View Full Version : cop killer - should we arm every police officer ? (poll)
waterhog
19-09-2012, 06:38 AM
cop killer - should we arm every police officer - poem ? 19.09.12
this man has issues,
it will be made into a thriller,
while already being investigated,
the switch made him a cop killer.
is it as bad as it looks,
or is the press full of hype,
was this premeditated,
were the officers lured for the snipe.
a fugitive on the run,
dose the plan make him a boffin,
i admit the 2 officers were young,
if they were older and experienced, would it be the coffin.
is he sick,
or dose he have a chip on his shoulder,
all will be revealed,
when we look into his history folder.
the gun debate will run,
purely because 2 have been harmed,
lots will want change,
and will call for all officers to be armed.
this is a one off,
but guns will now focal,
do you think all officers should be armed,
my views are "no" and i am being vocal.
( i put this poem together on hearing about the 2 lady officers in the news at present.
just wondered what every one else s views are on arming the all police ?)
arista
19-09-2012, 06:46 AM
No
He used a Grenade as well.
The Error was sending two Women
thesheriff443
19-09-2012, 06:54 AM
No
He used a Grenade as well.
The Error was sending two Women
thats just being silly two male policemen would of faced the same fate!
Shaun
19-09-2012, 07:03 AM
oh arista f/
Kizzy
19-09-2012, 07:10 AM
No, as tragic as that was one crazy person is not an excuse to create a malitia.
joeysteele
19-09-2012, 07:50 AM
No, definitely not in my view, that would be a bad move.
Marcus.
19-09-2012, 07:53 AM
no
Livia
19-09-2012, 09:21 AM
More coppers than you realise are armed already, which is a shame; they are not supposed to be a a militia, but society is forcing their hand. Tragically, we had the usual knee-jerk reaction after Dunblane and guns were banned so that even our Olympic shooting team had to train abroad. However, criminals seem to have no problem getting guns. So... proper sportsman are not allowed firearms and the only two sections of society in possession of guns is the police and the criminals. If you're going to have guns banned, it's got to be a proper ban. If you're found to be in possession of a firearm, life imprisonment, no parole.
AnnieK
19-09-2012, 09:23 AM
No, arming officers will just encourage more criminals to have more guns etc themselves...
Very sad day here in Manchester....many more questions need anwering like why he was on bail in the first place etc but even armed I don't think the officers stood a chance as they were ambushed....
RIP
Kizzy
19-09-2012, 09:30 AM
The police do not want to be armed either, but I can sympathise with the relatives of police officers who have been shot for their views.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2205389/Dale-Cregan-Brother-PC-David-Rathband-widower-PC-Sharon-Beshenivsky-demand-officers-armed.html?openGraphAuthor=%2Fhome%2Fsearch.html%3 Fs%3D%26authornamef%3DJack%2BDoyle
Cherie
19-09-2012, 10:51 AM
There are situations where a firearm might pose as a deterrent ...ie in last years riots, but in this case the police officers were ambushed so even if they were armed I doubt they would have had time to use them, and as for sending two women ..., the outcome with two male officers would have been exactly the same. What got me was the woman who was interviewed in the news last night who said she wouldnt let her son play out as residents were aware Creegan was living locally...:conf: wanted man ...50,000 reward and nobody even anonymously reported him....:conf:
fruit_cake
19-09-2012, 10:59 AM
perhaps arming the police might mean more illegal guns get into circulation, seems to me it could be a bit of a Pandora's Box situation
lostalex
19-09-2012, 11:05 AM
I think the UK should arm cops. It wouldn't make it like the USA which i know everyone here is scared of.
Canada and Australia arm their cops, and they don't have the gun problems that the USA has.
thesheriff443
19-09-2012, 11:27 AM
More coppers than you realise are armed already, which is a shame; they are not supposed to be a a militia, but society is forcing their hand. Tragically, we had the usual knee-jerk reaction after Dunblane and guns were banned so that even our Olympic shooting team had to train abroad. However, criminals seem to have no problem getting guns. So... proper sportsman are not allowed firearms and the only two sections of society in possession of guns is the police and the criminals. If you're going to have guns banned, it's got to be a proper ban. If you're found to be in possession of a firearm, life imprisonment, no parole.
there will always be ways to get guns or even make them!
people can turn a replica gun into a killing machine,
to lock some up for ever for carrying a gun when someone can torture, rape and kill a child and still get released is a silly idea in my opinion!
we need the whole of the justice system changed so that the punishment meets the crime!
if you set out to take another persons life then i think you should lose the right for yourself to live.
