FROSTYGATE

[ANTCOLONY]

Bea was wrong
Lisa got bullied into handing over her frosties
Glad hira left
she was just in there for the money
:elephant:

[Vicky.]

LOL at you reckoning lisa was bullied.

[SocietyIsRuined]

They weren't even proper Frosties(tm) they were the cheap Tesco rip off. Not worth having at all. :tongue:

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by SocietyIsRuined
They weren't even proper Frosties(tm) they were the cheap Tesco rip off. Not worth having at all. :tongue:

I said exactly the same thing.

Arguing over real frosties is bad, but arguing over 20p a box rabbit food is worse.

[ANTCOLONY]

Originally posted by VickyJ
LOL at you reckoning lisa was bullied.

she was
lisa likes frosties
freddy and the rest were ar**holes for backing up bea's finger pointing

[Twilight]

PMSL at lisa was bullied:laugh:
But how weird is that i was eating some frosy's when they had that fight:laugh:

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Originally posted by VickyJ
LOL at you reckoning lisa was bullied.

she was
lisa likes frosties
freddy and the rest were ar**holes for backing up bea's finger pointing

If you are serious, I pity you.

[ange7]

Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Bea was wrong
Lisa got bullied into handing over her frosties
Glad hira left
she was just in there for the money
:elephant:
how was bea wrong? .... for sharing her cigs and then expecting selfish Lisa to do the same?
Lol@" Lisa got bullied" ..how ridiculous

[ANTCOLONY]

Originally posted by VickyJ
Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Originally posted by VickyJ
LOL at you reckoning lisa was bullied.

she was
lisa likes frosties
freddy and the rest were ar**holes for backing up bea's finger pointing

If you are serious, I pity you.

Bea EXPECTED the frosties
f** her:dog:

[Libra]

I thought that it showed everything about Lisa, she was quite happy to ponce fags off Bea all of the previous day, but then wouldn't consider a friendly gesture in return?

And her pitiful "But Bay..I raily loike Frostiz" was cringey.

As Siavash said, Lisa is one selfish woman and Bea was stupid to think she would get a favour from her.

I also loved the way Lisa went into the bedroom all smarmy "Errrmmm Bay, con I av a word in the gardin plays??

Then came out of the bedroom muttering.

Then when they were in the garden she offered Bea the Frosties, shook hands, called it quits, but then told David she's absolutely ripped seven bells out of Bea...

On the other hand, Bea made too big a deal of it and I think she realised that in the end when she said it was pathetic to be arguing over a packet of Frosties.

And it was.

Bea should just have shrugged and said fair enough, then next time Lisa was on the scrounge for fags she should have told her to go forth and multiply.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by Libra
I thought that it showed everything about Lisa, she was quite happy to ponce fags off Bea all of the previous day, but then wouldn't consider a friendly gesture in return?

And her pitiful "But Bay..I raily loike Frostiz" was cringey.

As Siavash said, Lisa is one selfish woman and Bea was stupid to think she would get a favour from her.

I also loved the way Lisa went into the bedroom all smarmy "Errrmmm Bay, con I av a word in the gardin plays??

Then came out of the bedroom muttering.

Then when they were in the garden she offered Bea the Frosties, shook hands, called it quits, but then told David she's absolutely ripped seven bells out of Bea...

On the other hand, Bea made too big a deal of it and I think she realised that in the end when she said it was pathetic to be arguing over a packet of Frosties.

And it was.

Bea should just have shrugged and said fair enough, then next time Lisa was on the scrounge for fags she should have told her to go forth and multiply.

Yes that would be the best way to deal with it.

Wait for the next time lisa asks her for something and then say no, point blank.

See how she likes it.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Originally posted by VickyJ
Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Originally posted by VickyJ
LOL at you reckoning lisa was bullied.

she was
lisa likes frosties
freddy and the rest were ar**holes for backing up bea's finger pointing

If you are serious, I pity you.

Bea EXPECTED the frosties
f** her:dog:

That still doesnt mean she bullied lisa :laugh:

[BB22]

As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of people have simply started to lose their grip on what the word "bully" actually means. Bea was in the wrong but the idea that Lisa was bullied is utterly preposterous.

