Nick Clegg's office attempts to withdraw 'bigot' comment of gay marriage

[arista]

Nick Clegg's office attempts to withdraw 'bigot' comment about opponents of gay marriage
Nick Clegg attracted ridicule after hastily attempting to withdraw a press release in which he referred to opponents of gay marriage as 'bigots'.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nick-clegg/9536368/Nick-Cleggs-office-attempts-to-withdraw-bigot-comment-about-opponents-of-gay-marriage.html


There is a Conservative back bencher pain in the ass MP
Boone - who wants Clegg to stand down,

He is being silly.


Clegg is not using that word now.

[Shaun]

Well it is bigotry so I don't really see the problem :spin2:

[Tom4784]

Just another example of Clegg's spinelessness.

[Kizzy]

Well it is bigotry so I don't really see the problem :spin2:

You have just made my 'favourite post of the day' thankyou :)

Quote:
“Continued trouble in the economy gives the bigots a stick to beat us with, as they demand we 'postpone' the equalities agenda in order to deal with 'the things people really care about'. As if pursuing greater equality and fixing the economy simply cannot happen at once."

What is wrong with that statement? nothing.

[Kizzy]

Oops... the new equalities minister is a bigot....Doh!
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/376706_10151026652746555_1766876103_n.jpg

[arista]

Well it is bigotry so I don't really see the problem :spin2:

Yes it is.


But then he Attacks the loads of MPs
that a into God and Crap.

[Redway]

He's right, though. If you have a problem with gay marriage then you're an absolute moron and a homophobic bigot.

I fail to see what was so wrong in Nick Clegg's comment.

[fruit_cake]

she's got evil eyes

[Redway]

Yes it is.


But then he Attacks the loads of MPs
that a into God and Crap.

So? The world isn't exactly fluffy candy land, unless you're still in you're single digits. Morons and bigots in this world get told exactly what they are on here and that's how it should be.

[arista]

"Oops... the new equalities minister is a bigot"


Yes Kizzy thats why MP Boone - Pain In the ass
jumped on Clegg about it.



Boone is a Back Bench
waste of time

[Vicky.]

He's right, though. If you have a problem with gay marriage then you're an absolute moron and a homophobic bigot.

I fail to see what was so wrong in Nick Clegg's comment.

Nothing wrong with his comment. But its stupid to try and withdraw it.

[arista]

So? The world isn't exactly fluffy candy land, unless you're still in you're single digits. Morons and bigots in this world get told exactly what they are on here and that's how it should be.


Yes but as Clegg is Deputy PM
he ends up attacking other MP's
he was fast to remove it.

[Redway]

Nothing wrong with his comment. But its stupid to try and withdraw it.

Exactly. It's annoying having people speaking the truth and then going on to back down and all...

[Redway]

Yes but as Clegg is Deputy PM
he ends up attacking other MP's
he was fast to remove it.

Let him attack other MPs. If anything I'm annoyed that he backed down instead of putting these people straight. That's what you get in a PC gone mad world.

[arista]

Nothing wrong with his comment. But its stupid to try and withdraw it.


Boone PM demanded Clegg must Stand down.



It was Wise to Withdraw it
but a shame it went to the media first.

[arista]

Let him attack other MPs. If anything I'm annoyed that he backed down instead of putting these people straight. That's what you get in a PC gone mad world.

No Conservative -LibDem Power
stops many attacks on other MPs.


He thought his words were fine
then other MPs contacted the Press
and made this into a mess


This is Normal in Westminster

[arista]

Just another example of Clegg's spinelessness.



Dezzy I would Love to see you
in a 2 Party Power

[Redway]

No Conservative -LibDem Power
stops many attacks on other MPs.


He thought his words were fine
then other MPs contacted the Press
and made this into a mess


This is Normal in Westminster

Well let him break that trend then. If you do have a problem with gay marriage then you're a bigot. Fact. End.

I don't buy all this PC bollocks which states that you have to tread on eggshells around bigots and idiots because of "freedom of speech". The freedom of speech that they would take away from the second party if they ever got the chance.

[arista]

Well let him break that trend then. If you do have a problem with gay marriage then you're a bigot. Fact. End.

I don't buy all this PC bollocks which states that you have to tread on eggshells around bigots and idiots because of "freedom of speech". The freedom of speech that they would take away from the second party if they ever got the chance.



Hang On
LibDems can bring a General Election Early if they Walk away
or create a internal war,
and Lib dems love this one chance at being in power (or half power)


There are Loads of Vicars that say Gays should not Marry


You are Right its not a Fluffy Nation

[arista]

Was just on Ch4News


Michael Crick reporting
said look what it did to Brown when he called
Duffy a Bigot.

[Kizzy]

Was just on Ch4News


Michael Crick reporting
said look what it did to Brown when he called
Duffy a Bigot.

Wondered when someone would bring that up.....ffs

[Livia]

Withdrawing a comment is like trying to unring a bell. It can't be done and what's more it makes you look foolish and weak. Politicians (in all parties) do it all the time against better advice. Clegg should have the courage of his convictions and stand by his comment.

[arista]

"Clegg should have the courage"


No he wants to say in Power until 2015

[Livia]

"Clegg should have the courage"


No he wants to say in Power until 2015

Yes... by any means possible. I don't think there's a LibDem in the country that would vote for him again so he should make the most of it.

[Kizzy]

Well like camerons 'calm down dear' patronising comment to Angela Eagle lets hope it gets forgotten about eh?

[Kizzy]

Yes... by any means possible. I don't think there's a LibDem in the country that would vote for him again so he should make the most of it.

