Quelle surprise Christian B&B owners get abusive email, text, phone calls..

[Crimson Dynamo]

"The Christian B&B owners who wouldn’t give a double bed to a homosexual couple have been deluged with hate mail, including a threat to burn down their home. "

“There must have been 900 emails, and I would say half of them are really abusive and threatening”.


http://www.christian.org.uk/news/christian-bb-owners-besieged-by-abuse/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also interesting to hear the debate. The guy from Attitude magazine is aggressive and thinks he is right and not open to being wrong...

Sadly so do the 450 people who emailed, called and texted. It must be the modern society the guy from Attitude is talking about...:conf:

[Niamh.]

maybe burning down their house is a bit much but really they can't expect to be hateful towards people and not expect to get some hate back.

[Crimson Dynamo]

maybe burning down their house is a bit much but really they can't expect to be hateful towards people and not expect to get some hate back.

They were not hateful, dont be silly. They offered them single rooms, it is not like they shouted at them and told them to go to hell, lol.

trying to justify the abuse is plain wonky

[setanta]

"Suing someone because you don’t like their beliefs is illiberal, undemocratic and has no place in a free society".

Refusing someone because you don't agree with their sexuality is illiberal, undemocratic and has no place in a free society you hypocritical gimp. I'm sorry LT, but that line was absolute waffle of the highest order. You open a B and B and you have to accept and adhere to the laws of the land. Simple.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Suing someone because you don’t like their beliefs is illiberal, undemocratic and has no place in a free society".

Refusing someone because you don't agree with their sexuality is illiberal, undemocratic and has no place in a free society you hypocritical gimp. I'm sorry LT, but that line was absolute waffle of the highest order. You open a B and B and you have to accept and adhere to the laws of the land. Simple.

She did not refuse them she offered them single beds?

[Mrluvaluva]

And they call themselves Christians?

[Niamh.]

She did not refuse them she offered them single beds?

Who the hell does she think she is telling 2 consenting adults they can't share a bed?? GIve me a break! :nono:

[Niamh.]

They were not hateful, dont be silly. They offered them single rooms, it is not like they shouted at them and told them to go to hell, lol.

trying to justify the abuse is plain wonky

That was hateful in mine and many other peoples eyes

[setanta]

She did not refuse them she offered them single beds?

No she didn't. She would have had they not been all booked out so in that situation you just have to bite the bullet and accept it or just say that you f£cked up with the bookings. Total stupidity on their parts. But anyway, they broke the law when they refused them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No she didn't. She would have had they not been all booked out so in that situation you just have to bite the bullet and accept it or just say that you f£cked up with the bookings. Total stupidity on their parts. But anyway, they broke the law when they refused them.

and you believe that a cripling lawsuit is the best way forward here?

every person who breaks a law should be sued regardless of circumstances?

[Niamh.]

and you believe that a cripling lawsuit is the best way forward here?

every person who breaks a law should be sued regardless of circumstances?

I believe that hateful, discriminating crimes such as these should be punished severly so that the person might think twice before doing it again.

[setanta]

and you believe that a cripling lawsuit is the best way forward here?

every person who breaks a law should be sued regardless of circumstances?

They broke the law for feck sake... what circumstances are you talking about?

[Crimson Dynamo]

They broke the law for feck sake... what circumstances are you talking about?

we all break laws every day, mobiles in cars, speeding, age for drinking, drugs..

Could there 2 stupid old men not just have gone elsewhere, its not like there was no where else?

[setanta]

we all break laws every day, mobiles in cars, speeding, age for drinking, drugs..

Could there 2 stupid old men not just have gone elsewhere, its not like there was no where else?

Don't be giving me that LT. Would you just go somewhere else if somebody turned you down because you were holding some rosary beads in your hand as you walked in the door? It doesn't work that way.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Mr Morgan said he and Mr Black, who live together in Brampton, Cambridgeshire, were considering suing not for money but 'for a principle'.

He added: 'She believes that her convictions are based on her Christian views - well all I can say is that it is very unfortunate that her views come into conflict with the law.'"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259646/Gay-couple-turned-away-guest-house-owner-let-share-bed.html#ixzz0j5pIcRCp


So when gay men moan on about marriage law and want it changed as it is against their beliefs that is somehow different?

[Shasown]

we all break laws every day, mobiles in cars, speeding, age for drinking, drugs..

Could there 2 stupid old men not just have gone elsewhere, its not like there was no where else?

And yet she took their money over the internet at the start, So entered a legally binding contract, bet if they had cancelled she would have still kept a portion of it as deposit.

If you run as business you have to abide by the law or suffer the consequences, admitted the abuse they have been receiving is not called for.

[Niamh.]

"Mr Morgan said he and Mr Black, who live together in Brampton, Cambridgeshire, were considering suing not for money but 'for a principle'.

He added: 'She believes that her convictions are based on her Christian views - well all I can say is that it is very unfortunate that her views come into conflict with the law.'"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259646/Gay-couple-turned-away-guest-house-owner-let-share-bed.html#ixzz0j5pIcRCp


So when gay men moan on about marriage law and want it changed as it is against their beliefs that is somehow different?

