Burka to be banned in UK

[Abhorsen]

The Burka is to be banned in the UK. And why not?

[InOne]

I doubt it will be. We're too PC.

[Shasown]

The Burka is to be banned in the UK. And why not?

Anything like a link or some other proof to back up this ludicrous claim?

[30stone]

It be good but i dont think it will happen.

[Abhorsen]

Anything like a link or some other proof to back up this ludicrous claim?

You should get ready to post your apology for your post above.

Go Google Philip Hollobone, Conservative MP. Then come back and post your apology.

[Abhorsen]

It be good but i dont think it will happen.

They didn't think it would happen in France etc. but it has.

[Simone.]

I don't think it should be though to be honest.

[InOne]

I don't think it should be though to be honest.

Why not?

[Abhorsen]

I don't think it should be though to be honest.

Why not?

If you go to certain muslim countries, if you are a woman, you would be expected by law to cover your head, shoulders legs etc. BY LAW, because that is their culture - regardless of YOUR religious or cultural beliefs. Therefore, our laws, in Britain, should reflect our cultural values. A typical woman in Britain does NOT wear a Burka.

[Tom4784]

I couldn't care either way really.

[Abhorsen]

I couldn't care either way really.

Then why post?

[MissKittyFantastico]

Why not?

If you go to certain muslim countries, if you are a woman, you would be expected by law to cover your head, shoulders legs etc. BY LAW, because that is their culture - regardless of YOUR religious or cultural beliefs. Therefore, our laws, in Britain, should reflect our cultural values. A typical woman in Britain does NOT wear a Burka.

I agree with this 100%.

[Tom4784]

Then why post?

Because it's my opinion that I don't care and I'm allowed to share my apathy on the matter.

Although the point about muslim countries and the UK has a big flaw, By large we're a non denominational democracy so we're allowed to wear what we want as it's our right as residents of the UK while in strict Muslim countries that right might not exist so the comparision doesn't really work as our government types are different.

[InOne]

Because it's my opinion that I don't care and I'm allowed to share my apathy on the matter.

Although the point about muslim countries and the UK has a big flaw, By large we're a non denominational democracy so we're allowed to wear what we want as it's our right as residents of the UK while in strict Muslim countries that right might not exist so the comparision doesn't really work as our government types are different.

What about just not doing out of respect for the country they are in? What you said basically shows how backwards the Middle East is in some places.

[Patrick]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!

Get in!
This is good I *****ing hate seeing women wearing them in the UK when it isn't our culture.
This is great, this is really really great.

I hope they do bring this law in because people should not be allowed to wear them over here.

Oh thank you lord!

[InOne]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!

Get in!
This is good I *****ing hate seeing women wearing them in the UK when it isn't our culture.
This is great, this is really really great.

I hope they do bring this law in because people should not be allowed to wear them over here.

Oh thank you lord!

No proof just yet lol Can't see it happening myself.

[Tom4784]

What about just not doing out of respect for the country they are in? What you said basically shows how backwards the Middle East is in some places.

The point is for better or worse we have the right to wear what we want and it would be hypocrtical if we didn't offer that right to everyone. I'm not defendng middle eastern attitudes or governments I just said that to highlight the differences.

At the end of the day if someone chooses to wear a Burkha then I couldn't care less, obviously there should be some restrictions similar to hats or hoodies when it comes to security measures but ultimately people can wear what they want to wear for all I care.

[InOne]

The point is for better or worse we have the right to wear what we want and it would be hypocrtical if we didn't offer that right to everyone. I'm not defendng middle eastern attitudes or governments I just said that to highlight the differences.

At the end of the day if someone chooses to wear a Burkha then I couldn't care less, obviously there should be some restrictions similar to hats or hoodies when it comes to security measures but ultimately people can wear what they want to wear for all I care.

It's just a shame British Muslim Women wear it is a trend kind of then when really it is a symbol of opression. They probably don't even know what goes in those kind of countaries. I'm sure if they did they wouldn't be wearing it, unless they're forced, of course...

[Tom4784]

It's just a shame British Muslim Women wear it is a trend kind of then when really it is a symbol of opression. They probably don't even know what goes in those kind of countaries. I'm sure if they did they wouldn't be wearing it, unless they're forced, of course...

I don't agree with the message of the Burkha but we can't ban it either without being hypocrites. If someone chooses to wear it then there's little room for debate really.

[InOne]

I don't agree with the message of the Burkha but we can't ban it either without being hypocrites. If someone chooses to wear it then there's little room for debate really.

I'm sure it's not the first time the goverment have been hypocrites, so there is still hope.

[Abhorsen]

Although the point about muslim countries and the UK has a big flaw, By large we're a non denominational democracy so we're allowed to wear what we want as it's our right as residents of the UK while in strict Muslim countries that right might not exist so the comparision doesn't really work as our government types are different.

You might want to check for flaws in your thinking. For a start our head of state is the Queen, she is the head of the Church of England, that make's Britain a Christian nation and not the so called ' non denominational democracy' that you suggest. In fact, people living in Britain are subjects, and by agreeing to such you agree to be Christian or not oppose the ruling Christian authority. It's only because the Queen chooses to allow other faiths in Britain that they are allowed to live here.

What has happened is that Britain has become too lenient and as such our culture is not shown respect by other cultures.

Actually, it is exactly your apathy which typifies the problem.

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.

[Abhorsen]

The point is for better or worse we have the right to wear what we want and it would be hypocrtical if we didn't offer that right to everyone. I'm not defendng middle eastern attitudes or governments I just said that to highlight the differences.

At the end of the day if someone chooses to wear a Burkha then I couldn't care less, obviously there should be some restrictions similar to hats or hoodies when it comes to security measures but ultimately people can wear what they want to wear for all I care.

Hang on a minute, you say "obviously there should be some restrictions", you can't say in one breath there should be freedom for burkas just because you don't care about them but in the next breath you say someone can't wear a hooded top.

And why are you making value judgements about so called 'hoodies' while you assume that anyone wearing a burka must be OK?

Explain how a hooded top is LESS of a security issue than a burka? Remember - anyone could wear a burka if they choose to under the current system.

[Abhorsen]

It's just a shame British Muslim Women wear it is a trend kind of then when really it is a symbol of opression. ...

Also, why are British troops fighting in those countries because of that kind of oppression while it is OK here.

[Stu]

You might want to check for flaws in your thinking. For a start our head of state is the Queen, she is the head of the Church of England, that make's Britain a Christian nation and not the so called ' non denominational democracy' that you suggest. In fact, people living in Britain are subjects, and by agreeing to such you agree to be Christian or not oppose the ruling Christian authority. It's only because the Queen chooses to allow other faiths in Britain that they are allowed to live here.

What has happened is that Britain has become too lenient and as such our culture is not shown respect by other cultures.

Actually, it is exactly your apathy which typifies the problem.

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.
LOL.

It's like I have fallen out of a wormhole and into the Have Your Say section of a Daily Mail article.

Nobody really gives a flying **** about ol' queenie, do they? I'm sure if you want to get anal about it then you actually are 'subjects' but in the minds of the people they certainly don't see themselves as subjects. At least the vast, vast majority don't. Most don't give her a moments thought. A lot of people see her as the figurehead of a dated concept with all the cultural influence of a ****ing cement mixer.

The queen is dead.

Celebrate.

[Abhorsen]

LOL.

It's like I have fallen out of a wormhole and into the Have Your Say section of a Daily Mail article.

