Young, foreign and over here

[Scarlett.]

Just watching this...and WOW how small minded are some of the foreign people on it

"Too many black people here" and "English girls are like Vicky Pollard"

and pretty much disrepectful about everything about this country. Aside from that, glad they showed some nicer people too.

[CaptMidnight]

I don't think they are being racist at all it is only natural to be shocked at the lack of white people. If you went to Africa and it was full of non-black people wouldn't it take you by surprise? Eastern Europe being poor doesn't have mass immigration and I doubt many have ever seen a black person before.

Most of them seemed very nice with the exception of that lad who likened English women to Vicky Pollard. >.<

The only real racism I saw were from white English.
"England is England so it should just be English"
"They do work hard but we should have kept them out"

:shocked:

[Pyramid*]

Just watching this...and WOW how small minded are some of the foreign people on it

"Too many black people here" and "English girls are like Vicky Pollard"

and pretty much disrepectful about everything about this country. Aside from that, glad they showed some nicer people too.

They aren't being small minded - they are telling it how they see it.

In the 60's here in Scotland, it was highly unusual to see a black person and our feelings were similar - because it was something we'd never experienced before. Was he racist - not at all.

As for the Vicky Pollard comment - that lad was were spot on. far too many females ARE exactly like that these days. The lad was also bang on with the physical state of many younger women these days - overweight, out of shape and fat: and many have a vocabulary that's limited to that of an 9 year old child.

He did not say that his did not like the people, that they were horrible, rude, ignorant. He simply relayed a few home truths, the Vicky Pollard ccomment in particular.

[Scarlett.]

They aren't being small minded - they are telling it how they see it.

In the 60's here in Scotland, it was highly unusual to see a black person and our feelings were similar - because it was something we'd never experienced before. Was he racist - not at all.

As for the Vicky Pollard comment - that lad was were spot on. far too many females ARE exactly like that these days. The lad was also bang on with the physical state of many younger women these days - overweight, out of shape and fat: and many have a vocabulary that's limited to that of an 9 year old child.

He did not say that his did not like the people, that they were horrible, rude, ignorant. He simply relayed a few home truths, the Vicky Pollard ccomment in particular.

So it's alright to go to another country and insult everyone on national TV? Also not all British girls are like Vicky Pollard, for some reason they all decided to go to London which is a mistake, they'd be more likely to find a job outside of the city.

By my original post I just generally meant this wasnt a particularly nice group of people. I don't mind immigration and cringe whenever I hear the "taking our jobs" ****e

[InOne]

Where can I watch this?

[Scarlett.]

On the iPlayer :]

[InOne]

Nice, will check it out later tonight.

[MTVN]

They aren't being small minded - they are telling it how they see it.

In the 60's here in Scotland, it was highly unusual to see a black person and our feelings were similar - because it was something we'd never experienced before. Was he racist - not at all.

As for the Vicky Pollard comment - that lad was were spot on. far too many females ARE exactly like that these days. The lad was also bang on with the physical state of many younger women these days - overweight, out of shape and fat: and many have a vocabulary that's limited to that of an 9 year old child.

He did not say that his did not like the people, that they were horrible, rude, ignorant. He simply relayed a few home truths, the Vicky Pollard ccomment in particular.

Saying there's a lot of black people is a little bit different to saying there's "too many black people", the first is an observation, the latter a narrow minded bigoted comment

[Pyramid*]

So it's alright to go to another country and insult everyone on national TV? Also not all British girls are like Vicky Pollard, for some reason they all decided to go to London which is a mistake, they'd be more likely to find a job outside of the city.

By my original post I just generally meant this wasnt a particularly nice group of people. I don't mind immigration and cringe whenever I hear the "taking our jobs" ****e


No one insulted 'everyone'. They were putting over their opinion. I totally disgree with you re the Vicky Pollard comment - there are more chavs than ever before. I agree with the guy on that one..... and I'm UK born and bred.


Saying there's a lot of black people is a little bit different to saying there's "too many black people", the first is an observation, the latter a narrow minded bigoted comment

so what? In their opinion, there are too many black people.

Have you ever been to a country where the white man is in the minority - and I mean by that - that walking along a street, for every 50 blacks, there are 5 white people for example.

if you aren't used to that - it's bloody intimidating, it's unsettling, it's un-nerving. Not because they are black. The could be Chinese.... it is the fact that YOU are the one in the minority - and it is an alien concept, it's not an experience you are used to - and naturally, it feels uncomfy to many people intially.

Some people simply want to see bigotry and racism in anything - and they do - where there simply is none to be seen. tbh - those who do, are themselves (imo) - the real bigots, the real troublemakers. Not those that they are accusing.

[MTVN]

so what? In their opinion, there are too many black people.

Have you ever been to a country where the white man is in the minority - and I mean by that - that walking along a street, for every 50 blacks, there are 5 white people for example.

if you aren't used to that - it's bloody intimidating, it's unsettling, it's un-nerving. Not because they are black. The could be Chinese.... it is the fact that YOU are the one in the minority - and it is an alien concept, it's not an experience you are used to - and naturally, it feels uncomfy to many people intially.

Some people simply want to see bigotry and racism in anything - and they do - where there simply is none to be seen. tbh - those who do, are themselves (imo) - the real bigots, the real troublemakers. Not those that they are accusing.

Except black people are not a majority in this country, they are very much a minority which kind of makes your whole argument fall flat. Not that it would matter anyway. It amazes me that you cannot see the sheer prejudice of saying there are "too many black people", and no it is not those who see wrong in that statement who are bigots, quite the opposite.

[CaptMidnight]

Most people aren't aware that we have such a low birth rate that our population is rapidly declining and the only thing keeping it up is the mass immigration that most western European countries have had. There's always talk about the overpopulation but I think that can only apply to countries with billions not millions.

Mass abortion, contraception without those we would wouldn't have this low birth rate problem. You will see people with 3 or 4 kids but they are a minority, too many aren't having any kids at all.

[Pyramid*]

Except black people are not a majority in this country, they are very much a minority which kind of makes your whole argument fall flat. Not that it would matter anyway. It amazes me that you cannot see the sheer prejudice of saying there are "too many black people", and no it is not those who see wrong in that statement who are bigots, quite the opposite.

did you actually watch the show, or are you arguing just for the sheer hell of it MTVN - because that is exactly how your post comes over. In fact, it's incredibly aggressive and argumentive in tone and in the words you have used.

