View Full Version : Steven Nothing Wrong with Steve Winning Because of His Injuries/Service. Why Not?
ElProximo
15-07-2010, 08:44 AM
BB is primarily a 'social status/dynamic' competition. There is no real objective measure for a 'deserving winner',
however,
We always consider how they handle themselves in there, in light of what social skills, social background and social status they came from.
A HM may win for being a transsexual and immigrant who is then 'rewarded' for somehow behaving/socially interacting well in their own context. From what they started with and how they were fit in the House.
Other HMs won for being attractive girls who were then 'dumped' by a scoundrel and therefore 'rewarded' for being the 'girl power' cause of the week.
HMs have won for being a bit simple-minded and then rewarded for how they overcame their disadvantage.
SO... ... Steve has as much right or reason to win because he has entered with a unique social status/situation,
and,
then how he deals with that disability and position throughout BB.
If you disagree then tell me how you would apply the same standard for Steve to any other HM?
Why should I accept that "he ought not win just because of his disability and heroic service".
Why not?
I say its as good a reason as any other and why not?
BBDodge
15-07-2010, 08:53 AM
He ought not to win because he's boring.
soleila
15-07-2010, 08:56 AM
Yeah, he's a dull hm. Winners are usually picked because the are kind and endearing, not boring lazy and borderline pervy. It's not a pity or worshipping contest.
charmingmissc
15-07-2010, 08:57 AM
steve should not win just because he has a disability, regardless of how he got it.
for me it is their personality that matters.
the ones you could be friends and socialize with.
that is why i like josie and ben.
if you were in a room with all the housemates who would you interact with?
billy123
15-07-2010, 08:58 AM
unfortunately the kids wont let him win because he hasnt got a tight ass :sleep:
once they grow up they will see that that is the least of lifes trials.
muchadoaboutnothing
15-07-2010, 09:06 AM
Pete Bennet won not because of his tourettes but because he was very entertaining. Mikey came second (not because of his blindness) because he was also a good housemate and all others who have won, won because of the way they appealed to the then audience. Steve could win on the sympathy vote with the media sprouting him as some sort of hero (as John McCirick did recently on BBLB) and that would be defeating the objective of BB. Yes if he was an entertaining HM and brought something to the show then he deserves to be at least in the top three. But just because he fought for Queen and country and then became disabled as a result should not be enough for him to win. The only good thing I could say about Steve is that he does prove that there is life after war and that it is possible to overcome difficult adversities, from that point of view he is an inspiration to young men coming back from Afghanistan with terrible injuries. But winning BB because of it - absolutely NOT.
Blueisthecolour
15-07-2010, 09:07 AM
I understand the OPs point and agree in some ways...but.
Steve has said that he doesn't believe in using his disabilities as an excuse and wants to be judged the same as anyone else.
So on that basis I don't see him as a winner.
He isn't particularly pleasant, doesn't have a particularly winning personality and until Keeley's arrival had made little contribution to the overall dynamic of the house.
fruit_cake
15-07-2010, 09:14 AM
i dont think steve can win, he's too boring you vote to win at the end.. who's gonna vote for him to win?? :conf:
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 09:17 AM
Yeah, he's a dull hm. Winners are usually picked because the are kind and endearing, not boring lazy and borderline pervy. It's not a pity or worshipping contest.
How you have the nerve to call him lazy is incredible! In case you haven't noticed - he has mobility issues and can't move around as easily and as often as others! It must be a lot more of a strain for him!
As for the pervy bit - that depends on your perspective - personally I believe he was just trying to have a bit of fun - but people misinterpret his actions because of his age and disability!
fruit_cake
15-07-2010, 09:20 AM
As for the pervy bit - that depends on your perspective - personally I believe he was just trying to have a bit of fun - but people misinterpret his actions because of his age and disability!
he doesn't perv over andrew or mario does he!!! he is a perv but i feel sorry for him he's a bloke at the end of the day must be hard for him with no legs and everything
Niamh.
15-07-2010, 09:33 AM
He's dull and pervy.
Steve has as much right to win BB as any other HM...but he certainly doesn't have more of a right because of his disabilities.
ATM he isn't a worthy winner ,nor has he done enough to make it to the final IMO.
His mobility issue does not mean he has to sit on sofa all day.
