So its Racist to not finds blacks attractive

[Lister of Smeg]

Well I must be the most racist person in the world because I dont particularly find black women that attractive why my personal preference I prefer white women does that mean I could never find a black woman attractive in future not really . Ginas pathetic she pulled the race card out of her arse for no real reason and Big Brother deserve to be panned for their completely spineless actions .

[lostalex]

There are beautiful people of all races.

It's racist to make a general statement about ALL people of a certain race.

Are you saying that there's not a single black woman(or man) on this planet that you would find attractive?

Why make such general statements like that?

There are beautiful and sexy people of all races, you haven't met every person of every race, so why would you feel the need to make generalizations like that?
It's basically saying that even if you met the most sexy, beautiful, clever, intelligent, kind, friendly, funny person in the world, if they were black, you wouldn't be attracted to them, just because they are black.

[GiRTh]

She's embarrassing. Nothing more to say.

[LikeABoatOnWater]

There are beautiful and sexy people of all races, you haven't met every person of every race, so why would you feel the need to make generalizations like that?

Wrong, I haven't met every giraffe in the world, but I'm certain I wouldn't find any of them attractive.

[karezza]

Gina is the racist. I feel sorry for Jemima.

[Kennysmcfc1968]

That not what ment by that statement is just a personal preference
Not a statement of race

[Kennysmcfc1968]

That not what ment by that statement is just a personal preference
Not a statement of race

[Marsh.]

Are you saying that there's not a single black woman(or man) on this planet that you would find attractive?

To be fair, the OP said

I dont particularly find black women that attractive why my personal preference I prefer white women does that mean I could never find a black woman attractive in future not really.

But in answer to the question, I think it was more that Jemima made an automatic assumption that Gina wouldn't go for white guys purely because she is black.

[lostalex]

Wrong, I haven't met every giraffe in the world, but I'm certain I wouldn't find any of them attractive.

so you are comparing black people to being a completely different species?

and you don't see how that would be offensive?

[cassieparis]

Well I must be the most racist person in the world because I dont particularly find black women that attractive why my personal preference I prefer white women does that mean I could never find a black woman attractive in future not really . Ginas pathetic she pulled the race card out of her arse for no real reason and Big Brother deserve to be panned for their completely spineless actions .
Beyonce said to tell you, she don't believe you :conf: as did Kerry Washington and Halle Berry

[Mrluvaluva]

I think it's a bit pathetic. If Gina would not have made an issue out of the whole thing, I don't think Big Brother would have reacted to it, but they are **** scared of any scandals now and have to cover themselves at every opportunity. As far as I could gather, she was talking about her preferences in general. I didn't hear her say she could never find a black man attractive. I would say it had more to do with human nature than racism. I actually wonder if this would have been a talking point had the annoying bitch not made such an issue out of it.

[ruiphillips]

No. What's racist is to say a black woman like Gina wouldn't find a white guy attractive.

[lostalex]

The important point is....don't make generalized statements about ANY race, for any reasons. Just treat everyone as individuals and you won't get into any trouble.

[fruit_cake]

The important point is....don't make generalized statements about ANY race, for any reasons. Just treat everyone as individuals and you won't get into any trouble.

there's a lot of truth in that, well said Alex

[LikeABoatOnWater]

The important point is....don't make generalized statements about ANY race, for any reasons. Just treat everyone as individuals and you won't get into any trouble.

So if I was to say, "All Asians are so hot". Thats racist?

[Marsh.]

Why would you say all asians are all hot though? :laugh:

Generalisation in general whether it's positive or negative is just stupid.

[sampvt]

There are beautiful people of all races.

It's racist to make a general statement about ALL people of a certain race.

Are you saying that there's not a single black woman(or man) on this planet that you would find attractive?

Why make such general statements like that?

There are beautiful and sexy people of all races, you haven't met every person of every race, so why would you feel the need to make generalizations like that?
It's basically saying that even if you met the most sexy, beautiful, clever, intelligent, kind, friendly, funny person in the world, if they were black, you wouldn't be attracted to them, just because they are black.

I don't dislike blacks but if I was single I wouldn't date one, just the same as I wouldn't date a gay person, does that make me homophobic because I have straight views and preferences based on my own personal opinions. Your argument is so vague you could drive a bus through it. We are all entitled to out=r opinions and likes and she defo didn't mean her comments to be racist, that's just plain stupid.

[karezza]

Is it racist to vote to evict Gina?

[lostalex]

I don't dislike blacks but if I was single I wouldn't date one, just the same as I wouldn't date a gay person, does that make me homophobic because I have straight views and preferences based on my own personal opinions. Your argument is so vague you could drive a bus through it. We are all entitled to out=r opinions and likes and she defo didn't mean her comments to be racist, that's just plain stupid.

My argument isn't vague at all. My argument is that you should judge everyone as an individual.

Saying black people are not hot is not an opinion, because she hasn't met every single black person, so how can she say that every single black person is not hot?

She was saying that black people are not attractive to her without meeting every sing;e black person. how does she know that she doesn't find black people attractive if she hasn't met every single black person?

It's obviously RACIST to generalize about all black people.

IF she had said, "i've never met a black person that i'm attracted to". that would be very different, that would be an opinion. That would be perfectly fine

But she didn't say that. She said that she's not attracted to black people.

[cassieparis]

So if I was to say, "All Asians are so hot". Thats racist?

Yes it is. You are referring to billions of people as one homogenous hot mass based on their race. The statement disregards any individuality identity or unique characteristics. They're all the same.

[lostalex]

When she says "i'm not attracted to black people" it sounds like she doesn't WANT to be attracted to any black person, and that the minute she knows that someone is black, she immediately considers them unattractive.

It doesn't sound like she is open minded at all, it sounds like she has a REASON to find all black people unattractive.

I don't know what that reason is, i don't know where it comes from. But it is certainly racist to say that any black person, no matter who they are are, is automatically unattractive in her eyes, just based on being black.

[cassieparis]

When she says "i'm not attracted to black people" it sounds like she doesn't WANT to be attracted to any black person, and that the minute she knows that someone is black, she immediately considers them unattractive.

It doesn't sound like she is open minded at all, it sounds like she has a REASON to find all black people unattractive.

I don't know what that reason is, i don't know where it comes from. But it is certainly racist to say that any black person, no matter who they are are, is automatically unattractive in her eyes, just based on being black.

The view you describe is rife on this board and posters feel perfectly justified to just throw it out there.
Being attracted or unattracted to a entire race is racist

[sampvt]

When she says "i'm not attracted to black people" it sounds like she doesn't WANT to be attracted to any black person, and that the minute she knows that someone is black, she immediately considers them unattractive.

It doesn't sound like she is open minded at all, it sounds like she has a REASON to find all black people unattractive.

I don't know what that reason is, i don't know where it comes from. But it is certainly racist to say that any black person, no matter who they are are, is automatically unattractive in her eyes, just based on being black.

No need to drive a bus now, you are doing a great job of rubbishing your own argument. Why don't you just come out and say its illegal to say you don't like someone, forgive me but I thought that fell under personal preference which the last time I looked, was a perfectly legal and not at all racist.

This argument you are pitching is about as believable as Rylan getting an award for looking like last years Derby winner.

[DanielJordan1991]

RovF1zsDoeM

[Rustic bauble]

We all have our own personal preference to people we find attractive.... it was disgusting the 'race' card was played. This country takes the 'politically correct' card to the extreme.... if someone prefers blondes to brunettes does that make them racist?....get a life BB...punish the ones who try and play the card for their own gain. Jemima did nothing wrong...end of!!

[sampvt]

We all have our own personal preference to people we find attractive.... it was disgusting the 'race' card was played. This country takes the 'politically correct' card to the extreme.... if someone prefers blondes to brunettes does that make them racist?....get a life BB...punish the ones who try and play the card for their own gain. Jemima did nothing wrong...end of!!

Good post but I don't think you are going to get it by certain posters as they are never wrong and we are not allowed to have opinions.

[rionablue]

I think it's a bit pathetic. If Gina would not have made an issue out of the whole thing, I don't think Big Brother would have reacted to it, but they are **** scared of any scandals now and have to cover themselves at every opportunity. As far as I could gather, she was talking about her preferences in general. I didn't hear her say she could never find a black man attractive. I would say it had more to do with human nature than racism. I actually wonder if this would have been a talking point had the annoying bitch not made such an issue out of it.

I TOTALLY agree Mrluvaluva :hugesmile:

[armand.kay]

So if a black guy went on a blind date and was turned down because he is black...that would not be racist?

[armand.kay]

I'm sorry but if someone's race determines how you feel about someone, then you must be a bit racist.

[Tulin]

Is it racist to vote to evict Gina?

ANYTHING you do against a person of colour is racist.

Didn't you get the memo?

:xyxwave:

[joeysteele]

I also think it was Jemima saying that Gina wouldn't go out with white guys that sparked the warning.

However since they were talking about dating and being romantically involved with men then I didn't see anything racist in the argument,only their own personal preferences which they are fully entitled to have.
Really I feel Jemima walked into Gina's trap by saying too much.

