View Full Version : Do you see illegal music downloads as theft?
Smithy
20-03-2010, 01:27 PM
I was reading the paper earlier and saw an article which said something like 60% of people who illegally download music didnt see it as theft.
So just wondering if you do, and if not, why not?
Twilight
20-03-2010, 01:29 PM
Yes i do,but i still do it:P
bananarama
20-03-2010, 01:32 PM
Suppose so. But theft is also when music companies charge too much for a load of crap that makes crappy performers filthy rich.......Their theft of course is strictly legal.........
Captain.Remy
20-03-2010, 01:33 PM
No. Just making humongous savings. I only buy CDs from one band: Daft Punk because they're worth buying and they're my idols. Artists (when they're worth buying which is very rare nowadays) can live with illegal downloading. They earn enough money for themselves. I'm not going to cry on their shoulder, there are worst things out there.
setanta
20-03-2010, 01:34 PM
I'm not getting involved in this one. Stu, stay out of it too: I want to watch the rugby today hee hee.
Well it is theft. No room for debate on that. But there are countless upsides to it.
It's like smoking pot. It's not always bad just because it's illegal and you can't define it just by that invisible moral barrier.. You need to bring some common sense into it too. If I download an album that's already sold ten million copies, who gives a ****.
Smithy
20-03-2010, 01:37 PM
No. Just making humongous savings. I only buy CDs from one band: Daft Punk because they're worth buying and they're my idols. Artists (when they're worth buying which is very rare nowadays) can live with illegal downloading. They earn enough money for themselves. I'm not going to cry on their shoulder, there are worst things out there.
But thats the thing :
It is reckoned that every year 7.3million computer users download tracks illegally, costing the industry £200million.
But many people think it is harmless because rich pop stars won't notice an effect on their bank balances.
Lily Allen disagrees. Here she explains why.
BRITISH music is the best in the world, no contest.
We're proud of it and we're famous for it worldwide.
Shame then that we're sitting back and watching one of our most creative industries face ruin. And if you are illegally file-sharing, you're contributing to the damage.
Illegal file-sharing damages music because it harms new artists.
When you start in a music career, you need money to establish and promote yourself and pay for your material to be recorded.
This money comes from music sales, because when you're a new artist you can't make enough from gigs or selling T-shirts.
If you can't sell your music, you can't go on. It's that simple.
File-sharing cuts off income at the most crucial, cash-strapped point in emerging artists' careers, which means that a generation of new artists won't be able to break through.
I'm not against digital - how could I be? Overall, the internet has had a great effect on music and legal streaming has been positive for my career.
It's because I understand the internet that I'm not afraid to call illegal file-sharing what it is - the biggest threat to British music's future.
Hurt
I blogged about this last week and got hundreds of replies. Some said, "You're rich, so stop moaning."
They're missing the point - this isn't about me. I'm lucky, I've broken through.
Smithy
20-03-2010, 01:37 PM
The people being hurt by file-sharing are those that haven't got there yet.
The up-and-coming acts as well as the session musicians, song writers and all the others involved in making music, that can't make up the money lost from file-sharing by going on big tours.
Discussing legal means and new ways of accessing music is fine - stopping piracy is going to need innovation too - but we can't move forwards until we start acting against illegal file-sharing, making people understand it's wrong.
The solution is for the government to work out, but tough action may be what's needed to make a difference.
You might not want to agree with me but other artists think the same.
Our music is miles apart but from Muse to N-Dubz to James Blunt to Taio Cruz to Gary Barlow to Tinchy Stryder and Elton John, artists agree file-sharing hurts British music.
If we don't attack piracy - don't defend new artists - British music will be stuck in the past. And illegal file-sharing will have ruined British music for the next generation.
Captain.Remy
20-03-2010, 01:38 PM
I'm not getting involved in this one. Stu, stay out of it too: I want to watch the rugby today hee hee.
You know today is the big day buddy boy ! :hugesmile: It should be a great afternoon and an amazing night.
The music industry will be better off in the long run. It's being run by a group of manipulative schysters and it was long overdue for a good kick up the ass.
For every band that is suffering at the hands of illegal downloading, think of all the bands who have built up huge fan bases through the internet.
Patrick
20-03-2010, 01:39 PM
Was watching somthing on BBC1 the other night called Paramoral or somthing like that, and they were talking about how the UK Downloads alot of illegal tracks.
Surprisingly, alot of artists dont mind about this.
Its the record lables that are pissed off.
But so, its the artist we care about not the Record Lables.. even if they do own the artist =/
The goverment are apperantly trying to bring in a law..
If your caught downloading illegal music, they will get your IP and send you a letter as a warning.
If you do it again, they will send you another letter apperantly 'abit harsher'
If you do it again (This is the part the singers got pissed off about) The goverment will make sure your internet is SLOWED DOWN so you wouldnt want to wait 2 hours for 3 minute song to download.
If your caught again, they completely disconnect you from the internet forever.
I hope this law is never introduced to the UK, Its VERY Unfair to everyone FFS.
Captain.Remy
20-03-2010, 01:41 PM
If your caught downloading illegal music, they will get your IP and send you a letter as a warning.
If you do it again, they will send you another letter apperantly 'abit harsher'
If you do it again (This is the part the singers got pissed off about) The goverment will make sure your internet is SLOWED DOWN so you wouldnt want to wait 2 hours for 3 minute song to download.
If your caught again, they completely disconnect you from the internet forever.