Wrong! :hugesmile:

[joeysteele]

For the first time since August 2010, I actually feel a bit sorry for Clegg on this one.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2012/9/11/192651/default/v1/telegraph-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2012/9/11/192661/default/v1/mail-1-329x437.jpg


Of Course he never said it,
it was in the 1st press issue preview with it written
then they rushed to get a 2nd Press preview out
with its Danger Word "bigot" changed to "some people"



Its now being debated until 10AM
on the Radio 5 phone in with MP Boone

[fruit_cake]

It drives me mad that were all supposed to be offended by everything these days. Everybody is supposed to be offended by everything. Maybe the truth is that they probably are bigots, and that Clegg is right on this occasion. That however seems to be irrelevant and all that's important is that he said a naughty word and needs his botty smacked.

[arista]

Also debated on TV now
on Ch5 Wright Stiuff

After the break

[the truth]

Yes it is.


But then he Attacks the loads of MPs
that a into God and Crap.

sounds like youre bigoted against religious people. hypocrisy.

[Livia]

Some people have an issue with gay marriage on religious grounds. If people are going to say their beliefs are wrong and that they should be swept aside for your own beliefs that surely would make you as bigoted at them? From my experience of fending off angry people contacting their MPs about the gay marriage issue, they almost all believe that churches will be forced into marrying gay people.

Not everyone agrees with gay marriage. Some people - including some gay people - think that a civil partnership, giving them the same rights as married couples, is enough. What is the difference between getting married in a register office, and having a civil partnership in a register office?

[arista]

sounds like youre bigoted against religious people. hypocrisy.




Yes I will lay my cards on the Table for you


There Is No God

[arista]

Some people have an issue with gay marriage on religious grounds. If people are going to say their beliefs are wrong and that they should be swept aside for your own beliefs that surely would make you as bigoted at them? From my experience of fending off angry people contacting their MPs about the gay marriage issue, they almost all believe that churches will be forced into marrying gay people. Not everyone agrees with gay marriage. Some people - including some gay people - think that a civil partnership, giving them the same rights as married couples, is enough. What is the difference between getting married in a register office, and having a civil partnership in a register office?


Yes thats what got MP Boone angry
he says Clegg needs to say it was a cock up.
Ref :Radio 5 debate

[Livia]

Yes thats what got MP Boone angry
he says Clegg needs to say it was a cock up.
Ref :Radio 5 debate

It was a cock-up. Clegg didn't write the speech and he didn't write the press release that quoted the speech, I'd lay a month's salary on that. However, his name is on it, the buck stops with him. He should stand by what he put his name to, if he withdraws the comment it just makes him look indecisive and stupid.

[arista]

It was a cock-up. Clegg didn't write the speech and he didn't write the press release that quoted the speech, I'd lay a month's salary on that. However, his name is on it, the buck stops with him. He should stand by what he put his name to, if he withdraws the comment it just makes him look indecisive and stupid.


Yes his cocky Jr, did

[MTVN]

Nick is just being diplomatic

[lostalex]

He looks like an idiot with no balls for backtracking. The Lib Dems and Nick Clegg are just reinforcing what everyone already thinks of them, they don't have the balls to stand up for ANY of their beliefs. Pathetic.

[Kizzy]

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill...

[Livia]

He looks like an idiot with no balls for backtracking. The Lib Dems and Nick Clegg are just reinforcing what everyone already thinks of them, they don't have the balls to stand up for ANY of their beliefs. Pathetic.

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

[lostalex]

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

brilliant quote. It's nice to see someone who's not afraid to see the similarities between the civil rights movement for blacks in line with the civil rights movement for gays today. It is exactly the same. All of the same arguments used against gay marriage are identical to the arguments used against interracial marriage.

[the truth]

Withdrawing a comment is like trying to unring a bell. It can't be done and what's more it makes you look foolish and weak. Politicians (in all parties) do it all the time against better advice. Clegg should have the courage of his convictions and stand by his comment.

Wrong again. Being truthful is always the best way. However some people dont always say things exactly how they mean them and the words come out wrong. Its arrogant not to ever try and retract and rewrite something you didnt quite mean. everyone makes mistakes, especially when you have many political enemies hurling endless questions at you, then every word is scrutinised by the worlds media and twisted by knaves. its more humble decent and honest to admit it. Rather than pretending to be impervious to error, which is of course an arrogant lie.

[the truth]

He looks like an idiot with no balls for backtracking. The Lib Dems and Nick Clegg are just reinforcing what everyone already thinks of them, they don't have the balls to stand up for ANY of their beliefs. Pathetic.

so you think its right to call anyone who disagrees with you, a bigot? You think caling millions of people bigots is the way to show you have balls and win elections? Grow up.

[lostalex]

Wrong again. Being truthful is always the best way. However some people dont always say things exactly how they mean them and the words come out wrong. Its arrogant not to ever try and retract and rewrite something you didnt quite mean. everyone makes mistakes, especially when you have many political enemies hurling endless questions at you, then every word is scrutinised by the worlds media and twisted by knaves. its more humble decent and honest to admit it. Rather than pretending to be impervious to error, which is of course an arrogant lie.



so which part of Clegg's original comments were untruthful? What he said was spot on. What he said was absolutely in line with the Lib Dem ideology about gay marriage. He didn't retract the statement because it's not what Lib Dem's believe, he retracted it because of the backlash. that is cowardly and wrong.

His apology is the mistake, not his original statement.

[the truth]

It drives me mad that were all supposed to be offended by everything these days. Everybody is supposed to be offended by everything. Maybe the truth is that they probably are bigots, and that Clegg is right on this occasion. That however seems to be irrelevant and all that's important is that he said a naughty word and needs his botty smacked.