It matters a great deal - because when 'they' were making use of the word 'blacks' in the context that they were - the scene showed a street full of persons with all manner of non caucasian people - Indians, Arabs, Pakistani, Africans, to name a few - with very few caucasians. The word 'black' would be the generalised term being applied.

It's not exactly difficult to work out that the word Blacks, didn't mean quite literally those who have skin colour from their roots being in deepest darkest Africa.

I don't know how you feel you can justify your comment, "It amazes me that you cannot see....." You don't know me MTVN, my thoughts or my opinions on such matters - so how you can be amazed by someone putting over their view - when you no nothing about that person on a personal level - beats me!! :joker:

[MTVN]

did you actually watch the show, or are you arguing just for the sheer hell of it MTVN - because that is exactly how your post comes over. In fact, it's incredibly aggressive and argumentive in tone and in the words you have used.

It matters a great deal - because when 'they' were making use of the word 'blacks' in the context that they were - the scene showed a street full of persons with all manner of non caucasian people - Indians, Arabs, Pakistani, Africans, to name a few - with very few caucasians. The word 'black' would be the generalised term being applied.

It's not exactly difficult to work out that the word Blacks, didn't mean quite literally those who have skin colour from their roots being in deepest darkest Africa.

I don't know how you feel you can justify your comment, "It amazes me that you cannot see....." You don't know me MTVN, my thoughts or my opinions on such matters - so how you can be amazed by someone putting over their view - when you no nothing about that person on a personal level - beats me!! :joker:

I have seen the clip in question and yes, I think they were very intolerant and narrow-minded, which is quite ironic really. It wasn't aggresive at all, certainly no more so than you implying that I was a bigot for supposedly "simply want[ing] to see bigotry and racism in anything". The last parapgraph makes no sense, of course I can be amazed by your view, I think you'd be pretty amazed if someone started advocating genocide wouldn't you?

[Pyramid*]

I have seen the clip in question and yes, I think they were very intolerant and narrow-minded, which is quite ironic really. It wasn't aggresive at all, certainly no more so than you implying that I was a bigot for supposedly "simply want[ing] to see bigotry and racism in anything". The last parapgraph makes no sense, of course I can be amazed by your view, I think you'd be pretty amazed if someone started advocating genocide wouldn't you?

I didn't imply anything towards you personally, once again, you twist what I have said, as you do often. Perhaps you felt like that because there may have been truth in what I said? I cannot answer that - what I can say is that you are not dealing with what I write, but with what you 'THINK' I am saying.

. No I wouldn't be amazed by someone I do not know, offering their opinion on a matter. I do feel your post was aggressive - you are being very subtle and bordering close on what I would perhaps consider baiting.

I note that despite the rules of the forum being that we may disagree with opinions, but we are to respect them. Once again, your wording above, clearly displays little respect towards my opinion. I gave you quite precise reasons for the use of the work 'Black' - yet I see you make no mention of the possibility of you even considering, considering another viewpoint other than your own.

[MTVN]

I didn't imply anything towards you personally, once again, you twist what I have said, as you do often. Perhaps you felt like that because there may have been truth in what I said? I cannot answer that - what I can say is that you are not dealing with what I write, but with what you 'THINK' I am saying.

. No I wouldn't be amazed by someone I do not know, offering their opinion on a matter. I do feel your post was aggressive - you are being very subtle and bordering close on what I would perhaps consider baiting.

I note that despite the rules of the forum being that we may disagree with opinions, but we are to respect them. Once again, your wording above, clearly displays little respect towards my opinion. I gave you quite precise reasons for the use of the work 'Black' - yet I see you make no mention of the possibility of you even considering, considering another viewpoint other than your own.

Hmm let's see, I say they made a "narrow minded and bigoted comment", you say in response "some people simply want to see bigotry and racism in anything" and it is normally those who are the bigots. Yeah, you weren't implying anything there right? I'm not an idiot Pyramid, you can be subtle about it and deny it, but the implication is clear. And if you are not amazed at someone advocating genocide then quite frankly you should be.

I have broken no rules in my comments, and if you feel I have then go ahead and report me,or even better quote me the section of the rules that I have broken. You may have your opinion but that doesn't mean it can't be subject to criticism, and the same applies to myself.

[Pyramid*]

Hmm let's see, I say they made a "narrow minded and bigoted comment", you say in response "some people simply want to see bigotry and racism in anything" and it is normally those who are the bigots. Yeah, you weren't implying anything there right? I'm not an idiot Pyramid, you can be subtle about it and deny it, but the implication is clear. And if you are not amazed at someone advocating genocide then quite frankly you should be.

I have broken no rules in my comments, and if you feel I have then go ahead and report me,or even better quote me the section of the rules that I have broken. You may have your opinion but that doesn't mean it can't be subject to criticism, and the same applies to myself.

I see you have once again, completely ignored and paid no attention whatsoever to the detailed explanations I have provided you with in several posts on the actuall TV programme.

You appear to be taking this, and making this, though all of your comments, personal. No one was speaking about you personally being bigoted or racist, cetainly not I. I don't know you well enough to make that determination, and I would not be so bold to do so. In fact, I cannot recall ever calling anyone a racist on here... EVER, even when addressing them personally. If you have taken that way, I cannot be blamed for your own interpretation of something I did not in fact say.

It's important to point out these people the show featured those who do not have English as a foreign language - and using the words 'too many blacks' may have been nothing more that their own translation to 'a lot of blacks'. The wording ''too many'' / '' a lot of'' are not that far removed in meaning - and I'd hazard a guess that speaking in a language that is not their mother tongue, help lose the translation a bit.

Have you given any consideration to that, as well as all the other very relevant points I've made in earlier posts - because I'm looking at varous reasons for them not being racist / bigots - and all seem quite valid to me.

[fruit_cake]

Other people are entitled to have their own opinions, and they don't have to match yours shock horror!!

[InOne]

Just watched this, was pretty good.

I feel bad for the ones with qualifications who could really contribute to society yet can't find work or have to work minimum wage. But the Hungarian guys seemed a bit like chancers really, no real prospects and looking for the easy life.

And their comments to what they see are just brutally honest, it probably is a culture shock to the place they have in their minds, see on TV and hear about. Especially some parts of London

[arista]

it was on bbc3

yesterday.


Do you not buy a TV mag?

[InOne]

it was on bbc3

yesterday.


Do you not buy a TV mag?

