Attitudes to women in society

[elliebrew]

This Hazel witch hunt reminds of everything I despise in human nature

Reminds me if the patriarchal oppression we've had in the world for centuries that were only just thankfully abolishing

Men in the dark ages used to rape and abuse women and then claim the women where witches who threw temptation In their way

And all the other women who dote on everything men say and do turn on the targeted woman and its usually game over for them

Feeling for Hazel

[elliebrew]

No one?

[Speedster]

No one?


I agree

[GiRTh]

This is not the dark ages and 50 shades of grey is more popular with women than men.

[blue]

well i hope you come across a woman like hazel in your life, who steals your bf then you can sit there and defend women like hazel





.

[reece(:]

She is getting a lot of OTT unnecessary hate.

[optimisticcynic]

Loads of people here projecting their own issues on Daley. He is a cheat. I despise him for this. However, I do not see him as sexist or an abuser. Hazel has repeatedly goaded him for being soft, as was even shown in today's show as she repeatedly jibed "you're a man" "you're the man", tryng to get him to take on the well-critiqued caveman persona, whilst he repeatedly stated "this is 2013. there is such a thing as sexual equality." She built up a sexually-fraught relationship where he believed dumbass male chauvinism was sexy and arousing, and then utterly sha*ted himself with her dancing about on his ashes, counting her dollars all the way to the first glossy mag/breakfast show. I am not advocating violence, but I am acknowledging that she goaded aggressive sexual behaviour then pretended to recoil in horror. "Go for it."

[alex_front2]

The problem is women think sexually they should be able to act like some sexually charged men. Problem is women = sl@gs, men = studs axiom will ALWAYS exist, no matter how much feminism makes strides in other areas like equal pay. Feminists can take to streets on as many well intended ill conceived "sl@t walks", loads of people will dismiss any type women who likes being sexual (outside marriage) as a slut.

[swinearefine]

This is the part of Big Brother I hate, the inevitable misogyny from the filth that watch it, both men and women. Not that it's just Big Brother viewers, it's people in general.

[Kizzy]

This is the part of Big Brother I hate, the inevitable misogyny from the filth that watch it, both men and women. Not that it's just Big Brother viewers, it's people in general.

Agreed.. I am in no way a fan of hazel but she in no way instigated or deserved that treatment.

[kefln]

well i hope you come across a woman like hazel in your life, who steals your bf then you can sit there and defend women like hazel
.

Yes, if the man in a relationship strays, blame the object of his wandering eye, not the man. Because, if I read your post correctly, a single girl is worse than a cheating man.

[kefln]

Loads of people here projecting their own issues on Daley. He is a cheat. I despise him for this. However, I do not see him as sexist or an abuser. Hazel has repeatedly goaded him for being soft, as was even shown in today's show as she repeatedly jibed "you're a man" "you're the man", tryng to get him to take on the well-critiqued caveman persona, whilst he repeatedly stated "this is 2013. there is such a thing as sexual equality." She built up a sexually-fraught relationship where he believed dumbass male chauvinism was sexy and arousing, and then utterly sha*ted himself with her dancing about on his ashes, counting her dollars all the way to the first glossy mag/breakfast show. I am not advocating violence, but I am acknowledging that she goaded aggressive sexual behaviour then pretended to recoil in horror. "Go for it."

Wow...nuff said I think. What a sad world, when grabbing a girl by the throat and threating to headbutt her is considered to be the deserved reaction to a bit of flirtation on the girls part.

I cant process this post at all.

[Kizzy]

Wow...nuff said I think. What a sad world, when grabbing a girl by the throat and threating to headbutt her is considered to be the deserved reaction to a bit of flirtation on the girls part.

I cant process this post at all.

Me either, wow.... It crazy how some justify the most atrocious behaviour, if he had shot her some would say she flung herself in front of the bullet!

[Marsh.]

If I have the logic of a lot on this forum right, Hazel is fully responsible for her own behaviour and actions.... And Daley's as well. What a sad world.

[optimisticcynic]

Wow...nuff said I think. What a sad world, when grabbing a girl by the throat and threating to headbutt her is considered to be the deserved reaction to a bit of flirtation on the girls part.

I cant process this post at all.

