What Sexuality Do You Identify As?

[Kizzy]

Saw your post Jess, not surprised it's been deleted. But thank you for understanding anyway, it's boosted my confidence a little that some people can remain respectful. I was beginning to feel disheartened that it's just me and Reece who are seeing this the same way. Appreciate it a lot :love:

It's funny because in the early stages of this thread I praised this forum for being diverse and largely open-minded, funny how things change eh. It's a shame.

I'm guessing if it was respectful it would not have been deleted?

[Jessica.]

Being open minded is trying to understand things, which is what we are trying to do, I'm not going to blindly agree with something that makes no sense. You've just said yourself Jack that you can't even explain to me what the difference is but you're still saying that there definitely is a difference.........

Oh and btw, you're calling Jessica respectful for calling half the people posting in here idiots but Caitlin is disrespectful for saying Pansexuals are trying to be different.....ok then

That is because half of the people posting in here are ignorant, but pansexual people are not trying to be anything except themselves.

[ChristmasNeeve]

That is because half of the people posting in here are ignorant, but pansexual people are not trying to be anything except themselves.

Ok then, you tell me what is the difference between Pansexual and Bisexual. All I want is to understand the difference and I'm getting called ignorant and an idiot because of it, eventhough not one person has of yet been able to explain it to me.

[Jack_]

Yeah and I got an infraction too, it's ridiculous how ignorant people have been, some people really surprised me, nobody should be questioned and quizzed so trivially and disrespectfully about such a personal matter.

It's almost laughable how contradictory the infraction is, the reason was "insulting", if it's against the rules to insult people, a lot more posts should have been deleted than mine.

Ridiculous but not at all surprising. Yeah some of the posts in here have shocked me, some from people who I'd imagine will have experienced struggles defining their sexuality themselves so to go and undermine someone in a similar position seems really bizarre to me.

And we both know that, it's only acceptable because it's not a commonly known identity. Had that comment been directed towards asexuals, bisexuals etc, I have absolutely no doubt that it would not have been tolerated. And to have one rule for some and another rule for others is effectively outcasting a small number of people who this is actually affecting.

[Jessica.]

Ok then, you tell me what is the difference between Pansexual and Bisexual. All I want is to understand the difference and I'm getting called ignorant and an idiot because of it, eventhough not one person has of yet been able to explain it to me.

It has already been explained a few times.
Bisexual - Attracted physically and emotionally to men and women.
Pansexual - Attracted physically and emotionally to anyone, no matter what their gender is, here's a list of the possibilities, there's probably more that aren't on the list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ephilei/List_of_genders

[ChristmasNeeve]

Ridiculous but not at all surprising. Yeah some of the posts in here have shocked me, some from people who I'd imagine will have experienced struggles defining their sexuality themselves so to go and undermine someone in a similar position seems really bizarre to me.

And we both know that, it's only acceptable because it's not a commonly known identity. Had that comment been directed towards asexuals, bisexuals etc, I have absolutely no doubt that it would not have been tolerated. And to have one rule for some and another rule for others is effectively outcasting a small number of people who this is actually affecting.

Don't be ridiculous Jack, you can't even tell me what a Pansexual is.

[ChristmasNeeve]

It has already been explained a few times.
Bisexual - Attracted physically and emotionally to men and women.
Pansexual - Attracted physically and emotionally to anyone, no matter what their gender is, here's a list of the possibilities, there's probably more that aren't on the list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ephilei/List_of_genders

There are only two genders Jessica.

[Jesus.]

I think the actual definition of Pansexual has something to do with disco music.

WcXHxLg6MAU

For that reason, I'd like to make them an offer for 51%.

[ChristmasNeeve]

That list lmao, a nun is a different gender now???? what?

[Jessica.]

There are only two genders Jessica.

:joker: Are you serious?

[Kizzy]

Well if you need wiki to define any aspect of yourself you are in trouble if you ask me...

[ChristmasNeeve]

:joker: Are you serious?

Sorry I forgot nuns were a different gender........

[Jessica.]

Well if you need wiki to define any aspect of yourself you are in trouble if you ask me...

I'm not Pansexual, what on earth are you talking about?