Possibly the most ridiculous warning I have seen given to any housemate on BB ever.

[Tulin]

Why don't you just come out and say its illegal to say you don't like someone

Oh trust me - that's coming!

Give it another twenty or so years and the PC nannies will have their Thought Police on every corner.

It's EFFING terrifying actually.

[Kizzy]

Urgh gina is pure poison she orchestrated that whole scenario out of nothing, there was no malicious intent in the initial statement by jemima.
Gina following her around the house was much more intimidating.

[greatsite]

So if I was to say, "All Asians are so hot". Thats racist?

No

Yes it is. You are referring to billions of people as one homogenous hot mass based on their race. The statement disregards any individuality identity or unique characteristics. They're all the same.

No its not. All asians are so hot is prejudice not racism. Gina could leave the house now with her head held high.

[MatthewS]

She was talking about her 'ideal' guy, and yes, according to big brother, if you answer that question by specifically stating a particular race doesn't generally do it for you, you've breached the rules. It's mind blowing.

[ozzyshaggah]

the warning was nothing more than a pathetic attempt to drum up interest in the show via the morons of the media

[thesheriff443]

Urgh gina is pure poison she orchestrated that whole scenario out of nothing, there was no malicious intent in the initial statement by jemima.
Gina following her around the house was much more intimidating.

was thinking the same:xyxwave:

[BigBrotherfan4ever]

I think Gina was out of order playing the race card, after all Gemima only stated her preference in the type of guy she likes, but cause Gina felt it was races, so BB had not option but to give Gemima a warning.

[cassieparis]

No



No its not. All asians are so hot is prejudice not racism. Gina could leave the house now with her head held high.
The comment objectifies and relegates every single last Asian (a race) on the planet by a single subjective sexualised characteristic. It's is racially predjuiced towards Asian people who widely vary, even racially.
:nono:

[The Human Santapede]

so you are comparing black people to being a completely different species?

and you don't see how that would be offensive?

Oh Alex, shut up. Stop twisting things into things they are not.

[karezza]

Does Gina find Eskimos or Australian Aboriginals attractive?

[Yayita]

I admit I missed the nuttiness in this forum...LOL, I see Sampy is still in the middle of them all.

[Vicky.]

Its a fine line I think..if you arent generally attracted to black people then of course its not racist. It is personal taste. It is no different to saying you dont find ginger hair attractive, or that you fancy skinny people rather than muscley ones.

If you would not date a black person just BECAUSE they were black, then you are racist.

[Roy Mars III]

some races are statically hotter than others

[CaudleHalbard]

From my personal observations, I've concluded that many white women find black men appealing (and conversely black men find white women appealing). To the extent that they sometimes end up as spouses/partners.

The converse does not seem to apply, however, and the "white man - black woman" combination is a relative rarity.

[Livia]

From my personal observations, I've concluded that many white women find black men appealing (and conversely black men find white women appealing). To the extent that they sometimes end up as spouses/partners.

The converse does not seem to apply, however, and the "white man - black woman" combination is a relative rarity.

Whereas there are plenty of men - especially older men - married to oriental women, but there seems to be very few white women married to oriental men. Who cares? I thought no one, but apparently some people care deeply over who fancies whom and why.

[Fish_Fingers]

Absolutely unbelievable. I was really warming to Gina, and I think Jemima is a total joke who looks like an old sea hag. But, but, but - that warning totally took the biscuit. So she's not attracted to black guys. So the eff what?? Perhaps she's also not attracted to male dwarves, or blokes with severe learning disabilities either. Is that also innappropriate?

[Yayita]

It was a dumb argument and BB got involved just in case and so that the overly sensitive viewers dont start writting letters. I too dont find certain races attractive but I dont consider myself racist. The eye likes what the eye likes and sometimes you just dont like certain features.

[Yayita]

LOL, fish fingers.... Im not sure if you really are a new member but I love your name and avatar :)

[Johnnyuk123]

No. What's racist is to say a black woman like Gina wouldn't find a white guy attractive.

BUT....Gina has already said that she doesn't like ANY of the guys in the house.
& racism is NOT a one way street.

[sampvt]

If you listen or believe the utterances of a self confessed liar and seemingly lower working class hood *****, then you may spring to the conclusion that BB has miffed it up. I fear not, she has looked for an opening to get air time but she didn't think too hard before she opened her daft gob.

Her assessment of what was said was based on cherry picking words and a sentences she needed to promote her cause. Get the daft cow out, her conflicting brashes are moot and she needs to take her sorry ass back to the hood and her storyline needs to follow her. £18,000 a month rent and a 2 bob hair do just don't gel.

[Marsh.]

BUT....Gina has already said that she doesn't like ANY of the guys in the house.
& racism is NOT a one way street.


That's got bugger all to do with it. Not fancying anyone in the house and "not going for white guys" are two different things.

[chuff me dizzy]

I think it's a bit pathetic. If Gina would not have made an issue out of the whole thing, I don't think Big Brother would have reacted to it, but they are **** scared of any scandals now and have to cover themselves at every opportunity. As far as I could gather, she was talking about her preferences in general. I didn't hear her say she could never find a black man attractive. I would say it had more to do with human nature than racism. I actually wonder if this would have been a talking point had the annoying bitch not made such an issue out of it.

EXACTLY ! and since when has black been a race ? as far as im aware its a colour . as you say ,it is Jemimas "choice" by time some folk wound their arrogant necks in

[Supernovarolla]

I'm sorry but if someone's race determines how you feel about someone, then you must be a bit racist.

If you think someone is a "bit racist" because of who they find sexually attractive then you need to get out more.

[chuff me dizzy]

If you think someone is a "bit racist" because of who they find sexually attractive then you need to get out more.

:thumbs:

[sampvt]

EXACTLY ! and since when has black been a race ? as far as im aware its a colour . as you say ,it is Jemimas "choice" by time some folk wound their arrogant necks in

Hey up chuck, you are bang to rights again. All these so called politically correct nutters just need to live a little. You are also right that Black is a colour and not a race as my neighbour will testify, he was born and bred in Leeds and is as black as the ace of spades and the nearest he has been to the Caribbean is Blackpool or Brid, his wife is a white lass for Ponty.

I am hanging back to pass judgement this year as there are way too many oddballs and some that haven't yet shown their hands but I tend to like Callum and Sam, but that might change as the weeks go by. The one I don't like is that bloody mole, he needs some serious acting lessons.

[chuff me dizzy]

Hey up chuck, you are bang to rights again. All these so called politically correct nutters just need to live a little. You are also right that Black is a colour and not a race as my neighbour will testify, he was born and bred in Leeds and is as black as the ace of spades and the nearest he has been to the Caribbean is Blackpool or Brid, his wife is a white lass for Ponty.

I am hanging back to pass judgement this year as there are way too many oddballs and some that haven't yet shown their hands but I tend to like Callum and Sam, but that might change as the weeks go by. The one I don't like is that bloody mole, he needs some serious acting lessons.

I loved Sm first night, now hes getting my back up,like Dan,Daley best ,hope Sallie stays and the vile ho leaves ,knock her overinflated ego to touch

[MatthewS]

EXACTLY ! and since when has black been a race ? as far as im aware its a colour . as you say ,it is Jemimas "choice" by time some folk wound their arrogant necks in

Bingo.

[letmein]

EXACTLY ! and since when has black been a race ? as far as im aware its a colour .

You're not aware of much. African (or "black") IS a race, just as Caucasian (or "white") is. Did you complete school?:shocked:

Also, are you aware of how capitalization and apostrophes work?:joker:

[letmein]

Whereas there are plenty of men - especially older men - married to oriental women, but there seems to be very few white women married to oriental men. Who cares? I thought no one, but apparently some people care deeply over who fancies whom and why.

We don't say "oriental" anymore, just as we don't say "negro". The term you're looking for is "Asian".:xyxwave:

[CaudleHalbard]

We don't say "oriental" anymore, just as we don't say "negro". The term you're looking for is "Asian".:xyxwave:

Nobody in the UK says Asian unless they mean of Indian/Pakistani origin. Asian meaning oriental is an American term.

It is very much 'oriental' in this country.

[chuff me dizzy]

You're not aware of much. African (or "black") IS a race, just as Caucasian (or "white") is. Did you complete school?:shocked:

Also, are you aware of how capitalization and apostrophes work?:joker:

Please post a link where Jemima actually said the word AFRICAN

[chuff me dizzy]

We don't say "oriental" anymore, just as we don't say "negro". The term you're looking for is "Asian".:xyxwave:

Who made you the spokesman for what we are allowed to say ???? and who is the "We???" its certainly not me, I can speak and think for myself I dont need someone with a filthy photo on his page to correct me ,,thanks

[jet]

So what did J mean when she said to Gina that she was sure that Gina wouldn't go out with a white guy? If that comment wasn't showing some racism, then what the hell was it?

[chuff me dizzy]

So what did J mean when she said to Gina that she was sure that Gina wouldn't go out with a white guy? If that comment wasn't showing some racism, then what the hell was it?