He's clearly not really threatening her. Watch the clip again, and you'll see that before all this there is just swearing, an unfortunate consequence of his poor vocabulary. Then, whilst they do their awkward teenage wrestling/are-slapping sex-substitute dance, Daley seeks permission to step up the intensity, asking if he should get "aggressive", whislt clearly stating that he would never hit her. She replies "go for it" and he totally overshoots, misjudging BB, the situation and Hazel. He still thinks they're in the game and his dirty talk is doing the business, which is why he's so surprised when BB intervenes, and even more surprised when Hazel then says she was threatened. An ex once stuck her thumb in my bum thinking I'd love it because her ex did. I ddn't, but I also do not think that she anally raped me.

[Marsh.]

No Hazel believed it was playful role playing until he mentioned "elders" and grabbed her round the throat. He was not playing and she clearly backed down from the giggly flirting.

[GiRTh]

He's clearly not really threatening her. Watch the clip again, and you'll see that before all this there is just swearing, an unfortunate consequence of his poor vocabulary. Then, whilst they do their awkward teenage wrestling/are-slapping sex-substitute dance, Daley seeks permission to step up the intensity, asking if he should get "aggressive", whislt clearly stating that he would never hit her. She replies "go for it" and he totally overshoots, misjudging BB, the situation and Hazel. He still thinks they're in the game and his dirty talk is doing the business, which is why he's so surprised when BB intervenes, and even more surprised when Hazel then says she was threatened. An ex once stuck her thumb in my bum thinking I'd love it because her ex did. I ddn't, but I also do not think that she anally raped me.Tell us more :joker:

[optimisticcynic]

Tell us more :joker:

It was a Wednesday....

[GiRTh]

:joker:It was a Wednesday....

[kefln]

He's clearly not really threatening her. Watch the clip again, and you'll see that before all this there is just swearing, an unfortunate consequence of his poor vocabulary. Then, whilst they do their awkward teenage wrestling/are-slapping sex-substitute dance, Daley seeks permission to step up the intensity, asking if he should get "aggressive", whislt clearly stating that he would never hit her. She replies "go for it" and he totally overshoots, misjudging BB, the situation and Hazel. He still thinks they're in the game and his dirty talk is doing the business, which is why he's so surprised when BB intervenes, and even more surprised when Hazel then says she was threatened. An ex once stuck her thumb in my bum thinking I'd love it because her ex did. I ddn't, but I also do not think that she anally raped me.

Yes, watch that clip again. Watch as that well built man, professional trained boxer, grabs a girl by the throat, tells her that she needs to respect him, then forces her to lie down, before threatening her with a headbutt to the face.

Got to love an argument than tries to pin the violent acts of others, on the victims.

[optimisticcynic]

No Hazel believed it was playful role playing until he mentioned "elders" and grabbed her round the throat. He was not playing and she clearly backed down from the giggly flirting.

How do you know he wasn't playing? He's on national telly! He was playing, and when it suits everyone's perception of him/men in general, he has suddenly turned into a monster and is no longer playing, although his reaction to everthing else afterwards is one of true surprise. He AND Hazel, are clearly aroused by aggression in sex, and chose to reenact on national television acts that are very uncomfortable for others and too close to the bone for TV, but which are not criminal amongst a consenting adult couple. Cue pitchforks and Hazel pretending the aggression was out of nowhere. One phrase rings repeatedly "Go for it". She clearly never encouraged him.:nono:

[Im_Juz_ChiLLin]

Hazel should also have been chucked out i agree both sexes should be treated equally so in that regard chuck hazel out as well !!!

[Kizzy]

How do you know he wasn't playing? He's on national telly! He was playing, and when it suits everyone's perception of him/men in general, he has suddenly turned into a monster and is no longer playing, although his reaction to everthing else afterwards is one of true surprise. He AND Hazel, are clearly aroused by aggression in sex, and chose to reenact on national television acts that are very uncomfortable for others and too close to the bone for TV, but which are not criminal amongst a consenting adult couple. Cue pitchforks and Hazel pretending the aggression was out of nowhere. One phrase rings repeatedly "Go for it". She clearly never encouraged him.:nono:

Oh come on... he threatened her and she initially refused to back down so they must both be masochists? :joker:

[Indy]

This is not the dark ages and 50 shades of grey is more popular with women than men.

Which says more about the literary ignorance of society than anything else. Talk about crap writing.