Nobody really gives a flying **** about ol' queenie, do they? I'm sure if you want to get anal about it then you actually are 'subjects' but in the minds of the people they certainly don't see themselves as subjects. At least the vast, vast majority don't. Most don't give her a moments thought. A lot of people see her as the figurehead of a dated concept with all the cultural influence of a ****ing cement mixer.

The queen is dead.

Celebrate.

Wow, how eloquent. LOL.

You have obviously just fallen out of bed, after dossing all day and couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread.

'Kicking' back at the *man* while dossing on the dole are you? Or still living off Mum and Dad?

You have taken the quote out of context and made yourself look stupid.

This isn't about the Queen. Grow up.

[brian3]

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.

How do you know that. A 5 minuet interview with a couple of extremist on the news

[BB_Eye]

You might want to check for flaws in your thinking. For a start our head of state is the Queen, she is the head of the Church of England, that make's Britain a Christian nation and not the so called ' non denominational democracy' that you suggest. In fact, people living in Britain are subjects, and by agreeing to such you agree to be Christian or not oppose the ruling Christian authority. It's only because the Queen chooses to allow other faiths in Britain that they are allowed to live here.

What has happened is that Britain has become too lenient and as such our culture is not shown respect by other cultures.

Actually, it is exactly your apathy which typifies the problem.

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.

The Queen doesn't choose anything as she holds no de facto authority over this country and only exists as a ceremonial head of state. We live in a multifaith society and also a democracy where people are permitted to follow any religion, ideology or philosophy they like. Live and let live.

[red]

Why not?

If you go to certain muslim countries, if you are a woman, you would be expected by law to cover your head, shoulders legs etc. BY LAW, because that is their culture - regardless of YOUR religious or cultural beliefs. Therefore, our laws, in Britain, should reflect our cultural values. A typical woman in Britain does NOT wear a Burka.
i have to agree 100% ^even though im originally from the midd-east

[Stu]

Wow, how eloquent. LOL.

You have obviously just fallen out of bed, after dossing all day and couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread.

'Kicking' back at the *man* while dossing on the dole are you? Or still living off Mum and Dad?

You have taken the quote out of context and made yourself look stupid.

This isn't about the Queen. Grow up.
The assumption being that only soap dodging crusties don't like the monarchy?

I read the whole thread, and I know it's not about The Queen. I just decided to comment on that little part anyway because it made me chuckle. You seem to have this huge misunderstanding of how forums work. See ... people generally post opinions without having to pend approval from you to see does it 'fit' in the thread or should they have 'bothered' to post it.

I got a job in HMV. I'm not quite an astrophysicist but if you pop in I can get you a 20% discount on some Michael Ball CD's.

Helmet.

[Jords]

Why not?

If you go to certain muslim countries, if you are a woman, you would be expected by law to cover your head, shoulders legs etc. BY LAW, because that is their culture - regardless of YOUR religious or cultural beliefs. Therefore, our laws, in Britain, should reflect our cultural values. A typical woman in Britain does NOT wear a Burka.

I never knew this, and taking that into consideration, yeah it should be banned.

[Boothy]

Really hope this happens. I can't see the difference really between me going to town in a balaclava and a Muslim woman going in a burka, except the burka is considered religious. Many Muslim women get by by just wearing a headscarf, why can't they all? At the end of the day, they've come to England, they should respect our laws and culture. An English woman wouldn't be allowed to wear a bikini in a Muslim country.

[Shaun]

I'm on the fence with this one - I agree with Dezzy's point that it's almost like taking away a freedom to tackle with a religion's abuse of freedoms.

But then, burkas are so 1985. So to Hell with 'em.

[Stu]

Really hope this happens. I can't see the difference really between me going to town in a balaclava and a Muslim woman going in a burka, except the burka is considered religious. Many Muslim women get by by just wearing a headscarf, why can't they all? At the end of the day, they've come to England, they should respect our laws and culture. An English woman wouldn't be allowed to wear a bikini in a Muslim country.
I believe a balaclava is also considered religious in the Muslim faith. They seem to parade around in them all the time.

[InOne]

http://generalbrock.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ishr-burka1.jpg

[brian3]

I think the principle of them abiding by our laws is very important! It isn't just about people being able to wear what they like - it is also about how women have equality and freedom in this country and the wearing of the burka clearly flies in the face of that! No exceptions for anyone!

But many Muslim women chose of their own free will to wear the burka. Are you not taking away their freedom to decide they want to wear one?

[Stu]

I think the principle of them abiding by our laws is very important! It isn't just about people being able to wear what they like - it is also about how women have equality and freedom in this country and the wearing of the burka clearly flies in the face of that! No exceptions for anyone!
Just not the freedom to choose ones headwear?

I couldn't give a rats ass if the woman wants to wear the burka herself. People are free to be as stupid as they want. What you are proposing is not freedom. It's the illusion of freedom. It's 'you are free to do what I think it's okay for you to do!'.

Let them wear what they want. Anything else is simply straight up hypocrisy. It's that black and white.

[Stu]

Maybe - but Muslim womens' freedoms shouldn't override other principles inherrent to British culture! Many women are offended to see such a symbol of female oppression rubbed in their faces on the streets of Britain! This is not a Muslim country - and Muslims should respect that, like it or not!
Do you live in a burka factory?

[WOMBAI]

Do you live in a burka factory?

You jest - but as a male it is hardly surprising you don't understand or probably care how insulting such a symbol of female oppression can be to British women who have fought hard for equality for many decades!

[Stu]

You jest - but as a male it is hardly surprising you don't understand or probably care how insulting such a symbol of female oppression can be to British women who have fought hard for equality for many decades!
Yes I jest, but hey, at least I drew some reverse sexism from the WOMBAI well. Us men don't give a sugar about women's rights grrrr.

You want to reverse womens rights and restrict a freedom by banning them from choosing to wear certain garments if they want to. You want to take away their right to wear a Burka. I get it. Jeez.

[Stu]

Why don't we just take your argument and go the whole way with it? I take it Islam as a whole is offensive to any sane thinking person, right? And none of us want it 'shoved in our faces', so let's cover Mosque's with cardboard cutouts of Sainsbury's, shall we?

After all, if we don't like something, we have the freedom to tell other people they no longer have the freedom to flaunt it.

~liberty

[WOMBAI]

Yes I jest, but hey, at least I drew some reverse sexism from the WOMBAI well. Us men don't give a sugar about women's rights grrrr.

You want to reverse womens rights and restrict a freedom by banning them from choosing to wear certain garments if they want to. You want to take away their right to wear a Burka. I get it. Jeez.

So - you would be quite happy for them to do so at the expense of the feelings of many British women who would be offended - in other words, Muslim women's sensitivities and freedoms should be given priority to those of many British women who feel uncomfortable with it! As a gay/bi man would you feel the same way about groups of men walking around wearing a known, blatant symbol of homophobia!

[brian3]

You jest - but as a male it is hardly surprising you don't understand or probably care how insulting such a symbol of female oppression can be to British women who have fought hard for equality for many decades!

So female rights is about women having the right to do what they choose. as long is it is want other women want them to choose.

[WOMBAI]

Why don't we just take your argument and go the whole way with it? I take it Islam as a whole is offensive to any sane thinking person, right? And none of us want it 'shoved in our faces', so let's cover Mosque's with cardboard cutouts of Sainsbury's, shall we?

After all, if we don't like something, we have the freedom to tell other people they no longer have the freedom to flaunt it.