[Jordan.]

Lisa: But i love frosties. :hugesmile:

[ange7]

Originally posted by BB22
As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of people have simply started to lose their grip on what the word "bully" actually means. Bea was in the wrong but the idea that Lisa was bullied is utterly preposterous.
why was bea in the wrong?

[ange7]

Originally posted by SPIDERPIG!
Lisa: But i love frosties. :hugesmile:
lol

[ANTCOLONY]

Originally posted by BB22
As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of people have simply started to lose their grip on what the word "bully" actually means. Bea was in the wrong but the idea that Lisa was bullied is utterly preposterous.

Lisa got bullied because they all ganged up on her
Bea shared her cigarettes but its the height of bad manners to expect **** in return for SHARING something
and then to bang on about it and get your stupid mates to back you up
lisa WAS bullied

[Twilight]

ANTCOLONY are you drunk?

[BB22]

Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by BB22
As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of people have simply started to lose their grip on what the word "bully" actually means. Bea was in the wrong but the idea that Lisa was bullied is utterly preposterous.
why was bea in the wrong?

If you gift someone something of your own free will then I feel it is inappropriate and impolite to openly demand a repayment and to complain when, having put them on the spot, someone says no. If one feels very strongly about it then one might discuss it with the person in private but I think the most appropriate course of action is simply to keep one's own counsel and take the sequence of events into account in one's further dealings with the person.

I think Lisa is vile quite generally but Bea simply behaved inappropriately, in my view.

[ANTCOLONY]

Originally posted by Twilight
ANTCOLONY are you drunk?

im just saying what happened and showing up the popular gang for being ar**holes

[BB22]

Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Originally posted by BB22
As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of people have simply started to lose their grip on what the word "bully" actually means. Bea was in the wrong but the idea that Lisa was bullied is utterly preposterous.

Lisa got bullied because they all ganged up on her
Bea shared her cigarettes but its the height of bad manners to expect **** in return for SHARING something
and then to bang on about it and get your stupid mates to back you up
lisa WAS bullied

I am afraid your recollection of events seems somewhat clouded. And I stand by my original post. As I said, people are losing their grip on the meaning of the word quite generally.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by BB22
Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by BB22
As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of people have simply started to lose their grip on what the word "bully" actually means. Bea was in the wrong but the idea that Lisa was bullied is utterly preposterous.
why was bea in the wrong?

If you gift someone something of your own free will then I feel it is inappropriate and impolite to openly demand a repayment and to complain when, having put them on the spot, someone says no. If one feels very strongly about it then one might discuss it with the person in private but I think the most appropriate course of action is simply to keep one's own counsel and take the sequence of events into account in one's further dealings with the person.

I think Lisa is vile quite generally but Bea simply behaved inappropriately, in my view.

Quite depends on the circumstances i think. did we see bea giving lisa the tobacco? I mean, lisa MAY have said something like 'Il give you anything if you give me summit to smoke'

In this case, bea was in the right expecting something back.

And in general, it is common courtesy...though people dont ask outright usually.

[BB22]

Originally posted by VickyJ
Originally posted by BB22
Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by BB22
As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of people have simply started to lose their grip on what the word "bully" actually means. Bea was in the wrong but the idea that Lisa was bullied is utterly preposterous.
why was bea in the wrong?

If you gift someone something of your own free will then I feel it is inappropriate and impolite to openly demand a repayment and to complain when, having put them on the spot, someone says no. If one feels very strongly about it then one might discuss it with the person in private but I think the most appropriate course of action is simply to keep one's own counsel and take the sequence of events into account in one's further dealings with the person.

I think Lisa is vile quite generally but Bea simply behaved inappropriately, in my view.

Quite depends on the circumstances i think. did we see bea giving lisa the tobacco? I mean, lisa MAY have said something like 'Il give you anything if you give me summit to smoke'

In this case, bea was in the right expecting something back.

And in general, it is common courtesy...though people dont ask outright usually.

I kind of agree, it is common courtesy to make some return. However, I just don't think it is appropriate to make such a blunt demand. If she had asked me for the bloody frosties I personally would have taken into account her earlier behaviour and given them to her, But if I would prefer to pay her back in some other way, perhaps in kind with tobacco, I would feel it within my rights to say so and I would feel that it was inappropriate of her to keep pressing the issue and definitely inappropriate to make a fuss about it with other people.