Doesn't he ply/manage a wheelchair basketball team ??It certainly wasn't a issue when he managed to farther 8 kids or bench press a couple of HM.
Mikey to an extent had mobility issues due to his vision loss but still was an entertaining HM
stonedape
15-07-2010, 09:40 AM
A. Steve is boring
B. Even if he weren't boring, a double amputee one eyed former soldier winning is boring in itself.
How I apply this standard to other HMs: I do not like HMs that are boring across the board, and I do not tend to root for HMs that are obvious wins before you hear them speak. It's like watching a bodybuilder in an arm wrestling competition with 16 average people on the street. Why do you even need to watch? That said, he has been a sloppy gamesmen lately, might actually have a few weeks of late nights/good sleep before final finals. But BB is never so kind.
eye sea
15-07-2010, 09:41 AM
I'm gonna be Devil's Advocate :devil: here and say Steve never served much in the army. He joined at 18 and was blown up at 19. That's not my view, that's an alternative opinion. ;)
Livia
15-07-2010, 09:41 AM
I don't think Steve will win because his personality isn't engaging enough. But I largely agree with the OP's sentiments.
Am I the only one who can guess the ages on this forum by the level of ignorance in the replies?
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 09:44 AM
Steve has as much right to win BB as any other HM...but he certainly doesn't have more of a right because of his disabilities.
ATM he isn't a worthy winner ,nor has he done enough to make it to the final IMO.
His mobility issue does not mean he has to sit on sofa all day.
Doesn't he ply/manage a wheelchair basketball team ??It certainly wasn't a issue when he managed to farther 8 kids or bench press a couple of HM.
Mikey to an extent had mobility issues due to his vision loss but still was an entertaining HM
Mikey's disability wasn't related to physical energy - getting about must be a lot more tiring for Steve than Mikey!
MrGaryy
15-07-2010, 09:44 AM
Because while Sophie, Brian and Nadia all had the aforementioned gimmicks to them, it was not their sole purpose in the house and was ultimately not what they won for. They were each entertaining in their own way and generally decent people.
Where has Steve has been almost totally invisible up until yesterday when he showed himself up to me a grotesque human being. And because Nadia would have been put in that house had she been a woman from birth anyway where as Steve would not be in that house if he had both legs.
Lets face it, he does deserve the money!
Because while Sophie, Brian and Nadia all had the aforementioned gimmicks to them, it was not their sole purpose in the house and was ultimately not what they won for. They were each entertaining in their own way and generally decent people.
Where has Steve has been almost totally invisible up until yesterday when he showed himself up to me a grotesque human being. And because Nadia would have been put in that house had she been a woman from birth anyway where as Steve would not be in that house if he had both legs.
nadia was a pathetic ****, decieving blokes into fondling his tits, when he should have made it clear about having a cock.
MrGaryy
15-07-2010, 09:49 AM
nadia was a pathetic ****, decieving blokes into fondling his tits, when he should have made it clear about having a cock.
First of all, Nadia did not have a penis. And secondly, even if she did it doesn't take away from the fact she was an entertaining housemate aside from the fact she was transgender.
Mikey's disability wasn't related to physical energy - getting about must be a lot more tiring for Steve than Mikey!
Actually WOMBAI I remember Mikey telling HM's that getting around was tiring for him and a few of his HM"s discussing it that evening and agreeing that it would be the case if you had no vision.
So I disagree ,I think Mikey's disability would effect his physical energy.
ElProximo
15-07-2010, 09:56 AM
Steve has said that he doesn't believe in using his disabilities as an excuse and wants to be judged the same as anyone else.
So on that basis I don't see him as a winner.
Sure but to turn that around - someone might vote for Steve BECAUSE he doesn't believing in using his disability as an excuse,
and,
that he insist he is not a 'hero' and he wants to be judged for himself.
I might say that is showing great character and admirable social graces in this BB situation.