You know you're really putting yourself acroos as some sort of Bigot LT. Defending those peoples actions and trying to put the blame on those men is so wrong and backward.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You know you're really putting yourself acroos as some sort of Bigot LT. Defending those peoples actions and trying to put the blame on those men is so wrong and backward.

rather than have a go at me beacuse you just happen to disagree with my perspective, and don't forget I have never once said that I support what the couple did (this thread is about the abuse they have received) - perhaps you could tell me how the gay couple can suggest that the law is the law but on the same hand gay people can be outraged about other laws that they dont agree with. why are some laws applicable and some not?

[Niamh.]

rather than have a go at me beacuse you just happen to disagree with my perspective, and don't forget I have never once said that I support what the couple did (this thread is about the abuse they have received) - perhaps you could tell me how the gay couple can suggest that the law is the law but on the same hand gay people can be outraged about other laws that they dont agree with. why are some laws applicable and some not?

All laws are applicable, some laws are out dated and need to be reviewed.

[Shasown]

"Mr Morgan said he and Mr Black, who live together in Brampton, Cambridgeshire, were considering suing not for money but 'for a principle'.

He added: 'She believes that her convictions are based on her Christian views - well all I can say is that it is very unfortunate that her views come into conflict with the law.'"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259646/Gay-couple-turned-away-guest-house-owner-let-share-bed.html#ixzz0j5pIcRCp


So when gay men moan on about marriage law and want it changed as it is against their beliefs that is somehow different?

Got to love it really, Christian views my backside(excuse the pun) where in the New Testament does Jesus the Christ condemn or in any other way actively disapprove of homosexuality?

Isnt it fair to say that the anti homosexual view is from two sources, the Old Testament and Pauline epistles?

[Crimson Dynamo]

All laws are applicable, some laws are out dated and need to be reviewed.

there is a law that states that business owners can turn away customers if they have a good reason to do so (shopkeepers use this a lot for dodgy customers etc). The couple here will use this defence.

picking and choosing laws based on your own personal worldview is not a great look for anyone

[setanta]

there is a law that states that business owners can turn away customers if they have a good reason to do so (shopkeepers use this a lot for dodgy customers etc). The couple here will use this defence.

picking and choosing laws based on your own personal worldview is not a great look for anyone

Seriously LT, what are you talking about? They had no valid reason to turn them away.

[Niamh.]

there is a law that states that business owners can turn away customers if they have a good reason to do so (shopkeepers use this a lot for dodgy customers etc). The couple here will use this defence.

picking and choosing laws based on your own personal worldview is not a great look for anyone

Who is picking and choosing laws LT? There's a difference between breaking a law and not agreeing with a law you know, like for example, I don't agree that I should have to pay road tax when the roads are so sh1t but I still do it anyway because they would take my car other wise.

[Tom4784]

They deserve hate but not to that level, it victimises them and they don't deserve to be seen as the victims. They didn't really have any right to turn them away when the couple had booked the room previously, I do hope they get sued as religion is no excuse for bigotry.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Got to love it really, Christian views my backside(excuse the pun) where in the New Testament does Jesus the Christ condemn or in any other way actively disapprove of homosexuality?

Isnt it not fair to say that the anti homosexual view is from two sources, the Old Testament and Pauline epistles?

They do not state where their views stem from. Dont forget that the biggest crisis Christianity faces today is not secularism but Biblical ignorance from Christians.

I would imagine they could refer to Romans 1: 26-27. The Biblical view is that homosexuality is contrary to what God intended - contrary to nature when God made men and women with physical bodies that have a natural way of interacting with one and other. Paul follows the OT tradition and sees the act as sinful.

Christians the world over agree with "love the person and not the act" and so do most blokes if truth be told.

The couple have misused the Bible in my view.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Seriously LT, what are you talking about? They had no valid reason to turn them away.

They did in their eyes. I am not justifying what they did but only trying to make sure that there is balance and not the usual hysteria.

[setanta]

They did in their eyes. I am not justifying what they did but only trying to make sure that there is balance and not the usual hysteria.

Not in the eyes of the law though, that's the point.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not in the eyes of the law though, that's the point.

No the law does allow "good reason" and that is what they would argue. Whether they are successful is up to the courts.

[Niamh.]

No the law does allow "good reason" and that is what they would argue. Whether they are successful is up to the courts.

They may argue this but they will not win. They should not be allowed to remain open as a B & B if they're views conflict with the law.

[setanta]

No the law does allow "good reason" and that is what they would argue. Whether they are successful is up to the courts.

They had no "good reason". Wow LT.

[Crimson Dynamo]

They had no "good reason". Wow LT.

No, they have misinterpretated what being a Christian entails with regards to running a business. Whilst the Bible sees the homosexual act as a sin there is nothing Biblical about stopping homosexuals staying in your guesthouse.

mostly they have been guilty of niavety and as such there is no need to take with any legal proceedure. This would be necessary if what they did was rife, it is not so to take them to court would be spiteful, vengeful.

[Niamh.]