[Kizzy]

:joker: Are you serious?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdhur8ywGU1rkmcsko1_500.gif

[Jesus.]

This forum is probably one of the most open minded and diverse places you'll find, that's kind of evident by the fact that only just over half the members here identify as heterosexual. That doesn't mean that everyone is an expert on complicated matters of sexual identification though, and it's a two way street, if you show no respect to people in a discussion then don't demand for people to show it back. It's entirely reasonable for people to question the term pansexual, because I also don't personally think it necessary to make the distinction between it and bisexual. Sure if you want to identify as that then that's your prerogative but don't be surprised if people express confusion at it, as the vast majority of the population would. The self righteousness is really quite pathetic.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/that-post-was-so-gay-it-gave-me-aids-240x180.jpg

[Jack_]

Don't be ridiculous Jack, you can't even tell me what a Pansexual is.

I've already said I will later, I've had a really bad day and this is not making me feel any better. I wish some people would understand how this could actually hurt people's feelings.

[Kizzy]

I'm not Pansexual, what on earth are you talking about?

I didn't say you were, but is wiki really the most definitive source of information on this issue?

[Jessica.]

I didn't say you were, but is wiki really the most definitive source of information on this issue?
Go find a reliable source if you are so bothered instead of making up excuses because you said something which wasn't correct.
you need wiki to define any aspect of yourself

[Apple202]

wow, just wow at this thread..

[Marcus.]

wow, just wow at this thread..

yeah apple is gone mad

[Apple202]

The problem is Jack that no one seems to be able to give a proper explanation as to how Pansexuals are any different to Bisexuals. If there was a clear difference there would be no confusion, how can you expect people to respect this "different" sexual orientation when as far as I can see there is no difference at all

That's because you're choosing to ignore it, there is clear difference between bisexuals, who are attracted to males and females, and pansexuals, who are attracted to males, females, transgenders or whoever, regardless of gender...

[ChristmasNeeve]

That's because you're choosing to ignore it, there is clear difference between bisexuals, who are attracted to males and females, and pansexuals, who are attracted to males, females, transgenders or whoever, regardless of gender...

I'm not ignoring it at all, in fact let me quote myself :

Bisexuals are attracted to male or females. Hence the 'bi' part meaning two

Pansexuals are attracted to male, female, transgender.

Then you're suggesting that Transgenders are a different sexuality to male or female, isn't that discriminatory in itself?

a good point, I don't know, it's the definition that I've always heard.

Yeah I mean I sort of understand what you're saying but I'm sure there are plenty of "straight" or "bi" people who are in relationships with transgender people, do they then have to say they're actually Pansexual because they fell for a transgendered person and if that's the case isn't that insulting to their transgender partner?

[Apple202]

Seen as though it's recognised almost globally as a third gender, and some even swap in and out of being male or female, I really don't think it'd bother them too much so stop making it out to be transphobic when I'm simply giving the answer to your question.

Anyway, what about pansexuals finding it offensive that people are refusing to see the difference between themselves and bisexuals? :conf:

[Black Dagger]

Y'all like dick or vagina or both, let's move on now.

I prefer a world with no labels tbh.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Seen as though it's recognised almost globally as a third gender, and some even swap in and out of being male or female, I really don't think it'd bother them too much, stop making it out to be transphobic when I'm simply giving the answer to you're question.

Anyway, what about pansexuals finding it offensive that people are refusing to see the difference between themselves and bisexuals? :conf:


So I'm not allowed think that it's a little transphobic, but it's fine for some people in here to basically call others intolerant if they're questioning the term Pansexual?

[Apple202]

No, because it's not transphobic seen as though a third gender is widely recognised throughout the world for people who weren't biologically born male or female but have changed their gender during their life. And basically your main argument has been insinuating that Pansexuals are transphobic which in itself is intolerant seen as it's not true.

[Jack_]

Okay, so this is the way I have always viewed pansexuality. Again, I don't see myself as pansexual despite having toyed with the idea a few years ago, I've already explained all of that earlier in the thread.