[shash]

I could not help laughing at the surrealism of the conversation every time they mentioned Frosties. Now, if only they had been arguing about Coco-Pops :laugh2::hello:

[ange7]

Originally posted by BB22
Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by BB22
As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of people have simply started to lose their grip on what the word "bully" actually means. Bea was in the wrong but the idea that Lisa was bullied is utterly preposterous.
why was bea in the wrong?

If you gift someone something of your own free will then I feel it is inappropriate and impolite to openly demand a repayment and to complain when, having put them on the spot, someone says no. If one feels very strongly about it then one might discuss it with the person in private but I think the most appropriate course of action is simply to keep one's own counsel and take the sequence of events into account in one's further dealings with the person.

I think Lisa is vile quite generally but Bea simply behaved inappropriately, in my view.
yeah agree that it's poor form to expect a fav returned but in the bb house there's an understanding that it can be a house of sharing or a house of people looking out for number one. Lisa likes the "sharing" house when she is receiving but not when she has a chance to give. Bea didn't demand anything...she just said she was surprised that Lisa could be selfish after Bea gave her a whole bunch of tobacco to make her cigs. Anyway I can't see why Bea is wrong here.

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by BB22

I kind of agree, it is common courtesy to make some return. However, I just don't think it is appropriate to make such a blunt demand. If she had asked me for the bloody frosties I personally would have taken into account her earlier behaviour and given them to her, But if I would prefer to pay her back in some other way, perhaps in kind with tobacco, I would feel it within my rights to say so and I would feel that it was inappropriate of her to keep pressing the issue and definitely inappropriate to make a fuss about it with other people.

At the same time though, it is Lisa we are talking about...can you imagine her offering anything back...rather than just expecting to take what she wants? Maybe bea felt a nudge in the right direction was needed...either way she was way too blunt IMO. And if she felt she should be paid back (which is quite right, especially as there is normally not much tobacco in the first place) she should have pulled her aside and said something quietly...instead of infront of people. Though it was lisas reaction that turned it into an issue.

[halfacrown]

Lisa's bawling and screaming at Bea was the real scandal, some people seem to have got so used to it they think it's acceptable and give her a free pass.

The fags are lifeblood to Lisa so Bea did her a big favour but Lisa would never so likewise, she's too ill-mannered.

[Sharmie]

I think Bea likes getting her own way. She did bully Lisa into handing over the cereal. She's just a selfish little madam.
She envied Noirin and I think she was delighted when she got booted out.

She's a real stirrer Bea and I notice she goes to the Marcus and Siavash to back her up.

Marcus wants to get his leg over. God he makes my skin crawl.

Watch Bea's eyes - she is really conniving.:banana:

[BB22]

Maybe it is just my character. If I give someone something, I do not demand a repayment. The most I would do would be to drop in an occasional roundabout hint or reminder. If one demands a repayment, especially after a very short time, it simply pollutes the otherwise moral character of the original action.

Integrity first.

[BB22]

Originally posted by VickyJ
Originally posted by BB22

I kind of agree, it is common courtesy to make some return. However, I just don't think it is appropriate to make such a blunt demand. If she had asked me for the bloody frosties I personally would have taken into account her earlier behaviour and given them to her, But if I would prefer to pay her back in some other way, perhaps in kind with tobacco, I would feel it within my rights to say so and I would feel that it was inappropriate of her to keep pressing the issue and definitely inappropriate to make a fuss about it with other people.

At the same time though, it is Lisa we are talking about...can you imagine her offering anything back...rather than just expecting to take what she wants? Maybe bea felt a nudge in the right direction was needed...either way she was way too blunt IMO. And if she felt she should be paid back (which is quite right, especially as there is normally not much tobacco in the first place) she should have pulled her aside and said something quietly...instead of infront of people. Though it was lisas reaction that turned it into an issue.

I agree entirely with you here. It is just that given my own character, I would be more concerned with my own integrity than with getting the right return, even from Lisa.