It's from France actually and the law is about to take place in...10 days. And they won't do the 3rd step. After the second letter, you must not get caught for a whole year. If you do, you get in front of the judge and they cut your Internet access and you still must be paying for it.
I don't give a damn anyway because I download my music from Youtube.
xDramatick
20-03-2010, 01:42 PM
Was watching somthing on BBC1 the other night called Paramoral or somthing like that, and they were talking about how the UK Downloads alot of illegal tracks.
Surprisingly, alot of artists dont mind about this.
Its the record lables that are pissed off.
But so, its the artist we care about not the Record Lables.. even if they do own the artist =/
The goverment are apperantly trying to bring in a law..
If your caught downloading illegal music, they will get your IP and send you a letter as a warning.
If you do it again, they will send you another letter apperantly 'abit harsher'
If you do it again (This is the part the singers got pissed off about) The goverment will make sure your internet is SLOWED DOWN so you wouldnt want to wait 2 hours for 3 minute song to download.
If your caught again, they completely disconnect you from the internet forever.
I hope this law is never introduced to the UK, Its VERY Unfair to everyone FFS.
I doubt the internet companies would be particularly happy about that :/
They'd lose too much money if people kept getting disconnected for illegal downloads.
Captain.Remy
20-03-2010, 01:43 PM
I doubt the internet companies would be particularly happy about that :/
They'd lose too much money if people kept getting disconnected for illegal downloads.
If the UK government does the same thing the French one did then the customers will still have to monthly pay the internet companies the same price they used to from 1 to 3 years (depending on how much you downloaded) so it doesn't make any change for the internet companies.
Smithy
20-03-2010, 01:44 PM
Would that law still count if i download music off of youtube?
Captain.Remy
20-03-2010, 01:45 PM
Would that law still count if i download music off of youtube?
No don't worry, you're safe. So am I. :hugesmile: BitTorrent/µtorrent/Azureus/.... (any torrent downloading service) and eMule are concerned. Any file sharing system to be frank.
DownloadHelper on Youtube doesn't count
Smithy
20-03-2010, 01:46 PM
No don't worry, you're safe. So am I. :hugesmile: BitTorrent/µtorrent/Azureus/.... (any torrent downloading service) and eMule are concerned. Any file sharing system to be frank.
DownloadHelper on Youtube doesn't count
Phew :p
Patrick
20-03-2010, 01:46 PM
Would that law still count if i download music off of youtube?
I think what they ment on that show was downloading off Bearshare and Limewire etc.
Thats what it showed on the show anyway, logos from Limewire and stuff.
I use Video2MP3 to download of Youtube, I dont think they would actually consider that as illegal downloading for some reason.. probley because its off a site and not of an illegal software like Limewire.
I dont use Limewire anymore though, it has too much viruses.
So I think if you stay clear of Limewire, Bearshare etc then they wont pick up on you doing it.
The stupid idiots also mentioned on the show that you can hide your IP address from them VIA A Proxy so its hilarious that they just scared everyone into not downloading, and then at the end were like 'Although you can use a proxy site :)' :joker:
Patrick
20-03-2010, 01:47 PM
No don't worry, you're safe. So am I. :hugesmile: BitTorrent/µtorrent/Azureus/.... (any torrent downloading service) and eMule are concerned. Any file sharing system to be frank.
DownloadHelper on Youtube doesn't count
Yeah this is true.
On the BBC1 Show they kept showing UTorrent and Pirate Bay :joker:
So if anyone uses them, they should probley stop if that law is brought into the country.
Seriously, how do you listen to music from YouTube. It's horrible. Even the cleanest of videos will sound muddled and unspectacular when listened to through some good headphones or speakers.
setanta
20-03-2010, 01:49 PM
You know today is the big day buddy boy ! :hugesmile: It should be a great afternoon and an amazing night.
You know, it's a funny old game because France only truly convinced me of their ability in the Ireland match. Ok, I didn't bother with Italian or Scottish matches really, but against Wales you were very lucky to get the win. Anyway, if you play like you did in that second half England could grind out a result. Having said that, your pack can be awsome.
Actually think Wales v Italy could be a doozie.
Captain.Remy
20-03-2010, 01:49 PM
I have 10 days left to download films like a massive ***** :eek::eek:
:joker:
Smithy
20-03-2010, 01:49 PM
Seriously, how do you listen to music from YouTube. It's horrible. Even the cleanest of videos will sound muddled and unspectacular when listened to through some good headphones or speakers.
they dont though, youdownload them and convert them to mp3, they sound just as good as a normal iTunes download.
Free Studio Manager, does it all
Patrick
20-03-2010, 01:50 PM
Seriously, how do you listen to music from YouTube. It's horrible. Even the cleanest of videos will sound muddled and unspectacular when listened to through some good headphones or speakers.
Depends where you download them from.
I download them as a MP3 and they sound just fine tbh.
Captain.Remy
20-03-2010, 01:52 PM
they dont though, youdownload them and convert them to mp3, they sound just as good as a normal iTunes download.
Free Studio Manager, does it all
There we go.
The French government is eating its balls right now because they're screwed. No one uses eMule or µtorrent. Since the law got voted, dozens and dozens of websites hosted in foreign countries give direct download links so no need for downloading softwares anymore. :hugesmile:
And then DownloadHelper put the cherry on the cake.
they dont though, youdownload them and convert them to mp3, they sound just as good as a normal iTunes download.