That may be one reason we ought to vote for him?
chuff me dizzy
15-07-2010, 09:57 AM
Steve should not win because he has no legs ,the winner should win on merit and merit alone
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 09:58 AM
I'm gonna be Devil's Advocate :devil: here and say Steve never served much in the army. He joined at 18 and was blown up at 19. That's not my view, that's an alternative opinion. ;)
Your point being what exactly! That just makes it worse - he was so young! Carrying out his duties as a soldier - cost him his whole future, including his career, at such a tender age - before he even had chance to experience adult life! He and every other person seriously injured whilst doing a dangerous job that benefits society, be it a soldier, fireman, policeman etc - is owed by society!
fruit_cake
15-07-2010, 09:58 AM
but part of his merit is that he has to function with no legs.. lets see how well Corin would do without legs!!
joeysteele
15-07-2010, 10:00 AM
This is a misleading thread, no one I would safely believe thinks Steve should not win because of the disabilities he has,that is a wrong assumption that anyone thinks that.
The sad thing as to Stev is the more he talks about subjects the more extreme his views and also intolerance,as shown in the tasks he can still do a fair amount in them and he can still talk so there is lots to judge him on as to his being a good,fair or bad housemate.
For me his discussion with Ben as to the UK getting involved in foreign countries,his view that people should only be able to comment on such things if they were an MP or had been in the forces,showed Steve to have some odd and bigoted views,when he said if a child of his ever went to prison,that he wouldn't visit them left me stunned,what a pretentious and uncompromising person. He knows he snores and annoys many housemates with it but he does nothing about it,how very selfish,then he castigates Ben for not as he sees it being a team player,so he nominates Ben week after week for that,rediculous as Ben has done many tasks but okay he can be a bit non conformist and is always upfront about it, so Steve has no respect for honesty in people either.
However the reason people are now against Steve is because as Ben pointed out TO STEVE,since the new girls especially Rachel had come in the house Steve was like dog in heat.It is the combination of those few things,and I could have listed many more, that will likely stop the public wanting Steve to win, not his disabilities. The thing for me is that when he wants a laugh,he expects everyone to want to too, but when he cannot be bothered and the other housemates are having fun, being younger, he moans and groans and tells them to stop,like a grumpy old neighbour who always tries to spoil others fun.That is the reason he is more disliked and his really sick flirting with Keeley and Rachel when he knows his wife and kids could be watching makes me feel really sick indeed,he's a dirty old man and a very bad housemate indeed who gets more boring and irrelevant as the days pass.
Nothing to do with his disabilities,he is just not a nice man at all and thats starting to show more and more.
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 10:01 AM
Actually WOMBAI I remember Mikey telling HM's that getting around was tiring for him and a few of his HM"s discussing it that evening and agreeing that it would be the case if you had no vision.
So I disagree ,I think Mikey's disability would effect his physical energy.
Fair enough - but it seems obvious to me - that the physical energy required for Steve to get about - must be even more tiring for him - by the very nature of his type of injuries and his age!
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 10:05 AM
Steve should not win because he has no legs ,the winner should win on merit and merit alone
That depends what you mean by merit! Personally I don't think the biggest bitch should win, as some find that entertaining, or the best looking - which is clearly why some get voted for! What determines merit - as people find different things entertaining!
Gillian-73
15-07-2010, 10:08 AM
If steve was an entertaining HM i would agree, but he's not! He does nothing to entertain us! He thinks he's the leader of the house, why does he think that? Because hes using his own disability and service for his own ends, ie: to be the leader of the house! He is no winner in my eyes! I vote for the HMs i like who make me laugh and entertain me! Steve fails on all counts!
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 10:10 AM
If steve was an entertaining HM i would agree, but he's not! He does nothing to entertain us! He thinks he's the leader of the house, why does he think that? Because hes using his own disability and service for his own ends, ie: to be the leader of the house! He is no winner in my eyes! I vote for the HMs i like who make me laugh and entertain me! Steve fails on all counts!
Your idea of entertainment is not the same as everyone's though! :hugesmile: He didn't just assume the role of house leader - it was put on him by the others who originally seemed to see him that way! But as the bitching and the self-preservation kick-in, so his position is challenged! He was quite happy to take the role - but I don't think he really cares one way or the other!
If steve was an entertaining HM i would agree, but he's not! He does nothing to entertain us! He thinks he's the leader of the house, why does he think that? Because hes using his own disability and service for his own ends, ie: to be the leader of the house! He is no winner in my eyes! I vote for the HMs i like who make me laugh and entertain me! Steve fails on all counts!
did you really say steve is using his disability for his own ends..jesus aged christ, what a dimwit.
fruit_cake
15-07-2010, 10:12 AM
just getting out of bed is a major task for steve, i can't believe people expect him to be the life and sole of the party!!! i'd like to see them entertain everyone with no legs!!!