It was Jemimas opinion ,or is she not allowed one ?Racism works two ways ,not one

[jet]

It was Jemimas opinion ,or is she not allowed one ?Racism works two ways ,not one

Opinions are formed from our personal knowledge and experiences. How can J possibly know what Gina would or wouldn't do?
Can anyone actually answer the question I asked in a rational manner?

[sampvt]

You're not aware of much. African (or "black") IS a race, just as Caucasian (or "white") is. Did you complete school?:shocked:

Also, are you aware of how capitalization and apostrophes work?:joker:

She probably is aware how to read, write, spell and use correct punctuation but there again, who gives a crap when confronted by numpties that think that tosser pics signify their value of worth. If you want people to take you seriously and reply correctly to your posts, I suggest you act accordingly.

Your generalisation of Black and white is laughable. There are hundreds of race cultures and you seem to think they are covered by 2. BTW you picked on the wrong girl in Chuff, good luck but if I were you I would leave her alone and find someone your own size. BTW I am glad I am not you, just before you throw it back at me.

[chuff me dizzy]

Opinions are formed from our personal knowledge and experiences. How can J possibly know what Gina would or wouldn't do?
Can anyone actually answer the question I asked in a rational manner?

I answered in a rational manner ,you ought to read my replies if i dont :joker: and likewise how can you know why Jemima asked her ?

[Ammi]

It was Jemimas opinion ,or is she not allowed one ?Racism works two ways ,not one

..the thing is though Chuff, would she have said something similar to say Sallie or Charlie..would she have said, 'I don't suppose you would be attracted to a white guy'...?...I can't imagine her saying that so she said it to Gina based on the colour of her skin, which is racist....I do agree that Gina pushed and manipulated the situation and that Jemima felt under pressure and probably didn't mean it that way but she did say it and I don't think that BB had any choice but to give her a warning over it....

[chuff me dizzy]

She probably is aware how to read, write, spell and use correct punctuation but there again, who gives a crap when confronted by numpties that think that tosser pics signify their value of worth. If you want people to take you seriously and reply correctly to your posts, I suggest you act accordingly.

Your generalisation of Black and white is laughable. There are hundreds of race cultures and you seem to think they are covered by 2. BTW you picked on the wrong girl in Chuff, good luck but if I were you I would leave her alone and find someone your own size. BTW I am glad I am not you, just before you throw it back at me.

:joker::joker::joker: Do you know something my good friend ,some things are not worthy of an answer

[Vicky.]

Gina had already decided Jemima was racist even before the 'you wouldnt go for a white guy' comment. I explained my thoughts on that on another thread..but here we go again. AT that point Jemima had already been backed into a corner with ridiculous accusations so was panicking and yes, what she said was stupid, but I would imagine most people would flap a bit when being accused of being racist on TV tbh..mud sticks, even if its not true, people know this.

[chuff me dizzy]

..the thing is though Chuff, would she have said something similar to say Sallie or Charlie..would she have said, 'I don't suppose you would be attracted to a white guy'...?...I can't imagine her saying that so she said it to Gina based on the colour of her skin, which is racist....I do agree that Gina pushed and manipulated the situation and that Jemima felt under pressure and probably didn't mean it that way but she did say it and I don't think that BB had any choice but to give her a warning over it....

Maybe if the situation came up,she could have asked them, but she was talking to Michael and Miss Upherownarse had to put her nose in

[chuff me dizzy]

Gina had already decided Jemima was racist even before the 'you wouldnt go for a white guy' comment. I explained my thoughts on that on another thread..but here we go again. AT that point Jemima had already been backed into a corner with ridiculous accusations so was panicking and yes, what she said was stupid, but I would imagine most people would flap a bit when being accused of being racist on TV tbh..mud sticks, even if its not true, people know this.

EXACTLY

[Kizzy]

Just don't let yourselves get drawn out guys, if that is your interpretation of the discussion then that's it. :)

[jet]

Gina had already decided Jemima was racist even before the 'you wouldnt go for a white guy' comment. I explained my thoughts on that on another thread..but here we go again. AT that point Jemima had already been backed into a corner with ridiculous accusations so was panicking and yes, what she said was stupid, but I would imagine most people would flap a bit when being accused of being racist on TV tbh..mud sticks, even if its not true, people know this.

I agree that Gina jumped on J for no good reason...or so it seemed. But now I think it's possible that Gina had already detected something in J previously and may have been proved right. No way on earth I would have said what J did to Gina under any circumstances or provocation. If someone accused me of racism I wouldn't say something to confirm their accusation.
Maybe she is stupid. Maybe she did panic. We don't know. But the truth often comes out when someone is panicked and stupidity is no excuse for a racist remark. BB couldn't just let it go in any case. They were right to caution her.

[fruit_cake]

Black is a race as far as I'm aware. The correct terminology is 'negroid' and for white persons it's 'caucasoid' unless I'm very much mistaken.

[MatthewS]

Yeah, but in the context of the conversation, she wasn't speaking of race. She was speaking on the skin tone she finds herself usually dating. That skin tone happens to be dark, but not black. Referring to the colour, not whether or not she would ever fancy someone of that specific race. Their is a difference....

The only reason that entire conversation turned 'racial' is because Gina wanted it to...

She also explicitly followed that up saying she finds Daley attractive, but he's attached....

[fruit_cake]

If someone says 'black man' to me, I'm thinking of the race, not the colour in general, I think most people would be too :conf2:

[Johnnyuk123]

I'm still offended that there are no orange people in the house.

[MatthewS]

If someone says 'black man' to me, I'm thinking of the race, not the colour in general, I think most people would be too :conf2:

I fully agree, but in the specific context of this situation....

And she didn't say "black man", she said she usually goes for 'dark skinned', like 'Mediterranean', not 'black'. As if she's automatically a racist for having a preference lol

[sampvt]

Just so you know, Black men are generally brown, Chinese are not yellow they are flesh coloured and Asians can be anything from white to light brown.

[fruit_cake]

I'm still offended that there are no orange people in the house.

:laugh:

[fruit_cake]

Just so you know, Black men are generally brown, Chinese are not yellow they are flesh coloured and Asians can be anything from white to light brown.

yes that's what I was thinking, when somebody says 'black' they mean the race, because the colour as you say there, is not black at all

[cassieparis]

She also explicitly followed that up saying she finds Daley attractive, but he's attached....
She clearly stated she liked mixed guys. Daley is mixed race.
She is not attracted to every Blackman on earth and assumed Gina would feel the same about every single last white man ever. :joker:

[MatthewS]

lolz

I didn't even know Daley was mixed race. I am clearly a massive racist.

[optimisticcynic]

No need to drive a bus now, you are doing a great job of rubbishing your own argument. Why don't you just come out and say its illegal to say you don't like someone, forgive me but I thought that fell under personal preference which the last time I looked, was a perfectly legal and not at all racist.

This argument you are pitching is about as believable as Rylan getting an award for looking like last years Derby winner.

A personal preference based on ignorance is not immediately acceptable. The clarification that Jemima likes "darker" guys "but not black guys" reeks of an underlying idiocy which when probed further elicited the gem "you wouldn't like a white guy". This smacks of "stick to your own kind" stupidity. And to quote "I have black friends" does not permit stupid ideology. This is why I think Jemima is racist.

[sampvt]

A personal preference based on ignorance is not immediately acceptable. The clarification that Jemima likes "darker" guys "but not black guys" reeks of an underlying idiocy which when probed further elicited the gem "you wouldn't like a white guy". This smacks of "stick to your own kind" stupidity. And to quote "I have black friends" does not permit stupid ideology. This is why I think Jemima is racist.


:hugesmile::nono::sleep::hugesmile::nono::sleep:

[MatthewS]

A personal preference based on ignorance is not immediately acceptable. The clarification that Jemima likes "darker" guys "but not black guys" reeks of an underlying idiocy which when probed further elicited the gem "you wouldn't like a white guy". This smacks of "stick to your own kind" stupidity. And to quote "I have black friends" does not permit stupid ideology. This is why I think Jemima is racist.

She's talking about what skin tone she usually finds herself dating man, not which 'race' she prefers. and even if she 'prefers' to date white guys exclusively, being a racist is the act of HATING a particular race, not whether you fancy them romantically, or not.

not usually dating or not finding a race attractive ≠ hate

[cassieparis]

A personal preference based on ignorance is not immediately acceptable. The clarification that Jemima likes "darker" guys "but not black guys" reeks of an underlying idiocy which when probed further elicited the gem "you wouldn't like a white guy". This smacks of "stick to your own kind" stupidity. And to quote "I have black friends" does not permit stupid ideology. This is why I think Jemima is racist.
Why is it the worse thing you can call something racist is "racist"?
Best post I've read today.

[chuff me dizzy]

Yeah, but in the context of the conversation, she wasn't speaking of race. She was speaking on the skin tone she finds herself usually dating. That skin tone happens to be dark, but not black. Referring to the colour, not whether or not she would ever fancy someone of that specific race. Their is a difference....