~liberty

The day we can go to a Muslim country and have our freedoms respected is the day I will support such freedoms in Britain!

[Stu]

So - you would be quite happy for them to do so at the expense of the feelings of many British women who would be offended - in other words, Muslim women's sensitivities and freedoms should be given priority to those of many British women who feel uncomfortable with it! As a gay/bi man would you feel the same way about groups of men walking around wearing a known, blatant symbol of homophobia!
I wouldn't give a ****. Actually, I would. I would find it silly and would probably verbally shout down the T-Shirt wearing nasty. But I wouldn't try and push a law into government banning him from wearing certain T-Shirts.

Hitler found the Jews offensive. His idea was a little more radical and involved cold showers and a ****load of gas.

No. **** that. You don't get to toy with freedom of expression and speech by saying 'well I find this offensive, so ban it!'.

I find religion in itself offensive. But I'm not knitting together a giant, Vatican sized veil.
The day we can go to a Muslim country and have our freedoms respected is the day I will support such freedoms in Britain!
Oh yeah. You have demonstrated the way your brain works with regards to that logic on many occasions.

'Don't lead by example. Just copy what the other guy does hahaha'.

Two wrongs ...

[brian3]

A Muslim country is a Muslim country. But the UK is a country made up of many different cultures and beliefs. Allowing everyone to express their culture and beliefs is what makes us more free than a country that has an extreme oppressive religious laws.

[WOMBAI]

I wouldn't give a ****. Actually, I would. I would find it silly and would probably verbally shout down the T-Shirt wearing nasty. But I wouldn't try and push a law into government banning him from wearing certain T-Shirts.

Hitler found the Jews offensive. His idea was a little more radical and involved cold showers and a ****load of gas.

No. **** that. You don't get to toy with freedom of expression and speech by saying 'well I find this offensive, so ban it!'.

I find religion in itself offensive. But I'm not knitting together a giant, Vatican sized veil.

Oh yeah. You have demonstrated the way your brain works with regards to that logic on many occasions.

'Don't lead by example. Just copy what the other guy does hahaha'.

Two wrongs ...

Oops I had forgotten how you had risen above any such behaviour! :joker:

[Vicky.]

I believe it should be banned in places that need tight security...

Banks, airports... even shops etc.

Exactly like balaclavas are.

However, I see no reason really for it to be banned all together.

[brian3]

'A Muslim country is a Muslim country' - if that comment doesn't excuse such double standards, I don't know what does! This is Britain - with a predominantly British culture - give some people an inch and they take a mile!

British culture is melting pot of different cultures. Unless your talking about some old imperialist British culture. Which itself was oppressive and sexist.

[Tom4784]

You might want to check for flaws in your thinking. For a start our head of state is the Queen, she is the head of the Church of England, that make's Britain a Christian nation and not the so called ' non denominational democracy' that you suggest. In fact, people living in Britain are subjects, and by agreeing to such you agree to be Christian or not oppose the ruling Christian authority. It's only because the Queen chooses to allow other faiths in Britain that they are allowed to live here.

What has happened is that Britain has become too lenient and as such our culture is not shown respect by other cultures.

Actually, it is exactly your apathy which typifies the problem.

You do also realise that men and women who advocate burkas think that British women are immoral for not wearing them, and as such that is actually an insult to British men and women.

Technically we are a Christian country BUT we're not ruled by a religion say in the same way that some middle eastern countries are, that's what I'm getting at, Our government doesn't consist of only christians there's a plethora of faiths and such. We're non denominational in a way that doesn't really place any religion higher then another despite being traditional country...Do you get what I mean?

As for the part about the Queen, most of her power is typically token nowadays. She couldn't force anyone's beliefs in this day and age realistically.

As for your last point, they can think what they like it does no harm. It's not like Islam's suddenly gonna take over and Shariah law will govern the land if we don't ban Burkhas.

[Tom4784]

Hang on a minute, you say "obviously there should be some restrictions", you can't say in one breath there should be freedom for burkas just because you don't care about them but in the next breath you say someone can't wear a hooded top.

And why are you making value judgements about so called 'hoodies' while you assume that anyone wearing a burka must be OK?

Explain how a hooded top is LESS of a security issue than a burka? Remember - anyone could wear a burka if they choose to under the current system.

Actually I was making a point that hats and Hoodies can't be worn in some places due to security concerns and that Burkhas should be treated the same, It shouldn't be banned but it shouldn't get any special treatment either. People are free to wear hoodies and hats but some places for CCTV reasons and such they disallow it, I'm saying if people want to wear a burkha then fine but it should adhere to the same rules as other clothing as well.

I thought that was very clear.

[Tom4784]

'A Muslim country is a Muslim country' - if that comment doesn't excuse such double standards, I don't know what does! This is Britain - with a predominantly British culture - give some people an inch and they take a mile!

Our culture has ties to many countries and civilisation's cultures though, If you look into the history of things you'd be surprised by how little culture we actually possess that doesn't derive from somewhere else.

[BB_Eye]

I think they should ban the use of the term 'creme anglaise' in English as it is so offensive to "British culture" and so insufferably French.

[Shasown]

You should get ready to post your apology for your post above.

Go Google Philip Hollobone, Conservative MP. Then come back and post your apology.

So one MP shouting for it to be banned means it will be?

Grow the flick up, thats not how democracy nor the UK legislative procedure works. So by all means please do hold your breath waiting for that apology.

Try this the government may allow Hollobone to introduce a Private Members Bill (if you dont know what that is, go google), he may even gain some support for it, however while the majority of MP's and even the public may actually support the idea in private, they wont vote for it.

Here is why it wont come into effect in the UK(its complex Abhorsen so you may have to read it once or twice), It isnt yet law in France(another BS claim on your part) till its gone through the Senate and then been reviewed by their legal watchdog, after that it may be challenged in the European Court of Human Rights.

If we bring a ban on it onto the statute books when Europe says a ban is discriminatory the UK Government will have to hand out compensation. And we will have to because the UK legislature have a habit of completely mucking up even the simplest legislation and agreeing to compo being paid out when there was no requirement, (Pregnant females losing jobs in the Armed Forces, prisoners being paid for slopping out cells springs to mind there).

Whereas the UK tend to listen to Europe, the French think they own Europe and that European rulings dont really apply to them, hence why hauliers and farmers are still waiting for compensation from the French for coming close to 20 years for burning lorries containing sheep.

Whilst it may seem to be a great idea to ban what people can wear in public, we have other laws that allow freedom of expression and religious belief. Although some schools of Islam insist a burkha is not a requirement, some schools do, and the end result is punishing and criminalising all the women who do wear one whether they have been forced to, brainwashed into or believe themselves it is right to wear one.

But the big thing is we expect ourselves to be classed as a multicultural society and then ostracise some members of that society for following what they rightly or wrongly believe is a requirement of their faith.

Now it really is a shame if some feminists and other PC advocates view allowing women to wear a burkha as a slight against a womans rights etc. and their feelings are hurt by this. But can you really see many muslim women who wear them testifying against their husband or family saying they mde them wear it?

[Stu]

Oops I had forgotten how you had risen above any such behaviour! :joker:
Evidently, considering how I am not proposing that we simply go 'tit for tat' on oppresive, freedom restricting Sharia laws. Probably because I was blessed with a political conciousness above that of the level of a seven year old.

Nice arguments.