[optimisticcynic]

Yes, watch that clip again. Watch as that well built man, professional trained boxer, grabs a girl by the throat, tells her that she needs to respect him, then forces her to lie down, before threatening her with a headbutt to the face.

Got to love an argument than tries to pin the violent acts of others, on the victims.

He's always been well-built. Not his fault. He asked if he should get aggressive, explaining he'd never actually hit her and she sad "Go for it". His roleplay may have been edgy, but how do you explain him requesting her permission and her saying "go for it". Those are surely unfamiliar elements in real-life sexual assault.

[Marsh.]

How do you know he wasn't playing? He's on national telly! He was playing, and when it suits everyone's perception of him/men in general, he has suddenly turned into a monster and is no longer playing, although his reaction to everthing else afterwards is one of true surprise. He AND Hazel, are clearly aroused by aggression in sex, and chose to reenact on national television acts that are very uncomfortable for others and too close to the bone for TV, but which are not criminal amongst a consenting adult couple. Cue pitchforks and Hazel pretending the aggression was out of nowhere. One phrase rings repeatedly "Go for it". She clearly never encouraged him.:nono:

Did you watch the live feed. The full event in context?

[Marsh.]

Hazel should also have been chucked out i agree both sexes should be treated equally so in that regard chuck hazel out as well !!!

That wouldn't be equal though because their actions weren't "equal".

[Jords]

Are you male or female?

[Im_Juz_ChiLLin]

That wouldn't be equal though because their actions weren't "equal".

she pulled down his pants, spanked him, instigated him and hit his head with a pillow. It's also called aggressive behavior, If Daley is wrong Hazel is equally wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right just sayin....

[Emmyasdfghjkl]

shes getting the blame for what happened on twitter, but the only people defending that asshole of a man is young teenage girls who for some dumb reason, aka because they think hes hot, think he did nothing wrong, its disturbing.

[Kizzy]

It is... that is the best word to describe the whole sorry event... disturbing.

[kefln]

He's always been well-built. Not his fault. He asked if he should get aggressive, explaining he'd never actually hit her and she sad "Go for it". His roleplay may have been edgy, but how do you explain him requesting her permission and her saying "go for it". Those are surely unfamiliar elements in real-life sexual assault.

"Not his fault" - says it all really.

Do you know what is familiar in most cases of real life sexual assualt? The man saying that she was "asking for it", that she was dressed in a short skirt, that she was flirting with him.

But Im sure that daley, if not surrounded by cameras and security guards, would have stopped right there. Im sure the coking and headbutt montions were just for "fun".

After all, its not his fault....

[optimisticcynic]

Did you watch the live feed. The full event in context?

Yep, he's an idiot, she's trying to snag Femme Fatale BB2013. She's continuously
told him she likes the alpha male role, batted her eyes in the shower wittering on about "no man's ever talked to me like that?", smiled at him invitingly when he asks "what's different between me and all the other men out there", pretty much drawing a huge cross on her FuFu with an arrow labelled "To the neanderthal victor, the spoils." She then starts a playfight, says "Go for it" when he asks if she wants him to get aggressive (if I remember correctly, he reiterates that although he won't be physically violent, it would likely scare her), talks of finishing him off quicker (sexual reference for the prudes out there) in the midst of their roleplay, and then says that she's surprised he was aggressive. He acted like an idiot, ruining his image forever in the hope of impressing/arousng her, but she was not wholly innocent. They may have different sexual limits and she may have actually been scared by his intensity, but he clearly never meant her any harm. Both idiots for trying something like that when they don't really know/trust each other and are being watched by their families/other halves and the rest of the world (that watches C5).

[optimisticcynic]

[QUOTE=kefln;6172934]"Not his fault" - says it all really.

Do you know what is familiar in most cases of real life sexual assualt? The man saying that she was "asking for it", that she was dressed in a short skirt, that she was flirting with him.

But Im sure that daley, if not surrounded by cameras and security guards, would have stopped right there. Im sure the coking and headbutt montions were just for "fun".

After all, its not his fault....[/QUOTE"

Not his fault" referred to his size and build, but you're clearly on a mission here. You've still avoided providing any explanation as to why he sought permission and guaranteed her safety prior to the roleplay, and have launched into unrelated claims re skirt length and the like. If he didn't care and was in some sex/power-fuelled haze, why would he explain what he was going to do and check to see she'd be ok beforehand?