The only reason that entire conversation turned 'racial' is because Gina wanted it to...

She also explicitly followed that up saying she finds Daley attractive, but he's attached....

EXACTLY

[optimisticcynic]

She's talking about what skin tone she usually finds herself dating man, not which 'race' she prefers. and even if she 'prefers' to date white guys exclusively, being a racist is the act of HATING a particular race, not whether you fancy them romantically, or not.

not usually dating or not finding a race attractive ≠ hate

Being racist is not the act of hating a race. Oxford English Dictionary states Definition of racism
noun
[mass noun]
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

Hence she is racist, as is the person who says that black people are fast or asians can do math. Your personal interpretation of a term does not invalidate its proper use by others. I do understand that you don't believe she hates black people, but I do believe she is prone to hurtful generalisations which she feels are permissable because she has "ethnic friends".

[MatthewS]

Being racist is not the act of hating a race. Oxford English Dictionary states Definition of racism
noun
[mass noun]
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:

Hence she is racist

So because she typically finds herself dating "dark skinned" men, who happen not to be 'black', you've somehow deducted that she generally views black people as an inferior race? Even though she'd be after Daley if he were single? Surely you see how that's a massive stretch....

Their are numerous definitions for racism btw, it's a controversial term and you won't find one 'right' answer. It's also extremely context dependent. Maybe Jemima is a racist, who knows, I'm just saying that in this particular system 1) race wasn't the basis of her comments and 2) she's allowed to have a physical preference as to what she's attracted to. I've never dated an aboriginal girl in my life. If someone asked me what 'type' I usually date, and I was stupid enough to reply "dark skinned, but not aboriginal", would I be a racist?

[cassieparis]

So because she typically finds herself dating "dark skinned" men, who happen not to be 'black', you've somehow deducted that she generally views black people as an inferior race? Even though she'd be after Daley if he were single? Surely you see how that's a massive stretch....
Daley isn't black. He's mixed race. A white mother and a Nigerian father. What's with the dismissal of his white heritage?

[Bluerang1]

The title is said in a racist manner. Jemima said it in not a racist manner.

Gosh, that was terrible English.

[MatthewS]

Daley isn't black. He's mixed race. A white mother and a Nigerian father. What's with the dismissal of his white heritage?

I had no idea he was mixed race until an hour ago, and I forgot. It wasn't intentional. Do we really need to play the PC card and assume I was trying to dismiss "his white heritage"? Sorry for not thoroughly vetting his bio before posting. Perhaps a formal warning should be issued to me as I am clearly a gigantic racist.

[Vicky.]

I actually thought Daley was black too..

I dont see why it matters though really.

[RodHull]

Yeah, but in the context of the conversation, she wasn't speaking of race. She was speaking on the skin tone she finds herself usually dating. That skin tone happens to be dark, but not black. Referring to the colour, not whether or not she would ever fancy someone of that specific race. Their is a difference....

The only reason that entire conversation turned 'racial' is because Gina wanted it to...

She also explicitly followed that up saying she finds Daley attractive, but he's attached....

She actually said 'I like mixed race, like Daley I like him'

Whether he is or not I dont know, but that was her reasoning. Anyway people are missing the point. No it wasn't overt racism, but it was the sort of subtle racism that makes me cringe a bit when I hear it. Not so much her first conversation, but tbf to Gina she didn't make a big deal of it and addressed Jemima quite pleasantly at first.

But rather than just saying 'Yeah I see how you might find that offensive, Im sorry it wasn't my intention' she compounded the issue by going on about how she 'doesnt like Chinese either' and telling Gina 'well you probably dont date white guys' and it was that last comment for me that made it not acceptable.

I get she isn't some raging EDL member, and it probably came out wrong but its national TV. I mean I personally don't find Asian girls attractive as a rule, but if I was having a conversation in a room with an Asian guy sat who I barely knew I be very careful how I discussed it.

[MatthewS]

But can't we just deem it an 'offensive' remark and something stupid to have said in hindsight, especially given the context that it's on national television - without having to automatically slap the racist card on her? Sure, maybe subliminally something else is going on and she actually is a racist, but until she actually make comments that specifically reveal she views other races as inferior, we're assuming.

[Vicky.]

But can't we just deem it an 'offensive' remark and something stupid to have said in hindsight, especially given the context that it's on national television - without having to automatically slap the racist card on her? Sure, maybe subliminally something else is going on and she actually is a racist, but until she actually make comments that specifically reveal she views other races as inferior, we're assuming.

Tbf her warning was for potentially offensive language, not racism.

It was only Gina who cried racism immediately. Even before anything even slightly dodgy was said.

[optimisticcynic]

So because she typically finds herself dating "dark skinned" men, who happen not to be 'black', you've somehow deducted that she generally views black people as an inferior race? Even though she'd be after Daley if he were single? Surely you see how that's a massive stretch....

Their are numerous definitions for racism btw, it's a controversial term and you won't find one 'right' answer. It's also extremely context dependent. Maybe Jemima is a racist, who knows, I'm just saying that in this particular system 1) race wasn't the basis of her comments and 2) she's allowed to have a physical preference as to what she's attracted to. I've never dated an aboriginal girl in my life. If someone asked me what 'type' I usually date, and I was stupid enough to reply "dark skinned, but not aboriginal", would I be a racist?

I employ dark skinned guys, not black guys.
I'm friends with dark-skinned guys, not black guys.
I like dark skinned guys, not black guys.


What is the real difference between any of the above statements and the issue of dating? None. If someone won't date short/tall people, they are discriminating according to height. Fact. This may deprive them of a positive relationship in the future which is their loss, but so be it, and they may accept this. Discrimination based on race shouldn't be renamed because it makes people uneasy. It is racism. You yourself defined the response "dark skinned but not aboriginal" as stupid. Why is this? People can be racist without intending malice, but these prejudices can never be addressed until they are highlighted. The argument that she would date the mixed-race contestant Daley, is akin to the racist saying, "them others can go back where they came from but you're alright cos we've got the same accent".
The situation is overplayed as I doubt there will be many black men crying themselves to sleep at the lost chance to marry Jemima, but her statement in itself is discriminatory.

[cassieparis]

I had no idea he was mixed race until an hour ago, and I forgot. It wasn't intentional. Do we really need to play the PC card and assume I was trying to dismiss "his white heritage"? Sorry for not thoroughly vetting his bio before posting. Perhaps a formal warning should be issued to me as I am clearly a gigantic racist.

When you refer to him as black in this context it totally changes the meaning of your whole argument. Hence my question.
There nothing PC about it. I'm trying to follow your logic & the facts.
If Daley is Black and Jemima believes him to be Black as you did, why did she make a statement that she isn't attracted to black guys but attracted to mixed guys like Daley?
Daley is mixed race. Jemima knows this as do you now. This isn't PC it's simple fact

[MatthewS]

Tbf her warning was for potentially offensive language, not racism.

It was only Gina who cried racism immediately. Even before anything even slightly dodgy was said.

Good point.


I employ dark skinned guys, not black guys.
I'm friends with dark-skinned guys, not black guys.
I like dark skinned guys, not black guys.


Great examples of racist comments. I don't feel Jemimas was made under the same context however. We're obviously not going to agree. Which is fine.

[RodHull]

People can be racist without intending malice, but these prejudices can never be addressed until they are highlighted.

Bravo and well said... and that was the point. Gina even said herself 'I think I just experienced racism' in a questioning way cause she wasnt sure herself but it felt wrong to her. And when you heard BB read out the transcript it didn't go down well the way she said it. Lets put it this way would Jemima be comfortable repeating that conversation to a room full of african or Caribbean people?? No probably not... well guess what she potentially/likely did just that cause shes on TV.

[MatthewS]

When you refer to him as black in this context it totally changes the meaning of your whole argument. Hence my question.
There nothing PC about it. I'm trying to follow your logic & the facts.
If Daley is Black and Jemima believes him to be Black as you did, why did she make a statement that she isn't attracted to black guys but attracted to mixed guys like Daley?
Daley is mixed race. Jemima knows this as do you now. This isn't PC it's simple fact

LOL

Can't believe you're pressing me on this. I told you in my earlier post, I had no idea he was mixed race until an hour ago, and when I was writing my reply where I referenced him as black, it slipped my mind. I run a small business and am doing multiple things here while popping in and out of the forum, it was a general oversight, I don't vet my posts before replying. Maybe I should? Instead of just correcting me and pointing out he is indeed mixed race, your initial reaction is to inquire why I'm attempting to dismiss "his white heritage". That was an assumption.

[cassieparis]

LOL

Can't believe you're pressing me on this. I told you in my earlier post, I had no idea he was mixed race until an hour ago, and when I was writing my reply where I referenced him as black, it slipped my mind. I run a small business and am doing multiple things here while popping in and out of the forum, it was a general oversight, I don't vet my posts before replying. Maybe I should? Instead of just correcting me and pointing out he is indeed mixed race, your initial reaction is to inquire why I'm attempting to dismiss "his white heritage". That was an assumption.
You're busy. You forgot. No pressure. No assumption :laugh:

[MatthewS]

Lolz

I should have learned from the Markus - Sree thread a few years back that anything race related is just problematic in general ...

