View Full Version : Oscar Pistorius: Not Guilty of Murder.
South African Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius has been arrested over the fatal shooting of his girlfriend at his home in Pretoria, local media say.
Police confirmed to local media that a woman - who died at the scene - was shot in the head and arm.
The precise circumstances surrounding the incident are unclear. Reports say he may have mistaken her for a burglar.
The 26-year-old - known as the "blade runner" - was the first double amputee to run in the Olympics.
"We found a 9mm pistol at the scene. A 26-year-old man was taken into custody," police spokeswoman Katlego Mogale told Reuters news agency.
Local media say the body was removed from the scene.
South Africa has among the highest rates of crime in the world and many residents keep weapons to protect themselves against intruders.
But South Africa does have a careful vetting process before awarding gun licenses, Erika Gibson of Beelt newspaper told the BBC.
Pistorius races wearing carbon fibre prosthetic blades after he was born without a fibula in both legs.
He reached the 400m semi-finals in the London 2012 Olympics. At the Paralympics he won gold in the T44 400m, setting a Paralympic record.
For years he dominated in his category at successive Paralympic Games
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21455453
Jack_
14-02-2013, 07:49 AM
:o :o
Munchkins
14-02-2013, 07:49 AM
OMFG. I really liked him at the Olympics!
horrendous :(
Jack_
14-02-2013, 07:52 AM
I do hope it was a mistake :o ***** though, this'll be his career over surely?
Munchkins
14-02-2013, 07:52 AM
He's already had like 6 golds, im pretty sure it was the end anyway
So apparently he mistook his girlfriend for a burgular D:
Jack_
14-02-2013, 07:59 AM
What the **** was he doing shooting people though, silly man...never gonna end well, burglar or not. Disappointing.
Cherie
14-02-2013, 08:04 AM
I guess in SA and you are as high profile as him, you do what you can to protect yourself, he is more vulnerable than somebody able bodied, sounds like a terrible tragedy.
Jesus.
14-02-2013, 09:18 AM
Happy valentines day.
"The woman had been wounded in her head and upper body."
Seems like a "hit" ..... :suspect:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/14/reeva-steenkamp-profile-model-pictures_n_2683671.html?1360832813&utm_hp_ref=uk
She doesn't look like a burglar to me ..... :nono:
Awful if he did think she was a burglar, not sure how that could have happened but I guess like Cherie said being who he is and living in SA you'd probably be extra alert to the threat of burglary
Vanessa
14-02-2013, 10:32 AM
This is so sad. Such a tragedy. :(
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9869406/Oscar-Pistorius-charged-with-murder-after-shooting-girlfriend.html
Police have confirmed that a 26-year-old man is due before the courts this morning. A police spokesman said a 30-year-old woman was found dead at a luxury housing estate east of Pretoria, shot in the head and the arm, and a 9mm pistol was recovered by police.
Police spokeswoman Sarah Mcira confirmed that the 26-year-old man had been charged with murder. She said police now have 48 hours to question him and continue investigations before he is brought before the court, but added that he could appear as early as Thursday afternoon.
Murder is not usually a mistake ..... :idc:
http://news.sky.com/story/1051959/oscar-pistorius-charged-with-murder
"The deceased was shot four times and died on the scene. It is believed that she was the girlfriend of the accused," said police spokesman Katlego Mogale.
:suspect:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/14/pistorius-home-estate-most-secure-south-africa
The estate where South African athlete Oscar Pistorius lives and where he is believed to have shot his grilfriend is supposed to be one of the safest in the country.
In 2009, Silver Lakes Golf Estate was voted "the most secure estate in South Africa", according to its website.
Located in the east of the country's capital Pretoria, the estate consists of more than 1,600 plots of land up to 3,000 sq m (32,000 sq ft) built around an 18-hole golf course.
Offering a tranquil lifestyle "unparalleled in the Pretoria region", it has electrified fences, armed 24-hour security guards and manned controlled access.
So it's not like the girlfriend just letting herself into a mid-town apartment ..... :pipe:
Shaun
14-02-2013, 10:58 AM
jeeeeesus christ.
Mrluvaluva
14-02-2013, 10:58 AM
Awful if he did think she was a burglar, not sure how that could have happened but I guess like Cherie said being who he is and living in SA you'd probably be extra alert to the threat of burglary
Apparently she was trying to creep into his room at about 5am or sometime similar, trying to surprise him for valentines...
Apparently she was trying to creep into his room at about 5am or sometime similar, trying to surprise him for valentines...
http://news.sky.com/story/1051959/oscar-pistorius-charged-with-murder
Initial reports in the South African media suggested Pistorius' girlfriend was allegedly shot as she woke him, trying to surprise him on Valentine's Day.
But police said the shooting was being treated as a murder investigation and that they were "very surprised" by the reports which they said did not come from them.
http://news.sky.com/story/1051959/oscar-pistorius-charged-with-murder
Brigadier Denis Beukes confirmed the pair were the only ones present in the house at the time of the shooting, and that there had been previous incidents at the premises including "allegations of a domestic nature".
The police said they will be opposing bail when the suspect appears in court.
Do they suspect that he will do a runner?
Cherie
14-02-2013, 11:16 AM
http://news.sky.com/story/1051959/oscar-pistorius-charged-with-murder
Do they suspect that he will do a runner?
:joker: nice one..
What an awful story if they suspect he murdered her :shocked:
http://news.sky.com/story/1051959/oscar-pistorius-charged-with-murder
Pistorius, like many fellow South Africans, appeared to have serious concerns about his safety, and reportedly kept a revolver at his bedside and a machine gun by his window, as well as a cricket bat and baseball bat behind his bedroom door.
WTF ..... :eek:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/14/oscar-pistorius-girlfriend-shot-dead
Police spokeswoman Denise Beukes said there had been reports from neighbours of shouting and screaming coming from the house earlier in the evening.
:suspect:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21459439
A well-known model and celebrity in South Africa, 29-year-old Reeva Steenkamp has been shot dead, allegedly by her boyfriend Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius in Pretoria.
She graduated in law from the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University in Port Elizabeth where she grew up and moved to Johannesburg six years ago after she was scouted to become the first face of Avon cosmetics in South Africa.
She went on to appear in many campaigns and commercials and had presented some TV shows.
"She was definitely destined for success," her publicist Sarit Tomlinson, from Capacity Relations, told the BBC.
"She was a gorgeous girl both inside and out, and also had a brain... she had an incredible entrepreneurial spirit."
Her family were "shocked and devastated", Ms Tomlinson said.
"She was an absolute angel - the sweetest, sweetest human being, kind human being, it's very, very sad."
RIP ..... :sad:
BBfanUSA
14-02-2013, 12:56 PM
Okay, Really Starting to think he killed her on purpose.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/14/oscar-pistorius-murder-charge-live
Pistorius's appearance court has been postponed until tomorrow.
Police sources suggested that Pistorius himself had requested that he appear in court as soon as possible today, but that the facilities might not be equipped for people with disabilities.
Police deny that they are giving him special treatment.
bbfan1991
14-02-2013, 01:51 PM
OMG:o. RIP to the woman and condolences to her loved ones. I hope the Police get to the bottom of what happened to her!
Kizzy
14-02-2013, 01:55 PM
Hmm, miststaken identity or a crime of passion?...
Still seems unreal even when you see it on the News now, i watching watching a documentary about him a few weeks ago with him and his Girlfriend in and on Camera they seemed really happy
GypsyGoth
14-02-2013, 07:06 PM
He did seem like an asshole.
Joseline
14-02-2013, 07:08 PM
Wait, he's not gay?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-shooting-nike-ad-1709534
A Nike advert with the tagline 'I am the bullet in the chamber' has been removed from Oscar Pistorius' website in the wake of the shooting.
The ad showed a lycra-clad Pistorius sprinting out of the blocks next to the sportswear brand's 'Just do it' message and swoosh.
Bad for Nike ..... :idc:
Drew.
15-02-2013, 01:36 AM
thats one way to get rid of your hero reputation, sad news
http://assets.thehollywoodgossip.com/photos/full/oscar-pistorius-runs-with-girl.jpg
Jake.
15-02-2013, 01:37 AM
Awful news... but I just don't buy it.... (the mistaking her for a burgular)
The arrest of the 26-year-old Olympic and Paralympic track star stunned a nation that holds him up as hero who triumphed over adversity to compete with able-bodied athletes at the highest levels of sport.
His girlfriend, model Reeva Steenkamp, was found shot dead in his plush Pretoria home in the early hours of Thursday, police said, announcing that they had opened a murder investigation.
Initial reports of the shooting suggested Pistorius may have mistaken Steenkamp for an intruder.
The evening edition of Johannesburg's Star newspaper plastered the case across its front page, with a banner headline: "Oscar arrested: Girlfriend killed".
A 9 mm pistol was recovered from the scene, and police said there had been previous incidents of "a domestic nature" at the residence, which sits in the middle of a heavily guarded gated complex in the northern outskirts of the South African capital.
Pistorius had initially been expected to appear in court on Thursday but the hearing was postponed to Friday, National Prosecuting Authority officials said. The court is due to open at 0700 GMT but it is not known when Pistorius will appear.
He is being held overnight at Pretoria's Boschkop police station after undergoing medical and forensic examinations, police said. Police have said they will oppose bail.
"He is doing well but very emotional" his lawyer, Kenny Oldwage, told SABC TV, but gave no further comment.
Police brigadier Denise Beukes said witnesses had been interviewed about the incident which happened in the early hours of the morning.
"We are talking about neighbours and people that heard things earlier in the evening and when the shooting took place," she said.
"When a person has been accused of a crime like murder they (the district surgeon) look at things like testing under the finger nails, taking a blood alcohol sample and all kinds of other test that are done. They are standard medical tests," Beukes said.
South Africa's M-Net cable TV channel immediately pulled adverts featuring Pistorius off air but most of his sponsors, including sports apparel group Nike, said they would not make any decisions until the police investigation is completed.
Pistorius's endorsements and sponsorships, which also include telecoms firm BT, sunglasses maker Oakley and French designer Thierry Mugler, are thought to be worth as much as $2 million a year.
Pistorius, who was born without a fibula in both legs, was the first double amputee to run in the Olympics and reached the 400-metres semi-finals in London 2012.
In last year's Paralympics he suffered his first loss over 200 metres in nine years. After the race he questioned the legitimacy of Brazilian winner Alan Oliveira's prosthetic blades, but was quick to express regret for the comments.
South Africa has some of the world's highest rates of violent crime, and many home owners have weapons to defend themselves against intruders, although Pistorius's complex is surrounded by a three-metre high wall and electric fence.
In 2004, Springbok rugby player Rudi Visagie shot dead his 19-year-old daughter after he mistakenly thought she was a robber trying to steal his car in the middle of the night.
Steenkamp, a model and regular on the South African party circuit, was reported to have been dating Pistorius for a year, and there had been little to suggest their relationship was in trouble.
In the social pages of last weekend's Sunday Independent she described him as having "impeccable" taste.
"His gifts are always thoughtful," she was quoted as saying.
Some of her last Twitter postings indicated she was looking forward to celebrating Valentine's Day on Thursday with him.
"What do you have up your sleeve for your love tomorrow???" she posted
However, Beukes said the police were aware of previous incidents at the house of a "domestic nature", and recent media interviews with Pistorius revealed he kept an assortment of weapons in his home.
"Cricket and baseball bats lay behind the door, a pistol by his bed and a machine gun by a window," the Daily Mail wrote in a profile published last year.
He was arrested in 2009 for assault after slamming a door on a woman and spent a night in police custody. Family and friends said it was just an accident and the charges were later dropped.
In last year's Paralympics he suffered his first loss over 200 metres in nine years. After the race he questioned the legitimacy of Brazilian winner Alan Oliveira's prosthetic blades, though he was quick to express his regret for the comments
Neighbours expressed shock at the arrest of a "good guy".
"It is difficult to imagine an intruder entering this community, but we live in a country where intruders can get in wherever they want to," said one local resident, who did not want to be named.
"Oscar is a good guy, an upstanding neighbour, and if he is innocent I feel for this guy deeply," he said
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/athletics-pistorius-arrested-girlfriend-shot-dead-071857573.html
arista
15-02-2013, 08:07 AM
Still seems unreal even when you see it on the News now, i watching watching a documentary about him a few weeks ago with him and his Girlfriend in and on Camera they seemed really happy
Yes but away from Cameras
What got him Angry?
His temper was not seen.
Next door said there was Shouting
so he got his Gun (he has loads) shut her up.
Tragic and Evil.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21467359
South African Olympic and Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius has arrived at court to face a murder charge after his girlfriend, model Reeva Steenkamp, was shot and killed at his home near Pretoria.
Mr Pistorius spent the night in a police station and is appearing at the magistrates' court in the city.
A decision will be taken on whether he should be granted bail.
Prosecutors will argue that Mr Pistorius should remain in custody.
The athlete arrived at court in the back of a police vehicle, hiding his face with a jacket and a notepad.
Dozens of photographers are in the courtroom in Pretoria, where chief magistrate Desmond Nair will hear the bail application.
The BBC's Andrew Harding, at the scene, says it is likely that some details of both the case against the 26-year-old, and his defence, will be revealed.
Television cameras have been allowed in court for the hearing. Mr Pistorius's sister and father are in the courtroom.
:idc:
Pistorius enters in grey suit and blue shirt. Grim faced.
"The state versus Mr Oscar Leonard Pistorius." Charge of one count of murder.
9 Minutes ago
defence lawyer argues against live tv coverage.
1 Minute ago
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21467359
South African Olympic and Paralympic star Oscar Pistorius wept in court on Friday as prosecutors said they would pursue a "premeditated murder" charge over the death of his girlfriend.
Model Reeva Steenkamp was shot dead at his home near Pretoria on Thursday.
Mr Pistorius held his head in his hands and broke down in tears as the charge was read out in the magistrates' court.
An application for bail was postponed till next Tuesday and Mr Pistorius, 26, will remain in police custody.
Not just murder, but "premeditated" ..... :eek:
Macie Lightfoot
15-02-2013, 10:56 AM
He's already had like 6 golds, im pretty sure it was the end anyway
He's only 26 so no.
Jack_
15-02-2013, 01:06 PM
Premeditated? Gonna be interesting to see how they can justify that, if it was just in the middle of an argument then it seems a bit of a flimsy accusation.
The plot thickens. How sad though.
This is really sad if it is an accident.
This is really sad if it is an accident.
If ..... :suspect:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21475873
South African Olympic and Paralympic star Oscar Pistorius has strongly rejected a charge that he murdered his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.
Appearing in court in Pretoria, Mr Pistorius wept as prosecutors vowed to pursue a charge of premeditated murder.
An application for bail was postponed until next Tuesday and the athlete will remain in police custody.
Dubbed "blade runner", he made history last summer by becoming the first double-amputee track athlete to run in an Olympic Games.
"The alleged murder is disputed in the strongest terms", said a statement released by Mr Pistorius's family and management company after the court hearing.
No surprise there ..... :idc:
lostalex
15-02-2013, 03:25 PM
OJ Simpson all over again.
lostalex
15-02-2013, 03:27 PM
This is really sad if it is an accident.
how can it be an accident? they were the only 2 people in the house and she was shot 4 times. How do you accidentally shoot someone 4 times?
Oops i accidentally shot you, oops i accidentally shot you again, oops, i accidentally did it again, oops i accidentally did it again.
Mrluvaluva
15-02-2013, 05:10 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDGm1aJCQAAczpn.png:large
The Sun's front page today is quite distasteful and disrespectful seeing as she has just been killed.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDGm1aJCQAAczpn.png:large
The Sun's front page today is quite distasteful and disrespectful seeing as she has just been killed.