Livia
19-09-2012, 11:48 AM
there will always be ways to get guns or even make them!
people can turn a replica gun into a killing machine,
to lock some up for ever for carrying a gun when someone can torture, rape and kill a child and still get released is a silly idea in my opinion!
we need the whole of the justice system changed so that the punishment meets the crime!
if you set out to take another persons life then i think you should lose the right for yourself to live.
All you need to turn a replica gun into a firearm is a firing pin and a drill. I know that. Just because it's easy to do it shouldn't be accepted that it will be done.
I agree that the justice system is not hard enough to rapist and killers, sadly the woolly-thinkers start to worry about the rights of the criminal rather than the rights of the victim almost as soon as a crime's taken place... but really that's nt the issue here.
I think a zero tolerance with firearms that was actually carried out would be an effective deterrent against gun crime. Like I said before, you cannot legally own a handgun in the UK, so if you're not a copper or a soldier, there is only one reason you would have a handgun and that is to commit a crime. Bang 'em up, and you'd only have to do it to half a dozen to prove you were serious and gun crime would inevitably drop.
Livia
19-09-2012, 11:53 AM
I think the UK should arm cops. It wouldn't make it like the USA which i know everyone here is scared of.
Canada and Australia arm their cops, and they don't have the gun problems that the USA has.
I think the difference here sadly is that the public do not respect our police any more, and the hands of the police have been bound with red tape by the liberal worriers.
GiRTh
19-09-2012, 12:03 PM
No
He used a Grenade as well.
The Error was sending two WomenLMAO
I'm amazed you almost got away with this comment. To think, you saw this story and one of the the first things you thought was that if they'd have sent blokes they'd have survived. Do you think the men are better trained than the women or something? Amazing.
Anyway, on topic, I think they should arm police for situations like this where they are going into a property without knowing what's inside but not for the everyday beat copper.
Scarlett.
19-09-2012, 04:10 PM
Arm the police, the criminals will only arm themselves, but with bigger guns.
Guns arent really an issue in the UK, there's no need for police to have them.
Locke.
19-09-2012, 04:11 PM
Every policeman/woman that is on the streets should be armed.
arista
19-09-2012, 04:17 PM
LMAO I'm amazed you almost got away with this comment. To think, you saw this story and one of the the first things you thought was that if they'd have sent blokes they'd have survived. Do you think the men are better trained than the women or something? Amazing. Anyway, on topic, I think they should arm police for situations like this where they are going into a property without knowing what's inside but not for the everyday beat copper.
On the Army Fighting Frontline - No women.
Men was what he wanted to kill, I think.
He was fully armed so
two male coppers would have died - Unless they were the Armed crew.
arista
19-09-2012, 04:19 PM
Every policeman/woman that is on the streets should be armed.
No
this is not America.
Ch4News said yesterday
"should the Police be on Higher Alert?
as they knew he was around.
Mystic Mock
19-09-2012, 04:37 PM
Yes but I would only allow them to pull the gun out if the other person has a weapon aswell.
Also I would not then have the civilians getting hold of them aswell.
No, arming officers will just encourage more criminals to have more guns etc themselves...
The police do not want to be armed either
perhaps arming the police might mean more illegal guns get into circulation
Yeah, once firearms are issued to "bobbies", the latter will become targets for every "two-bit hoodlum" who wants a rep and a handgun ..... :eek:
I think a zero tolerance with firearms that was actually carried out would be an effective deterrent against gun crime. Like I said before, you cannot legally own a handgun in the UK, so if you're not a copper or a soldier, there is only one reason you would have a handgun and that is to commit a crime. Bang 'em up, and you'd only have to do it to half a dozen to prove you were serious and gun crime would inevitably drop.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/YoungPeople/CrimeAndJustice/TypesOfCrime/DG_10027654
What counts as gun crime?
Gun crime includes any crime that involves the use of a gun or firearm. This includes:
•a murder where the victim was shot
•any situation where a gun was fired, whether anyone was injured or not
•a robbery or burglary where the thieves carried a gun as a weapon
•intimidating people with a firearm
•carrying a gun that is banned, like a handgun
•carrying or using an imitation gun
Is there really a gun problem in the UK?
Incidents involving guns make up less than one per cent of the total number of crimes committed in the UK every year.