[Enid]

Just an excuse for Bea to start a fight and get her bitches involved yet again.

[Chuckyegg]

I dislike Lisa but Frostiegate has put me right off Bea and I ended up actually hoping that she got thrown out last night.

[ANTCOLONY]

Originally posted by Enid
Just an excuse for Bea to start a fight and get her bitches involved yet again.

EXACTLY...
ENID DO YOU HAVE YOUR OWN DOLL OR DID YOU NAME YOURSELF AFTER IT:xyxwave:

[Vicky.]

Originally posted by BB22
Originally posted by VickyJ
Originally posted by BB22

I kind of agree, it is common courtesy to make some return. However, I just don't think it is appropriate to make such a blunt demand. If she had asked me for the bloody frosties I personally would have taken into account her earlier behaviour and given them to her, But if I would prefer to pay her back in some other way, perhaps in kind with tobacco, I would feel it within my rights to say so and I would feel that it was inappropriate of her to keep pressing the issue and definitely inappropriate to make a fuss about it with other people.

At the same time though, it is Lisa we are talking about...can you imagine her offering anything back...rather than just expecting to take what she wants? Maybe bea felt a nudge in the right direction was needed...either way she was way too blunt IMO. And if she felt she should be paid back (which is quite right, especially as there is normally not much tobacco in the first place) she should have pulled her aside and said something quietly...instead of infront of people. Though it was lisas reaction that turned it into an issue.

I agree entirely with you here. It is just that given my own character, I would be more concerned with my own integrity than with getting the right return, even from Lisa.

Yeah...in the BB house though, tiny issues like this seem like a matter of life and death. I can kinda see where bea is coming from. And she didnt exactly say Lisa you must give me cereal because i gave you tobacco.

Depends a lot on the person.

Personally I think i would have just left it, but I have never been in a situation where i have no TV or anything, limited food and tobacco and nothing to do but talk about other people for weeks on end...

[shash]

Originally posted by BB22
Maybe it is just my character. If I give someone something, I do not demand a repayment. The most I would do would be to drop in an occasional roundabout hint or reminder. If one demands a repayment, especially after a very short time, it simply pollutes the otherwise moral character of the original action.

Integrity first.

I totally agree. Maybe sometimes it is natural to feel a bit peeved if the exchange is always one way, but it should not have been raised so bluntly by Bea, and there was no evidence to suggest Lisa was not going to repay Bea in some way. Besides, Bea likes to make out she is the caring, sharing hippy (I cannot buy into this lie of hers) and so should not worry about it. She was just wanting to raise a scene with Lisa, probably to harm her survival chances. Gifts should be freely given, and kindesses repaid, but if they are not freely given then one is right to question the motive in the first place.

I can't believe I am defending Lisa here :shocked::puzzled: but on this occasion she was not in the wrong, although I still did not like the way she went about standing up for herself.

[ange7]

Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Originally posted by Enid
Just an excuse for Bea to start a fight and get her bitches involved yet again.

EXACTLY...
ENID DO YOU HAVE YOUR OWN DOLL OR DID YOU NAME YOURSELF AFTER IT:xyxwave:
lol of all the points people made on this thread you pick this one

[BB22]

Originally posted by shash
Originally posted by BB22
Maybe it is just my character. If I give someone something, I do not demand a repayment. The most I would do would be to drop in an occasional roundabout hint or reminder. If one demands a repayment, especially after a very short time, it simply pollutes the otherwise moral character of the original action.

Integrity first.

I totally agree. Maybe sometimes it is natural to feel a bit peeved if the exchange is always one way, but it should have been raised so bluntly by Bea, and there was no evidence to suggest Lisa was not going to repay Bea in some way. Besides, Bea likes to make out she is the caring, sharing hippy (I cannot buy into this lie of hers) and so should not worry about it. She was just wanting to raise a scene with Lisa, probably to harm her survival chances. Gifts should be freely given, and kindesses repaid, but if they are not freely given then one is right to question the motive in the first place.

I can't believe I am defending Lisa here :shocked::puzzled: but on this occasion she was not in the wrong, although I still did not like the way she went about standing up for herself.