I agree you do seem to easily offended as do many neo-liberals on here who call anyone who disagrees with them bigots. when in fact it is their total intolerance to any other opinions that makes them bigotted.

[Livia]

I'll ask again. The truth, please stop quoting my posts. I have nothing to say to you and I have no interest at all in anything you may have to say to me.

[fruit_cake]

I agree you do seem to easily offended as do many neo-liberals on here who call anyone who disagrees with them bigots. when in fact it is their total intolerance to any other opinions that makes them bigotted.

well maybe I agree with them and I call myself a bigot, how would you know :suspect:

[lostalex]

I'll ask again. The truth, please stop quoting my posts. I have nothing to say to you and I have no interest at all in anything you may have to say to me.

I remember when you used to say that to me Livia :P let's give him a chance, perhaps he has an open mind and we can educate him. He is clearly misogynist and homophobic, but still, talking is better than nothing.

[fruit_cake]

I agree you do seem to easily offended as do many neo-liberals on here who call anyone who disagrees with them bigots. when in fact it is their total intolerance to any other opinions that makes them bigotted.

I also resent being labelled a 'neo-liberal' I don't even know what that is. You are very quick to judge someone you don't know at all there Mr

[Livia]

I remember when you used to say that to me Livia :P let's give him a chance, perhaps he has an open mind and we can educate him. He is clearly misogynist and homophobic, but still, talking is better than nothing.

Actually, I always had quite a soft spot for you even when you were being a git. This person has insulted me too deeply and too often, so no... let's leave him where he lays.

[Kizzy]

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

Livia if you post untruths people will call you out on them, whether you respond or not is up to you.
The lib dems have as part of the coalition agreement shelved some of their policies yes...
To form a joint government that was essential the conservatives were obliged to do the same.
If it were not for the liberal ministers and whisle blowers the tories would be getting away with much more than they are currently we both know that.

And for the record nobody knows who coined that phrase, it and variants of it are very inspiring though so I see it's relevance to the topic.

[Livia]

No, I don't wish to debate your tenuous take on politics, Kizzy.

And whoever said it first, it wasn't Plan B LOL...

[Kizzy]

No, I don't wish to debate your tenuous take on politics, Kizzy.

And whoever said it first, it wasn't Plan B LOL...

Fine...
Did I say it was? If it takes this inspiring message to a new audience then who cares?
LOL

[lostalex]

so you think its right to call anyone who disagrees with you, a bigot? You think caling millions of people bigots is the way to show you have balls and win elections? Grow up.

no, if someone disagree's with me that the smashing pumpkins are the greatest band ever, i don't call them a bigot.

but i think anyone who would deny a group of people their civil rights can be accurately described as a bigot.

Eigther you believe everyone deserves equal rights, or you don't. and those that don't ARE bigots.

Eigther everyone is equal under the law or they are not. And you cannot claim to believe in equality if you believe in segregation in ANY way.

Opposing gay marriage is bigotry because it means you believe there should be one set of laws for str8 people and another set of laws for gay people. That is segregation, that is bigotry.

[Livia]

Fine...
Did I say it was? If it takes this inspiring message to a new audience then who cares?
LOL

Plan B has misquoted it so doesn't make as much sense as Malcolm X's version, but if you're happy to pass on a watered down version... like you say, who cares?

Putting you back on ignore now. Bye.

[Kizzy]

Plan B has misquoted it so doesn't make as much sense as Malcolm X's version, but if you're happy to pass on a watered down version... like you say, who cares?

Putting you back on ignore now. Bye.

:conf: It makes perfect sense livia and as I said Malcolm X only quoted someone else, lets not get all pedantic.
Bye :wavey:

[lostalex]

:conf: It makes perfect sense livia and as I said Malcolm X only quoted someone else, lets not get all pedantic.
Bye :wavey:

it was pedantic of you to bring it up to begin with.

[Kizzy]

it was pedantic of you to bring it up to begin with.

No it was not, it was an observation alex... To labour the same point is the definition of pedantic to me. Feel free to discuss it for the next few hours if you wish...

[lostalex]

No it was not, it was an observation alex... To labour the same point is the definition of pedantic to me. Feel free to discuss it for the next few hours if you wish...

squabbling over a malcom X quote in a thread about Nick Clegg's gay marriage statement, yes that was pedantic. The thread is about the LIb Dems and Gay marriage. You're the one making pedantic posts about Livia's Malcom X post, which the sentiment of Livia's quote was on topic, you're trying to debate who first said it, is in fact pedantic. Who care's who said something similar first? she was quoting Malcolm X and it was an accurate quote, so you were the one being pedantic.

[the truth]

no, if someone disagree's with me that the smashing pumpkins are the greatest band ever, i don't call them a bigot.

but i think anyone who would deny a group of people their civil rights can be accurately described as a bigot.

Eigther you believe everyone deserves equal rights, or you don't. and those that don't ARE bigots.

Eigther everyone is equal under the law or they are not. And you cannot claim to believe in equality if you believe in segregation in ANY way.

Opposing gay marriage is bigotry because it means you believe there should be one set of laws for str8 people and another set of laws for gay people. That is segregation, that is bigotry.

Firstly gay couples have ALL of the exact same legal rights as married couples
the only argument here is whether all churches are legally bound to carry out gay marriages. so that argument over legal rights is over.