No, they have misinterpretated what being a Christian entails with regards to running a business. Whilst the Bible sees the homosexual act as a sin there is nothing Biblical about stopping homosexuals staying in your guesthouse.

mostly they have been guilty of niavety and as such there is no need to take with any legal proceedure. This would be necessary if what they did was rife, it is not so to take them to court would be spiteful, vengeful.

What???? Putting their religious beliefs to the side for a minute, they should know, when opening a business what laws they need to adhere to, they should be punished for this behaviour and law breaking and they may not be so quick to do such a discriminatory act in the future.

[setanta]

No, they have misinterpretated what being a Christian entails with regards to running a business. Whilst the Bible sees the homosexual act as a sin there is nothing Biblical about stopping homosexuals staying in your guesthouse.

mostly they have been guilty of niavety and as such there is no need to take with any legal proceedure. This would be necessary if what they did was rife, it is not so to take them to court would be spiteful, vengeful.

No, taking them to court is entirely justified in my eyes. You wouldn't be giving us this spiel if an Islamic owned B and B had turned down somebody based on their values or beliefs.

[Tom4784]

No, taking them to court is entirely justified in my eyes. You wouldn't be giving us this spiel if an Islamic owned B and B had turned down somebody based on their values or beliefs.

This pretty much.

[Shasown]

No, they have misinterpretated what being a Christian entails with regards to running a business. Whilst the Bible sees the homosexual act as a sin there is nothing Biblical about stopping homosexuals staying in your guesthouse.

mostly they have been guilty of niavety and as such there is no need to take with any legal proceedure. This would be necessary if what they did was rife, it is not so to take them to court would be spiteful, vengeful.

Taking them to court could be considered spiteful but then failing to take them to court would send the message to some that it was okay to discriminate against certain groups of people.

The law acts as a deterrent failing to invoke the law to punish then undermines the deterrent effect.

Its simple if you run a business you comply with the laws that are relevant to that business. The owners of the B&B wanted to make money by offering a service, they opened their house as part of that service, they cant then decide which parts of the relevant laws they will and wont comply with.

In refusing to allow the the men to share a bed the owners of the B&B were discriminating against them on the grounds of their sexuality, that is an offence against the Equality Act.

I laughed at this comment "She insisted she was not homophobic and would have offered two single rooms, but the guest house was fully booked". There are none so blind as those that will not see.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, taking them to court is entirely justified in my eyes. You wouldn't be giving us this spiel if an Islamic owned B and B had turned down somebody based on their values or beliefs.

I disagree it would be spiteful and sets no example whatsoever.

I wonder how many b&bs in the UK flout one law or another (probably most), to expect every b&b owner to know every law applicable to them is at best fanciful.

This is an isolated case and as such would serve simple be a waste of legal time and money.

I wonder what the reaction would have been had it been a specifically gay b&B refusing to take Christians (spoiler: a lot less).

[Tom4784]

I disagree it would be spiteful and sets no example whatsoever.

I wonder how many b&bs in the UK flout one law or another (probably most), to expect every b&b owner to know every law applicable to them is at best fanciful.

This is an isolated case and as such would serve simple be a waste of legal time and money.

I wonder what the reaction would have been had it been a specifically gay b&B refusing to take Christians (spoiler: a lot less).

Yeah, you wouldn't be saying it was a waste of time then either.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah, you wouldn't be saying it was a waste of time then either.

tar

brush

no

thanks

[Niamh.]

I disagree it would be spiteful and sets no example whatsoever.
I wonder how many b&bs in the UK flout one law or another (probably most), to expect every b&b owner to know every law applicable to them is at best fanciful.

This is an isolated case and as such would serve simple be a waste of legal time and money.

I wonder what the reaction would have been had it been a specifically gay b&B refusing to take Christians (spoiler: a lot less).

Of course it sets an example! It's saying that you cannot refuse same sex couples a double room in a B & B or a hotel!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Of course it sets an example! It's saying that you cannot refuse same sex couples a double room in a B & B or a hotel!

have you heard of this prior to this case?

[Niamh.]

have you heard of this prior to this case?

What has that got to do with anything LT? A law is a law. I'm not gay but I would imagine that gay people have to put up with prejudices and discrimination like this alot and probably feel very strongly that it should not be swept under the carpet but rather dealt with to help instill in people that it is not ok. This may seem like a small, insignificant occurance to you but then you are not part of the group in question so how would you know what it feels like to be victumised like this.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What has that got to do with anything LT? A law is a law. I'm not gay but I would imagine that gay people have to put up with prejudices and discrimination like this alot and probably feel very strongly that it should not be swept under the carpet but rather dealt with to help instill in people that it is not ok. This may seem like a small, insignificant occurance to you but then you are not part of the group in question so how would you know what it feels like to be victumised like this.


but you just made that up "but I would imagine"

I would imagine that you are wrong

[Niamh.]

but you just made that up "but I would imagine"

I would imagine that you are wrong

Wrong about what?

I used I would imagine because I am not gay and so can only imagine what it would be like to be in a gay persons shoes.