[Fish_Fingers]

Some of you people have no idea about how the real world works. Whether you like it or not, people WILL judge you on your appearance. Whether you or tall or short, young or old, male or female, attractive or ugly, disabled or not, black or white, have long hair or short hair.... people will form opinions of you based on those things. Hopefully we are getting to a stage when people are not likely to be physically attacked/beaten/spat on/denied services because of those things, but it is simply ridiculous to attempt to police people's thoughts on these issues as the PC brigade would wish.

[jet]

So because she typically finds herself dating "dark skinned" men, who happen not to be 'black', you've somehow deducted that she generally views black people as an inferior race? Even though she'd be after Daley if he were single? Surely you see how that's a massive stretch....

Their are numerous definitions for racism btw, it's a controversial term and you won't find one 'right' answer. It's also extremely context dependent. Maybe Jemima is a racist, who knows, I'm just saying that in this particular system 1) race wasn't the basis of her comments and 2) she's allowed to have a physical preference as to what she's attracted to. I've never dated an aboriginal girl in my life. If someone asked me what 'type' I usually date, and I was stupid enough to reply "dark skinned, but not aboriginal", would I be a racist?

You would be if the person you were talking to was aboriginal and you assumed they wouldn't date a white person, and told them so.
I have to laugh at how that one comment of J's is continually ignored and the rest of the conversation is used (which isn't relevant) to cloud the issue.
The 'you wouldn't date a white man' is the ONLY part of the convo which showed J was racist, and that is continually pointed out. Why bring up the irrelevant and not address the real elephant in the room? Eh?

[optimisticcynic]

Some of you people have no idea about how the real world works. Whether you like it or not, people WILL judge you on your appearance. Whether you or tall or short, young or old, male or female, attractive or ugly, disabled or not, black or white, have long hair or short hair.... people will form opinions of you based on those things. Hopefully we are getting to a stage when people are not likely to be physically attacked/beaten/spat on/denied services because of those things, but it is simply ridiculous to attempt to police people's thoughts on these issues as the PC brigade would wish.

If only Martin Luther King, the Suffragettes and all those other wistful PC-Brigade Marching Band Dreamers shared your insight....

When we cease to try to better ourselves, our only option is decline.

[Vicky.]

You would be if the person you were talking to was aboriginal and you assumed they wouldn't date a white person, and told them so.
I have to laugh at how that one comment of J's is continually ignored and the rest of the conversation is used (which isn't relevant) to cloud the issue.
The 'you wouldn't date a white man' is the ONLY part of the convo which showed J was racist, and that is continually pointed out. Why bring up the irrelevant and not address the real elephant in the room? Eh?

I agree that thats the only questionable part of what she said. However Gina had already decided she was racist before she said this.

[optimisticcynic]

I agree that thats the only questionable part of what she said. However Gina had already decided she was racist before she said this.

Jemima's earlier statement set off my own alarm bells about the basis for her race preference, and I, like Gina would have questioned further, and in this case, had my suspicions confirmed. The assumption about Gina is indefensible, surely?

[MatthewS]

I think even Jemima would accept the "you probably woundn't date a white man" comment might have been pushing it.

Even then though, it's not like that absolutely shows that jemina views other races as inferior to her own. It's certainly poor taste but I mean, do we think it's safe to assume that most races date within their own race? And if so, is acknowledging that someone "probably" wouldn't date someone that's outside of their race really such a reach? Or is it logical? Obviously you shouldn't say that to person in question, but I'm just commenting on the general idea...

[Vicky.]

Jemima's earlier statement set off my own alarm bells about the basis for her race preference, and I, like Gina would have questioned further, and in this case, had my suspicions confirmed. The assumption about Gina is indefensible, surely?

I dont think it is 'indefensible' really no. Of course none of us know what Jemima was thinking, but as I have stated a few times, I think she was panicking after being branded a racist and was desperately trying to explain what she had originally meant..and ended up blurting out something ridiculous like she did.

[Fish_Fingers]

If only Martin Luther King, the Suffragettes and all those other wistful PC-Brigade Marching Band Dreamers shared your insight....

When we cease to try to better ourselves, our only option is decline.


They fought against real discrimination. I don't think Martin Luther King would have been particularly concerned with what type of people an old sea hag like Jemima was attracted to.

[jet]

But can't we just deem it an 'offensive' remark and something stupid to have said in hindsight, especially given the context that it's on national television - without having to automatically slap the racist card on her? Sure, maybe subliminally something else is going on and she actually is a racist, but until she actually make comments that specifically reveal she views other races as inferior, we're assuming.

Good point, MatthewS. Perhaps 'offensive' is more appropriate than 'racist'. Your point of view says 'give her the benefit of the doubt without excusing her' and it's by far the best post I've read on this issue today. It made me reconsider. Wonderful stuff. :thumbs:

[Vicky.]

Good point, MatthewS. Perhaps 'offensive' is more appropriate than 'racist'. Your point of view says 'give her the benefit of the doubt without excusing her' and it's by far the best post I've read on this issue today. It made me reconsider. Wonderful stuff. :thumbs:

BB seem to agree with that view too. Since her warning was not for being racist but because what she said could be deemed offensive.

[optimisticcynic]

I think even Jemima would accept the "you probably woundn't date a white man" comment might have been pushing it.

Even then though, it's not like that absolutely shows that jemina views other races as inferior to her own. It's certainly poor taste but I mean, do we think it's safe to assume that most races date within their own race? And if so, is acknowledging that someone "probably" wouldn't date someone that's outside of their race really such a reach? Or is it logical? Obviously you shouldn't say that to person in question, but I'm just commenting on the general idea...

I do get why it may seem that her innocent faux-pas is being beaten to death, but it is quite a topical issue at present and changing a generation's perspective has to start with changing an individual's perspective. Interracial relationships have been fought for, and there has been significant sacrifice to challenge engraved opposition. You used the term "acknowledging", which I would have no issue with, but in Jemima's case, she was assuming, which has a more negative connotation. Take for example the racist tide of hatred spurred by the recent cheerios ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OtFRFgqHto

[jet]

I agree that thats the only questionable part of what she said. However Gina had already decided she was racist before she said this.

I know that, and I think Gina was out of order at that early point. I'm not going now by what Gina decided though - I'm going by whether J ultimately deserved to be warned by BB - and I think they did have to warn her because of the 'you wouldn't date a white man' remark. Maybe BB should have made it clearer which part of the conversation they were cautioning her about?

[Sun Tzu.]

Jamina didn't help herself with the white comment. To be honest she just came across as thick and not able to articulate her position properly. Gina realised, latched onto it and used it to try and get her out.

But it was blown out of proportion. She used generalizing to form her argument which isn't good.

[Alf]

Some of you people have no idea about how the real world works. Whether you like it or not, people WILL judge you on your appearance. Whether you or tall or short, young or old, male or female, attractive or ugly, disabled or not, black or white, have long hair or short hair.... people will form opinions of you based on those things. Hopefully we are getting to a stage when people are not likely to be physically attacked/beaten/spat on/denied services because of those things, but it is simply ridiculous to attempt to police people's thoughts on these issues as the PC brigade would wish.
Here's someone who talks a bit of sense

Very nicely said Fish Fingers

[the truth]

Ive heard people from all races and religions and yes from the so called black community state they only date, marry women and men from within that community....its not called racist then , it may be called narrow minded etc but never racist....but if a white person says anything on the topic here its racist? I think you have to look at the intention too, for example the whole jade v shilpa gate whilst going way over the top was bullying (probably not racism) she was being a bitch and using shilpas ethnicity to try and bully her with her groupies

the word racism is a very strong one and is not applicable here at all

however, a poster mentions disabled issues. I think that's a whole thoroughly more difficult more complex multi faceted issue that society hasn't even got close to addressing properly

[the truth]

I do get why it may seem that her innocent faux-pas is being beaten to death, but it is quite a topical issue at present and changing a generation's perspective has to start with changing an individual's perspective. Interracial relationships have been fought for, and there has been significant sacrifice to challenge engraved opposition. You used the term "acknowledging", which I would have no issue with, but in Jemima's case, she was assuming, which has a more negative connotation. Take for example the racist tide of hatred spurred by the recent cheerios ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OtFRFgqHto

not sure its that black and white (pun intended), maybe she simply formed this opinion about gina not the entire black community?

[Elrond Hubbard]

Lolz

I should have learned from the Markus - Sree thread a few years back that anything race related is just problematic in general ...

Not really.

Sree was just a gigantic eff-wit.

[Elrond Hubbard]

BB seem to agree with that view too. Since her warning was not for being racist but because what she said could be deemed offensive.

It's not that long until Minority Report, is it?

Friggin scary!!!

