Does religion do any good at all?

[Crimson Dynamo]

In the world?

[Patrick]

It's a load of bollocks.

Just idiots who have nothing better to do than worship some bloke that doesn't exist.

[Smithy]

Yeah, it does

I'm not religious, but if it gives people hope/faith w/e, I don't see the harm

[Pyramid*]

There are millions upon millions of people who have faith in whatever type of religion they chose to follow, and it's a faith that brings them great peace, hope and comfort.

Not everyone who follows religion are fanatical extremists hell bent on fighting for their relgious beliefs.

so in answer to the question: yes, I do think it does good.

[MTVN]

There are millions upon millions of people who have faith in whatever type of religion they chose to follow, and it's a faith that brings them great peace, hope and comfort.

Not everyone who follows religion are fanatical extremists hell bent on fighting for their relgious beliefs.

so in answer to the question: yes, I do think it does good.

Agree with this.

[Niall]

Religion does do good. It gives people something to believe in after they pass on. Its so bleak to think that after you die there's nothing and that its truly the end. That honestly scares me. :(

I'm religious but I don't believe in church or anything. I just pray to God when I feel like I need to. But it doesn't cause much trouble. Only fanatics cause problems. :/

[Patrick]

Yeah, it does

I'm not religious, but if it gives people hope/faith w/e, I don't see the harm

All it does is create conflict.

[Smithy]

All it does is create conflict.

No it doesn't, If someone prays in private and it gives them faith how does it cause conflict?

[Niall]

All it does is create conflict.

But anything could create conflict. Like say if you hated the colour blue and i loved it that would cause conflict? :shrug:

(I know thats a pathetic example btw :laugh:)

[Crimson Dynamo]

hope for what?

it seems a poor trade off for all the harm it causes?

[Pyramid*]

All it does is create conflict.

Really?

Last year, Haj had around 3million people make the journey for the annual pilgrimage. 3 million people. How much conflict did that cause?

Lourdes. Had around 45,000 pilgrims attend on the 150th anniversary in 2008. How much conflict did that cause?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Religion, by its nature, demands that there is NO room for debate

right?

[Pyramid*]

Religion, by its nature, demands that there is NO room for debate

right?

Wrong.

[Beastie]

It's fine. You can believe in whatever you want. If it gets you through something then it's a good thing. However religion is your own individual thing, what you, yourself believes in. I don't agree with parents or whoever brainwashing their sprogs, people telling other people who and what to believe in.

People who are very strong with their religion and don't agree with someone else's religion just need to "agree to disagree" unless they can have an acceptable adult discussion on the matter.

[Stu]

It's that old debate about being at peace versus being realistic. Priests and devouts are more than ready to pen Sunday paper columns about how atheists fail to see that religion brings people great peace, comfort and something to believe in but really ... is religion the only thing that can do that? Get another hobby. The world is full of plenty of stuff to do, plenty of great minds and plenty of great, comforting things.

Nobody believes in religion soley as a form of therapy. Nobody knows The Bible is a load of daft fantasy but believes it anyway for the 'comfort'. At least I don't know anybody like that. They are all willingly sustaining a lie and believing in something that is a load of B.S. In my mind that's not a positive. And it's certainly not a positive to delude yourself and deprive yourself of information about the world so you can preserve your nice, comftorable lie.

Again I'm sounding like a mean old atheist, as I tend to do in these threads, even though I think atheism is a similarly bizarre leap of faith. It's not the search for a higher concoious per say that I am against. Search all you want and take comfort in the knowledge that you think some cosmic force of peace exists ... just don't claim to have the guys autobiography.

I guess the point is do those people need religion to bring them peace and comfort? Of course not. They believe in it either through blisfull ignorance or family upbringing. Plenty of other pursuits could bring them the same peace and comfort.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Wrong.

and the movement in islam is where?

and

what is the last line of the christian bible?

[Pyramid*]

It's fine. You can believe in whatever you want. If it gets you through something then it's a good thing. However religion is your own individual thing, what you, yourself believes in. I don't agree with parents or whoever brainwashing their sprogs, people telling other people who and what to believe in.

People who are very strong with their religion and don't agree with someone else's religion just need to "agree to disagree" unless they can have an acceptable adult discussion on the matter.


I agree with you on your points. Religion is/can be a very individual thing and very much open to individual interpretation. Some do have very strong religious beliefs but at the core of any religion, is peace and harmony - and I'm with you on your comment about those who have very strong belief in their chosen religion should accept that their strength of devotion to their specific religion is precisely that, it is theirs, that is their choice - and other have the right to make their own alternative choices.