Some people see gender as a social construct. Your sex is the biological difference between human beings (what bits you have), but gender is a construct that has been created and adopted by humans over generations. Masculinity and femininity are constructs, people just fall under these categories because that's what they're socialised into from the minute they're born. I'm talking anything from Barbie for girls, Action Man for boys to sport for men, hairdressing for women. In the 21st century these boundaries are constantly being blurred, things like metrosexuality are a perfect example of this.

So, as such, pansexuals don't see two genders. They see people (with different bits if you like). One race essentially. And they acknowledge that they could fall in love with any person, it's about the personality rather than their 'gender' or appearance. I believe bisexuals differ from this in that they don't see gender as a social construct, see two races of people, and are consciously aware of the fact they are attracted to both 'genders'. That's not to say bisexuals don't care about personality, just that pansexuals care most specifically about that and see 'gender' as irrelevant.

This answer from a Yahoo Answers question sums it up fairly well:

They're similar in that you would find someone identifying as bisexual being attracted to both genders, and you would find someone identifying as pansexual being attracted to both genders. The difference, though, is that bisexual people would say they are attracted to men and women, and see men and women as two separate genders, equally attractive in their mind (although I say "equally" loosely, because this is on a spectrum, and even someone that is bisexual might either be equally attracted to men & women, or slightly more attracted to one gender).

People who identify as pansexual, though, would not "see" gender the way many do. It's almost incidental, in much the same way the color of someone's hair can be. Someone who is pansexual will fall in love with a person, not a gender. So they find love and it might happen to be with a man, or it might be with a woman. The only thing that matters is the heart & soul of who they love, not the body/gender containing it. I identify as pansexual. I'm a woman in love with a woman, so society would like to call me gay, or a lesbian, but I just see myself as being someone in love with another person. Other people can choose whatever labels they want to use.

[Jack_]

Thank you Apple :love:

[Munchkins]

It's not commonly known as the third gender! that's what its classified in countries such as thailand, where they wont give trans the same rights as male or females so have created this "third gender"
Trans people are male or female, whether they were biologically born that, they have become male or female
they do not transition to become a third gender, and most do not jump in and out of genders, once they have transitioned to their new, true gender, they stay that way

[ChristmasNeeve]

It's not commonly known as the third gender! that's what its classified in countries such as thailand, where they wont give trans the same rights as male or females so have created this "third gender"
Trans people are male or female, whether they were biologically born that, they have become male or female
they do not transition to become a third gender, and most do not jump in and out of genders, once they have transitioned to their new, true gender, they stay that way

Thank you!

[Kizzy]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Dwq4YSPgzsMC&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq=pansexualism+freud&source=bl&ots=FFRV7uP6kx&sig=s1fPllW3pcnpQNmuSQiKJoR1XO0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xNksUY2CC4i30QWM94AI&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=pansexualism%20freud&f=false

There you go, according to freud it does not exist?

[Apple202]

It's not commonly known as the third gender! that's what its classified in countries such as thailand, where they wont give trans the same rights as male or females so have created this "third gender"
Trans people are male or female, whether they were biologically born that, they have become male or female
they do not transition to become a third gender, and most do not jump in and out of genders, once they have transitioned to their new, true gender, they stay that way

What? Where have you got that Thailand 'fact' from :conf: It's been called a third gender for years, it's now a new term that has been conjured up recently to allow laws in second or third world countries to be transphobic.

And whether you want to see it or not, there is a difference between people who were naturally and biologically born male and female, and to those who were born in one but switched to the other, and the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality reflects that.

[Munchkins]

Everyones preaching about being open and not offensive, yet are offending different lifestyles whilst trying to support their own. The term third gender is very offensive to practically all transgender people, as i said the only places it are used are places where trans people wont and arent being given the same rights, and so this third gender has been created. The only way i can see this term being fit, is for intersexed people..
All i'm saying is i know my friend would be very offending about it, though she cant speak for the whole transgender population obviously

[Good King Glennceslas]

There's some loooooong posts in this thread.

-will have to read back before I join the debate-

[Munchkins]

What? Where have you got that Thailand 'fact' from :conf: It's been called a third gender for years, it's now a new term that has been conjured up recently to allow laws in second or third world countries to be transphobic.

