Fair or unjust?

[LivT]

Whilst I know this is a very opinionated thread; my own take on this stems, not from being a protective Aaron fan, but based more on the morality of a situation which I wouldn't view any differently regardless of who was involved.

What has truly irked me the most, and served to leave a somewhat bitter taste in my mouth, is the visible outcome of a rather unbalanced portrayal re: the Aaron/Faye drama. Whilst I would never negate that Faye has feelings, I feel hers have been voiced to death's door, whereas Aaron has calmly and tactfully declined to fight his own corner and not bring forth the things Faye has done/said which have equally hurt him. Nominating him, not once, but three times and directing ever increasing taunts and scornful remarks towards him, would have justified a good defence that Faye was not the only victim of emotional damage. Had these examples of Fayes conduct been ones of Aarons against her, there would have been solid evidence that her claims of being mistreated were founded. Some of the other housemates seemed to side in the knowledge that Faye was indeed the victim here. Personally, I feel this was down to Aaron's decision to deal with his feelings quietly so as to avoid any public distention.

To me, the whole outcome reeks of gender bias. Just because someone is female it does not give them an emotional monopoly. Therefore, I just feel Aaron has been given a very unfair hard time! :shrug:

[Beso]

good post.

However. We need to look at fayes reasons for nominating him.

[Cherie]

good post.

However. We need to look at fayes reasons for nominating him.

which were?

[Beso]

which were?

I'm about to go back and watch them all on my recorded programmes.I'm assuming it's because she though he was sending mixed signals and his huffyness is bound to come in to play somewhere.

[Jords]

no

[LivT]

good post.

However. We need to look at fayes reasons for nominating him.

Yes. of course. But what exactly were they? More to the point (and lets not lose sight here that they had already established an emotional attachment towards one another) Was it that bad that she felt justified to use noms as a means of bitter revenge? ok, had she of decided that Aaron was not for her after all, perhaps a different matter....but to me that also reeked of a woman scorned

[Ammi]

What is quite telling is the conversation she's just with him, talking about her mum and asking what he's going to do to impress her...has her mum not got to impress Aaron to...she's already judged him without meeting him....if it was the other way round and say Jay's mum had done this to Louise and Jay asked Louise how she was going to impress his mum, everyone would be screaming.......'mummy's boy!'.....there has been no empathy for how Aaron is feeling, that I can see from Faye

[LivT]

What is quite telling is the conversation she's just with him, talking about her mum and asking what he's going to do to impress her...has her mum not got to impress Aaron to...she's already judged him without meeting him....if it was the other way round and say Jay's mum had done this to Louise and Jay asked Louise how she was going to impress his mum, everyone would be screaming.......'mummy's boy!'.....there has been no empathy for how Aaron is feeling, that I can see from Faye

Absolutely, Ammi - and that is my bone of contention here.

[rusticgal]

That was a great post LivT...and you are spot on with what you have said and I totally agree with you. Faye causes drama when things are not going her way...where Aaron takes a quieter stance by distancing himself from the situation to think things through. People have translated this as sulking..and as you say the consequence of this is that people that are so fickle have seen Aaron as the one who is messing with Fayes feelings when in fact as you have said it is more evident the other way around.:wavey:

[rogerb]

which were?

she is a spoilt and very needy brat.

[LivT]

That was a great post LivT...and you are spot on with what you have said and I totally agree with you. Faye causes drama when things are not going her way...where Aaron takes a quieter stance by distancing himself from the situation to think things through. People have translated this as sulking..and as you say the consequence of this is that people that are so fickle have seen Aaron as the one who is messing with Fayes feelings when in fact as you have said it is more evident the other way around.:wavey:

Thank you kindly, rusticgal. That is exactly what I was trying to highlight and I am pleased others can see the bigger picture

[fruit_cake]

Whilst I know this is a very opinionated thread; my own take on this stems, not from being a protective Aaron fan, but based more on the morality of a situation which I wouldn't view any differently regardless of who was involved.