What is worrying is the relatively large number of young people who say they carry real or fake handguns to protect themselves. In fact you’re more likely to be a victim of gun crime if you carry a gun yourself.
Gun laws
To tackle gun crime, sentences for people convicted of crimes involving a gun have been made a lot tougher.
Anyone who is found guilty of possessing an illegal firearm faces a minimum sentence of five years. Also, you now have to be at least 17 years old before you can possess an air rifle.
It’s also now illegal to sell realistic imitation guns, even if they can’t be turned into weapons that fire real ammunition.
That's a lot tougher than the firearms case I dealt with as a juror some years ago - the defendant in that case got 2.5 years for firing an imitation handgun at his wife.
:pipe:
lostalex
19-09-2012, 05:47 PM
Incidents involving guns make up less than one per cent of the total number of crimes committed in the UK every year.
What percentage is it in the US? What percentage is it in Canada? What percentage is it in Australia? You arn't comparing those numbers to countries that do arm officers, so we have no context.
You arn't giving us anything to compare it to.
flamingGalah!
19-09-2012, 05:49 PM
Yes! A lot of criminals carry guns so the police should too!
As has been said Australian police are armed & there is no gun problem there, the police are given more respect than the police over here...
What percentage is it in the US? What percentage is it in Canada? What percentage is it in Australia? You arn't comparing those numbers to countries that do arm officers, so we have no context.
You arn't giving us anything to compare it to.
With less than 5% of the world's population, the United States is home to roughly 35–50 per cent of the world's civilian-owned guns.
The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people.
But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people.
England and Wales has a firearm murder rate of 0.07 per 100,000 people.
Mystic Mock
19-09-2012, 07:49 PM
Police need guns because if the criminal has got a Knife or a Baseball Bat wouldn't you rather the Police have a Gun or a stick thing that wouldn't harm a Fly?
Livia
19-09-2012, 07:51 PM
Yes! A lot of criminals carry guns so the police should too!
As has been said Australian police are armed & there is no gun problem there, the police are given more respect than the police over here...
And therein lies one of the biggest problems, I think.
lostalex
19-09-2012, 07:51 PM
With less than 5% of the world's population, the United States is home to roughly 35–50 per cent of the world's civilian-owned guns.
The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people.
But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people.
England and Wales has a firearm murder rate of 0.07 per 100,000 people.
you didn't answer my question. what percentage of crimes are committed with a gun in the US, in Canada, and in Australia? you said the UK has only 1% of crimes commited with a gun, but you havn't given us any numbers to compare it to.
None of the figures you just listed have anything to do with the question i asked you.
thesheriff443
19-09-2012, 07:56 PM
All you need to turn a replica gun into a firearm is a firing pin and a drill. I know that. Just because it's easy to do it shouldn't be accepted that it will be done.
I agree that the justice system is not hard enough to rapist and killers, sadly the woolly-thinkers start to worry about the rights of the criminal rather than the rights of the victim almost as soon as a crime's taken place... but really that's nt the issue here.
I think a zero tolerance with firearms that was actually carried out would be an effective deterrent against gun crime. Like I said before, you cannot legally own a handgun in the UK, so if you're not a copper or a soldier, there is only one reason you would have a handgun and that is to commit a crime. Bang 'em up, and you'd only have to do it to half a dozen to prove you were serious and gun crime would inevitably drop.
banging people up for life for having a gun on them would not change the facts
its people that kill they only use the gun to do it!
far more people are being killed with knifes
you didn't answer my question. what percentage of crimes are committed with a gun in the US, in Canada, and in Australia? you said the UK has only 1% of crimes commited with a gun, but you havn't given us any numbers to compare it to.
None of the figures you just listed have anything to do with the question i asked you.
The comparative firearm murder rate is, nonetheless, indicative ..... :pipe:
lostalex
19-09-2012, 07:58 PM
The comparative firearm murder rate is, nonetheless, indicative ..... :pipe:
indicative of what?
Murderers in the US arn't getting their guns from the cops.
No, it's unnecessary and the police themselves don't even want to be armed, 82% of them are against it
I also think we've had enough cases of the few armed police we have shooting people unlawfully so as not to want every single police officer in the country to have a gun
lostalex
19-09-2012, 08:03 PM
No, it's unnecessary and the police themselves don't even want to be armed, 82% of them are against it
I also think we've had enough cases of the few armed police we have shooting people unlawfully so as not to want every single police officer in the country to have a gun
but recent events/revelations have shown that cops in the UK don't need guns to cause unnecessary death, do they. Well i shouldn't say recent, the Met has quite a history of it...