If any gay men/women are reading and want to tell me if I am wrong or right that would be great.

[Shasown]

have you heard of this prior to this case?

Here you go mate from a site you will aprove of

http://www.christian.org.uk/news/gay-men-sue-guesthouse-over-double-rooms-policy/

and maybes one you wont

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/5032750/Homosexual-couple-sue-Christian-hotel-owners-for-refusing-them-a-double-room.html

A slightly different case because the earlier one in Cornwall noted on their website and other publicity that they dont allow unmarried couples.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Here you go mate from a site you will aprove of

http://www.christian.org.uk/news/gay-men-sue-guesthouse-over-double-rooms-policy/

and maybes one you wont

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/5032750/Homosexual-couple-sue-Christian-hotel-owners-for-refusing-them-a-double-room.html

A slightly different case because the earlier one in Cornwall noted on their website and other publicity that they dont allow unmarried couples.

exactly, one other case and how many b&b nights are there in the UK per year?

probably close to 32 million rooms per annum

....

[Crimson Dynamo]

Wrong about what?

I used I would imagine because I am not gay and so can only imagine what it would be like to be in a gay persons shoes.

If any gay men/women are reading and want to tell me if I am wrong or right that would be great.

yes, lets hear of all the b&b's that have refused them based on their sexual proclivity..

[Niamh.]

yes, lets hear of all the b&b's that have refused them based on their sexual proclivity..

This is more than just about B&Bs LT, it is about discrimination in general.

[Shasown]

exactly, one other case and how many b&b nights are there in the UK per year?

probably close to 32 million rooms per annum

....

Yes maybe that goes to show, other people read the law, understood it and applied it to their businesses, whereas these "alleged" Christians decided they were above the law. or that their religion somehow gave them legal immunity.

Didnt JC himself say give to Caesar..... - You have to respect the state and comply with its laws mate even if you dont agree with them.

[Z]

I disagree it would be spiteful and sets no example whatsoever.

I wonder how many b&bs in the UK flout one law or another (probably most), to expect every b&b owner to know every law applicable to them is at best fanciful.

This is an isolated case and as such would serve simple be a waste of legal time and money.

I wonder what the reaction would have been had it been a specifically gay b&B refusing to take Christians (spoiler: a lot less).


To expect every B&B owner to know every law applicable to them is at best fanciful, perhaps, but no one could feign ignorance to breaking the law regarding who's allowed to stay in your B&B and who isn't.

[cupid stunt]

why is it that people these days trip over themselves to be politically correct ? PEOPLE WHO DONT LIKE GAYS N MUSLIMS HAVE A RIGHT TO THERE OPINIONS

[Niamh.]

why is it that people these days trip over themselves to be politically correct ? PEOPLE WHO DONT LIKE GAYS N MUSLIMS HAVE A RIGHT TO THERE OPINIONS

Opinions maybe but they don't have the right to break the law.

[cupid stunt]

just because something is the law dont make it right, or do you want a uk what is like 1984 big brother

[Niamh.]

just because something is the law dont make it right, or do you want a uk what is like 1984 big brother

whether you believe it is right or not is irrelivent, it is still the law. Like I said in a previous post, I don't think it's right that I have to pay road tax on my car when the roads are in such bad condition but If I don't they'll take my car so I do.

[cupid stunt]

when it becomes illegal to speak up against gordon brown and his crew, hope you remember that post THE LAW DOESNT MAKE SOMETHING RIGHT LIKE HOW WEED IS ILLEGAL WHEN ITS A NATURAL PLANT AND THE ****ING EVIL GOVERNMENT BANNED IT

[Niamh.]

when it becomes illegal to speak up against gordon brown and his crew, hope you remember that post THE LAW DOESNT MAKE SOMETHING RIGHT LIKE HOW WEED IS ILLEGAL WHEN ITS A NATURAL PLANT AND THE ****ING EVIL GOVERNMENT BANNED IT

Well, considering I'm Irish, Gordon Brown and his crew doen't effect me and never will!

[Niamh.]

when it becomes illegal to speak up against gordon brown and his crew, hope you remember that post THE LAW DOESNT MAKE SOMETHING RIGHT LIKE HOW WEED IS ILLEGAL WHEN ITS A NATURAL PLANT AND THE ****ING EVIL GOVERNMENT BANNED IT

and the law may not make it right but it makes it...................illegal.

[Niamh.]

The uk will either be muslim in 30 years or like 1984 big brother basically it will be hell and all because people wana be politically correct

I doubt that very much. I mean the gay issue for example, why would that actually bother anyone anyway? I mean I don't give a crap who you sleep with so why should it bother or affect you or anyone else who gay people choose to sleep with?

[Niamh.]

its not about that, its about the fact that BRITISH PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO OPINIONS AND IF THEY DONT WANT GAYS IN THERE HOUSE THEN SO BE IT

That house was a B&B which is a business, if they don't want gays in their house fine but they can't use their house as a B&B then because it's against the law to discriminate like that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Opinions maybe but they don't have the right to break the law.

do you never speed in your car or use your mobile?