Free Studio Manager, does it all
Bah, iTUNES downloads and MP3 are trash too. I know, I'm being a complete audiophile here. Special meniton goes to the bellends who use iTUNE's soul destroying sound enhancer function.
Me and Arista are in the back with a record player and sub woofers.
Of course it's theft. The question should be: Do I care?
Smithy
20-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Bah, iTUNES downloads and MP3 are trash too. I know, I'm being a complete audiophile here. Special meniton goes to the bellends who use iTUNE's soul destroying sound enhancer function.
Me and Arista are in the back with a record player and sub woofers.
:shocked:
I saw a TV show once, where they were rating Vinyl, CD's and MP3 on quality of music (they did it blindfolded) and MP3 came out on top (Which they were really surprised by too :p)
Smithy
20-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Of course it's theft. The question should be: Do I care?
Ok, Do you care? and justify your answer.
Ok, Do you care? and justify your answer.
No I don't care. I steal music all the time. Why? Because 1. the music I like is usually difficult to find. 2. I don't like paying for anything if I know I can get it for free and 3. I'm a thieving bastard.
:shocked:
I saw a TV show once, where they were rating Vinyl, CD's and MP3 on quality of music (they did it blindfolded) and MP3 came out on top (Which they were really surprised by too :p)
I would have to call bollocks, but a lot of it depends on the genre of music and changing production and mastering techniques. A lot of newer artists would obviously produce to sound good on newer audio formats. To this end a lot of records these days by artists like the Black Eyed Peas have absoloutely no definition of depth in the sound, with piss poor dynamic range. All they care about as pure loudness in order to get radio airplay and stand out to internet afflicted, ADD kids.
Harry!
20-03-2010, 02:08 PM
I rarely download music anyway. I buy CD's mostly and listen to songs on the web and not downloding them. I only download a few remixes and only a few.
Smithy
20-03-2010, 02:16 PM
I just found this :D
XOq_nH_Mt3M
^ horrible website. What if you wanna download albums? Many of those tracks could be infected. Nah, stick with torrents.
Smithy
20-03-2010, 02:22 PM
Theres more than one site oin the vid
GypsyGoth
20-03-2010, 02:23 PM
I am a criminal.
arista
20-03-2010, 02:26 PM
I was reading the paper earlier and saw an article which said something like 60% of people who illegally download music didnt see it as theft.
So just wondering if you do, and if not, why not?
Yes it is Theft
They should have there Internet Cut Off for a year
Smithy
20-03-2010, 02:29 PM
I am a criminal.
You stole my clothes hoe :nono:
GypsyGoth
20-03-2010, 02:33 PM
You stole my clothes hoe :nono:
And they suit me better :hugesmile:
Smithy
20-03-2010, 02:35 PM
And they suit me better :hugesmile:
Touché
MeMyselfAndI
20-03-2010, 02:36 PM
no it obviously isnt and anyway i buy all my albums from town i got sugababes sweet 7 and its really good:)
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 02:37 PM
It doesn't affect the bigger artists as much as they make their money from tours, merchandise etc and generally sell sh.it loads of CD's anyway. However, for musicians with smaller fan bases, they need the revenue to keep going. They can't make that from gigs etc, so they rely on income from their album sales. I generally support the independent artists I like and buy their CD's or pay for downloads. I don't download free stuff very often, but when I do, it's mainly older stuff that's not available in the shops anymore. If it's not available for sale, and I have to buy it second hand, I am not paying money to the artist in that case. They get nothing from it, so why not download it for free?
Beastie
20-03-2010, 02:39 PM
Yeah but some people can't afford cds or albulms!
MeMyselfAndI
20-03-2010, 02:40 PM
Yeah but some people can't afford cds or albulms!
like who:conf:
they r cheap i get like 2 a week
Twilight
20-03-2010, 02:42 PM
like who:conf:
they r cheap i get like 2 a week
Like me
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 02:43 PM
Yeah but some people can't afford cds or albulms!
There are a lot of things people cannot afford. I just bought several CD's off HMV website for £2.99 each. There is a lot of cheap stuff out there.
MeMyselfAndI
20-03-2010, 02:46 PM
Like me
ohhh im allowed to get 2 albums a week bacicly £15
Twilight
20-03-2010, 02:48 PM
Cds aren't cheap if you need them importing from the USA.
Princess
20-03-2010, 02:49 PM
I only illegally download if I can't find the song anywhere else. Usually I buy cd's and if I can't find the cd I download and if I can't find a download I'll illegally download. So yeah it's their own fault for making it so difficult to get in the first place.
Twilight
20-03-2010, 02:50 PM
ohhh im allowed to get 2 albums a week bacicly £15
My family is poor + i can get gig tickets for that much money, and i can just download albums, and buy them at a later date.
Twilight
20-03-2010, 02:57 PM
I have 283 albums in itunes, if they all cost like £10 that over £2000
Harry!
20-03-2010, 02:59 PM
I always buy CD's because I love the artwork and some of them are quite rare. I do like collecting things and have neally all of Madonna's albums because of it.
I dont like downloads I only have a few mp3 tracks.
Shasown
20-03-2010, 03:00 PM
Yes I download music and videos illegally, I also because of my downloading go out and actually buy more music as a result, music in genres and from artistes I would not normally have considered.
It was claimed in a Panarama program last week that illegal downloaders actually spend more money as a result. I dont know the validity of the survey they used but it stated that illegal downloaders actually spend as much as three times a year more on buying music than people who dont downlaod.