Mystic Mock
19-09-2012, 08:05 PM
No, it's unnecessary and the police themselves don't even want to be armed, 82% of them are against it
I also think we've had enough cases of the few armed police we have shooting people unlawfully so as not to want every single police officer in the country to have a gun
Tbf that's because The Police aren't trained properly in those situations imo.
Scarlett.
19-09-2012, 08:46 PM
but recent events/revelations have shown that cops in the UK don't need guns to cause unnecessary death, do they. Well i shouldn't say recent, the Met has quite a history of it...
The London Metropolitan police are the most thuggish brutish cops in the country, but they are policing a city that is as equally thuggish and brutish, they're hardly comparable to the rest of the UK.
the truth
19-09-2012, 08:49 PM
ive give the majority of cops on the front line, taser guns
indicative of what?
Murderers in the US arn't getting their guns from the cops.
They may well be - just recently :
According to the NY Post, an NYPD cop was busted last night on charges of breaking into his colleagues’ lockers in their station house and stealing guns that were then sold on the street.
Police say Nicholas Mina, 31, stole four 9mm firearms from the seventh-floor locker room at the Ninth Precinct in the East Village.
http://globalgrind.com/news/nicholas-mina-stop-and-frisk-police-nypd-cop-busted-selling-stolen-guns-details#ixzz26xbs72Rn
A Greenwood police cruiser was broken into Sunday and several guns were stolen.
The case is being investigated by the Greenwood County Sheriff's Office since the police cruiser belonged to the Greenwood Police Department, said Maj. William Kinney, with the Greenwood County Sheriff's Office.
"It's very dangerous, very dangerous," Kinney said. "These weapons are specialized for a particular unit and they are dangerous weapons."
According to a police report, an unmarked 2007 Ford Explorer, belonging to the department's narcotics unit, was the vehicle that was broken into. The report stated that the Explorer's doors were left unlocked. There were no signs of forced entry into the vehicle.
A pistol, a shotgun, a bulletproof vest, two thousand rounds of ammunition, several magazines for the pistol and a black patrol bag were stolen from the car.
"Any gun on the street in the hands of a criminal poses a threat," Kinney said.
http://www.independentmail.com/news/2012/sep/18/officers-looking-guns-stolen-greenwood-police-crui/
BETHANY, Oklahoma -
A couple weeks ago, some guns were stolen in Logan County out of a car belonging to an undercover law enforcement officer. Now police say at least one weapon somehow got into the hands of a known gang member.
Bethany police say a home alarm went off in the 7100 block of N.W. 18th Street, alerting officers to a burglary in progress. Within four minutes, an officer arrived to find Latricicia Vaughn and Byron Rhodes sitting in a car backed in the driveway across the street.
Vaughn took off running and was soon caught. Rhodes was pulled from the car and taken into custody.
"That's one of our big thrills of police officers is catching criminals while they are committing crimes because that simply doesn't happen that often," Bethany Police Chief Phil Cole said.
Upon searching the car, the officer then discovered a gun under the seat. The serial number matched a gun stolen from the agent in Logan County.
"Even more exciting, we were able to recover a gun stolen from a Law Enforcement officer here in the state," Cole said.
Further investigation sent officers to another house where they served a search warrant in hopes of finding other weapons that were stolen from the officer.
There they found a sawed off shot gun, and another gun stolen from Pennsylvania.
Police say Rhodes is a known gang member and they are looking into if he used that stolen Logan county gun in recent crimes.
"He was possibly wanted in some drive-by shootings in Oklahoma City," Chief Cole said.
Currently Rhodes and Vaughn are facing charges of possession of a firearm while in the commission of a felony, attempted burglary, and knowing concealing stolen property.
http://www.newson6.com/story/19577723/bethany-police-find-undercover-officers-stolen-gun-during-burglary-investigation
etc, etc .....
the truth
19-09-2012, 11:24 PM
With less than 5% of the world's population, the United States is home to roughly 35–50 per cent of the world's civilian-owned guns.
The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people.
But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people.
England and Wales has a firearm murder rate of 0.07 per 100,000 people.
omah thats great work well done. ignore lost alex questions, he doesnt provide any evidence, he doesnt answer questions and he ignores whatever data you show him. in short he is wasting your time, so dont fall for his nonsense:wavey:
indicative of what?