[Niamh.]

do you never speed in your car or use your mobile?

Yes, I do and I got caught on my mobile once got a fine and I haven't done it since!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes, I do and I got caught on my mobile once got a fine and I haven't done it since!

I would imagine you break the law regarding speed every week?

[Niamh.]

I would imagine you break the law regarding speed every week?

probably everyday :blush:

[Shasown]

do you never speed in your car or use your mobile?

There is a slight difference between breaking the Road Traffic Act and accepting the punishment meted out and trying to excuse being illegally discriminatory in the course of your business and using bigoted religious views about sexual preference as a defence.

[Niamh.]

There is a slight difference between breaking the Road Traffic Act and accepting the punishment meted out and trying to excuse being illegally discriminatory in the course of your business and using bigoted religious views about sexual preference as a defence.

yes and also, were I caught speeding I would have to pay my fine and admit that yes I broke the law and was in the wrong!

[Shaun]

I just don't think LT likes the gays, personally. Perhaps George turned down an offer of his sausage at Bible Camp.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I just don't think LT likes the gays, personally. Perhaps George turned down an offer of his sausage at Bible Camp.

You are wrong of course and it is a standard (lazy) defence when someone does not share your view.

Sexual preference is an individual decision and should have little bearing on who you are as a person and should not dominate your personality. as such it is not something i would use to decide whether i like someone or not, I have no idea what sexual prefs a lot of my pals like and i dont care.

I am more interested if someone likes football and or certain tv programmes. These are far better guides to what a chap or chappette is like in my book. :xyxwave:

[Niamh.]

You are wrong of course and it is a standard (lazy) defence when someone does not share your view.

Sexual preference is an individual decision and should have little bearing on who you are as a person and should not dominate your personality. as such it is not something i would use to decide whether i like someone or not, I have no idea what sexual prefs a lot of my pals like and i dont care.
I am more interested if someone likes football and or certain tv programmes. These are far better guides to what a chap or chappette is like in my book. :xyxwave:

Whether or not it is actually a decision is debatable LT.

The section that I have put in bold is exactly the reason why it is so out of order to be discriminated against because of who you sleep with.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Whether or not it is actually a decision is debatable LT.

The section that I have put in bold is exactly the reason why it is so out of order to be discriminated against because of who you sleep with.

What about when blokes get discriminated against at nightclubs (ie dont get in because they want more women)

What about fat people not getting jobs

What about attractive girls getting jobs

What about older people not getting tv work

What about ginger children

What about short men not getting dates

What about tall women not getting dates


Humans discriminate all the time, we all do.

[xDramatick]

What about when blokes get discriminated against at nightclubs (ie dont get in because they want more women)

What about fat people not getting jobs

What about attractive girls getting jobs

What about older people not getting tv work

What about ginger children

What about short men not getting dates

What about tall women not getting dates


Humans discriminate all the time, we all do.

this thread isn't about this though.
this thread is about two male adults who are in love, and were refused a holiday because of who they are, something they cannot change.

these B&B owners still disgust me, regardless of how much abuse they're getting. yeah, it's OTT but if you're gonna dish hate out you gotta take it back.

[Niamh.]

What about when blokes get discriminated against at nightclubs (ie dont get in because they want more women)

What about fat people not getting jobs

What about attractive girls getting jobs

What about older people not getting tv work

What about ginger children

What about short men not getting dates

What about tall women not getting dates


Humans discriminate all the time, we all do.

I don't really get the point you are trying to make here LT, I'm sure if someone was told they couldn't stay in a B&B because they were ginger etc. there would be as much if not more out cry about it!

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't really get the point you are trying to make here LT, I'm sure if someone was told they couldn't stay in a B&B because they were ginger etc. there would be as much if not more out cry about it!

no, most people would have laughed

if they had been very fat most people would have agreed



my problemo with the whole story is that it is just about 2 people with unusual and slightly misguided views and as such they do not need their views used as some "general consensus" that needs to be exorcised through the courts.

[Tom4784]

no, most people would have laughed

if they had been very fat most people would have agreed



my problemo with the whole story is that it is just about 2 people with unusual and slightly misguided views and as such they do not need their views used as some "general consensus" that needs to be exorcised through the courts.

just to verify before I comment on anything are you referring to the men who got turned away or the B&B owners?

[Niamh.]

no, most people would have laughed

if they had been very fat most people would have agreed



my problemo with the whole story is that it is just about 2 people with unusual and slightly misguided views and as such they do not need their views used as some "general consensus" that needs to be exorcised through the courts.

I don't know the same kind of people you know then LT because I really don't think most people would have laughed at either fat or ginger people being refused entry to a business because of being Fat or ginger.

And again, you see it as "slightly mis-guided views" I see it as disgusting, out dated and bigoted views.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't know the same kind of people you know then LT because I really don't think most people would have laughed at either fat or ginger people being refused entry to a business because of being Fat or ginger.

And again, you see it as "slightly mis-guided views" I see it as disgusting, out dated and bigoted views.

If you see it as disgusting then I would suggest we leave it at that.

[Niamh.]