And whether you want to see it or not, there is a difference between people who were naturally and biologically born male and female, and to those who were born in one but switched to the other, and the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality reflects that.

So basically all people are pansexual then? Heterosexuals males who would date Transgender women are now Heterosexual Pansexuals?

[Apple202]

So basically all people are pansexual then? Heterosexuals males who would date Transgender women are now Heterosexual Pansexuals?

Your attempt to be patronising is failing seen as though that makes no sense, Heterosexuals go for the opposite gender, not commonly transgenders which are bound to have both masculine and feminine features due to the switching of gender.

[Munchkins]

Your attempt to be patronising is failing seen as though that makes no sense, Heterosexuals go for the opposite gender, not commonly transgenders which are bound to have both masculine and feminine features due to the switching of gender.

Me attempting to be patronising?:conf:
But not all transgenders are bound to have both masculine and feminine features if they transition early..
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqh6h45fck1qdy1fso6_250.png

[Munchkins]

Are all Bisexuals who would date transgender people now pansexual? i really do not see the difference as there is no true third gender, unless you class intersexed people as that i suppose

[Cherry Christmas]

oh dear, this thread.

[Munchkins]

And the fact from Thailand was from a BBC documentary i watched, perfectly showed how Thailand and countries such as Idonesia praise that they have trans rights, and allow them to transition, yet still outcast them from society, and make themselves declare they're are a 3rd gender, and dont get the same rights as male and females..

[smeagol]

im a male lesbian lol

[Ninastar]

So glad I'm not alone on this.

[Kizzy]

No don't worry you're not. It's just another thing to be mortally offended by, if you don't understand the smorgasbord of 'sexuals' there are it's ok nina.

[Jack_]

I wonder what's worse. Being offended by a Ricky Gervais sitcom or insults directed towards someone's sexual orientation. Tricky one...

[reece(:]

It's just another thing to be mortally offended by, if you don't understand the smorgasbord of 'sexuals' there are it's ok nina.

It's more than just a thing..... to quote the ever great Rachel Rice, "we're talking about peoples feelings"... try entering the shoes of the people of the opposite side of your debate.

[Jack_]

But see it's ever so easy for people who have absolutely no experience of struggling with and questioning their sexuality (**** me I'd give anything to not have had to go through it) to criticise others for theirs but I'm amazed at how anybody who has experienced such struggles themselves could fail to see how their comments may hurt somebody else's feelings.

[Kizzy]

But see it's ever so easy for people who have absolutely no experience of struggling with and questioning their sexuality (**** me I'd give anything to not have had to go through it) to criticise others for theirs but I'm amazed at how anybody who has experienced such struggles themselves could fail to see how their comments may hurt somebody else's feelings.

How do you know what experiences others may have had on this forum jack, fgs stop being so melodramatic.

[Urban Cragou]

The problem is Jack that no one seems to be able to give a proper explanation as to how Pansexuals are any different to Bisexuals. If there was a clear difference there would be no confusion, how can you expect people to respect this "different" sexual orientation when as far as I can see there is no difference at all

Jack you are choosing to take offence, and then being rude on the back of that.

If a Bisexual is someone who doesn't care what gender someone is, then how is Pansexual any different?

There is though. I respect what you're saying but as I mentioned earlier on this thread, people are bisexual if they are attracted to the two main, cissexual sexes; pansexual people are attracted to that and everyone else in between. If you consider yourself to be bisexual, but would still have sex with transgender, intrasex people, etc, then maybe people need to excogitate what sexuality they refer to themselves as.

Not that there's anything wrong with being pansexual. Refusal to admit that usually stems from stigma attached to a particular sexual group, as lostalex said.

[Ninastar]

I'm not relabelling myself pansexual just because I would have sex with someone who is transgender.

[Jack_]

Nobody has to label themselves as anything, people should be able to identify themselves as they wish. Slagging off such labels is what is the problem here.

[GypsyGoth]

But by your definition Caitlin is a pansexual and you admitted you aren't. So isn't she allowed to have an opinion on pansexuality, even if it's one you don't like?

