Jan Moir Article

[Crimson Dynamo]

having actually read it..

Is this just another example of internet based liberal hysteria?

[NettoSuperstar!]

No its another example of the Daily "hate" Mail hysteria...Charlie Brooker sums it up best

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/16/stephen-gately-jan-moir

[arista]

Yes she needs to
say Sorry
as he died of Natural reasons.

It will not Kill her.

[arista]

having actually read it..

Is this just another example of internet based liberal hysteria?


She made a big error on how he died
thats why they are going for her.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Does anyone think that the events leading up to his death were at best sordid?

[Scarlett.]

Does anyone think that the events leading up to his death were at best sordid?
VERY sordid...

First he laid down
Then he closed his eyes
Then his heart stopped

Jan Moir should be fired for making up such **** and passing it off as fact

[Crimson Dynamo]

VERY sordid...

First he laid down
Then he closed his eyes
Then his heart stopped

Jan Moir should be fired for making up such **** and passing it off as fact


Are you saying that he did not take drugs and have a 3 way with a random Bulgarian chap even though he was married and took legal vows to the contrary?

did I miss something here?

[NettoSuperstar!]

Are you saying that he did not take drugs and have a 3 way with a random Bulgarian chap even though he was married and took legal vows to the contrary?

did I miss something here?

Yeh you did, you missed the overwhelming evidence that he didnt do that

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeh you did, you missed the overwhelming evidence that he didnt do that

http://www.sofiaecho.com/2009/10/16/800699_bulgarian-who-found-stephen-gatelys-body-to-attend-funeral


I love the last line. sounds like a nice guy.

[NettoSuperstar!]

...and that proves what?

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news/2009/10/16/invitation-for-party-friend-115875-21751006/

The man who found Stephen's body says he has been invited to the funeral.

Bulgarian-born Georgi Dochev, 25, said he had not yet decided whether to make the trip from Majorca to Ireland.

He admitted the death had left him petrified of dying and scared to sleep. Jobless Georgi, speaking from his flat near Palma, said: "Stephen's family invited me to the funeral. I don't know why. Maybe they want to meet me.


"I still haven't decided. I'm talking to my partner about it."

Georgi was partying with Stephen and husband Andy Cowles, 32, in Palma last Friday and went back to the pair's flat with them early on Saturday. He said Andy went to bed and he slept in the spare room upstairs leaving Stephen in his pyjamas on the sofa.

But when he went downstairs at around 1.45pm that afternoon Stephen was dead.

The ex-waiter added: "We were just partying that night but I can't really tell you why I went back to their house. I don't think this is a normal story."

Georgi said he had been looking after Andy, who will fly back to Dublin today with Stephen's body. He added: "I've been speaking to him several times a day by phone."



Millionaire pop star befriends jobless Bulgarian and invites him back to his flat for cheese and wine?

[NettoSuperstar!]

Oh right it must have been some sordid gay sex then, thats what they do isnt it?

[Scarlett.]

Are you saying that he did not take drugs and have a 3 way with a random Bulgarian chap even though he was married and took legal vows to the contrary?

did I miss something here?
Yes, you missed the part where you wasnt there

How can you know what happened in the hours before his death?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh right it must have been some sordid gay sex then, thats what they do isnt it?

As opposed to what?


Scrabble and some after eight mints:conf:

What seems to cause the concern is the fact that the poor chap concerned (Gateley) was "married". What was a unemployed Bulgarian, who had a partener already, doing there? Lets face it everyone was pissed and on dope so one does not have to be a brain surgeon to perhaps suggest that something very un-married was afoot.

[Scarlett.]

As opposed to what?


Scrabble and some after eight mints:conf:

What seems to cause the concern is the fact that the poor chap concerned (Gateley) was "married". What was a unemployed Bulgarian, who had a partener already, doing there? Lets face it everyone was pissed and on dope so one does not have to be a brain surgeon to perhaps suggest that something very un-married was afoot.
Strange how there was no drugs mentioned in the port mortem report isnt it?
and had you thought maybe they just stayed up and talked?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Strange how there was no drugs mentioned in the port mortem report isnt it?
and had you thought maybe they just stayed up and talked?

I am guessing that you don't work in the legal profession?

[arista]

His Heart
was not Strong Enough.
He would be Alive today if he had a Good Doctor.

The worst thing is the way Louie Walsh
can not handle death of a mate.


Life Goes On.

As does X factor.

[Scarlett.]