Yes, but I must've skipped over it. That is what iplayer is for

[Spline]

She doesn't have many choices and London's job market is super tough, every skill counts. if she has a master's deegree and is looking for a good paying job she shouldn't look for work in those places in the first place. I liked the Siberian girls idea of preparing for a specific position in that company.

I think the chav looking Hungarian was watching a bit too much travel channel and was looking at Britain from a tourist's pov. Actually that's an issue they all seemed to share.

And I'm afraid the Czech girl was simply unaware she was making racist comments. "We're living with black people but we don't really mind, because they're friendly" that got me rofl.

[InOne]

She doesn't have many choices and London's job market is super tough, every skill counts. if she has a master's deegree and is looking for a good paying job she shouldn't look for work in those places in the first place. I liked the Siberian girls idea of preparing for a specific position in that company.

I think the chav looking Hungarian was watching a bit too much travel channel and was looking at Britain from a tourist's pov. Actually that's an issue they all seemed to share.

And I'm afraid the Czech girl was simply unaware she was making racist comments. "We're living with black people but we don't really mind, because they're friendly" that got me rofl.

I thought the Hungarian seemed ok at first when he said he could speak, German, French and English. Then later on it said he learnt them from watching TV, I was like waaaaat :joker:

[Jordan.]

The guy who went home was a prick. How dare he say WE let him down. :bored:

[Scarlett.]

The guy who went home was a prick. How dare he say WE let him down. :bored:

Tell me about it he stayed for a fortnight applied for one job and at the interview he wore a cap and a Little Britain t-shirt and then somehow thinks its our fault he didn't get a job.

[Pyramid*]

Other people are entitled to have their own opinions, and they don't have to match yours shock horror!!

I don't believe I have indicated anything otherwise. I happened to explain in depth why i thought the opposite.

Just watched this, was pretty good.

I feel bad for the ones with qualifications who could really contribute to society yet can't find work or have to work minimum wage. But the Hungarian guys seemed a bit like chancers really, no real prospects and looking for the easy life.

And their comments to what they see are just brutally honest, it probably is a culture shock to the place they have in their minds, see on TV and hear about. Especially some parts of London

I agree.

She doesn't have many choices and London's job market is super tough, every skill counts. if she has a master's deegree and is looking for a good paying job she shouldn't look for work in those places in the first place. I liked the Siberian girls idea of preparing for a specific position in that company.

I think the chav looking Hungarian was watching a bit too much travel channel and was looking at Britain from a tourist's pov. Actually that's an issue they all seemed to share.

And I'm afraid the Czech girl was simply unaware she was making racist comments. "We're living with black people but we don't really mind, because they're friendly" that got me rofl.

I also agree - I do think she was completely unaware of how her comments may have come over, I do not think there was malice or intent to be racist.

I thought the Hungarian seemed ok at first when he said he could speak, German, French and English. Then later on it said he learnt them from watching TV, I was like waaaaat :joker:

Partly I agree in that he seemed to think he had what it took to be a translator.

It's fine to laugh (and yes, I did think.... ha ha, you're not that smart)... but after about 2 seconds I realised that at least he could speak 4 languages despite his young age.

How many in this country, UK born and bred caucasion British Citizens can speak 4 languages? Not many, with a high proportion having very limited English skills, never mind any other language far less a third or a fourth.

Being able to speak a language is very different from the written form - the guy did seem to have a 'rose tinted' idea - I can't deny that - but as I say, regardless of where he learned the languages: he spoke them well enough for the agency worker to verbalise with him. It was his written work that caused him the issues.

[Spline]

Working as a translator involves a high degree of responsibility, and learning from watching movies does not cut it. you need to know that language perfectly and have a vast vocabulary. I learned Italian from watching tv + 4 years in school and I had no problem speaking to native speakers in Italy but I'd never use that as a basis for a serious job application.

And when he said that this country has failed him, that was plain lack of responsibility on his part. Nevertheless it was a hard lesson for him and maybe in time he will realise that the country did not fail him, it was only his own projection of the UK based on unrealistic assumptions at fault.

We all have to start somewhere and accurate self assesment goes a long way in getting you closer to the real world. My advice: put money aside, buy some books if he can't afford courses. Study insanely for a year or two, then he'll have a chance.


I also agree - I do think she was completely unaware of how her comments may have come over, I do not think there was malice or intent to be racist.


She was being racist, but coming from a mono-ethnic background where she said they have white skin only she doesn't realise that times have changed in the last 50 years and it's not acceptable anymore to throw insulting prejudice on national tv.

By saying "We're living with black people but we don't really mind, because they're friendly" means she's telling the other people at that table that "black people" can be friendly. wow! Now that makes one wonder what were her initial assumptions :conf:


It's fine to laugh (and yes, I did think.... ha ha, you're not that smart)... but after about 2 seconds I realised that at least he could speak 4 languages despite his young age.

How many in this country, UK born and bred caucasion British Citizens can speak 4 languages? Not many, with a high proportion having very limited English skills, never mind any other language far less a third or a fourth.

Being able to speak a language is very different from the written form - the guy did seem to have a 'rose tinted' idea - I can't deny that - but as I say, regardless of where he learned the languages: he spoke them well enough for the agency worker to verbalise with him. It was his written work that caused him the issues.

It's rare, I agree but I don't see why anyone should you speak 4 languages if they don't need them. It's a waste of energy/time and you forget them all if you don't use them.
Sherlock Holmes didn't know the Earth went around the sun and wasn't ashamed of admiting it because to him that was useless information.

[Pyramid*]

Working as a translator involves a high degree of responsibility, and learning from watching movies does not cut it. you need to know that language perfectly and have a vast vocabulary. I learned Italian from watching tv + 4 years in school and I had no problem speaking to native speakers in Italy but I'd never use that as a basis for a serious job application.

And when he said that this country has failed him, that was plain lack of responsibility on his part. Nevertheless it was a hard lesson for him and maybe in time he will realise that the country did not fail him, it was only his own projection of the UK based on unrealistic assumptions at fault.

We all have to start somewhere and accurate self assesment goes a long way in getting you closer to the real world. My advice: put money aside, buy some books if he can't afford courses. Study insanely for a year or two, then he'll have a chance.



She was being racist, but coming from a mono-ethnic background where she said they have white skin only she doesn't realise that times have changed in the last 50 years and it's not acceptable anymore to throw insulting prejudice on national tv.