[Pyramid*]

It's that old debate about being at peace versus being realistic. Priests and devouts are more than ready to pen Sunday paper columns about how atheists fail to see that religion brings people great peace, comfort and something to believe in but really ... is religion the only thing that can do that? Get another hobby. The world is full of plenty of stuff to do, plenty of great minds and plenty of great, comforting things.

Nobody believes in religion soley as a form of therapy. Nobody knows The Bible is a load of daft fantasy but believes it anyway for the 'comfort'. At least I don't know anybody like that. They are all willingly sustaining a lie and believing in something that is a load of B.S. In my mind that's not a positive. And it's certainly not a positive to delude yourself and deprive yourself of information about the world so you can preserve your nice, comftorable lie.

Again I'm sounding like a mean old atheist, as I tend to do in these threads, even though I think atheism is a similarly bizarre leap of faith. It's not the search for a higher concoious per say that I am against. Search all you want and take comfort in the knowledge that you think some cosmic force of peace exists ... just don't claim to have the guys autobiography.

I guess the point is do those people need religion to bring them peace and comfort? Of course not. They believe in it either through blisfull ignorance or family upbringing. Plenty of other pursuits could bring them the same peace and comfort.

As an agnostic, I understand your point of view and agree with it ... to a point. Do they these people need religion? I would say yes, 'those believers' do - because they have chosen to follow that belief. If some people find to chose religion to find peace, comfort etc, based on something that is highly improbable - that I find high improbable, who am I to say they should find some other form of pursuit?

I know many who in real times of hardship and suffering, who have found their religion a source of great comfort. I personally can't understand what it is they find in it, but it's not for me to say they should find something more tangible, something more believable. Do I think most (even all) of it is BS? Yes I do. However, it's the individual's choice to make that decision to have faith in something that's highly unlikely and if that's what they want to do, it's their life. Long as they aren't harming anyone, it's fine by me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I agree with you on your points. Religion is/can be a very individual thing and very much open to individual interpretation. Some do have very strong religious beliefs but at the core of any religion, is peace and harmony - and I'm with you on your comment about those who have very strong belief in their chosen religion should accept that their strength of devotion to their specific religion is precisely that, it is theirs, that is their choice - and other have the right to make their own alternative choices.

at the core of all is a delusional belief in magic

[Sarah.]

No.
:)

[Shaun]

in the past it has done. I doubt literature would exist without the need to print copies of the Bible and other religious texts. Christmas is lovely. And it's always good to question our existance, rather than sit passively by and bitch about other religious people.

[Angus]

The true bigots are those that don't allow others to believe in whatever the hell they want to believe in, provided it hurts no-one else. Those that mock and jeer at others' beliefs are just bolstering up their own pathetic superiority complex and belief system, for the most part not based on any tangible or definitive proof or evidence. If a deeply held faith gives someone comfort, meaning and structure to their lives what the hell does it have to do with anyone else?

I have no problem with any religion, if someone wants to worship an invisible deity(ies) that is their choice. What I do have a problem with is those that hi-jack a religion to further their own agendas.

The answer to the OP's original question is YES religion is overall a force for good in the world since it can ennoble the human spirit and motivate people in positive and inspirational ways. The fact that a minority of fanatics selectively interpret religious doctrine to pursue their own ideologies should not detract from that simple truth. IMO The problems in this world do not emanate from religion but from politics and the pursuit of power.

[Pyramid*]

The true bigots are those that don't allow others to believe in whatever the hell they want to believe in, provided it hurts no-one else. Those that mock and jeer at others' beliefs are just bolstering up their own pathetic superiority complex and belief system, for the most part not based on any tangible or definitive proof or evidence. If a deeply held faith gives someone comfort, meaning and structure to their lives what the hell does it have to do with anyone else?

I have no problem with any religion, if someone wants to worship an invisible deity(ies) that is their choice. What I do have a problem with is those that hi-jack a religion to further their own agendas.

The answer to the OP's original question is YES religion is overall a force for good in the world since it can ennoble the human spirit and motivate people in positive and inspirational ways. The fact that a minority of fanatics selectively interpret religious doctrine to pursue their own ideologies should not detract from that simple truth. IMO The problems in this world do not emanate from religion but from politics and the pursuit of power.

Completely agree with you on the highlighted parts.

[Stu]

My one word answer to Angus's post is 'Scientology'.

Seriously though ... nobody is trying to stop people from worshipping. I just think it's silly and you should find a way of lighting the aul spirit that doesn't involve the wilful abandonment of reason.