Indeed. And I am entirely in agreement with your last paragraph. It sticks in the throat to defend Lisa but I call it as I see it.

[Savetherainforest]

Lisa said to her in the garden I told you I was going to give you some of my tobacco. Bea made a big deal telling everyone....personally i think she picks on who ever they feel is the one that should go and make them look bad by getting them to argue and she thinks the public will vote them out..she knew lisa was not that iked on the outside when she came in so she thought she was on to a winner picking on her and David...Don't know what happened with the voting last night but Bea, Lisa or Freddie should have gone.

[Enid]

Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Originally posted by Enid
Just an excuse for Bea to start a fight and get her bitches involved yet again.

EXACTLY...
ENID DO YOU HAVE YOUR OWN DOLL OR DID YOU NAME YOURSELF AFTER IT:xyxwave:
Hah, no. That is Enid Coleslaw, character from Ghost World.

[halfacrown]

Originally posted by Sharmie
I think Bea likes getting her own way. She did bully Lisa into handing over the cereal. She's just a selfish little madam.
She envied Noirin and I think she was delighted when she got booted out.

She's a real stirrer Bea and I notice she goes to the Marcus and Siavash to back her up.

Marcus wants to get his leg over. God he makes my skin crawl.

Watch Bea's eyes - she is really conniving.:banana:

They all like their own way and Lisa, Rodrigo and Bea regularly go running off to tell people how dreadful someone else is, at the slightest excuse.

Freddie was attacked by some posters for telling Lisa what he thought of her to her face and in front of everybody.

[ANTCOLONY]

Originally posted by Enid
Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Originally posted by Enid
Just an excuse for Bea to start a fight and get her bitches involved yet again.

EXACTLY...
ENID DO YOU HAVE YOUR OWN DOLL OR DID YOU NAME YOURSELF AFTER IT:xyxwave:
Hah, no. That is Enid Coleslaw, character from Ghost World.

AHHHHHH....:eureka:

[BB22]

Originally posted by VickyJ
Originally posted by BB22
Originally posted by VickyJ
Originally posted by BB22

I kind of agree, it is common courtesy to make some return. However, I just don't think it is appropriate to make such a blunt demand. If she had asked me for the bloody frosties I personally would have taken into account her earlier behaviour and given them to her, But if I would prefer to pay her back in some other way, perhaps in kind with tobacco, I would feel it within my rights to say so and I would feel that it was inappropriate of her to keep pressing the issue and definitely inappropriate to make a fuss about it with other people.

At the same time though, it is Lisa we are talking about...can you imagine her offering anything back...rather than just expecting to take what she wants? Maybe bea felt a nudge in the right direction was needed...either way she was way too blunt IMO. And if she felt she should be paid back (which is quite right, especially as there is normally not much tobacco in the first place) she should have pulled her aside and said something quietly...instead of infront of people. Though it was lisas reaction that turned it into an issue.

I agree entirely with you here. It is just that given my own character, I would be more concerned with my own integrity than with getting the right return, even from Lisa.

Yeah...in the BB house though, tiny issues like this seem like a matter of life and death. I can kinda see where bea is coming from. And she didnt exactly say Lisa you must give me cereal because i gave you tobacco.

Depends a lot on the person.

I pretty much agree on these points. Strange confined environments such as the Big Brother House can certainly affect how people understand and react to situations.

[shash]

Originally posted by BB22
Originally posted by shash
Originally posted by BB22
Maybe it is just my character. If I give someone something, I do not demand a repayment. The most I would do would be to drop in an occasional roundabout hint or reminder. If one demands a repayment, especially after a very short time, it simply pollutes the otherwise moral character of the original action.

Integrity first.

I totally agree. Maybe sometimes it is natural to feel a bit peeved if the exchange is always one way, but it should have been raised so bluntly by Bea, and there was no evidence to suggest Lisa was not going to repay Bea in some way. Besides, Bea likes to make out she is the caring, sharing hippy (I cannot buy into this lie of hers) and so should not worry about it. She was just wanting to raise a scene with Lisa, probably to harm her survival chances. Gifts should be freely given, and kindesses repaid, but if they are not freely given then one is right to question the motive in the first place.

