Two US States legalise cannabis use.....

[Ammi]

Colorado and Washington have become the first US states to legalise the possession and sale of cannabis for recreational use.

The ruling is in defiance of federal law, setting the stage for a possible showdown with the Obama administration.

But another ballot measure to remove criminal penalties for personal possession and cultivation of recreational cannabis was defeated in Oregon, where significantly less money and campaign organisation was devoted to the cause.

Supporters of a Colorado constitutional amendment legalising cannabis were the first to declare victory, and opponents conceded defeat, after returns showed the measure garnering nearly 53 per cent of the vote versus 47 per cent against.

"Colorado will no longer have laws that steer people toward using alcohol, and adults will be free to use marijuana instead if that is what they prefer. And we will be better off as a society because of it," said Mason Tvert, co-director of the Colorado pro-legalisation campaign.

The Drug Policy Alliance, a national advocacy group that backed the initiatives, said the outcome in Washington and Colorado reflected growing national support for liberalised cannabis laws, citing a Gallup poll last year that found 50 per cent of Americans favoured making it legal, against 46 per cent who were opposed.

The outcomes in Colorado and Washington, which already have laws on the books legalising cannabis for medical purposes, put both states in further conflict with the federal government, which classifies cannabis as an illegal narcotic

The US Department of Justice reacted to the measure's passage in Colorado by saying its enforcement policies remain unchanged. "We are reviewing the ballot initiative and have no additional comment at this time."

Separately, medical cannabis measures were on the ballot in three other states, including Massachusetts, where CNN reported that voters approved an initiative to allow cannabis for medicinal reasons.

Supporters there issued a statement declaring victory for what they described as "the safest medical marijuana law in the country".

Oregon voters rejected a measure to legalise recreational use of cannabis. In Massachusetts voters approved use of medical cannabis, while Arkansas voters rejected it.

In Montana, voters were leaning toward affirming a 2011 law that would scale back a 2004 initiative legalising medical marijuana.

California, whose voters rejected a measure to legalise recreational use in 2010, was the first state to allow medical use in 1996. It is already permitted in 17 states and the District of Columbia.

A measure that would have made Arkansas the first state in the South to legalise cannabis for medical purposes appeared headed for defeat by 51 per cent to 49 per cent with about 80 per cent of the vote tallied.

Under the measures in Colorado and Washington, personal possession of up to an ounce (28.5g) of cannabis would be legal for anyone at least 21 years of age. They also will permit cannabis to be legally sold and taxed at state-licensed outlets in a system modeled after a regime many states have in place for alcohol sales.

Oregon's initiative would have legalised state-licensed sales, as well as possession and cultivation of unlimited amounts of cannabis for personal recreational use.

The Colorado measure will limit cultivation to six plants per person, but "grow-your-own" cannabis would be still be banned altogether in Washington state

[Mystic Mock]

Well i've never seen that much of a problem with Cannabis anyway so I think these two states have made the right decision.

[Ninastar]

Just stupid

[Lee.]

I ain't ever getting into a drugs debate in here again... last time I ended going off on one, calked somebody bad names and had to ban myself for about a year. :bored:

But yeah well done Colorado etc :)

[Marcus.]

never going there then

[Ammi]

I ain't ever getting into a drugs debate in here again... last time I ended going off on one, calked somebody bad names and had to ban myself for about a year. :bored:

But yeah well done Colorado etc :)

LOL..I don't remember that Lee...when was it...?

[Vanessa]

i don't agree with it, but good luck to them. A brave decision.

[Ramsay]

Finally, about time!
Hopefully the rest of America will see the advantage of having it legal and then UK/Ireland will follow suit

[Saph]

It wont do anymore harm than smoking or alcohol so..

[Vanessa]

But from the lighter drugs you can go to the heavier ones. I've seen it happen. :(

[Lee.]

LOL..I don't remember that Lee...when was it...?

Hahahahaha... ages ago, 2009

[Ammi]

Hahahahaha... ages ago, 2009


..Ahaa..that was the year I joined..I missed all the fun...

..I can't imagine you 'going off on one' Lee...

[Lee.]

..Ahaa..that was the year I joined..I missed all the fun...

..I can't imagine you 'going off on one' Lee...

Oh I can go off on one! :laugh:

At the time I had a few good reasons to be anti drugs, and sadly after the events of this year, I have even more reason to be :sad:

[Ammi]

...aww..:hug:..yes, it is hard not to get emotional about something which has personally touched your life...I'm sorry about that...

[Mystic Mock]

Im sorry for your loss Lee.

[Kizzy]

I'm with you lee, I'm very anti drugs.
known 2 very good friends develop acute psychosis and paranoid schizophrenia after years of using cannabis.
Coincidence?...
Can't google any stats on here, but i'm guessing there is some strong evidence to support a correlation.

[Ninastar]

I'm with you lee, I'm very anti drugs.
known 2 very good friends develop acute psychosis and paranoid schizophrenia after years of using cannabis.
Coincidence?...
Can't google any stats on here, but i'm guessing there is some strong evidence to support a correlation.

there's a very high correlation...

(no pun intended)

It's just made me think that there's going to be tons more roads accidents now. Drink driving is bad enough but this will definitely add to it

[Shaun]

People who smoke pot would smoke it with or without the state's permission - all this does is regulate it, make government money out of it and stop wasting police time on chasing it up. Good news :pipe:

[Vanessa]

I'm with you lee, I'm very anti drugs.
known 2 very good friends develop acute psychosis and paranoid schizophrenia after years of using cannabis.
Coincidence?...
Can't google any stats on here, but i'm guessing there is some strong evidence to support a correlation.

I agree from personal experience. It's true. :(

[AnnieK]

People who smoke pot would smoke it with or without the state's permission - all this does is regulate it, make government money out of it and stop wasting police time on chasing it up. Good news :pipe:

This...very true.
I do believe pot can have some medicinal benefits too.

[Tom4784]

It's a good decision, There's less health risks involved with Marijuana then there is with Alcohol or cigarettes and this will help bring more money in instead of it potentially going to a criminal element. There's very little reason not to legalise it really.

[Kizzy]

This...very true.
I do believe pot can have some medicinal benefits too.

Theres no denying that some strains do benefit those with muscle/ joint problems.
Others are said to lead to the advancement of any underlying psychological conditions.

[Vicky.]

Finally, about time!
Hopefully the rest of America will see the advantage of having it legal and then UK/Ireland will follow suit

This.

[Brother Leon]

Miami or L.A following would be epic.

[Nedusa]

So where does this leave the US in its "War on Drugs", does this mean some drugs are ok and others are a menace. Who decides this and when ?

Shades of Hypocrisy creeping in here methinks....!!!

[Tom4784]

Theres no denying that some strains do benefit those with muscle/ joint problems.
Others are said to lead to the advancement of any underlying psychological conditions.

Few vices come with no health risks, Marijuana's risks are probably among the least damning. If you're worried about the health angle then you are better off going after smoking and drinking since they will kill far more people then Marijuana ever will.

[InOne]

I wonder if they'll end up having "Little Amsterdam" districts.

[Stu]

Oh a Cannabis thread. I better post something long and correct.

The controlled, nerd tastic "what's in my dope and what does it feel like rubbed against my nose under a bright light?" Marijuana culture that America is cultivating also means you can deduce which pot will turn you into a nutter and which won't.

The increasing psychosis theme that permeates Cannabis news stories is occuring because the growhouse trend of guerilla growing by unscrupulous dealers who don't care about the product is leading to a huge influx of strains that are high in the racey, spacey THC whilst the other important component of the plant CBD is being whittled out to near zero per cent levels.

CBD is an anti anxiety chemical that mediates the effects of THC and protects the brain from it. It is highly medicinal and medical strains that are high in it kick ass. I hate high THC strains. I can smoke like a G but they drive me mental at times too. Mind you I have lots of friends who have nothing better to do but sell me good stuff that's relaxing.

I've been stoned since about 2007. It's been brilliant. I've quit pretty much everything else.