[Stu]

No, tit for tat is never the answer. That is the political view of a seven year old. The type of social justification a child would exhibit. The type of behaviour that gave us World Wars, non World Wars, and all associated shitty film adaptations.

Tit for tat and we wouldn't be having this convorsation. We would be extinct. Lead by example. An eye for an eye and we are all blind.

Yes, I'm having to quote Gandhi. The ****ing racist.

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2010/Jul/Week3/15666451.jpg

[Shasown]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2010/Jul/Week3/15666451.jpg

That Tory MP has probably the right idea to discourage the wearing of the Burka, just as post offices, shops and banks should refuse service to those wearing them too. No doubt though the PC brigade will jump on it as discrimination.

[Stu]

'Bend over backwards for Muslims'. You make it seem like such a struggle. I just don't care if they wrap themselves in ****ing towels to espouse their ye olde religious views. They should be ordered to take them off in certain situations as Shasown alluded to but apart from that I couldn't care less. It should be their right. Funny that you didn't answer back the other part of my post. You know, tit for tat causing so much misery in human history. You seem intent on never taking responsibility for the actual hard hitting content of my posts, and instead choose to continually focus on what you percieve as threats to your existence/me blowing my own trumpet. So how about it? Tit for tat is a childish view and it never gets us anywhere. It's been proven, darling. It's a childish, politically handicapped, overly simplistic view for armchair pundits to foolishly offer up as a solution.

It's the political equivalent of going 'I know you are but what are my?'.

What's more you already clearly have a giant Muslim sized chip on your shoulder so your views on Muslim things will always be biased methinks. You seem to have a rather rage fuelled passion towards continually pointing out things that may or may not have been brought on by ... aint your son over in what that war?

You want to deny the woman a right to wear one. I get it. Jeez.

[MrGaryy]

What I can't understand is the sheer hypocrisy of certain members in this thread that - putting all technicalities aside and looking at the issue as black and white as it really is - ultimately want to take away a woman's right to wear what she wants, in order to save the feelings of those who fight for women's rights.


okayyyy.

[Stu]

I don't believe Muslim women should have the 'right' to wear the burka in public in Britain! I think the 'right's' of the non-muslim majority take presidence in this country! If you don't agree with that - fine!

If you are going to continue throwing in childish, sexist remarks like calling me darling (and in the same sentence that you call me childish) in an attempt to undermine my opinion and dismiss me as a women, which by the way applies to half the members on this forum, then you can do one - as no doubt you would be the first to complain if I started making homophobic remarks in an attempt to undermine you and your opinions! Cheap trick - and quite frankly you are not worth the effort of responding to!
What right of non Muslim majorities? The right to see Muslim women's chins? The right to deny a right? And still no word on the tit for tat? Too busy trying to save womens rights and preserve freedom, are we? :joker:

You think I am being sexist by calling you darling? Oh for the love of ****. I do think you are being childish but what would I have to gain from being sexist? And why do you instantly take 'darling' to be trying to undermine your status as a woman? GET REAL.

The world isin't out to get everyone with a vagina.

FREEDOM IS BLACK AND WHITE. YOU DO NOT GET TO TOY WITH IT. IT'S NOT THERE TO BE SHAPED INTO WHAT YOU THINK SHOULD BE ALLOWED.

[WOMBAI]

What right of non Muslim majorities? The right to see Muslim women's chins? The right to deny a right? And still no word on the tit for tat? Too busy trying to save womens rights and preserve freedom, are we? :joker:

You think I am being sexist by calling you darling? Oh for the love of ****. I do think you are being childish but what would I have to gain from being sexist? And why do you instantly take 'darling' to be trying to undermine your status as a woman? GET REAL.

The world isin't out to get everyone with a vagina.

No - just you, it seems!

[Stu]

[/B]

No - just you, it seems!
Once again you refuse to answer much of anything in my post and choose to stick your head in the sand. To suggest that using the word 'darling' is akin to being a sexist pig is incredibly low. Why would I be sexist? What have I got to gain from it? Eh?

You are a shining example for all women. Quite the ****ing suffragette.

[WOMBAI]

What right of non Muslim majorities? The right to see Muslim women's chins? The right to deny a right? And still no word on the tit for tat? Too busy trying to save womens rights and preserve freedom, are we? :joker:

You think I am being sexist by calling you darling? Oh for the love of ****. I do think you are being childish but what would I have to gain from being sexist? And why do you instantly take 'darling' to be trying to undermine your status as a woman? GET REAL.

The world isin't out to get everyone with a vagina.

FREEDOM IS BLACK AND WHITE. YOU DO NOT GET TO TOY WITH IT. IT'S NOT THERE TO BE SHAPED INTO WHAT YOU THINK SHOULD BE ALLOWED.

"Freedom is black and white" - as I have said before, go preach that inspired little message to the Muslims - they are the ones most in need of a lecture on freedom!

[Stu]

"Freedom is black and white" - as I have said before, go preach that inspired little message to the Muslims - they are the ones most in need of a lecture on freedom!
Indeed they do need a lecture on freedom. But we are not talking about Muslim laws in the Middle East. We are talking about British laws in jolly old freedom loving Britainia.

[Stu]

Simply back-tracking because I called you up on it! You often resort to sexist name calling in 'debates' with me! It is a recognised sexist remark - deny that all you like - and that is clearly how you are using it! I have pretty much ignored it in the past - but am sick of it now - which is why I drew an end to my post! :xyxwave:
Recognized sexual remark? Maybe it is where you live. I am not sexist. It's amazing that we have once again reached this point. With you again asserting that the person you are speaking with is a sexist. You are so ultra reactionary, insecure, irrational and in over your head it beggars belief. You dive into things without a moment of comprehension with all the neurotic grace of a TV being chucked out a ****ing window.

Seriously, WOMBAI? **** you.

I use it in a patronizing context, I admit that. But not a sexist one. I use the same word in arguments with men on this forum you tit.

[MrGaryy]

Don't worry WOMBAI I feel your pain. One time, Stu called me 'sweetie'... It was just awful D:

[Stu]

Eveyone knows I am the best homophobic, sexist, biggoted, war mongering ultra conservative thing to ever happen to this forum xx.

[MrGaryy]

Don't even get me started on your homophobia. You're worse than Conzors.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii62/thebiggerbrother/Blairs/imjytj.jpg

[Stu]

Conzors beats the crap out of gay men. I think they pay him first, though.

[MrGaryy]

He's probably doing likewise to WOMBAI now, hence her lack of reply. He hates women, you see, like yourself.

[Stu]

S'right Garry. This is one of the many contexts where I am an ardent woman basher.

[Stu]

It must be horrible to still have monsters like me undermining your status as a woman.

[InOne]

What I can't understand is the sheer hypocrisy of certain members in this thread that - putting all technicalities aside and looking at the issue as black and white as it really is - ultimately want to take away a woman's right to wear what she wants, in order to save the feelings of those who fight for women's rights.


okayyyy.

Why any woman would want to wear it is beyond me really. Says nothing about it in the quran.

[WOMBAI]

It must be horrible to still have monsters like me undermining your status as a woman.

Correction - attempting to undermine etc!

[brian3]

Why any woman would want to wear it is beyond me really. Says nothing about it in the quran.

Why anyone likes Jonathan Ross is beyond me. But I dont think Ross fans should be banned from walking the streets

[InOne]

Why anyone likes Jonathan Ross is beyond me. But I dont think Ross fans should be banned from walking the streets

Who said they would be banned from the streets? Would their husbands not let them out without one?