If you see it as disgusting then I would suggest we leave it at that.

grand.

[BB_Eye]

What about all the people who just wrote in to complain about their stupid policy which, lets face it, probably made up most of those 900 e-mails.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Welcome to Tolerance Towers. Rule 1: No tolerance

If you run a boarding house in 2010, at some stage you must expect a same-sex couple to check in for the night.

So Susanne Wilkinson was wrong to turn away John Morgan and Michael Black from her B&B in Wokingham because homosexuality offends her devout Christian beliefs.

After all, it's not very Christian telling travellers there's no room at the inn.
Michael Black (left) and John Morgan were turned away from Susanne Wilkinson B&B because allowing a same-sex couple to stay was 'against her convictions'

Michael Black (left) and John Morgan were turned away from Susanne Wilkinson's B&B because allowing a same-sex couple to stay was 'against her convictions'

Perhaps if her advert had emphasised 'run by devout Christian' (Rule one, No Poofters), John and Michael may have taken the hint and booked in somewhere else.

Why stay where you're not welcome? I certainly wouldn't check into a temperance hotel.

But this is where it gets out of hand. The police are now investigating Mrs Wilkinson and she's been deluged with hate mail from homosexual fundamentalists.

Threatening to burn someone's house down isn't very Christian either.

Mrs Wilkinson was in the wrong. She's probably in the wrong business.

But prosecuting someone for holding sincere Christian convictions and making violent threats against her proves yet again that in New Labour's Britain tolerance is a one-way street.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1260689/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Forget-weeks-Remember-past-13-years.html#ixzz0jGyXnZjG

[Wildcat!]

IN my opinion, I dont see the problem in them turning away that couple, because of their convictions and beliefs. If they believe that lifestyle is wrong, they have the right to do so. Call them homophobes if you like, they are just that, but I think they should be allowed to do so. Its getting out of hand now how people arent allowed to teach their children their religious values, especially in their own home. Granted its a business, but its still a guest house. They have to live there, their kids live there.

IF it was a hotel, I would feel differently about it, but a B&B is a completely different thing. I wouldnt want to go in there if I am not welcome in the first place. My problem is, they already accepted the couple, therefore, they should honor the reservation at that point. Sprinkle it with holy water or whatever afterwards. :) But it was too late, after they already booked them, and let them come all the way. Who knows how far they drove. And they dont know if they can find other accommodations.

So if I have those convictions, knowing that being homosexual isnt very rare or illegal, I would make it a point to ask who the guests are, before booking anyone. Like I said, Homophobia might be wrong to some, but its not illegal. same with racism, it might be wrong, but it isnt illegal.

[Crimson Dynamo]

IN my opinion, I dont see the problem in them turning away that couple, because of their convictions and beliefs. If they believe that lifestyle is wrong, they have the right to do so. Call them homophobes if you like, they are just that, but I think they should be allowed to do so. Its getting out of hand now how people arent allowed to teach their children their religious values, especially in their own home. Granted its a business, but its still a guest house. They have to live there, their kids live there.

IF it was a hotel, I would feel differently about it, but a B&B is a completely different thing. I wouldnt want to go in there if I am not welcome in the first place. My problem is, they already accepted the couple, therefore, they should honor the reservation at that point. Sprinkle it with holy water or whatever afterwards. :) But it was too late, after they already booked them, and let them come all the way. Who knows how far they drove. And they dont know if they can find other accommodations.

So if I have those convictions, knowing that being homosexual isnt very rare or illegal, I would make it a point to ask who the guests are, before booking anyone. Like I said, Homophobia might be wrong to some, but its not illegal. same with racism, it might be wrong, but it isnt illegal.

great post

[Niamh.]

IN my opinion, I dont see the problem in them turning away that couple, because of their convictions and beliefs. If they believe that lifestyle is wrong, they have the right to do so. Call them homophobes if you like, they are just that, but I think they should be allowed to do so. Its getting out of hand now how people arent allowed to teach their children their religious values, especially in their own home. Granted its a business, but its still a guest house. They have to live there, their kids live there.

IF it was a hotel, I would feel differently about it, but a B&B is a completely different thing. I wouldnt want to go in there if I am not welcome in the first place. My problem is, they already accepted the couple, therefore, they should honor the reservation at that point. Sprinkle it with holy water or whatever afterwards. :) But it was too late, after they already booked them, and let them come all the way. Who knows how far they drove. And they dont know if they can find other accommodations.

So if I have those convictions, knowing that being homosexual isnt very rare or illegal, I would make it a point to ask who the guests are, before booking anyone. Like I said, Homophobia might be wrong to some, but its not illegal. same with racism, it might be wrong, but it isnt illegal.

It is however illiegal for them to turn them away because of their sexuality which is what they did.

[Wildcat!]

I dont know about this country, but I lived most of my life in the US. DOnt you have a law that says "I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, without giving any reasons"?

I know its a thing in the US for any businesses. If you provide a service, you have the right to refuse anyone you want, and dont have to say why! Is it not like that here?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I dont know about this country, but I lived most of my life in the US. DOnt you have a law that says "I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, without giving any reasons"?