Yeah, nasty ..... :yuk:
Jesus.
15-02-2013, 05:32 PM
If there really was a 10 minute break between shots, then he's as guilty as can be.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21472843
"I am the bullet in the chamber" ran the strapline for the Nike advert featuring Paralympic champion Oscar Pistorius.
As the South African athlete faced charges of "premeditated murder" in a Pretoria courtroom following the shooting dead of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, his sponsors went into crisis-management mode.
Nike swiftly pulled the unfortunately-worded ads, as the perils of celebrity brand endorsement were brought sharply into focus once again.
Mr Pistorius, who has strongly rejected the murder charge, is thought to have earned several million pounds from sponsorships with Nike, BT, Thierry Mugler, Oakley, and Ossur, the Icelandic firm that makes the prosthetic carbon fibre blades he wears for races.
But in the brutal world of sports sponsorship, the "Blade Runner" stands to lose everything, even presuming his innocence.
When asked whether Nike was considering terminating Mr Pistorius' sponsorship deal, thought to be worth about $2m, a spokesman told the BBC: "We are continuing to monitor the situation closely. It is a police matter."
Another of Mr Pistorius' sponsors, M-Net Movies, a South African pay TV channel, pulled its TV ad campaign featuring the athlete, tweeting: "Out of respect and sympathy to the bereaved, M-Net will be pulling its entire Oscar campaign featuring Oscar Pistorius with immediate effect."
John Taylor, director of a sports sponsorship company and a veteran of the industry, told the BBC: "Even if Pistorius is found innocent, he is damaged goods. Brands need to act quickly and distance themselves from him; they cannot afford to wait until the case is heard.
"It's not like rats deserting a sinking ship, it's just the sensible thing to do."
Nigel Currie, director of sports marketing agency Brand Rapport, agrees, saying: "This is very different to the Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong cases; this is life and death. There's no coming back from this."
I should hope not - whatever the result of the court case, Pictorius surrounded himself with lethal weapons and killed another human being with one of them.
lostalex
16-02-2013, 03:03 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21472843
I should hope not - whatever the result of the court case, Pictorius surrounded himself with lethal weapons and killed another human being with one of them.
It sounds simple on paper right? But remember how much support Chris Brown still has. He beat the **** out of Rihanna, and will probably kill her some day, but people still love him.
The chick Pistorious killed isn't even half as famous as Rihanna.
Don't underestimate the misogyny that still exists dude. A sexy woman versus a rich man, society will still always side with the rich man.
If there really was a 10 minute break between shots, then he's as guilty as can be.
..some reports are saying that the shots were through a bathroom door..which doesn't really sound like an accidental/intruder type thing...but there's so much trial by media these days, we can't know anything until the trial..innocent until proved guilty....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9874605/Oscar-Pistorius-carried-dying-Reeva-Steenkamp-downstairs-and-tried-to-resuscitate-her.html
Miss Steenkamp, 29, an FHM covergirl, is said to have still been breathing when security guards and neighbours arrived at Pistorius' house in the early hours of St Valentine's Day, but was pronounced dead by paramedics who arrived shortly afterwards.
Sources told Beeld, the Afrikaans language newspaper, that security guards who heard the shots and rushed to the house saw the Paralympic gold medalist was seen running down the stairs with the blonde model in his arms.
Paramedics who arrived shortly afterwards were unable to revive her.
She had been shot four times, in the head, chest and hand, through the bathroom door. Initial reports suggested Pistorius fired the fatal shots believing she was an intruder, although the claim has since been played down by police.
Neighbours and security guards at the exclusive Silver Woods Country Estate, to the east of Pretoria, are reported by Beeld to have heard Miss Steenkamp's last, ragged breaths.
Blood spatters ran along the route Pistorius is said to have carried his girlfriend as he sought help, and bloody towels lay on the floor where police found her when they arrived moments later, the paper said.
Forensic teams are still working at the luxury home of the double amputee, until this week one of South Africa's most celebrated heroes.
They are reported to have removed the bullet-marked bathroom door as evidence. According to the paper's source, they apparently believe that Miss Steenkamp was sitting on the lavatory when she was shot.
Police spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Katlego Mogale refused to confirm or deny the claims when questioned by Beeld, saying they formed part of the police investigation.
WTF ?
:eek:
Jack_
16-02-2013, 10:43 AM
Why would you shoot someone through a door? This case just gets stranger.
arista
16-02-2013, 10:53 AM
Why would you shoot someone through a door? This case just gets stranger.
He wanted her Dead
but did not want to see her face.
Kizzy
16-02-2013, 10:57 AM
What kind of intruder breaks in and goes for a wee? ...not looking good is it?
lostalex
16-02-2013, 11:01 AM
Why would you shoot someone through a door? This case just gets stranger.
um, justa a wild guess, but i'm thinking she was trying to get away from him by locking herself in the bathroom, and then, he went to the bedroom, got a gun, and Murdered her.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicide-watch-after-1712831
Blade Runner Oscar Pistorius has been placed on suicide watch after being accused of murdering his model girlfriend in cold blood.
Police in South Africa are said to have concerns over the Paralympian's mental state after he sobbed uncontrollably during his first court appearance yesterday.
He was refused bail and is reportedly being monitored closely in his police cell amid fears he is struggling to cope with his emotions.
A man of extremes, obviously ..... :suspect:
During a preliminary hearing in Pretoria yesterday, the court heard Steenkamp was blasted four times – in the head, arm, waist and one bullet smashed through her fingers as she put her hand up to defend herself.
:sad:
arista
16-02-2013, 12:44 PM
"one bullet smashed through her fingers as she put her hand up to defend herself. "
Yes he went Evil
arista
16-02-2013, 04:48 PM
Maybe he was Upset
as she was going to be a Top Star on TV.
They are showing a special on SA TV
that she made just a few weeks ago.
The family has said ok
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/14/article-2278492-1794A7C8000005DC-649_634x765.jpg
This was taken just last Thursday
arista
16-02-2013, 06:19 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/16/article-2279563-179E32E4000005DC-558_634x334.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/16/article-2279563-179E3335000005DC-42_306x423.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/16/article-2279563-179E4D3A000005DC-22_306x457.jpg
From the SA TV special shown today
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9875170/Oscar-Pistorius-shot-Reeva-Steenkamp-on-instinct-his-father-says.html
Henke Pistorius, 59, told The Sunday Telegraph that his family had "zero doubt" that Mr Pistorius had shot Reeva Steenkamp dead mistakenly thinking she was intruder.
"When you are a sportsman, you act even more on instinct," he said. "It's instinct - things happen and that's what you do."
Shoot first, ask questions later, eh ..... :rolleyes:
arista
17-02-2013, 09:39 AM
They were not there
there was Shouting going on.
He is Evil and Guilty
..the only other person that was there is unable to relay the truth...the courts will decide now, based on any evidence they have and let's hope that justice is served on the true events of that day...
..it all sounds quite strange, like a storyline from Columbo or something but that doesn't mean that he is guilty of murder, or that it was accidental either...the court will make it's decision and in the eyes of the law, that ruling will be what happened....
Jack_
17-02-2013, 04:30 PM
There's now talk that there was a bloodied cricket bat found at the scene :o
um, justa a wild guess, but i'm thinking she was trying to get away from him by locking herself in the bathroom, and then, he went to the bedroom, got a gun, and Murdered her.
Drop the attitude.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9875621/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-bloodied-cricket-bat-found-at-Paralympic-athletes-home.html
Local reports stated police believe he may have used the bat to attack girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp before shooting her dead on St Valentine's Day morning.
Detectives are working on two other theories concerning the bat: that it was either used to break down the door of the bathroom where she hid, or that she used it to defend herself against Mr Pistorius, South Africa's City Press reported.
One bullet cartridge was found in the champion sprinter's bedroom and police are looking at whether he "chased" his girlfriend and fired the first shot before she locked herself in the bathroom and he fired three more through the door, the paper said.
A post-mortem examination on the body of the 29-year-old model revealed that as well as bullet wounds to the head, arm, hand and hip, she suffered a fractured skull, it reported.
"There was lots of blood on the bat. Forensic tests will show whose blood it was," one source was quoted as saying.
If these rumours are true, the scenario just gets worse and worse ..... :sad:
According to a source cited by City Press, Miss Steenkamp was wearing a nightdress, an overnight bag was found at the house and her iPad was on the bedroom floor.
"It was clear that both of them had slept in the bed," the source added.
The "intruder" now has no substance at all ..... :nono:
On the subject of substances :
Police asked for blood taken from Mr Pistorius to be tested for steroids, City Press claimed, in anticipation that his defence team might claim he acted in "roid rage" – an aggressive condition associated with taking large doses of performance-enhancing drugs.
:eek:
From Pistorius Snr:
"I have zero doubt (that he thought it was an intruder) – it's totally absurd to even suggest anything different. "When you wake up in the middle of the night – and crime is so endemic in South Africa – what do you do if somebody is in the house? Do you think it's one of your family? Of course you don't," he said.
Just ..... :crazy:
Wow, I can't wait for the verdict on this. I know that sounds sick but this is interesting
arista
17-02-2013, 05:43 PM
..the only other person that was there is unable to relay the truth...the courts will decide now, based on any evidence they have and let's hope that justice is served on the true events of that day...
..it all sounds quite strange, like a storyline from Columbo or something but that doesn't mean that he is guilty of murder, or that it was accidental either...the court will make it's decision and in the eyes of the law, that ruling will be what happened....
To You, maybe.
But she was going to be a Top TV Star
The Evil Runner Killed her
Fact
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/17/oscar-pistorius-shooting-steenkamp
Both sides have engaged legal heavyweights for the Tuesday's court proceedings.
On Pistorius' side is Advocate Barry Roux, the man who, in previous life, prosecuted Roger Kebble, the father of the slain Brett Kebble, in 2005 while he was still a state prosecutor.
In the state's corner, charging Pistorius with the premeditated murder of Reeva Steenkamp, is Advocate Gerrie Nel. He is currently also locked in the prosecution of Chanelle Henning's alleged assassins, former Nigerian Olympic athlete Ambrose Monye and André Gouws. Nel, who is no stranger to controversy, gained fame for his successful prosecution of former national police commissioner, Jackie Selebi. Still, his controversial pact with one of South Africa's biggest drug lords, Glen Agliotti, in order to get to Selebi wasn't very popular with the public.
:idc:
Keep hoping that it will be shown it was just an accident but the more that comes to light the more suspicious it seems that it was premeditated, I did read today that he shot at the bathroom door just to get access to the bathroom but that would be pretty dumb knowing she was behind there
arista
17-02-2013, 05:58 PM
Keep hoping that it will be shown it was just an accident but the more that comes to light the more suspicious it seems that it was premeditated, I did read today that he shot at the bathroom door just to get access to the bathroom but that would be pretty dumb knowing she was behind there
No he Got Evil.
(and was not in the real world type thinking
as he Shot through her hand as she tried to prfotect her face)
He is going to Prison Forever , soon
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/16/oscar-pistorius-murder-charge-family
The Paralympian's uncle, Arnold Pistorius, said that forensic evidence from the crime scene shows that he did not knowingly kill Steenkamp. "After consulting with legal representatives, we deeply regret the allegation of premeditated murder," he said, reading an emotional statement at his home in Pretoria on Saturday. "We have no doubt there is no substance to the allegation and that the state's own case, including its own forensic evidence, strongly refutes any possibility of a premeditated murder or indeed any murder at all."
Well, smashing an "intruder" over the head with a cricket bat and then pumping 4 bullets into the fleeing "perp" who had "taken cover" in the bathroom is not entirely "accidental" ..... :rolleyes:
http://news.sky.com/story/1053249/pistorius-told-friend-ive-killed-my-baba
The best friend of Oscar Pistorius has told how the athlete rang him the night his girlfriend was shot and said: "I've killed my Baba. God take me away."
Justin Divaris, who introduced Reeva Steenkamp to the South African gold medallist, said Pistorius was crying down the phone and admitted he had shot the 29-year-old model.
Mr Divaris, 27, said: "Oscar called me at 3.55am saying that Reeva had been shot. I said to him, 'What are you talking about? I don't understand you'.
"He then repeated himself - 'There has been a terrible accident. I shot Reeva'."
Mr Divaris told the Sunday People that he then spoke to a neighbour who was also in the house, who warned: "She's not OK. You need to get here."
By the time he arrived at Pistorius' house on a gated estate in Pretoria, the double amputee was already being held by police.
He could see Miss Steenkamp's body inside the house at the bottom of the stairs, covered in blankets and towels.
Pistorius was being detained in the garage, and was crying and repeating himself incoherently.
:idc:
Munchkins
18-02-2013, 01:54 AM
Poor poor girl, such a beautiful girl too :(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2280387/Oscar-Pistorius-Drugs-reportedly-house-Reeva-Steenkamp-murder.html#ixzz2LF3zhbIq
Oscar Pistorius will be tested for steriods after the banned drugs were allegedly found in his house after he shot dead his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.
Police are also reported to have established that model Reeva Steenkamp’s skull had been ‘crushed’.
There was also evidence of heavy drinking before the shooting took place at 3am on Valentine's Day, reports The Sun.
Drugs, drink and guns are not a good combination ..... :eek:
Nedusa
18-02-2013, 12:35 PM
Its going to be difficult to prove murder on this one as it would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and without concrete evidence or witness evidence it will always be difficult to achieve this.
Maybe he did kill her , maybe their relationship had run out of steam and was on its last legs who knows ? More likely she wanted out and he wasn't happy. but to murder her in a planned pre-meditated way does seem risky, more likely a massive argument and he had a gun to hand and sadly lost the plot and then concocted the intruder story.
Either way very sad all round. He will probably be convicted of involuntary manslaughter and receive a light prison sentence....!!!
The disabled Olympic and Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius, who stands accused of murdering his girlfriend in a Valentine's Day shooting, was involved in a freak gun accident just weeks before Reeva Steenkamp was shot dead, it emerged today.
According to reports, Pistorius, who is nicknamed ‘blade runner’, was dining in a busy restaurant when the gun accidentally went off, nearly hitting a friend's foot.
The incident allegedly happened last month during a dinner with friends and Pistorius’s 29-year-old model girlfriend.
The paralympic star was reportedly examining the gun, which belonged to a friend, when it snagged on his trousers and went off, narrowly missing a friend’s foot.
Blimey, guns in a restaurant ..... :eek:
arista
18-02-2013, 05:28 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/18/article-2280375-17A90394000005DC-421_634x418.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/18/article-2280375-17A90394000005DC-681_634x336.jpg
A graphic cartoon strip has been published
depicting the last moments before
Oscar Pistorius allegedly shot his girlfriend dead
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2280375/Oscar-Pistorius-Blade-Runners-murder-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamp-turned-controversial-CARTOON-police-reveal-taking-steroids.html#ixzz2LGyEdoGw
Brother Leon
18-02-2013, 05:38 PM
http://news.sky.com/story/1053249/pistorius-told-friend-ive-killed-my-baba
:idc:
Daaammn, not looking good.
Ratted his boy out quickly. :joker:
Nedusa
18-02-2013, 06:32 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/18/article-2280375-17A90394000005DC-421_634x418.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/18/article-2280375-17A90394000005DC-681_634x336.jpg
A graphic cartoon strip has been published
depicting the last moments before
Oscar Pistorius allegedly shot his girlfriend dead
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2280375/Oscar-Pistorius-Blade-Runners-murder-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamp-turned-controversial-CARTOON-police-reveal-taking-steroids.html#ixzz2LGyEdoGw
This surely cannot be allowed, to publish "somebody's" thoughts on how this may have happened would be extremely prejudicial to any trial and grossly unfair. Better to let the experts present their case along with the evidence to hand and let a judge or Jury decide on the basis of that evidence. Not a cartoon story in a newspaper...????