I can't believe I am defending Lisa here :shocked::puzzled: but on this occasion she was not in the wrong, although I still did not like the way she went about standing up for herself.

Indeed. And I am entirely in agreement with your last paragraph. It sticks in the throat to defend Lisa but I call it as I see it.

LOL, yes :thumbs:


and oops for the typo I made which I just spotted :blush2:
I did of course mean to say:

"Maybe sometimes it is natural to feel a bit peeved if the exchange is always one way, but it should not have been raised so bluntly by Bea"

[BB22]

Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by BB22
Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by BB22
As I pointed out in another thread, a lot of people have simply started to lose their grip on what the word "bully" actually means. Bea was in the wrong but the idea that Lisa was bullied is utterly preposterous.
why was bea in the wrong?

If you gift someone something of your own free will then I feel it is inappropriate and impolite to openly demand a repayment and to complain when, having put them on the spot, someone says no. If one feels very strongly about it then one might discuss it with the person in private but I think the most appropriate course of action is simply to keep one's own counsel and take the sequence of events into account in one's further dealings with the person.

I think Lisa is vile quite generally but Bea simply behaved inappropriately, in my view.
yeah agree that it's poor form to expect a fav returned but in the bb house there's an understanding that it can be a house of sharing or a house of people looking out for number one. Lisa likes the "sharing" house when she is receiving but not when she has a chance to give. Bea didn't demand anything...she just said she was surprised that Lisa could be selfish after Bea gave her a whole bunch of tobacco to make her cigs. Anyway I can't see why Bea is wrong here.

I am not sure I particularly disagree with any of your factual statements here. But they do not change my moral understanding of the situation. Lisa's behaviour is kind of irrelevant, as far as I am concerned.

[Libra]

I do not think that if you have done someone a big favour...and let's be honest, in that house, sorting Lisa out with tobacco when she had none is a huge favour, it is unreasonable to ask a favour in return.

Lisa has not done anyone a single favour in that house, and yet she often expects favours.

For example, one time she agreed to go without luxury food as she couldn't do without cigarettes. Then, once she had the fags she bullied everyone into giving her the food anyway.

The last time she was out of fags, Karly came to her rescue, which was maybe fair as she and Karly were mates, whereas Bea and Lisa have never got on well.

Bea asked Lisa for a swap, honestly, I don't see a problem with that. She did not say Lisa - I gave you fags yesterday so give me those Frosties.

Lisa said no, she didn't say "Sorry Bea, but just about the only cereal I like is Frosties, so I can't swap".

Instead she sneered and said "Huh, no thankyou darling".

I think that that was a poor response and am not surprised that Bea was a bit narked.

However, as I said earlier, I think Bea's response was wrong. Instead of moaning to the others she should have just bided her time until Lisa was on the scrounge again and then said: No, I'm not sorting you out again because of what happened last time, you'll have to go without fags.

In that situation Lisa would not have had a leg to stand on.

As usual, it's not as simple as one person was right and the other one was wrong.

It would have been very out of character for Lisa to share, but it wouldn't have hurt her to do so, and her attitude was poor - as usual.

It was not a problem that Bea asked, but having been refused, she shouldn't have reacted the way that she did. She over-reacted, as usual.

To put the blame entirely on one person or the other just shows a bias.

[BB22]

Originally posted by LibraTo put the blame entirely on one person or the other just shows a bias.

Putting aside everything else you have written, as I am quite prepared to accept your right to disagree, I would take issue with this last line. I think it is factually incorrect and also kind of does a disservice to some excellent discussions in this very thread. I think the people discussing this issue have done it in a thoughtful way.

[Libra]

Originally posted by BB22
Originally posted by LibraTo put the blame entirely on one person or the other just shows a bias.

Putting aside everything else you have written, as I am quite prepared to accept your right to disagree, I would take issue with this last line. I think it is factually incorrect and also kind of does a disservice to some excellent discussions in this very thread. I think the people discussing this issue have done it in a thoughtful way.

It's not factually incorrect, it's just an opinion, as are most things written on internet forums. Perhaps I should have added "in my opinion?"

What is a fact though, is that very very rarely is one person to blame in an argument.