I am guessing that you don't work in the legal profession?
I'm guessing you dont either, I'm also guessing you dont work as a forensic scientist, or dont work as a doctor either

[Iceman]

Im guessing LetaherTrumpet needs some Grammar classes, No Drugs involved as per the post mortem. Jan Moir Article was wrong, needs to say sorry.

[arista]

Im guessing LetaherTrumpet needs some Grammar classes, No Drugs involved as per the post mortem. Jan Moir Article was wrong, needs to say sorry.


Yes Ice
Bang On Right.

[Stu]

Those who are using the death of an innocent man to further there own agendas on drugs and/or homosexuality should be ashamed of themselves.

The MEDICAL reports by the medical PROFESSIONALS are out. He died of natural causes. Case closed. Take your hate ball and go home.

I am guessing that you don't work in the legal profession?
I am guessing you dont dabble from time to time in sane rationality?

Get your feet wet, kid. It's a fantastic world.

[Shaun]

Just read it - pretty offensive.

[Stu]

To be honest the article was too stupid to be considered offensive. People always miss the point with these things.

''Was it offensive?''
''Should Jan be entitled to her views?''
''Was it offensive?''

Shhhhh, quiet people. Your missing the entire point. She is an idiot. End of story. The article does not deserve the debate it's spawning.

For instance, she says something against what she calls the 'myth' of safe civil unions. Right. Right. Because straight sex marriages always turn out peachy. Thats why divorce is non existent and the police never get domestic abuse calls.

Right? Right?

Once again, Jan Moir - idiot. What I hate most about her is she is a closet homophobe. Like the ''new and improved'' BNP she is clearly a bigot and a homophobe but denies it in today's public. But we all know it. She knows it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So no theories as to what the unemployed Bulgarian was doing there?

I dont think anyone is suggesting that he died other than of untimely natural causes but i am not hearing much about what a "married" couple were doing with the otherwise attached Bulgarian?

as I said before I dont think he went their for a chat about the x- factor. The Moir article does make a valid point about just how steady are these civil partnerships because men are men. A man and a woman compliment each other sexually, a man and man do not and do not lend themselves to monogamy

[NettoSuperstar!]

So no theories as to what the unemployed Bulgarian was doing there?

I dont think anyone is suggesting that he died other than of untimely natural causes but i am not hearing much about what a "married" couple were doing with the otherwise attached Bulgarian?

as I said before I dont think he went their for a chat about the x- factor. The Moir article does make a valid point about just how steady are these civil partnerships because men are men. A man and a woman compliment each other sexually, a man and man do not and do not lend themselves to monogamy

We dont know why he was there, gay couples can have friends back just like straight couples...straight couples can have threesomes too and so on...the Moir arcticle was implying that he died in suspicious circumstances and not natural causes because of his gay lifestyle...I dont see how homosexual couples dont lend themselves to monogamy and dont compliment each other sexually? Could you expand on that? They hadnt taken drugs either...you think that would be kept secret? Yes cos they never let on if drugs have been involved? eh?

[Crimson Dynamo]

We dont know why he was there, gay couples can have friends back just like straight couples...straight couples can have threesomes too and so on...the Moir arcticle was implying that he died in suspicious circumstances and not natural causes because of his gay lifestyle...I dont see how homosexual couples dont lend themselves to monogamy and dont compliment each other sexually? Could you expand on that? They hadnt taken drugs either...you think that would be kept secret? Yes cos they never let on if drugs have been involved? eh?

Why do you think that chap was there, taking aside your pro-homosexual bias?

men are men, they have a whole different genetic and sexual make-up to women. men do not need romance etc to get sexually aroused, they can turn on in an instant. men and women's sexuality compliment each other men and men do not.

95 % of the population are not gay and there is a very good reason for that.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Why do you think that chap was there, taking aside your pro-homosexual bias?

men are men, they have a whole different genetic and sexual make-up to women. men do not need romance etc to get sexually aroused, they can turn on in an instant. men and women's sexuality compliment each other men and men do not.

95 % of the population are not gay and there is a very good reason for that.

I dont know why he was there but there was no evidence of drug taking or anything suspicious surrounding Stephens death which is what Jan Moir was implying and she was implying it because he was gay. His sexuality has nothing to do with how he died so the rest I couldnt give a ****

[Nurse57]

"men do not need romance etc to get sexually aroused" I think you will find women don't either. What does it matter if gately had a 3'some and a smoke? Are you saying he got so stoned he passed out and got bummed to death? Married straight couples do the same thing so they are just as "sordid" Not that I think having a 3'some is sordid. Going behind your partners back is.