By saying "We're living with black people but we don't really mind, because they're friendly" means she's telling the other people at that table that "black people" can be friendly. wow! Now that makes one wonder what were her initial assumptions :conf:




It's rare, I agree but I don't see why anyone should you speak 4 languages if they don't need them. It's a waste of energy/time and you forget them all if you don't use them.
Sherlock Holmes didn't know the Earth went around the sun and wasn't ashamed of admiting it because to him that was useless information.


Having done TEFL work in the past, I'm aware to a degree what is involved. the lad was unrealistic and that proved itself to the point that he went back home, realising he could not quite cut it.

Re the alleged racist perception: I'm still very much of the opinion that it was not deliberately intended..I agree with what you said, and if you look back several posts: I said much the same thing in respect of 'blacks' in Scotland in the 60's for example. Now days it is considered racist, but as you say, her mindset was most likely as most in the Uk was, back decades ago. I do understand why you are thinking it could have been /or was racist. I on the other hand, and prepared to think it was not designed to be so (esp with it not being her first language also).l

If you feel there's no point in learning any other language, never mind 4 if you are unlikely to use them, that's entirely your opinion. Mine is very much that regardless of this young man's misconceived ideas of how good he would be at becoming a translator: he at least has far more multilingual skills than (most likely) anyone posting on this forum - but are happy to critisise the guy / find fault / mock him..... when he is in fact, doing what many of his age in this country cannot do - or as you put it - simply don't want to - because they think it's useless. This guy want to be a translator but now realises that he needs to hone and improve vastly, what he already knows -he needs to build on that.

it's one of the reasons the Brits are considered pretty ignorant (not fms, Brits in general) and are too lazy to learn other languages - but expect everyone to learn and understand ours.

[Scarlett.]

How many in this country, UK born and bred caucasion British Citizens can speak 4 languages? Not many, with a high proportion having very limited English skills, never mind any other language far less a third or a fourth.

Being able to speak a language is very different from the written form - the guy did seem to have a 'rose tinted' idea - I can't deny that - but as I say, regardless of where he learned the languages: he spoke them well enough for the agency worker to verbalise with him. It was his written work that caused him the issues.

I think you're sterotyping most British people as the football shirt wearing scum that some are, there are plenty of British people who can speak numerous languages, you're making an unfair generalisation on most of this country's youth.

On the whole racism thing, I can accept that it wasnt said to be offensive, but to a lot of people it seems like that. Rewatching it the majority of the group come across as nice people. Though Norbet comes across as a real dick, he seems to like generalising British people. I can understand that girl who came over to attempt the concert thing going home, she had a good job back in her own country, she may as well go back home if she failed at getting her dream job, but kudos to her for trying.

[Pyramid*]

I think you're sterotyping most British people as the football shirt wearing scum that some are, there are plenty of British people who can speak numerous languages, you're making an unfair generalisation on most of this country's youth.

On the whole racism thing, I can accept that it wasnt said to be offensive, but to a lot of people it seems like that. Rewatching it the majority of the group come across as nice people. Though Norbet comes across as a real dick, he seems to like generalising British people. I can understand that girl who came over to attempt the concert thing going home, she had a good job back in her own country, she may as well go back home if she failed at getting her dream job, but kudos to her for trying.

Nope, I am not sterotyping most British People - or rather, our 'youths' to be more specific. What I am saying that what is regarded as Vicky Pollard types are no longer simply a parody - but are increasing in numbers - and high numbers at that.

There are a damn lot of intelligent, respectful and very decent younger folk - teens and young adults who do themselves proud - that I will never say is not the case, indeed, I see some of them on this very forum.

But as I mentioned in my 1st paragraph: the Vicky Pollard type used to be amusing 10 years ago - because it was a rarity and we all 'knew' one or two like that. Unfortunately: that count is risiing. You just have to walk up any high street to see the proof.

I disagree that pro-rata, younger people in the UK speak some/many languages in comparison to our European counterparts. How many schools in the UK teach another language from the mintue the child goes to school? Very very few and mostly only private schools.

In Europe: it's pretty much standard.

Over 30+ years ago, I attended an American School in the middle east when I wasn't even yet a teen... and guess what ... 2 other languages were part of the curriculum (Arabic and a.n.other), as well as English. so I'm afraid I disagree with you that that score.

[MTVN]

I went to a State school and 2 languages was compulsory until GCSE and doing 1 was compulsory until A-Level

[MONA]

Hello everyone,

I am happy that someone decided to comment the show on BBC3. I found it very interesting!

My main concern is why BBC decides to show 5 Eastern European people on TV and decides to make stereotypes out of them on TV. Just because a certain Hungarian person behaves in a certain way does not mean the whole country behaves in a certain way!

I think people in this forum makes assumptions that everyone in that certain Eastern European country behaves in the same way.. now my question is are we not behaving exactly as the girl on TV making comments about Black people? Just because it is "acceptable" in the UK to complain about immigrants does not mean it is right. It was acceptable to complain about black people 50 years ago and it was not right. However, people do not seem to have a problem in making their mind up about a Eastern European in 10 secs since they have met them. I hope you see where I am coming from..

Secondly, I totally agree that of the people on TV have not been come from the same backgrounds as people in Britain, hence did not have the same opportunities, did not see Asian people before, did not afford to study a language. I think learning a language from TV is an admirable effort and shows how entrepreneurial people can be. I do challenge you to try learning a language just by watching TV! The Hungarian guy may not have been right in making all those comments, as some were definitely rude. I think this is because it is a hard transition for him to take. I wonder what your comments would be when you go an visit the most poor areas of Hungary, encounter strange/ maybe unpleasent situations in comparison to what you are used back at home...

Also, it is again TV programs that show England to the world as a money-making machine, where you can become rich in just under a second. That is how these people got these ideas. Most programs about the UK usually show the people that work in the City or the football hooligans.

Finally, I would like to reiterate that each person is unique and they are not representative of a country. I am from an Eastern European country, I have lived in the UK for 5 years, studied at an UK university and now having a successful job in London.

I have never made any rude comments about England, I never hang around in groups that speak a foreign language and I integrate in the society. My family background is really poor, I used to work in one of the worst conditions ever to help my grandparents and parents. I have never talked to an Asian person before I came to the UK, but I have never made any comments about it. I was shocked, but embraced the culture all together.

The minute I meet someone for the first time, they ask where I am from because of my accent. I tell them Romania, and it is a conversation killer. Most people I have met start treating me differently... I am not generalising, this is my experience. I am still going to be open and carry on. When will someone treat me as a person who is at their level, not just this "Eastern European" person? I have amazing British friends, but I had to work my heart off to achieve this, to make people appreciate it for who I am!