[Jack_]

But by your definition Caitlin is a pansexual and you admitted you aren't. So isn't she allowed to have an opinion on pansexuality, even if it's one you don't like?

So she believes that gender is a social construct, that the boundaries between 'men' and 'women' are so blurred that she essentially sees one race of people and makes no distinction between them other than certain obvious biological differences and so as such the 'gender' of a person rarely comes into her head when she's attracted to somebody, and it's the person (personality), not how aesthetically pleasing they are is what is the real thing that attracts her to people?

You can think what you like about different sexualities, but to openly say in front of people who may be struggling to find themselves that a label they associate themselves with is just a way of being 'different' (not that, you know...that's how they may feel, how could anybody else possibly understand and so who is anyone else to pass judgement?) to make themselves stand out isn't acceptable. It's not a fun little easy lifestyle choice, some people actually feel this within them and so to make out it's just as easy as 'oooh let's pick this label cuz it's so cool!' just takes away from the complexity of the situation.

[GypsyGoth]

So she believes that gender is a social construct, that the boundaries between 'men' and 'women' are so blurred that she essentially sees one race of people and makes no distinction between them other than certain obvious biological differences and so as such the 'gender' of a person rarely comes into her head when she's attracted to somebody, and it's the person (personality), not how aesthetically pleasing they are is what is the real thing that attracts her to people?

Yep sure.

So this whole thread you have been rude to a pansexual, and you aren't even one. You have set the pansexual movement back years.

[Kizzy]

So she believes that gender is a social construct, that the boundaries between 'men' and 'women' are so blurred that she essentially sees one race of people and makes no distinction between them other than certain obvious biological differences and so as such the 'gender' of a person rarely comes into her head when she's attracted to somebody, and it's the person (personality), not how aesthetically pleasing they are is what is the real thing that attracts her to people?

You can think what you like about different sexualities, but to openly say in front of people who may be struggling to find themselves that a label they associate themselves with is just a way of being 'different' (not that, you know...that's how they may feel, how could anybody else possibly understand and so who is anyone else to pass judgement?) to make themselves stand out isn't acceptable. It's not a fun little easy lifestyle choice, some people actually feel this within them and so to make out it's just as easy as 'oooh let's pick this label cuz it's so cool!' just takes away from the complexity of the situation.

Who are you to decipher what or how she feels? She, like you may not have configured her own sexuality..
You are running away with this complexity issue, and are coming across as hypersensitive.

[Jack_]

Yep sure.

So this whole thread you have been rude to a pansexual, and you aren't even one. You have set the pansexual movement back years.

Well I'll let her answer that.

And no, because the way I see it is, if you wish to give yourself a label, that's fine. If you don't want to give yourself a label, that's fine. People can identify themselves however they wish and it's rude to directly criticise those labels. I'd actually quite like to make the point that before this happened last night many people were asking questions like 'well surely it's just the same thing as bisexual?' and 'what's the difference between them?' and you'll notice I didn't have an issue - because they're enquiring and not being insulting about it.

Besides, if you believe that is the case - she was accusing herself of trying to be 'different' for the hell of it by using the pansexual label. That doesn't make sense, so it can't be the case. Even if it is, it's still offensive to people who are. I don't have to identify myself as that to find it offensive you know, as I made clear, if the comments had been directed at any other sexual orientation this whole thread would have panned out exactly the same.

Who are you to decipher what or how she feels? She, like you may not have configured her own sexuality..
You are running away with this complexity issue, and are coming across as hypersensitive.

Well from what I have gathered she has claimed in this thread and in other threads like it to be bisexual, that's what she voted on the poll - there is an option for 'Unidentified' so forgive me for misinterpreting if that is the case, it's not exactly my fault is it? A couple of people asked me for how I saw pansexuality, so I explained - it's nothing to do with 'deciphering' how anybody feels. That's how I see it, another member then insinuated that Ninastar was pansexual so what am I supposed to do when she's clearly voted and stated otherwise? You're making out like she is yet she's stated she isn't and has voted bisexual. If that isn't the case then I apologise (I'm able to), but like I said, all I have to go off is how she has explained her sexuality, so I'm hardly going to decide anything else for her am I? I don't even understand what this has to do with the issue...