If some people believe it is wrong for men and men to have homosexual sex, thats their opinion, which they are entitled to, even if that opinion is offensive to you or anyone else. If they verbally or physically abuse gay people, then that is bigotry. You need to sort these issues out in your own mind before ranting at people calling them bigots simply because they have different opinions. To wrongly call someone a bigot is in fact bigotry too. So its a fine line. I have read quotes on here stating, straight men should be burned, now that is bigotry. So its important we all know where the line is being opinion and bigotry or law breaking. If we can find that line and respect it, without resorting to abuse and real bigotry , then I assure you this issue will move forward far quicker.

as it stands gay couples have all the legal rights now as hetresexual couples and I for one am delighted with that.

[Kizzy]

squabbling over a malcom X quote in a thread about Nick Clegg's gay marriage statement, yes that was pedantic. The thread is about the LIb Dems and Gay marriage. You're the one making pedantic posts about Livia's Malcom X post, which the sentiment of Livia's quote was on topic, you're trying to debate who first said it, is in fact pedantic. Who care's who said something similar first? she was quoting Malcolm X and it was an accurate quote, so you were the one being pedantic.

Oh... Do you think she didn't know it was in my sig?...Theres an interesting thought thanks alex!
I have made my point in this thread and will only discuss issues surrounding the topic from now on. Cheers mate.

[lostalex]

Gay couples have ALL of the exact same legal rights as married couples
the only argument here is whether all churches are legally bound to carry out gay marriages.

yea, and black people had the same water and rode on the same buses that white people had...segregation is not okay though.

Separate is NOT equal.

[lostalex]

Oh... Do you think she didn't know it was in my sig?...Theres an interesting thought thanks alex!
I have made my point in this thread and will only discuss issues surrounding the topic from now on. Cheers mate.

I never noticed it in your sig Kizzy literally until you just said something. Even through out this entire conversation, i didn't notice it. and i still don't know who "plan B" is.

[Kizzy]

I never noticed it in your sig Kizzy literally until you just said something. Even through out this entire conversation, i didn't notice it. and i still don't know who "plan B" is.

Alex you poor deprived child...here
http://www.time4planb.co.uk/lyrics/lost-my-way-ft-raekwon

UZTazJVrg-Y

[the truth]

yea, and black people had the same water and rode on the same buses that white people had...segregation is not okay though.

Separate is NOT equal.

Black people were maimed , murdered, didnt have the right to vote to eat in restaurnats, to travel on buses etc etc to comapre their nightmarish plight in america, africa and other nations is a joke. gay people do not have any of this discrimination at all. its insulting and untrue to even compare the 2 situations

[lostalex]

Black people were maimed , murdered, didnt have the right to vote to eat in restaurnats, to travel on buses etc etc to comapre their nightmarish plight in america, africa and other nations is a joke. gay people do not have any of this discrimination at all. its insulting and untrue to even compare the 2 situations

and gay people have suffered all of those same indignities and abuses. do you deny that? It is absolutely true to compare the 2 situations, the only differnce being that black people have enjoyed equal rights for many decades now. Gay people still suffer these indignities and abuses without any protection under the law. There is no more institutional discrimination against blacks, there is absolutely still institutional discrimination against gays. So you are right that they cannot be compared anymore, gay people are absolutely suffering more than blacks. but historically, in the context of segregation, it is absolutely a fair comparison.

Blacks have had it easy compared to gays though. There can be no doubt that gays have been far more oppressed than blacks.

[the truth]

and gay people have suffered all of those same indignities and abuses. do you deny that? It is absolutely true to compare the 2 situations, the only differnce being that black people have enjoyed equal rights for many decades now. Gay people still suffer these indignities and abuses without any protection under the law. There is no more institutional discrimination against blacks, there is absolutely still institutional discrimination against gays. So you are right that they cannot be compared anymore, gay people are absolutely suffering more than blacks. but historically, in the context of segregation, it is absolutely a fair comparison.

Blacks have had it easy compared to gays though. There can be no doubt that gays have been far more oppressed than blacks.

Gay people have all the rights of hetrosexual people. No gays are being burned, no gays are banned from any restaurants, buses, its illegal to abuse gay people physically or verbally. Married gay couples have the same legal rights as married hetrosexual couples. so your argument is about 50 years out of date.

Lets forget creating hysterical diviision just to create a false argument. lets celebrate the fact gay people now have equal legal rights and live in peace and harmony

Meanwhile youre talent and energy needs now to change to other areas of discrimination, inequality and corruption that causes enormous pain , misery and deaths of thousands in our own nation

corrupt rules banning the NHS from claiming on private health insurance to cover their multi billion health care costs

the fact the has the highest abortion rates of all western democracies

the fact we are stil entangled in illegal wars

the fact prisoners are treated far better and have more money spent on them per head than do law abding tax paying old age pensioners

the fact the gap between rich and poor is bigger now than it was in the days of charles dickens oliver twist. this means in england/uk europe and across the world, we see even greater deprivation , starvation, exploitation than ever before.

the fact disabled people cannot even get access still to most buildings, including churches, shops, council buildings, museums, pubs, public toilets etc
this means they cant even attend weddings and funerals in comfort. pathetic.
how on earth do we expect them to find jobs and live full lives?

the fact 10000s times more is spent on weopanry and war per person, than is spent on feeding and clothing the starving.

and the fact male suicides worldwide are at their highest ever and the gap isgrowing, mainly on the back of industrial collapse, biased marital and family law, resulting in men / fathers losing their homes, their wives their children, their live savings all at the same time

Its hard to acept when the fight has gone on, but gay people have won their fight, they have equal rights, celebrate it, enjoy it, now move on and use your talent and energy for the other crazy imbalances in the world! you have the talent, use it! Theres nothing so tragic as wasted talent!:blush:

[lostalex]

^this post proves that your username is meant to be ironic.