[BBfanUSA]

I actually like this idea. BUT the US Federal Gov't's Food and Drug Administration isn't too happy about this. I dunno if this will be overturned to be no tho. The public said yes.

Also in unrelated news both Seattle and Denver are now in a never ending thick fog.

[iRyan]

But from the lighter drugs you can go to the heavier ones. I've seen it happen. :(

Yes this can happen, but the majority of the time it doesn't. I know tons of people who are regular marijuana users but wouldn't dare touch any hard drugs.

I think it's great Marijuana is legal in 2 states now, I actually didn't expect it to happen so soon. I think people are finally beginning to realize the facts: marijuana is far less harmful than alcohol and tobacco.

[Redway]

Wise news. Cigarettes and alcohol are far more dangerous than cannabis so going by some of the logic on this thread, should we ban those as well? :bored:

[reece(:]

The Rastafarians will be foaming at the mouth.

[Nedusa]

Oh a Cannabis thread. I better post something long and correct.

The controlled, nerd tastic "what's in my dope and what does it feel like rubbed against my nose under a bright light?" Marijuana culture that America is cultivating also means you can deduce which pot will turn you into a nutter and which won't.

The increasing psychosis theme that permeates Cannabis news stories is occuring because the growhouse trend of guerilla growing by unscrupulous dealers who don't care about the product is leading to a huge influx of strains that are high in the racey, spacey THC whilst the other important component of the plant CBD is being whittled out to near zero per cent levels.

CBD is an anti anxiety chemical that mediates the effects of THC and protects the brain from it. It is highly medicinal and medical strains that are high in it kick ass. I hate high THC strains. I can smoke like a G but they drive me mental at times too. Mind you I have lots of friends who have nothing better to do but sell me good stuff that's relaxing.

I've been stoned since about 2007. It's been brilliant. I've quit pretty much everything else.

I agree Cannabis is great in moderation but be careful as one day in the future years possibly decades from now you will have a prolonged break from smoking weed ( for whatever reason) and after you have gone through the inevitable withdrawal, you will sit down and take stock of things. You will and I can promise you this look round and wonder where the ***** your life went..!!!

You will possibly wonder where all your plans for the future went..!!!

And sadly you will like thousands of other people wonder was it such a good idea to live in a Foggy, Dopey dreamlike state and waste all the good years of your youth.

Sorry to get so heavy but long term heavy cannabis use is a fools paradise...!!!!

[SharkAttack]

Few vices come with no health risks, Marijuana's risks are probably among the least damning. If you're worried about the health angle then you are better off going after smoking and drinking since they will kill far more people then Marijuana ever will.

Still have those carcinogens that you're smoking in a cig. It's a cleaner cig, really, with added benefits.

As an ex-smoker, I'd suggest brownie form, and in moderation(whatever that is). ;)

<moves back to Seattle>

[SharkAttack]

I agree Cannabis is great in moderation but be careful as one day in the future years possibly decades from now you will have a prolonged break from smoking weed ( for whatever reason) and after you have gone through the inevitable withdrawal, you will sit down and take stock of things. You will and I can promise you this look round and wonder where the ***** your life went..!!!

You will possibly wonder where all your plans for the future went..!!!

And sadly you will like thousands of other people wonder was it such a good idea to live in a Foggy, Dopey dreamlike state and waste all the good years of your youth.

Sorry to get so heavy but long term heavy cannabis use is a fools paradise...!!!!

I tend to agree with this, Nedusa (the bolded part mostly). I like to be clean of anything for several months at a time, and just sort of take in life. Good stuff. :dance: It's OK to indulge from time to time, IMHO. Medicinally, it does work. My 60+ year-old in-laws in Washington are most likely planting in their greenhouses as we speak, unless they're already harvesting. Heh. Always thought it was funny when I showed them their farm on Google Satellite maps with incredible detail and they seemed nervous. :joker:

[Stu]

I agree Cannabis is great in moderation but be careful as one day in the future years possibly decades from now you will have a prolonged break from smoking weed ( for whatever reason) and after you have gone through the inevitable withdrawal, you will sit down and take stock of things. You will and I can promise you this look round and wonder where the ***** your life went..!!!

You will possibly wonder where all your plans for the future went..!!!

And sadly you will like thousands of other people wonder was it such a good idea to live in a Foggy, Dopey dreamlike state and waste all the good years of your youth.

Sorry to get so heavy but long term heavy cannabis use is a fools paradise...!!!!
"Because everyone's story turns out like mine".

It's not for everyone but certain people can get away with being stoned all the time. Others if it wasn't for Cannabis would have their lives ruined by cheeseburgers. I live out of home, have a job, play four musical instruments, I'm in and out of film productions in the city and I do really crap poetry at a nice bar called the Lakeside every Monday night,

I'm sorry you didn't have the common sense at the time to see that dope wasn't for you. Maybe you were just a loser?

[Livia]

This is not in response to what Stu just wrote, I was going to say this anyway:

Without cannabis we'd be missing some pretty spectacular art, film, music and literature. I'm a fan and can see no reason for it to be banned in a society that allows virtually unlimited access to alcohol. I know people who have never touched any kind of narcotic and yet live their life in a rudderless haze on caffeine and self-pity.

[Nedusa]

"Because everyone's story turns out like mine".

It's not for everyone but certain people can get away with being stoned all the time. Others if it wasn't for Cannabis would have their lives ruined by cheeseburgers. I live out of home, have a job, play four musical instruments, I'm in and out of film productions in the city and I do really crap poetry at a nice bar called the Lakeside every Monday night,

I'm sorry you didn't have the common sense at the time to see that dope wasn't for you. Maybe you were just a loser?

I'm sorry....." Maybe you were just a loser" ??? That's a bit harsh don't you think , I was only trying to show that heavy cannabis users "think" everything's great in their lives until they stop using and take stock of how little they have actually achieved.

I hope your use is moderate and does not stop you from getting on with your life, others are not so fortunate and unwittingly forsake a normal life in return for living in a spaced out dreamworld....!!!!

[Shaun]

others are not so fortunate and unwittingly forsake a normal life in return for living in a spaced out dreamworld....!!!!

you could the same for people who watch Russell Howard's Good News really

[Niall]

Great news. I'm so happy that more governments around the world are finally realising that taking the drugs out of the hands of the unregulated and dangerous dealers is the way forward. :love:

[Ramsay]

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/308726_10151322237186532_973113193_n.jpg


tbh

[Kizzy]

Without laudanum we would have missed a lot too, can't see that legalised anywhere anytime soon :)
Alcohol is a major contributor to problems with antisocial behaviour, why exacerbate this by throwing those who abuse cannabis into the mix?

[Tom4784]

Cannabis doesn't bring out aggression in people though, Alcohol is pretty much more dangerous in every single way.

[Ammi]

Few vices come with no health risks, Marijuana's risks are probably among the least damning. If you're worried about the health angle then you are better off going after smoking and drinking since they will kill far more people then Marijuana ever will.

..I tend to agree with this..for the most part marijuana is renowned for having more of a positive effect...of course there are exceptions to this and there are cases of acute paranoia etc..but I feel that those cases are due to the individual's existing anxieties and not because of the marijuana itself..it may enhance them, but it's down to the 'user' to realise that it isn't for them....as in the case of all other things, not everything is right for everbobody....but that doesn't mean to say that the overall effect of something isn't more positive than negative or that marijuana should be seen as a 'cause' for a flaw which is underlying in the individual and not the substance itself....

[Kizzy]

Cannabis doesn't bring out aggression in people though, Alcohol is pretty much more dangerous in every single way.

Alcohol is only dangerous if you abuse it, and I don't believe for a second that cannabis breeds wonderful serene human beings..
In my experience those who have regularly used over time become paranoid.
We are advised not to drive or operate machinery whilst taking certain medications as they could cause drowsiness and dull reactions, would cannabis not do this?

[Jesus.]

Alcohol is only dangerous if you abuse it, and I don't believe for a second that cannabis breeds wonderful serene human beings..
In my experience those who have regularly used over time become paranoid.
We are advised not to drive or operate machinery whilst taking certain medications as they could cause drowsiness and dull reactions, would cannabis not do this?