And Christ almighty, where am I supposed to start with that? It's quite easy for somebody who hasn't had struggles with understanding their sexuality to make out that it's not as complex and as difficult as some people make out, it's alright when you're sitting pretty without a care in the world in regards to that aspect of your life. But funnily enough it isn't for those who do have to experience it, and for you to make out people are hypersensitive about it when there are people (youths in particular) who feel isolated from society and end up self-harming and taking their lives over this kinda thing is just unreal. The heterosexuals that struggle with their sexuality are few and far between and as such, you have absolutely no understanding of how anybody else is feeling.

[Vicky.]

This whole time, I Always thought Pansexual meant you like both genders but not in a sexual way. Shows how much I know.

I always thought pansexual meant falls in love with objects and such.

Like the woman who married the eiffel tower.

Shows how much I know :S

[Marc]

I once shagged the berlin wall

[Jack_]

I always thought pansexual meant falls in love with objects and such.

Like the woman who married the eiffel tower.

Shows how much I know :S

:joker:

That cheered me up somewhat. Nice to see you Vicky!

[Jake.]

I once shagged the berlin wall

Shame it didn't shag you back xx

[Marc]

Shame it didn't shag you back xx

Well we were having a great time but then it just fell over :-S

[Ninastar]

You want my honest opinion?

It hasn't changed.

I don't understand pansexuality and I don't think there is a valid enough description for it to truly make sense. I stand by what I said when I meant it's just another word for bisexuality.

If this means offence to you (which I don't really intend) then I am sorry, but honestly, I really really think the reaction for this is way way OTT. As do most of the members of the forum. Clearly I am not in the wrong. This is my opinion. If you choose to take offence then that's down to you. Again, it is not only I who thinks this, it's a majority of the forum.

[reece(:]

The majority of the forum agrees so that's alright then eh, the majority of the forum know where they are and everything is set in stone for their feelings - so it's easy for them to agree and to not take offence but whatever, I'm done flogging a dead horse and it's not like I'm intensely bothered with what people think of it.

[Vicky.]

:joker:

That cheered me up somewhat. Nice to see you Vicky!

Hi :p

[Jack_]

You want my honest opinion?

It hasn't changed.

I don't understand pansexuality and I don't think there is a valid enough description for it to truly make sense. I stand by what I said when I meant it's just another word for bisexuality.

If this means offence to you (which I don't really intend) then I am sorry, but honestly, I really really think the reaction for this is way way OTT. As do most of the members of the forum. Clearly I am not in the wrong. This is my opinion. If you choose to take offence then that's down to you. Again, it is not only I who thinks this, it's a majority of the forum.

Well first of all it's nice of you to actually bother to respond to any of the points, at least you've tried somewhat to justify what you said.

But I pointed out the difference in my explanation of it and yet nobody quoted me and tried to argue otherwise? You know I'm quite open to debating this, I can change my opinion if I'm convinced otherwise. Pansexuality is an orientation that's not very well understood and even those who talk about it do have grey areas, you'd need to meet a lifelong pansexual to fully receive a proper explanation. All I'm saying is that even if there's some confusion, some doubt about it, there are still people who see potentially see themselves as pansexual and identify themselves with that label and struggle with all of their feelings - and it's a little insensitive to just claim that it's a way of making yourself look 'different'. Just try and put yourself in that person's shoes and imagine how that'd make them feel, to have their struggles reduced to some way of making themselves stand out (when I'm actually pretty sure that's the last thing they want). A lot of bisexuals are hurt when people claim they're just closeted gay people, that it's not possible, they're doing it because being gay/straight is mainstream, and this is no different. You can have whatever view you want on it, but to post it in full view of a member or two who could potentially be struggling with it is just really insensitive to how they may feel. I'd hardly criticise a Chinese person's country and culture in front of their face, and this is basically the same thing just with a different issue.

The only reason the reaction to this has been in agreement with you is because there's such little understanding of the term. As I've said numerous times, if it had been directed at an asexual, bisexual, homosexual, anyone else - the reaction would've been very different. A lack of understanding is essentially meaning this isn't important. That doesn't make you or the rest of the forum right, in both senses of the word. In fact it's the total opposite.