Anyway, Jan Moir is most likely a child molester. I have absoloutly no proof to back this claim up, but it is my opinion. I shall see if i can get that in the Mail.

[Stu]

So whats the official TIBB verdict here, did God, knowing full well what would happen, sprinkle the spliff with a hyperactive, fast acting and devastating immunity system destroying virus undetectable to medical professions?

And then did this spliff somehow end up, ash side up, logged up his ass?

Just wondering. Curiosity is a curious beast.

95 % of the population are not gay and there is a very good reason for that.
Enlighten us. I could do with a healthy laugh before I go off to shag a man and smoke pot.

[Iceman]

This guy (Leathertrumpet) sees the world through rose coloured glasses.... 95% what are you on about dude? If your gonna talk crap at least try and get a near enough statistic...

[Crimson Dynamo]

This guy (Leathertrumpet) sees the world through rose coloured glasses.... 95% what are you on about dude? If your gonna talk crap at least try and get a near enough statistic...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/dec/11/gayrights.immigrationpolicy

[Iceman]

yeah thats about 4 years out of date.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So whats the official TIBB verdict here, did God, knowing full well what would happen, sprinkle the spliff with a hyperactive, fast acting and devastating immunity system destroying virus undetectable to medical professions?

And then did this spliff somehow end up, ash side up, logged up his ass?

Just wondering. Curiosity is a curious beast.


Enlighten us. I could do with a healthy laugh before I go off to shag a man and smoke pot.

lets just say that there is a big neon sign in ones anus saying "one way traffic only"

dont blame me, blame Darwin.


Personally I think homosexuality is a lot to do with nurture than nature.

[Crimson Dynamo]

yeah thats about 4 years out of date.

yes, a lot could have happened statistically in 4 years

:whistle:

[Iceman]

yes, a lot could have happened statistically in 4 years

:whistle:

Well what you are trying to use as a statistic is 4 years out of date therfore doesnt apply for now 2009 not 2005.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well what you are trying to use as a statistic is 4 years out of date therfore doesnt apply for now 2009 not 2005.

You can appreciate that this is not a yearly collated statistic. 4 years ago is a very good source for data of this nature.

[Iceman]

You can appreciate that this is not a yearly collated statistic. 4 years ago is a very good source for data of this nature.

For your slating of someone who died of natural causes just because he was Gay? yeah I appreciate that.

[Tom4784]

Okay my thoughts on this thread.

1. Jan Moir's an idiot but I do hope the article hurts the Daily Mail badly I hate that newspaper.

2. LeatherTrumpet must be a medical and forensic genius as well as psychic and having the ability to turn invisible and to teleport in order to draw his conclusions. With powers like that you should be stopping bank robberies and saving the poor dear Trumpet not bashing a dead man's reputation.

In conclusion Mr Trumpet, there's STACKS of evidence against your argument you might as well just say that you hate homosexuality as it's fairly abvious, like Ms Moir that you are a raging homophobe.

[Stu]

lets just say that there is a big neon sign in ones anus saying "one way traffic only"

dont blame me, blame Darwin.


Personally I think homosexuality is a lot to do with nurture than nature.
What a ridiculous argument, evident by the fact that it's a hole, really, and that's about it. Waste comes out of it, but some men enjoy sticking there parts up it for pleasure. It gives them pleasure. They are happy. I am happy. What do I care.

I suppose your against fellatio, too then? And pretty much everything else sex related that has no direct involvement with creating a child?

Or are certain acts [that you enjoy] allowed in that whacky world of yours?

If God prevented Homosexuality from ever existing, which he easily could, after all, he is as I am told 'da man' then he would not have to go to the trouble of killing them off in flats in Spain.

[Iceman]

Okay my thoughts on this thread.

1. Jan Moir's an idiot but I do hope the article hurts the Daily Mail badly I hate that newspaper.

2. LeatherTrumpet must be a medical and forensic genius as well as psychic and having the ability to turn invisible and to teleport in order to draw his conclusions. With powers like that you should be stopping bank robberies and saving the poor dear Trumpet not bashing a dead man's reputation.

In conclusion Mr Trumpet, there's STACKS of evidence against your argument you might as well just say that you hate homosexuality as it's fairly abvious, like Ms Moir that you are a raging homophobe.