What has truly irked me the most, and served to leave a somewhat bitter taste in my mouth, is the visible outcome of a rather unbalanced portrayal re: the Aaron/Faye drama. Whilst I would never negate that Faye has feelings, I feel hers have been voiced to death's door, whereas Aaron has calmly and tactfully declined to fight his own corner and not bring forth the things Faye has done/said which have equally hurt him. Nominating him, not once, but three times and directing ever increasing taunts and scornful remarks towards him, would have justified a good defence that Faye was not the only victim of emotional damage. Had these examples of Fayes conduct been ones of Aarons against her, there would have been solid evidence that her claims of being mistreated were founded. Some of the other housemates seemed to side in the knowledge that Faye was indeed the victim here. Personally, I feel this was down to Aaron's decision to deal with his feelings quietly so as to avoid any public distention.

To me, the whole outcome reeks of gender bias. Just because someone is female it does not give them an emotional monopoly. Therefore, I just feel Aaron has been given a very unfair hard time! :shrug:

the even bigger picture than the one you've painted is that the only reason Aaron gets away with what he does is because he's good looking.

When Aden went into a sulk he was vilified for it, same as Jay.

[Cromwell1900]

What is quite telling is the conversation she's just with him, talking about her mum and asking what he's going to do to impress her...has her mum not got to impress Aaron to...she's already judged him without meeting him....if it was the other way round and say Jay's mum had done this to Louise and Jay asked Louise how she was going to impress his mum, everyone would be screaming.......'mummy's boy!'.....there has been no empathy for how Aaron is feeling, that I can see from Faye

I think the trouble is that no matter how hard people try to be Objective it is difficult. Often it boils down to Tomato or Tomatoe's

You present the comparison of Jay & Louise to Aaron & Faye hinting at a double standard in play. This is how i would explain for myself why it may be taken as so.

Jay is overly sexual with Louise, i'm a bloke and i understand that, although certainly would not behave that way myself. I don't think of it as detestable however, that is because i think he has outside of that treated her with respect. And i can see that he cares a hell of a lot about her. Sure he likes her more than she likes him but that's not a fault.

I agree with Jay when he said Aaron is impossible to read, and that may have something to do with negative opinions of him i.e if he does not say You've pee'd me off, instead choosing to simply ignore a Hm, it leaves the door wide open for speculation. I also think if you admit to playing a game and you don't keep us informed ala Anton, your asking for trouble. Subjective views quickly follow in through the door, and it becomes impossible to call. Does a default stance result! i like Aaron therefore he was not guilty, likewise, i don't like Aaron therefor he was guilty.

Aside from that. I keep comparing the Faye which walked through the door Day 1 with the Faye i'm seeing today and, it's chalk & cheese. She's testing Aaron at every chance, tests designed to assess his like for her (Burp, asking Maisy into his bed then leaving the bed herself) It's all very childish.
And no fault of Aaron's, but he is 30 and she is much younger and any criticism of using Faye from me Now is centered around the apparent ability for this un-tolerating Man to tolerate Faye in the confusing fashion he does it in.

The second Aaron drops Faye, he can play what ever game he wants and he'll be loved for it, because he seems like a really nice guy apart from his unwillingness to seek resolutions.

[Angus]

the even bigger picture than the one you've painted is that the only reason Aaron gets away with what he does is because he's good looking.

When Aden went into a sulk he was vilified for it, same as Jay.

Oh I see, us Aaron fans only like him because he's good looking eh? Bit of a swipe at his fans intimating we are that shallow:bored: There's a hell of a lot more to Aaron than his looks and those of us who support him appreciate that. He is a complex person, unlike the immature little brat that is Faye.

Anyway, it will all be academic tomorrow night when she is finally booted out of the house, courtesy of her horrible sister. At least Jemma served some purpose in the house after all by getting her own sister up for eviction:laugh:

[LivT]

the even bigger picture than the one you've painted is that the only reason Aaron gets away with what he does is because he's good looking.

When Aden went into a sulk he was vilified for it, same as Jay.

Hmm..well, I for one don't support Aaron on the grounds that he is good looking. I rather doubt many intelligent adults are that feeble minded. I understand what you are saying regarding an individuals moods, which always manifest themselves in different ways. Perhaps Aarons didn't generate the same reactions because his are mostly restrained, whilst Jay and Aden demonstrate their own emotions more loudly

[Angus]

Oh god, cringeworthy performance by hasbeens Steps. Wasn't good first time round, and it hasn't got any better:bored:

[fruit_cake]

I don't know each individual's reasons for supporting Aaron but if I were to support him it would be purely because of the way he looks, which is why I don't. It would seem really superficial to me to support someone based on the way they look.

If someone is pleasing on the eye, it's a lot easier to accept their failings.

Aden was a far more complicated individual, and ultimately will probably end up a much more interesting and thoughtful individual in my opinion. Rebeckah could see that which is why she did what she did. It's called seeing the 'bigger picture'!

[Ammi]

I think the trouble is that no matter how hard people try to be Objective it is difficult. Often it boils down to Tomato or Tomatoe's

You present the comparison of Jay & Louise to Aaron & Faye hinting at a double standard in play. This is how i would explain for myself why it may be taken as so.

Jay is overly sexual with Louise, i'm a bloke and i understand that, although certainly would not behave that way myself. I don't think of it as detestable however, that is because i think he has outside of that treated her with respect. And i can see that he cares a hell of a lot about her. Sure he likes her more than she likes him but that's not a fault.

I agree with Jay when he said Aaron is impossible to read, and that may have something to do with negative opinions of him i.e if he does not say You've pee'd me off, instead choosing to simply ignore a Hm, it leaves the door wide open for speculation. I also think if you admit to playing a game and you don't keep us informed ala Anton, your asking for trouble. Subjective views quickly follow in through the door, and it becomes impossible to call. Does a default stance result! i like Aaron therefore he was not guilty, likewise, i don't like Aaron therefor he was guilty.

Aside from that. I keep comparing the Faye which walked through the door Day 1 with the Faye i'm seeing today and, it's chalk & cheese. She's testing Aaron at every chance, tests designed to assess his like for her (Burp, asking Maisy into his bed then leaving the bed herself) It's all very childish.
And no fault of Aaron's, but he is 30 and she is much younger and any criticism of using Faye from me Now is centered around the apparent ability for this un-tolerating Man to tolerate Faye in the confusing fashion he does it in.

The second Aaron drops Faye, he can play what ever game he wants and he'll be loved for it, because he seems like a really nice guy apart from his unwillingness to seek resolutions.

I used Jay/Louise as an example simply because Aaron's mum didn't nominate at all whereas Jay's did...for no other reason. The same would have applied if Aaron's mum had of nominated and said she didn't like Faye or the way she treated Aaron...the Aaron going on to ask Faye how she would impress his mum.......everyone would scream 'mummy's boy!' and say why should Faye do anything to impress his mum, when she was the one who had judged him harshly........added to this the fact that Faye has not showed any sign of empathy towards Aaron and how this has affected him, where he has been visibly distraught and shaking at one point...

[Cromwell1900]

I used Jay/Louise as an example simply because Aaron's mum didn't nominate at all whereas Jay's did...for no other reason. The same would have applied if Aaron's mum had of nominated and said she didn't like Faye or the way she treated Aaron...the Aaron going on to ask Faye how she would impress his mum.......everyone would scream 'mummy's boy!' and say why should Faye do anything to impress his mum, when she was the one who had judged him harshly........added to this the fact that Faye has not showed any sign of empathy towards Aaron and how this has affected him, where he has been visibly distraught and shaking at one point...


I just wish i knew the extent of Aarons game.

but, yep! i see your point, Faye is very selfish and i certainly don't criticize Faye as much as is deserved for her behavior.

[Marmalite]

the even bigger picture than the one you've painted is that the only reason Aaron gets away with what he does is because he's good looking.

When Aden went into a sulk he was vilified for it, same as Jay.


:joker: You are comparing Aaron to Aden? :joker:

Aden did a little more than sulk by himself in the bathroom or bedroom....... he sulked (mostly because of Rebeckah), he cried like a big baby (mostly about Rebeckah), then went all street gangsta (mostly because of Rebeckah), talked the biggest load of crap when drunk (mostly about Rebeckah) and went on and on about Rebeckah who he fell madly in love with and knew they would be married within 2 weeks of knowing each other.

Aaron does not get away with it btw - it's shown each and every time on the following days highlights show!

[tonyface]

I used Jay/Louise as an example simply because Aaron's mum didn't nominate at all whereas Jay's did...for no other reason. The same would have applied if Aaron's mum had of nominated and said she didn't like Faye or the way she treated Aaron...the Aaron going on to ask Faye how she would impress his mum.......everyone would scream 'mummy's boy!' and say why should Faye do anything to impress his mum, when she was the one who had judged him harshly........added to this the fact that Faye has not showed any sign of empathy towards Aaron and how this has affected him, where he has been visibly distraught and shaking at one point...


I just wish i knew the extent of Aarons game.

but, yep! i see your point, Faye is very selfish and i certainly don't criticize Faye as much as is deserved for her behavior.

Aaron shakes all the time, when he talks, because he is like an old grandma.

In our house whenever he goes into one of his diatribes or pompous speeches in the diary room, our whole family start rolling our eyes and put on that silly Rigsby like head wobble that he does....:joker:

The scallywag is working aaaaawwfully hard to win though, and it would be aaaaaahhbsolutely apppppppaaaaaaallling if he did'nt make the final...:dance:

[LivT]

I don't know each individual's reasons for supporting Aaron but if I were to support him it would be purely because of the way he looks, which is why I don't. It would seem really superficial to me to support someone based on the way they look.

If someone is pleasing on the eye, it's a lot easier to accept their failings.

Aden was a far more complicated individual, and ultimately will probably end up a much more interesting and thoughtful individual in my opinion. Rebeckah could see that which is why she did what she did. It's called seeing the 'bigger picture'!

Well, I can only speak for myself when I state that a man can look like an Adonis ..but if he didn't posses the qualities and attributes that i find appealing....then he would no longer be attractive to me.

I find Aaron and Jay to be complete polar opposites. Jay epitomises everything I find repugnant and unattractive in a man. Quickly getting past the fact that I don't see him as physically attractive anyway, I don't find him intelligently stimulating enough for me. Nor, I imagine, to any woman who needs that side to a man. The brain is definately the most erogenous zone! ;) There are a long list of Jay's personailty factions that I'm afraid counteract any of his good points. Whereas with Aaron, the attributes that are attractive to me , definately out-weigh his failings.

[Cromwell1900]

[QUOTE=Cromwell1900;4693366]

Aaron shakes all the time, when he talks, because he is like an old grandma.

In our house whenever he goes into one of his diatribes or pompous speeches in the diary room, our whole family start rolling our eyes and put on that silly Rigsby like head wobble that he does....:joker:

The scallywag is working aaaaawwfully hard to win though, and it would be aaaaaahhbsolutely apppppppaaaaaaallling if he did'nt make the final...:dance:

:joker:
Arr i love Rising Damp. and nice Caricature as well. Here's another one. :blush:

http://www.mspmentor.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/mr_burns.jpg

[Cromwell1900]

Well, I can only speak for myself when I state that a man can look like an Adonis ..but if he didn't posses the qualities and attributes that i find appealing....then he would no longer be attractive to me.

I find Aaron and Jay to be complete polar opposites. Jay epitomises everything I find repugnant and unattractive in a man. Quickly getting past the fact that I don't see him as physically attractive anyway, I don't find him intelligently stimulating enough for me. Nor, I imagine, to any woman who needs that side to a man. The brain is definately the most erogenous zone! ;) There are a long list of Jay's personailty factions that I'm afraid counteract any of his good points. Whereas with Aaron, the attributes that are attractive to me , definately out-weigh his failings.

Can i ask LivT what do you think are Aarons faults. Only reason i ask is i'm just wondering if the difference between Aaron likers, & Aaron dislikers is the emphasis placed on his faults, rather than recognition/false recognition of his faults

[InOne]

They just deal with their emotions in different ways. I think it's been pretty balanced really...

[Kazanne]

[QUOTE=Cromwell1900;4693366]

Aaron shakes all the time, when he talks, because he is like an old grandma.

In our house whenever he goes into one of his diatribes or pompous speeches in the diary room, our whole family start rolling our eyes and put on that silly Rigsby like head wobble that he does....:joker:

The scallywag is working aaaaawwfully hard to win though, and it would be aaaaaahhbsolutely apppppppaaaaaaallling if he did'nt make the final...:dance:

Well aint your whole house silly billies:joker::joker:

[LivT]

Sure Cromwell :) That is an interesting question, and one I am happy to try and answer, personally, the best way I can...

We are all complex people....but I find Aaron's complexities a little too over-whelming..this in itself can lead to a multitude of sins...but even with this... I think some would relish it and see it as a challenge. I don't find his reticence in applying support when it involves defending his friends appealing. This is different to withdrawal of conflict when it is a personal issue. I can, no doubt, come up with other examples, given some time, but I think people can feel conflicted or ambivalent towards others, meaning that they simultaneously possess both positive and negative attitudes toward the person in question. I think I kind of broached on the subject when I stated it was all about balance, and deciding which attributes, both good and bad, out-weigh one another

[LivT]

They just deal with their emotions in different ways. I think it's been pretty balanced really...

How very dare you not share my views, InOne. You're supposed to be my partner in crime !! ;) :joker:

[Cromwell1900]

[QUOTE=tonyface;4693377]

Well aint your whole house silly billies:joker::joker:

You appear to of made a mistake there Kazanne My name is in some one elses Quote. Oopsi.

[Cromwell1900]

Oh well i don't know wtf is going on with the quotes then.

[LivT]

Oh well i don't know wtf is going on with the quotes then.

*laughing*

Oh, do pick up after yourself Cromwell...you are making a dreadful mess in here!!! :dance:

[fruit_cake]

Well, I can only speak for myself when I state that a man can look like an Adonis ..but if he didn't posses the qualities and attributes that i find appealing....then he would no longer be attractive to me.


I'm not saying because a man looks like an adonis you are instantly going to like him but it certainly helps. It's a lot easier to like a good looking man than it is one who is not good looking because we are more likely to turn a blind eye to his faults and highlight his virtues. It feels like we like them for who they are but the reality is that it is a mixture of who they are and what they look like in my view at least.

Aaron has a bit of a weird personality, but he's good looking so he gets away with it.

[InOne]

How very dare you not share my views, InOne. You're supposed to be my partner in crime !! ;) :joker:

It's Faye all the way for me baby :tongue:

I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion though

[Cromwell1900]

@ LivT

I'd Agree with all of that.

His complexities are what makes him such a great Hm, and why his name dominates here at Tibb i guess. Just to complete the picture.

I suppose Judgementalism can be a fault or a strength to me in Aarons case it's a fault. Sulking rather than facing issues at least side ways on is a charactaristic of a person who tends to find other, less likeable ways of releasing there grievances, and i merely suspect Aaron has been guilty of that.

The fact that i can't separate Aaron from his game, or less likely to me he dropped the game ages ago, leaves me questioning so much about him.

[LivT]

Nicely redeemed, InOne ;)

Absolutely, Cromwell

Most attitudes are the result of either direct experience or observational learning from the environment. The latter being the viewers position, of course. I am sure many are affected or influenced by the apprehension/qualms they feel when faced with someone or something they don't understand.