It's all about the person, Kizzy. I used to blast it as a kid and could always function pretty well. Even if I was in a daze at times. Then as I got older and started clubbing and experimenting with other drugs, "da erb" became part of the chill out session at the end of the night/next morning.

Like any drug, prescribed or otherwise, reefer madness isn't for everyone. Of course people shouldn't be using heavy machinery if stoned, but if it was legalised, then companies would be able to better monitor their employees. My brother is in a senior position at Jaguar, and his production staff are regularly tested for drugs.

Not everyone who smokes weed turns paranoid, just like not everyone who drinks becomes an alcoholic. Different strokes, for different folks.

[Ammi]

..as would most things if they are overused/abused...extremes are never a good idea..whether it be junk food/painkillers/alcohol etc..marijuana is one of the lesser harmful substances....the 'mental' effects tend to be inherent in the 'user'..and it doesn't have the potential physical effects as alcohol or nicotine do.....

[Ammi]

It's all about the person, Kizzy. I used to blast it as a kid and could always function pretty well. Even if I was in a daze at times. Then as I got older and started clubbing and experimenting with other drugs, "da erb" became part of the chill out session at the end of the night/next morning.

Like any drug, prescribed or otherwise, reefer madness isn't for everyone. Of course people shouldn't be using heavy machinery if stoned, but if it was legalised, then companies would be able to better monitor their employees. My brother is in a senior position at Jaguar, and his production staff are regularly tested for drugs.

Not everyone who smokes weed turns paranoid, just like not everyone who drinks becomes an alcoholic. Different strokes, for different folks.

..well, a very good day to you JHC...I hope you are fit and well...'long time no see'...

[Kizzy]

..as would most things if they are overused/abused...extremes are never a good idea..whether it be junk food/painkillers/alcohol etc..marijuana is one of the lesser harmful substances....the 'mental' effects tend to be inherent in the 'user'..and it doesn't have the potential physical effects as alcohol or nicotine do.....

It's impossible to say that it is a 'lesser harmful' substance as like you say it is down essentially to tolerance levels and inherant factors, as well as the strain used.
9/10 cannabis is smoked though, therefore the user is at the same risk from carcinogens as tobacco smokers.
Hello jeebs :)
I doubt employers will welcome this change then, how will it affect them..
Will they still be able to carry out these tests for a legal substance?
One major difference is if you are an alcoholic if you stop then your organs recover, once a psychological change has occured it's irreversible.
To me that's what makes it more dangerous.

[Tom4784]

Alcohol is only dangerous if you abuse it, and I don't believe for a second that cannabis breeds wonderful serene human beings..
In my experience those who have regularly used over time become paranoid.
We are advised not to drive or operate machinery whilst taking certain medications as they could cause drowsiness and dull reactions, would cannabis not do this?

There's an air of double standards here Kizzy, Alcohol's okay because it's only dangerous if abused but Cannabis isn't acceptable even though the health risks involved are nowhere near as bad?

The people you have known have probably used bad batches, Stu's earlier post pretty much deals with the paranoia bit quite handily. It's caused by bad plants rather then the drug itself. Places in which it's legalised most likely have regulations and guidelines when it comes to growing plants correctly.

As for your last point, if that's the case then why not ban aclcohol since drink driving is a lot more prevalent. You can't really make a point against Cannabis without inadvertently making a more damning case against Alcohol.

[Kizzy]

There's an air of double standards here Kizzy, Alcohol's okay because it's only dangerous if abused but Cannabis isn't acceptable even though the health risks involved are nowhere near as bad?

The people you have known have probably used bad batches, Stu's earlier post pretty much deals with the paranoia bit quite handily. It's caused by bad plants rather then the drug itself. Places in which it's legalised most likely have regulations and guidelines when it comes to growing plants correctly.

As for your last point, if that's the case then why not ban aclcohol since drink driving is a lot more prevalent. You can't really make a point against Cannabis without inadvertently making a more damning case against Alcohol.

Nobody knows for certain how bad the potential health risks could be.
How would the authorities know the source of your cannabis ?
Your last point makes no sense to me... If I make a point against cannabis, how on earth does that affect anything in relation to alcohol consumption and the associated health and social implications of it?...
I am not advocating people drink alcohol, all I am suggesting is people don't use cannabis.
That is not a double standard.

[Tom4784]

Nobody knows for certain how bad the potential health risks could be.
How would the authorities know the source of your cannabis ?
Your last point makes no sense to me... If I make a point against cannabis, how on earth does that affect anything in relation to alcohol consumption and the associated health and social implications of it?...
I am not advocating people drink alcohol, all I am suggesting is people don't use cannabis.
That is not a double standard.

Except the health risks involved with Cannabis are widely known and they are less dangerous then cigerattes and alcohol?

In these two states growing your own cannabis is still illegal, you have to purchase it and chances are the sellers will have to adhere to guidelines and regulations involving the growing and cultivation as well as probably having a license or a permit to actually sell the product. In places where it's legal they aren't just letting anyone sell it.

You've defended alcohol by saying it's only dangerous when you abuse it but you aren't willing to extend the same train of thought to Cannabis although it's medically proven to be less harmful then Alcohol and you've tried to dream up various scenarios where it would be dangerous to partake in it when in fact if you replaced it with Alcohol it would make the situation more treacherous.

[Kizzy]

Except the health risks involved with Cannabis are widely known and they are less dangerous then cigerattes and alcohol?

In these two states growing your own cannabis is still illegal, you have to purchase it and chances are the sellers will have to adhere to guidelines and regulations involving the growing and cultivation as well as probably having a license or a permit to actually sell the product. In places where it's legal they aren't just letting anyone sell it.

You've defended alcohol by saying it's only dangerous when you abuse it but you aren't willing to extend the same train of thought to Cannabis although it's medically proven to be less harmful then Alcohol and you've tried to dream up various scenarios where it would be dangerous to partake in it when in fact if you replaced it with Alcohol it would make the situation more treacherous.

Where is the evidence to support this claim?
'The chances are' means you have no idea and are probably simply speculating.
How is it less harmful than alcohol?
I haven't dreamt anything... What situation are you referring to...replace how much alcohol with how much cannabis, over what timeframe?
Dezzy, the bottom line is I don't agree with the legalisation... What I, you or anyone think of cigarettes and alcohol won't change that.

[Tom4784]

Where is the evidence to support this claim?
'The chances are' means you have no idea and are probably simply speculating.
How is it less harmful than alcohol?
I haven't dreamt anything... What situation are you referring to...replace how much alcohol with how much cannabis, over what timeframe?
Dezzy, the bottom line is I don't agree with the legalisation... What I, you or anyone think of cigarettes and alcohol won't change that.

Hmm everywhere? Just google it, It's not considered a dangerous drug at all. In fact it's believed to help with various diseases AND have some health benefits. You can't say that for alcohol or cigarettes.

Are you seriously that ignorant that you don't know how it's less harmful then alcohol? Alcohol raises the risk of heart problems, Mouth and Throat Cancer, Cirrhosis, high blood pressure and women who drink a lot run the risk of doubling their chances of getting Breast Cancer. The only health risk you've offered up for Cannabis is that bad batches of it may cause Paranoia....

Unlike you Kizzy, I know what I'm talking about but I'm not sure of the specifics of the regulations for the two states of America so I made educated assumptions based on what I know of the laws in other places that have legalised it.

I don't know how you can justify opposing the legislation when you know next to nothing about the drug in question, it just seems incredibly ignorant.

[Kizzy]

Hmm everywhere? Just google it, It's not considered a dangerous drug at all. In fact it's believed to help with various diseases AND have some health benefits. You can't say that for alcohol or cigarettes.

Are you seriously that ignorant that you don't know how it's less harmful then alcohol? Alcohol raises the risk of heart problems, Mouth and Throat Cancer, Cirrhosis, high blood pressure and women who drink a lot run the risk of doubling their chances of getting Breast Cancer. The only health risk you've offered up for Cannabis is that bad batches of it may cause Paranoia....