Well said.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What a ridiculous argument, evident by the fact that it's a hole, really, and that's about it. Waste comes out of it, but some men enjoy sticking there parts up it for pleasure. It gives them pleasure. They are happy. I am happy. What do I care.

I suppose your against fellatio, too then? And pretty much everything else sex related that has no direct involvement with creating a child?

Or are certain acts [that you enjoy] allowed in that whacky world of yours?

If God prevented Homosexuality from ever existing, which he easily could, after all, he is as I am told 'da man' then he would not have to go to the trouble of killing them off in flats in Spain.

You are arguing against a point that you think I made rather than the one made, probably because you are very defensive. No one denies that what you say occurs but that practice is dangerous and causes many diseases as the body is not designed for that. That is a reality.

Go to any doctor and say that you would like to engage in anal sex with your girlfriend, can the doc explain what risks are involved. I dont think many would like the answer.

The God example is the same futile "why does God allow pain and suffering" argument that was put to bed philosophically in the 1980s

[Crimson Dynamo]

Okay my thoughts on this thread.

1. Jan Moir's an idiot but I do hope the article hurts the Daily Mail badly I hate that newspaper.

2. LeatherTrumpet must be a medical and forensic genius as well as psychic and having the ability to turn invisible and to teleport in order to draw his conclusions. With powers like that you should be stopping bank robberies and saving the poor dear Trumpet not bashing a dead man's reputation.

In conclusion Mr Trumpet, there's STACKS of evidence against your argument you might as well just say that you hate homosexuality as it's fairly abvious, like Ms Moir that you are a raging homophobe.

aha

the homophobe accusation. I wondered when that would rear its ugly 2009 head. I guess now it would seem.

:nono:

[Iceman]

Leathertrumpet, if you think you are right then why has nobody agreed with you?

[Tom4784]

aha

the homophobe accusation. I wondered when that would rear its ugly 2009 head. I guess now it would seem.

:nono:

You are let's face it. You've stood against Logic, fact and reason with your fingers in your ears going 'LALALALA!!'. You haven't provided any relevant facts or figures (and no, information that was relevent 4 years ago is not relevant today). You're argument is basically that he was a promiscous gay man because a friend slept over and that his homosexuality is the reason he's dead. Although both points have been disproved.

He died of an undiagnosed heart condition, not of STD's or aids or drug overdoses bought on by a masochistic homosexual lifestyle or any other crap you have to spout.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Leathertrumpet, if you think you are right then why has nobody agreed with you?

Right about what?

[Iceman]

Right about what?

The whole argument you are trying (I say trying because you are failing miserably, using staistics that are dated) put across. All of your points have been disproven, I think you should just accept the fact that the man died of natural causes.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You are let's face it. You've stood against Logic, fact and reason with your fingers in your ears going 'LALALALA!!'. You haven't provided any relevant facts or figures (and no, information that was relevent 4 years ago is not relevant today). You're argument is basically that he was a promiscous gay man because a friend slept over and that his homosexuality is the reason he's dead. Although both points have been disproved.

He died of an undiagnosed heart condition, not of STD's or aids or drug overdoses bought on by a masochistic homosexual lifestyle or any other crap you have to spout.


I have never argued (check thread) that anything killed him. The stats I gave you are the best available and since everyone else on this thread would have made up a much higher figure then they are key to the thread and to the debunking that the figure is 20 % etc..

All I asked was what was the chap doing there and if he was there for the blindingly obvious reason, that is not very "married" in my eyes.

Dont let you emotions or the fact that you think you have the moral high ground cloud your posts.

[Iceman]

Dont let you emotions or the fact that you think you have the moral high ground cloud your posts.

If anyone thinks they have the higher Moral ground it's you and thats pretty clear for anyone to see when they look back in this thread.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If anyone thinks they have the higher Moral ground it's you and thats pretty clear for anyone to see when they look back in this thread.

effectively you have just posted

"no, YOU smell"

nice:hugesmile:

[Tom4784]

All I asked was what was the chap doing there and if he was there for the blindingly obvious reason, that is not very "married" in my eyes.

Dont let you emotions or the fact that you think you have the moral high ground cloud your posts.

But it's already been said that they were friends and he stayed the night in the spare bedroom. This has been said but you're the one insisting that they were upto no good on the grounds that they're gay. IF something was going on it would have come out by now the media are like vultures they would have reported on it if something happened.

[Crimson Dynamo]

But it's already been said that they were friends and he stayed the night in the spare bedroom. This has been said but you're the one insisting that they were upto no good on the grounds that they're gay. IF something was going on it would have come out by now the media are like vultures they would have reported on it if something happened.