Perhaps music industry bosses should look at their pricing policy when they charge 8 quid for a cd that costs just pennies to manufacture and distribute. Same with the movie industry really. Why pay top dollar for a cd/dvd when it is released if you want to wait a few weeks it will appear in the bargain bucket of one store or another?
If the results of the panarama survey actually holds any validity arent the music industry in danger of alienating music buyers who try before they buy. Resulting in overall fewer sales.
I know if the proposed law warning, then restricting access to the internet for illegal downloading, actually comes into effect, myself and others will try ip hiding programs etc then if still threatened will probably reduce the amount of downloading we do. This in turn would mean I wont have access to other forms of music not generally available on the radio stations or TV channels I use and therefore I wont be persuaded to buy it.
Isnt it really a case of some parts of the music industry cutting off their noses to spite their faces in the pursuit of more money? Which in a few years may actually cause a dramatic drop in the number of overall sales. I think it would be hilarious if that did indeed turn out to be the case.
Smithy
20-03-2010, 03:02 PM
Perhaps music industry bosses should look at their pricing policy when they charge 8 quid for a cd that costs just pennies to manufacture and distribute. Same with the movie industry really. Why pay top dollar for a cd/dvd when it is released if you want to wait a few weeks it will appear in the bargain bucket of one store or another?
Ik i'd deffo, buy it legally if it was cheaper, apart from stuff which hasnt been released or is a demo etc.
Beastie
20-03-2010, 03:04 PM
There are a lot of things people cannot afford. I just bought several CD's off HMV website for £2.99 each. There is a lot of cheap stuff out there.
Yeah I like to get a bargain but sometimes when albulms are new released at a tenner.. some people rather download illegally from the net if they want it on their ipod. Spending a tenner on cds quite frequently.. well some people cannot afford that!
Beastie
20-03-2010, 03:06 PM
I usually buy cheap DVD's. I have not downloaded a film from the net before. Quicker to download music!
LewisMarvel
20-03-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't see it as illegal
I have 283 albums in itunes, if they all cost like £10 that over £2000
If my maths is correct (and believe me, it sucks), if an album is typically 100MB, then you would need nearly 3TB of hard drive storage to hold 283 albums.
Beastie
20-03-2010, 03:12 PM
I have never bought anything from itunes. I either get the actual cd or free download.
xDramatick
20-03-2010, 03:29 PM
If my maths is correct (and believe me, it sucks), if an album is typically 100MB, then you would need nearly 3TB of hard drive storage to hold 283 albums.
Not necessarily..
I've got over 500 albums [though to be fair, they range in filesize/number of songs, some albums only have one/two songs, whereas others have over 20] and it comes to just over 29GB.
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 03:30 PM
Yeah I like to get a bargain but sometimes when albulms are new released at a tenner.. some people rather download illegally from the net if they want it on their ipod. Spending a tenner on cds quite frequently.. well some people cannot afford that!
It's very rare I ever pay full price for a CD. I usually wait until it's on offer. Shops and websites have promotions on all the time. I don't have to have it on the day it comes out, but then again, if I was 16 I most probably would NEED it there and then.
The ability to illegally download stuff has it's pros and cons. The record industry both gain and lose with it. As was said above, you have greater exposure on the web, now more than ever before, to music, and it is readily accessible. That can introduce you to stuff you may not normally hear on radio/TV etc. So it can in fact generate more sales.
A lot of newer artists put their stuff out there, and make it accessible to the public, simply to get themselves heard, whereas as some of the more major artists don't really care as it does not affect them directly. Take Radiohead as an example. They gave their fans the choice to pay what they wanted for "In Rainbows". Mainly because they aren't tied to a record label, but also they know it will get them wider exposure, and most probably attract a wider crowd to their live shows.
There will never be a solution to this debate, as it has both it's good points, and it's bad. It's up to the individual to decide. Record companies will never get round this problem, and as Shasown said above, they should be careful as they could be cutting their nose of to spite their face.
Not necessarily..
I've got over 500 albums [though to be fair, they range in filesize/number of songs, some albums only have one/two songs, whereas others have over 20] and it comes to just over 29GB.
Ah, my maths failed me then. :(
I don't think I have ever had over 100 albums, even downloaded. It's pointless having an album if you only like one or two songs on it. I only listen to albums first and if I really like it then I download.
Zippy
20-03-2010, 03:41 PM
We can record stuff off TV for free. Although technically it has all kinds of copyright issues. But nobody gives a ***** about them. Even the law doesn't care.
So I dont see how downloading music for free is any different. You can record music videos from MTV. Same difference....you get a copy of it for free.
And Im sure people make music ultimately for it to be heard by as many as possible. Unless youre a cold cynical act like Westlife who have always just had their eye on the money...***** the creativity.
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 03:43 PM
We can record stuff off TV for free. Although technically it has all kinds of copyright issues. But nobody gives a ***** about them. Even the law doesn't care.
Yeah but you have to pay a TV licence.
Zippy
20-03-2010, 03:46 PM
Yeah but you have to pay a TV licence.
Do you? Nobody told me. :hugesmile:
And the licence isnt to do with your right to record programmes.
Twilight
20-03-2010, 03:51 PM
If my maths is correct (and believe me, it sucks), if an album is typically 100MB, then you would need nearly 3TB of hard drive storage to hold 283 albums.