Unlike you Kizzy, I know what I'm talking about but I'm not sure of the specifics of the regulations for the two states of America so I made educated assumptions based on what I know of the laws in other places that have legalised it.

I don't know how you can justify opposing the legislation when you know next to nothing about the drug in question, it just seems incredibly ignorant.
How unbelievably rude.
So i'm ignorant... and you know everything because you 'googled' and some stoner on a forum told you....lets leave the 'debate' there shall we?
Please don't insult me again, I have nothing else to say to you on this topic.

[Ramsay]

Dezzy, perfection :worship:

[Shaun]

Unlike you Kizzy, I know what I'm talking about

dean ily but calm down gurl

[Tom4784]

How unbelievably rude.
So i'm ignorant... and you know everything because you 'googled' and some stoner on a forum told you....lets leave the 'debate' there shall we?
Please don't insult me again, I have nothing else to say to you on this topic.

Calling you ignorant is an observation not an insult, It's not my fault I did research on the subject before posting in the topic while you did none. You should at least try to educate yourself on a topic before posting in SD. Also drop the 'I'm a victim wah wah' act, You tried to derail my points through ignoring half of my posts that made sense and going after minor points and deflecting as much as humanly possible to hide the fact that you know NOTHING of the subject. Don't get pissy now that you've been exposed.

I will however accept your admittance of defeat and will advise you to stay out of SD if you can't handle a debate. If you can't handle the heat then stay the hell out of the kitchen.

[Kizzy]

I taught a class on drug awareness to level 2 National Diploma student as part of my Public Services degree.
However you can think whatever you like.

[Tom4784]

I struggle to believe that given how little you've shown yourself to know in this thread but whatever you say Kizzy.

[Kizzy]

If you had offered anything in the way of proof for your claims I might have posted some stats or evidence to support my opinion.

[Tom4784]

Oh Kizzy just stop, you've already admitted defeat and this is just getting sad. I've made several good points that you've chosen to ignore so why should I make an effort when you'll ignore anything I post anyway?

[Kizzy]

Oh Kizzy just stop, you've already admitted defeat and this is just getting sad. I've made several good points that you've chosen to ignore so why should I make an effort when you'll ignore anything I post anyway?
In my opinion they were not good points..they were unsubstantiated nonsense.
When you chose to insult a forum member due to the fact they disagreed with your 'facts' you negated your whole argument dezzy.
As you said this is serious debates.. I was far from defeated, just shocked at your outburst in this section.

[Tom4784]

I don't care about anything you have to say because we're three pages in and you haven't provided a decent argument yet. You can find evidence of my claims all around since I've stated nothing that isn't already widely known.

[Kizzy]

I don't care about anything you have to say because we're three pages in and you haven't provided a decent argument yet. You can find evidence of my claims all around since I've stated nothing that isn't already widely known.


You have posted nothing of any merit, I have asked you to reveal the sources of your information and you refuse.

If I post some information for you will you please stop insulting me?
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvice/problems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabis.aspx

There you go, once again can I say I do not agree with the legalisation.

[Ammi]

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/11/alcohol_is_more_than_twice_as_harmful_as_marijuana .php

http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

http://phys.org/news157280425.html

http://blog.norml.org/2011/11/01/study-alcohol-is-%E2%80%9Cmore-than-twice-as-harmful-as-cannabis%E2%80%9D-so-explain-to-me-again-why-pot-is-illegal/

http://scienceblogs.com/scientificactivist/2007/03/23/study-finds-alcohol-and-tobacc-1/

http://scienceblogs.com/scientificactivist/2007/03/23/study-finds-alcohol-and-tobacc-1/

...alcohol is more harmful than Cannabis...that much isn't really debateable..it's just a question of whether people agree with it being legalised.....

[Niamh.]

I agree Ammi, you can't really think alcohol is fine on one hand and think cannabis is the devil on the other, it doesn't make any sense.

On a personal level, I don't know anyone who has a cannabis problem but I know plenty of people who's lives have been ruined by drink

[Ammi]

I agree Ammi, you can't really think alcohol is fine on one hand and think cannabis is the devil on the other, it doesn't make any sense.

On a personal level, I don't know anyone who has a cannabis problem but I know plenty of people who's lives have been ruined by drink

..I feel if there are any emotional or physcological issues, they are inherent in the user and could possibly be enhanced by whatever substance they choose to use...but that choice is theirs and can not be blamed on the cannabis....

[Kizzy]

I agree Ammi, you can't really think alcohol is fine on one hand and think cannabis is the devil on the other, it doesn't make any sense.

On a personal level, I don't know anyone who has a cannabis problem but I know plenty of people who's lives have been ruined by drink

Who is saying this?..
I agree with ammi, nobody is suggesting alcohol isn't dangerous.. This is a debate into whether cannabis should be legalised, they are two seperate issues.

I know people who's lives have been ruined by both.

[Niamh.]

Who is saying this?..
I agree with ammi, nobody is suggesting alcohol isn't dangerous.. This is a debate into whether cannabis should be legalised, they are two seperate issues.

I know people who's lives have been ruined by both.

No one in particular :conf:

[Kizzy]

..I feel if there are any emotional or physcological issues, they are inherent in the user and could possibly be enhanced by whatever substance they choose to use...but that choice is theirs and can not be blamed on the cannabis....

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

[Ammi]

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.


..yes thank you Kizzy..that stregthens the point that it's the user and not the substance...certain people with inherent mental issues should certainly refrain from using it...the onus is on them.....

...that saved me looking it up..well done...

[Jesus.]

Can't we just spark up some funky buddha and all get along?

http://www.celebitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/pittstoned1.jpg

[arista]

Junkies are Sloppy

[Kizzy]

Theres no denying that some strains do benefit those with muscle/ joint problems.
Others are said to lead to the advancement of any underlying psychological conditions.

I said it a while ago ammi pay attention :)

I couldn't post links on lads 3Ds at the time.
I bet you know what question is coming next... how would you know you had an underlying mental health problem?
All the people happy at the declassification, how do they know they are not about to trigger a mental time bomb?

[Ammi]

..I guess you have to stop using it if you start to suffer any sort of anxieties.....

[Kizzy]

..I guess you have to stop using it if you start to suffer any sort of anxieties.....

Bit late then, psychological changes are irreversible.

found a test, who dares do it? haha
http://www.rit.edu/ntid/saisd/surveys/cudit

[Ammi]

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

..no, Kizzy, it says in your report they are not....

..the only ones which may not be reversable are those which already existed....

[Kizzy]

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

There are changes, they just may happen at different times due to the individual. 3yrs, 6, 9...

[Ammi]

..you need to carry on highlighting down as I did, where it states these cases may be particularly vulnerable and so should avoid it....

..nothing can legislate against everything and people do have to take some responsibility for themselves....if anything i.e a prescribed drug is having any adverse effects then the obvious and logical thing would be to stop taking it......

..and if anyone who has any inherent mental issues chooses to use cannabis and ignore any issues which may arise, then I wouldn't have thought it being legal or illegal will make the slightest bit of difference.....therefore I say legalise it...it is comparitably less harmful than other legal substances...

[Tom4784]

You have posted nothing of any merit, I have asked you to reveal the sources of your information and you refuse.

If I post some information for you will you please stop insulting me?
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvice/problems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabis.aspx

There you go, once again can I say I do not agree with the legalisation.

Because the information I've posted is simply common knowledge, if you did even a little research you'd see that a lot of what I'm saying is correct. You keep going on the offensive demanding me to pretty much reference everything when really fact checking someone's argument is the job of the opposition.

I've made claims and you have not been able to refute them at all, all you've tried to do is cast aspersions in order to deflect from the fact that you haven't got an argument.

I'll give you one last chance, I'll basically compile a brief overview of all my points to see if you can counter any of them without being evasive or resorting to any of your usual tricks.