[sampvt]

Racism is getting out of control, or should I say, what people perceive racism to be is getting out of control. It is getting so we cant even mention preferences without some Blacks jumping on the band wagon. They can say anything to us like your skin is pasty and needs sun or your redness is laughable.....would we get away with commenting on their skin colour, straight hair extensions and or the colour of the makeup they use.

Seems to me that those coloured people that use blond wigs or extensions, use pasty makeup to make them look lighter and effectively try to go whiter are the very people that seem to be ashamed of their own colour or even race and have no rights to play the race card for such an innoxious comment like Jemima made.

I am defo not racist but I am against racism that is used to gain an advantage in life. Gina seems to think she is above everyone and dresses and tries to look more European than her other friends. This looks to me like she isn't all that comfortable in her own skin colour yet she champions the black racism issue to such a degree that its laughable.

[fruit_cake]

If only Martin Luther King, the Suffragettes and all those other wistful PC-Brigade Marching Band Dreamers shared your insight....

When we cease to try to better ourselves, our only option is decline.


what a great post

[smeagol]

how is this thread still going lol

bb were wrong gina was pathetic and a disgrace. the world has gone mad. you will never win the race card game. thats why its played the card beats every card in the deck .and defeats all form of justified logic.

[Livia]

how is this thread still going lol

bb were wrong gina was pathetic and a disgrace. the world has gone mad. you will never win the race card game. thats why its played the card beats every card in the deck .and defeats all form of justified logic.

This what I came in here to say. Get out of my head smeagol...

[smeagol]

This what I came in here to say. Get out of my head smeagol...

lol i might try mind control - paypal me 10 billion repeat 20 times in head lol

[Kizzy]

I do get why it may seem that her innocent faux-pas is being beaten to death, but it is quite a topical issue at present and changing a generation's perspective has to start with changing an individual's perspective. Interracial relationships have been fought for, and there has been significant sacrifice to challenge engraved opposition. You used the term "acknowledging", which I would have no issue with, but in Jemima's case, she was assuming, which has a more negative connotation. Take for example the racist tide of hatred spurred by the recent cheerios ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OtFRFgqHto

Wow thanks for posting this, what a disgusting set of responses to their campaign.
Like you I feel she simply was crushingly insensitive and a clear case of foot in mouth, the word racist is bandied around too frequently when there are comments like this.
To label someone a racist for one unintentional remark is really unacceptable too.

[sampvt]

Here is a question for all these so called cyber warriors that champion Ginas cause......How many of you would date and marry a person that was directly opposed to your own race.......Only you know that answer, so do you now view yourself as a racist. Food for thought eh. Now close this thread it is going nowhere apart from offering the so called politically correct brigade a platform to spout crap from.

[Jesus.]

Here is a question for all these so called cyber warriors that champion Ginas cause......How many of you would date and marry a person that was directly opposed to your own race.......Only you know that answer, so do you now view yourself as a racist. Food for thought eh. Now close this thread it is going nowhere apart from offering the so called politically correct brigade a platform to spout crap from.

What does "directly opposed to your own race" even mean?

I've never been out with a black girl, but I've been out with a couple of mixed race girls, a Pakistani, an Egyptian, and possibly the woman with the palest skin on earth (ginger).

It's not about being part of the politically correct brigade, but rather the need to disperse with some of the inherently racist language we still use today. The tone of your post identifies for me where your real views on race lie. It's not politically correct to disagree with you, it's completely reactionary to agree with you.

[sampvt]

What does "directly opposed to your own race" even mean?

I've never been out with a black girl, but I've been out with a couple of mixed race girls, a Pakistani, an Egyptian, and possibly the woman with the palest skin on earth (ginger).

It's not about being part of the politically correct brigade, but rather the need to disperse with some of the inherently racist language we still use today. The tone of your post identifies for me where your real views on race lie. It's not politically correct to disagree with you, it's completely reactionary to agree with you.

So by your own admission you have not been out with a black girl, by definition of what we are discussing, you are then a racist as am I (according to those that seem to know better than us) We both know this is crap as we are allowed to make a choice and both you and I are not racists, but there are some on here that think we are. How stupid is this thread and ginas actions by definition.

[Kizzy]

Here is a question for all these so called cyber warriors that champion Ginas cause......How many of you would date and marry a person that was directly opposed to your own race.......Only you know that answer, so do you now view yourself as a racist. Food for thought eh. Now close this thread it is going nowhere apart from offering the so called politically correct brigade a platform to spout crap from.

Where is it written that the races are opposed?....
This is a really strange comment sam, not sure what you mean here.

[sampvt]

Where is it written that the races are opposed?....
This is a really strange comment sam, not sure what you mean here.

What I meant was if you were a white British male would you date a black African princess or if you were a Chinese person would you date an aboriginal girl or a girl well outside your races beliefs and parameters.

I think most readers get my drift without my comments giving the race police another excuse to spout crap about my analysis of race.

[fruit_cake]

I've dated people who weren't the same race or nationality as me, I never really saw the issue..I guess I must be a racist, because I calculatingly knew they weren't the same race as me or something.

[Jesus.]

So by your own admission you have not been out with a black girl, by definition of what we are discussing, you are then a racist as am I (according to those that seem to know better than us) We both know this is crap as we are allowed to make a choice and both you and I are not racists, but there are some on here that think we are. How stupid is this thread and ginas actions by definition.

But I don't class black people as being "directly opposed to my own race". I was just giving an overview to show that I have no issues with dating anyone of any race. I'd happily date a black girl if I could find one desperate enough to go out with me.

I don't think the incident in BB was racist, but I think the phrase "you probably wouldn't date a white guy" is inherently racist. That's not to say she's racist for using it, but it shows deeply held opinions of people who haven't moved in to this century yet, and still rely on tired old stereotypes from the 70's, or have difficulty expressing their opinions correctly.

I can see how older people would have issues with the language, as I imagine living through the cross over would be difficult. My Grandma was a vicious racist who would have sent them all back on the boat if she'd had her way. Fortunately, she was just a country dweller from middle England, worried about difference and "the other".

[sampvt]

But I don't class black people as being "directly opposed to my own race". I was just giving an overview to show that I have no issues with dating anyone of any race. I'd happily date a black girl if I could find one desperate enough to go out with me.

I don't think the incident in BB was racist, but I think the phrase "you probably wouldn't date a white guy" is inherently racist. That's not to say she's racist for using it, but it shows deeply held opinions of people who haven't moved in to this century yet, and still rely on tired old stereotypes from the 70's, or have difficulty expressing their opinions correctly.

I can see how older people would have issues with the language, as I imagine living through the cross over would be difficult. My Grandma was a vicious racist who would have sent them all back on the boat if she'd had her way. Fortunately, she was just a country dweller from middle England, worried about difference and "the other".

Is that not a racist comment. Goes both ways mate. I am old but not yet senile and I have my views. The difference nowadays is we are not allowed to air them. Yet most still think them.

[chuff me dizzy]

Is that not a racist comment. Goes both ways mate. I am old but not yet senile and I have my views. The difference nowadays is we are not allowed to air them. Yet most still think them.

spot on

[Jesus.]

Is that not a racist comment. Goes both ways mate. I am old but not yet senile and I have my views. The difference nowadays is we are not allowed to air them. Yet most still think them.

In what possible universe could that be classed as racist?

That's exactly what I was getting at - I don't think those things. However, it's clear that you do, and you resent having to play "politically correct" linguistic games to avoid revealing yourself for what you truly are.

[Kizzy]

What I meant was if you were a white British male would you date a black African princess or if you were a Chinese person would you date an aboriginal girl or a girl well outside your races beliefs and parameters.

I think most readers get my drift without my comments giving the race police another excuse to spout crap about my analysis of race.

That probably is a definition of racism sam...
There are no all encompassing beliefs and parameters, we are all individuals.
If you were suggesting specific physical features then maybe I could see your point, otherwise I really don't sorry.

[fruit_cake]

Is that not a racist comment. Goes both ways mate. I am old but not yet senile and I have my views. The difference nowadays is we are not allowed to air them. Yet most still think them.

I agree with the principle of the 'it goes two ways' idea, but the practice I'm not so sure about.

The problem with that is that we live in a country where the demographic is skewed hugely in favour of the 'white-caucasian' majority. It's far more intimidating being subjected to something when you are in a minority than when you are in a majority, even if that 'thing' that is being used is the same.

Intimidating a minority, is easier than intimidating a majority, and so the theory doesn't equal the practice. imo.

[chuff me dizzy]

In what possible universe could that be classed as racist?

That's exactly what I was getting at - I don't think those things. However, it's clear that you do, and you resent having to play "politically correct" linguistic games to avoid revealing yourself for what you truly are.

How arrogant is someone who thinks theirs is the only opinion that counts ? we ALL have our opinions

[Jesus.]

How arrogant is someone who thinks theirs is the only opinion that counts ? we ALL have our opinions

Some opinions on race reside on the wrong side of enlightenment, morality, humanity, and history.

[Vicky.]