[armand.kay]

No, I don't wish to debate your tenuous take on politics, Kizzy.

And whoever said it first, it wasn't Plan B LOL...
I herd it first on americas next top model :hmph:.

[Livia]

I never noticed it in your sig Kizzy literally until you just said something. Even through out this entire conversation, i didn't notice it. and i still don't know who "plan B" is.

For the sake of clarity... I hadn't noticed it either because I have that poster on ignore. It was only that someone pointed out to me that she'd quoted my post I noticed a version of the quote was in her sig. Coincidence... although I'm sure it'll be viewed as something other than that.

[the truth]

^this post proves that your username is meant to be ironic.

it does nothing of the kind, your response ignores al the issues , all the points and instead chooses to be shallow and petty. Very disappointing, profoundly insincere.:nono:

[Redway]

What Alex says.

Anyway, I'm off to have a joint. I'll deal with the truth's B.S. tomorrow.

[the truth]

What Alex says. the truth doesn't understand anything about civil rights and uses that nono smilry every time someone quotes the guy.

This sentence means nothing!

[Redway]

This sentence means nothing!

Funny that as the last word there describes profoundly what's in your head.

[joeysteele]

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

Absolutely Livia,gutless and untrustworthy is exactly the words to use as to them now.

[Kizzy]

For the sake of clarity... I hadn't noticed it either because I have that poster on ignore. It was only that someone pointed out to me that she'd quoted my post I noticed a version of the quote was in her sig. Coincidence... although I'm sure it'll be viewed as something other than that.

Ok, I will accept it was a coincidence. If you have me on ignore why would you care if I had quoted you or not?
I quite often agree with you, it's telling you only chose to respond to me on the one post I challenged your views.

[Kizzy]

Absolutely Livia,gutless and untrustworthy is exactly the words to use as to them now.

:conf: didn't you say you felt sorry for Nick Clegg earlier?...

[the truth]

What Alex says.

Anyway, I'm off to have a joint. I'll deal with the truth's B.S. tomorrow.

get off the drugs, get a job, stop being so abusive and hypocritical and maybe youll one day find the truth

[the truth]

Funny that as the last word there describes profoundly what's in your head.

the drugs are clearly affecting you, badly

[lostalex]

get off the drugs, get a job, stop being so abusive and hypocritical and maybe youll one day find the truth

HEY! we're here to discuss a topic, not attack each other or make judgements about each other's personal lives. calm down.

[the truth]

HEY!, we're here to discuss a topic, not attack each other. calm down.

youve attacked mer personally , youve also name called people. the poster was showing off he is a drug taker, Ive a perfect right to say how pathetic that is. it is in fact illegal after all.

[lostalex]

youve attacked mer personally , youve also name called people. the poster was showing off he is a drug taker, Ive a perfect right to say how pathetic that is. it is in fact illegal after all.

i have not made any judgements on your personal life or attacked you personally at all. I don't know anything about you personally and i don't have any interest in your personal life.

[the truth]

i have not made any judgements on your personal life or attacked you personally at all. I don't know anything about you personally and i don't have any interest in your personal life.

You come on here and call everyone with a different opinion on gay marriage a bigot, that is offensive and bigoted in itself, youve also acused me of being untruthful.

as for this particular incident, this poster is promoting and showing off illegal drug use and yet you say nothing. time to to re-set your moral compass.

[lostalex]

You come on here and call everyone with a different opinion on gay marriage a bigot, that is offensive and bigoted in itself, youve also acused me of being untruthful.

as for this particular incident, this poster is promoting and showing off illegal drug use and yet you say nothing. time to to re-set your moral compass.


So you're saying smoking weed is worse than you being a hate-filled misogynist bigot? Sorry i disagree.

And calling you a bigot has nothing to do with your personal life, it's based purely on your comments on this website. It is in no way related to anything you do in your personal life, because as i've already said, i know NOTHING about what you do outside of this forum.

[Kizzy]

So you're saying smoking weed is worse than you being a hate-filled misogynist bigot? Sorry i disagree.

And calling you a bigot has nothing to do with your personal life, it's based purely on your comments on this website. It is in no way related to anything you do in your personal life, because as i've already said, i know NOTHING about what you do outside of this forum.

Did you listen to the song Alex, what did you think? :)

[joeysteele]

:conf: didn't you say you felt sorry for Nick Clegg earlier?...

I said for the first time since August 2010,I actuallt felt a bit sorry for him in the context of being caught out with this comment he made, just as I also felt sorry for Gordon Brown when he made his bigot gaffe comment during the 2010 election campaign as to a voter.

That doesn't though mean I have gained a single gramme of respect for the Lib Dems under Clegg as to whatever their policies are now and aslo as to the extreme things they have supported fully in Parliament.
Coalition Govt should be aboput moderation and compromise not near total surrender of your polices and principles.

I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades.

As Livia said, they have thrown out near all they said they stood for and really believed in, to hold a miserable few Ministerial positions and to be able to say they had a say in power for 4 or 5 years.
Not everything they say is wrong and everyone makes errors and gaffes when making off the cuff comments or even in speeches at times.

I can have sympathy for that as to Clegg on this issue in this thread,however for his and his party's total betrayal of the trust that was put in them from those who trusted them and voted for them,I will treat them and talk about them in the only way I believe right after that and that is with total contempt towards them.

[Kizzy]

I said for the first time since August 2010,I actuallt felt a bit sorry for him in the context of being caught out with this comment he made, just as I also felt sorry for Gordon Brown when he made his bigot gaffe comment during the 2010 election campaign as to a voter.