[Stu]

Correction - attempting to undermine etc!
Whatever you say.

Sweetheart.

[MojoNixon]

Ban. Than you.

[brian3]

Who said they would be banned from the streets? Would their husbands not let them out without one?

If that is someones choice. they I have no right to force rules on them.

[InOne]

If that is someones choice. they I have no right to force rules on them.

Well looking at things as black and white as that gets you nowhere really.

[brian3]

Well looking at things as black and white as that gets you nowhere really.

I think someone banning the Burka because they dont like it. Is black and White

[Chels]

Good. They choose to come over here to live, they must follow our rules. If they don't like it then fck off back to where you came from!

[InOne]

I think someone banning the Burka because they dont like it. Is black and White

How so?

[brian3]

Good. They choose to come over here to live, they must follow our rules. If they don't like it then fck off back to where you came from!
Many of them where born here. This is where they came from.

[Chels]

Many of them where born here. This is where they came from.

But still it was our country first and Christianity was the original religion, so if they want to be religious AND live here then they should become a Christian.

[Stu]

Tell me you didn't just say that ...

Are we all sure we are aware that one of the building blocks of British society is it's tolerance towards creed and culture? You know you are NOT following the rules and being very ... not British ... and very, well, Muslim ... by saying they should be forced to change faith?

That's so absurd.

[brian3]

How so?

It simplifies the issue by making out that every woman who has a burka is forced to by her husband.

[MrGaryy]

But still it was our country first and Christianity was the original religion, so if they want to be religious AND live here then they should become a Christian.

-insert generic facepalm gif here-

[InOne]

It simplifies the issue by making out that every woman who has a burka is forced to by her husband.

No it doesn't, it basically is saying it's an innapropriate form of attire that has nothing to do with Islam whatsoever. There are plenty of Islamic rallys over about how unfairly muslims are treated across the world. Yet women wear the symbol of opression here?

[Stu]

-insert generic facepalm gif here-



Yes, that too.

Seriously, the cultural ignorance in this thread is astounding. People defending there own country without knowing a thing about it. Fair enough if you think the Burka should be banned but jeez.

[brian3]

But still it was our country first and Christianity was the original religion, so if they want to be religious AND live here then they should become a Christian.

Do you honestly think that evryone who wants to live here should become a christian?

[dudus]

I don't think it should be though to be honest.

why? so all the ****s and terrorists can blow us up? GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY RITE NOW

[dudus]

I couldn't care either way really.

couldnt care either way
bollocks
i bet youll love it when were all forced to be muslims and whipped every day

[dudus]

British culture is melting pot of different cultures. Unless your talking about some old imperialist British culture. Which itself was oppressive and sexist.
in 50 years we will all be forced to be muslim or be stoned to death, unless we kick them all out this WILL happen in the next 100 years, our kids and grandkids will all be slaves to some smelly joe daki
AND GUESS WHOS FAULT ITS GONNA BE? ALL YOU BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS WHO STRAIN TO BE SO POLITICALLY CORRECT

[Shasown]

in 50 years we will all be forced to be muslim or be stoned to death, unless we kick them all out this WILL happen in the next 100 years, our kids and grandkids will all be slaves to some smelly joe daki
AND GUESS WHOS FAULT ITS GONNA BE? ALL YOU BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS WHO STRAIN TO BE SO POLITICALLY CORRECT

What a well thought out, argument. You should stick in for your school's debating team mate, you would clean up.

[InOne]

in 50 years we will all be forced to be muslim or be stoned to death, unless we kick them all out this WILL happen in the next 100 years, our kids and grandkids will all be slaves to some smelly joe daki
AND GUESS WHOS FAULT ITS GONNA BE? ALL YOU BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS WHO STRAIN TO BE SO POLITICALLY CORRECT

Do you know anyone called cupid stunt?

[Tom4784]

I love it when people say muslims will take over Britain. How exactly? We're a democracy are we not of different faiths, how would muslims take control of a country when they are copletely and utterly outnumbered by people of other beliefs? Do we all suddenly appear in this vision of doom? Melt away perhaps?

Utterly ridiculous, no religion will ever take precedent of this country in this day and age.

The ignorance in this thread is shocking, as well as some of the hypocrisy.

[Tom4784]

It really isn't that outrageous an idea - as Muslims have lots of children, many more than your average Brit - so given time - Muslims could be in the majority - which I wouldn't mind betting - is how some of them are thinking! If more and more Muslims are allowed into the country, having yet more and more children - it really is not that far fetched an idea!

Way to stereotype an entire faith, they aren't all out to get you, you know and what's more it's quite offensive that you suggest they basically breed like rabbits.

Muslims aren't Daleks, They've all got independant thoughts and opinions just like people of any other faith. That's what annoys me, I've personally known muslims who are a lot more tolerant and peaceful then a lot of the people in this thread.

So yeah, not all muslims are apart of some plan to take over the world.

Also with your post you've forgotten about other faiths as well, do you think it's realistic that Muslims can get a political majority over everyone else who isn't Islam really? We've got Christianitiy, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism as well as atheists and agnostics and less popular faiths. Remember these people won't suddenly become infertile they'll have kids too so it's very unrealistic to think that one faith alone could get a political majority when so many other faiths are apart of the uk.

[Vicky.]

But still it was our country first and Christianity was the original religion, so if they want to be religious AND live here then they should become a Christian.

I live here and I am not a christian.

I dont think, in fact Im sure, it isnt up to us to force people into a certain religion, OR tell them what they can and cant wear.

However, as I said before, anything obstructing CCTV views in places that need security...the burka SHOULD be banned there, as hoodies/balaclavas etc are. That is really just common sense, and allowing people to wear one in places like that is highly hypocritical and PC nonsense. If burkas are allowed, stop banning other similar things, and just let everyone run riot. Its only fair.

[Tom4784]

I live here and I am not a christian.

I dont think, in fact Im sure, it isnt up to us to force people into a certain religion, OR tell them what they can and cant wear.

However, as I said before, anything obstructing CCTV views in places that need security...the burka SHOULD be banned there, as hoodies/balaclavas etc are. That is really just common sense, and allowing people to wear one in places like that is highly hypocritical and PC nonsense. If burkas are allowed, stop banning other similar things, and just let everyone run riot. Its only fair.

What's quite funny is that we weren't a christian country to start off with, English ancestors were all Pagans until the Romans came and invaded us so it's amusing considering some of the replies in this thread.

EDIT: Pagans was the word I was looking for.

[InOne]

I live here and I am not a christian.

I dont think, in fact Im sure, it isnt up to us to force people into a certain religion, OR tell them what they can and cant wear.

However, as I said before, anything obstructing CCTV views in places that need security...the burka SHOULD be banned there, as hoodies/balaclavas etc are. That is really just common sense, and allowing people to wear one in places like that is highly hypocritical and PC nonsense. If burkas are allowed, stop banning other similar things, and just let everyone run riot. Its only fair.

I agree with all that. Also the fact it's nothing to do with their religion and is a symbol of opression.

[Vicky.]

I agree with all that. Also the fact it's nothing to do with their religion and is a symbol of opression.
Yeah, some muslim women CHOSE to wear it though, so to take away their right to wear one totally...is just as bad as forcing them to wear one in the first place.

[InOne]

Yeah, some muslim women CHOSE to wear it though, so to take away their right to wear one totally...is just as bad as forcing them to wear one in the first place.