[MTVN]

I think people in this forum makes assumptions that everyone in that certain Eastern European country behaves in the same way.. now my question is are we not behaving exactly as the girl on TV making comments about Black people? Just because it is "acceptable" in the UK to complain about immigrants does not mean it is right. It was acceptable to complain about black people 50 years ago and it was not right. However, people do not seem to have a problem in making their mind up about a Eastern European in 10 secs since they have met them. I hope you see where I am coming from..


I see your point, and while I did think the Eastern Europeans were narrow minded I think the comments made by the two English people - "they should kick them out", "England should be just English" - were a lot more disgusting

[Pyramid*]

I went to a State school and 2 languages was compulsory until GCSE and doing 1 was compulsory until A-Level

2 language were compulsory? What age ? From Primary 1 or at secondary school.

English is taught from Primary school in the vast majority of European countries. Did you learn any of the 2 compulsory languages from Primary School... or when you moved out of Primary School?

[Scarlett.]

Hello everyone,

I am happy that someone decided to comment the show on BBC3. I found it very interesting!

My main concern is why BBC decides to show 5 Eastern European people on TV and decides to make stereotypes out of them on TV. Just because a certain Hungarian person behaves in a certain way does not mean the whole country behaves in a certain way!

I think people in this forum makes assumptions that everyone in that certain Eastern European country behaves in the same way.. now my question is are we not behaving exactly as the girl on TV making comments about Black people? Just because it is "acceptable" in the UK to complain about immigrants does not mean it is right. It was acceptable to complain about black people 50 years ago and it was not right. However, people do not seem to have a problem in making their mind up about a Eastern European in 10 secs since they have met them. I hope you see where I am coming from..

Secondly, I totally agree that of the people on TV have not been come from the same backgrounds as people in Britain, hence did not have the same opportunities, did not see Asian people before, did not afford to study a language. I think learning a language from TV is an admirable effort and shows how entrepreneurial people can be. I do challenge you to try learning a language just by watching TV! The Hungarian guy may not have been right in making all those comments, as some were definitely rude. I think this is because it is a hard transition for him to take. I wonder what your comments would be when you go an visit the most poor areas of Hungary, encounter strange/ maybe unpleasent situations in comparison to what you are used back at home...

Also, it is again TV programs that show England to the world as a money-making machine, where you can become rich in just under a second. That is how these people got these ideas. Most programs about the UK usually show the people that work in the City or the football hooligans.

Finally, I would like to reiterate that each person is unique and they are not representative of a country. I am from an Eastern European country, I have lived in the UK for 5 years, studied at an UK university and now having a successful job in London.

I have never made any rude comments about England, I never hang around in groups that speak a foreign language and I integrate in the society. My family background is really poor, I used to work in one of the worst conditions ever to help my grandparents and parents. I have never talked to an Asian person before I came to the UK, but I have never made any comments about it. I was shocked, but embraced the culture all together.

The minute I meet someone for the first time, they ask where I am from because of my accent. I tell them Romania, and it is a conversation killer. Most people I have met start treating me differently... I am not generalising, this is my experience. I am still going to be open and carry on. When will someone treat me as a person who is at their level, not just this "Eastern European" person? I have amazing British friends, but I had to work my heart off to achieve this, to make people appreciate it for who I am!

I feel the same way about the group of people that the BBC chose, when I tuned in I expected some documentary that would try to break the sterotypes out there, but the programme seemed to pander to them.

I really hate the ideas people have of immagrints, if you look at how they complain, they make no sense - they don't want people on benefits, yet, if they're working their fingers to the bone to make a life for themselves, the bigots don't like that either.

[MTVN]

2 language were compulsory? What age ? From Primary 1 or at secondary school.

English is taught from Primary school in the vast majority of European countries. Did you learn any of the 2 compulsory languages from Primary School... or when you moved out of Primary School?

I learnt some French at primary school and then did French and Spanish up until A-Level

[Pyramid*]

Hello everyone,

I am happy that someone decided to comment the show on BBC3. I found it very interesting!

My main concern is why BBC decides to show 5 Eastern European people on TV and decides to make stereotypes out of them on TV. Just because a certain Hungarian person behaves in a certain way does not mean the whole country behaves in a certain way!

I think people in this forum makes assumptions that everyone in that certain Eastern European country behaves in the same way.. now my question is are we not behaving exactly as the girl on TV making comments about Black people? Just because it is "acceptable" in the UK to complain about immigrants does not mean it is right. It was acceptable to complain about black people 50 years ago and it was not right. However, people do not seem to have a problem in making their mind up about a Eastern European in 10 secs since they have met them. I hope you see where I am coming from..

Secondly, I totally agree that of the people on TV have not been come from the same backgrounds as people in Britain, hence did not have the same opportunities, did not see Asian people before, did not afford to study a language. I think learning a language from TV is an admirable effort and shows how entrepreneurial people can be. I do challenge you to try learning a language just by watching TV! The Hungarian guy may not have been right in making all those comments, as some were definitely rude. I think this is because it is a hard transition for him to take. I wonder what your comments would be when you go an visit the most poor areas of Hungary, encounter strange/ maybe unpleasent situations in comparison to what you are used back at home...

Also, it is again TV programs that show England to the world as a money-making machine, where you can become rich in just under a second. That is how these people got these ideas. Most programs about the UK usually show the people that work in the City or the football hooligans.

Finally, I would like to reiterate that each person is unique and they are not representative of a country. I am from an Eastern European country, I have lived in the UK for 5 years, studied at an UK university and now having a successful job in London.

I have never made any rude comments about England, I never hang around in groups that speak a foreign language and I integrate in the society. My family background is really poor, I used to work in one of the worst conditions ever to help my grandparents and parents. I have never talked to an Asian person before I came to the UK, but I have never made any comments about it. I was shocked, but embraced the culture all together.

The minute I meet someone for the first time, they ask where I am from because of my accent. I tell them Romania, and it is a conversation killer. Most people I have met start treating me differently... I am not generalising, this is my experience. I am still going to be open and carry on. When will someone treat me as a person who is at their level, not just this "Eastern European" person? I have amazing British friends, but I had to work my heart off to achieve this, to make people appreciate it for who I am!


Hello, welcome and may I say.... an excellent post and says what I have been trying to say since my very first post - that those who cannot see both sides of the coin - or who may not feel that they are able to do so, may indeed be perceived as being as predjudiced as the very people that they are accusing - rightly or wrongly.