Niamh.
15-07-2010, 10:20 AM
This is a misleading thread, no one I would safely believe thinks Steve should not win because of the disabilities he has,that is a wrong assumption that anyone thinks that.
The sad thing as to Stev is the more he talks about subjects the more extreme his views and also intolerance,as shown in the tasks he can still do a fair amount in them and he can still talk so there is lots to judge him on as to his being a good,fair or bad housemate.
For me his discussion with Ben as to the UK getting involved in foreign countries,his view that people should only be able to comment on such things if they were an MP or had been in the forces,showed Steve to have some odd and bigoted views,when he said if a child of his ever went to prison,that he wouldn't visit them left me stunned,what a pretentious and uncompromising person. He knows he snores and annoys many housemates with it but he does nothing about it,how very selfish,then he castigates Ben for not as he sees it being a team player,so he nominates Ben week after week for that,rediculous as Ben has done many tasks but okay he can be a bit non conformist and is always upfront about it, so Steve has no respect for honesty in people either.
However the reason people are now against Steve is because as Ben pointed out TO STEVE,since the new girls especially Rachel had come in the house Steve was like dog in heat.It is the combination of those few things,and I could have listed many more, that will likely stop the public wanting Steve to win, not his disabilities. The thing for me is that when he wants a laugh,he expects everyone to want to too, but when he cannot be bothered and the other housemates are having fun, being younger, he moans and groans and tells them to stop,like a grumpy old neighbour who always tries to spoil others fun.That is the reason he is more disliked and his really sick flirting with Keeley and Rachel when he knows his wife and kids could be watching makes me feel really sick indeed,he's a dirty old man and a very bad housemate indeed who gets more boring and irrelevant as the days pass.
Nothing to do with his disabilities,he is just not a nice man at all and thats starting to show more and more.
Great post.
ElProximo
15-07-2010, 10:43 AM
..when he said if a child of his ever went to prison,that he wouldn't visit them left me stunned,what a pretentious and uncompromising person.
This has been a common view held by parents who love their children enough to discipline them (as in teach lessons, guide).
This used to be understood as a GOOD POSITION and the sign of a good parenting.
This was (and still is by some) considered an admirable and noble and 'righteous' thing to do.
The idea here is that he is informing his children that IF they are in the wrong, get arrested then they will have to pay the consequences in full.
Its sometimes called 'tough love'.
Not only did parents NOT visit (and forget helping) their children in jail,
but,
even inmates considered it 'morally wrong' to allow their parents to visit as they were ashamed to put the parents in that position and just have them be seen in prison for what they (the child) had done.
To really give you the idea here - when my Dad was arrested (as a younger lad) my Grandfather got a call from the police.
"We have your boy here.. caught doing some crimes.. what would you like us to do with him?"
My Grandfather sternly instructed them to hold him accountable to the MAXIMUM the law would allow and to lock him up for as long as they could.
To this day my father is still thankful for that 'tough love' and respected his father for it.
So that from Steve is one of the reasons I would consider voting for him to win BB11.
Niamh.
15-07-2010, 10:44 AM
Steve is not an entertaining HM, therefore he has no business winning the show.
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 11:18 AM
This is a misleading thread, no one I would safely believe thinks Steve should not win because of the disabilities he has,that is a wrong assumption that anyone thinks that.
The sad thing as to Stev is the more he talks about subjects the more extreme his views and also intolerance,as shown in the tasks he can still do a fair amount in them and he can still talk so there is lots to judge him on as to his being a good,fair or bad housemate.
For me his discussion with Ben as to the UK getting involved in foreign countries,his view that people should only be able to comment on such things if they were an MP or had been in the forces,showed Steve to have some odd and bigoted views,when he said if a child of his ever went to prison,that he wouldn't visit them left me stunned,what a pretentious and uncompromising person. He knows he snores and annoys many housemates with it but he does nothing about it,how very selfish,then he castigates Ben for not as he sees it being a team player,so he nominates Ben week after week for that,rediculous as Ben has done many tasks but okay he can be a bit non conformist and is always upfront about it, so Steve has no respect for honesty in people either.