To come down on one side or the other depends upon which person you favour.

There have been some good points made on this thread.

In my post I did not come down on one side or the other, I pointed out where there was fault on both sides, to demonstrate that it is hard to say for certain that one person or the other was entirely to blame.

I also accept your right to disagree, and it's still just my opinion.

[Barbie]

Lisa was quite blunt about it and didnt even consider it, even after she had some of Bea's cigarettes

But Lisa agreed to give Bea some of her Cigarettes and Bea made the issue bigger than it was

So for me both done wrong but nothing major

[moimay]

I thought I heard Bea, when apologising to Lisa, acknowledge that Lisa had borrowed cigarettes from her and Lisa had promised to give her some of hers in return when she had fresh supplies.

How does this relate to Bea's feelings of shock when Lisa didn't want to swop breakfast cereal with her ?

I am not a smoker but lending someone something they need to feed their addiction doesn't make them obliged to relinquish whatever you've got if they want it.

It struck me that Bea was either suffering from a false sense of entitlement or trying to emotionally blackmail Lisa - perish the thought

[shash]

Originally posted by moimay
I thought I heard Bea, when apologising to Lisa, acknowledge that Lisa had borrowed cigarettes from her and Lisa had promised to give her some of hers in return when she had fresh supplies.

How does this relate to Bea's feelings of shock when Lisa didn't want to swop breakfast cereal with her ?

I am not a smoker but lending someone something they need to feed their addiction doesn't make them obliged to relinquish whatever you've got if they want it.

It struck me that Bea was either suffering from a false sense of entitlement or trying to emotionally blackmail Lisa - perish the thought

I think any smoker would have shared tobacco with Lisa in that situation. Bea would have risen to new levels of cruelty if she had smoked on and watched Lisa suffer.

I agree with you.

[Libra]

Originally posted by shash
Originally posted by moimay
I thought I heard Bea, when apologising to Lisa, acknowledge that Lisa had borrowed cigarettes from her and Lisa had promised to give her some of hers in return when she had fresh supplies.

How does this relate to Bea's feelings of shock when Lisa didn't want to swop breakfast cereal with her ?

I am not a smoker but lending someone something they need to feed their addiction doesn't make them obliged to relinquish whatever you've got if they want it.

It struck me that Bea was either suffering from a false sense of entitlement or trying to emotionally blackmail Lisa - perish the thought

I think any smoker would have shared tobacco with Lisa in that situation. Bea would have risen to new levels of cruelty if she had smoked on and watched Lisa suffer.

I agree with you.


Maybe the real question to ask is: If it had been the other way round, Lisa had fags whilst Bea had none, would Lisa have shared?

[BB22]

Originally posted by Libra
Originally posted by BB22
Originally posted by LibraTo put the blame entirely on one person or the other just shows a bias.

Putting aside everything else you have written, as I am quite prepared to accept your right to disagree, I would take issue with this last line. I think it is factually incorrect and also kind of does a disservice to some excellent discussions in this very thread. I think the people discussing this issue have done it in a thoughtful way.

It's not factually incorrect, it's just an opinion, as are most things written on internet forums. Perhaps I should have added "in my opinion?"

What is a fact though, is that very very rarely is one person to blame in an argument.

To come down on one side or the other depends upon which person you favour.

There have been some good points made on this thread.

In my post I did not come down on one side or the other, I pointed out where there was fault on both sides, to demonstrate that it is hard to say for certain that one person or the other was entirely to blame.

I also accept your right to disagree, and it's still just my opinion.

Absolutely it is an opinion, I do not dispute that. But opinions are beliefs and conceptually beliefs aim at truth. It is quite possible for something to be an opinion and be factually incorrect. Opinions are not excused from evaluation in terms of truth and falsity. There is no contradiction there at all, so your first point is not well formed.

Your second point is absolutely right. Rarely is one person to blame in an argument. But of course it is possible.

When you say "To come down on one side or the other depends upon which person you favour": well yes in a way. Obviously to come down on one side implies that you favour them in some specific circumstance, the point at issue. But it does not mean that who you favour determines which side you come down on, which is a quite different thing and is what you would need to sustain your idea about "bias". So for instance, quite generally I despise Lisa and dislike Bea rather less but in this case I believe Bea was in the wrong and have more sympathy for Lisa. I am not sure where the "bias" is supposed to be operating in such a situation. In fact, I would say quite generally that the word "bias" is vastly overused in debates. I try never to use it, myself.