Really? but Itunes says i have that many, maybe its lying:P
Edit:
Sorry seen what you put after:P
Smithy
20-03-2010, 03:52 PM
But when you record a programme you dont put it online for others to see. With music you can do, which is what the fuss is about
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 03:53 PM
Do you? Nobody told me. :hugesmile:
And the licence isnt to do with your right to record programmes.
Yeah but if you didn't have one, you would be only able to watch it illegally. Which is the same thing as we are discussing here about music. I wonder how many people would turn around and say "Fu.ck this. I am not paying my TV licence. I'll watch programmes illegally on my set or online"?? I doubt very many. I know I wouldn't.
Zippy
20-03-2010, 03:58 PM
Once your music is out there you have to just except that millions will grab it for free. Its just the way it is and theres no putting the genie back in the bottle. Artists now have to find other ways to make their dosh. Like playing live. God forbid they have to actually go out there and sing for their supper.
And Im sure all these people whinging about the issue have themselves downloaded stuff for free too. Hypocrites.
Beastie
20-03-2010, 03:58 PM
It's very rare I ever pay full price for a CD. I usually wait until it's on offer. Shops and websites have promotions on all the time. I don't have to have it on the day it comes out, but then again, if I was 16 I most probably would NEED it there and then.
The ability to illegally download stuff has it's pros and cons. The record industry both gain and lose with it. As was said above, you have greater exposure on the web, now more than ever before, to music, and it is readily accessible. That can introduce you to stuff you may not normally hear on radio/TV etc. So it can in fact generate more sales.
A lot of newer artists put their stuff out there, and make it accessible to the public, simply to get themselves heard, whereas as some of the more major artists don't really care as it does not affect them directly. Take Radiohead as an example. They gave their fans the choice to pay what they wanted for "In Rainbows". Mainly because they aren't tied to a record label, but also they know it will get them wider exposure, and most probably attract a wider crowd to their live shows.
There will never be a solution to this debate, as it has both it's good points, and it's bad. It's up to the individual to decide. Record companies will never get round this problem, and as Shasown said above, they should be careful as they could be cutting their nose of to spite their face.
Lol yeah it is just accessible. Also if they want to stop it all happening then they would have to shutdown major websites like youtube!!
Ooo I look on play.com and hmv.com everyday for bargains! lol
Beastie
20-03-2010, 04:00 PM
But when you record a programme you dont put it online for others to see. With music you can do, which is what the fuss is about
Thank god for demand 5 and 4od and bbc I player etc.. on the internet!
Yes its theft but its no worse now than it was 15 years ago. Its just that technology has moved on, 15 years ago people were taping off the radio.
Personally I think you're a mug if you'll buy music when you can get it for free.
arista
20-03-2010, 06:26 PM
I don't see it as illegal
You Will
once they Cut your House Internet Off.
MrGaryy
20-03-2010, 06:28 PM
according to the Panorama special on illegal downloading, those who illegally download generally spend 60% more on music in a year than those who buy legally. Most illegal downloaders either download to see if an album is worth buying OR will buy it if they feel the artist deserves it anyway. I illegally download **** loads but I say I still spent over 100 pounds on music last year.
still though to be on the safe side
-moves to Ireland-
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 06:32 PM
Personally I think you're a mug if you'll buy music when you can get it for free.
So you don't pay for music at all if you can find it on the internet?
So you don't pay for music at all if you can find it on the internet?
No. I haven't bought a genuine album for about 10 years. I think its pointless. All my music just ends up on an SD card anyway (MP3 stick before that).
Patrick
20-03-2010, 06:36 PM
I just checked my 'Music' folder with all my music downloads since 2008.
In total it says here I have downloaded 839 Illegal Music Tracks LOL
Plus the albums I downloaded which are in a seperate folder lol
MeMyselfAndI
20-03-2010, 06:41 PM
You Will
once they Cut your House Internet Off.
what!:conf:
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 06:41 PM
No. I haven't bought a genuine album for about 10 years. I think its pointless. All my music just ends up on an SD card anyway (MP3 stick before that).
So you think paying for music is pointless if you can get it for free. So if everybody thought the same, and everybody downloaded stuff for free, do you think we would have half as many artists round as we do today?
So you think paying for music is pointless if you can get it for free. So if everybody thought the same, and everybody downloaded stuff for free, do you think we would have half as many artists round as we do today?
But everybody doesn't think the same and enough people are foolish enough to still buy music. Plus I prefer digital music, some prefer physical so I don't think it would be all that bad anyway.
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 06:44 PM
But everybody doesn't think the same.
THe question was hypothetical. Of course.
Shaun
20-03-2010, 06:46 PM
I do buy what I can. Though usually as a side-effect from illegal downloading.
Patrick
20-03-2010, 06:49 PM
what!:conf:
My god.
Just read the bloody 1st Page.
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 06:49 PM
I do buy what I can. Though usually as a side-effect from illegal downloading.
Well Tom would have you down for a fool like the rest of us who spend money on music as he so eloquently puts in his usual patronizing way.
Well Tom would have you down for a fool like the rest of us who spend money on music as he so eloquently puts in his usual patronizing way.
I think Shaun prefers physical music. I see no problem with buying it from HMV or wherever if you prefer that, but I just think its daft that you'll buy something online that you can get for free.
I'm not patronising btw.
Jords
20-03-2010, 06:57 PM
Not really, else I would be locked up for it. :laugh:
I always illegally download my music unless I love that particular artist/album then I will buy the actual CD as I like the fact its something I can hold kinda thing and would want to support them.