I would really like to ask these women why they chose to wear it. And if they really know what it stands for.

[Vicky.]

I would really like to ask these women why they chose to wear it. And if they really know what it stands for.

I dont know, maybe they like the privacy it gives them or something. I dont think you will ever know why to be honest. Nor should it really matter...they chose to, and thats it.

[InOne]

I dont know, maybe they like the privacy it gives them or something. I dont think you will ever know why to be honest. Nor should it really matter...they chose to, and thats it.

I like to question things you see. Just accepting things gets you nowhere.

[Shaun]

It really isn't that outrageous an idea - as Muslims have lots of children, many more than your average Brit - so given time - Muslims could be in the majority - which I wouldn't mind betting - is how some of them are thinking! If more and more Muslims are allowed into the country, having yet more and more children - it really is not that far fetched an idea!

Just when you think you've read the most ridiculous pile of garbage there is on TiBB...

[Vicky.]

I like to question things you see. Just accepting things gets you nowhere.

Haha I guess so. good luck in your quest for knowledge :p

[InOne]

Haha I guess so. good luck in your quest for knowledge :p

I was trying to look for polls and stuff online, but doesn't come up with much. lol

[Shasown]

You would say that! Please tell me exactly how it is untrue! You are so unbelievably PC about this! Can you give a realistic theory that will disprove mine! After all, having lots of children is how you populate a country! And do Muslims or do they not (on average) have more children than Brits (on average).

The face of Islam we see, the hate filled speeches are done by extremists. most Muslims are moderate peace loving folk pretty much the same as the indigenous British, they dont want to see extremism take hold of this country.

They dont want to see this country turned into the style of country they emigrated from. They emigrated for a reason mainly a better way of life. It isnt a subtle plan by islam to fill the country up with muslims and then take over.

Following your logic the Republic of Ireland and other countries would be slaves of Rome.

[Stu]

You would say that! Please tell me exactly how it is untrue! You are so unbelievably PC about this! Can you give a realistic theory that will disprove mine! After all, having lots of children is how you populate a country! And do Muslims or do they not (on average) have more children than Brits (on average).
Even if they do [links to statistics would not go unwarranted], simple logic would dictate that those children themselves would have to do a whole load of crazy shagging every few years from a very young age to have any chance at all of outnumbering the English. You seem to think just because Muslims have more children, it equates to Muslims eventually taking over. Maths isin't as simple as that and a whole slew of additional factors need to be taken into consideration.

You are also forgetting that with each successive generation, kids become more and more secular. While this is less so in the Muslim tradition, it is still very apparent in the UK and I'm betting that the vast majority of teenagers of Muslim origin out on the streets tonight don't give Allah a moments notice.

Secularisation will take over fundamentalism. I have no doubt about that. But people don't realize this because atheists and plastic religionists [those who say they are ____ but don't really practice or give a rat's arse either way] are a much harder group of people to round up in a cenus. Fundamentalists make for far easier sheep to herd.

As for the place of Burka's in the realm of a national security debate : freedom comes at a price. Have we any hard statistics you wish to offer up to show how the wearing of Burka's has proved to be a major naitonal security threat for Britain in recent years?

Going back to freedom coming at a price, there are litterally and truthfully thousands of facets of modern culture and freedom that kick our species in the ass every day. From motor vehicles to consturction sites. Smoking to weaponary. I would imagine more deaths have been caused in the past ten years in Britain as a result of highly trivial, unfortuitous fashion disasters than as a result of this one dodgy piece of fashion.

In practical terms, it really is that much of a non issue.

You seem to think most Muslims are for restricting freedom. It's akin to saying Catholic Ireland wants tighter controls on condoms and homosexuality. But we went the opposite way and allowed for both because most people betray the faith they barely understand and choose to live in the real world. Like it or not most of us recognize your view on the Muslim faith as being utterly warped by the media and the loud minority of extremists. You are delving into bigot territory.

Now aint that something.

And trust me, nobody has more contemp for the stupidity of Islam, and indeed all of Abraham's other funhouse religions, than I. But the people behind them are very, very diverse and they are not all as nutty as the ones you see the most, and what their scripture esposes.

[Shaun]

You would say that! Please tell me exactly how it is untrue! You are so unbelievably PC about this! Can you give a realistic theory that will disprove mine! After all, having lots of children is how you populate a country! And do Muslims or do they not (on average) have more children than Brits (on average) - it is after all part of their religious beliefs, isn't it!

Well ignoring the fact that muslims and British people aren't mutually exclusive, I'm wondering what on earth the figures to do with childbearing amongst Muslims has to do with your paranoid notion that they're out to get you.

As Stu says above - the rise, very much so in the positions of power, is amongst the atheists and agnostic people rather than theists, let alone other religions.

And as for the fear-mongering spread about the religion: the attitudes towards women held by some extreme/misled segments of Islam is in no way more malicious a view of Islam on the whole, as homophobes are in Christianity. Call me optimistic if you like, but modern attitudes are very much more cosmopolitan and open than they have ever been - and that's not going to be jeopardised by a few women wanting to wear a veil.

[Stu]

I'm glad someone has alluded to the fact that the world we inhabit really is not all that bad. One would think ignorance, racism, intolerance, and homophobia was at an all time high but they are not. We just see it on the news a lot. But we always have and more than likely always will, barring all naive views of a utopia.

For the most part first world societies have it good. Real good. Fundamentalist Christianity's invasion of the American political system is a far greater cause for concern in my mind than what Muslims are doing in any English speaking first world society. American's will destroy themselves in a civil war before Al Quaeda ever levels Manhattan. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I am saying it's the more likely of the two.

Refferences to Noah's Ark in Science class in Backwash Hickdoo, Georgia to me is far less distressing than idiots wearing veils. Let them wear veils. The stupider religion get's to look the better and the faster we can all progress to a new age of ****ing enlightenment. Because quite a lot of us ignored the last one if this forum is a suitable microcosm to go by.

[Shasown]

One other point to take into consideration before banning the burka simply because it offends western feminist sensibilities. It simply adds fire to Extremist views that the Western World hate them and discriminate against them.

A western hating muslim mulla would use it to fire up the disenchanted youths who listen. Saying its another example of the West dictating which parts of Islam they will tolerate and which parts they will legislate on, gradually dismantling Islam itself.

While it may not in itself lead to a fatwah a ban will certainly lead to more muslims flocking to get their fashionable blow up waistcoats and queue up for their pop at the 72 virgins in heaven thing.

[brian3]

You would say that! Please tell me exactly how it is untrue! You are so unbelievably PC about this! Can you give a realistic theory that will disprove mine! After all, having lots of children is how you populate a country! And do Muslims or do they not (on average) have more children than Brits (on average) - it is after all part of their religious beliefs, isn't it!

20 or 30 years ago if you had talked about female oppression and the sexist words people use. You would have been accused of being "unbelievably PC". Now you are the one doing the accusing.

[Shasown]

First of all, lets not put words in people's mouths for emotive effect - I don't believe anyone is out to get me! Of course, the higher rates of child-bearing amongst Muslims could considerably impact on British society at some point in the future! And although I don't disagree that society in general has become more secular and that the possibility that Muslim fundamentalists may lose their grip on future generations of Muslims raised in British society - this is by no means a foregone conclusion - whose to say it could not go the other way! Where would we be then!

Stu's points about freedom coming at a price may also be true - but why should the price we already pay for those freedoms be increased so that Muslim women can wear burkas in public in Britain! What do Muslims bring to the table, what do they give us that makes that increased risk worth taking?