Pros of Cannabis
- Less toxic then the likes of cigarettes or Alcohol. To overdose on Cannabis you have to smoke around a thousand joints in 10 minutes to reach fatal toxic levels which is pretty much impossible to do.
- It's a powerful painkiller that (leading on from my previous point) is impossible to overdose on and the side effects CAN be lesser than that of some prescription drugs.
- There's no recorded deaths attributed to Cannabis, there's thousands every year because of smoking and Alcohol.
- Partaking in it can actually help prevent the effects of a lot of diseases. Some of which include Alzheimer's, MS, Hepatitis, Epilepsy and Depression. There's plenty of other illnesses it helps with as well.
- Less addictive and generally safer than legal substances.
- Generally calms people down so there's less chance of Anti-Social behavior then there might be if someone was drunk.

I'm pretty sure I've made more points on the subject that I can't quite remember. The only negative that's been stated about it is the psychological aspect which other members have stated is down to bad growth which in countries where it's legal it isn't as much of a problem since there's guidelines and regulations involved that prevent legitimate stores from selling bad Cannabis.

A bad batch could mess with your mind, Home made beer that's incorrectly brewed can kill you.

[Kizzy]

..you need to carry on highlighting down as I did, where it states these cases may be particularly vulnerable and so should avoid it....

..nothing can legislate against everything and people do have to take some responsibility for themselves....if anything i.e a prescribed drug is having any adverse effects then the obvious and logical thing would be to stop taking it......

..and if anyone who has any inherent mental issues chooses to use cannabis and ignore any issues which may arise, then I wouldn't have thought it being legal or illegal will make the slightest bit of difference.....therefore I say legalise it...it is comparitably less harmful than other legal substances...

Once again...how would you know if it was inherant?
We are going around in circles here ammi, bringing alcohol and other medicines into the debate is not an argument for legalisation in my opinion.
9/10 it is smoked so there are the associated health implications there for a start.

[Kizzy]

Because the information I've posted is simply common knowledge, if you did even a little research you'd see that a lot of what I'm saying is correct. You keep going on the offensive demanding me to pretty much reference everything when really fact checking someone's argument is the job of the opposition.

I've made claims and you have not been able to refute them at all, all you've tried to do is cast aspersions in order to deflect from the fact that you haven't got an argument.

I'll give you one last chance, I'll basically compile a brief overview of all my points to see if you can counter any of them without being evasive or resorting to any of your usual tricks.

Pros of Cannabis
- Less toxic then the likes of cigarettes or Alcohol. To overdose on Cannabis you have to smoke around a thousand joints in 10 minutes to reach fatal toxic levels which is pretty much impossible to do.
- It's a powerful painkiller that (leading on from my previous point) is impossible to overdose on and the side effects CAN be lesser than that of some prescription drugs.
- There's no recorded deaths attributed to Cannabis, there's thousands every year because of smoking and Alcohol.
- Partaking in it can actually help prevent the effects of a lot of diseases. Some of which include Alzheimer's, MS, Hepatitis, Epilepsy and Depression. There's plenty of other illnesses it helps with as well.
- Less addictive and generally safer than legal substances.
- Generally calms people down so there's less chance of Anti-Social behavior then there might be if someone was drunk.

I'm pretty sure I've made more points on the subject that I can't quite remember. The only negative that's been stated about it is the psychological aspect which other members have stated is down to bad growth which in countries where it's legal it isn't as much of a problem since there's guidelines and regulations involved that prevent legitimate stores from selling bad Cannabis.

A bad batch could mess with your mind, Home made beer that's incorrectly brewed can kill you.

No dezzy you are offensive!

You use cannabis with tobacco so the same risks apply...
Thats why prescription drugs are only available on prescription...and the advice states clearly with them there may be side effects, however it may be more detrimental to your health not to take them if you have a medical condition.
Again, you have to smoke to use cannabis ...the risk of death is the same.
It cannot 'prevent the effects' at best it may alleviate the symptoms as it relaxes muscles thats all..
You cannot suggest it is any more or less addictive than any other 'substance'
You may initially find it calms you down, fast forward 3yrs you are a paranoid wreck...what then?

Can we stop now?
I don't agree with the legalisation of cannabis
I'm sure I am not the only person in the UK.

[Livia]

Whether or not cannabis is legalised people will still use it. If it is not legalised its distribution and sale will remain in the hands of criminals and there can be no control over its quality. We're not talking about heroin here, and I think that those who are strongly against the legalisation of cannabis really don't understand the argument.

[Redway]

Whether or not cannabis is legalised people will still use it. If it is not legalised its distribution and sale will remain in the hands of criminals and there can be no control over its quality. We're not talking about heroin here, and I think that those who are strongly against the legalisation of cannabis really don't understand the argument.

Exactly and the minute cannabis becomes regulated by the government - not by hardcore criminals - is the minute it automatically becomes safer.

[Kizzy]

Whether or not cannabis is legalised people will still use it. If it is not legalised its distribution and sale will remain in the hands of criminals and there can be no control over its quality. We're not talking about heroin here, and I think that those who are strongly against the legalisation of cannabis really don't understand the argument.

Please don't patronise me...
I have the opinion that it should not be legalised, that is my argument and I have made points in support of it...
It is my opinion of which I am entitled, why some fail to appreciate that is beyond me.
Will the criminals suddenly hand over control of distribution then?..

[Redway]

Please don't patronise me...
I have the opinion that it should not be legalised, that is my argument and I have made points in support of it...
It is my opinion of which I am entitled, why some fail to appreciate that is beyond me.
Will the criminals suddenly hand over control of distribution then?..

Of course it's your opinion, which you are entitled. Just as everyone else is entitled to challenge them if they don't agree with them ... the whole reason for the sheer existence of internet forums, you know? What is the point in posting something if you can't even defend your ill thought-out views? You don't want a debate? Stop engaging in one then.

[Tom4784]

No dezzy you are offensive!

You use cannabis with tobacco so the same risks apply...
Thats why prescription drugs are only available on prescription...and the advice states clearly with them there may be side effects, however it may be more detrimental to your health not to take them if you have a medical condition.
Again, you have to smoke to use cannabis ...the risk of death is the same.
It cannot 'prevent the effects' at best it may alleviate the symptoms as it relaxes muscles thats all..
You cannot suggest it is any more or less addictive than any other 'substance'
You may initially find it calms you down, fast forward 3yrs you are a paranoid wreck...what then?

Can we stop now?
I don't agree with the legalisation of cannabis
I'm sure I am not the only person in the UK.

Nothing but evasive tactics and ignoring a good chunk of my post once again. Why did I even expect anything different from you? Welcome to my ignore list, I have no interest in talking to someone who can't even discuss things properly. It's boring and you are boring me.

[Kizzy]

Nothing but evasive tactics and ignoring a good chunk of my post once again. Why did I even expect anything different from you? Welcome to my ignore list, I have no interest in talking to someone who can't even discuss things properly. It's boring and you are boring me.

I responded to your points , such as they were...
I was rational, and answered you with relevant information instead of personal opinion. Notice I did not throw any personal insults around dezzy.
I am happy to be on your ignore list, thankyou.

[Kizzy]

Of course it's your opinion, which you are entitled. Just as everyone else is entitled to challenge them if they don't agree with them ... the whole reason for the sheer existence of internet forums, you know? What is the point in posting something if you can't even defend your ill thought-out views? You don't want a debate? Stop engaging in one then.

Have I personally insulted anyone here?...no!
Comment on the OP and stop jumping on bandwagons please. By insulting me and my views it does not make your point any more valid, or your opinion any more credible than mine.

[Ammi]

Once again...how would you know if it was inherant?
We are going around in circles here ammi, bringing alcohol and other medicines into the debate is not an argument for legalisation in my opinion.
9/10 it is smoked so there are the associated health implications there for a start.

..I apologise for taking so long to respond to your post Kizzy...I had an appointment....

...there are no circles to go around in..what there is, is a brick wall..the research you have shown actually states itself that there are no long term negative effects directly associated to cannabis...that's together with all of the other research posted by myself and others....

..now I know that you're an intelligent lady, so I know that you wouldn't post research which negates your own opinion unless there wasn't any to find to support it..because that wouldn't make sense at all....