When you say "In my post I did not come down on one side or the other, I pointed out where there was fault on both sides", I am not particularly in disagreement with you. Nor was I from your original post. But of course it does not preclude a determination of of where the weight of responsibility lies. :spin2:

I know I am being irritatingly exact and pedantic about terminology and small aspects of the debate. Years in academic philosophy has that effect on one's brain. :whistle:

[BB22]

Originally posted by Libra
Originally posted by shash
Originally posted by moimay
I thought I heard Bea, when apologising to Lisa, acknowledge that Lisa had borrowed cigarettes from her and Lisa had promised to give her some of hers in return when she had fresh supplies.

How does this relate to Bea's feelings of shock when Lisa didn't want to swop breakfast cereal with her ?

I am not a smoker but lending someone something they need to feed their addiction doesn't make them obliged to relinquish whatever you've got if they want it.

It struck me that Bea was either suffering from a false sense of entitlement or trying to emotionally blackmail Lisa - perish the thought

I think any smoker would have shared tobacco with Lisa in that situation. Bea would have risen to new levels of cruelty if she had smoked on and watched Lisa suffer.

I agree with you.


Maybe the real question to ask is: If it had been the other way round, Lisa had fags whilst Bea had none, would Lisa have shared?

Very unlikely, I would say.

[brian3]

Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Bea was wrong
Lisa got bullied into handing over her frosties
Glad hira left
she was just in there for the money
:elephant:

They are all just in there for the money. That is the way it has always been

[amy-jayne]

Bea over-reacted a bit, shes a bitch.
Everyone really should get over their lisa hate

[ANTCOLONY]

Originally posted by brian3
Originally posted by ANTCOLONY
Bea was wrong
Lisa got bullied into handing over her frosties
Glad hira left
she was just in there for the money
:elephant:

They are all just in there for the money. That is the way it has always been

some more than others
whats dogface in there for? to regale the house with her personality, wit and charm
or increase the asking price for her t*t pics
get her out

[Insane_Spirit]

Originally posted by SocietyIsRuined
They weren't even proper Frosties(tm) they were the cheap Tesco rip off. Not worth having at all. :tongue:

:flower: Totally agree! :thumbs:

I'd rather have a little of the good stuff than a whole lot os the nasty! :bigsmile:

[Esqualita]

To be quite frank. Both are as bad as each other. Both need to go.

[Marc]

Lisa was right, I completely sided with Lisa

[Sabrewulf238]

The whole thing was pointless, I don't think anyone was in the right or the wrong, it was just a big fuss over something really silly. :bored:

[whosaid]

i actually prefer crunchy nut cornflakes why wernt they there lol:laugh:
i prefer bea to lisa but do feel bea made a big thing about it but lisa is not known for sharing she did watch the show before she went in

[Marc]

Originally posted by Sabrewulf238
The whole thing was pointless, I don't think anyone was in the right or the wrong, it was just a big fuss over something really silly. :bored:

Definately.. so silly!

[MR.K!]

the title of this thread made me PMSL

[jtalh2003]

I dont like lisa BUT
this is like you lending £10 to a mate and him saying he will pay you back the £10 in a few days then you demanding something else to
bea was well in the wrong with that considering she knew she would be getting the baccy back of lisa

[Braden]

i loved it when davina was making fun of lisa saying " but i love forstie..." on BBBM

[ange7]

Originally posted by jtalh2003
I dont like lisa BUT
this is like you lending £10 to a mate and him saying he will pay you back the £10 in a few days then you demanding something else to
bea was well in the wrong with that considering she knew she would be getting the baccy back of lisa
Bea didn't demand it. Where'd you get that from. Her point was how selfish Lisa could be even after she gave her all that tobacco for cigs.
Lisa said no,no,no and finally yes thinking it was about the frosties. Nah it was about what a selfish bitch Lisa was "BUT I LOVE FROSTIES!!"