I know its a thing in the US for any businesses. If you provide a service, you have the right to refuse anyone you want, and dont have to say why! Is it not like that here?

yes you can if you have good cause, like pubs in Glasgow do not serve people with football colours on during match days.

[Niamh.]

yes you can if you have good cause, like pubs in Glasgow do not serve people with football colours on during match days.

Yeah but "I don't like who you're sleeping with" isn't good cause, it's discrimination in the eyes of the law. Like someone else pointed out already, If they had half a brain between them the should have said, Oh we're double booked opsy!

[Shasown]

IN my opinion, I dont see the problem in them turning away that couple, because of their convictions and beliefs. If they believe that lifestyle is wrong, they have the right to do so. Call them homophobes if you like, they are just that, but I think they should be allowed to do so. Its getting out of hand now how people arent allowed to teach their children their religious values, especially in their own home. Granted its a business, but its still a guest house. They have to live there, their kids live there.

IF it was a hotel, I would feel differently about it, but a B&B is a completely different thing. I wouldnt want to go in there if I am not welcome in the first place. My problem is, they already accepted the couple, therefore, they should honor the reservation at that point. Sprinkle it with holy water or whatever afterwards. :) But it was too late, after they already booked them, and let them come all the way. Who knows how far they drove. And they dont know if they can find other accommodations.

So if I have those convictions, knowing that being homosexual isnt very rare or illegal, I would make it a point to ask who the guests are, before booking anyone. Like I said, Homophobia might be wrong to some, but its not illegal. same with racism, it might be wrong, but it isnt illegal.

Why have you dragged children into the debate? Why bring in emotive issues?

The guest house owners were running a business, therefore they have to follow laws that are applicable to that business. One of which just happens to state it is illegal for businesses to discriminate on the grounds of sexual preference.

Its okay for them to receive tax relief on all sorts of different items, including the TV, computer equipment, possibly their car, food they buy etc. electricity may have been bought at the commercial as opposed to domestic rates(lot cheaper). In fact they, by turning their home into a business, receive a lot of perks. You would soon hear them whine if the tax man said you arent eligible for rebate of tax on business items on the grounds you arent following the applicable business laws.

Would your attitude be the same if they had turned away a coloured couple on the grounds they didnt allow coloured people into their home? Or a Jewish couple on the grounds that the Jews crucified Christ?

[Wildcat!]

Yeah but "I don't like who you're sleeping with" isn't good cause, it's discrimination in the eyes of the law. Like someone else pointed out already, If they had half a brain between them the should have said, Oh we're double booked opsy!


So youre not allowed to say, "I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"! YOu have to always give a reason. COrrect?

[Niamh.]

So youre not allowed to say, "I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"! YOu have to always give a reason. COrrect?

Well, if you booked and paid for a room and then when you arrived were told, no you can't stay here, wouldn't you feel entitled to know why? I know I would!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well, if you booked and paid for a room and then when you arrived were told, no you can't stay here, wouldn't you feel entitled to know why? I know I would!

It was because you were Irish and may get drunk and start a fight.

[Wildcat!]

Why have you dragged children into the debate? Why bring in emotive issues?

The guest house owners were running a business, therefore they have to follow laws that are applicable to that business. One of which just happens to state it is illegal for businesses to discriminate on the grounds of sexual preference.

Its okay for them to receive tax relief on all sorts of different items, including the TV, computer equipment, possibly their car, food they buy etc. electricity may have been bought at the commercial as opposed to domestic rates(lot cheaper). In fact they, by turning their home into a business, receive a lot of perks. You would soon hear them whine if the tax man said you arent eligible for rebate of tax on business items on the grounds you arent following the applicable business laws.

Would your attitude be the same if they had turned away a coloured couple on the grounds they didnt allow coloured people into their home? Or a Jewish couple on the grounds that the Jews crucified Christ?


Relax max! Its just my opinion! I am questioning the law! And yes my attitude would be the same if it was regarding any of the cases you stated. I still think being their home business, they should be allowed to refuse anyone. Like I said, its my opinion on the matter, Discrimination will only hurt their business anyways, so its their prerogative. They will lose a big portion of possible clients. Too bad for them. BUt i woulnt want to force them to have guest that they dont want. Again, its what |I believe in! Obviously, its not what the law says.

[Niamh.]

It was because you were Irish and may get drunk and start a fight.

Hey, people in glass houses.....Scottish man :wink:

[Wildcat!]

Well, if you booked and paid for a room and then when you arrived were told, no you can't stay here, wouldn't you feel entitled to know why? I know I would!

Thats why I ask, because in the US, you dont have to say why! YOu just give them a note that states the law, and thats it!

Here me out now. What if it was someone you dont like? Someone lets say, who your ex wife cheated on you with, and is now married to her! I am stating an extreme case obviously. BUt youre supposed to not be able to refuse that person service right?

[Niamh.]

Thats why I ask, because in the US, you dont have to say why! YOu just give them a note that states the law, and thats it!