I used to use Limewire which was gawd awful but did the job (eventually), but now I use YouTube downloader and its fine imo and uninstalled Limewire, glad I would be safe with that.
I used to download films using uTorrent but havnt for ages, will get rid of it if my internet could get cut off because of it if that law gets passed.
MrGaryy
20-03-2010, 06:57 PM
I'm not patronising btw.
there's one for the sig.
there's one for the sig.
LOL!! I could probably take that from anyone else but you're one of the most patronising people on here. Whats so patronising about me?
I think Shaun prefers physical music. I see no problem with buying it from HMV or wherever if you prefer that, but I just think its daft that you'll buy something online that you can get for free.
I'm not patronising btw.
Some people have a deep rooted interest in music. I'm proud to be able to say 'yeah, I own Revolver, Violator, Dark Side Of The Moon, other classics and stuff'.
I love albums. Not zeros and ones on a computer.
Can I just ask, to those who insist on legally downloading music, do you watch TV shows online?
Shasown
20-03-2010, 07:17 PM
according to the Panorama special on illegal downloading, those who illegally download generally spend 60% more on music in a year than those who buy legally. Most illegal downloaders either download to see if an album is worth buying OR will buy it if they feel the artist deserves it anyway. I illegally download **** loads but I say I still spent over 100 pounds on music last year.
still though to be on the safe side
-moves to Ireland-
Cheers MrG backingup my earlier post, will give you the name of a working hide ip program that will get round the copyright holders being able to see your true IP on fileshare sites etc.
Can I just ask, to those who insist on legally downloading music, do you watch TV shows online?
Well I don't legally download, I buy physical albums. Yes, I watch virtually everything online. I don't see the conflict. I have a deep rooted passion for music, my favourite artists, and my favourite albums. I watch telly to have a few laughs when I get stoned. Telly is very much a recreational thing. Music isn't.
For me, at least. But what would I know, I'm a mug.
Patrick
20-03-2010, 07:17 PM
Can I just ask, to those who insist on legally downloading music, do you watch TV shows online?
Not really.
Like if theres a TV Show that isnt avaidable to watch in the UK.. Like the Real World then I would watch it online.
Same with re-watching BBUK.
Although the only show I really would watch online alot is South Park just because when im annoyed it would make me laugh, and Comedy Central dont put it on to late.
Shasown
20-03-2010, 07:21 PM
If you live in the UK and watch or record TV shows in realtime online (thats any sort of TV from any TV station in the world) and you dont have a TV licence for the location where you are watching them, you are breaking the law. Not everyone knows that.
Well I don't legally download, I buy physical albums. Yes, I watch virtually everything online. I don't see the conflict. I have a deep rooted passion for music, my favourite artists, and my favourite albums. I watch telly to have a few laughs when I get stoned. Telly is very much a recreational thing. Music isn't.
For me, at least. But what would I know, I'm a mug.
If people insist on legally downloading then I think its daft if they'll admit to watching TV shows online, especially if they're shown here in the UK a few months down the line. A lot of their arguments can end up being switched around on themselves. Plus you buy physicals anyway, its not really the same as legal downloading because when you buy a physical CD, its not just the music that you get.
I'd also say that music is just as recreational as TV to a lot of people ...
If people insist on legally downloading then I think its daft if they'll admit to watching TV shows online
Not really. They are two different things. Some people are totally gay for an artist and want to support them. I rather physicals myself but each to there own.
I'd also say that music is just as recreational as TV to a lot of people ...
Obviously. It's a matter of opinion. I would say the balance *tips* ever so slightly though to music. A lot of people define there lives by music. I doubt as many do by Lost or Desperate Housewives.
Harry!
20-03-2010, 07:31 PM
People do not just buy CD's for the music themselves you know Tom. The artwork and collecting albums by there fave singers is quite inportant for fans.
Shaun
20-03-2010, 07:31 PM
*doesn't watch anything online*
Merely because of the quality, the space it would consume and I prefer watching at a pace with which my friends are level.
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 07:33 PM
I think Shaun prefers physical music. I see no problem with buying it from HMV or wherever if you prefer that, but I just think its daft that you'll buy something online that you can get for free.
I'm not patronising btw.
I prefer physical music formats myself. Whether it be CD or vinyl, but I do download too sometimes. And that's my opinion btw. Basically you are calling me a fool for paying for music. That's your opinion too. And what has watching TV online got to do with it? I pay my TV licence as I am sure you do, no?
I prefer physical music formats myself. Whether it be CD or vinyl, but I do download too sometimes. And that's my opinion btw. Basically you are calling me a fool for paying for music. That's your opinion too. And what has watching TV online got to do with it? I pay my TV licence as I am sure you do, no?
TV license is only so you can watch BBC1-4, CBBC, CBeebies as well as the BBC radio stations and the website. If you're watching something over the internet from another country then thats illegal because its copyrighted and only intended for a specific country, and if its a show like Desperate Housewives that is shown in the UK, those who watch it early over the internet are costing Channel 4 money because the ratings will be lower, so they won't be able to charge as much for adverts. IMO its the same principle. The same goes for films, games, DVDs etc.
And yes, I do pay mine.
TV license is only so you can watch BBC1-4, CBBC, CBeebies as well as the BBC radio stations and the website. If you're watching something over the internet from another country then thats illegal because its copyrighted and only intended for a specific country, and if its a show like Desperate Housewives that is shown in the UK, those who watch it early over the internet are costing Channel 4 money because the ratings will be lower, so they won't be able to charge as much for adverts. IMO its the same principle. The same goes for films, games, DVDs etc.