Kizzy
18-02-2013, 06:40 PM
Will there be a need for a jury?...It all looks rather damning :eek:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/18/oscar-pistorius-legal-q-and-a
What happens on Tuesday?
Oscar Pistorius is due to appear at Pretoria magistrates court at 9am local time (7am GMT) . His defence will argue that the category of the offence should be changed from the most serious, schedule six, to schedule five, giving him a better chance of being granted bail. The hearing has been allocated for Tuesday and Wednesday.
What is the likely outcome?
Most commentators expect bail to be denied. Usually this would mean that the defendant is transferred from a police station to a less comfortable prison. It remains unclear whether special provisions would be made for Pistorius's disability.
When would a trial start?
The South African courts are notoriously slow, but a high-profile case like this is expected to move faster. Legal experts interviewed by the Guardian predicted four to six months from now.
Where would it be?
Probably the high court in Pretoria.
Who would decide whether Pistorius is guilty or not?
A judge sitting alongside two assessors – typically magistrates or retired magistrates.
Why no jury?
South Africa abolished the jury system in the 1930s because of racial politics. Only white people were allowed to sit on juries and there was no hope of black defendants being given a fair trial. There was debate about reviving juries after the transition to democracy in 1994 but, given South Africa's 11 official languages, it would have been prohibitively expensive to hire interpreters.
How come the media have such a free rein to speculate and report leaks?
It is widely assumed that judges are less vulnerable to being swayed than a member of a jury, hence South Africa's more relaxed laws of sub judice. Unlike a jury, the judge is obliged to give written reasons for his findings of fact.
Can Pistorius get a fair trial?
Yes, says Prof Pamela Schwikkard, dean of law at Cape Town University. "There is a lot of media coverage of a lot of trials. In Britain it would be an issue, but here it wouldn't even be vaguely an issue."
If convicted of murder, what penalty could he face?
A minimum sentence of life in prison unless there are "substantial" circumstances in mitigation. He would be eligible for parole after 25 years, possibly earlier. By then he would be 51.
No death penalty?
Over a century about 3,500 South Africans, including anti-apartheid fighters, were hanged before the death penalty was abolished in 1995. Opinion polls show support for it as a solution to crime, but a constitutional court judge, Edwin Cameron, recently told how he is "proud of my president" for ruling out its reintroduction.
:idc:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/18/us-safrica-pistorius-idUSBRE91F02L20130218
(Reuters) - Ever since 'Blade Runner' Oscar Pistorius's girlfriend was shot dead in his Pretoria home last week, South African papers have printed lurid details of the killing which, if true, pose major challenges to the Paralympic star's defense team, experts say.
Initial reports of the shooting in the early hours of Thursday suggested Pistorius, 26, a double amputee who became one of the biggest names in world athletics, may have mistaken law graduate and model Reeva Steenkamp for an intruder.
A statement released by his family dismissed the charge of murder laid on Friday in "the strongest terms". His bail hearing resumes in a Pretoria magistrate's court on Tuesday.
Within hours of the shooting, police confirmed that Steenkamp had been killed by more than one gunshot, that Pistorius was the only suspect, that neighbors had heard earlier disturbances, that there were no signs of a break-in and that a 9mm pistol had been recovered from the two-storey home.
Since then, police have released no more details.
The same cannot be said of the South African media, part of a global publicity machine that built up Pistorius into the ultimate sporting tale of triumph over adversity - a man who rose to the pinnacle of world athletics, racing at the Olympics despite having no lower legs.
Some of the most widely reported local media allegations are that Steenkamp was in the bathroom when she was shot, was hit by four rounds - in the head, hand, hip and chest - and that shots were fired through the bathroom door.
In addition, leading Sunday newspaper City Press said investigators had found a blood-stained cricket bat in Pistorius' bedroom. The paper said police had not yet worked out whose blood it was, but said Steenkamp's head was "crushed".
The newspaper also alleged that Steenkamp, who will be buried on Tuesday, had slept in the same bed as Pistorius that night - Valentine's Day eve - and that her iPad was on the bedroom floor along with an overnight bag.
The ENCA television channel said CCTV footage from the gated community showed Steenkamp arriving at the complex shortly after 6 p.m. on the previous evening.
Police have declined to comment on any of the reports, saying official details will only emerge in court.
However, the allegations - if true - undermine the legal argument of self-defense, as well as the suggestion that Pistorius was taken by surprise by a would-be stranger in his house in the middle of the night.
"If what the media says is in fact the truth, I cannot see that any defense based on self-defense can, by any stretch of the imagination, succeed," said Eddie Classen, a partner at BDK Attorneys, one of South Africa's biggest criminal defense firms.
"ROID RAGE"?
Under the white-minority rule that ended in 1994, South Africa had relatively lax curbs on the use of lethal force, not only in self-defense but also in making arrests. Put bluntly, if the only way to stop a fleeing robber was to shoot him, you could.
However, the laws were tightened up after the end of apartheid when the "right to life" became enshrined in the new constitution of Nelson Mandela's "Rainbow Nation", making it permissible to use lethal force only when your life is directly threatened.
Furthermore, when the immediate threat is gone - a shot intruder, say, goes down with a bullet in the leg - the self-defense argument ends.
"The law says that you have to stop the moment that you have repelled an attack, so normally one shot will suffice," said Steven Tuson, a professor of criminal law at Johannesburg's Wits University.
If Pistorius's lawyers choose to avoid the self-defense avenue, another option may be to argue temporary insanity based on chemical stimulants, a defense irreverently referred to in sports-mad South Africa as "roid rage", short for 'steroid'.
This is why Pistorius was taken for blood tests immediately after the shooting, Tuson said, "to exclude that defense". Classen also said the "roid rage" defense could only succeed in "extraordinary circumstances".
One other possible avenue is for Pistorius to argue "putative self-defense" - that he thought he was being attacked even if he wasn't. Even then, Classen said the content of the media reports, if true, curtailed his chances of success.
"The facts of the matter - and I caution again because I am only reading them from the media - suggest something totally different," he said.
Perhaps it would be simpler for Pistorius to plead guilty to a lesser charge ..... :conf:
As usual, the only winners in a protracted case will be the lawyers ..... :hmph:
The 26-year-old is accused of murdering Reeva Steenkamp in the early hours of Valentine’s Day and will appear again in court on Tuesday.
The City Press newspaper claims police have asked for blood taken from Pistorius to be tested for steroids in anticipation that his defence team might claim he acted in "roid rage" – an aggressive condition associated with taking large doses of performance-enhancing drugs.
Numerous British newspapers and sources also cite a report from The Sun that claimed steroids were found at the Paralympian's home.
"Steroid drugs were found at Pistorius’s home together with evidence of heavy drinking. That’s why police have specifically ordered that he be tested for steroids," The Sun claims.
There has been no immediate comment from police regarding the reported discovery of steroids.
The mother of Steenkamp, June, has spoken to South Africa’s Times newspaper of her family's loss with "the most beautiful person who ever lived" having to suffer a "horrendous death".
"She loved like no one else could love. She had so much of herself to give and now all of it is gone," she said. "Just like that, she is gone. In the blink of an eye and a single breath, the most beautiful person who ever lived is no longer here.
"All we have is this horrendous death to deal with, to get to grips with. All we want are answers, answers as to why this had to happen, why our beautiful daughter had to die like this."
Steenkamp's uncle Michael said the family would focus on saying farewell to her
lostalex
19-02-2013, 01:49 AM
I didn't know he was only 26. I thought he was much older. I definitely think he's a murderer though. It's too bad South Africa doesn't have the death penalty.
I think people forget that South Africa is a 3rd world country because they speak english, but it is definitely a 3rd world country.
http://news.sky.com/story/1053938/oscar-pistorius-put-on-legs-to-kill-partner
During the bail hearing, prosecutor Gerrie Nel argued the Paralympian fired four shots at unarmed Reeva Steenkamp through a locked door, showing it was a premeditated murder. He added there was "a motive to kill".
Mr Nel said Ms Steenkamp was inside a small, cramped bathroom with an overnight bag because she was scared after they'd had a row on Valentine's Day.
Mr Nel said the defence had a number of questions to answer, including:
:: Why did Pistorius carry Ms Steenkamp's body down a staircase after she was shot?
:: Why didn't Pistorius look for his girlfriend if he suspected there was a burglar in the house?
:: Why did Ms Steenkamp lock herself in the toilet - was she afraid of being shot or killed?
:: Why did he put on his prosthetic limbs and walk seven metres to the bathroom?
Mr Nel said: "If I arm myself, walk a distance and murder a person, that is premeditated. The door is closed. There is no doubt. I walk seven metres and I kill. The motive is 'I want to kill'. That's it."
He added: "It wouldn't be correct for me to venture into the motive now. We can say that there was a motive to kill."
Meanwhile the athlete's defence lawyer Barry Roux said there was no evidence of premeditation, insisting he did not know it was Ms Steenkamp in the bathroom.
Arguing the law graduate's death was accidental, he said: "We submit it is not even murder. There is no concession this is a murder."
"All we really know is she locked herself behind the toilet door and she was shot," he added.
For the first time, Pistorius is expected to explain how his girlfriend died during the hearing.
If Pistorius thought there was an intruder in the bathroom, why didn't he check for whereabouts of Reeva first?
:conf:
Wtf at today's SkyNews headline: Pistorious 'put on legs before firing gun'
lostalex
19-02-2013, 10:41 AM
http://news.sky.com/story/1053938/oscar-pistorius-put-on-legs-to-kill-partner
If Pistorius thought there was an intruder in the bathroom, why didn't he check for whereabouts of Reeva first?
:conf:
or here's a better question, if he thought there was an intruder in his bathroom, why didn't he just leave his house and call the cops from outside...
If i thought there was a criminal in my bathroom, i'd leave the house and call the cops. Walk out my front door, wait in my drive way for 10 minutes til the cops arrived and let them deal with it... that's what i'd do.
But i shouldn't really comment, cause i'm not a wife beater, so i can't really speak for what an abusive man would do...
or here's a better question, if he thought there was an intruder in his bathroom, why didn't he just leave his house and call the cops from outside...
Because he's his father's son - "shoot first, ask questions later" is an acceptable response, his father suggested
If i thought there was a criminal in my bathroom, i'd leave the house and call the cops. Walk out my front door, wait in my drive way for 10 minutes til the cops arrived and let them deal with it... that's what i'd do.
That's what I did when I was burgled the second time, but I'm not South African
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21502541
After hearing argument from both sides, the magistrate ruled that Mr Pistorius should indeed face a charge under the so-called "Schedule 6", or premeditated murder.
The judge reserved the right to downgrade his ruling at any time, but Mr Pistorius' legal team will now need to prove he deserves bail despite facing the most serious charge.
:idc:
lostalex
19-02-2013, 11:23 AM
nr1CUSa_arA
The court has now been adjourned for lunch.
lostalex
19-02-2013, 11:30 AM
Based on the posts i've seen online, it seems the public are on his side. It seems people are still supporting him even though the evidence is overwhelming at this point...
It's almost like they are saying "she deserved it".
That seems to be the jist of alot of the support for him, that he's a successful athlete, and she was just a hot girl taking advantage of him, so certainly she must have done something to MAKE him do this. It must be her fault some how, some way...
That's crazy to me.
Based on the posts i've seen online, it seems the public are on his side.
That's crazy to me.
Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if "the public" turn on the Reeva who, after all, was only a woman, and worse, a "model" with other men "friends" - if there was any doubt in the case, I'm sure that would have already started, particularly in SA ..... :sad:
PS I see that you'd already edited your post to come to the same conclusion - great minds think alike ..... ;)
It's not that they're supporting him it's just shock and disbelief that one of their greatest sporting heroes and national icons would have done such a thing, it's a pretty incredible fall from grace
Kizzy
19-02-2013, 11:59 AM
Now then now then.... it is possible for people to be more than they appear to be?
Jesus.
19-02-2013, 12:11 PM
Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if "the public" turn on the Reeva who, after all, was only a woman, and worse, a "model" with other men "friends" - if there was any doubt in the case, I'm sure that would have already started, particularly in SA ..... :sad:
PS I see that you'd already edited your post to come to the same conclusion - great minds think alike ..... ;)
Whilst there is confusion around what happened, the public will always back a national icon. I believe he's completely guilty, and if this is the case, and the facts are ever fully known, the public won't be on his side.
Regardless of whether she was "just a model" or the the fact it's taking place "particularly in SA."
Other peoples sense of right and wrong isn't generally a product of their borders.
Now then now then.... it is possible for people to be more than they appear to be?
Well obviously, there's always more to people than merely how they appear in the public eye
lostalex
19-02-2013, 12:32 PM
Other peoples sense of right and wrong isn't generally a product of their borders.
are you joking? of course borders have a lot to do with justice systems. are you telling me gay people get proper justice in all countries beyond all borders? that women get treated equally in all countries?
What are you talking about??
Of course Country borders play a HUGE role in the court systems. Do you honestly think a woman or a gay victim can get justice in African or Arab countries?
...the South African justice system is different to ours and there is no trial by jury so it's legal to speculate about the case, which is what's happening...what is true and what is not, I'm not sure obviously..I do think it was murder yes, but whether it was premeditated has to be determined yet as we don't know the extent of this speculation...
..I do feel as well though that more focus in general should be on the fact that a young lady is dead and her life and the sadness of that before all attention is turned to him because he's not going anywhere and will be punished for his crime...hopefully....
Whilst there is confusion around what happened, the public will always back a national icon. I believe he's completely guilty, and if this is the case, and the facts are ever fully known, the public won't be on his side.
Regardless of whether she was "just a model" or the the fact it's taking place "particularly in SA."
Other peoples sense of right and wrong isn't generally a product of their borders.
Have you been to South Africa or have you got friends/relatives living there?
:conf:
Nedusa
19-02-2013, 12:52 PM
After reading all the reports of this case I must change my original thoughts that this could have been a tragic accident. It wasn't , when you read all the accounts of who was where and take into consideration the number of shots fired, where they were fired and the Bloodied bat and where he moved her to, none of it adds up. in fact using all the known facts about that night so far disclosed I cannot come up with a plausible story of how this could be self defence.
I think now we have to accept he did murder his Girlfriend and he should plead murder with diminished responsibility or under the influence of drugs. But he certainly took he life deliberately, this was never an accident.
Hope he gets full life term 25+ years in Jail, he cannot run away from the truth..!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21503370
South African athletics star Oscar Pistorius, who is charged with murdering his girlfriend, said he thought he was firing at an intruder when he shot her at his home.
In court, defence lawyer Barry Roux read a statement from Mr Pistorius saying the couple had decided to spend Thursday evening at home.
At one point, it said, he went to the balcony and heard a noise.
"It was pitch dark in the bedroom," it said. "I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable."
According to the statement, the defendant believed there was an intruder in the bathroom.
He went to the balcony without his prosthetic legs?
lostalex
19-02-2013, 01:00 PM
After reading all the reports of this case I must change my original thoughts that this could have been a tragic accident. It wasn't , when you read all the accounts of who was where and take into consideration the number of shots fired, where they were fired and the Bloodied bat and where he moved her to, none of it adds up. in fact using all the known facts about that night so far disclosed I cannot come up with a plausible story of how this could be self defence.
I think now we have to accept he did murder his Girlfriend and he should plead murder with diminished responsibility or under the influence of drugs. But he certainly took he life deliberately, this was never an accident.