However the reason people are now against Steve is because as Ben pointed out TO STEVE,since the new girls especially Rachel had come in the house Steve was like dog in heat.It is the combination of those few things,and I could have listed many more, that will likely stop the public wanting Steve to win, not his disabilities. The thing for me is that when he wants a laugh,he expects everyone to want to too, but when he cannot be bothered and the other housemates are having fun, being younger, he moans and groans and tells them to stop,like a grumpy old neighbour who always tries to spoil others fun.That is the reason he is more disliked and his really sick flirting with Keeley and Rachel when he knows his wife and kids could be watching makes me feel really sick indeed,he's a dirty old man and a very bad housemate indeed who gets more boring and irrelevant as the days pass.
Nothing to do with his disabilities,he is just not a nice man at all and thats starting to show more and more.
Is Steve not allowed strong opinions - especially on something as personal as the army and it's presence in other countries! We are all entitled to opinions on that, but I guess that Steve felt that some members of the general public often don't know enough about what is going on to have an informed opinion! It is clearly an emotive subject for him - and he over-reacted - we all do it - doesn't mean he has extreme, intolerant views. Maybe you over-react in your description of him based on that incident! No-one is saying he is perfect, but it seems some expect him to be!
As for the snoring - what do you propose he does about that - it is not a conscious action that he can control! And most of what you say about him moaning could be applied to any of the other hms at various times - they all love a good moan!
I think that your description of him as a 'dirty old man' speaks volumes about your view of his age in relation to his actions. He is 41 that is not old - he is not dead below the waste - and she is not exactly young at 31! He was flattered by her attentions and was trying to join in more and have a bit of fun! Whether he got a bit carried away and OTT in that, perhaps not realising how a predominantly young audience might perceive that, is down to personal opinion - but to call him a perv is pretty OTT in my opinion!
What is questionable - is Keeley's motives. She has the advantage of knowing how the hms are perceived outside and did seem to make a beeline for Steve - one has to ask why! She is not a silly young girl, but a mature business woman! She was constantly paying him attention and cuddling up to him - the fact that you don't once question her motives - makes me question your judgement!
LKSmith2
15-07-2010, 11:27 AM
did you really say steve is using his disability for his own ends..jesus aged christ, what a dimwit.
Of course. He is so lucky having no legs if it means he gets to the last week of a reality tv show...
Of course. He is so lucky having no legs if it means he gets to the last week of a reality tv show...
that is NOT him using them though, thats the voters.
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 11:33 AM
Of course. He is so lucky having no legs if it means he gets to the last week of a reality tv show...
I wouldn't be surprised if you actually believe that - some people, it seems, are really so obsessed by reality tv shows - they have a warped perspective of their importance and cannot separate them from real life! Ahhh! :sad:
LKSmith2
15-07-2010, 11:34 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if you actually believe that - some people, it seems, are really so obsessed by reality tv shows - they have a warped perspective of their importance and cannot separate them from real life! Ahhh! :sad:
Don't worry it was sarcasm (Obviously didn't come across very well) I actually agree with what you have been saying in this thread :)
This has been a common view held by parents who love their children enough to discipline them (as in teach lessons, guide).
This used to be understood as a GOOD POSITION and the sign of a good parenting.
This was (and still is by some) considered an admirable and noble and 'righteous' thing to do.
The idea here is that he is informing his children that IF they are in the wrong, get arrested then they will have to pay the consequences in full.
Its sometimes called 'tough love'.
Not only did parents NOT visit (and forget helping) their children in jail,
but,
even inmates considered it 'morally wrong' to allow their parents to visit as they were ashamed to put the parents in that position and just have them be seen in prison for what they (the child) had done.
To really give you the idea here - when my Dad was arrested (as a younger lad) my Grandfather got a call from the police.
"We have your boy here.. caught doing some crimes.. what would you like us to do with him?"
My Grandfather sternly instructed them to hold him accountable to the MAXIMUM the law would allow and to lock him up for as long as they could.
To this day my father is still thankful for that 'tough love' and respected his father for it.
So that from Steve is one of the reasons I would consider voting for him to win BB11.