[Pyramid*]

I learnt some French at primary school and then did French and Spanish up until A-Level

You learned 'some' French at primary school? Where you taught from Primary 1? Were you taught only toward the latter stages of primary school in preparation for moving onto Secondary School.

Spanish? You haven't clarified if that began being taught as a regular lesson at Primary or Secondary?

As you can see from my earlier posts: most European countries start teaching English from Primary 1. From very early childhood.

[Scarlett.]

You learned 'some' French at primary school? Where you taught from Primary 1? Were you taught only toward the latter stages of primary school in preparation for moving onto Secondary School.

Spanish? You haven't clarified if that began being taught as a regular lesson at Primary or Secondary?

As you can see from my earlier posts: most European countries start teaching English from Primary 1. From very early childhood.

In my opinion British kids should be kept in school to either 18 or 20, and to be honest, teachers need to start giving a **** about teaching again, in secondary school only a few teachers seemed to actually teach us properly. I left school with **** results and decided I wanted to start learning stuff I wondered about on the internet. The British educational system is messed up

[MTVN]

You learned 'some' French at primary school? Where you taught from Primary 1? Were you taught only toward the latter stages of primary school in preparation for moving onto Secondary School.

Spanish? You haven't clarified if that began being taught as a regular lesson at Primary or Secondary?

As you can see from my earlier posts: most European countries start teaching English from Primary 1. From very early childhood.

I haven't heard the terms Primary 1, presumably that means at the very beginning of primary school, honestly I can't remember when I started exactly. I was merely pointing out that it isn't always true that Brits "are too lazy to learn other languages" because there was a strong emphasis on it at my school

[Pyramid*]

In my opinion British kids should be kept in school to either 18 or 20, and to be honest, teachers need to start giving a **** about teaching again, in secondary school only a few teachers seemed to actually teach us properly. I left school with **** results and decided I wanted to start learning stuff I wondered about on the internet. The British educational system is messed up

I could not agree more with you in the respect of the British eduction system falling to sub standards in recent years/ decades.

18 to 20ages though, I feel is too long and not required. I learned more than enough during my 5-17ages schooling -because it WAS hard schooling, was regimented and taken very seriously.

Daft as it sounds, but the task that Faye had tonight vs the 10 year old... I've not attended school for almost 30 years, yet I knew each of the answers -they weren't difficult - yet there is Faye, only a few years out of school, didn't know what photosynthesis was, didn't know Helen of Troy (FFS...ROME!!!).... that is scary beyond belief.

However... that's a different type of thread entirely and we'd be in danger of taking it off topic (as interesting as I personally feel it is - to the point that I raised a thread on the very subject many months ago).

[Pyramid*]

I haven't heard the terms Primary 1, presumably that means at the very beginning of primary school, honestly I can't remember when I started exactly. I was merely pointing out that it isn't always true that Brits "are too lazy to learn other languages" because there was a strong emphasis on it at my school

Let's be honest here MTVN... Primary 1 - I think really is pretty self explanatory what that term means -especially given my very clear previous posts.

Am I correct in what I have said? That you were in fact NOT taught one language, far less two, from the moment you began your schooling at primary school?

The reason I ask you to clarify is because most European schools DO start teaching languages from the beginning of the child's school life - and you stated that 2 languages were compulsory at your school.

I'm unsure what age you are, I'd hazard a guess at late teens, very early 20's if that, but if you 'cannot remember' when you began being taught another language as part of regular lessons, I can only go on the premise then, that not a great deal of emphasis was placed on it - otherwise it would be easily recalled - ie: at the very start of your schooling in Primary or at the latter stages? Was it one or two that were taught, or did one not come into play until you reached secondary school.

I'm certainly not insinuating you had a bad /poor education -not at all - so please do not misinterpret that. It is simply that you made a point of saying your State School had 2 languages as compulsory but cannot confirm at what level or at what stage in the process these became compulsory as regular lessons.

What I am trying to establish is: the difference between UK standards vs schools on the continent in respect of pupils being taught languages from a very eary age. You should not interpret that as being a slight on you personally, for that is not the case: - it's only because you raised your own schooling, that I am commenting on it.

[Vicky.]

I'm unsure what age you are, I'd hazard a guess at late teens, very early 20's if that, but if you 'cannot remember' when you began being taught another language as part of regular lessons, I can only go on the premise then, that not a great deal of emphasis was placed on it - otherwise it would be easily recalled - ie: at the very start of your schooling in Primary or at the latter stages? Was it one or two that were taught, or did one not come into play until you reached secondary school.

I am sorry but this is an absolutely ridiculous assumption. Because he cannot remember exactly how old he was wen he started learning another language...not much emphasis was placed on it?

I learnt french at primary school too. Do I remember exactly how old I was or if it was at the start of my school year? Of course not. However I do remember having roughly 3 lessons a week from being very young, though I do not recall how many minutes or hours the lessons lasted for...forgive me. I remember this because it was my fave lesson at school, and also because the room we were took to for it was very cold and up a long flight of stairs that was creepy to walk up. Not because I remember every second of my primary school life.

[MTVN]

Let's be honest here MTVN... Primary 1 - I think really is pretty self explanatory what that term means -especially given my very clear previous posts.

Am I correct in what I have said? That you were in fact NOT taught one language, far less two, from the moment you began your schooling at primary school?

The reason I ask you to clarify is because most European schools DO start teaching languages from the beginning of the child's school life - and you stated that 2 languages were compulsory at your school.

I'm unsure what age you are, I'd hazard a guess at late teens, very early 20's if that, but if you 'cannot remember' when you began being taught another language as part of regular lessons, I can only go on the premise then, that not a great deal of emphasis was placed on it - otherwise it would be easily recalled - ie: at the very start of your schooling in Primary or at the latter stages? Was it one or two that were taught, or did one not come into play until you reached secondary school.

I'm certainly not insinuating you had a bad /poor education -not at all - so please do not misinterpret that. It is simply that you made a point of saying your State School had 2 languages as compulsory but cannot confirm at what level or at what stage in the process these became compulsory as regular lessons.

What I am trying to establish is: the difference between UK standards vs schools on the continent in respect of pupils being taught languages from a very eary age. You should not interpret that as being a slight on you personally, for that is not the case: - it's only because you raised your own schooling, that I am commenting on it.