[Jack_]

Hi :p

How's things with the baby? Not sure if I ever said congrats btw, so congrats :amazed:

[Urban Cragou]

I'm not relabelling myself pansexual just because I would have sex with someone who is transgender.

If you would have sex with a transgender then maybe your preferences do extend beyond bisexuality. I have to admit I'm sort of leaning over on Jack's side here, the facts are there in black and white. It's up to people to accept them.

[Vicky.]

How's things with the baby? Not sure if I ever said congrats btw, so congrats :amazed:

Will reply on your wall so as not to take this offtopic and give people reason to moan. cant be done with arguing on my first day back :laugh:

Edit. Ontopic..I only know one trangendered guy. He hasnt had his ops and that yet though but he identifies himself as a woman and is seriously offended if people regard him as 'transexual'. Obviously one example isnt much but I dont agree with this 'third gender' thing really.

From the explanations in this thread..I *think* I get the difference between pansxuality and bisexuality though its very confusing I have to admit.

[Kizzy]

Well I'll let her answer that.

And no, because the way I see it is, if you wish to give yourself a label, that's fine. If you don't want to give yourself a label, that's fine. People can identify themselves however they wish and it's rude to directly criticise those labels. I'd actually quite like to make the point that before this happened last night many people were asking questions like 'well surely it's just the same thing as bisexual?' and 'what's the difference between them?' and you'll notice I didn't have an issue - because they're enquiring and not being insulting about it.

Besides, if you believe that is the case - she was accusing herself of trying to be 'different' for the hell of it by using the pansexual label. That doesn't make sense, so it can't be the case. Even if it is, it's still offensive to people who are. I don't have to identify myself as that to find it offensive you know, as I made clear, if the comments had been directed at any other sexual orientation this whole thread would have panned out exactly the same.



Well from what I have gathered she has claimed in this thread and in other threads like it to be bisexual, that's what she voted on the poll - there is an option for 'Unidentified' so forgive me for misinterpreting if that is the case, it's not exactly my fault is it? A couple of people asked me for how I saw pansexuality, so I explained - it's nothing to do with 'deciphering' how anybody feels. That's how I see it, another member then insinuated that Ninastar was pansexual so what am I supposed to do when she's clearly voted and stated otherwise? You're making out like she is yet she's stated she isn't and has voted bisexual. If that isn't the case then I apologise (I'm able to), but like I said, all I have to go off is how she has explained her sexuality, so I'm hardly going to decide anything else for her am I? I don't even understand what this has to do with the issue...

And Christ almighty, where am I supposed to start with that? It's quite easy for somebody who hasn't had struggles with understanding their sexuality to make out that it's not as complex and as difficult as some people make out, it's alright when you're sitting pretty without a care in the world in regards to that aspect of your life. But funnily enough it isn't for those who do have to experience it, and for you to make out people are hypersensitive about it when there are people (youths in particular) who feel isolated from society and end up self-harming and taking their lives over this kinda thing is just unreal. The heterosexuals that struggle with their sexuality are few and far between and as such, you have absolutely no understanding of how anybody else is feeling.

There you go again, just stop... you don't know anything about anyones sexuality past, present or future.
I would tend to agree with nina, there are those who bleat and wring their hands as though they are the only ones in the universe who faces such struggles, and downplays the feelings and the psychological trauma suffered by others deemed to be less troubled for whatever reason.

[Urban Cragou]

There you go again, just stop... you don't know anything about anyones sexuality past, present or future.
I would tend to agree with nina, there are those who bleat and wring their hands as though they are the only ones in the universe who faces such struggles, and downplays the feelings and the psychological trauma suffered by others deemed to be less troubled for whatever reason.

He does make some excellent points though. Why would anybody be ashamed of being heterosexual? I'm not saying that people shouldn't be proud of who they are but straight people have had it relatively easy in history and have never been on the receiving end of any nasty and ignorant abuse.

[Jack_]

There you go again, just stop... you don't know anything about anyones sexuality past, present or future.
I would tend to agree with nina, there are those who bleat and wring their hands as though they are the only ones in the universe who faces such struggles, and downplays the feelings and the psychological trauma suffered by others deemed to be less troubled for whatever reason.