And yes, I do pay mine.
No. It's not. Because certain people like buying albums but don't mind breaking the law to watch shows online. Equating the two is pointless when people hold them to different levels of opinion and importance.
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 08:07 PM
TV license is only so you can watch BBC1-4, CBBC, CBeebies as well as the BBC radio stations and the website. If you're watching something over the internet from another country then thats illegal because its copyrighted and only intended for a specific country, and if its a show like Desperate Housewives that is shown in the UK, those who watch it early over the internet are costing Channel 4 money because the ratings will be lower, so they won't be able to charge as much for adverts. IMO its the same principle. The same goes for films, games, DVDs etc.
And yes, I do pay mine.
I only watch BBCi player very rarely. 4OD once or twice. Wanted to be sure what you meant by "watching TV online". TV licence lets me watch Channel 4 and 5 also I do believe. If I choose to watch freeview it also covers that.
No. It's not. Because certain people like buying albums but don't mind breaking the law to watch shows online. Equating the two is pointless when people hold them to different levels of opinion and importance.
Why is the principle of it any different? Either way its piracy and someone loses out for your own personal gain.
Mrluvaluva
20-03-2010, 08:09 PM
It's like you're arguing with yourself Tom. :joker:
Why is the principle of it any different? Either way its piracy and someone loses out for your own personal gain.
Right, and some people choose not to care about that for TV shows, but buy albums because they like the artists, and because they have more of a vested interest in music than in TV shows.
Christ, how hard is it to understand? It's like you just want to keep on arguing no matter what.
Right, and some people choose not to care about that for TV shows, but buy albums because they like the artists, and because they have more of a vested interest in music than in TV shows.
Christ, how hard is it to understand? It's like you just want to keep on arguing no matter what.
I get that bit, but if you're going to tell other people not to illegally download on the grounds of piracy and it costing the industry, then what right do them people have to basically do the same but for TV? Obviously its not affecting the TV industry as much as it is with the music industry, but whether or not you have more of a vested interest in music, the bottom line is its still piracy and its still costing others.
Its EXACTLY the same no matter how you sugar coat it down to personal interests and preferences. Thats the bit you don't seem to be understanding.
I get that bit, but if you're going to tell other people not to illegally download
I don't tell people not to illegally download, do I?
what right do them people have to basically do the same but for TV? .
Because, as I already explained, they care deeply for the music, but not the same for telly.
Its EXACTLY the same no matter how you sugar coat it down to personal interests and preferences. Thats the bit you don't seem to be understanding.
The act itself is the same, yes, but some people care about one and not the other. Jesus. ****ing. Christ.
I'm not misunderstanding anything. Please stop assuming that I am.
The principals of both are the same. Downloading music illegally? Illegal. Downloading TV shows illegally? Illegal.
But some people care about the music and not the TV shows. Simple. It's not a contradiction in their ethics, because in their ethics TV simply does not matter as much to them as music.
Most people would eat fried chicken but not fried dog. The principal of killing an animal is the same, but people care about the dog. Bad comparison, but damnit I have to illustrate it somehow.
I don't tell people not to illegally download, do I?
Never said you did, it was 'you're' in the collective sense/in a hypothetical sense.
Because, as I already explained, they care deeply for the music, but not the same for telly.
The act itself is the same, yes, but some people care about one and not the other. Jesus. ****ing. Christ.
Its still the same principle
I'm not misunderstanding anything. Please stop assuming that I am.
I refer you to above.
The principals of both are the same. Downloading music illegally? Illegal. Downloading TV shows illegally? Illegal.
But some people care about the music and not the TV shows. Simple. It's not a contradiction in their ethics, because in their ethics TV simply does not matter as much to them as music.
It is a contradiction of their ethics, whether or not they care about TV its still exactly the same thing. What about the film industry? I bet some people who go on about legally downloading music have a few films in their torrent list.
Most people would eat fried chicken but not fried dog. The principal of killing an animal is the same, but people care about the dog. Bad comparison, but damnit I have to illustrate it somehow.
More like an appalling comparison purely just to try and demonstrate your own view and not show it in the bigger picture ... most people eat chicken, noone (here at least) eats dog. The equivalent in this argument is most people listening to music, but noone watching TV, when its quite the opposite for TV.
Yes, it's still the same thing, but they have an interest in one and not the other. Don't even bring principals into it, because not everyone cares. Let's just assume someone does not give a flying **** either way. They want to invest in music. Not movies. Simple. Principal has got nothing to do with it. It's a redundant argument. When you started out you were not questioning anybodies principals because you clearly have none yourself because you happily download. You were wondering why someone would bother to buy music and multiple people told you.
They care about the music.
They don't care about the telly.
You can't bring principal into it because not everybody has the same principals. It's just pointless arguing it. Your creating a hypothetical person and criticizing him for downloading movies and not music in order to have something to argue with. It's pointless.
But its like buying something from one shop because you love the store, but would happily steal from somewhere else because you don't really care about that shop.
Principle has everything to do with it, its just redundant because you've decided it goes against what you're arguing against.
The bottom line is, its piracy.
and I wasn't questionning my own anyway, I was just wondering if anyone sees fit to illegally download when it suits them.
But its like buying something from one shop because you love the store, but would happily steal from somewhere else because you don't really care about that shop.