No I was not, but then your original point did not concern at what point languages began to be taught, it simply said that Brits were too lazy to learn languages. I think that given that my post said "it was compulsory in my school until GCSE" it' was that would mean the point from which I started secondary school until GCSE, 11-16

I don't see why you're overcomplicating the issue here, I'm not saying our education system is superior to that in Europe where languages are concerned, I never made such a claim, simply pointing out that some schools do still place an emphasis on languages, even if it is not primary.

And I'm 18 btw

[InOne]

I don't believe I have indicated anything otherwise. I happened to explain in depth why i thought the opposite.



I agree.



I also agree - I do think she was completely unaware of how her comments may have come over, I do not think there was malice or intent to be racist.



Partly I agree in that he seemed to think he had what it took to be a translator.

It's fine to laugh (and yes, I did think.... ha ha, you're not that smart)... but after about 2 seconds I realised that at least he could speak 4 languages despite his young age.

How many in this country, UK born and bred caucasion British Citizens can speak 4 languages? Not many, with a high proportion having very limited English skills, never mind any other language far less a third or a fourth.

Being able to speak a language is very different from the written form - the guy did seem to have a 'rose tinted' idea - I can't deny that - but as I say, regardless of where he learned the languages: he spoke them well enough for the agency worker to verbalise with him. It was his written work that caused him the issues.

Yeah I give him credit for speaking them somewhat. But as we saw, he had an idealistic view of what the UK was about. And when it didn't go his way, he blamed the UK. He didn't seem to have many prospects apart from being to converse in a few languages. That's why the Polish girl and the others with degrees deserve more merit rather than chancers like him.

[Vicky.]

Can I point out that I havent watched the program but just found that comment to be really odd, and thats the only reason I posted in here too :blush2:

[Pyramid*]

I am sorry but this is an absolutely ridiculous assumption. Because he cannot remember exactly how old he was wen he started learning another language...not much emphasis was placed on it?

I learnt french at primary school too. Do I remember exactly how old I was or if it was at the exact start of my school year? Of course not. However I do remember having roughly 3 lessons a week from being very young. I remember this because it was my fave lesson at school, and also because the room we were took to for it was very cold and up a long flight of stairs that was creepy to walk up. Not because I remember every second of my primary school life.

I think it's a fair and reasonable question Vicky. I don't agree that it is 'ridiculous' - and the reason I say that is because I left school almost, god about 29 years ago, yet I can tell you what age I was when I was began learning French and Arabic. I can also tell you when I began studying German - 3 years later. It was more in the vein that if I can recall so far back so many years: someone far younger, their memory would be so much fresher? I don't think that's unreasonable, and I don't think that's ridiculous.

the impression being given by MTVN was that 2 languages were taught at their school as part of their primary school education (in response to my previous posts about European childrens being taught another language from very early in Primary School, in the same way we are taught arithmetic, ie; 1+1 etc).

I'm not slighting MTVN - but if someone is going to say they were taught 2 languages at a UK School as a direct reflection to mirror what happens on the Continent, I think it's only fair that an accurate comparison is made.

It's highly unusual for any UK school to start very young children on foreign languages so very early - it's absolutely not a slight on MTVN or a.n.other fm. I could not have made that clear if I tried.

[InOne]

Can I point out that I havent watched the program but just found that comment to be really odd, and thats the only reason I posted in here too :blush2:

BBC iplayer! brap

[Vicky.]

It's highly unusual for any UK school to start very young children on foreign languages so very early - it's absolutely not a slight on MTVN or a.n.other fm. I could not have made that clear if I tried.

Is it really :shocked:

I thought all primary schools did it...:laugh:

[Pyramid*]

No I was not, but then your original point did not concern at what point languages began to be taught, it simply said that Brits were too lazy to learn languages. I think that given that my post said "it was compulsory in my school until GCSE" it' was that would mean the point from which I started secondary school until GCSE, 11-16

I don't see why you're overcomplicating the issue here, I'm not saying our education system is superior to that in Europe where languages are concerned, I never made such a claim, simply pointing out that some schools do still place an emphasis on languages, even if it is not primary.

And I'm 18 btw

In all fairness to me MTVN... I made it clear ... here is the part of my previous post, quite some posts ago: at which point, you responded immediately after my post by saying that you attended State School, 2 languages being compulsory..... which is how this convo has then evolved.



I disagree that pro-rata, younger people in the UK speak some/many languages in comparison to our European counterparts. How many schools in the UK teach another language from the minute the child goes to school? Very very few and mostly only private schools.

[Pyramid*]

Can I point out that I havent watched the program but just found that comment to be really odd, and thats the only reason I posted in here too :blush2:

If a 46 year old can recall their schooling from 30 years ago, it's fairly reasonable to expect an 18 year old to recall their schooling from about 6 or 7 years ago. I personally don't find it odd at all, but hey: therein lies the difference of opinion.

[Vicky.]

If a 46 year old can recall their schooling from 30 years ago, it's fairly reasonable to expect an 18 year old to recall their schooling from about 6 or 7 years ago. I personally don't find it odd at all, but hey: therein lies the difference of opinion.

You seriously remember stuff from primary school? :o

I have a hard job remembering what happened last week half the time

[Pyramid*]

Yeah I give him credit for speaking them somewhat. But as we saw, he had an idealistic view of what the UK was about. And when it didn't go his way, he blamed the UK. He didn't seem to have many prospects apart from being to converse in a few languages. That's why the Polish girl and the others with degrees deserve more merit rather than chancers like him.

oh I don't disagree with what you have said. he was looking at things through very 'rose tinted glasses' and I've said that a few times through the thread.

The others seemed far more 'switched on' and were far more realistic in what was achievable, and in what timescale. Totally agree.

However, the fact remains: that unrealistic or not: he was, in his own right, able to show more willingness to learn other languages than a great many of those of the same age in the UK. (to the point that he had 4 under his belt: and enough knowledge, enough fluency to be able to at least speak those languages).

But yes, he did certainly have a very skewed idea of how easy a life that would give him.

[Pyramid*]

You seriously remember stuff from primary school? :o

I have a hard job remembering what happened last week half the time

Sure do!!! And that's not me being flippant, I'm being serious!!

I have a pretty good memory - long and short term. Occasional blips but yep!

[InOne]

oh I don't disagree with what you have said. he was looking at things through very 'rose tinted glasses' and I've said that a few times through the thread.

The others seemed far more 'switched on' and were far more realistic in what was achievable, and in what timescale. Totally agree.

However, the fact remains: that unrealistic or not: he was, in his own right, able to show more willingness to learn other languages than a great many of those of the same age in the UK. (to the point that he had 4 under his belt: and enough knowledge, enough fluency to be able to at least speak those languages).