Hope he gets full life term 25+ years in Jail, he cannot run away from the truth..!!!
I think you have come to a very reasonable conclusion. I agree.
Jesus.
19-02-2013, 01:21 PM
are you joking? of course borders have a lot to do with justice systems. are you telling me gay people get proper justice in all countries beyond all borders? that women get treated equally in all countries?
What are you talking about??
Of course Country borders play a HUGE role in the court systems. Do you honestly think a woman or a gay victim can get justice in African or Arab countries?
The point I was responding to, is the reaction of the people in support of the hero versus the model. I'm well aware that justice systems are corrupt around the world. South Africa actually has a fairly robust system with the scrapping of juries for judges.
Have you been to South Africa or have you got friends/relatives living there?
:conf:
Why?
Jesus.
19-02-2013, 01:22 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21503370
He went to the balcony without his prosthetic legs?
How can you think a woman (who was probably screaming/crying) in the bathroom could be an intruder?
He owes the truth to her family.
'I’m accutely aware of people gaining entries to homes to commit crime, I’ve received death threats.I sleep with my 9mm under my bed. I woke up to close the sliding door and heard a noise in the bathroom.
'I was scared and didn’t switch on the light. I got my gun and moved towards the bathroom. I screamed at the intruder because I did not have my legs on I felt vulnerable. I fired shots through the bathroom door and told Reeva to call police.
'I walked back to the bed and realised Reeva was not in bed. Its then it dawned on me it could be her in there.
'I kicked the door open. Called paramedics and complex security. I tried to carry her downstairs for help.I tried to help her but she died in my arms.
'With the benefit of hindsight I realise that Reeva went to the bathroom when I went to close the balcony door.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2280929/Oscar-Pistorius-Blade-Runner-sobs-prosecutor-accuses-premeditated-murder-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2LLpmYecU
GiRTh
19-02-2013, 01:38 PM
How did he kick the door open when he'd forgotten to put on his legs?
Sad tragic story but unfortunately the evidence points to a guilty verdict. I'm particualrly disturbed by the fact that he shot her 4 times. He certainly made sure she was dead. Nothing accidental about putting 4 rounds into someone.
South Africa seems the kind of country where guns are necessary. My parent in Jamaica have guns and they tell me stories of how they dont go out after a certain time at night cuz its too dangerous. However I doubt my dad would shoot someone 4 times then claim it was an accident.
The Mail headline says he claims he used the cricket bat to break the door down but then yeah the quote there says he kicked it down so :shrug:
What I don't get, even if you give him the benefit of the doubt that he did think he was shooting a burglar, why the need to kill the burglar, why not shoot to disable them somehow? Or am I just being dumb here in that assumption?
The Mail headline says he claims he used the cricket bat to break the door down but then yeah the quote there says he kicked it down so :shrug:
Yes, but this is the DailyMail you are talking about here. Don't they tend to contradict stuff.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2280929/Oscar-Pistorius-Blade-Runner-sobs-prosecutor-accuses-premeditated-murder-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2LLpmYecU
'I’m acutely aware of people gaining entries to homes to commit crime, I’ve received death threats. I sleep with my 9mm under my bed. I woke up to close the sliding door and heard a noise in the bathroom.
'I was scared and didn’t switch on the light. I got my gun and moved towards the bathroom. I screamed at the intruder because I did not have my legs on I felt vulnerable. I fired shots through the bathroom door and told Reeva to call police.
'I walked back to the bed and realised Reeva was not in bed. It's then it dawned on me it could be her in there.
It just doesn't sound right ..... :nono:
If he "screamed at the intruder" (alleged) then surely Reeva would have shouted back, thus identifying herself ..... :conf:
arista
19-02-2013, 04:50 PM
He is Making it up.
He would know someone was in his home.
Guilty
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21514428
As the prosecution began setting out its case on Wednesday, it said a witness had testified to hearing "non-stop talking like fighting" between the hours of 02:00 and 03:00.
Mr Pistorius claims he was asleep until only moments before the shooting and that there was no argument between the couple.
Ms Steenkamp was "dressed" at the time of the shooting, the prosecution said.
:idc:
http://news.sky.com/story/1054401/oscar-pistorius-prosecution-outlines-case
Investigating officer Hilton Botha has described the moment he arrived at the athlete's house in the early hours of the morning and found Miss Steenkamp's body lying on the ground floor.
She was dressed in white shorts and a black top, and covered in towels, he said.
The officer told the court that he saw a firearm on the shower mat, and bullet cartridges in the passageway and the bathroom.
The chances of Pistorius being given bail lessened at the first bail hearing on Tuesday after Magistrate Desmond Nair ruled the case a schedule six offence - meaning premeditated murder.
It means his lawyers now have to prove "exceptional circumstances" for him to be granted bail until he goes to trial.
Mr Botha told the court on Wednesday that Pistorius is a "flight risk" and could flee if given bail.
He said the athlete has offshore accounts and a house in Italy, and stresses that South Africa does not have extradition agreements with all countries.
"We don't want another Dewani case," he said - referring to Shrien Dewani, who is in the UK fighting extradition to South Africa where he is wanted on charges of plotting to kill his wife Anni in 2010.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing-day-two-live-coverage
Testosterone and steroids found at athlete's house – Botha: "We found two boxes of testosterone, needles and injections."
Pistorius faces additional charges for unlicenced ammunition
Nel recalls Pistorius saying he was worried about crime so kept a gun under his bed. Yet he went to bed with the balcony doors open, he asks.
He confirms Pistorius's statement that there were ladders found outside the house; it was being painted. But the ladders were not next to the bathroom window as the defence suggested, Botha says.
Balcony open, ladders outside?
Hardly security-conscious .....
Just reading the news items all again, see he fired shots through bathroom door. So there were bullet holes in the door then I take it? They couldn't have been fired seperately I suppose? Still bl**dy good shots through a door though, consdiering where they hit the target :o
Also I am damn sure in that situation I would have noticed, no matter how quickly I might have awoke or what time I had to reach for anything, if my partner was there beside me or not, not on returning to the bedroom.
Jesus.
20-02-2013, 11:28 AM
Just reading the news items all again, see he fired shots through bathroom door. So there were bullet holes in the door then I take it? They couldn't have been fired seperately I suppose? Still bl**dy good shots through a door though, consdiering where they hit the target :o
Also I am damn sure in that situation I would have noticed, no matter how quickly I might have awoke or what time I had to reach for anything, if my partner was there beside me or not, not on returning to the bedroom.
Are you, by any chance suggesting, that his story may not exactly add up?
Bit controversial.
Just reading the news items all again, see he fired shots through bathroom door. So there were bullet holes in the door then I take it? They couldn't have been fired seperately I suppose? Still bl**dy good shots through a door though, consdiering where they hit the target :o
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/65976000/gif/_65976826_pistorius_floor_plan624.gif
Reeva had no where to hide in the small toilet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21514428
Mr Botha was later put on the defensive when questioned by Mr Pistorius's lawyer.
He admitted one witness who heard arguing at the house was in her own home 600m (a third of a mile) away.
The testosterone found was actually a legal herbal remedy used by athletes, the defence said.
It said the post mortem showed Ms Steenkamp had an empty bladder consistent with someone getting up to go to the toilet, as detailed in Mr Pistorius's narrative.
It accused Mr Botha of putting the "worst possible interpretation" on the evidence.
:idc:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-case-police-blunders
The lead protagonist in another day of drama at Pretoria magistrates court was police detective Hilton Botha, whose arguments from the witness stand crumbled under cross-examination by the defence.
Botha initially asserted that he had found two boxes of "steroids" in Pistorius's bedroom, hastily changing this to "two boxes of testosterone, needles and injections". Later, questioned by advocate Barry Roux for the defence, Botha had to admit he could not be certain of the contents. Roux said it was a "herbal remedy" called testo-composutim co-enzyme used by many athletes, insisting: "It is not a steroid and it is not a banned substance."
Botha also told the court one of his witnesses had heard a fight, "two people talking loudly at each other", between 2 and 3am on 14 February. But, pressured by Roux, he conceded that the witness had not identified the voices as belonging to Pistorius and Steenkamp and lived some 600 metres away. There was a collective murmur from Pistorius's family. Botha later changed his estimate to 300 metres when questioned by the prosecution.
Botha acknowledged that Pistorius's legal team had found a spent bullet cartridge in the toilet bowl that his officers did not. He also confronted Botha, saying: "You were in the house walking with unprotected shoes. That should not happen." Botha conceded that it should not.
Botha said police found two iPhones in the bathroom and two BlackBerrys in the bedroom, adding that none had been used to phone for help. But Roux claimed the defence team had another phone in its possession that the police had failed to request. "Why did you not come to us and ask for Pistorius's cellphone number?" he asked.
Roux also took him to task for failing to check Pistorius's claim that he phoned the Netcare hospital at 3.20am.
Botha said ammunition for a .38-calibre weapon had been found at the house but Pistorius did not hold a licence for it. "Did you take steps to find out who the owner of the ammunition was?" Roux demanded. Botha replied: "No, I didn't."
Roux said a postmortem showed that Steenkamp's bladder was empty. He said that was consistent with her getting up at 3am to go to the toilet. Botha could not disagree.
Wilting under pressure, Botha conceded that he had initially said there would be "no problem" with Pistorius receiving bail but changed his mind after talking to forensics about "how it went down".
Yet asked repeatedly by Roux if he found anything at the scene inconsistent with the version of events presented by Pistorius in court on Tuesday, Botha confessed that he had not. Police "take every piece of evidence and try to extract the most possibly negative connotation and present it to the court", Roux said.
Oh dear, bungling cops ..... :hmph:
lostalex
21-02-2013, 06:20 AM
He'll probably get away with it. Like i said before... OJ Simpson version 2.0
AnnieK
21-02-2013, 06:23 AM
He'll probably get away with it. Like i said before... OJ Simpson version 2.0
This ^
After watching news reports of yesterday's court room action, my first thought was that he will be cleared.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21528631
The South African detective leading the Oscar Pistorius inquiry is facing seven charges of attempted murder, police have confirmed.
Detective Hilton Botha, who has faced fierce questioning at Mr Pistorius's bail hearing, was allegedly involved in a shooting two years ago.
Mr Pistorius, a Paralympic champion, denies the premeditated murder of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, 29.
His bail hearing has now resumed for a third day in Pretoria.
Reinstated charges
Police spokesman Neville Malila said that Det Botha and two other officers were due to appear in court in May.
Mr Malila said it was alleged that while driving a state-owned vehicle the three had opened fire on a minibus taxi loaded with passengers.
The three were arrested in 2011, Eyewitness News says, citing police.
Mr Malila said the charges against Det Botha had originally been dropped but were reinstated. It is unclear when this took place or whether Det Botha will continue working on the case.
Medupe Simasiku, a spokesman for the Pistorius prosecutors, told Associated Press they were unaware of the charges and would now investigate whether the detective should remain.
WTF ..... :eek:
Trigger-happy cops now ..... :eek:
:conf:http://news.sky.com/story/1054865/pistorius-cop-faces-attempted-murder-charges
Hilton Botha and two other officers reportedly opened fire on seven passengers in a taxi mini-bus in an attempt to stop it. It is alleged that the officers, who were on duty at the time, were drunk.
They were arrested after the event in October 2011 and charges were initially dropped but were reinstated by the state prosecutor in the days before the shooting of Reeva Steenkamp.
Prosecutors are understood to be in discussions with police about whether to drop Botha from the investigation, however, police are insisting that no decision has been made.
"whether to drop Botha" ..... :puzzled:
Surely, with serious charges against him, he shouldn't even be working, but suspended ..... :conf:
arista
21-02-2013, 10:03 AM
No he is still on ther case
South African Law
is like no other nation
AnnieK
21-02-2013, 11:21 AM
It just said on my radio news he's been taken off the case....although he's already done irreparable damage to it IMO....
Other peoples sense of right and wrong isn't generally a product of their borders.
Have you been to South Africa or have you got friends/relatives living there?
:conf:
Why?
If you have then your statement and its relevance to this case might have some credibility ..... :pipe:
1128: Thursday's hearing is currently paused for a lunch break
lostalex
21-02-2013, 11:38 AM
I really don't give a ****...
it realy puts the whole Michael Phelps smoking weed thing into perspective though, and even Lance Armstrong.
2 weeks ago we were worked up about Lance doping... well atleast Lance isn't a fooking MURDERER.
Lance Armstrong must be the happiest man on the planet lol, another sporting legend being a murderer, makes doping look pretty benign in comparison.
1147: The bail hearing recommences
1210: The South African Police Service is going to hold a news conference in two hours on the Oscar Pistorius case regarding the Detective Botha debacle
1241: The magistrate is calling for an abrupt adjournment of the hearing, mentioning a "threat of some kind" outside courtroom.
1257: Mr Roux has concluded and is now being questioned by Magistrate Desmond Nair who says the court has heard evidence that Mr Pistorius asked a friend to take the blame for an accidental gunshot fired in restaurant.
1304: The magistrate is questioning defence counsel Mr Roux about Oscar Pistorius's alleged history of threatening behaviour and violent language.
He'll probably get away with it. Like i said before... OJ Simpson version 2.0
I keep thinking the same, he will probably get off with it. Although I expect this case could take a while for any verdict to be reached.
Important to remember that we've largely just heard from the prosecution so far though, it's already turned out that one of their main witnesses is pretty unreliable
Jesus.
21-02-2013, 01:34 PM
If you have then your statement and its relevance to this case might have some credibility ..... :pipe:
That's just blanket ignorance, and you know it is because you always add the pipe smiley when you don't actually say anything, but you feel as though you've made the killer point.
Reductio ad absurdum.
You can only comment on a country if you've been there. And you still don't know whether I've been there or not, as it's really not relevant.
That's just blanket ignorance, and you know it is because you always add the pipe smiley when you don't actually say anything, but you feel as though you've made the killer point.
Reductio ad absurdum.
You can only comment on a country if you've been there. And you still don't know whether I've been there or not, as it's really not relevant.
As i thought, no cred ..... :shrug:
Evasio abscondit vacuae menti ..... :pipe:
1332: Prosecutor Gerrie Nel is starting his closing arguments in the bail hearing. Reports suggest it is unlikely the judge will rule on Mr Pistorius's bail application today.
Mr Nel insists the Paralympic champion "wants to continue with his life as if this incident never happened" and displays a "total lack of insight into the seriousness of what he's done".
1346: The validity of Mr Pistorius's sworn statement, or affidavit, is now coming under scrutiny by the prosecution.
Jesus.
21-02-2013, 02:00 PM
As i thought, no cred ..... :shrug:
Evasio abscondit vacuae menti ..... :pipe:
Please explain why you think I have no credibility to make a point about South Africa?
Does it boil down to the fact that you believe I haven't been there?
Can you just confirm to me, that is your opinion please?
I realise what I'm asking may be difficult for you to answer, as I'm not sure which site you can cut and paste your own opinions from, because it sure isn't this one.
1332: Prosecutor Gerrie Nel is starting his closing arguments in the bail hearing. Reports suggest it is unlikely the judge will rule on Mr Pistorius's bail application today.
Mr Nel insists the Paralympic champion "wants to continue with his life as if this incident never happened" and displays a "total lack of insight into the seriousness of what he's done".
1346: The validity of Mr Pistorius's sworn statement, or affidavit, is now coming under scrutiny by the prosecution.
:o You what! I bet that poor girl's family are wishing the incident never happened, or that she ever got together with Oscar Pistorius.
1400: Prosecutor Mr Nel says Mr Pistorius's actions were "indicative of a man ready and willing to fire to kill".