How would they have found out. Why would a friend be selling his story about it for 70,000 euros?

[Iceman]

effectively you have just posted

"no, YOU smell"

nice:hugesmile:

effectively looking back at your posts you come across as a homophobic snob.
Your claims(or not claims seeing as how your back tracking) are all dumbfounded, basically everythign you said has a perfectly normal answer for but you just wont let it be.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Thank ****...I need a rest:spin:

[Crimson Dynamo]

effectively looking back at your posts you come across as a homophobic snob.
Your claims(or not claims seeing as how your back tracking) are all dumbfounded, basically everythign you said has a perfectly normal answer for but you just wont let it be.

I think you are confusing the article with me. I am not Jan Moir. Your constant abuse however gives away your shaky footing in the debate.

An alternative view to the one you hold is not an abomination.

[Iceman]

I think you are confusing the article with me. I am not Jan Moir. Your constant abuse however gives away your shaky footing in the debate.

An alternative view to the one you hold is not an abomination.

And what view would that be? Humour me and tell me what view I hold.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And what view would that be? Humour me and tell me what view I hold.

I think, you have rather missed the point:spin:

[Scarlett.]

I think, you have rather missed the point:spin:
I think you missed your calling as a Daily Mail **** stirrer :blush:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think you missed your calling as a Daily Mail **** stirrer :blush:

Is that a job?

if it is then I would imagine that folks on DS have that sewn up.

[Scarlett.]

Is that a job?

if it is then I would imagine that folks on DS have that sewn up.
Lol I wouldnt be suprised if that was the job title for that newspaper :joker:

[Stu]

You are arguing against a point that you think I made rather than the one made, probably because you are very defensive. No one denies that what you say occurs but that practice is dangerous and causes many diseases as the body is not designed for that. That is a reality.

Go to any doctor and say that you would like to engage in anal sex with your girlfriend, can the doc explain what risks are involved. I dont think many would like the answer.

The God example is the same futile "why does God allow pain and suffering" argument that was put to bed philosophically in the 1980s
Most ordinary people in the world use condoms now kid. I know your religion advises against contraception, but thats YOUR stone age problem, not mine.

[Tom4784]

How would they have found out. Why would a friend be selling his story about it for 70,000 euros?

A thing called investigative reporting? Plus money makes tongues very loose. If there was anything untoward going on we'd know about it. It's very hard to hide things from the press for long, plus the press would love a sleazy tale of drugs, sex and death over a natural death since there's a lot more they could write about it, they could create a narrative out of it that could last weeks.

I know how papers, especially tabloids work. If they or the autopsy didn't reveal drug or sexual health problems then they probably don't exist. At the end of the day Stephen Gately went out with a friend and the friend stayed over, possibly bue to the fact it was a good night and he wasn't in a position to drive (this is speculation but just because they are gay doesn't mean they were involved) When a friend stops round your house does everyone accuse you of anything? I'm guessing no so why should it be different for gay people?

[Nurse57]

"but that practice is dangerous and causes many diseases as the body is not designed for that. That is a reality."

And no disease has ever ben spread through some willy fanny action? I take it you would never give or receive oral sex?

[Crimson Dynamo]

"but that practice is dangerous and causes many diseases as the body is not designed for that. That is a reality."

And no disease has ever ben spread through some willy fanny action? I take it you would never give or receive oral sex?

That is the equivalent of defending rape because other people have consensual sex and sometimes fall off the bed and hurt themselves

[Nurse57]

???

[Nurse57]

Sorry, but no matter how many times I read that, it is still the most retarded post in the history of the interweb.

Well done. Have a sweety.

[Stu]

That is the equivalent of defending rape because other people have consensual sex and sometimes fall off the bed and hurt themselves
That might just be the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read. And I have been using the internet for 12 years.

Absolutely mind boggling. I am going to print that out, put it on my wall, and read it every morning to remind myself of what I might have to face out there.

[Crimson Dynamo]

my pleasure

[BB_Eye]

That is the equivalent of defending rape because other people have consensual sex and sometimes fall off the bed and hurt themselves

Jesus Christ... did I just read that? :conf:

[setanta]

That might just be the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read. And I have been using the internet for 12 years.

Absolutely mind boggling. I am going to print that out, put it on my wall, and read it every morning to remind myself of what I might have to face out there.

Yep, it was an absolute doozie.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222956/My-night-Stephen-Gately-grieving-partner.html