...so, in the lack of any substantiated research to the contrary, I am in favour of legalising cannabis..I understand that you are not..and no, you won't be the only person with that ..you are perfectly entitled to be against it..but it is just your opinion, not backed up by any medical reasons...just as I and others are entitled to favour it...and the research backs this up....

...I don't have anymore to add to this thread...I think the circles can go around quite nicely without me...

..and I have been paying attention..I always pay attention to my own threads...

[Redway]

Have I personally insulted anyone here?...no!
Comment on the OP and stop jumping on bandwagons please. By insulting me and my views it does not make your point any more valid, or your opinion any more credible than mine.

You don't have to insult anyone to have ill thought-out views. You've basically just ignored all valid points on here just because you don't like them and then went on to post what you've said since the beginning of this thread. I'm not having a go, because I do like you kizzy, but you're not making much sense on this thread at all...

[Kizzy]

..I apologise for taking so long to respond to your post Kizzy...I had an appointment....

...there are no circles to go around in..what there is, is a brick wall..the research you have shown actually states itself that there are no long term negative effects directly associated to cannabis...that's together with all of the other research posted by myself and others....

..now I know that you're an intelligent lady, so I know that you wouldn't post research which negates your own opinion unless there wasn't any to find to support it..because that wouldn't make sense at all....

...so, in the lack of any substantiated research to the contrary, I am in favour of legalising cannabis..I understand that you are not..and no, you won't be the only person with that ..you are perfectly entitled to be against it..but it is just your opinion, not backed up by any medical reasons...just as I and others are entitled to favour it...and the research backs this up....

...I don't have anymore to add to this thread...I think the circles can go around quite nicely without me...

..and I have been paying attention..I always pay attention to my own threads...

Well i'm back on the trusty old 3ds, so I won't be able to post links to any further information that strengthens my viewpoint unfortunately.
There is no 'brick wall' ammi'
I am intelligent enough to know that, I do however feel as if i'm talking to one on here sometimes.....lol
There most certainly is evidence to support the long term psychological health problems associated with long term cannabis use.
I appreciate you posted some information suggesting alcohol is worse than cannabis,and that may well be true, but I was not aware that was the topic in discussion.
To me it bears no relevance to whether or not cannabis is legalised or not...
I apologise for not being able to help you further find the necessary facts, however if you looked on the Royal College of Physicians website there will be links to many relevant articles. Failing that you could talk to FRANK :)

[Kizzy]

You don't have to insult anyone to have ill thought-out views. You've basically just ignored all valid points on here just because you don't like them and then went on to post what you've said since the beginning of this thread. I'm not having a go, because I do like you kizzy, but you're not making much sense on this thread at all...

Was I meant to change my views mid thread?..
You are suggesting my view is ill thought out because you don't agree with it, that's fine..
It makes perfect sense redway, 'I do not agree with the legalisation of cannabis'..
Can you not understand that?
Anyone that does great! fair play to you...

[Redway]

Was I meant to change my views mid thread?..
You are suggesting my view is ill thought out because you don't agree with it, that's fine..
It makes perfect sense redway, 'I do not agree with the legalisation of cannabis'..
Can you not understand that?
Anyone that does great! fair play to you...

I understand. Just people on here don't agree with you. Can you not understand that?

[Kizzy]

I understand. Just people on here don't agree with you. Can you not understand that?

Of course I can!
Why that causes some to personally insult me I have no clue....
Do you see me doing this?....no
Why do I feel as if I have to apologise for not agreeing with the majority?...
If you have to deride, scoff, patronise and berate anyone who has an opposing opinion in an attempt to validate yours then to me you have a very weak argument initially.

[Redway]

Of course I can!
Why that causes some to personally insult me I have no clue....
Do you see me doing this?....no
Why do I feel as if I have to apologise for not agreeing with the majority?...
If you have to deride, scoff, patronise and berate anyone who has an opposing opinion in an attempt to validate yours then to me you have a very weak argument initially.

I didn't insult you, so please don't bring up the 'pity card'. I know these are your views and I accept them. I just think they're ridiculous given that you know (or should know) that alcohol and cigarettes, etc, are far more detrimental to society, yet people are allowed to do all that (and rightly so). You can't just cherry pick what people should do because you personally approve of it and decide to totally ignore the rest, no matter just how much evidence in the contrary...

And this is more than you just having views that the majority don't hold. This is you not knowing what you're talking about and having yet another person banging on about the same nonsense that people try and sell across thinking that cannabis is on the same level as cocaine.

[Kizzy]

Pity! what on earth are you talking about?
For the 10th time this thread is about the legalisation of cannabis.
NOT alcohol.
Where have I said cannabis is as bad as cocaine?....
I don't know what i'm talking about, and yet everyone else who support the legalisation is an expert?....haha!!
I have said all I want to to you on this topic redway.

[Redway]

Exactly. So err, why exactly are you in favour of people using alcohol, just not cannabis? Does alcohol not do more damage than cannabis and I don't see anyone calling for that to be banned? Because I don't see the point in allowing people to destroy themselves through excessive binge drinking (and of course they're entitled to do whatever it is they want to do with their bodies) but not allow someone get stoned through a harmless substance that doesn't cause any violence - and one which is automatically bound to improve in quality if out of the hands of criminals and into the hands of the government? The mind tickles.

[Kizzy]

If you want to discuss that start a thread don't hijack ammis.

[Redway]

How on earth is this any of this hijacking a thread? We have a thread on cannabis being legalised and obviously people are going to question the overall legalisation of cannabis (in fact, anything related to cannabis). Discussions are fluid.

[iRyan]

Thank you Dezzy for having the patience to deal with this ignorance. But there's two statements that really made me laugh that I just had to respond to:


You use cannabis with tobacco so the same risks apply...

No you don't. Only some people do, but you certainly do not need to mix them by any means.

Again, you have to smoke to use cannabis ...the risk of death is the same.

This is also false. I know many people, especially those in the medical marijuana community, who use marijuana but don't smoke it. You can feel the affects of marijuana just the same by ingesting it or by using a vaporizer - which extracts THC without any smoke, it's completely harmless.

I'm sorry but this just further demonstrates your ignorance on the topic.

[Kizzy]

Thank you Dezzy for having the patience to deal with this ignorance. But there's two statements that really made me laugh that I just had to respond to:



No you don't. Only some people do, but you certainly do not need to mix them by any means.



This is also false. I know many people, especially those in the medical marijuana community, who use marijuana but don't smoke it. You can feel the affects of marijuana just the same by ingesting it or by using a vaporizer - which extracts THC without any smoke, it's completely harmless.

I'm sorry but this just further demonstrates your ignorance on the topic.

I see because a staff member has a pop everyone gets a go?...*sigh*

Cannabinoids have the potential to cause pre-cancerous cells so whether there is nicotine is present or not the risk is there.
I have never said I opposed the prescribed form...
If you were not hellbent on insulting me you would have noticed this.
Anymore personal insults will be reported.

[Livia]

I know lots of people who smoke cannabis, and have done for a while, and hold down highly responsible jobs without a trace of psychosis or paranoia. Just like I know some people who can have a couple of glasses of wine and put the cork back in. Like drinking, most people are able to use cannabis recreationally without kicking the arse out ot it. Like drinking, some people cannot.

[Niamh.]

I know lots of people who smoke cannabis, and have done for a while, and hold down highly responsible jobs without a trace of psychosis or paranoia. Just like I know some people who can have a couple of glasses of wine and put the cork back in. Like drinking, most people are able to use cannabis recreationally without kicking the arse out ot it. Like drinking, some people cannot.

That's exactly it Livia, some people just have addictive personalities but you can't ban everything because some people have no self control

[Kizzy]

But how would you know you had a predisposition to addiction or condition?
If it is legal it could encourage many more people to try it than would if it were an illegal substance.
As said there are already so many problems medically and socially associated with tobacco and alcohol, why throw cannabis in the mix?
The implications of long term recreational use are only just being recognised.
You still meet people that say ''smoking doesn't cause cancer my gran/ grandad/ uncle smoked all their lives and were fine''....
Because you are not affected personally doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

[Shaun]

But how would you know you had a predisposition to addiction or condition?
If it is legal it could encourage many more people to try it than would if it were an illegal substance.
As said there are already so many problems medically and socially associated with tobacco and alcohol, why throw cannabis in the mix?
The implications of long term recreational use are only just being recognised.
You still meet people that say ''smoking doesn't cause cancer my gran/ grandad/ uncle smoked all their lives and were fine''....
Because you are not affected personally doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

The thing about the bit in bold is that there're so many different developments and supposed new theories put forward by scientists and researchers, about what may and may not cause you cancer (the Daily Mail are famous for this :laugh:), that I (personally) kind of take it with a pinch of salt.