Principle has everything to do with it, its just redundant because you've decided it goes against what you're arguing against.
The bottom line is, its piracy.
and I wasn't questionning my own anyway, I was just wondering if anyone sees fit to illegally download when it suits them.
Of course it's piracy. Who exactly is denying that? Jesus H. Christ. Some people just like pirating movies and not music. Not because of an ethical contradiction but because they JUST. LIKE. BUYING. MUSIC.
I don't buy albums and download movies because I am a hypocrite. I just like buying albums. I'm not violating a principal because I don't care about the principals. I just. Want. To. Buy. Albums. I mean ... I download music too!
Shasown
21-03-2010, 01:45 AM
TV license is only so you can watch BBC1-4, CBBC, CBeebies as well as the BBC radio stations and the website. If you're watching something over the internet from another country then thats illegal because its copyrighted and only intended for a specific country, and if its a show like Desperate Housewives that is shown in the UK, those who watch it early over the internet are costing Channel 4 money because the ratings will be lower, so they won't be able to charge as much for adverts. IMO its the same principle. The same goes for films, games, DVDs etc.
And yes, I do pay mine.
Ccccccrrrrraaaaapppppppp. Why dont people who claim something as fact actually check what they are stating?
The TV licence funds those, a TV licence allows you to have possession of any equipment, that includes mobile phones and computers, that can receive live TV it doesnt have to come to you through an aerial. Check your own TV licence, next time you get a reminder for it, check that too.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jul/29/watching-tv-computers
Whilst it may be next to impossible to enforce, its still technically an offence to watch any TV in the UK that is live streaming at the time of broadcast without a valid TV licence. That means on a mobile phone, on a computer via the internet, using a playstation or Xbox. For example, If you buy an Xbox for a location that is not registered as having a TV licence you will receive a licence demand.
From a recently issued Licence(my own)
TV is defined as television receiving equipment such as a TV set, computer mobile phone games console digital box or DVD/VHS recorder.
.... to watch or record any TV programmes as they are being shown on television. This includes watching or recording streamed services and satellite TV broadcast from outside of the UK. If you only watch on-demand services then you dont need a licence.
Smithy
21-03-2010, 04:37 PM
:bawling:
I just wanted to know if you thought it was theft, i didnt want your whole friggin life story
Y'all ruined my thread :(
Harry!
21-03-2010, 04:53 PM
:bawling:
I just wanted to know if you thought it was theft, i didnt want your whole friggin life story
Y'all ruined my thread :(
Smithy this is in serious debates not chat and games. Essays are common in this section.
Smithy
21-03-2010, 05:04 PM
Smithy this is in serious debates not chat and games. Essays are common in this section.
Yea, but id prefer if it was on topic
Mrluvaluva
21-03-2010, 05:07 PM
Yea, but id prefer if it was on topic
I thought much of it pretty well was? :shrug:
Yea, but id prefer if it was on topic
It is. Unless I'm missing something. We were having a serious debate about the ethics of downloading.
Unless you would rather we just threw pies at each other?
Because I wouldn't mind that.
Smithy
21-03-2010, 05:12 PM
It is. Unless I'm missing something. We were having a serious debate about the ethics of downloading.
Unless you would rather we just threw pies at each other?
Because I wouldn't mind that.
omg, yea throwing pies would be great
but post a vid :hugesmile:
Shasown
21-03-2010, 05:29 PM
omg, yea throwing pies would be great
but post a vid :hugesmile:
Sorry mate didnt realise you simply wanted a straw poll and a video. I apologise from the heart of my bottom. Lets start again then eh? In answer to your question:
Yes I do.
Heres your vid
cagH334g5Lg
Smithy
21-03-2010, 05:45 PM
Sorry mate didnt realise you simply wanted a straw poll and a video. I apologise from the heart of my bottom. Lets start again then eh? In answer to your question:
Yes I do.
Heres your vid
cagH334g5Lg
Sorry were you even involved in that ^?
Shasown
21-03-2010, 05:49 PM
Nope, you said you wanted a vid, thats the first one i found on you tube, is it okay?
Smithy
21-03-2010, 05:50 PM
Nope, you said you wanted a vid, thats the first one i found on you tube, is it okay?
No, i said i wanted a vid of stu throwing pies at people
Shasown
21-03-2010, 06:08 PM
No, i said i wanted a vid of stu throwing pies at people
Oh thats good then the vid I selected has a man making pies, or was that the next one in the series, can't remember, dont know if its Stu though, highly unlikely to be him though.
hennessy
21-03-2010, 09:49 PM
I started buying CDs when they 1st came out and they were expensive, started to buy Mididisc but stopped when they died so carried on. Kept scratching had to buy again, the worse is when I moved (about 3 times) and had to carry 100's of dvds and cd around.
I thought eff that, buy a terabyte and carry it around with ease.
plus the collection I want of movies, music, books and comics would cost a small fortune so I torrent like a mad man.
Zippy
22-03-2010, 02:10 AM
The music industry has largely itself to blame for the mess theyre now in. For years they grossly overcharged for recorded music. Especially in the UK. They refused supermarkets selling them at competitive prices. By time they gave in it was too late. The landscape was rapidly changing.
And copying from Tv is no different to downloading. Same principal; you are infringing on ownership and copyright. Indeed, I could very easily dvd record a video from MTV then convert it to an mp3 file. Or I could just download the mp3 file. Either way I have a free mp3 file of an artists music. Same difference.
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