Mr Nel begins his attack on Mr Pistorius's character. According to the court reporters, Mr Nel raises an incident when Mr Pistorius was alleged to have let off a gun in public, but got his friend to take to blame.
The hearing is abruptly adjourned until 08:00 GMT on Friday. Magistrate Desmond Nair explains that administrative reasons of the court are to blame. Mr Pistorius will spend another night in police custody.
1414: Andrew Harding Africa correspondent The family of Mr Pistorius are filing out of the court, disappointed at the delay. A statement will be issued later. Meanwhile, prosecutor Gerrie Nel says his closing argument will take "not more than an hour" when the hearing resumes on Friday.
lostalex
21-02-2013, 02:25 PM
:o You what! I bet that poor girl's family are wishing the incident never happened, or that she ever got together with Oscar Pistorius.
yup, but she doesn';t get to go in front of a judge and beg to have her life back does she? nope, she's just dead. :(
Reeva doesn't get to ask for a judge to give HER life back.
She is not here to ask for justice, it is up to US to demand justice for her. let's remember that. Oscar still has his voice, Reeva does not.
We must be a voice for Reeva.
Please explain why you think I have no credibility to make a point about South Africa?
Does it boil down to the fact that you believe I haven't been there?
Can you just confirm to me, that is your opinion please?
With regard to the statement you made and which I queried, yes.
I assume that you will now tell me about your surfing/safari holiday in SA or your charity work amongst the impoverished farmers of Limpopo ..... :pipe:
Jesus.
21-02-2013, 02:34 PM
With regard to the statement you made and which I queried, yes.
I assume that you will now tell me about your surfing/safari holiday in SA or your charity work amongst the impoverished farmers of Limpopo ..... :pipe:
Nope. I haven't been to SA, and it's still not relevant. I just wanted you to clarify that you think the statement "I don't think peoples view of right or wrong is generally established by their borders (or something very similar)" Is defunct because I've never been to SA.
Go ahead, use the pipe smiley all you want, but that's insane.
Nope. I haven't been to SA, and it's still not relevant. I just wanted you to clarify that you think the statement "I don't think peoples view of right or wrong is generally established by their borders (or something very similar)" Is defunct because I've never been to SA.
Go ahead, use the pipe smiley all you want, but that's insane.
You should get out more ..... :pipe:
I've done most of Western Europe and parts of North Africa and had MY eyes opened ..... :amazed:
lostalex
21-02-2013, 02:57 PM
Can yu imagine if this was a major female sports star???
oh wait... #1 there are no major female sports stars and #2 women don't really abuse and murder men....
interesting...
Hmmm..... food for thought.
WTF is wrong with successful men?
Can yu imagine if this was a major female sports star???
oh wait... #1 there are no major female sports stars and #2 women don't really abuse and murder men....
interesting...
Hmmm..... food for thought.
WTF is wrong with successful men?
Umm..
"Tonya and Nancy" - Famous Figure Skating Scandal:
http://figureskating.about.com/od/famousfemaleiceskaters/p/harding.htm
Just before the 1994 Olympics, right after a practice session at the United States National Figure Skating Championships in Detroit, Michigan, Nancy Kerrigan was attacked and hit hard with a hard object on her knee. The accident made it impossible for her to compete and Tonya Harding won the Championship Ladies event.
Shortly after that, it was alleged that Tonya Harding might have been part of the conspiracy to hurt Nancy. Tonya was banned from U.S. Figure Skating for life.
Did Zola Budd Trip Mary Decker? Olympic Distance Running Controversy
http://trackandfield.about.com/od/longdistance/a/contrvrsydistan.htm
Did Zola Budd trip Mary Decker in 1984? The video was inconclusive but there’s no doubt that the 3000-meter race produced one of the greatest controversies in Olympic track and field history.
Budd was already a well-known and controversial competitor prior to the Los Angeles Games. The barefoot runner was born in South Africa, which was then banned from the Olympics due to its government’s apartheid policy. When Budd applied for British citizenship in early 1984 her request was expedited and she became a British citizen in time to compete in Los Angeles where she earned a spot in the 3000 final.
Just past the midpoint of the race, with Budd slightly ahead of Decker, the two came in contact but neither broke stride. Moments later, however, Budd moved lower on the track and Decker stepped on Budd’s heel, causing Budd to stumble and Decker to trip over Budd. Budd got up and continued but never drew back into contention. Decker remained down with an injured thigh. Romania’s Maricica Puica went on to win the race.
Decker angrily blamed Budd for the incident, saying there was “no doubt” that Budd was at fault. Track officials initially agreed, disqualifying Budd for obstruction, but reversed their decision after reviewing tapes of the race, which seemed to indicate that Budd’s move, while perhaps a bit abrupt, was made in reaction to other runners’ movements and was unintentional. In any event, the tangle cost both runners the chance for an Olympic medal in 1984.
But I don't recall any female athlete murder involvement .....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21536888
A top South African detective is to take over the Oscar Pistorius investigation amid murder accusations against the current lead officer.
Hilton Botha faces seven counts of attempted murder, police confirmed.
Commissioner Mangwashi Phiyega announced the change after a third dramatic day of testimony at Mr Pistorius' bail hearing.
:pipe:
lostalex
21-02-2013, 03:34 PM
Umm..
name a successful female south african sports star and i'll tell you if i've heard of her..
name a successful female south african sports star and i'll tell you if i've heard of her..
So now you're restricting it to South African females not just female sport stars in general?
There are a lot more global female sports stars than there are disabled ones
lostalex
21-02-2013, 03:42 PM
So now you're restricting it to South African females not just female sport stars in general?
There are a lot more global female sports stars than there are disabled ones
what? yur confusing me now. obviously i'm not saying female sports stars in general. America has a ton of female sports stars. (serena williams, abby wambach, hope solo, lindsay vonn, danica patrick, gabby douglas and the rest of the fierce five gymnastics team) America has tons of female athletes.
I'm saying South Africa, because obviously South Africa doesn't even have many male sports starts, and i can't think of any south african female sports stars. are ther any? I was pointing out how he's their one superstar, and also south africa is very sexist.
Doesn't the president of South Africa own like 7 wives? that's ******ed up.
Shasown
22-02-2013, 01:06 AM
what? yur confusing me now. obviously i'm not saying female sports stars in general. America has a ton of female sports stars. (serena williams, abby wambach, hope solo, lindsay vonn, danica patrick, gabby douglas and the rest of the fierce five gymnastics team) America has tons of female athletes.
I'm saying South Africa, because obviously South Africa doesn't even have many male sports starts, and i can't think of any south african female sports stars. are ther any? I was pointing out how he's their one superstar, and also south africa is very sexist.
Doesn't the president of South Africa own like 7 wives? that's ******ed up.
Well off topic now.
Please dont let any real facts get in the way of your ignorance.
Doesnt the president of the US only own one wife? What a poor poor fellow
Brother Leon
22-02-2013, 01:11 AM
Can yu imagine if this was a major female sports star???
oh wait... #1 there are no major female sports stars and #2 women don't really abuse and murder men....
interesting...
Hmmm..... food for thought.
WTF is wrong with successful men?
The **** does that have to do with anything?
0908: Mr Nel has now finished his closing arguments. The court is taking a short break and then Mr Pistorius' lawyer, Barry Roux, will respond.
I have to say as a South African one of the strangest things about this case is no mention of a panic button.
I have lived in secure complex's (not as nice as Oscar's )and there are always several panic buttons ,especially one beside the bed.
Oscar's lawyer has told magistrate that he thought there was an intruder and then went to the bed to get gun .I find it hard to believe there was no panic button beside the bed.
I have to say as a South African one of the strangest things about this case is no mention of a panic button.
I have lived in secure complex's (not as nice as Oscar's )and there are always several panic buttons ,especially one beside the bed.
Oscar's lawyer has told magistrate that he thought there was an intruder and then went to the bed to get gun .I find it hard to believe there was no panic button beside the bed.
That's a good point - perhaps by the time of the trial the police may have thought about it, too !
0941: The hearing has now resumed and defence lawyer Barry Roux is on his feet to present his arguments.
0949: Defence lawyer Barry Roux has been giving a legal masterclass about the difference between "dolus directis" and "dolus eventualis". In layman's terms, dolus directis is when you always intended an action - ie, the victim was the intended target - and dolus eventualis is when your action produces an unintended consequence - ie, the victim was not the intended target. Mr Roux is arguing that Mr Pistorius' case is the second category.
0959: Mr Roux has finished his arguments and the magistrate has told the courtroom that the bail decision will be delivered at 14:30 local time (12:30 GMT).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21543851
Andrew Harding
Africa correspondent
It's been the quiet, rather overlooked subtext to the drama and detail emerging from Courtroom C over the past few days: the shambolic state of South Africa's police force.
Exhibit A is, of course, Detective Hilton Botha, newly dismissed from his role as lead investigator in the Reeva Steenkamp murder case.
It was almost painful to watch his testimony to the court - selective, speculative, and clearly loyal to the prosecution - being picked apart by a highly paid defence lawyer until the detective was forced to concede that all his bold assumptions about Oscar Pistorius's guilt were, on the current evidence, unsustainable.
But between those uncomfortable admissions lay another story, of an underpaid policeman arriving for an important job without the necessary equipment - shoe covers - to avoid contaminating the murder scene, and without enough "connections" - his word - or colleagues, to ensure that the most basic evidence could be processed in time for the bail hearing.
He had no records yet of Reeva Steenkamp's mobile phone calls, no information about the post-mortem, no forensic or ballistic information beyond a few informal conversations with experts at the scene.
Other evidence about alleged "testosterone" proved wrong and the defence said its own investigators had found a bullet cartridge clumsily overlooked by the police.
Given that this is perhaps the most high-profile murder investigation that South Africa has seen in years, it makes you wonder what happens in other, more ordinary, cases.
It also makes you begin to understand why, for instance, the conviction rate for alleged rapists is pitifully low, and why so many police dockets are reported to "disappear" from the files, allowing suspects to walk free.
The suspiciously timed announcement that attempted murder charges have been reinstated against Detective Botha lends itself to speculation, both about the politicised power struggles within the state prosecutors' office, and about a national police force scrambling to save face under the glare of the international media.
But to me it also speaks to South Africa's notorious wealth gap, and to a culture where lavishly paid senior officials - be they politicians, police bureaucrats or defence attorneys - appear to live in a very different world from the underfunded, underequipped foot soldiers struggling to get a grip on this country's enduring crime problem.
:idc:
1254: Magistrate Desmond Nair summarising the defence case (in detail)
1309: Magistrate Desmond Nair is now recapping the evidence of the original investigating officer, Warrant Officer Hilton Botha (in detail)
1328: Magistrate Desmond Nair has now moved on to discuss the history of bail in the Republic of South Africa (in detail)
He don't 'alf go on ..... :bored:
Now he's banging on about how bloody paragraphs and schedules (sub-section small a) ..... :shrug:
1339: The court adjourns for five minutes.
You'd think this was a trial and he was the hanging judge ..... :rolleyes:
We apologise for the delay on the bail decision - the magistrate just loves hearing the sound of his own voice ..... :sleep:
We MAY get a decision soon, but then again it could be deferred until Monday if the magistrate hasn't completed his pontification ..... :conf2:
He's been granted bail :shocked: surprised considering the charge
1424: Magistrate Desmond Nair said in view of the "totality of the evidence" he concludes Mr Pistorius should be granted bail while he awaits trial for murder.
1442: Magistrate Desmond Nair has set bail conditions - Mr Pistorius must deposit 1m rand (£73,823) in cash and guarantees, he must hand over his passport, avoid his home in Pretoria and report to a police station between 07:00 and 13:00 every Monday and Friday.
1449: Mr Pistorius is next due in court on 4 June but his trial may not be for many months. Magistrate Desmond Nair also ordered him to give up all his firearms as a condition of bail.
IMO, there will be a public outcry in SA and he will be far from safe for some time to come.
1520: The AFP news agency reports that as part of the bail conditions, magistrate Desmond Nair also said Mr Pistorius "shall refrain from using any prohibited substance and or alcohol".
Are you pleased he has got bail Omah?
Munchkins
22-02-2013, 03:30 PM
Wow he's been granted bail :shocked:
Drew.
22-02-2013, 03:35 PM
pretty shocked he's been given bail
Are you pleased he has got bail Omah?
Certainly not ..... :nono:
He's a violent, and now desperate man, with a career in ruins and, whatever the charge, a certain prison sentence for murder in the offing.
There's still more to this case than has so far met the eye, e.g. why did Pistorious go for his gun and not what should have been available - a panic button (to call the guards) ..... :conf:
Munchkins
22-02-2013, 03:43 PM
This case really is confusing me, why has he been given bail
ANC women's league: 'What is distressing is the reaction of some men in court who jumped up and celebrated ... as if they had won a trophy'.
This case really is confusing me, why has he been given bail
Izzit cos he is rich and white ..... :wink:
1547: The Reuters news agency reports that a car believed to be carrying Oscar Pistorius has left Pretoria magistrates court, pursued by motorcycles.
arista
22-02-2013, 03:55 PM
ANC women's league: 'What is distressing is the reaction of some men in court who jumped up and celebrated ... as if they had won a trophy'.
Yes is this
OJ again.
Cherie
22-02-2013, 03:56 PM
ANC women's league: 'What is distressing is the reaction of some men in court who jumped up and celebrated ... as if they had won a trophy'.
Not following this case too closely but I was a bit dismayed when some friends of his on exiting the court a few days ago were laughing that it has been a good day for the defence, I felt it was totally inappropriate, I think it might even have been the day Reeva was cremated, it just looked wrong. I believe he will not be convicted of this crime, but for me at the moment his story appears to be full of discrepancies.
arista
22-02-2013, 03:58 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/22/article-2282692-1831FAAF000005DC-790_634x423.jpg
You are a Guilty Evil Punk
in a corrupt country.
If only the Bloated BBC would say that
the truth
22-02-2013, 03:59 PM
the reason hes been given bail are as follows.
1) the police investigator on the prosecution is actually currently being accused of attempted murder himself so is totally discredited already
2) the officer and his team stated incorrectly they found steroids , when it was in fact herbal remedy
3) theyve failed to disprove oscars story, which was he got up in the dark without his leg splints, he crawled to the door and closed curtains in another room, heard noises in bathroom , panicked and demanded to know who was in there. he claimed he felt scared and vulnerable as he didnt have his legs on and shot 4 times.
the main argument now seems to be the trajectory of the bullets....defence says they were fired from an angle low enough to justify oscars story of being near the floor, the prosecution claims the bullets were from too high an angle for that to be possible.
oscar claims he only realised his gf was misisng when he returned to the bedroom and put the lights on
it does sound far fetched, but maybe he will get off the way OJ did due to police corruption and incompetence
the truth
22-02-2013, 04:01 PM
ANC women's league: 'What is distressing is the reaction of some men in court who jumped up and celebrated ... as if they had won a trophy'.
if they did that is wrong, though Ive not seen it. I hate guns and I hate gun culture. sadly its a disease in s africa. possibly worse than in america.
Jesus.
22-02-2013, 04:15 PM
If I woke up in the middle of the night with my gf next to me, but a possible intruder in the house, the first thing I'd do is make sure that I knew exactly where she was, and that she was safe.
the truth
22-02-2013, 04:18 PM
If I woke up in the middle of the night with my gf next to me, but a possible intruder in the house, the first thing I'd do is make sure that I knew exactly where she was, and that she was safe.
good point. how did he not notice whether she was next to him in the bed?
