[Redway]

I know this thread has been done to death on here but the latest controversy over Richard Dawkin's comments on Down Syndrome got me thinking about the whole issue in a broader context, not just for disabled babies ... do you agree with abortion or do you disagree?

[Livia]

I agree insomuch as it's the right of the woman to choose, and so long as it's done in the early stages, definitely under 12 weeks unless it's a medical emergency. I don't believe in abortion as a form of contraception and I don't believe in women being allowed repeated abortions.

[Tom4784]

Their body, their choice. I don't think men should get much of a choice in the matter, we don't carry the child or the risks involved in doing so. Whether a woman wants to go through with a pregnancy or not is their choice and their choice alone.

[the truth]

in right if rape or health risk, otherwise it is wrong and should be outlawed

[Ninastar]

IMO it's totally wrong... I think there's a disgusting 'idea' if you will, that if people have unprotected sex, they thing 'well if worse comes to the worse, abortion'. I think people dont realise how wrong it is in most cases. It's so easy to get an abortion here, i know quite a few girls that have. and I personally think it's wrong.

However, I do think it's it's just as wrong to 'force' someone to have that baby. I guess I'd rather people 'abort' their unwanted baby, than raise a baby they never wanted.

I just wish these people who wanted to abort their babies would give adoption a thought. It rarely happens in this country and I think it's such a shame. I think a hell of a lot more needs to be done. My worst hate in the world is bad parents. Some people just shouldn't be them... I find that in most cases, the parents are the worst are ones who didn't plan on having them/hardly even like kids. I just wish they'd realise that kids aren't just something you can raise with having no clue about. You have to care about them and do everything you can for them... Anyway, that's going OT...

Too long didnt read - I don't really believe in it, but I think it's better than allowing people who might not handle being a parent, become a parent.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

IMO it's totally wrong... I think there's a disgusting 'idea' if you will, that if people have unprotected sex, they thing 'well if worse comes to the worse, abortion'. I think people dont realise how wrong it is in most cases. It's so easy to get an abortion here, i know quite a few girls that have. and I personally think it's wrong.

However, I do think it's it's just as wrong to 'force' someone to have that baby. I guess I'd rather people 'abort' their unwanted baby, than raise a baby they never wanted.

I just wish these people who wanted to abort their babies would give adoption a thought. It rarely happens in this country and I think it's such a shame. I think a hell of a lot more needs to be done. My worst hate in the world is bad parents. Some people just shouldn't be them... I find that in most cases, the parents are the worst are ones who didn't plan on having them/hardly even like kids. I just wish they'd realise that kids aren't just something you can raise with having no clue about. You have to care about them and do everything you can for them... Anyway, that's going OT...

Too long didnt read - I don't really believe in it, but I think it's better than allowing people who might not handle being a parent, become a parent.

Great post. Aborting a child is the cowards way out.

[coffee]

I AM PRO-CHOICE

Doesn't need to be if health risks or rape. If you are not ready to bring a baby into this world and you feel for you abortion is right then do it if you want to. It would be better if you just used protection but if you ever find yourself in this situation then at least after it all, don't get yourself in it again.

[Ninastar]

oh and before people jump on me for saying that it's easy enough to get an abortion, I mean to go to the doctors and ask for one. Not the actual process... i imagine that cant be very nice.

[Anaesthesia]

I am an adoptee, so I guess I'm glad my mother didn't believe it was the right thing to do!

Saying that, I am 100% pro-choice, with more or less the provisos Livia has already expressed.

[JoshBB]

It's wrong to abort imo, but the mother should have every right to abort the baby under the correct circumstances (eg. rape).

[Firewire]

I'm male, I shouldn't have an opinion other than it should be up to the woman.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by the truth

Great post. Aborting a child is the cowards way out.

Spoken like a truly ignorant man who'll never know what it's like to be pregnant. Don't judge someone for their actions when you'll never be in their situation.

[coffee]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Spoken like a truly ignorant man who'll never know what it's like to be pregnant. Don't judge someone for their actions when you'll never be in their situation.

[Vicky.]

I am pro-choice. However I completely disagree with people who have multiple abortions and use it as a contraceptive almost (I know these people are few and far between though)

[Liam-]

I believe that you shouldn't get yourself into a position where you have an unwanted pregnancy in the first place (Obviously not including rape) but it happens, so if a woman feels that she wouldn't be able to cope with having a baby and isn't ready for one, then It's their choice and their choice alone whether or not to have an abortion, considering the women are the ones who have to go through with either the pregnancy or abortion, then it is 100% down to the woman and her wants, no-one else should have a say in the matter.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Spoken like a truly ignorant man who'll never know what it's like to be pregnant. Don't judge someone for their actions when you'll never be in their situation.

spoken like a truly ignorant person who doesnt care about the mass murder of millions of healthy babies, in addition to the pressure put on women to have abortions and the lack of time taken to offer them and the fathers time , counselling and support to show them all the options open to them, including adoption, shame on you

[Redway]

the truth should be banned from threads like this

[Toy Soldier]

I don't believe that it should be made illegal, purely because of the massive can of worms that prohibition (in any form) opens up. People will always do what they want, whatever it is, making something illegal only serves to de-regulate and push actions underground. Which is never a good idea.