Here me out now. What if it was someone you dont like? Someone lets say, who your ex wife cheated on you with, and is now married to her! I am stating an extreme case obviously. BUt youre supposed to not be able to refuse that person service right?

Well I'm female so I'll change that senario to husband haha, I'd probably stab her in the eye for having the cheek to first steal my husband and then want me to provide her food and shelter haha.

Seriously though, you would think if you were in a situation where you didn't want the person to stay for a reason that may be questionable in the eyes of the law that you'd have the cop on to lie and say you had double booked the room or something!

[Wildcat!]

Yeah, I agree! The law is the law after all! I am only questioning its validity! Obviously if it was me, I would give them some bogus reason, peole do it all the time, to refuse anyone they dont like for one reason or another. They do it when you want to rent an apartment! Even if they think youre not good looking they might tell you the room is already taken, when its not! :)

[Shasown]

Relax max! Its just my opinion! I am questioning the law! And yes my attitude would be the same if it was regarding any of the cases you stated. I still think being their home business, they should be allowed to refuse anyone. Like I said, its my opinion on the matter, Discrimination will only hurt their business anyways, so its their prerogative. They will lose a big portion of possible clients. Too bad for them. BUt i woulnt want to force them to have guest that they dont want. Again, its what |I believe in! Obviously, its not what the law says.

Thing is the owners were stupid, it may be their house and if they had an alternative excuse for such situations then I would say fair dos, however that isnt what happened. By refusing service with the excuse they gave they broke the law.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Thing is the owners were stupid, it may be their house and if they had an alternative excuse for such situations then I would say fair dos, however that isnt what happened. By refusing service with the excuse they gave they broke the law.

They were not stupid they were honest.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/mar/18/mary-glasspool-lesbian-bishop

read the comments at the end of the article between the writer and East coast. quite interesting.

[Shasown]

They were not stupid they were honest.

No they were stupid, not only have they left themselves open to litigation they have also risked their business.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No they were stupid, not only have they left themselves open to litigation they have also risked their business.

Perhaps they value truth above those things.

[Shasown]

Perhaps they value truth above those things.

Thats possible, but its not the ideal mindset in order to run a successful business, is it? Look at the abuse they have received. Hopefully for them, no one will carry out any of the threats or start any form of vendetta against them. But you never know there are some idiots out there who may.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1263445/Chris-Grayling-Tory-backing-ban-gays-revealed-secret-tape.html

[Shasown]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1263445/Chris-Grayling-Tory-backing-ban-gays-revealed-secret-tape.html

Its his own opinion, he is entitled to it, frankly there is a fair and valid point to people being allowed to follow their own beliefs, however for that to happen the law needs to be changed, at the moment the law doesnt differentiate between hotels and B&B's.

I wonder if this hotel has a problem with gays sleeping together?

http://www.brighton-mh-hotel.co.uk/index.asp

[WOMBAI]

Thats possible, but its not the ideal mindset in order to run a successful business, is it? Look at the abuse they have received. Hopefully for them, no one will carry out any of the threats or start any form of vendetta against them. But you never know there are some idiots out there who may.

But wouldn't that be surrendering to intimidation? People can't be afraid to state opinions due to threats from certain groups! These people thrive on fear and intimidation - people have to stick two fingers up at them!

[Shasown]

But wouldn't that be surrendering to intimidation? People can't be afraid to state opinions due to threats from certain groups! These people thrive on fear and intimidation - people have to stick two fingers up at them!

Such is the way of the world, wouldnt it have been better to avoid the intimidation in the first place rather than have to cope with abuse, threats and possible violence.

Dont forget sometimes nutters do follow through with threats.

[BB_Eye]

But wouldn't that be surrendering to intimidation? People can't be afraid to state opinions due to threats from certain groups! These people thrive on fear and intimidation - people have to stick two fingers up at them!

It doesn't matter. Offering their B&B to anyone is the law now. Angry mob or no angry mob. The people writing death threats are obviously idiots, but that doesn't make the B&B owners right.

[WOMBAI]

It doesn't matter. Offering their B&B to anyone is the law now. Angry mob or no angry mob. The people writing death threats are obviously idiots, but that doesn't make the B&B owners right.

I still think they are entitled to their views on such matters - when their business is also their home and their children are on the premisies!

[BB_Eye]

I still think they are entitled to their views on such matters - when their business is also their home and their children are on the premisies!

But the spare room is not their home, it is a room where people pay to stay which falls under "the provision of goods and services". Don't want all sorts of people staying in your house? Don't run a B&B.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"gay folks" are always moaning about laws that are "wrong" until one happens to suit them and then, well, its the law innit?

lol at the gays

[Shasown]

"gay folks" are always moaning about laws that are "wrong" until one happens to suit them and then, well, its the law innit?

lol at the gays

As do Christians, Muslims, agnostics atheists, women, men, criminals, victims, ethnic minorities, ethnic majorities. Its the nature of the human psyche.

[BB_Eye]

"gay folks" are always moaning about laws that are "wrong" until one happens to suit them and then, well, its the law innit?

lol at the gays

Those inverted commas are killing me.

Nobody is moaning about the law, just you.