suffer because some can't stop filling their holes? Same with drinking!

Not my problem some can't moderate their intake.

Madness.

What next?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's because they're all vaping, which is potentially no better.

I only vape CBD.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Good, that’ll do until it’s rightfully banned all together

Why so rightfully though? Why is it the business of non-smokers what smokers choose to do and put in their lungs?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

It should be illegal in public. Fed up of getting fumes in my face as I walk down the street.

People can get that close with your big head in the way luv.

[thesheriff443]

Well done niamh
Smokers are easy targets, the air that none smokers breath is full harmful toxins that are produced by people making millions who will continue to do so unregulated

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

People can get that close with your big head in the way luv.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Redway

I only vape CBD.

I should give this a go.

It's suppose to have major benefits.

It might calm me down

I bought some ages a go but it was a liquid you sprayed on your tongue and was unflavoured....it was vile.

[Toy Soldier]

To be fair I largely agree that adults can do what they want with their lungs so long as they're fully informed of the risks, and it doesn't affect others. I smoked (socially, not habitually) through my late teens and Uni, so I'd say about 15 (estimated based on buying a pack of 20 and usually giving a few away) a week for 7 years, which I guess is a fair number of cigarettes. I also wouldn't say I regret it. I enjoyed that period of my life for what it was and got it out of my system .

[Toy Soldier]

What DOES need tackling is the vape issue with kids and young teens. Yes some kids started smoking young but the vape issue is on another level - my daughter has only just started high school and so many kids (12 and 13 year olds) are doing it. FAR more than were smoking at that age when I was young, half my daughters year group seem to be doing it, and we have no idea what the long term consequences are. There are cheap, colourful disposable fruity ones that seem to be practically aimed at kids .

[Oliver_W]

Tbh I think America has the right idea when it comes to allowed ages for things - 21 for smoking and alcohol, 18 for sex.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What DOES need tackling is the vape issue with kids and young teens. Yes some kids started smoking young but the vape issue is on another level - my daughter has only just started high school and so many kids (12 and 13 year olds) are doing it. FAR more than were smoking at that age when I was young, half my daughters year group seem to be doing it, and we have no idea what the long term consequences are. There are cheap, colourful disposable fruity ones that seem to be practically aimed at kids .

I once saw (what I assume was) a joke article that said kids were taking up cigarettes to get them off vapes

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What DOES need tackling is the vape issue with kids and young teens. Yes some kids started smoking young but the vape issue is on another level - my daughter has only just started high school and so many kids (12 and 13 year olds) are doing it. FAR more than were smoking at that age when I was young, half my daughters year group seem to be doing it, and we have no idea what the long term consequences are. There are cheap, colourful disposable fruity ones that seem to be practically aimed at kids .

What's the lessee of the two evils;?

Just to throw some research out there;

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e...andmark-review

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/hea...sionals/safety

Although I can't argue that we don't know enough about them although I think it's fair to say they are LESS harmful than traditional cigarettes.

Nicotine is the addiction substance. Just because you vape it doesn't have to contain nicotine. The most harmful of chemicals is tar which you don't get with e cigarettes. Just compare the chemicals in the two, 4 or 4000.

Education plays a big role because there are certain chemicals found in eliquids such as diacytal which can cause lung damage. This is banned in the UK in e liquids, but it's good to have an awareness as there are unregulated liquids.

Vapes have always been quite colourful and more are brought to market as it's supply and demand. For a lot of people it's a hobby from buying mods, making liquids, making coils....and the vast around of liquids and adaptations you can buy.

There's even talk about them being a a smoking cessation aid

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e...in-world-first

A lot like to jump on the bandwagon with this subject, all high and mighty not having the first clue about e cigarettes. Not saying you but just generally.

[ThomasC]

Key findings of the review include:

the current best estimate is that e-cigarettes are around 95% less harmful than smoking
nearly half the population (44.8%) don’t realise e-cigarettes are much less harmful than smoking
there is no evidence so far that e-cigarettes are acting as a route into smoking for children or non-smokers

I do appreciate this is from 2015, but it proves a point I'm making

[ThomasC]

E-cigarettes are a relatively new product – they aren’t risk free and we don’t yet know their long-term impact. We strongly discourage people who haven’t smoked from using them.

However, there are misconceptions among a large proportion of the public that e-cigarettes are equally or more harmful than smoking[1] Research to date actually indicates that they are less harmful as they don’t contain tobacco or involve combustion.

Here you will find a summary of the current available information on the relative safety of e-cigarettes compared to tobacco.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What DOES need tackling is the vape issue with kids and young teens. Yes some kids started smoking young but the vape issue is on another level - my daughter has only just started high school and so many kids (12 and 13 year olds) are doing it. FAR more than were smoking at that age when I was young, half my daughters year group seem to be doing it, and we have no idea what the long term consequences are. There are cheap, colourful disposable fruity ones that seem to be practically aimed at kids .

Ministers are not expected to green-light Mr Khan's recommendations straight away.

They will consider them as part of a wider package of measures they are looking to introduce this year to improve the health of the nation and tackle inequalities.

Mr Khan is also expected to recommend:

a levy on the tobacco companies' profits
greater promotion of vaping as an alternative to smoking
extra investment in NHS stop-smoking services
It will be up to the devolved nations to decide whether they follow suit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61718468

---------------------------------------------

vaping is considered much safer than smoking by health professionals and government so I think you are on a lost cause there

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Ministers are not expected to green-light Mr Khan's recommendations straight away.