I much rather the whole compassion and forgiveness thing myself, rather than hackneyed ye olde parenting tactics that never brought on much positives. But whatever floats your boat.
Don't worry it was sarcasm (Obviously didn't come across very well) I actually agree with what you have been saying in this thread :)
:joker::sleep:
Is Steve not allowed strong opinions - especially on something as personal as the army and it's presence in other countries! We are all entitled to opinions on that, but I guess that Steve felt that some members of the general public often don't know enough about what is going on to have an informed opinion! It is clearly an emotive subject for him - and he over-reacted - we all do it - doesn't mean he has extreme, intolerant views. Maybe you over-react in your description of him based on that incident! No-one is saying he is perfect, but it seems some expect him to be!
As for the snoring - what do you propose he does about that - it is not a conscious action that he can control! And most of what you say about him moaning could be applied to any of the other hms at various times - they all love a good moan!
I think that your description of him as a 'dirty old man' speaks volumes about your view of his age in relation to his actions. He is 41 that is not old - he is not dead below the waste - and she is not exactly young at 31! He was flattered by her attentions and was trying to join in more and have a bit of fun! Whether he got a bit carried away and OTT in that, perhaps not realising how a predominantly young audience might perceive that, is down to personal opinion - but to call him a perv is pretty OTT in my opinion!
What is questionable - is Keeley's motives. She has the advantage of knowing how the hms are perceived outside and did seem to make a beeline for Steve - one has to ask why! She is not a silly young girl, but a mature business woman! She was constantly paying him attention and cuddling up to him - the fact that you don't once question her motives - makes me question your judgement!
Talk about a subconcious submission to his disability. Marcus was the biggest perv on the planet last year, right?
Take away a leg and an eye and things are different.
Niamh.
15-07-2010, 11:39 AM
Talk about a subconcious submission to his disability. Marcus was the biggest perv on the planet last year, right?
Take away a leg and an eye and things are different.
:laugh2:
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 11:44 AM
Talk about a subconcious submission to his disability. Marcus was the biggest perv on the planet last year, right?
Take away a leg and an eye and things are different.
Not at all - I think the situations are very different! I believe I pointed out the differences, in my opinion, in a previous thread!
Two legs actually! :hugesmile:
Not at all - I think the situations are very different! I believe I pointed out the differences, in my opinion, in a previous thread!
Two legs actually! :hugesmile:
I must have missed that tour de force. Most of your posts tend to look the same.
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 11:48 AM
I must have missed that tour de force. Most of your posts tend to look the same.
Ironic - always thought the same of yours! :hugesmile:
InOne
15-07-2010, 11:49 AM
Steve is messing up his chances day by day anyway. Go Keeley!
ElProximo
15-07-2010, 12:19 PM
I much rather the whole compassion and forgiveness thing myself, rather than hackneyed ye olde parenting tactics that never brought on much positives. But whatever floats your boat.
Steve might argue that the real compassion is in letting the child pay the harshest penalty.
The child might say that it is out of compassion for their parents they do NOT want them visiting them.
Forgiveness. If the child is remorseful then you certainly can forgive them for whatever the crime but that is not the same thing as having them pay the debts and consequences.
Two different things.
As for your hackneyed new parenting ideas I don't think there is any debate on this anymore when you only need to walk around the UK as see what totally disrespectful criminally-minded little pukes run rampant vandalizing and spitting,
and,
Yes, the mentality of these scallies and chavs is straight out of being deprived of any sort of discipline or understanding there are real consequences.
I suggest that your tactics are uncaring, unloving and show no compassion for victims.
Steve is more advanced than you on this one.
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 12:28 PM
I much rather the whole compassion and forgiveness thing myself, rather than hackneyed ye olde parenting tactics that never brought on much positives. But whatever floats your boat.
I don't see much compassion and forgiveness on this site - just extremely harsh judgements!
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Steve might argue that the real compassion is in letting the child pay the harshest penalty.
The child might say that it is out of compassion for their parents they do NOT want them visiting them.
Forgiveness. If the child is remorseful then you certainly can forgive them for whatever the crime but that is not the same thing as having them pay the debts and consequences.
Two different things.