A poster on DS said this about the 'goes both ways' thing. I agree 100% with what they said. They managed to get across what they meant without sounding aggressive, or bitter, or anything like that.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=66505105&postcount=1130


As for dating someone 'directly opposed to my own race'...I have. I do not champion Ginas cause at all, I think she was bang out of order to scream racism. But some posts in this thread are questionable at the very best.

[Jesus.]

I disagree about the accent part for one very simple reason - there was an entertainment industry that existed within the UK, that existed purely by imitating and mocking people of different races.

Shows like "the black and white minstrel show", the stream of racist accents thrown around by comedians like Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning, and the way Hollywood would rather black face white people up than use black actors.

That's the historical (recent) context that has to be acknowledged. I also disagree with Gina's claim of racism, but funny accents of funny people was a staple in inequality in this country (and across the west) for a long long time.

jc1u5RpdPeY

[GiRTh]

Is this thread still on topic? Looks like it went off ages ago and its the usual suspects spouting their usual outrage.

[Kizzy]

A poster on DS said this about the 'goes both ways' thing. I agree 100% with what they said. They managed to get across what they meant without sounding aggressive, or bitter, or anything like that.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=66505105&postcount=1130


As for dating someone 'directly opposed to my own race'...I have. I do not champion Ginas cause at all, I think she was bang out of order to scream racism. But some posts in this thread are questionable at the very best.

Thanks for the link Vicky, that poster really did have an excellent perception of what progressive really does and should mean.

[chuff me dizzy]

Some opinions on race reside on the wrong side of enlightenment, morality, humanity, and history.

And whos to choose what is right and wrong ?

[Jesus.]

And whos to choose what is right and wrong ?

You make your own choice, Chuff. However, when it comes to history, then the views of Sam (and possibly yourself - I don't really know what your full views on race are, other than the fact you've defended Sam whilst I was having a discussion with him) are being consigned to history.

[Kizzy]

Seriously though There is a fine line, it is so easy to have your intent misconstrued as an offensive slur on a whole cross section of society or indeed a whole race...

[Razor]

I thought the whole thing was ridiculous.

[chuff me dizzy]

You make your own choice, Chuff. However, when it comes to history, then the views of Sam (and possibly yourself - I don't really know what your full views on race are, other than the fact you've defended Sam whilst I was having a discussion with him) are being consigned to history.

My views are exactly that ,and my choice

[Jesus.]

My views are exactly that ,and my choice

Exactly what? Sorry, I don't understand.

[cassieparis]

What I meant was if you were a white British male would you date a black African princess or if you were a Chinese person would you date an aboriginal girl or a girl well outside your races beliefs and parameters.

I think most readers get my drift without my comments giving the race police another excuse to spout crap about my analysis of race.

Who are the race police and why attempt to dismiss or belittle the opposing argument with name calling?
Any ways..... Russell Brand can answer affirmative to what ever it is you meant.
Paul Welller can answer affirmative to your question.
Michael Caine can answer affirmative to your question.
As can Luke Goss, Adam Clayton and David Frost and in the USA the list is endless let alone the ordinary man on the street, Robert De Niro, George Lucas, Boris Becker, Justin Chambers, Robin Thicke, Brad Pitt, Clint Eastwood, David Moscow, Frank Langella, Ted Danson and more historically Mr Loving.

[Livia]

Who are the race police and why attempt to dismiss or belittle the opposing argument with name calling?
Any ways..... Russell Brand can answer affirmative to what ever it is you meant.
Paul Welller can answer affirmative to your question.
Michael Caine can answer affirmative to your question.
As can Luke Goss, Adam Clayton and David Frost and in the USA the list is endless let alone the ordinary man on the street, Robert De Niro, George Lucas, Boris Becker, Justin Chambers, Robin Thicke, Brad Pitt, Clint Eastwood, David Moscow, Frank Langella, Ted Danson and historic Mr Loving.

Let it go now. If you want to get all bent out of shape because of racial discrimination, there are plenty of organisations that deal with actual discrimination far more relevant than this. I'm sure those causes would be grateful for some of the effort and time you've put into this non-event.

[sampvt]

You make your own choice, Chuff. However, when it comes to history, then the views of Sam (and possibly yourself - I don't really know what your full views on race are, other than the fact you've defended Sam whilst I was having a discussion with him) are being consigned to history.

Jesus....you seem to be promoting the fact that in the last 30yrs the world has been changed and evolved by the induction of things like racial equality, human rights and the politically correct ethos. Well it might serve you well to understand that people like Chuff and me grew up in an era that promoted free speech and double standards didn't exist.

For example we cant go to India and wear shoes in holy places, walk around in them head uncovered and must treat cows as holy and in the same breath we could and would get locked up for saying anything bad about Hinduism or indeed any holy or ethnic group in their country. Yet with the same breath they can come here and do all of the afore mentioned in our fair land and get paid for doing it at the same time. Whether that's right or wrong is not up for discussion, but discussions cause arguments, facts solve them.

In the olden days we spoke out on such a subjects freely,e but the likes of Blaire and his cronies make us all look like twats if we even dare to air our views. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. In the past my dad colloquially referred to blacks as darkies, thank god he isn't here now as he would be hung drawn and quartered, but the reason why I mentioned it was that he saw no malice in using such terminology. Do gooders today have internal views that are never aired and in many cases, they never match what comes out of their mouths. We are becoming a society of politically correct puppets. So for you to say your views are right and we are wrong, what you mean to say is that what you were taught and believe may not match up to our views so nobody will ever reign supreme on either issue.

[Kizzy]

chuff and cassie I wouldn't waste your time being drawn out on issues, your feelings are very clear. The whole debate is a grey area there is never going to be a right and a wrong answer... everything is subject to interpretation.

[Jesus.]

Jesus....you seem to be promoting the fact that in the last 30yrs the world has been changed and evolved by the induction of things like racial equality, human rights and the politically correct ethos. Well it might serve you well to understand that people like Chuff and me grew up in an era that promoted free speech and double standards didn't exist.

For example we cant go to India and wear shoes in holy places, walk around in them head uncovered and must treat cows as holy and in the same breath we could and would get locked up for saying anything bad about Hinduism or indeed any holy or ethnic group in their country. Yet with the same breath they can come here and do all of the afore mentioned in our fair land and get paid for doing it at the same time. Whether that's right or wrong is not up for discussion, but discussions cause arguments, facts solve them.

In the olden days we spoke out on such a subjects freely,e but the likes of Blaire and his cronies make us all look like twats if we even dare to air our views. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. In the past my dad colloquially referred to blacks as darkies, thank god he isn't here now as he would be hung drawn and quartered, but the reason why I mentioned it was that he saw no malice in using such terminology. Do gooders today have internal views that are never aired and in many cases, they never match what comes out of their mouths. We are becoming a society of politically correct puppets. So for you to say your views are right and we are wrong, what you mean to say is that what you were taught and believe may not match up to our views so nobody will ever reign supreme on either issue.

Do you realise how antiquated you sound? Here's a story for you, I was refused entry into St.Marks Basilica in Venice for wearing shorts. What's the difference between that and respecting religious practices in India?

You still have free speech today, Sam. You really do. It really is only free, though, and not privileged speech anymore. The craziest notions of race, gender, and sexuality, are the ones I want to hear most.

Ideals and morals are changed in the public square of discussion.

[sampvt]

Do you realise how antiquated you sound? Here's a story for you, I was refused entry into St.Marks Basilica in Venice for wearing shorts. What's the difference between that and respecting religious practices in India?

You still have free speech today, Sam. You really do. It really is only free, though, and not privileged speech anymore. The craziest notions of race, gender, and sexuality, are the ones I want to hear most.

Ideals and morals are changed in the public square of discussion.

My point was simply that in one breath we all promote free speech and opinions, on the other we are educated not to utter a word if it might offend. My era is different from your era so latitude must be given on both quarters. I was at apins to explain that there is no right or wrong, merely that others perceptions of opinionated views can be misconstrued and twisted to suit whoever wants to twist it. Is it wrong to say you would not date a black person, in my view no it isn't. \in your view yes it is. How the hell can anyone be right or wrong, it depends on what moral codes you live by.

[GiRTh]

Do you realise how antiquated you sound? Here's a story for you, I was refused entry into St.Marks Basilica in Venice for wearing shorts. What's the difference between that and respecting religious practices in India?

You still have free speech today, Sam. You really do. It really is only free, though, and not privileged speech anymore. The craziest notions of race, gender, and sexuality, are the ones I want to hear most.

Ideals and morals are changed in the public square of discussion.Ouch!!!!!!!

[chuff me dizzy]

Jesus....you seem to be promoting the fact that in the last 30yrs the world has been changed and evolved by the induction of things like racial equality, human rights and the politically correct ethos. Well it might serve you well to understand that people like Chuff and me grew up in an era that promoted free speech and double standards didn't exist.

For example we cant go to India and wear shoes in holy places, walk around in them head uncovered and must treat cows as holy and in the same breath we could and would get locked up for saying anything bad about Hinduism or indeed any holy or ethnic group in their country. Yet with the same breath they can come here and do all of the afore mentioned in our fair land and get paid for doing it at the same time. Whether that's right or wrong is not up for discussion, but discussions cause arguments, facts solve them.