To my recollection, the British public have never actually been asked if they want Britain to become a multi-cultural society - it has been foisted upon us, without any thought to majority feeling! Most Brits, leaving Christianity aside, value the British culture and way of life and don't want to see that change. That is perfectly natural, why shouldn't they have a right to keep that identity! Our culture is as valid as any other!

I think you underestimate the effect a few women (how do you know it will only be a few, particularly if the numbers of Muslims entering our country increase) could potentially have on our society, given the message behind it! Increasing numbers of people demonstrate concerns for the future of our way of life, as we know it, as has been shown by the numbers of people objecting to an open-door policy for imigration into this country - although this policy is now changing with a conservative government in power. But governments change.

And I strongly disagree with Stu that my view of the Muslim faith has been warped by the media and extremists - maybe his views or yours have been warped by other sources of information or experience that the rest of us are not privvy to.

Such comments are patronising and belligerent in nature, particularly when bringing the word bigot into it! Emotive words like that are often just an effective way of making someone feel uncomfortable about expressing their views, which rather invalidates the value of their use - neither of you know me and therefore where my views have come from, just making your usual assumptions!

I take it you dont read party manifestos prior to an election, allowing unrestricted immigration was pointed out to be of concern in the last 3 election manifestos of both the Lib Dems and Conservative Party. Similarly the Labour Party mentioned allowing immigration etc in theirs.

Whilst it is true it was never put to a referendum, when a political party is voted into power, they take it they have received public endorsements for their manifesto and ALL its contents. Sad but true, thats the way our democracy works.

[Stu]

Such comments are patronising and belligerent in nature, particularly when bringing the word bigot into it! Emotive words like that are often just an effective way of making someone feel uncomfortable about expressing their views, which rather invalidates the value of their use - neither of you know me and therefore where my views have come from, just making your usual assumptions!

Just like you did when you called me sexist. Lesson over.

As fortune would have it, it's a common fact that extremist Muslims only represent a very, very small minority of the total populace of the Muslim population in Britain. It's a FACT, you see.

The rest of your post is the same old, deny it as you wish, 'out to get us' farce. Why did you even bother to say that British people have a right to retain their identity. Of course they do. Nobody is taking it from them. To me your view is warped by the media.

You also assert once again that there will be a high price to pay for allowing Burka's in Britain, yet you still have not offered up any hard data on the negative effects and threats to security the Burka has lampooned Britain with in recent years. It really is a lot more trivial than you are making it out to be. That's not me trivializing the issue, more responding to your media warped, paranoid view that this is one small step to a dystopian Sharia wasteland.

Meanwhile the weak as piss argument you offer up to the fact that society is actually becoming more secular is to say 'it's not a foregone conclusion'. Well bravo. You could apply that statement to anything. It's not a foregone conclusion that we will all wake up tomorrow. But we probably will.

This is ludicrous.

[Shaun]

First of all, lets not put words in people's mouths for emotive effect - I don't believe anyone is out to get me! Of course, the higher rates of child-bearing amongst Muslims could considerably impact on British society at some point in the future! And although I don't disagree that society in general has become more secular and that the possibility that Muslim fundamentalists may lose their grip on future generations of Muslims raised in British society - this is by no means a foregone conclusion - whose to say it could not go the other way! Where would we be then!

Well precisely, who IS to say it could go the other way? Not you, for starters. There is and always will be a strong anti-Islam sentiment in the country (take a look at the hysteria caused by all these Wooton Bassett demonstration protests, for example) and whilst most of it is often laden with hatred, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Britain is on a surge of Islamophilia.

Stu's points about freedom coming at a price may also be true - but why should the price we already pay for those freedoms be increased so that Muslim women can wear burkas in public in Britain! What do Muslims bring to the table, what do they give us that makes that increased risk worth taking?

Erm - what price am I exactly paying so a woman can wear a burka?

And in response to the second question - whilst theists are almost always going to be devoid of objective and rational thought (when they'll learn that God doesn't exist, I'll never know :p) - you still haven't answered my point that they're just as dangerous as right-wing Christians, and they seem to be doing rather well for themselves.

To my recollection, the British public have never actually been asked if they want Britain to become a multi-cultural society - it has been foisted upon us, without any thought to majority feeling! Most Brits, leaving Christianity aside, value the British culture and way of life and don't want to see that change. That is perfectly natural, why shouldn't they have a right to keep that identity! Our culture is as valid as any other!

It's not like Britain has been blind to other cultural heritage until recently now, though, is it? Britain's long been seen as a tolerant and opportunist nation welcome to all - and ever since the colonial days we've never had a quintessentially "British" culture anyway: look at the cup of tea. We'd never have that if it wasn't for trade established in India and China.

As Shasown stated above anyway, the majority of British political parties now have an embrace of multiculturalism in their manifestoes.

I think you underestimate the effect a few women (how do you know it will only be a few, particularly if the numbers of Muslims entering our country increase) could potentially have on our society, given the message behind it! Increasing numbers of people demonstrate concerns for the future of our way of life, as we know it, as has been shown by the numbers of people objecting to an open-door policy for imigration into this country - although this policy is now changing with a conservative government in power. But governments change.

I agree that the message behind wearing a burka and the reasons most women do are misguided and part of a stupid religion - but I feel that way towards all religious paraphernalia. If I could have my way, crosses, turbans, Bibles, Korans and Buddha statues would be thrown onto the same mocked pile of crap that currently houses Wiccan symbolism and sun-worshippers.

And I strongly disagree with Stu that my view of the Muslim faith has been warped by the media and extremists - maybe his views or yours have been warped by other sources of information or experience that the rest of us are not privvy to.

Perhaps not yours but the majority of Muslim coverage in mainstream media and current affairs is negative. There's always something going wrong in the Middle East, there's complaints about burkas, there's fictional homophobic characters in the country's biggest soap opera.

Such comments are patronising and belligerent in nature, particularly when bringing the word bigot into it! Emotive words like that are often just an effective way of making someone feel uncomfortable about expressing their views, which rather invalidates the value of their use - neither of you know me and therefore where my views have come from, just making your usual assumptions!

I don't think anyone said bigot...I know I didn't :conf2:

In short there's no denying that religion is the source of a lot of problems - but to pick on one without the others is not going to answer them, merely going to exacerbate them.

[Tom4784]

We've always been a multi cultural country since we became civilised, The Romans left their mark and so did the Anglo Saxons and the Vikings, they all played a part in creating a culture as we see now. The idea we've suddenly became a multi-cultural country is silly, since we've been multi-cultural for a VERY long time.

[Stu]

You are seriously trying to draw comparions between me calling you sexist when you referred to me as darling in an argument and your use of the word bigot! Let's not attempt to insult either mine or anyone's else's intelligence with that drivel! What you allegedly say to your male friends on here is hardly the same as you saying it to a female in that situation - we both know how you meant it, don't even bother trying to claim otherwise!

As for Muslim women wearing burkas - if Muslim men wanted the right to wear some kind of headwear that we all knew symbolised homophobia - you would not be so accommodating, despite what you say! Your denials are equally as weak and ludicrous and you accuse my arguments of being!
Why would I be trying to insult anybody else intelligence? You are the only person on the planet right now who believes I am sexist. It should be enough for you to know that I used 'darling' in a patronizing context. Sure. But not a sexist one.