They will consider them as part of a wider package of measures they are looking to introduce this year to improve the health of the nation and tackle inequalities.

Mr Khan is also expected to recommend:

a levy on the tobacco companies' profits
greater promotion of vaping as an alternative to smoking
extra investment in NHS stop-smoking services
It will be up to the devolved nations to decide whether they follow suit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61718468

---------------------------------------------

vaping is considered much safer than smoking by health professionals and government so I think you are on a lost cause there

What a breath of fresh air.

I concur

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I'm like that with food, can't be in the house or I'll eat it, bad food that is. I'm focused at the minute so doing well



I think raising the smoking age will not do much.

Even those under 18 find ways to smoke, fake ID, others buying them.

It's also at the detriment, not the increase in age, but other changes that impacts on adults.

Education and ID checks, parental guidance can help to a degree. Peer pressure will always be a thing.

Same with sugar tax and drink.

Tricky one really. It may reduce, but not eradicate the problem of under age smokers.....

Yes I agree really, I don't think raising the age will have any effect at all. Underage smoking as it is, is at an all time low (I'm guessing here but I think I'm probably right?)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Well done niamh
Smokers are easy targets, the air that none smokers breath is full harmful toxins that are produced by people making millions who will continue to do so unregulated

Thank you

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

What's the lessee of the two evils;?

Just to throw some research out there;

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e...andmark-review

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/hea...sionals/safety

Although I can't argue that we don't know enough about them although I think it's fair to say they are LESS harmful than traditional cigarettes.

Nicotine is the addiction substance. Just because you vape it doesn't have to contain nicotine. The most harmful of chemicals is tar which you don't get with e cigarettes. Just compare the chemicals in the two, 4 or 4000.

Education plays a big role because there are certain chemicals found in eliquids such as diacytal which can cause lung damage. This is banned in the UK in e liquids, but it's good to have an awareness as there are unregulated liquids.

Vapes have always been quite colourful and more are brought to market as it's supply and demand. For a lot of people it's a hobby from buying mods, making liquids, making coils....and the vast around of liquids and adaptations you can buy.

There's even talk about them being a a smoking cessation aid

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e...in-world-first

A lot like to jump on the bandwagon with this subject, all high and mighty not having the first clue about e cigarettes. Not saying you but just generally.

It's not a straight comparison though because I'm not saying that vaping is as bad as smoking per-individual, the evidence we have thus far is that it's much safer (but worth bearing in mind that there is no data over the long term, and there won't be for several decades, because vaping is still relatively new).

If you were to say "what's worse, five 12 year olds in the year group smoking or five 12 year olds in the year group vaping?" I'd agree with you that it's better for them to be vaping every time. I also highly doubt it's a "gateway to smoking" - I imagine they'll just continue vaping. If it was a FEW more vaping then I'd even still consider that balance. But that's not what I'm observing. I'd say when I was at at the beginning of high school (age 12) there were a tiny handful of kids in the year group (of about 150 kids) smoking. My daughter is 12 now and it's more like 1/3 of her entire year group that's vaping regularly so 50+ kids.

This is imperfect science; different schools on different sides of the country and 20 years apart... perhaps her school is demographically different to how mine was... but I don't think that accounts for the massive difference in numbers. It's becoming increasingly normalised for young teens (children) to vape. There's no data at all on the health effects in children.

As above - I don't really care at all what adults do, so long as it isn't affecting the health of others and they have the facts. I'm not saying "ban them for the sake of the children!" - I'm just saying more needs to be done to tackle the increasing problem of school-age kids using them. Heavier fines/punishments for any adult found to be selling or supplying to kids, for example.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not a straight comparison though because I'm not saying that vaping is as bad as smoking per-individual, the evidence we have thus far is that it's much safer (but worth bearing in mind that there is no data over the long term, and there won't be for several decades, because vaping is still relatively new).

If you were to say "what's worse, five 12 year olds in the year group smoking or five 12 year olds in the year group vaping?" I'd agree with you that it's better for them to be vaping every time. I also highly doubt it's a "gateway to smoking" - I imagine they'll just continue vaping. If it was a FEW more vaping then I'd even still consider that balance. But that's not what I'm observing. I'd say when I was at at the beginning of high school (age 12) there were a tiny handful of kids in the year group (of about 150 kids) smoking. My daughter is 12 now and it's more like 1/3 of her entire year group that's vaping regularly so 50+ kids.

This is imperfect science; different schools on different sides of the country and 20 years apart... perhaps her school is demographically different to how mine was... but I don't think that accounts for the massive difference in numbers. It's becoming increasingly normalised for young teens (children) to vape. There's no data at all on the health effects in children.

As above - I don't really care at all what adults do, so long as it isn't affecting the health of others and they have the facts. I'm not saying "ban them for the sake of the children!" - I'm just saying more needs to be done to tackle the increasing problem of school-age kids using them. Heavier fines/punishments for any adult found to be selling or supplying to kids, for example.

Can't disagree with any of that.

I think if children weren't vaping they do something else
.. trend setting, peer pressure. I know I started smoking at school to fit in as it was a social aspect and smokers would meet in a certain area.

It's not ideal, but there's worse things children could be doing, not necessarily saying it's right, but when trying to maybe strike a balance as a parent.... If my child was vaping, I would rather that than them be prostituting, taking drugs, drinking in massive excess, anti social behaviour, exclusion, theft, assault to just name a few.

Yes, more could be done, but a big problem is that children will get hold of them regardless. A colleague of mine found about 12 vape pens in her son's draw.