As for your hackneyed new parenting ideas I don't think there is any debate on this anymore when you only need to walk around the UK as see what totally disrespectful criminally-minded little pukes run rampant vandalizing and spitting,
and,
Yes, the mentality of these scallies and chavs is straight out of being deprived of any sort of discipline or understanding there are real consequences.
I suggest that your tactics are uncaring, unloving and show no compassion for victims.
Steve is more advanced than you on this one.
Ha, ha - you do make some very valid points though! The results of that kind of parenting can be seen on many a thread on this forum!
BB_Eye
15-07-2010, 12:36 PM
Is Steve not allowed strong opinions - especially on something as personal as the army and it's presence in other countries! We are all entitled to opinions on that, but I guess that Steve felt that some members of the general public often don't know enough about what is going on to have an informed opinion! It is clearly an emotive subject for him - and he over-reacted - we all do it - doesn't mean he has extreme, intolerant views. Maybe you over-react in your description of him based on that incident! No-one is saying he is perfect, but it seems some expect him to be!
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's a pity that Steve doesn't feel the same way.
As for the snoring - what do you propose he does about that - it is not a conscious action that he can control! And most of what you say about him moaning could be applied to any of the other hms at various times - they all love a good moan!
This one is up to the housemates. It doesn't bother me, but I don't blame them for wanting him out for that reason.
I think that your description of him as a 'dirty old man' speaks volumes about your view of his age in relation to his actions. He is 41 that is not old - he is not dead below the waste - and she is not exactly young at 31! He was flattered by her attentions and was trying to join in more and have a bit of fun! Whether he got a bit carried away and OTT in that, perhaps not realising how a predominantly young audience might perceive that, is down to personal opinion - but to call him a perv is pretty OTT in my opinion!
Most people's misgivings about Steve's lechery have less to do with the age difference and more to do with the fact that he is married with eight children.
What is questionable - is Keeley's motives. She has the advantage of knowing how the hms are perceived outside and did seem to make a beeline for Steve - one has to ask why! She is not a silly young girl, but a mature business woman! She was constantly paying him attention and cuddling up to him - the fact that you don't once question her motives - makes me question your judgement!
That's not particularly relevent. The fact that she is playing along with it will be no comfort to Steve's wife.
Shasown
15-07-2010, 12:37 PM
Steve might argue that the real compassion is in letting the child pay the harshest penalty.
The child might say that it is out of compassion for their parents they do NOT want them visiting them.
Forgiveness. If the child is remorseful then you certainly can forgive them for whatever the crime but that is not the same thing as having them pay the debts and consequences.
Two different things.
As for your hackneyed new parenting ideas I don't think there is any debate on this anymore when you only need to walk around the UK as see what totally disrespectful criminally-minded little pukes run rampant vandalizing and spitting,
and,
Yes, the mentality of these scallies and chavs is straight out of being deprived of any sort of discipline or understanding there are real consequences.
I suggest that your tactics are uncaring, unloving and show no compassion for victims.
Steve is more advanced than you on this one.
Unfortunately parenting decisions are in many cases taken away from the parent as soon as a child enters the criminal justice system, parents have to conform to the supposed idealised parent model as dictated by the local social services.
Niamh.
15-07-2010, 12:39 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's a pity that Steve doesn't feel the same way.
This one is up to the housemates. It doesn't bother me, but I don't blame them for wanting him out for that reason.
Most people's misgivings about Steve's lechery have less to do with the age difference and more to do with the fact that he is married with eight children.
That's not particularly relevent. The fact that she is playing along with it will be no comfort to Steve's wife.
excatly, I'm sure there are very honorable ex army members, I just don't think Steve is one of them, he's a boring and a bit of a sleaze
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 12:41 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's a pity that Steve doesn't feel the same way.
This one is up to the housemates. It doesn't bother me, but I don't blame them for wanting him out for that reason.
Most people's misgivings about Steve's lechery have less to do with the age difference and more to do with the fact that he is married with eight children.
That's not particularly relevent. The fact that she is playing along with it will be no comfort to Steve's wife.
Steve's wife knows him better than anyone - and I suspect she is having a good giggle about his antics - probably likely to be more pissed off at all the nasty pervy comments being made about him!
Niamh.
15-07-2010, 12:45 PM
Steve's wife knows him better than anyone - and I suspect she is having a good giggle about his antics - probably likely to be more pissed off at all the nasty pervy comments being made about him!