That's my belief. And it makes me happy and comftorable etc.

[Angus]

My one word answer to Angus's post is 'Scientology'.

Seriously though ... nobody is trying to stop people from worshipping. I just think it's silly and you should find a way of lighting the aul spirit that doesn't involve the wilful abandonment of reason.

That's my belief. And it makes me happy and comftorable etc.

If Scientology is the answer, what was the question?:confused:

I made my position more than clear - IMO religion only becomes a threat when it becomes politicized. Meanwhile, I don't give a flying fart what anyone chooses to believe in so long as it harms no-one else.

[Zippy]

Religion has without doubt been incredibly damaging to the human race. It's at the root of millions of deaths and certainly the cause of many many prejudices and narrow minded, judgemental opinions.

That said, it's unavoidable. I think human beings have always had an instinctive need to look to a higher force. Animals don't but we humans just think to damn much. Not me, Ive never felt any need for religion.

But to answer the question; I'm sure religion is very helpful to people in times of bereavement. Or in helping people come to terms with their own mortality even. Used wisely I can see that it could be very comforting in certain situations. I guess it depends on how you apply the bibles teachings to your life. You can pretty much pick and choose which bits you choose to live by and which bits you ignore. Thats more or less what religious people do anyways.

[InOne]

Religion gives the poor hope. That is about it.

[Shasown]

Religion has without doubt been incredibly damaging to the human race. It's at the root of millions of deaths and certainly the cause of many many prejudices and narrow minded, judgemental opinions.

That said, it's unavoidable. I think human beings have always had an instinctive need to look to a higher force. Animals don't but we humans just think to damn much. Not me, Ive never felt any need for religion.

But to answer the question; I'm sure religion is very helpful to people in times of bereavement. Or in helping people come to terms with their own mortality even. Used wisely I can see that it could be very comforting in certain situations. I guess it depends on how you apply the bibles teachings to your life. You can pretty much pick and choose which bits you choose to live by and which bits you ignore. Thats more or less what religious people do anyways.

Whilst religion has been cited as the root cause for a lot of strife and wars, there arent many religions that advocate conversion through superior firepower.

It could also be argued society wouldnt be as advanced or as civilised as it is today without religion. Most charity organisation like the Red Cross/Red Crescent, Oxfam, Salvation Army etc (generally the longer running humanitarian charities) were started off by advocates of various religions.

[Kerry]

Mixed feelings. If people find comfort from it - great. If people think they should blow up countries for it - No

[Shasown]

Mixed feelings. If people find comfort from it - great. If people think they should blow up countries for it - No

So, oil is the god of the USA?

[Kerry]

So, oil is the god of the USA?

Not up for a deep debate Terry. I was just stating what I thought

[Shasown]

Not up for a deep debate Terry. I was just stating what I thought

Nah I agree entirely with what you say, if people want to believe in the sun god or whatever thats up to them, so long as they dont enforce it on others, I dont really care. If it helps people cope with loss, a hard life etc let them crack on.

[Pyramid*]

Whilst religion has been cited as the root cause for a lot of strife and wars, there arent many religions that advocate conversion through superior firepower.

It could also be argued society wouldnt be as advanced or as civilised as it is today without religion. Most charity organisation like the Red Cross/Red Crescent, Oxfam, Salvation Army etc (generally the longer running humanitarian charities) were started off by advocates of various religions.

Good point. Also throws up the consideration for all the good work missionaries do in setting up schools in an effort to help provide at least some basic education to those less fortunate, builing & clinics, shelters etc in the most underprividged areas. So back to the original question - does religion do any good at all - yes.

[Angus]

Religion gives the poor hope. That is about it.

And of course it also bestows power, influence and riches on those that are able to exploit it - just look at the Vatican and the far reaching political influence it wields, especially in powerful countries like the USA.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The main religion of the USA and the world is Money

[Zippy]

It could also be argued society wouldnt be as advanced or as civilised as it is today without religion. Most charity organisation like the Red Cross/Red Crescent, Oxfam, Salvation Army etc (generally the longer running humanitarian charities) were started off by advocates of various religions.

I'm pretty sure you do not need to be of any religious persuasion to want to reach out and help others. So big charities would have been formed regardless. The ones you mention have just been around longer probably. But charity is certainly not owned by religion.

Wanting to help those in desperate need is a just basic human instinct I would think....and hope. Im not giving religion that one!

I haven't researched the subject but I suspect the origins of many religions is about power and control. Forcing society to behave a certain way and then outcasting those who do not conform. Thats still pretty much how it works today.

[Niamh.]

I'm pretty sure you do not need to be of any religious persuasion to want to reach out and help others. So big charities would have been formed regardless. The ones you mention have just been around longer probably. But charity is certainly not owned by religion.

Wanting to help those in desperate need is a just basic human instinct I would think....and hope. Im not giving religion that one!

I haven't researched the subject but I suspect the origins of many religions is about power and control. Forcing society to behave a certain way and then outcasting those who do not conform. Thats still pretty much how it works today.

great post Zippy, I agree 100% with everything you said. Alot of the time religions forcing control over the masses by fear, telling them they'll go to hell if they don't follow the rules of the church etc

[Crimson Dynamo]

Would Ireland be a better place without christianity?

[Niamh.]

Would Ireland be a better place without christianity?

absolutely, The Catholic Church are responsible for some terrible things that happened in Ireland

[Shasown]

I'm pretty sure you do not need to be of any religious persuasion to want to reach out and help others. So big charities would have been formed regardless. The ones you mention have just been around longer probably. But charity is certainly not owned by religion.

Wanting to help those in desperate need is a just basic human instinct I would think....and hope. Im not giving religion that one!

I haven't researched the subject but I suspect the origins of many religions is about power and control. Forcing society to behave a certain way and then outcasting those who do not conform. Thats still pretty much how it works today.

Have to agree you dont need to be religious to give to charity or to start a charity. Still, I cant think of many charities that werent started by devout believers in one religion or another, even less that have been around for say over a hundred years. Thats not saying they dont exist, they do.

I would say most religions started off as an attempt to explain the meaning of life, mans place in the cosmos etc. It just happens that a subverted religion is an ideal tool to control and influence.

Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism the early Greek and Roman religions for example didnt start off about control. Though in some cases at certain times most have been corrupted or subverted to control the masses.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its inherited. hardly anyone who is religious found religion on their own. religious parents tend to have religious children

[Tom4784]

I think Religion & Belief is harmless when it's personal but it becomes dangerous if forced on others as then it can be abused and manipulated. I'm no fan of organised religion, I prefer to have my own beliefs and leave it at that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think Religion & Belief is harmless when it's personal but it becomes dangerous if forced on others as then it can be abused and manipulated. I'm no fan of organised religion, I prefer to have my own beliefs and leave it at that.

what are your own beliefs about magic gods?

[Tom4784]

what are your own beliefs about magic gods?

I'll bite.

I like to believe in a god but I believe in science and evolution as well. I can't see why one side can only be right. Who's to say that God created all we know with a big bang and Evolution? If there's an afterlife then I don't believe in the idea that you have to be a devout religious person to access it, it's something I struggle with in organised religions because what if an Atheist lead a perfectly good life helping others and generally bettering the world in whichever way they could? Would they be denied Heaven (or Heaven equivelant) despite the good they achieved with their life just because they didn't believe? I don't like that. I think we've got free will to choose, not be bullied into believing out of fear. I do like the idea of a purgatory though, not so much burning-in-a-lake-of-fire purgatory but a place where you make peace with the questionable stuff you've done in the past before moving on. I don't believe in Hell full stop.

Hmm, that's the general gist of it. Not saying it's right or wrong but that's what I like to believe personally.

[Crimson Dynamo]

One side describes what we know and experience day to day, it explains it using a method that can be checked and peer reviewed using techniques that we use in all other disciplines like the law


the other side is fabricated and no one would even attempt to try and prove it otherwise


the 2 cant live together for that very reason

[Shasown]

One side describes what we know and experience day to day, it explains it using a method that can be checked and peer reviewed using techniques that we use in all other disciplines like the law


the other side is fabricated and no one would even attempt to try and prove it otherwise


the 2 cant live together for that very reason

Interesting viewpoint LT.

Not meaning to be insulting but do you suffer from Schizophrenia or some other disorder?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Interesting viewpoint LT.

Not meaning to be insulting but do you suffer from Schizophrenia or some other disorder?

none taken:hugesmile:

no i do not

but dont take his word for it, he wouldnt

[Zippy]

Its inherited. hardly anyone who is religious found religion on their own. religious parents tend to have religious children

Many find new religions by themselves. Madonna certainly found a few.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Many find new religions by themselves. Madonna certainly found a few.

i would imagine the figure is like 0.5% worldwide

[Shasown]

none taken:hugesmile:

no i do not

but dont take his word for it, he wouldnt

I dont :wink:

[arista]

"Madonna certainly found a few"


No that Old Bint found Money Greedy Cults.

[bananarama]

Yeah, it does

I'm not religious, but if it gives people hope/faith w/e, I don't see the harm

If only it were that simple........Yes it does give people hope etc it enables them to self delude and be content......

However religion also helps many many to self delude and creat horrendous rules and and pontless rituals.......Self delusion turns to serious mental disorders which lead many to do inhuman things and control other peoples lives........

It may be good for some but it creates hell on earth for many........Sadly religion is far far from being harmless.......

[Smithy]

If only it were that simple........Yes it does give people hope etc it enables them to self delude and be content......

However religion also helps many many to self delude and creat horrendous rules and and pontless rituals.......Self delusion turns to serious mental disorders which lead many to do inhuman things and control other peoples lives........

It may be good for some but it creates hell on earth for many........Sadly religion is far far from being harmless.......

That then justifies that it does a little good, although it's pretty much the same for the majority. It isn't portrayed like that by the media, who make it look like the opposite.

[Zippy]

That then justifies that it does a little good, although it's pretty much the same for the majority. It isn't portrayed like that by the media, who make it look like the opposite.

millions die in Africa as a direct result of religious objections to contraception and abortion. Thats just for starters...

[BB_Eye]

I think pretty much every major religion has its good points apart from Christianity.

[InOne]

I think pretty much every major religion has its good points apart from Christianity.

All the mono ones are pretty much the same, why single out Christianity?

[Smithy]

millions die in Africa as a direct result of religious objections to contraception and abortion. Thats just for starters...

or due to the fact they have poor education of contraception and can't afford an abortion

[BB_Eye]

All the mono ones are pretty much the same, why single out Christianity?
The Islamic world inherited the philosophical and scientific sophistication of the ancient Greeks and Romans and brought many benefits to the world as a result. Medieval Europe was a laughing stock compared to the Arab world for this reason and destroyed far more than it created. The European Renaissance that came later owes more to Homer, Pythagoras and Plato than it does to Jesus or St. Paul.

I also admire the fact that Islam has a far more practical goal than that of Christianity. To make politics inseperable from the teachings of the prophet Muhammad where Christianity emphasises the salvation of the soul. Something completely abstract and unattainable. In this sense, there is more truth to Islam.

Judaism clings to similar values as Christianity, but it never went so far as to universally prescribe them and as such, never became missionary. They had a bloodline to maintain and it is perhaps as a result of this that the Jewish people have accomplished so much and survived persecution to the extent that they did.

Make no mistake though, I find paganism (particularly the Greek pagans) and animism preferable to all three.

[InOne]

The Islamic world inherited the philosophical and scientific sophistication of the ancient Greeks and Romans and brought many benefits to the world as a result. Medieval Europe was a laughing stock compared to the Arab world for this reason and destroyed far more than it created. The European Renaissance that came later owes more to Homer, Pythagoras and Plato than it does to Jesus or St. Paul.

I also admire the fact that Islam has a far more practical goal than that of Christianity. To make politics inseperable from the teachings of the prophet Muhammad where Christianity emphasises the salvation of the soul. Something completely abstract and unattainable. In this sense, there is more truth to Islam.

Judaism clings to similar values as Christianity, but it never went so far as to universally prescribe them and as such, never became missionary. They had a bloodline to maintain and it is perhaps as a result of this that the Jewish people have accomplished so much and survived persecution to the extent that they did.

Make no mistake though, I find paganism (particularly the Greek pagans) and animism preferable to all three.

Well the Islamic world still has the blasphemy law, which sort of lets it down big time. Especially in this day and age :bored:

[Angus]

It is precisely because Islam is inextricably entwined with political ideology that its followers are so intolerant of other faiths, beliefs and lifestyles, and do not accept any criticism whatsoever. If ever there was a totalitarian religion, Islam is it.

[bananarama]

That then justifies that it does a little good, although it's pretty much the same for the majority. It isn't portrayed like that by the media, who make it look like the opposite.


If something only does a little good and at the price of having a deluded mind......Then a little good does not justify it's existance.......

[MTVN]

If something only does a little good and at the price of having a deluded mind......Then a little good does not justify it's existance.......

Lucky the question is "Does religion do any good at all?" then and not "Is religion's existence justified?"

[bananarama]

It is precisely because Islam is inextricably entwined with political ideology that its followers are so intolerant of other faiths, beliefs and lifestyles, and do not accept any criticism whatsoever. If ever there was a totalitarian religion, Islam is it.


Indeed and for the reasons you state a very dangerous religion.......Even in its so called moderate form.....it is an extreme mental delusion that is brainwashed into each new generation perpetuating taught madness......