The US firearm murder rate is 300 times that of England and Wales ..... since nearly everyone in the US has a gun and nearly everyone in England an Wales doesn't, I'd say that's indicative of gun ownership creating murder .....
the truth
19-09-2012, 11:40 PM
The US firearm murder rate is 300 times that of England and Wales ..... since nearly everyone in the US has a gun and nearly everyone in England an Wales doesn't, I'd say that's indicative of gun ownership creating murder .....
100% agree.:blush: lets hope enough intellgent people finally reach this obvious conclusion
Gillian-73
20-09-2012, 10:53 AM
No
He used a Grenade as well.
The Error was sending two Women
How so? Male police officers wouldn't have been killed? Of course they would have. I don't really get what you mean here?
arista
20-09-2012, 11:17 AM
Armed Officers are Male.
Sure they would have also died.
Scarlett.
20-09-2012, 11:20 AM
but it was a routine call out that turned out to be an ambush, there was no need for armed police at that point.
Gillian-73
20-09-2012, 11:25 AM
Armed Officers are Male.
Sure they would have also died.
They believed it to be a routine call so even if male officers had have gone they wouldn't have been armed, in this case
Kizzy
20-09-2012, 11:25 AM
Left wing policies?... I would just love to know what they are and why they tie the hands of the police in the UK?
I don't believe personally it has thatmuch to do with respect, there are more armed response units due to an increase in gang culture and organised crime and terrorism.
Day to day bobbies though should never be armed, you cannot demand respect...
It is good that the national diploma in public services allows young people to see the difficulties faced in modern policing, and encourages youths to follow this career path.
There are many 'fly on the wall' series following officers on various patrols in various roles. Again this helps the public connect with the police, seeing the problems, decisions,dramas and dilemmas faced by them everyday.
This was an unavoidable tradgedy, and not an argument for policy change or arming uniformed officers.
Kizzy
20-09-2012, 11:27 AM
Armed Officers are Male.
Sure they would have also died.
Quit while you are behind arista..
arista
20-09-2012, 11:58 AM
but it was a routine call out that turned out to be an ambush, there was no need for armed police at that point.
Yes and Ch4News pointed out
they should have been on better Alert.
the truth
20-09-2012, 03:36 PM
some cops are armed anyway if the situation is deemed dangerous enough. even if they were armed its likely they would have been shot before theyd had a chance to react. bullet proof jackets and headgear is also something that needs to be addressed in more depth.
the less illegal guns we have too the better off society will be on the whole.
i would however allow all cops, taser guns
Pyramid*
20-09-2012, 03:52 PM
No - not as standard - we should live in a society which doesn't require such drastic measures.
It is about time though that the penalities for being in possession of illegal firearms was enough of a penalty to be a deterrent. Given the way our justice system is such a farce - that's highly unlikely to ever come to fruition.
Pyramid*
20-09-2012, 03:53 PM
some cops are armed anyway if the situation is deemed dangerous enough. even if they were armed its likely they would have been shot before theyd had a chance to react. bullet proof jackets and headgear is also something that needs to be addressed in more depth.
the less illegal guns we have too the better off society will be on the whole.
i would however allow all cops, taser guns
That's a pretty good point there - I agree.
arista
14-02-2024, 01:59 AM
[PC Sharon Beshenivsky was left to die
on the pavement after she was shot
in travel agency robbery 'masterminded'
by pensioner, 75, who fled the UK
and was on the run for 15 years, court told
PC Sharon Beshinevsky, 38, was shot dead
during a robbery in Bradford in 2005
Piran Ditta Khan, 75,
who organised the raid,
is now on trial for murder]
The Evil Criminals in 2005
were told it was £100,000
but they left the shop with just £5,000
and Shot dead the female cop.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13078211/Organiser-robbery-PC-Beshenivsky-shot-dead-trial.html
https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-124e9b7e-7aa3-45fc-ad95-78c4cfcec1d1.png
Yet another horrendous crime by a bladdy foreign ‘visitor’
Life was so much safer in the 60’s
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
arista
10-05-2024, 02:37 PM
Sharon Beshenivsky:
[ Life term for ringleader's part in PC's murder.]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-68986221
Redway
10-05-2024, 02:43 PM
Half of 2012 was devoted to me being shamed for “trying to fit in”. I remember this era of TiBB, and I remember waterhog’s overall oddness.
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