However - I personally find "convenience abortions" morally abhorrent ("I'm not ready", "It's too expensive", "I just don't want one", "blah blah blah economic position snore"... etc.). I honestly fully believe that anyone who isn't ready to accept the POSSIBLE consequences of having sex, shouldn't be having sex in the first place. Contraception used properly is almost completely effective but anyone (female OR male) "going all the way" should deal with the consequences. My eldest was conceived when I was 22 and my (now) wife was 20. I'm not going to pretend that I was like "oh, how lovely!". We were in a blind ****ing panic for months. But we just dealt with it, because we chose to have sex, and when it comes down to it... sex = babies. If you are ABSOLUTELY 100% definitely not ready to accept the possibility of parenthood, there are a myriad of other sexual activities that you can engage in that carry zero risk of pregnancy.

Finally... following on from the Dawkins thread - I'm not "hardcore pro-life" in all circumstances. There ARE circumstances under which I actually think it's the "right" choice - there are some genuinely horrific and agonising birth defects that essentially guarantee a few weeks / months of pain, followed by inevitable death. I don't think any good can come of an existence like that. There are also "mid-level" disabilities where I think it's a bit of a grey area but again, for me, really what it comes down to is whether or not there will be actual physical suffering and to what degree.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LiamPRW

I believe that you shouldn't get yourself into a position where you have an unwanted pregnancy in the first place (Obviously not including rape) but it happens, so if a woman feels that she wouldn't be able to cope with having a baby and isn't ready for one, then It's their choice and their choice alone whether or not to have an abortion, considering the women are the ones who have to go through with either the pregnancy or abortion, then it is 100% down to the woman and her wants, no-one else should have a say in the matter.

time should be taken to give the mothers and fathers all the information and all the options, rather than rushing into killing babies. thousands of women and men later regret this decision, they often complain they felt pressurised or rushed and crucially they say they dont feel their were well informed enough about the options open to them , such as adoption and fostering etc
many live to regret this killing of the baby, it haunts the rest of their lives. in some cases these parents can never conceive again either. so much misery, so much pain and tragedy so much massive eternal regret , so must lost promise , lost opportunity, lost love, so many millions of lost innocent babies and broken hearted parents. and why all this misery? to satisfy the femi nazis

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by the truth

spoken like a truly ignorant person who doesnt care about the mass murder of millions of healthy babies, in addition to the pressure put on women to have abortions and the lack of time taken to offer them and the fathers time , counselling and support to show them all the options open to them, including adoption, shame on you

At the point of being allowed to have an abortion, it isn't a baby, it hasn't got any sustainable advancement.. and the 'pressure' put on women to have abortions? I'm pretty sure no-one is pressured into having abortions.
The point of having an abortion is to put a stop to an unwanted pregnancy, so why would adoption be a better option for someone who doesn't want to go through with one?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Redway

the truth should be banned from threads like this

yey lets have fascism...typical radical liberal, free speech for all unless you disagree with me, what a sick joke

yes ban the truth, without the truth all thats left is lies and millions of dead innocent babies

[Toy Soldier]

I do also wish that more people would consider adoption as an option. People often quote the "over-stretched care system" as a reason not to, but that is in fact only because of older children entering care. There is a HUGE demand (from infertile and same-sex couples) for adoption of newborn babies. I've heard people argue against it saying that it isn't fair because of how hard it would be for the mother to give up the child but... wtf? When the alternative is just killing it in the womb? Ummmm...

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LiamPRW

At the point of being allowed to have an abortion, it isn't a baby, it hasn't got any sustainable advancement.. and the 'pressure' put on women to have abortions? I'm pretty sure no-one is pressured into having abortions.
The point of having an abortion is to put a stop to an unwanted pregnancy, so why would adoption be a better option for someone who doesn't want to go through with one?

pretty sure? you havent got aclue what your etalking about , tens of thousands of women complain they felt pressured and rushed into having abortions and felt that no one took the time to explain all the other options available. the pressure can come from the medical staff, the her parents, her family, her partner , her new partner etc etc vast numbers of women regret it forever, so too do many fathers

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LiamPRW

the 'pressure' put on women to have abortions? I'm pretty sure no-one is pressured into having abortions.
The point of having an abortion is to put a stop to an unwanted pregnancy, so why would adoption be a better option for someone who doesn't want to go through with one?

There is pressure, often from family or the "father" but also the pressure of societal exectation.

There are many women who have rushed (or been rushed) into choosing abortion who go on to regret it for the rest of their life. There are women who regret it almost instantly after it's too late and go on to suffer from depression or even post-traumatic stress disorder. To try to claim otherwise is just false... and grossly offensive to anyone who has chosen, and later, regretted, abortion.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I do also wish that more people would consider adoption as an option. People often quote the "over-stretched care system" as a reason not to, but that is in fact only because of older children entering care. There is a HUGE demand (from infertile and same-sex couples) for adoption of newborn babies. I've heard people argue against it saying that it isn't fair because of how hard it would be for the mother to give up the child but... wtf? When the alternative is just killing it in the womb? Ummmm...

I'm not sure the argument against it is quite that it would be hard to give up the child...more along the lines of hard to go through 9 months of pregnancy (from my experience that is NOT easy at all) and then labour, and then to give the child up. I know we are more medically advanced today too but there is also still risks involved with labour and birth. I very nearly needed a blood transfusion with my latest child :S