And I can see your point about legal cannabis being another problem to monitor but again, I just think it's already going to be a problem because some people (and the majority of people who would be interested in smoking it - let's face it, it's not really hard to get a hold of it :laugh:) smoke it with or without the state's permission.

[Stu]

The law against the substance does more damage than the substance itself. That's the bottom line. You can regulate cannabis and have a more controlled, safer drug create millions in tax to fund healthcare which will have a multitude of benefits, use all the fight on cannabis's resources to go after ... I dunno ... real crime [think of how many more baddies you could catch], stop giving thousands of young people a criminal record [I think this does more damage than smoking cannabis ... I mean I think ... and more people get it than get psychosis GEDDIT?!] ...

... all this and more. Man.

[Kizzy]

The thing about the bit in bold is that there're so many different developments and supposed new theories put forward by scientists and researchers, about what may and may not cause you cancer (the Daily Mail are famous for this :laugh:), that I (personally) kind of take it with a pinch of salt.

And I can see your point about legal cannabis being another problem to monitor but again, I just think it's already going to be a problem because some people (and the majority of people who would be interested in smoking it - let's face it, it's not really hard to get a hold of it :laugh:) smoke it with or without the state's permission.

Thankyou shaun! at last someone who can see further than the end of their nose haha!
I know there is scaremongering in the mail (boo hiss) and its crazy the silly things they tell you to avoid.
I wish I could post more links, (damn this mobile device) looking at them today (none from any media source) it seems an unusual move to legalise a drug thats effects are still being studies for long term effects...
Like you say those who did smoke it will continue to do so, legalising it won't make a difference to them.

[Kizzy]

The law against the substance does more damage than the substance itself. That's the bottom line. You can regulate cannabis and have a more controlled, safer drug create millions in tax to fund healthcare which will have a multitude of benefits, use all the fight on cannabis's resources to go after ... I dunno ... real crime [think of how many more baddies you could catch], stop giving thousands of young people a criminal record [I think this does more damage than smoking cannabis ... I mean I think ... and more people get it than get psychosis GEDDIT?!] ...

... all this and more. Man.

No I don't 'geddit' if people used it prior to legalisation they will continue to use it....how is that tax enforceable?
They will be using and not being fined as its legal, therefore the state could end up losing money.

Posting cartoons? real mature man...

[Stu]

Jesus wept.

Tax revenue from commercially sold weed and money saved from ending the incredibly costly war on cannabis > the amount lost on giving fines to college dropouts.

http://school.discoveryeducation.com/clipart/images/calcltr.gif

There was other stuff in the post too. I'm convinced you're beyond logic though. Maybe that's why people are going after your opinion. Because they all disagree with you and agree with the smart money. Not because it's what Dezzy gone and done.

[Kizzy]

Jesus wept.

Tax revenue from commercially sold weed and money saved from ending the incredibly costly war on cannabis > the amount lost on giving fines to college dropouts.

http://school.discoveryeducation.com/clipart/images/calcltr.gif

There was other stuff in the post too. I'm convinced you're beyond logic though. Maybe that's why people are going after your opinion. Because they all disagree with you and agree with the smart money. Not because it's what Dezzy gone and done.

Oh,if we are going by your fuzzy logic then why don't we go the whole hog and legalise all drugs?
Plenty of dollar in tax from that too...Saves money locking dealers up?
I have my opinon stu, don't bust my balls coz you don't agree.

[Redway]

But how would you know you had a predisposition to addiction or condition?
If it is legal it could encourage many more people to try it than would if it were an illegal substance.
As said there are already so many problems medically and socially associated with tobacco and alcohol, why throw cannabis in the mix?
The implications of long term recreational use are only just being recognised.
You still meet people that say ''smoking doesn't cause cancer my gran/ grandad/ uncle smoked all their lives and were fine''....
Because you are not affected personally doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

You said it yourself. People are free to do whatever they want to do with their lives, not what you think is OK for them to do. In most cases, the only people cannabis smokers are hurting are themselves - not you or anyone else - themselves (and comparatively little hurt). It's not your business so what exactly is your problem?

[Kizzy]

You said it yourself. People are free to do whatever they want to do with their lives, not what you think is OK for them to do. In most cases, the only people cannabis smokers are hurting are themselves - not you or anyone else - themselves (and comparatively little hurt). It's not your business so what exactly is your problem?

I don't have a problem redway, this is a thread on an internet forum i'm just commenting on the OP.
Personal comment removed

[Redway]

I don't have a problem redway, this is a thread on an internet forum i'm just commenting on the OP.
Personal comment removed

Ignoring that ridiculous final point, you obviously do have a problem with cannabis and all people want to know is why - but you haven't bothered to take on account of other people's views and continued posting the same thing as if none of this had happened. I'd have better luck talking to a brick wall, though. I don't know how else to explain.

[the truth]

Im just not interested in drugs or smoking tobacco of any kind...Booze is also totally over-rated, why cant people just enjoy life without the need for all these endless stimulants? People hide behind drink and drugs and use it as an excuse to behave in totally ignorant ways, scared to dare air their views sober, always with the pitifully self defence, oh I was drunk or high, so I didnt really be to be so physically or verbally abusive. It is no self defence imho for anything. I find it utterly pathetic.

[Kizzy]

I do drink alcohol yes so i'm not that holy.
Reporting all the personal comments aimed at me too,
And I still don't believe cannabis should be legalised.

[Kizzy]

Ignoring that ridiculous final point, you obviously do have a problem with cannabis and all people want to know is why - but you haven't bothered to take on account of other people's views and continued posting the same thing as if none of this had happened. I'd have better luck talking to a brick wall, though. I don't know how else to explain.

Yes I do have a problem with it being legalised that's why I commented in this thread initially. I feel I've given lots of reasons why redway, read back through the thread they are there.
I know people are entitled to their view, I never said they wasn't.
I can't post links atm so it's a little difficult to further prove anything from my perspective.
Am I crazy to suggest members respect my right to disagree on this?..

[the truth]

Ignoring that ridiculous final point, you obviously do have a problem with cannabis and all people want to know is why - but you haven't bothered to take on account of other people's views and continued posting the same thing as if none of this had happened. I'd have better luck talking to a brick wall, though. I don't know how else to explain.

he has stated reasons in fairness

[Redway]

Yes I do have a problem with it being legalised that's why I commented in this thread initially. I feel I've given lots of reasons why redway, read back through the thread they are there.
I know people are entitled to their view, I never said they wasn't.
I can't post links atm so it's a little difficult to further prove anything from my perspective.
Am I crazy to suggest members respect my right to disagree on this?..

You don't need to - a plethora of links have already been posted to completely contradict and debase your "argument". I refer you to the second page of this thread, where Ammi did all that.

You're entitled to disagree but under absolutely no circumstances is anyone obliged to respect it. As people have said before, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about so why should people respect this?

[joeysteele]

From weighing up the plus and minus to the argument of legalising cannabis,seeing both sides of it too where it has massively helped with the pain of some people with cancer but also the paranoia it can cause too in some people, not all.

I take the view if I was asked in a poll, or was a lawmaker of the UK then I would vote for it to be legalised.
Never touched it myself and never likely to but I again go with Livia's posts in the main.
She makes a perfectly strong point as to people maybe moderately taking cannabis and still being able to go on doing their jobs and functioning well without harming anyone else either at all.

[Kizzy]

You don't need to - a plethora of links have already been posted to completely contradict and debase your "argument". I refer you to the second page of this thread, where Ammi did all that.