In the olden days we spoke out on such a subjects freely,e but the likes of Blaire and his cronies make us all look like twats if we even dare to air our views. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. In the past my dad colloquially referred to blacks as darkies, thank god he isn't here now as he would be hung drawn and quartered, but the reason why I mentioned it was that he saw no malice in using such terminology. Do gooders today have internal views that are never aired and in many cases, they never match what comes out of their mouths. We are becoming a society of politically correct puppets. So for you to say your views are right and we are wrong, what you mean to say is that what you were taught and believe may not match up to our views so nobody will ever reign supreme on either issue.

All very true, Ithank God my Mum and Dad are no longer here to see what our country is now,My Dad fought in the war to help save free speech ,and democracy

[chuff me dizzy]

chuff and cassie I wouldn't waste your time being drawn out on issues, your feelings are very clear. The whole debate is a grey area there is never going to be a right and a wrong answer... everything is subject to interpretation.

Yes of course it is ,but everyone views should be allowed to be teier own ,with do-gooders putting their twopence in it

[Livia]

All very true, Ithank God my Mum and Dad are no longer here to see what our country is now,My Dad fought in the war to help save free speech ,and democracy

... and to defeat the Nazis, don't forget. And this country wasn't alone. It was supported by lots of other countries... and soldiers of all races.

[GiRTh]

chuff and cassie I wouldn't waste your time being drawn out on issues, your feelings are very clear. The whole debate is a grey area there is never going to be a right and a wrong answer... everything is subject to interpretation.Exactly. Interpretation? Some would find the comment 'I don't find black people attractive' to be far too similar to 'I think all black people are ugly'. In essence those two statements are the same but one would be interpreted as a personal choice where as the other would be considered highly offensive.

[Scream]

not gonna read what anyone else has said cause too many pages but i think Jemima saying Gina probably wouldn't go out with a white man could be considered offensive. she's assuming just because she's black she wouldn't want to date a white person. Her only reasoning for that is that she thinks white people don't date black people. EVERYONE IS EQUAL :'( :'( :'(

[Jesus.]

My point was simply that in one breath we all promote free speech and opinions, on the other we are educated not to utter a word if it might offend. My era is different from your era so latitude must be given on both quarters. I was at apins to explain that there is no right or wrong, merely that others perceptions of opinionated views can be misconstrued and twisted to suit whoever wants to twist it. Is it wrong to say you would not date a black person, in my view no it isn't. \in your view yes it is. How the hell can anyone be right or wrong, it depends on what moral codes you live by.

When 2 sides disagree on something, it doesn't always hold that the truth lies somewhere in between. Sometimes one side can simply be just wrong. I appreciate your era is different from mine, but I've spoken at lengths with my Da about his time growing up, and I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where "****'s out" was written on walls and bridges across the UK. I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where gollywogs were an acceptable thing to be printed on jars of breakfast preserve, and I definitely don't want to grow up in an era of politicians warning of rivers of blood.

You grew up in an era of racism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here - I don't believe you are necessarily racist, but I do believe some of the language you've used in this thread is racist.

[Urban Cragou]

When 2 sides disagree on something, it doesn't always hold that the truth lies somewhere in between. Sometimes one side can simply be just wrong. I appreciate your era is different from mine, but I've spoken at lengths with my Da about his time growing up, and I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where "****'s out" was written on walls and bridges across the UK. I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where gollywogs were an acceptable thing to be printed on jars of breakfast preserve, and I definitely don't want to grow up in an era of politicians warning of rivers of blood.

You grew up in an era of racism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here - I don't believe you are necessarily racist, but I do believe some of the language you've used in this thread is racist.

:love:

[GiRTh]

When 2 sides disagree on something, it doesn't always hold that the truth lies somewhere in between. Sometimes one side can simply be just wrong. I appreciate your era is different from mine, but I've spoken at lengths with my Da about his time growing up, and I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where "****'s out" was written on walls and bridges across the UK. I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where gollywogs were an acceptable thing to be printed on jars of breakfast preserve, and I definitely don't want to grow up in an era of politicians warning of rivers of blood.

You grew up in an era of racism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here - I don't believe you are necessarily racist, but I do believe some of the language you've used in this thread is racist.Preach it :worship:

I find it amazing the way some people hark back to some bygone era like it was so much better back then. I'm from the Chuff/Sam era too (just) and let me tell you for a black person it was horrendous. My father who came to this country in 1960 told me stories that would make you weep but according to some on this forum it was so much better back then, the PC brigade didn't exist back then, and they're to blame for everything. Bloody do-gooders.

I'm so sick of this argument and I'm so sick of the level of ignorance from people. Sam, my father is racist too. When you're dad talked of 'darkies' did you correct him? I corrected my father when spouted his bull****. If you didn't then can you explain to us why? After all he was wrong to use such language why did you let him get away with it?

[ChristmasNeeve]

Do you realise how antiquated you sound? Here's a story for you, I was refused entry into St.Marks Basilica in Venice for wearing shorts. What's the difference between that and respecting religious practices in India?

You still have free speech today, Sam. You really do. It really is only free, though, and not privileged speech anymore. The craziest notions of race, gender, and sexuality, are the ones I want to hear most.

Ideals and morals are changed in the public square of discussion.

Yeah, in Barcelona they won't let you inside some of the churches if you have your shoulders uncovered

[Kizzy]

Well this thread flew off into the stratosphere didn't it? :joker:

[Urban Cragou]

Preach it :worship:

I find it amazing the way some people hark back to some bygone era like it was so much better back then. I'm from the Chuff/Sam era too (just) and let me tell you for a black person it was horrendous. My father who came to this country in 1960 told me stories that would make you weep but according to some on this forum it was so much better back then, the PC brigade didn't exist back then, and they're to blame for everything. Bloody do-gooders.

I'm so sick of this argument and I'm so sick of the level of ignorance from people. Sam, my father is racist too. When you're dad talked of 'darkies' did you correct him? I corrected my father when spouted his bull****. If you didn't then can you explain to us why? After all he was wrong to use such language why did you let him get away with it?

This as well. I tend to roll my eyes at the same few who keep banging on about the 1950s and '60s being this happy utopia where everyone got along when they totally disregard the horrific intolerance and poverty of that era. :rolleyes:

Things are a damnsite better now, despite what some may say. I'd rather live in a century where people are actually accepted for who they are.

[Livia]

When 2 sides disagree on something, it doesn't always hold that the truth lies somewhere in between. Sometimes one side can simply be just wrong. I appreciate your era is different from mine, but I've spoken at lengths with my Da about his time growing up, and I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where "****'s out" was written on walls and bridges across the UK. I wouldn't want to grow up in an era where gollywogs were an acceptable thing to be printed on jars of breakfast preserve, and I definitely don't want to grow up in an era of politicians warning of rivers of blood.

You grew up in an era of racism. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here - I don't believe you are necessarily racist, but I do believe some of the language you've used in this thread is racist.

Preach it :worship:

I find it amazing the way some people hark back to some bygone era like it was so much better back then. I'm from the Chuff/Sam era too (just) and let me tell you for a black person it was horrendous. My father who came to this country in 1960 told me stories that would make you weep but according to some on this forum it was so much better back then, the PC brigade didn't exist back then, and they're to blame for everything. Bloody do-gooders.

I'm so sick of this argument and I'm so sick of the level of ignorance from people. Sam, my father is racist too. When you're dad talked of 'darkies' did you correct him? I corrected my father when spouted his bull****. If you didn't then can you explain to us why? After all he was wrong to use such language why did you let him get away with it?


I have nothing to add. I just think these two perfect posts needed repeating.

[letmein]

All very true, Ithank God my Mum and Dad are no longer here to see what our country is now,My Dad fought in the war to help save free speech ,and democracy

There isn't free speech in Britain. Hate speech is a punishable offense. I don't know where you got this free speech jargon from.

[letmein]

Racism is getting out of control, or should I say, what people perceive racism to be is getting out of control. It is getting so we cant even mention preferences without some Blacks jumping on the band wagon. They can say anything to us like your skin is pasty and needs sun or your redness is laughable.....would we get away with commenting on their skin colour, straight hair extensions and or the colour of the makeup they use.

Seems to me that those coloured people that use blond wigs or extensions, use pasty makeup to make them look lighter and effectively try to go whiter are the very people that seem to be ashamed of their own colour or even race and have no rights to play the race card for such an innoxious comment like Jemima made.

I am defo not racist but I am against racism that is used to gain an advantage in life. Gina seems to think she is above everyone and dresses and tries to look more European than her other friends. This looks to me like she isn't all that comfortable in her own skin colour yet she champions the black racism issue to such a degree that its laughable.

"Coloured people"??? OMG! :shocked:

[chuff me dizzy]

"Coloured people"??? OMG! :shocked:

Oh FFS :bored:

[ChristmasNeeve]

I think this thread has run it's course - Closed.