That doesn't though mean I have gained a single gramme of respect for the Lib Dems under Clegg as to whatever their policies are now and aslo as to the extreme things they have supported fully in Parliament.
Coalition Govt should be aboput moderation and compromise not near total surrender of your polices and principles.

I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades.

As Livia said, they have thrown out near all they said they stood for and really believed in, to hold a miserable few Ministerial positions and to be able to say they had a say in power for 4 or 5 years.
Not everything they say is wrong and everyone makes errors and gaffes when making off the cuff comments or even in speeches at times.

I can have sympathy for that as to Clegg on this issue in this thread,however for his and his party's total betrayal of the trust that was put in them from those who trusted them and voted for them,I will treat them and talk about them in the only way I believe right after that and that is with total contempt towards them.

Well i'm sorry you feel that way joey, personally I believe it is those lib dem ministers that prevent the tories from riding roughshod all over this country even worse than they have currently.

[arista]

"I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades."

But Everyone knew LibDem could Never Get Full Power.
so you wasted your Vote.

[Kizzy]

"I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades."

But Everyone knew LibDem could Never Get Full Power.
so you wasted your Vote.

How can it be a wasted vote if their ministers are sitting in the cabinet?...

[arista]

Yes Kizzy but not Full Power
like he thought.


So Education you Pay.

[Kizzy]

Yes Kizzy but not Full Power
like he thought.


So Education you Pay.

So? If it stops the destruction of the country then yes some policies fall by the wayside...It's for the greater good.

[arista]

Yes I knew it would be a Conservative - LibDem power
and its great that they set 5 year elections as the standard.

Dave and Nick
doing good.

[joeysteele]

"I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades."

But Everyone knew LibDem could Never Get Full Power.
so you wasted your Vote.

I know that and agree they couldn't have.
It was my first vote in a General election, I could have never voted for Labour in 2010,no way.
I liked the Conservatives plan for the reduction of the deficit but was deeply suspicious as to them on the NHS, knowing a good few people who really relied on the NHS.
I was totally against the raising by at least doubling tuition fees so I couldn't bring myself to vote Conservative either.

The Lib Dems hounded students where I was, stating if the Conservatives got an overall majority,they would at least double tuition fees, that they would increase VAT, also make damaging cuts in the first year that would threaten any economic recovery and maybe take the UK back into recession.

Those 3 issues coupled with the promise and even signed pledge on one of them, that in no circumstances would Lib Dem MP's ever support those measures in Parliament won them my vote.
It was clear all through the election campaign from the polls that no party was likely to get any kind of working overall majority so I put my trust and faith in the Lib Dems to deliver those gurantees and promises.
I and some other students even had a face to face meeting with a Lib Dem MP who re-inforced those promises, yet that MP supported when the polices came to the the vote in Parliament,the cuts in the first year,the raising of tuition fees, not by doubling them but by trebling them and also the VAT increase.

The coalition has had it's chance for me,I really have no idea where politics goes from here, over 30 years we had firstly strong,(in the sense of good overall majorities),Conservative Govt for 18 years, we then had 13 unbroken years of strong Labour Govt. Both made massive errors and failed to set up the stability of good and fair Govt for all the Nation.

We now come to and have had a Coalition Govt that is failing on near all it set out to do.
Too many costly reforms, virtually no compassion to the weakest in society,pushing policies out, then having to re-think as to them again and further modifying them as opposition looms against them.
We are in a double dip recession that could last longer than the original one,yet all we get from the 2 parties in the Coalition is no change needed.

This is all likely going to see a Labour Govt with a majority win the next elction again, the Conservatives in my view, have no way of getting more than 36% of the votes in an election, the Lib Dems will be lucky to get 15%.they have certainly lost for a good while, at least 8% of the people who voted for them in 2010.
Students won't trust the Conservatives after the trebling of the fees, neither will they trust the Lib Dems for their long list of broken promises.

You are right though, I did waste my vote in 2010 on the Lib Dems, I know absolutely loads of others who feel the same.
Obviously,I will wait until the next election to see what are the results of these policies and reforms,the one for sure I will not do is vote for the Lib Dems again.
I am not a party political person, I see the good and bad in all parties,I believe in consensus politics and there are MPs in all parties that are consensus politicians,that is what I hoped for from this Coalition but they have been worse than the previous Conservative then Labour Govts of the last 30+ years put together,in my opinion anyway.

Oh gosh, just seen the length of this post, I better stop now.

[Vicky.]

"I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades."

But Everyone knew LibDem could Never Get Full Power.
so you wasted your Vote.

If everyone thought like that then no party would ever get a vote except for conservatives or labour. I actually thought libdems stood the best chance in a long time at the last election...yes I still didnt expect them to get a big enough vote to hold sole power, but it could have happened if everyone who could vote...did. One day it might happen that another party gets in, and I hope it does, but it will never happen while people think that no-one else has a chance at all so dont bother voting for them.

[arista]

"Oh gosh, just seen the length of this post, I better stop now. "


No its great you post so much.
Well done

[arista]

If everyone thought like that then no party would ever get a vote except for conservatives or labour. I actually thought libdems stood the best chance in a long time at the last election...yes I still didnt expect them to get a big enough vote to hold sole power, but it could have happened if everyone who could vote...did. One day it might happen that another party gets in, and I hope it does, but it will never happen while people think that no-one else has a chance at all so dont bother voting for them.


Vicky no enough people are Voting
so LibDems can only be in a joint deal.

The current voting style
means they can not get enough to take full power.


And if you were watching the TV debates
Nick did very well
so I do not blame you Vicky.

[the truth]

So you're saying smoking weed is worse than you being a hate-filled misogynist bigot? Sorry i disagree.

And calling you a bigot has nothing to do with your personal life, it's based purely on your comments on this website. It is in no way related to anything you do in your personal life, because as i've already said, i know NOTHING about what you do outside of this forum.

Greetings bigot. any one who dare disagree with the radical left wing agenda you have is labelled a sexist bullying bigot. youre against free speech, you care not at all about issues relating to other oppressed minorities, such as the disabled, the elderly, the abuse in care, the corruption in the health isnurance industry, the millions of aborted babies making us the abortion capital of europe, the eillegal wars we are involved in, corprate corruption etc...You say nothing...But you go wild about gay people getting marriage rights, which they already have? yet you ignore and fail to celebrate that fact?

you also ignore the FACT drugs leads to more drugs. You assume this poster who shows off about taking drugs, is smoking weed, you also wrongly assume soft drugs (if this is what hes taking) doesnt lead to harder drugs, which factually is totally wrong. a correlation has been proved so again you are plain wrong. Your narrow sexist male hating, agenda is utterly transparent. this is probably why yoyu come on here to find like minded bigots with narrow minds and narrow agendas. Disgraceful.

[Kizzy]

Greetings bigot. any one who dare disagree with the radical left wing agenda you have is labelled a sexist bullying bigot. youre against free speech, you care not at all about issues relating to other oppressed minorities, such as the disabled, the elderly, the abuse in care, the corruption in the health isnurance industry, the millions of aborted babies making us the abortion capital of europe, the eillegal wars we are involved in, corprate corruption etc...You say nothing...But you go wild about gay people getting marriage rights, which they already have? yet you ignore and fail to celebrate that fact?

you also ignore the FACT drugs leads to more drugs. You assume this poster who shows off about taking drugs, is smoking weed, you also wrongly assume soft drugs (if this is what hes taking) doesnt lead to harder drugs, which factually is totally wrong. a correlation has been proved so again you are plain wrong. Your narrow sexist male hating, agenda is utterly transparent. this is probably why yoyu come on here to find like minded bigots with narrow minds and narrow agendas. Disgraceful.

Can you stick to the point in discussion please? Start another thread about your war on drugs and crime.

[Kizzy]

If everyone thought like that then no party would ever get a vote except for conservatives or labour. I actually thought libdems stood the best chance in a long time at the last election...yes I still didnt expect them to get a big enough vote to hold sole power, but it could have happened if everyone who could vote...did. One day it might happen that another party gets in, and I hope it does, but it will never happen while people think that no-one else has a chance at all so dont bother voting for them.

Spot on vicky, if everyone shuffled allong with the crowd listening to the same worn phrases churned out by the same two parties for millenia how would anything ever change?

[arista]

But Kizzy the Voting System has Not Changed.

[Redway]

get off the drugs, get a job, stop being so abusive and hypocritical and maybe youll one day find the truth
Oh no sir I work. I don't think you do. I think you'll find that cannabis does you a lot less harm than cigarettes ... but I smoke those as well so surely the sheer thought of that must horrify you? Go wrap yourself up in candy floss and suck on a lollipop.

What I choose to do in my personal time is my choice and mine alone. That's not for you to decide.

[the truth]

Im not remotely interested in some workless junkie justifying a junkie lifestyle, pathetic, go to work

as for justice in the UK, you lot need to pay close attention to the hillsborough case and the systemic corruption in the sheffiled police, the media (the news corporation yet again), maggie thatchers pitiful response to it and the failure too of the emergency services

23 years later and finally we get a grain of truth

if you lot really care about justice, abuse, corruption, discrimination in modern britain, this is a good place to start!

[the truth]

Can you stick to the point in discussion please? Start another thread about your war on drugs and crime.

I can say anything I like its a free country. I feel these issues are all inter related. the governments budget and the medias attention is far too focused on trivial issues like fox hunting and gay marriage (when gay people have all the legal rights now so that topic is over) these non issues are simply used by the powers that be as a smokescreen to distract the public from what really matters, really corruption. sadly you all fall for it.

its time to move the focus onto far far more serious immediate issues....care abuse, nhs patient abuse, illegal wars, drugs rife across the UK, abuse of pensioners, system police corruption such as hillsborough, corruption at the top which bars the nhs from claiming against private insurance police to pay their multi billion care bills for caring for people at home, sexism against fathers, male suicide rates, highest abortion rates in europe etc

these are massive issues are far far more important than relatively trivial nonsense like fox hunting or gay marriage , which has already been dealt with

[joeysteele]

But Kizzy the Voting System has Not Changed.

A really strong point and in my opinion the Lib Dems are going to find themselves back to pre-alliance in 1983 numbers as to having MPs after the next election.
The argument for a change in the voting system will be likely laid aside for some time,decades probably by all others.

Something else the Lib Dems under Clegg could not deliver, even with the best chance ever of insisting it was part of the Coalition agreement.
They should have insisted on AV being brought in anyway and then having a referendum on other forms of PR before or on the same day as the next general election.
After this Coalition, few will listen to the Lib Dems now as to this issue in my view.

The Conservatives now know how to play the Coalition game, had they had just a few more seats,then with the DUP, they likely would not have needed the Lib Dems at all.
Even if Labour miss out on an overall majority next time too, parties like Plaid Cymru,the SDLP in Northern Ireland and likely even the SNP, would not be likely to support a Conservative Govt but could make life easier for a Labour one.

I can see the Lib Dems out in the cold of politics for a really long time again now after their performance in this Coalition,Clegg will likely run off to a well paid postion in Europe anyway after the next election, he could even lose his seat in Sheffield if things stay much as they are now.

The person,in my view, who really got the Lib Dems to a position of strength was Charles Kennedy, it is Clegg who has blown the chance of going much further from that or even having the Lib Dems being in the same position again for a long time to come.

[Redway]

Im not remotely interested in some workless junkie justifying a junkie lifestyle, pathetic, go to work

as for justice in the UK, you lot need to pay close attention to the hillsborough case and the systemic corruption in the sheffiled police, the media (the news corporation yet again), maggie thatchers pitiful response to it and the failure too of the emergency services

23 years later and finally we get a grain of truth

if you lot really care about justice, abuse, corruption, discrimination in modern britain, this is a good place to start!
I'd rather be a junkie than some semi-literate bigot whose arguing and logic skills would make Paris Hilton look like a barrister.

[arista]

"A really strong point and in my opinion the Lib Dems are going to find themselves back to pre-alliance in 1983 numbers as to having MPs after the next election.
The argument for a change in the voting system will be likely laid aside for some time,decades probably by all others."

Yes Joey
way back in 1974
J.Thorpe demanded that
(He is now Viewed as Corrupt after 1979, but alive).

Clegg wanted the Change but
he lost the votes.


So we are Stuck with this Old
Conservative or Labour choice.

Or like last time Conservative- LibDem again.
if Labour mess up again.


Anything is possible
in the 24/7 News world

[the truth]

I'd rather be a junkie than some semi-literate bigot whose arguing and logic skills would make Paris Hilton look like a barrister.

ok go take drugs if thats your ambition! Ill go to work instead:wavey:

[the truth]

A really strong point and in my opinion the Lib Dems are going to find themselves back to pre-alliance in 1983 numbers as to having MPs after the next election.
The argument for a change in the voting system will be likely laid aside for some time,decades probably by all others.

Something else the Lib Dems under Clegg could not deliver, even with the best chance ever of insisting it was part of the Coalition agreement.
They should have insisted on AV being brought in anyway and then having a referendum on other forms of PR before or on the same day as the next general election.
After this Coalition, few will listen to the Lib Dems now as to this issue in my view.

The Conservatives now know how to play the Coalition game, had they had just a few more seats,then with the DUP, they likely would not have needed the Lib Dems at all.
Even if Labour miss out on an overall majority next time too, parties like Plaid Cymru,the SDLP in Northern Ireland and likely even the SNP, would not be likely to support a Conservative Govt but could make life easier for a Labour one.

I can see the Lib Dems out in the cold of politics for a really long time again now after their performance in this Coalition,Clegg will likely run off to a well paid postion in Europe anyway after the next election, he could even lose his seat in Sheffield if things stay much as they are now.

The person,in my view, who really got the Lib Dems to a position of strength was Charles Kennedy, it is Clegg who has blown the chance of going much further from that or even having the Lib Dems being in the same position again for a long time to come.

liberals have made many mistakes, clearly the failure to support the poorer students was one of the worst. But failing to call people bigots , is nowhere near the top of the list. Funny how youre allowed to stray into other points by the radical liberals on this site, yet Im not because Im not a radical liberal. such tedious hypocrisy

[the truth]

Oh no sir I work. I don't think you do. I think you'll find that cannabis does you a lot less harm than cigarettes ... but I smoke those as well so surely the sheer thought of that must horrify you? Go wrap yourself up in candy floss and suck on a lollipop.

What I choose to do in my personal time is my choice and mine alone. That's not for you to decide.

wow paris hilton iq is way out of your bigotted league:sleep:

[joeysteele]

liberals have made many mistakes, clearly the failure to support the poorer students was one of the worst. But failing to call people bigots , is nowhere near the top of the list. Funny how youre allowed to stray into other points by the radical liberals on this site, yet Im not because Im not a radical liberal. such tedious hypocrisy

Well, it's a politically themed thread made by arista who has conversed with me on my points so clearly he has no problem with anything or direction I am going in.
I have great respect for arista and would not in any way set out to offend him on a thread he made.

In fact I made the point initially in my first post only relating to Cleggs comment.
The thread may have 'opened up' into a wider political debate but still concerned with the Lib Dems and their position under Clegg which in turn leads into their expected electoral success in the future, which although a storm in a teacup as far as I am concerned, Clegg's bigot comment will not be of any assistance to his party.

If I may respond to your latter part of the post above, I actually agree with some of what you have said on this thread in part,however you may find you would likely get a lot further if you didn't resort to insulting people like Redway for instance,who also makes valid points as an equal member and should not have to be insulted because of anything he may or may not do personally.
He is a good guy and doesn't deserve that in any way at all,just my opinion, you have given me yours though so now you have mine.

[the truth]

Well, it's a politically themed thread made by arista who has conversed with me on my points so clearly he has no problem with anything or direction I am going in.
I have great respect for arista and would not in any way set out to offend him on a thread he made.

In fact I made the point initially in my first post only relating to Cleggs comment.
The thread may have 'opened up' into a wider political debate but still concerned with the Lib Dems and their position under Clegg which in turn leads into their expected electoral success in the future, which although a storm in a teacup as far as I am concerned, Clegg's bigot comment will not be of any assistance to his party.

If I may respond to your latter part of the post above, I actually agree with some of what you have said on this thread in part,however you may find you would likely get a lot further if you didn't resort to insulting people like Redway for instance,who also makes valid points as an equal member and should not have to be insulted because of anything he may or may not do personally.
He is a good guy and doesn't deserve that in any way at all,just my opinion, you have given me yours though so now you have mine.

a fair and reasonable response , fair play

[joeysteele]

a fair and reasonable response , fair play

Thank you for saying that 'the truth'.