You're entitled to disagree but under absolutely no circumstances is anyone obliged to respect it. As people have said before, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about so why should people respect this?

Ammis links had ''arguments'' why alcohol is worse than cannabis.
And it may be...
It does not however automatically mean that cannabis should be legalised...
I didn't ask people to respect me or my view...just my right to a view....

[the truth]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1523174/Cannabis-can-lead-to-harder-drugs.html

loads of proof it does lead to harder drugs and a collapse in work ethic too

[Redway]

Ammis links had ''arguments'' why alcohol is worse than cannabis.
And it may be...
It does not however automatically mean that cannabis should be legalised...
I didn't ask people to respect me or my view...just my right to a view....

Yes it does. Why keep something more dangerous than what you want to ban? It doesn't make any sense.

[Redway]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1523174/Cannabis-can-lead-to-harder-drugs.html

loads of proof it does lead to harder drugs and a collapse in work ethic too
Alcohol can lead to alcoholism. What does that tell you?
Ammis links had ''arguments'' why alcohol is worse than cannabis.
And it may be...
It does not however automatically mean that cannabis should be legalised...
I didn't ask people to respect me or my view...just my right to a view....

Yes I do have a problem with it being legalised that's why I commented in this thread initially. I feel I've given lots of reasons why redway, read back through the thread they are there.
I know people are entitled to their view, I never said they wasn't.
I can't post links atm so it's a little difficult to further prove anything from my perspective.
Am I crazy to suggest members respect my right to disagree on this?..
Oh dear.

[Marsh.]

Oh dear.

I don't see what your "Oh dear" is about?

Kizzy said she wanted people to respect her right to a view, then you pointed out a previous post where she mentioned people should respect her right to disagree?

What's wrong with that?
I would think it goes without saying that you should show people respect regardless of differing opinion. Do you prefer to just be rude and condescending?

[Livia]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1523174/Cannabis-can-lead-to-harder-drugs.html

loads of proof it does lead to harder drugs and a collapse in work ethic too

You mean proof that it can lead to harder drugs. That's what it says... the clue's in the words.

[Ammi]

I don't see what your "Oh dear" is about?

Kizzy said she wanted people to respect her right to a view, then you pointed out a previous post where she mentioned people should respect her right to disagree?

What's wrong with that?
I would think it goes without saying that you should show people respect regardless of differing opinion. Do you prefer to just be rude and condescending?

......if there is an issue with another member’s comments, then it will be dealt with by the moderators..also the member it was aimed at or any other member has the right to report it.....a post like this offers nothing to the topic or thread...all it does is to incite a situation which takes the thread in an unnecessary direction for anyone who wants to debate the topic and provokes reactions which often become too personal....

[Redway]

Edit - forget it tbh.

[Niamh.]

Yeah ok, as Ammi said posts like these are only going to cause arguments. Can everyone drop it now and stay on topic please?

[Kizzy]

http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7374/1212

Although most young people use cannabis in adolescence without harm, a vulnerable minority experience harmful outcomes. A tenth of the cannabis users by age 15 in our sample (3/29) developed schizophreniform disorder by age 26 compared with 3% of the remaining cohort (22/730). Our findings suggest that cannabis use among psychologically vulnerable adolescents should be strongly discouraged by parents, teachers, and health practitioners. Policy makers and law makers should concentrate on delaying onset of cannabis use

1 in 10... who likes those odds?

This is the British Medical Journals opinion...not mine.

[Kizzy]

......if there is an issue with another member’s comments, then it will be dealt with by the moderators..also the member it was aimed at or any other member has the right to report it.....a post like this offers nothing to the topic or thread...all it does is to incite a situation which takes the thread in an unnecessary direction for anyone who wants to debate the topic and provokes reactions which often become too personal....

I did report it...

[Niamh.]

Yeah ok Kizzy, I said to drop it.

[Redway]

http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7374/1212

Although most young people use cannabis in adolescence without harm, a vulnerable minority experience harmful outcomes. A tenth of the cannabis users by age 15 in our sample (3/29) developed schizophreniform disorder by age 26 compared with 3% of the remaining cohort (22/730). Our findings suggest that cannabis use among psychologically vulnerable adolescents should be strongly discouraged by parents, teachers, and health practitioners. Policy makers and law makers should concentrate on delaying onset of cannabis use

1 in 10... who likes those odds?

This is the British Medical Journals opinion...not mine.
You need to look at what groups these studies are targeting. Obviously adolescents and the psychologically vulnerable are asking for problems if, despite everything they're told, persist in smoking cannabis.

Anyway, I've said all I can be arsed saying on this topic. Let's just agree to disagree.

[Stu]

You're absolutely awful at this, Kizzy. I was going to predict your asinine "well why don't we legalise ALL drugs then, Stu?" argument but decided to hold it off and you came up with the goods all nice and predictable.

Let's not sell heroin. You want to know why? Because it's heroin. Not pot. It's not even worth arguing. But apparently none of the points I made were worth arguing either since you side stepped them all entirely and ended up in a puddle of mud at the side of logical argument highway.

I've already dealt with the schizophrenia thing [lengthy post on THC and CBD]. You ignored those points too. A pattern emerges. Go back, find them and address them if you want. I can't be arsed copy and pasting them for your convenience. You can lead a horse to water but you can't change it's insulting, back arsed views on keeping a relatively benign drug illegal and making it even more dangerous.

I'm personally insulted by the idea that you support a system where people like me are considered criminals and are committing a crime punishable by fine or incarceration. Thousands of young people are getting a criminal record under a costly, unwinnable war that makes everything more dangerous for everyone. It won't work. It didn't work with alcohol.

Your opinion sucks. Sincerely.

[Kizzy]

I have backed up my opinion with sources from medical journals.

[the truth]

Theres loads and loads of evidence that proves the link between soft drugs and hard drugs and of course between drugs and crime and generally a decline in living standards and general well being. if youre caught taking pot round these parts youll lose your job in many cases. if its medicated fair enough. Howeverthe next big problem is meow meow meth addiction. cops claim to be targetting it? theyre not.

[Kizzy]

Theres not a lot they can do to be fair, these previously 'legal highs' are sold on the internet in lots of guises. Pool cleaner, plant food all kinds of stuff.
Methodrone is very dangerous.
The police are fighting a losing battle, especially in poor areas you can go out on mcat/meow meow and be steaming on a tenner.....

[the truth]

Theres not a lot they can do to be fair, these previously 'legal highs' are sold on the internet in lots of guises. Pool cleaner, plant food all kinds of stuff.
Methodrone is very dangerous.
The police are fighting a losing battle, especially in poor areas you can go out on mcat/meow meow and be steaming on a tenner.....

the cops are failing everyone.....they could easily raid nightclubs and make 100 arrests, but they choose not to do so, then the rest of society has to pick up the pieces from the insane side effects of these mind altering drugs

[Shaun]

Theres loads and loads of evidence that proves the link between soft drugs and hard drugs and of course between drugs and crime and generally a decline in living standards and general well being.

such as? the word 'drug'?

if youre caught taking pot round these parts youll lose your job in many cases.

funny how the law works innit

[Kizzy]

What good would that do?
Take every available officer off the street in one town for one night?....
What about the next town, and the next night?...
It's the source and the distribution methods that could be targetted to prevent so much reaching the streets.

[the truth]

What good would that do?
Take every available officer off the street in one town for one night?....
What about the next town, and the next night?...
It's the source and the distribution methods that could be targetted to prevent so much reaching the streets.

it would do a lot of good arressting 100 drug takers/drug dealers all in one swoop at nightclubs. any found with enough to supply would be looking up to 5 years in prison. get a few banged up and guess what? in addition to getting these destroyers of communities locked up, there would also many of the other dealers will soon be scared into finding another occupation. the fewer drugs would see a fall in crime. it would also improve the communities and encourage the decent law abiding people to venture into their town centres again

as it stands druggies , takers and pushers , rule the streets, especially late and night and the police turn a blind eye. they dont want the hassle or the paperwork. its time to crack down on the police before we even attempt to crack down on the crack!