But yes, he did certainly have a very skewed idea of how easy a life that would give him.

Indeed, but it's different for us. People actively want to learn English to better their lives. We don't need to learn another language to better ours

[Pyramid*]

Indeed, but it's different for us. People actively want to learn English to better their lives. We don't need to learn another language to better ours

My point precisely..... that we (not you) 'we' as a nation, are lazy, and very arrogant that 'some' feel that we are already 'good' enough. That we don't need to do such things to improve our lives - yet some moan why these foreigners come over and take our jobs etc. (when it is more common place now for companies to want employees who are able to speak more than one language).

When in fact, we aren't. Many other poorer countries - or rather, their people, put us to to absolute shame - so arrogant that we are.

[InOne]

My point precisely..... that we (not you) 'we' as a nation, are lazy, and very arrogant that 'some' feel that we are already 'good' enough. That we don't need to do such things to improve our lives - yet some moan why these foreigners come over and take our jobs etc. (when it is more common place now for companies to want employees who are able to speak more than one language).

When in fact, we aren't. Many other poorer countries - or rather, their people, put us to to absolute shame - so arrogant that we are.

Yeah, it's only a minority than moan though. And it not being arrogant, it's just fact. Why bother learning another language for the sake of it when we have all the opportunities speaking English?

[Pyramid*]

Yeah, it's only a minority than moan though. And it not being arrogant, it's just fact. Why bother learning another language for the sake of it when we have all the opportunities speaking English?

I happen to think it is arrogant - to assume that others will speak English. good god, when going abroad, how often do you hear, " Hotel staff couldn't speak English" "Menus weren't in English, no one understood what we were saying" - all that kind of thing. Foreign travel these days is as common as nipping on the tube just about.

Also for the fact regarding many jobs now as I mentioned earlier.

The attitude of, "Why shoud I bother, let them learn my language - even if I'm visiting their country"....... that's arrogance, it also shows how lazy and assuming many in the UK are - and there are a great many Brits who think exactly like that (imo).

Directly back on topic though: I happen to have a young Polish lad working for me, and he is by far one of the most hard working, respectful, consciencious staff members I have ever had - quick to learn, and as keen as mustard. TBH, he's put staff that have come and gone, to absolute shame: all of whom were your standard very average Brit, who thought the world owed them a living.

[Spline]

I think you're both right. I heard someone saying that a German refused to speak English to him even if he could, because in his country you should speak his language. I find that arrogant. But not giving someone a job for not speaking good English in the UK where the job demands it, is perfectly understandable.

There's another reason for which someone might learn a new language and that's simple pleasure. I know my sister in law was fascinated with Persian poetry and wanted to read them in the original form. She learned the language and ended up pursuing a career in Farsi.

Another problem mentioned before is the schooling system which is catastrophic these days, this rings true for Europe and US alike.

Directly back on topic though: I happen to have a young Polish lad working for me, and he is by far one of the most hard working, respectful, consciencious staff members I have ever had - quick to learn, and as keen as mustard. TBH, he's put staff that have come and gone, to absolute shame: all of whom were your standard very average Brit, who thought the world owed them a living.

In some cases the Eastern Europeans can be hard working because of their Soviet history where they or their parents had to endure a lot of scarcity while the Brits enjoyed higher standards of living and in time that made them a bit more relaxed.

[InOne]

I happen to think it is arrogant - to assume that others will speak English. good god, when going abroad, how often do you hear, " Hotel staff couldn't speak English" "Menus weren't in English, no one understood what we were saying" - all that kind of thing. Foreign travel these days is as common as nipping on the tube just about.

Also for the fact regarding many jobs now as I mentioned earlier.

The attitude of, "Why shoud I bother, let them learn my language - even if I'm visiting their country"....... that's arrogance, it also shows how lazy and assuming many in the UK are - and there are a great many Brits who think exactly like that (imo).

Directly back on topic though: I happen to have a young Polish lad working for me, and he is by far one of the most hard working, respectful, consciencious staff members I have ever had - quick to learn, and as keen as mustard. TBH, he's put staff that have come and gone, to absolute shame: all of whom were your standard very average Brit, who thought the world owed them a living.

But I didn't say that though, did I...

[Pyramid*]

But I didn't say that though, did I...

Nope, and I didn't say you did.... did I.

I was giving an example only - hence my comment just above that paricular quote which referred to how commonplace foreign travel was..... I was referring to MY reference to that, and not directly attributing it to you.

[fruit_cake]

you said you were going to Spain Pyramid can you speak Spanish then?

[InOne]

Nope, and I didn't say you did.... did I.

I was giving an example only - hence my comment just above that paricular quote which referred to how commonplace foreign travel was..... I was referring to MY reference to that, and not directly attributing it to you.

I think it depends where you go, some places are worth making an effort more than others.

[Pyramid*]

you said you were going to Spain Pyramid can you speak Spanish then?

Any chance you can make comment on the thread topic and sticking to that, or are you doing what you do all the time, trying to make a thread into discussing me personally?

To satisfy your curiosity, Yes, I speak some Spanish - enough to be able to order basic foodstuffs and pass general civilities to the 'natives'.

I also happen to have some knowledge of Latin, but dammit, the Vatican City - I went, tried and they didn't understand . :(

:D

I think it depends where you go, some places are worth making an effort more than others.

that's the point though.... not many feel it is worth making an effort at all.

how many people even take phrase books abroad etc?, to enter into the spirit of things. Few and far between.

[InOne]

Any chance you can make comment on the thread topic and sticking to that, or are you doing what you do all the time, trying to make a thread into discussing me personally?

To satisfy your curiosity, Yes, I speak some Spanish - enough to be able to order basic foodstuffs and pass general civilities to the 'natives'.

I also happen to have some knowledge of Latin, but dammit, the Vatican City - I went, tried and they didn't understand . :(

:D



that's the point though.... not many feel it is worth making an effort at all.

how many people even take phrase books abroad etc?, to enter into the spirit of things. Few and far between.

All assumptions based on stereotypes I'm afraid.

[Pyramid*]

All assumptions based on stereotypes I'm afraid.

I completely disagree and I'm most likely not basing it on stereotypes, nor assumptions but facts and my experience in what I have seen - I travel abroad often enough - usally at least 2 to 3 times a year, and hear enough people complaining of the very things I mentioned earlier. so no assumption, no stereotyping - but very much my comments are based on what I see with my own eyes, hear with my own ears.