Nedusa
22-02-2013, 05:36 PM
I watched the Magistrate's very detailed explanation of why Bail was being granted and I agree with his decision.
joeysteele
22-02-2013, 10:24 PM
Whatever the result or truth of this case once the official trial is concluded, all I can say I was very glad I wasn't the one waiting for this Magistrate's decision.
I thought he was never going to stop talking,he certainly made sure he had his moment of fame.
lostalex
23-02-2013, 02:35 AM
he's got bail... are we gonna see white flight? perhaps the ecuadorian embassy can offer him asylum.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21554329
Andrew Harding
Africa correspondent
It's probably fair to assume that the prosecution team never expected to win the argument against bail. Instead their strategy was to force Oscar Pistorius to show his hand, giving a full account of his version of events in order to counter the premeditated murder charge raised at the bail hearing.
Now the prosecution, with a brand new high-profile detective leading the investigation, has the luxury of months to pick apart the athlete's sworn statement and measure it against the forensic evidence that will soon appear.
Interestingly, the prosecutor and magistrate today both raised, in abstract terms, the possibility of the charges against Oscar Pistorius being reduced from murder to culpable homicide - something which could mean a fine or suspended sentence rather than a long jail term.
I hope not ..... :mad:
Nedusa
23-02-2013, 10:13 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21554329
Andrew Harding
Africa correspondent
I hope not ..... :mad:
I hope not too, but as I see it both legal teams have a few months to try and make their version of events seem plausible, if the prosecution believe OP story is possible and the forensics do not show evidence to the contrary then they will probably reduce the charge or go for a plea bargain.
However if the state shows using forensic evidence that the defence story is impossible then I'm afraid Mr Pistorious is gonna have to get used to the inside of a Prison Cell for a very long time ...!!!!
Brother Leon
23-02-2013, 02:10 PM
ANC women's league: 'What is distressing is the reaction of some men in court who jumped up and celebrated ... as if they had won a trophy'.
Have they never been in a courtroom?
Have they never been in a courtroom?
Probably not one where the man who had shot his girlfriend four times was released on bail ..... :shrug:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21558901
South African athlete Oscar Pistorius "will have to live with his conscience" over the killing of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, her father has said.
Barry Steenkamp was speaking a day after the Paralympic champion was freed on bail pending his trial.
Mr Pistorius, 26, admits shooting Ms Steenkamp, 29, but denies murder, saying he mistook her for an intruder.
"If it didn't happen the way he says it did he must suffer and he will suffer," her father told Beeld newspaper.
"It does not matter how much money he has and how good his legal team is, he will have to live with his conscience," Mr Steenkamp said.
Yeah, some consolation for the Steenkamps ..... but they'd rather have Reeva ..... :sad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudine_Longet
Claudine Longet (born 29 January 1942) is a French singer and recording artist who was popular during the 1960s and 1970s. She was found guilty of misdemeanor criminal negligence in the 1976 death of her live-in boyfriend, professional skier Spider Sabich.
Born in Paris, France, Longet was married to pop singer Andy Williams from 1961 until 1975. She was arrested and charged with fatally shooting her boyfriend, Olympic skier Vladimir "Spider" Sabich, at his Aspen, Colorado, home on 21 March 1976. At her trial Longet said the gun discharged accidentally as Sabich was showing her how it worked. Williams publicly supported Longet throughout the trial, even escorting her to and from the courthouse.
The Aspen police made two procedural errors that aided Longet's defense: without warrants, they took a blood sample from her; and they confiscated her diary. According to prosecutors, the sample showed the presence of cocaine in her blood, and her diary reportedly contradicted her claim that her relationship with Sabich had not soured. In addition, the gun was mishandled by non-weapons experts. As they were unable to cite any of the disallowed material, prosecutors used the autopsy report to suggest that when Sabich was shot he was bent over, facing away, and at least 1.80 m (6 ft) from Longet, which would be inconsistent with the position and relative distance of someone demonstrating the operation of a firearm.
The jury convicted her of a lesser charge "misdemeanor criminal negligence" and sentenced her to pay a small fine and spend 30 days in jail. The judge allowed Longet to choose the days to be served, believing that this arrangement would allow her to spend the most time with her children. She chose to serve most of her sentence on weekends. (Critical reaction to the verdict and sentencing was exacerbated when she subsequently vacationed with her defense attorney, Ron Austin, who was married at the time; Longet and Austin later married and still live in Aspen.) After the criminal trial, the Sabich family initiated civil proceedings to sue Longet. The case was eventually resolved out of court, with the provision that Longet never tell or write about her story.
In 1980, Mick Jagger wrote a song about Spider Sabich's death that was intended to be on the Rolling Stones album Emotional Rescue. The song, titled "Claudine", carried lyrics that painted a graphic picture of some of the more salacious aspects of the affair and killing. However, it was deemed too controversial and was removed, although it was included on several bootleg Rolling Stones albums. In November 2011, the track "Claudine" was released on the Rolling Stones' deluxe reissue of their album Some Girls.
I have a copy of that track ..... :idc:
lostalex
23-02-2013, 04:26 PM
Omah is making the most sense in this thread. well done omah.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21558901
South African athlete Oscar Pistorius "will have to live with his conscience" over the killing of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, her father has said.
Barry Steenkamp was speaking a day after the Paralympic champion was freed on bail pending his trial.
Mr Pistorius, 26, admits shooting Ms Steenkamp, 29, but denies murder, saying he mistook her for an intruder.
"If it didn't happen the way he says it did he must suffer and he will suffer," her father told Beeld newspaper.
"It does not matter how much money he has and how good his legal team is, he will have to live with his conscience," Mr Steenkamp said.
Yeah and Reeva's family and friends will now have to live with knowing they will never see her again, because that so and so took her life and seemingly feels little remorse for doing so by reading some of the stuff being said in that court. How little did he value his girlfriend's life one has to wonder :( because he seems to come across as having little regard for her Family and Friends feelings at their loss :(
Kizzy
23-02-2013, 04:36 PM
I agree, I have often thought :pipe: was the answer to just about any discussion ever.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/feb/22/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-bail-video
arista
23-02-2013, 05:13 PM
he's got bail... are we gonna see white flight? perhaps the ecuadorian embassy can offer him asylum.
He needs someone to drive him to another nation
hidden.
Then he can Fly
If he goes
then we know the truth.
Tom4784
23-02-2013, 05:13 PM
I don't know what to think of this case really.
arista
23-02-2013, 05:35 PM
I don't know what to think of this case really.
Dezzy
he is 100% Guilty
I mean Feck Me - He shot her through her hand into her head
What do you want another OJ?
Dezzy Never go on Court Duty
Bluerang1
24-02-2013, 08:12 AM
People need to stop focusing on him and remember that an innocent woman died.
His case is stupid. Had Reeva not ever gone to the the bathroom before?
I don't see a reason for him to kill her so he could get away with it. But his case is stupid, you killed her, face the punishment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21563911
The brother of South African athlete Oscar Pistorius - accused of murdering his girlfriend - is also facing trial over the death of a woman.
Carl Pistorius is charged with culpable homicide over the death of a woman motorcyclist in a traffic accident, his lawyer said.
The charges against Carl Pistorius over an accident involving his car in which a woman on a motorcycle died date back to 2010 but have only just emerged, local media reports say.
They were confirmed to the BBC by Pistorius family lawyer Kenneth Oldwage.
The accident took place in the town of Vanderbijlpark, an hour's drive south of Johannesburg.
Police conducted tests on Carl Pistorius and he was found to have no alcohol in his blood at the time, the BBC's Milton Nkosi in Johannesburg says.
He is due in court at the end of March, which means his trial may end before his younger brother Oscar's is due to begin on 4 June.
WTF ..... :eek:
How many other "homicides" in the Pistorius family ..... :conf:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/pistorius-brother-charged-over-fatal-crash-20130224-2ezgp.html#ixzz2LoISFEOt
Carl Pistorius allegedly killed a female motorcyclist while driving outside Johannesburg, his lawyer Kenny Oldwage confirmed to eNews Africa Channel and Eyewitness News.
Prosecutors accused Carl Pistorius of driving recklessly in the accident.
Oldwage denies the charges and told the TV channel that Carl Pistorius was not drunk.
Oldwage says the woman died because she drove into Carl Pistorius’s car, the New York Post reports.
Carl Pistorius is charged with culpable homicide, a lesser charge than the premeditated murder case against his brother.
The charge carries a possible 15-year prison term. Carl’s trial was supposed to begin last Friday, the same day his Olympian brother was freed on bail.
But the case was postponed until next month.
The "developments" in this case almost beggar belief ..... :idc:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2284048/Oscar-Pistorius-aunt-Micki-I-condone-serial-killers-I-understand-them.html
The aunt of alleged murderer Oscar Pistorius is one of South Africa's criminal profilers, it has been revealed.
Micki Pistorius, 52, is the author of 'Profiling Serial Killers and other crimes in South Africa' and spent six years in the country's police department as founder of an investigative psychology unit.
During her role, she was involved in more than 30 serial killer cases and helped train nearly 200 detectives in the investigation of serial homicides.
She regularly attended court with the rest of the Pistorius family during his bail hearing last week, but has not made any public comment about his case as yet.
A prosecution lawyer confirmed to The Independent yesterday that Dr Pistorius will not be consulted about her nephew's psychology due to her family ties - although the issue is likely to be discussed in court.
The athlete has been accused of having 'a propensity for violence' during his bail hearing but magistrate Desmond Nair said he was not satisfied this had been proven.
In her book 'Catch Me A Killer', Dr Pistorius claimed to have extra-sensory powers of perception which she called 'cryptesthesia'.
She has also made controversial comments about killers saying: 'Serial killers are not monsters; they are human beings with tortured souls. I will never condone what they do, but I can understand them.'
ESP, my arse ..... :suspect:
Pistorius is due to report at Brooklyn police station in eastern Pretoria before 1pm local time (11am GMT) in what will also mark his first public appearance since being released on bail on Friday.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Confusion-over-Pistoriuss-cop-shop-check-in-20130225
Pretoria - There seems to be some confusion as to whether Oscar Pistorius does indeed have to present himself at the Brooklyn police station, a report said on Monday.
Eyewitness News said it had been told by a National Prosecuting Authority official that it was not a requirement of bail.
Despite the State and defence agreeing that the paralympian should present himself at the police station, this is not specified in Pistorius’s bail order.
Police officials have also been trying to establish the details of the order from the prosecuting authority, EWN said.
Arnold Pistorius, the sprinter’s uncle, was however spotted driving past the police station earlier on Monday.
Yet another cock-up ..... :conf:
On Friday :
1442: Magistrate Desmond Nair has set bail conditions - Mr Pistorius must deposit 1m rand (£73,823) in cash and guarantees, he must hand over his passport, avoid his home in Pretoria and report to a police station between 07:00 and 13:00 every Monday and Friday.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/oscar-pistorius-not-required-to-report-to-police-court-335281
Pretoria: Star athlete Oscar Pistorius, who has been charged with murdering his girlfriend, does not have to report to police as part of his bail terms contrary to previous reports, a clerk at Pretoria Magistrate Court clerk said on Monday.
"It is not part of his bail conditions," the clerk told AFP.
The bail order document seen by AFP confirmed it was not one of the terms.
The 26-year-old double amputee athlete known as the "Blade Runner" was released on a one million rand ($112,408) bond on Friday.
He was expected to report to the Brooklyn police station in Pretoria on Monday morning, where a large contingent of local and international media were waiting, but did not turn up.
Earlier reports had said that Pistorius had to sign in at the police station on Mondays and Fridays between 0500 GMT and 1100 GMT.
But the condition had been a suggestion from defence and prosecution teams that the magistrate, Desmond Nair, had not included in his final order, a prosecution official confirmed.
"The NPA (National Prosecuting Authority) has confirmed that the condition that he report to the Brooklyn police station has not been made an order of court," the official told AFP.
So, did the magistrate say one thing and do another or did the whole world's press get it wrong ..... :puzzled:
Pistorius May Ask to Ease Bail Conditions, Lawyer Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-25/pistorius-may-ask-to-ease-bail-conditions-lawyer-says.html
Feb 25, 2013 8:57 AM GMT.
Oscar Pistorius, the double-amputee track star charged with the murder of his girlfriend, is considering asking the court to ease bail conditions that include reporting to police twice a week, his lawyer Kenny Oldwage said.
“He just really wants to get on with his life,” Oldwage said by phone today.
:suspect:
http://www.startribune.com/world/192839161.html
JOHANNESBURG - A spokeswoman for Oscar Pistorius says he has reported to authorities in South Africa's capital, Pretoria, under the bail terms in the murder case against him.
Lunice Johnston said Monday that the double-amputee Olympic athlete visited correctional officers, but she did not specify their location in the city.
So, is the deal so that he can avoid the press?
Pistorius May Ask to Ease Bail Conditions, Lawyer Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-25/pistorius-may-ask-to-ease-bail-conditions-lawyer-says.html
Feb 25, 2013 8:57 AM GMT.
Oscar Pistorius, the double-amputee track star charged with the murder of his girlfriend, is considering asking the court to ease bail conditions that include reporting to police twice a week, his lawyer Kenny Oldwage said.
“He just really wants to get on with his life,” Oldwage said by phone today.
:suspect:
FFS! What an unfeeling git he is. He doesn't seem to comprehend the seriousness of what he has done, or doesn't want to, and the thing is he will probably get away with it :mad:
FFS! What an unfeeling git he is. He doesn't seem to comprehend the seriousness of what he has done, or doesn't want to, and the thing is he will probably get away with it :mad:
Well, he's already getting preferential treatment ..... :suspect:
I doubt that he would be allowed such freedom if he were a black athlete, limbless or not ..... :hmph:
Well the chief magistrate who made the decision is himself black so I can't imagine race was a determining factor in his decision..
Kizzy
25-02-2013, 01:22 PM
I don't think it's a case of racial bias more hero worship, I think some think she threw herself in front of those bullets... :idc:
Brother Leon
25-02-2013, 01:23 PM
Well, he's already getting preferential treatment ..... :suspect:
I doubt that he would be allowed such freedom if he were a black athlete, limbless or not ..... :hmph:
What a stupid thing to say.
What a stupid thing to say.
Who are you calling stupid?
:conf:
Well the chief magistrate who made the decision is himself black so I can't imagine race was a determining factor in his decision..
Really ..... :rolleyes:
Yes, really :rolleyes: it seems like you're just making these unfounded claims because you're bitter that there's room for doubt that he didn't actually intend to kill his girlfriend
Yes, really :rolleyes: it seems like you're just making these unfounded claims because you're bitter that there's room for doubt that he didn't actually intend to kill his girlfriend
Really ..... :rolleyes:
I thought I was criticing the SA judicial system ..... :pipe:
This is what happens to white men who ARE jailed before court proceedings in SA :
Businessman Tells of South African Prison Rape that Left Him HIV Positive
Sean Smith, a business partner of rugby star Gareth Thomas, said he was attacked up to eight times a day during his 19-month stay in St Alban’s jail after his arrest on suspicion of a multi-million-pound fraud.
The 42-year-old, was targeted in a cell he shared with 90 inmates in 2007.
‘They did it not just as part of gang dominance but in my case it was showing supremacy over a white man—I was the only one there,’ he said.
‘It went on for months—there wasn’t much left of me by then anyway . . . I was pretty much a skeleton.’
After nine months in the jail 30km (17 miles) out of Port Elizabeth, Mr Smith tested positive for HIV.
‘At that point I didn’t give a damn, I was broken, I was broken physically, mentally, I had nothing left I had no spirit at all so I didn’t care,’ he added.
After being granted bail, Mr Smith, from Glamorgan, South Wales, hid in the boot of a British High Commission car and crossed into Lesotho.