Do you really think so? I wouldn't be giggling if I was his wife. She is his 3rd wife as well so I wouldn't be so sure that you're right!
BB_Eye
15-07-2010, 12:46 PM
Steve's wife knows him better than anyone - and I suspect she is having a good giggle about his antics - probably likely to be more pissed off at all the nasty pervy comments being made about him!
So you're shifting any notion of 'perviness' onto his critics? Very mature.
While I am sure Steve's wife loves him, she is not so blinkered that this will be perceived as a bit of harmless fun.
Some people need to live a little, this sort of thing goes on every day in pubs and house party's when people are out with friends as couples.
You never played the pick up the cereal box game!!!
Do you really think so? I wouldn't be giggling if I was his wife. She is his 3rd wife as well so I wouldn't be so sure that you're right!
Agreed
If I was his wife I'd be mortified and embarrassed for him, there's no fool like an old fool
WOMBAI
15-07-2010, 12:54 PM
Do you really think so? I wouldn't be giggling if I was his wife. She is his 3rd wife as well so I wouldn't be so sure that you're right!
Of course I may be wrong - but they have been married quite a while and probably way past the jealousy stage! If I am right in my belief that he is just larking about and really doesn't mean any harm, his wife will already know that and not be jealous or offended! If I'm wrong about that - then yes, she is likely to be pretty annoyed! I just can't help believing, from what I have seen, that people are way over-reacting!
Niamh.
15-07-2010, 12:55 PM
If I was his wife I'd be mortified and embarrassed for him, there's no fool like an old fool
It all boils down to what we'd find acceptable behavior from our own partners tbh I personally would be disgusted if my husband behaved like that
Niamh.
15-07-2010, 12:57 PM
Of course I may be wrong - but they have been married quite a while and probably way past the jealousy stage! If I am right in my belief that he is just larking about and really doesn't mean any harm, his wife will already know that and not be jealous or offended! If I'm wrong about that - then yes, she is likely to be pretty annoyed! I just can't help believing, from what I have seen, that people are way over-reacting!
It's not so much that i think she'd be jealous, if it were me I'd feel disrespected and embarrassed. But like I said I'm basing my opinions on what I would feel myself, maybe she would feel differently
joeysteele
15-07-2010, 01:08 PM
Rachel is not 31 and he has bben leering after her too,elproximo,all I can say to you as to your response as to Steves attitude to a child of his going to prison and not visiting them is, that I am fortunate never to have been in truble with the law but had I ever been I would be massively grateful I have the Parents I have rather than either you or Steve.
It all boils down to what we'd find acceptable behavior from our own partners tbh I personally would be disgusted if my husband behaved like that
Agree Niamh.
I have been married awhile also and if he behaved like that with another woman then he get better busy trying to win because he would need the mun to find himself somewhere else to live.But that's just me .their relationship may be different.
I don't have a problem with harmless flirting .But for me this is different ,I mean Dave cuddles the females & males . IMO Steve seems to be spending most of his time cuddling the one person..Keeley.Banter my arse!
Yes I agree their is a pair of them in it ,but she's a single girl..no partner or kids to worry about at home.Steve on the other hand does.
ElProximo
15-07-2010, 01:28 PM
Rachel is not 31 and he has bben leering after her too,elproximo,all I can say to you as to your response as to Steves attitude to a child of his going to prison and not visiting them is, that I am fortunate never to have been in truble with the law but had I ever been I would be massively grateful I have the Parents I have rather than either you or Steve.
I disagree with your prediction. In my experience (actually my fathers) it was the best thing his parents ever did,
and,
he is thankful for it,
and,
he has huge respect for his father for the 'tough love'.
At that time.. no, you would NOT appreciate it because you would just think of yourself and what you wanted to feel good,
but,
later you would remember learning a severe lesson and be grateful you did not have to see your parents ashamed, queuing up in a prison for visiting, being searched etc,
but anyways,
more importantly - you would later be grateful when you realized it made you less interested in committing more crimes and set a strict limit where consequences were paid.
For some reason some people here are interpreting Steves proposal to mean "If my child was wrongfully in prison".
I suggest Steve's hypothetical scenario was presuming the child DID deserve to be there.
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