Why I'm bothering to reply when all you ever get is a sentence or two as a response I don't really know...

I never said some heterosexuals don't struggle, but come on, it's comparatively less compared to other orientations.

And hang on a minute...that's completely untrue. Perhaps if you paid any attention to a lot of my posts in serious topics on here you'd notice that I quite often defend the most vulnerable in society, those who face a lot of struggles with issues that have nothing to do with sexuality. I'm a big supporter of minority rights, stick up for those most demonised and at the very bottom of the social scale. Don't try and make out because I've spoken about struggles that perhaps I or other people have faced that that's all I go on about, when I quite clearly do not. Struggling is struggling. It's not a competition, all cases are as bad as each other and require equal levels of compassion.

He does make some excellent points though. Why would anybody be ashamed of being heterosexual? I'm not saying that people shouldn't be proud of who they are but straight people have had it relatively easy in history and have never been on the receiving end of any nasty and ignorant abuse.

Exactly. Thank you.

Jesus made a good point the other day when he said that as a straight man he sometimes forgets how easy it can be to be heterosexual and how it isn't possible for him to understand the struggles people who aren't heterosexual go through and so he remains accepting and respectful. I think it was along those lines anyway, hopefully he won't mind me quoting it.

It's not to say they haven't ever received abuse, I'm sure there's some cases in the world, but let's not delude ourselves here, compared to most other orientations they have it and have always had it relatively easy.

[Kizzy]

He does make some excellent points though. Why would anybody be ashamed of being heterosexual? I'm not saying that people shouldn't be proud of who they are but straight people have had it relatively easy in history and have never been on the receiving end of any nasty and ignorant abuse.

I am heterosexual, are all heterosexual people in the world born knowing they are such? do they not have the same struggles throughout puberty and into young adulthood, confusing or conflicting feelings?...
One sexuality does not have the monopoly on emotional trauma.
Jack began this crusade as he was offended by a comment made, has battled on all day and is now making more unwarranted comments trying to prove a point on a subject that ultimately he has no knowledge of.

[Urban Cragou]

Why I'm bothering to reply when all you ever get is a sentence or two as a response I don't really know...

I never said some heterosexuals don't struggle, but come on, it's comparatively less compared to other orientations.

And hang on a minute...that's completely untrue. Perhaps if you paid any attention to a lot of my posts in serious topics on here you'd notice that I quite often defend the most vulnerable in society, those who face a lot of struggles with issues that have nothing to do with sexuality. I'm a big supporter of minority rights, stick up for those most demonised and at the very bottom of the social scale. Don't try and make out because I've spoken about struggles that perhaps I or other people have faced that that's all I go on about, when I quite clearly do not. Struggling is struggling. It's not a competition, all cases are as bad as each other and require equal levels of compassion.



Exactly. Thank you.

Jesus made a good point the other day when he said that as a straight man he sometimes forgets how easy it can be to be heterosexual and how it isn't possible for him to understand the struggles people who aren't heterosexual go through and so he remains accepting and respectful. I think it was along those lines anyway, hopefully he won't mind me quoting it.

It's not to say they haven't ever received abuse, I'm sure there's some cases in the world, but let's not delude ourselves here, compared to most other orientations they have it and have always had it relatively easy.
:joker:

I couldn't resist laughing at Jesus being tolerant of sexual minorities.
I am heterosexual, are all heterosexual people in the world born knowing they are such? do they not have the same struggles throughout puberty and into young adulthood, confusing or conflicting feelings?...
One sexuality does not have the monopoly on emotional trauma.
Jack began this crusade as he was offended by a comment made, has battled on all day and is now making more unwarranted comments trying to prove a point on a subject that ultimately he has no knowledge of.

Well yeah that's right. Obviously most people go through weird sexual phases in their life and may be unsure/confused about who they are, but surely you have to admit that people who aren't straight have it ten-fold?

[Jack_]

:joker:

I couldn't resist laughing at Jesus being tolerant of sexual minorities.


Of course, I totally missed the obvious joke in that! Reading it back it's funny :joker: