[Crimson Dynamo]

In the world?

[Patrick]

It's a load of bollocks.

Just idiots who have nothing better to do than worship some bloke that doesn't exist.

[Smithy]

Yeah, it does

I'm not religious, but if it gives people hope/faith w/e, I don't see the harm

[Pyramid*]

There are millions upon millions of people who have faith in whatever type of religion they chose to follow, and it's a faith that brings them great peace, hope and comfort.

Not everyone who follows religion are fanatical extremists hell bent on fighting for their relgious beliefs.

so in answer to the question: yes, I do think it does good.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

There are millions upon millions of people who have faith in whatever type of religion they chose to follow, and it's a faith that brings them great peace, hope and comfort.

Not everyone who follows religion are fanatical extremists hell bent on fighting for their relgious beliefs.

so in answer to the question: yes, I do think it does good.

Agree with this.

[Niall]

Religion does do good. It gives people something to believe in after they pass on. Its so bleak to think that after you die there's nothing and that its truly the end. That honestly scares me.

I'm religious but I don't believe in church or anything. I just pray to God when I feel like I need to. But it doesn't cause much trouble. Only fanatics cause problems. :/

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Yeah, it does

I'm not religious, but if it gives people hope/faith w/e, I don't see the harm

All it does is create conflict.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Patrick

All it does is create conflict.

No it doesn't, If someone prays in private and it gives them faith how does it cause conflict?

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Patrick

All it does is create conflict.

But anything could create conflict. Like say if you hated the colour blue and i loved it that would cause conflict?

(I know thats a pathetic example btw )

[Crimson Dynamo]

hope for what?

it seems a poor trade off for all the harm it causes?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Patrick

All it does is create conflict.

Really?

Last year, Haj had around 3million people make the journey for the annual pilgrimage. 3 million people. How much conflict did that cause?

Lourdes. Had around 45,000 pilgrims attend on the 150th anniversary in 2008. How much conflict did that cause?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Religion, by its nature, demands that there is NO room for debate

right?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Religion, by its nature, demands that there is NO room for debate

right?

Wrong.

[Beastie]

It's fine. You can believe in whatever you want. If it gets you through something then it's a good thing. However religion is your own individual thing, what you, yourself believes in. I don't agree with parents or whoever brainwashing their sprogs, people telling other people who and what to believe in.

People who are very strong with their religion and don't agree with someone else's religion just need to "agree to disagree" unless they can have an acceptable adult discussion on the matter.

[Stu]

It's that old debate about being at peace versus being realistic. Priests and devouts are more than ready to pen Sunday paper columns about how atheists fail to see that religion brings people great peace, comfort and something to believe in but really ... is religion the only thing that can do that? Get another hobby. The world is full of plenty of stuff to do, plenty of great minds and plenty of great, comforting things.

Nobody believes in religion soley as a form of therapy. Nobody knows The Bible is a load of daft fantasy but believes it anyway for the 'comfort'. At least I don't know anybody like that. They are all willingly sustaining a lie and believing in something that is a load of B.S. In my mind that's not a positive. And it's certainly not a positive to delude yourself and deprive yourself of information about the world so you can preserve your nice, comftorable lie.

Again I'm sounding like a mean old atheist, as I tend to do in these threads, even though I think atheism is a similarly bizarre leap of faith. It's not the search for a higher concoious per say that I am against. Search all you want and take comfort in the knowledge that you think some cosmic force of peace exists ... just don't claim to have the guys autobiography.

I guess the point is do those people need religion to bring them peace and comfort? Of course not. They believe in it either through blisfull ignorance or family upbringing. Plenty of other pursuits could bring them the same peace and comfort.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Wrong.

and the movement in islam is where?

and

what is the last line of the christian bible?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by thebeast

It's fine. You can believe in whatever you want. If it gets you through something then it's a good thing. However religion is your own individual thing, what you, yourself believes in. I don't agree with parents or whoever brainwashing their sprogs, people telling other people who and what to believe in.

People who are very strong with their religion and don't agree with someone else's religion just need to "agree to disagree" unless they can have an acceptable adult discussion on the matter.

I agree with you on your points. Religion is/can be a very individual thing and very much open to individual interpretation. Some do have very strong religious beliefs but at the core of any religion, is peace and harmony - and I'm with you on your comment about those who have very strong belief in their chosen religion should accept that their strength of devotion to their specific religion is precisely that, it is theirs, that is their choice - and other have the right to make their own alternative choices.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Stu

It's that old debate about being at peace versus being realistic. Priests and devouts are more than ready to pen Sunday paper columns about how atheists fail to see that religion brings people great peace, comfort and something to believe in but really ... is religion the only thing that can do that? Get another hobby. The world is full of plenty of stuff to do, plenty of great minds and plenty of great, comforting things.

Nobody believes in religion soley as a form of therapy. Nobody knows The Bible is a load of daft fantasy but believes it anyway for the 'comfort'. At least I don't know anybody like that. They are all willingly sustaining a lie and believing in something that is a load of B.S. In my mind that's not a positive. And it's certainly not a positive to delude yourself and deprive yourself of information about the world so you can preserve your nice, comftorable lie.

Again I'm sounding like a mean old atheist, as I tend to do in these threads, even though I think atheism is a similarly bizarre leap of faith. It's not the search for a higher concoious per say that I am against. Search all you want and take comfort in the knowledge that you think some cosmic force of peace exists ... just don't claim to have the guys autobiography.

I guess the point is do those people need religion to bring them peace and comfort? Of course not. They believe in it either through blisfull ignorance or family upbringing. Plenty of other pursuits could bring them the same peace and comfort.

As an agnostic, I understand your point of view and agree with it ... to a point. Do they these people need religion? I would say yes, 'those believers' do - because they have chosen to follow that belief. If some people find to chose religion to find peace, comfort etc, based on something that is highly improbable - that I find high improbable, who am I to say they should find some other form of pursuit?

I know many who in real times of hardship and suffering, who have found their religion a source of great comfort. I personally can't understand what it is they find in it, but it's not for me to say they should find something more tangible, something more believable. Do I think most (even all) of it is BS? Yes I do. However, it's the individual's choice to make that decision to have faith in something that's highly unlikely and if that's what they want to do, it's their life. Long as they aren't harming anyone, it's fine by me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I agree with you on your points. Religion is/can be a very individual thing and very much open to individual interpretation. Some do have very strong religious beliefs but at the core of any religion, is peace and harmony - and I'm with you on your comment about those who have very strong belief in their chosen religion should accept that their strength of devotion to their specific religion is precisely that, it is theirs, that is their choice - and other have the right to make their own alternative choices.

at the core of all is a delusional belief in magic

[Sarah.]

No.

[Shaun]

in the past it has done. I doubt literature would exist without the need to print copies of the Bible and other religious texts. Christmas is lovely. And it's always good to question our existance, rather than sit passively by and bitch about other religious people.

[Angus]

The true bigots are those that don't allow others to believe in whatever the hell they want to believe in, provided it hurts no-one else. Those that mock and jeer at others' beliefs are just bolstering up their own pathetic superiority complex and belief system, for the most part not based on any tangible or definitive proof or evidence. If a deeply held faith gives someone comfort, meaning and structure to their lives what the hell does it have to do with anyone else?

I have no problem with any religion, if someone wants to worship an invisible deity(ies) that is their choice. What I do have a problem with is those that hi-jack a religion to further their own agendas.

The answer to the OP's original question is YES religion is overall a force for good in the world since it can ennoble the human spirit and motivate people in positive and inspirational ways. The fact that a minority of fanatics selectively interpret religious doctrine to pursue their own ideologies should not detract from that simple truth. IMO The problems in this world do not emanate from religion but from politics and the pursuit of power.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by angus58

The true bigots are those that don't allow others to believe in whatever the hell they want to believe in, provided it hurts no-one else. Those that mock and jeer at others' beliefs are just bolstering up their own pathetic superiority complex and belief system, for the most part not based on any tangible or definitive proof or evidence. If a deeply held faith gives someone comfort, meaning and structure to their lives what the hell does it have to do with anyone else?

I have no problem with any religion, if someone wants to worship an invisible deity(ies) that is their choice. What I do have a problem with is those that hi-jack a religion to further their own agendas.

The answer to the OP's original question is YES religion is overall a force for good in the world since it can ennoble the human spirit and motivate people in positive and inspirational ways. The fact that a minority of fanatics selectively interpret religious doctrine to pursue their own ideologies should not detract from that simple truth. IMO The problems in this world do not emanate from religion but from politics and the pursuit of power.

Completely agree with you on the highlighted parts.

[Stu]

My one word answer to Angus's post is 'Scientology'.

Seriously though ... nobody is trying to stop people from worshipping. I just think it's silly and you should find a way of lighting the aul spirit that doesn't involve the wilful abandonment of reason.

That's my belief. And it makes me happy and comftorable etc.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Stu

My one word answer to Angus's post is 'Scientology'.

Seriously though ... nobody is trying to stop people from worshipping. I just think it's silly and you should find a way of lighting the aul spirit that doesn't involve the wilful abandonment of reason.

That's my belief. And it makes me happy and comftorable etc.

If Scientology is the answer, what was the question?

I made my position more than clear - IMO religion only becomes a threat when it becomes politicized. Meanwhile, I don't give a flying fart what anyone chooses to believe in so long as it harms no-one else.