He has since been diagnosed with a lymphoma on the brain.
90 (all black) inmates in a cell - kept like cattle - under an alleged "black" judicial system ..... :hmph:
Sean Smith, presumably, had no SA "connections" - Pistorius has plenty ..... :pipe:
Brother Leon
25-02-2013, 02:22 PM
People on the whole are so hungry for scandal and **** that it looks like they are actually hoping he actually did it on purpose.
People on the whole are so hungry for scandal and **** that it looks like they are actually hoping he actually did it on purpose.
Yeah, I know what you mean ..... :xyxwave:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/25/oscar-pistorius-reports-authorities-bail
Oscar Pistorius, the Paralympic star accused of his girlfriend's murder, has reported to correctional services as required by his bail terms, his spokeswoman said.
Lunice Johnston of Vuma Reputation Management said the double-amputee athlete had visited correctional officers in Pretoria but she was not told when or where.
A big media contingent had gathered at Brooklyn police station in the South African capital on Monday morning to await Pistorius, but Johnston said it was no longer a police matter.
"The uncle, Arnold Pistorius, confirmed it is now a matter for correctional services, so Oscar has to report to correctional services authorities," she said. "I don't know where."
She doesn't know much then ..... if she's not aware of what her client's up to, how is she going to manage his reputation ..... :rolleyes:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/25/oscar-pistorius-southafrica-justice
Since news broke of the shooting of Reeva Steenkamp on the morning of Valentine's Day, Oscar Pistorius has been at the top of the global news agenda. As the intense bail hearing progressed last week, the South African criminal justice system has also been on trial.
It is truly unprecedented that international news channels interrupt normal programming for close to two hours to broadcast live audio from a Pretoria magistrate. Because Desmond Nair would not allow television cameras in his courtroom, they were forced to show static file images or live footage from outside the court while Nair's ruling on Pistorius's bail application was broadcast.
During the hearing, the world listened while the cross-examination of the former investigating officer, Hilton Botha, revealed the propensity of police to bungle cases, either through negligence or incompetence. But it was the way Botha was recharged for attempted murder which exposed that the discord between the police and prosecutors, which almost led to violent confrontations between the two arms of state during the corruption trial of former police chief Jackie Selebi, has not gone away.
Meanwhile ministers of justice and crime prevention briefed the media on Sunday on the work of their departments, hoping to counter negative perceptions of widespread crime and corruption affecting the country's image.
The ministers gave brief information on interventions to clamp down on violent protests, reduce case backlogs, focus on violence against women and children, fight corruption and fill vacancies in senior posts of the criminal justice system. They announced that the government will publish the names of government officials convicted of corruption. "In the next few days, we will be publishing all the names of people who have been convicted in cases of corruption and all those whose assets have either been frozen or have been forfeited to the state," Radebe said.
But what better way to demonstrate that justice is being done than through the high-profile cases that have caught the world's attention? The brutal rape and murder of Bredasdorp teenager Anene Booysen* turned the spotlight on South Africa's alarming rape statistics and shocking levels of violence against women and children. The Booysen case will obviously be watched closely in and outside the country to monitor the course of justice against the alleged perpetrators, whether the punishment will be commensurate to the levels of violence executed on the victim and how this compares to international practice. The international media has already compared the attack on Booysen and South Africa's reaction to it to a similar gang rape of an Indian woman in December; the punishment meted out is bound to provoke similar comparisons.
Despite all this, the Booysen case is going through the normal grind of the justice system. While Zuma acknowledged her attack in his State of the Nation Address and used it to condemn the high rates of sexual violence against women, there has not been any demonstrable action by the government to show that the Booysen rape and murder is a priority.
Not for the squeamish :
* 17-year-old Anene Booysen, from a small town in the Southern Cape, was not only gang raped on the evening of February 1st, but had her stomach cut open, her throat slit and her intestines physically pulled out by her attackers. Left for dead with broken arms and legs, this brave woman managed to identify one of her attackers, reportedly her ex-boyfriend, before she passed.
http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/171542/tears-for-anene-booysen/#ixzz2LvZsmROY
South Africa has one of the highest rates of sexual violence in the world. Police figures show that 64,000 cases were reported last year.
A second man has been charged in a South African court with the brutal gang rape and murder of 17-year-old Anene Booysen in a case which has shocked the nation.
Jonathan Davids hid his face after the court ruled that the media should not show his face, or that of Johannes Kana, who was charged earlier.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21428377
Jack_
25-02-2013, 04:18 PM
People on the whole are so hungry for scandal and **** that it looks like they are actually hoping he actually did it on purpose.
Especially if it suits their anti-sport, anti-Olympics agenda.
Me. I Am Salman
25-02-2013, 04:25 PM
Lock the bastard up
Especially if it suits their anti-sport, anti-Olympics agenda.
Yeah, those people are the worst ..... :laugh3:
the truth
25-02-2013, 08:15 PM
ive heard today she arrived late at the house and he may not have known she was in the house at all? if thats the case she would have needed her own key surely?? thats the danger with second guessing without knowing enough facts
ive heard today she arrived late at the house and he may not have known she was in the house at all? if thats the case she would have needed her own key surely?? thats the danger with second guessing without knowing enough facts
It seems that you were misinformed :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/9891359/Oscar-Pistorius-last-image-of-Reeva-Steenkamp-alive-emerges.html
The last picture of Reeva Steenkamp alive has emerged, with the publication of leaked CCTV footage of the model arriving at Oscar Pistorius’s house the night she died showing her seemingly happy and relaxed.
Smiling and looking relaxed, Reeva Steenkamp drives up to the guarded entrance of the home of Oscar Pistorius.
Only minutes later, the Paralympic champion passes through the same security checkpoint.
Within hours, 29-year-old Miss Steenkamp was dead, shot four times by Pistorius, who claims he mistook her for an intruder at his home on the Silver Woods estate in Pretoria.
It seems likely, therefore, that her car would be in his driveway when he arrived home, surely an indicator that she was nearby (or even already inside) ..... :pipe:
Redway
25-02-2013, 10:11 PM
Who are you calling stupid?
:conf:
Why does every serious debate on here turn into some silly, shark-jumped argument about racism?
What's happened is truly sickening and heart-breaking. Ethnicity, or other external, insignificant factors, needn't come into it. Particularly not for this kind of thread. Allow it. :bored:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/02/a-plea-bargain-for-oscar-pistorius.html#ixzz2LzZqGLAO
Jeffrey Toobin
The Pistorius matter cries out for a plea bargain, and the legal story will probably end that way.
On the night of February 13-14, Pistorius fired his gun four times into the locked door of his bathroom, hitting Steenkamp three times and killing her. According to the defendant, Steenkamp’s death was a tragic accident.
South Africa has a vigorous culture of plea bargaining: plea bargains save time for the judicial system and offer both sides a greater measure of certainty than do trials. Even high-profile cases in South Africa are sometimes resolved by plea bargain. In 2005, Mark Thatcher, the son of the former British Prime Minister, accepted a fine of about five hundred thousand dollars and a four-year suspended sentence in connection with his role in a bizarre plot involving a coup d’etat in Equatorial Guinea.
The Pistorius case will probably end the same way. In South Africa, premeditated murder carries a life sentence, which in practice turns out usually to be twenty-five years. The alternative charge in the case is called “culpable homicide,” which is based on the idea of negligence rather than intentional killing. Culpable homicide does not carry a minimum sentence, and is thus clearly amenable as a focus for plea negotiations.
Pistorius could potentially turn a very long sentence into a short one, though he would give up the option of getting off completely.
But why would the government want to make a deal? Well, because Pistorius has a defensible case. Home invasions are epidemic in South Africa. A fact finder might credit Pistorius’s intense fear (and thus his overreaction) to the threat of an intruder in his bathroom.
The prosecution may also have a hard time proving motive. Pistorius and Steenkamp were a relatively new couple. There were no reports of public tension, much less murderous violence, between them. A plea bargain would obviate the need for the government to fill this hole in its case.
The bail ruling also increases Pistorius’s leverage for a good plea deal. Since he is not in prison, he will be in no hurry to go to trial; his lawyers can spend time chipping away at the government’s case, hiring experts, demanding more information, and generally working to render the events of that night a little more muddy.
Then there is the question of juries in South Africa: there are none. All verdicts and sentences are rendered by judges alone. This could cut both ways. At the time of the bail hearing, it was revealed that Hilton Botha, the lead detective in the case, was himself facing attempted murder charges. As a result, he was removed from the case. Jurors might well be so appalled by a police officer like Botha that they would be tempted to write off the case on that ground alone, as the jurors in the O. J. Simpson case did; a judge might take the information more in stride and look carefully to see if it had any actual relevance to the facts of the case. In this way, a judge trial helps the prosecution. But a judge could help the defense, too. The prosecution could attempt to make the case a referendum on domestic violence, and thus try to intimidate a jury into making a popular decision. An independent judge is more likely to focus on the facts and the relevant law and remain unswayed by such an appeal than a jury made up of legal novices would be.
In any event, the case could go either way—and this is precisely the kind of case that usually ends in a plea bargain. The risk of uncertainty is too high. Both Pistorius and his pursuers will welcome the certainty of a deal.
Will an admitted killer end up doing a a couple of hundred hours hours "community service" in his leisure time ..... :conf:
http://news.sky.com/story/1057309/pistorius-to-hold-private-memorial-for-reeva
Oscar Pistorius is to hold a private memorial service for his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp at his uncle's house in Pretoria tonight.
The South African athlete, who has been charged with murdering Ms Steenkamp, has admitted killing her but denies murder.
Pistorius has been staying at his uncle Arnold's home since he was released on bail by a magistrate last Friday following a court hearing lasting several days.
Confirmation of the memorial service came after a leak in the media, and the runner's family has asked for privacy.
A statement by Pistorius' representatives said: "This statement is released in response to a leak to the media regarding a planned private memorial service for Reeva Steenkamp.
"Oscar Pistorius, will hold a private memorial service for Reeva Steenkamp at the house of his uncle, Arnold Pistorius, tonight.
"Oscar specifically requested the memorial service as he continues to grieve and remains in deep mourning for the loss of his partner Reeva.
"Since it is such a sensitive issue, Oscar has asked for a private service with people who share his loss, including his family members who knew and loved Reeva as one of their own.
"The Pistorius family would like to make a personal request to the media, to please respect their privacy at their home in Pretoria tonight."
I am appalled at the effrontery of a killer holding a memorial service for his victim ..... :eek:
Brother Leon
26-02-2013, 04:29 PM
I am appalled the media need to expose any sort of private memorial to us. We dunno the facts of the issue and if what he says is true then he has every reason to be grief stricken. You really seem to be out for blood over something we really know nothing about, which is never a good look.
I am appalled the media need to expose any sort of private memorial to us. We dunno the facts of the issue and if what he says is true then he has every reason to be grief stricken. You really seem to be out for blood over something we really know nothing about, which is never a good look.
Pistorius has already admitted killing Reeva - the only doubt is whether he meant to or not.
Pistorius is obviously grief-stricken that his life will be for ever linked with the violent death of an innocent woman and that his "career" is effectively over now that his sponsors have pulled the plug.
It only remains to be seen whether he serves a prison sentence or not.
:idc:
Brother Leon
26-02-2013, 04:48 PM
Yes. But as you said we dunno if he meant to or not. Dunno who you are to say he's only grief stricken that his career is over too. I would wager that is the last thing on his mind at the moment.
Yes. But as you said we dunno if he meant to or not. Dunno who you are to say he's only grief stricken that his career is over too. I would wager that is the last thing on his mind at the moment.
I would wager that it is at the forefront ..... :pipe:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/26/oscar-pistorius-memorial-service-reeva-steenkamp
Plans for the service in Pretoria came to light after a "leak" to the media, according to the public-relations agency representing Pistorius.
Vuma Reputation Management said: "Oscar specifically requested the memorial service as he continues to grieve and remains in deep mourning for the loss of his partner Reeva. Since it is such a sensitive issue, Oscar has asked for a private service with people who share his loss, including his family members who knew and loved Reeva as one of their own."
The press release added: "The Pistorius family would like to make a personal request to the media to please respect their privacy at their home in Pretoria tonight."
There was no immediate comment from Steenkamp's family, who held her funeral last week and have called for Pistorius to face justice.
But Shashi Naidoo, a friend of Steenkamp, said: "If you wanted to keep a memorial service private, you would not put out a press release. I think this is a sad attempt to alter public perception."
The battle of perceptions is being waged by the Johannesburg-based Vuma, hired to deal with intense international media interest since the fatal shooting. It has revamped Pistorius's website, acted as a conduit for public statements by the Pistorius family and become the first point of contact for journalists after the former Sun editor Stuart Higgins returned to Britain last week.
"Reputation Management" - highly dubious, usually unethical, practices employed to turn around negative perceptions of a product/person ..... :suspect:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2285099/Oscar-Pistorius-Report-emerges-Reeva-Steenkamp-pregnant-killed.html#ixzz2M4GgzQdY
On Tuesday, it was revealed that Desmond Nair, chief magistrate of the Pretoria Magistrate's Court who presided over the bail hearing, is in mourning after it is believed one of his relatives killed herself and her children.
The bodies of a woman and her two sons were found on Sunday evening at their Johannesburg home by her ex-husband, police warrant officer Balan Muthan said.
Authorities suspect the woman administered a substance that killed her children, and took her own life by ingesting it as well.
'I can confirm the deceased is my first cousin,' Nair said.
The woman's brother, Vishal Maharaj, identified her as Anusha Maharaj. Police said Maharaj was her family name before she married. South African media identified her as Anusha Mooljee.
Muthan said police suspect 'she took her own life by ingesting a substance that killed her,' and that she 'most probably' gave the same substance to her children.
Autopsies were conducted on Monday and toxicologists were analyzing the substance believed to have killed the three family members.
Suicide notes were found and a murder investigation was underway, Muthan said. He said copies of the notes were admitted as evidence in the probe and declined to comment on the contents.
Another deadly twist in this case ..... :idc:
Cherie
27-02-2013, 07:51 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/26/oscar-pistorius-memorial-service-reeva-steenkamp
"Reputation Management" - highly dubious, usually unethical, practices employed to turn around negative perceptions of a product/person ..... :suspect:
Oscar continues to grieve...:conf: she has been dead for under two weeks, that's big of him.
I am not a judge or anything in that case, and can only go by what the media publish about it, but even so, he seems to me to come across as quite uncaring about the death of his girlfriend and the grieving of her family and friends, and having a very mememe attitude to the case and himself in general. Whether an accident or not as that's not really for us to decide re the courtcase, his attitude stinks, he just doesn't seem to see the need to face the responsibilty for what he's done, and to try and understand her family and friends grief. To me he comes across as a cold individual.
I wouldn't say that, he broke down repeatedly in court and evidently seemed pretty cut up about what happened
I wouldn't say that, he broke down repeatedly in court and evidently seemed pretty cut up about what happened
IMO, self-pity.
Well what about the fact that he was desperately trying to revive her as she died?
Well what about the fact that he was desperately trying to revive her as she died?
That's HIS story, but the same story goes on to say he carried Reeva downstairs "desperately trying to revive her as she died" while he was still walking on his stumps.
The full extent of Reeva's injuries has yet to be publically revealed but if Pistorious DID crush her head with the cricket bat that will change everything :
Olympic sprinter Oscar Pistorius crushed his girlfriend’s skull with a cricket bat before shooting her dead, police have told her family.
Details of the post-mortem examination of South African model Reeva Steenkamp were withheld from last week’s bail application hearing.