As for headwear symbolising homophobia ... for you to point out a lame comparison and then make an even lamer one ... oh the irony is killing me.

Headwear that symbolises homophobia.

Christ. Let's get the latest Muslim fashion designers to etch a bloodied, tattered dildo onto a cowboy hat.

**** me sideways.

I find it hard to take you seriously because you seem intent on answering back about 43% of what the other person says and not arguing back/ancknowledging the rest.

[Stu]

Of course I can't be seen to be sexist. Because I'm not. You complete and utter ****ing moron.

And as I already said, darling, I wouldn't care if Muslims flaunted their homophobia. They are free to be as ignorant as they want. If I am free to bugger men up the ass, they are free to voice their displeasure.

See unlike you I have a clear concept of the understanding of universal freedom.

[WOMBAI]

Of course I can't be seen to be sexist. Because I'm not. You complete and utter ****ing moron.

And as I already said, darling, I wouldn't care if Muslims flaunted their homophobia. They are free to be as ignorant as they want. If I am free to bugger men up the ass, they are free to voice their displeasure.

See unlike you I have a clear concept of the understanding of universal freedom.

You say a lot of things - you pompous little pleb! Much of which I have the sense to take with a pinch of salt!

[Stu]

And that's you in a nutshell, WOMBAI. You can say what you want and we all have to believe it, but when it comes to believing me and my political views you seem free to call B.S. whenever you want.

I repeat : I wouldn't care if Muslims flaunted their homophobia. They are free to be as ignorant as they want. If I am free to bugger men up the ass, they are free to voice their displeasure.

Can't handle or fight back that point so you have to instantly assume I am talking B.S.? Your loss, you silly bint. You command as much respect as a teaspoon around here and rightly so.

[dudus]

who gives a ****ing ****

[dudus]

One other point to take into consideration before banning the burka simply because it offends western feminist sensibilities. It simply adds fire to Extremist views that the Western World hate them and discriminate against them.

A western hating muslim mulla would use it to fire up the disenchanted youths who listen. Saying its another example of the West dictating which parts of Islam they will tolerate and which parts they will legislate on, gradually dismantling Islam itself.

While it may not in itself lead to a fatwah a ban will certainly lead to more muslims flocking to get their fashionable blow up waistcoats and queue up for their pop at the 72 virgins in heaven thing.

so basically wot your saying is we got all muslim nutters in the world holding us country to ransom
great

[dudus]

I love it when people say muslims will take over Britain. How exactly? We're a democracy are we not of different faiths, how would muslims take control of a country when they are copletely and utterly outnumbered by people of other beliefs? Do we all suddenly appear in this vision of doom? Melt away perhaps?

Utterly ridiculous, no religion will ever take precedent of this country in this day and age.

The ignorance in this thread is shocking, as well as some of the hypocrisy.

bit by bit the muslims chip away at our culture
look at tht story other week about tht swimming pool covering up windows for muslim swimmers
and they walk around looking like postboxes fuk sake go to bradford GO TO ANY CITY AND SEE BUT THEN AGAIN DEZZY I BET YOUR FROM SOME VILLAGE OR SUTTIN
bit by bit

[dudus]

We've always been a multi cultural country since we became civilised, The Romans left their mark and so did the Anglo Saxons and the Vikings, they all played a part in creating a culture as we see now. The idea we've suddenly became a multi-cultural country is silly, since we've been multi-cultural for a VERY long time.

yes were so clever arent we letting every tom dick and abdullah come and take our country over

[ange7]

You should get ready to post your apology for your post above.

Go Google Philip Hollobone, Conservative MP. Then come back and post your apology.
"the government" does not equal "Philip Hollobone, Conservative MP"

try harder

[ange7]

bit by bit the muslims chip away at our culture
look at tht story other week about tht swimming pool covering up windows for muslim swimmers
and they walk around looking like postboxes fuk sake go to bradford GO TO ANY CITY AND SEE BUT THEN AGAIN DEZZY I BET YOUR FROM SOME VILLAGE OR SUTTIN
bit by bit
"British culture" = "pools with windows".
mahahah!!! have a think
Off the pipe mate or you'll lose your mind "bit by bit"

[Tom4784]

bit by bit the muslims chip away at our culture
look at tht story other week about tht swimming pool covering up windows for muslim swimmers
and they walk around looking like postboxes fuk sake go to bradford GO TO ANY CITY AND SEE BUT THEN AGAIN DEZZY I BET YOUR FROM SOME VILLAGE OR SUTTIN
bit by bit

ROFL, The Muslims taking over our country one swimming pool at a time.

The point somebody else made is a great one, most immigrants from middle eastern countries come here to escape the restrictions of their home country, why would they want to do the same here? Also like I said before, muslims aren't some sort of hive conciousness you get the few extremists (like with any religion) but the rest are individuals, they don't want to take over the UK and it's hilarious when Media brainwashed sheep think they do.

yes were so clever arent we letting every tom dick and abdullah come and take our country over

You know there's a pretty good chance that your bloodline has ties to other countries too you know? There's hardly anyone who's purely Brittish due to the influences of other countries during our development. When you consider it like that it's funny to see you spouting off like a mouthpiece of the daily mail.

[InOne]

I guess it could be argued that the Burka deflects the real problems of Islam in the UK. (And no not the Muslims taking over :tongue:)

[spitfire]

If they do vote to ban wearing the veil/burka, beekeepers are going to be livid!

[arista]

The Conservative-LibDems
have confirmed they will not ban it in the UK.


Case Closed.

[oddballmisfitsFTW]

It should be banned.

We are the U.K. NOT the U.A.E

[ange7]

The Conservative-LibDems
have confirmed they will not ban it in the UK.


Case Closed.
Case Closed. Indeed
The OP poster needs to check their facts before posting inflammatory BS.

[ange7]

It should be banned.

We are the U.K. NOT the U.A.E
But the UAE have laws about how to dress not the free UK. If "We are the U.K" then why create laws about who should wear what like the UAE do?

Do you want us to turn into the UAE oddballmisfitsFTW? We are the U.K. NOT the U.A.E. :P

[Shasown]

If a group of overweight women who were insecure and self-conscious about their bodies wanted the windows blacked out - do you think the pool would have agreed! Preferential treatment - simple as!

And most Muslims come here to get jobs and make money - not to escape their countries or their religion! Let's not kid ourselves it is about loving Britain - just the improved lifestyle it provides!

The funny thing that gets me is why were the windows blacked out? It was the councils decision. Thinking about it though if Muslim women were worried about their modesty, wouldnt they just wear a full body bathing suit - the so called Burkini:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GIsBUiARrho/SEtAJbk6d5I/AAAAAAAAASc/lOBfdPxhYis/s400/1549_1.jpg

If they wore bikinis or normal bathing costumes wouldnt they be immodest with regards to the other bathers?

However if you look into the story a bit more closely, you will find it wasnt just muslims who wanted the windows screened it was non muslims as well. Also the pools were not pitched into darkness as claimed, The film applied to the windows was actually translucent which allows natural light through.

http://www.walsall.gov.uk/news/leisure_chief_refutes_darlaston_leisure_centre_cla ims.htm

Definately a case of churnalism:

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2010/07/non-story-about-local-pool-forces.html

In essence, a leisure centre has added a few privacy measures to a swimming pool after suggestions from Muslims and non-Muslims.

The tabloids turn this into: Muslims force Council to black out all windows in a swimming pool so they can swim while ruining it for everyone else.