But grieving relatives who saw her body before Tuesday’s cremation in Port Elizabeth described horrific injuries from the cricket bat, and entry wounds from 9mm bullets fired by Pistorius.
They were also briefed about the model’s death by police and lawyers from the state prosecutor’s office.
In a sworn affidavit read to the bail hearing in Pretoria magistrates’ court last week, Pistorius claimed that he used the bat to break down the toilet door after the shooting, saying he had not realised his girlfriend was in the bathroom.
The bloodstained bat, which is currently being examined by a police forensics team, will be key evidence when Pistorius goes on trial for premeditated murder.
The ‘Blade Runner’ – who has previously boasted about having a cricket bat, pistol and machine gun at home to defend himself against intruders – claims the bat became blood-spattered at the scene.
Last week the prosecution did not mention any details about the bat and the role they believe it played in Reeva’s death, opting not to disclose their case against Pistorius.
But to secure bail, Pistorius’s legal team had to detail his defence, which included why he had a blood-spattered cricket bat in his possession on the fatal night.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283507/Oscar-Pistorius-DID-beat-model-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamp-cricket-bat-shot-her.html#ixzz2M916qAsa
Nope even the prosecution accepted that, the police found him trying to revive her and her still breathing. And nope, he says that he puts his legs on after he realised that she wasn't in the bed after he'd shot through the door
Not quite true :
Oscar Pistorius defence statement (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/19/oscar-pistorius-defence-statement)
Tuesday 19 February 2013 22.26 GMT
"During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom.
"I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps. I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.
"I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.
"I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet. The toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door.
"It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window. As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself. I believed that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.
"I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding. When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
"I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.
"I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door. I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.
EVENTUALLY, he put on his legs.
The estate agent and a neighbour arrived first and Reeva died before the police arrived.
Pistorius' story may have changed since then, of course, and I may have missed the changes but, IIRC, it was the prosecution's "case" that foundered on discrepancy, omission and malpractice.
That's what I said though, he did put on his legs, not carry her down the stairs on his stumps as you claimed
That's what I said though, he did put on his legs, not carry her down the stairs on his stumps as you claimed
Yes, I stand corrected on that point, but, while still on his stumps :
On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
Then
I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open.
I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom
Of course, that's HIS version of events
Then, the first arrivals were the estate agent and the neighbour, NOT the police.
But WHO advised Pistorius to take a badly injured, bleeding (and dying) woman to hospital in his car - it's not a "first aid" procedure that I'm aware of.
He would have then moved the "body" THREE times.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-police-found-herbal-1734049
The substance found along with needles in Oscar Pistorius’s bedroom after he shot dead his girlfriend has been identified as a herbal remedy sometimes used as a sex aid.
The athlete’s lawyers today identified the substance as Testis compositum, which they said is a herbal remedy used “in aid of muscle recovery”.
Testis compositum is also marketed as a sexual enhancer, used to boost stamina and for the “temporary relief of sexual weakness in males”.
Some online retailers advertise oral and injectable forms as testosterone boosters.
A Pistorius family spokeswoman said that the gold medallist’s lawyers confirmed that the substance is Testis compositum.
:idc:
lostalex
28-02-2013, 01:11 AM
Well what about the fact that he was desperately trying to revive her as she died?
Yea cause he realized what he did and that he was gonna be held accountable for it. That doesn't mean he didn't shoot her in a fit of rage. Just because he sobered up when he realized what he'd done doesn't mean that it's not still murder.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/oscar-pistorius-complies-bail-condition-article-1.1273540#ixzz2MHja6PSq
The bail conditions do not specifically state that Pistorius has to report to Pretoria’s Brooklyn Police Station.
The bail conditions are as follows:
1) The National Prosecuting Authority will facilitate the appointment of a probation officer and a correctional official.
2) The probation officer will provide weekly reports to the Prosecuting Authority and the accused’s defense team regarding the accused’s mental health and emotional state.
3) The accused shall, at his own cost, comply with all requests of the probation officer to consult with professional health care providers.
4) (This sub-paragraph was removed by Chief Magistrate Nair).
5) The accused shall inform the correctional official of all his movements within the District of Pretoria prior to undertaking such journey.
6) The accused shall obtain permission from the correctional official prior to undertaking any journey outside the District of Pretoria.
7) The correctional official may request the accused to visit him or her at a designated place to clarify and/or co-ordinate any contemplated travel arrangements referred to in sub-paragraphs 5 and 6 above.
8) The correctional official may visit the accused at any reasonable time, day or night, to ascertain the accused’s well-being and compliance with these conditions.
9) The accused shall provide the probation officer and correctional official with a cellular phone number and shall be available to be contacted at this number at any time during day or night.
According to Oscar’s uncle Arnold Pistorius, Oscar is free to move around within the Pretoria area, during the following days and times: Monday to Friday (8 am to 7 pm); Saturdays (8 am to 2 pm); Sundays (6 am to 1pm).
So, another secret visit to the probation officer today ..... :conf:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/oscar-pistorius-in-talks-with-assault-accuser-337103
Johannesburg: Star athlete Oscar Pistorius, charged with murdering his girlfriend, is holding "confidential" talks to resolve a lawsuit against a woman who had accused him of assault, his lawyer said on Friday.
"There are confidential settlement negotiations under way," attorney Gary Pritchard confirmed.
The Paralympic and Olympic sprinter is suing his former neighbour Cassidy Taylor-Memmory who in 2009 said he slammed a door at her during a party at his house.
"It was a couple of years back. He claimed damages to his reputation from her," Pritchard told AFP of the 2.2-million-rand ($244,000, 187,000-euro) lawsuit.
The case is due to come before a regional court in Pretoria, the weekly Mail & Guardian reported Friday, but the athlete is working to resolve it quietly.
"We are trying to settle outside of court," said Pritchard.
The previous assault charge was brought up in Pistorius's bail hearing on the murder charges, and the same police officer investigated both cases.
Warrant officer Hilton Botha in 2009 rejected Taylor-Memmory's assault claims after investigation.
A small world and no mistake ..... :suspect:
Pistorius' Reputation Management team will, no doubt, resolve the small matter of assault ..... ;)
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/03/oscar-pistorius-facing-yet-another-court-case/
While Oscar Pistorius is fighting a murder charge for the shooting death of his girlfriend, the famous athlete could also end up in court soon on another legal matter, according to attorneys involved in the separate case.
Pistorius’s lawyers are trying to reach an out-of-court settlement with a woman Pistorius is suing for allegedly damaging his reputation when she called police on him.
The case stems from an incident in September 2009, when, Pistorius has said, he escorted a former neighbor out of his house during a party because she was drunk and insulting other guests.
The neighbor, Cassidy Taylor-Memmory, 21, has filed a counter-suit asking for a public apology. She said Pistorius injured her foot when he slammed the front door on her. Pistorius claimed she kicked at the front door and must have injured her foot that way.
Police said they were called to the house, but the assault case was immediately dropped. It came to public attention again during Pistorius’ 4-day bail hearing last week when the lead police detective in the murder case against Pistorius, Hilton Botha, testified he was the officer who responded to the 2009 incident. After Botha’s poor performance on the stand and admission of investigative errors, he was immediately dropped from the murder case.
Pistorius’ attorney, Gary Pritchard, told ABC News Friday his client lost two speaking engagements and an endorsement deal because of the publicity surrounding her 2009 assault claim. He said he had asked for a settlement weeks before Pistorius was arrested on Valentine’s Day for the shooting death of model Reeva Steenkamp.
The lawsuit against Taylor-Memmory was scheduled to go to court Feb. 20 but was delayed because of the bail hearing, according to Taylor-Memmory’s attorney, Ladine Botha. Botha told ABC News she has given Pistorius’ legal team until March 5 to agree on a settlement or the case will proceed to court.
Another Botha ..... :idc:
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/03/01/oscar-pistorius-recently-became-an-avid-collector-of-american-guns/
JOHANNESBURG, South Africa — In his Olympic year, Oscar Pistorius steadily became an avid firearms collector, joining a gun-collecting club and purchasing a collection of firearms that included a .500 Magnum pistol dubbed by its manufacturer as “the most powerful production revolver in the world” and a civilian version of a military assault rifle.
At the end of 2012, in the first blush of his romance with Reeva Steenkamp, the model he later shot and killed, Pistorius got deeper into his hobby. It was known that Pistorius liked guns but only now, from Associated Press interviews with other collectors, is it becoming clear the extent to which he became a dedicated firearms aficionado in the 12 months before he shot Steenkamp.
The track star not only applied for licenses to own more guns, but actually bought them, too, according to John Beare, vice chairman of the Lowveld Firearm Collectors Association which accepted Pistorius as a paid-up member last April. He and Pistorius were introduced at a Johannesburg hotel in January 2012, and it was there that Beare first explained to the athlete and some of his friends how to become certified collectors.
Had he not become a collector, Pistorius would under South African law have been limited to a maximum of four firearms for self-defence, of which only two could have been handguns, according to Johannesburg attorney Martin Hood, who specializes in firearms law.
Carvel Webb, chairman of the National Arms and Ammunition Collectors Confederation of South Africa, an umbrella group for the country’s 2,000 approved private collectors including Pistorius, said that in the wake of Steenkamp’s killing his group will now verify that Pistorius fulfilled the necessary requirements to be accepted as a collector and a decision in January to let him start collecting semi-automatic rifles.
“We will review all of those just to see if we are happy with it,” Webb said.
Pistorius made no secret of his passion for firearms. Reporters who visited him at home in Pretoria, the capital, saw the pistol he kept by his bed and was licensed to own. He practiced at firing ranges both in South Africa and in Europe where he trained for the London Games. But apparently less well-known was his involvement with gun collectors to start building a firearms collection.
Beare said he twice observed Pistorius shoot at firing ranges and also at a clay pigeon shoot, but saw nothing to suggest he could be a menace with a gun.
“His safety was good,” Beare told the AP. “He wouldn’t do anything irrational with a firearm, because then I would have nailed him immediately.”
Pistorius’ license for the 9 mm pistol was issued on Sept. 10, 2010, according to the South African Police Service’s National Firearms Center. It was registered for self-defence.
He was still budding [as a collector] at that stage. He had done his research on it and he was interested in American firearms.
“I had no reason to believe that there was anything wrong, that he could have a dark side, that there could be something wrong,” said Beare.
However, Roberto Siriu, president of the Tolmezzo shooting range in northeast Italy, said Pistorius did not seem to him to be well-trained with firearms.
“No, I don’t think so. He didn’t give me that impression,” Siriu told the AP.
Pistorius shot at Tolmezzo during breaks from athletic training in the nearby town of Gemona. In November 2011, Pistorius posted a photo of himself firing a rifle at Tolmezzo, with the words: “Had a 96% headshot over 300m from 50shots! Bam!”
Last June, seven weeks before he made history by running at the London Games, Pistorius tweeted that he was going back to Tolmezzo to shoot vintage rifles, adding: “Amped to the max! Yeaaah boi!!”
Gun collecting is regulated by South Africa’s stringent Firearms Control Act. Pistorius had to explain to his collecting association, both in writing and in interviews, what types of firearms he wanted to collect and why.
Beare said he and two other association members interviewed Pistorius in June or July 2012, shortly before he became the first double-amputee Olympic runner.
“He was still budding [as a collector] at that stage. He had done his research on it and he was interested in American firearms,” Beare said.
The association certified Pistorius as a beginner collector, Beare said. Pistorius bought two Smith & Wesson revolvers and three shotguns and sent photos of the firearms and their serial numbers to the association, as required, Beare said.
But Pistorius couldn’t take actual physical possession of his firearms because he didn’t have police-issued licenses for them. So the weapons were kept for safekeeping by a gun dealer, Beare said. At firing ranges, Pistorius used other people’s guns, he added.
Pistorius eventually applied for the licenses in January, according to the National Firearms Center. It listed his weapons as:
-A Smith & Wesson model 500. With a caliber of .500 Magnum, it is called “the most powerful production revolver in the world” by its manufacturer in Springfield, Massachusetts. “A hunting handgun for any game animal walking,” the company’s website says. Pistorius was “quite fascinated” with that particular weapon, Beare said.
-A Smith & Wesson .38-caliber revolver.
-Three shotguns: A Mossberg, a Maverick and a Winchester, all American makes.
-A Vektor .223-caliber rifle.
The current status of those applications is unclear. Firearms Center officials said after Pistorius killed Steenkamp that the six license applications were sent back to a Johannesburg police station to be refilled, but the reason for that wasn’t given.
For civilian collectors, the Vektor is the closest they can get to the R-series assault rifles used by South Africa’s military. For civilian use, the rifle is modified to make it only semi-automatic. Because it is classed as a restricted weapon in South Africa, Pistorius had to upgrade his status from a beginner to a more serious collector.
As part of that upgrading process, Pistorius was interviewed again by his collectors’ club this January, Beare said. It accepted the runner’s explanation that he wanted to collect weapons linked to South African military history, Beare said. He said that entitled Pistorius to start collecting not just South African firearms but also Russian-made guns that guerrilla groups have used over the years to fight South African forces.
Pistorius bought the Vektor around December, and sent the serial number and a photo to the association, Beare added.
Collecting firearms can be expensive. Vektors sell for US$1,100 to US$1,500 on South African gun-resale websites. Pistorius’ athletic success and sponsorships have made him wealthy. Beare said he understood that Pistorius was planning to build on his collection over time.
“You start small and then you start growing,” he said.
Some have questioned why Pistorius felt he needed such a variety of weapons and whether the association should have certified him.
Andre Pretorius, president of the Professional Firearm Trainers Council, a regulatory body for South African firearms instructors, said he struggles to see how pistols, shotguns and a semi-automatic rifle could be regarded as a coherent collection.
“The makes differ, the models differ and generally a collection needs to have a theme,” said Pretorius. “I don’t see there’s a theme here.”
Pistorius' fascination with and ownership of such powerful weapons is probably "normal" for the wealthy in SA ..... :eek:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/oscar-pistorius-complies-bail-condition-article-1.1273540#ixzz2MHja6PSq
So, another secret visit to the probation officer today ..... :conf:
None reported - have the conditions been "relaxed" ..... :puzzled:
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Oscars-legal-costs-already-more-than-R1m-report-20130302
Johannesburg - Murder-accused Paralympian Oscar Pistorius's legal costs during his week of detention probably amounted to up to R1.2m (£90k), a legal expert said in a report on Saturday.
Beeld quoted law professor Tom Coetzee as saying the week during which his bail application was heard, his legal costs were probably anything between R1m and R1.2m.
And, he added, that was a "very conservative" estimate.
"And this is only the beginning. Until his next court appearance, consultations will continuously take place.
"Then his trial starts, which will make the current bill look small," said Coetzee.
Beeld also reported on the Pistorius family's financial interests, saying the grandfather, Hendrik Pistorius, 95, started a mining business in 1944, which expanded into other businesses.
He and his sons currently own almost 120 companies actively doing business today, both locally and overseas.
Oscar and his brother, Carl, are co-directors in four of these companies, reported Beeld.
:idc:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/03/oscar-pistorius-facing-yet-another-court-case/
Another Botha ..... :idc:
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/oscar-pistorius-settling-dispute-with-neighbour/story-fndir2ev-1226589505355#ixzz2MTa2flKC
OSCAR Pistorius is settling a three-year-old case against a former neighbour over reputation damages in a dispute that has now been overshadowed by the murder charges the Olympic star faces in the Valentine's Day shooting of his girlfriend.
Pistorius' reputation management firm confirmed the plans after the Sunday Tribune first reported the story. Lunice Johnston of Vuma said that the merits in the separate case "are no longer relevant".
..... and the cost ?
:suspect:
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