[Marsh.]

she pulled down his pants, spanked him, instigated him and hit his head with a pillow. It's also called aggressive behavior, If Daley is wrong Hazel is equally wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right just sayin....

I never said two wrongs make a right, I said his wrongs went way beyond hers in that one incident.

If you say her hitting a man bigger than her with a pillow is on par with him pinning her to the bed, grabbing her throat saying she should respect him because he'll get scary and "nut" her then that is disturbing.

[Maneki-neko]

she pulled down his pants, spanked him, instigated him and hit his head with a pillow. It's also called aggressive behavior, If Daley is wrong Hazel is equally wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right just sayin....

Lets not try and pretend that putting your hands around somebody's neck and saying "I'm gonna nut you one" is the same as pulling somebody's pants down.

[CaudleHalbard]

Lets not try and pretend that putting your hands around somebody's neck and saying "I'm gonna nut you one" is the same as pulling somebody's pants down.

But it was ok for Hazel to threaten to head butt Daley cos she's a girl...have I got that right? :rolleyes:

[Indy]

But it was ok for Hazel to threaten to head butt Daley cos she's a girl...have I got that right? :rolleyes:

She did no such thing, and it's obvious the moment she sits up and talks back to him again, she has NO idea he's being serious, and it dawns on him that she has no idea he's being serious, which only infuriates him more. He was trying to discipline her and put her in her place, and she thought it was more flirting.

[optimisticcynic]

But it was ok for Hazel to threaten to head butt Daley cos she's a girl...have I got that right? :rolleyes:

All-round double standards. Daley's an idiot. I won't miss him. But I honestly believe he was role-playing and would never have hurt Hazel. He's a control freak but so are many women, who dominate their own relationships. Not all control-freaks are abusive.
To all the histrionic flag wavers,
1. Can you be 100% sure that Daley was not role-playing?
2. How do you explain him calmly and repeatedly asking if he could pretend to be aggresssive whilst reassuring Hazel that he would never hit her, if he was in a rage-filled haze?
3. Were they not both to blame for attempting sexual roleplay, when their pretence that their relationship was platonic completely prevented them from setting ground rules about what they were each comfortable with, especially as they do not properly know each other.

I feel they should both be out or both be warned about their insensitive use of an emotionally charged scenario which likely caused great offence to victims of assault and the general public. Their blatant denial of the fact they were roleplaying worsened things for Daley as he tried to pretend he still wasn't cheating on his girlfriend. "We got kinky, and misinterpreted each others' signals. We've chatted and all is resolved."

[Indy]

All-round double standards. Daley's an idiot. I won't miss him. But I honestly believe he was role-playing and would never have hurt Hazel. He's a control freak but so are many women, who dominate their own relationships. Not all control-freaks are abusive.
To all the histrionic flag wavers,
1. Can you be 100% sure that Daley was not role-playing?
2. How do you explain him calmly and repeatedly asking if he could pretend to be aggresssive whilst reassuring Hazel that he would never hit her, if he was in a rage-filled haze?
3. Were they not both to blame for attempting sexual roleplay, when their pretence that their relationship was platonic completely prevented them from setting ground rules about what they were each comfortable with, especially as they do not properly know each other.

I feel they should both be out or both be warned about their insensitive use of an emotionally charged scenario which likely caused great offence to victims of assault and the general public. Their blatant denial of the fact they were roleplaying worsened things for Daley as he tried to pretend he still wasn't cheating on his girlfriend. "We got kinky, and misinterpreted each others' signals. We've chatted and all is resolved."

1. the half hour of screaming that went on before she went to bed that didn't make it into the highlight show but was on the feed

2. because many abusers go out of their way to excuse their behavior, he was planning to have a go at her when she went in to use the bathroom and left again, long before the fight, and he said thing out loud to give himself an excuse

3. as I've already stated, SHE thought it was a game, and there's a single moment where it becomes clear to him she's not taking him seriously. It's when she sits up and says she could outdo him, she's talking sex, he's talking violence, and she still hasn't figured it out. At that point he becomes more upset, starts with the harsh whisper and forces her down to "put her in her place".

[Kizzy]

He wanted her to do what he wanted plain and simple, he resented charlie chatting to her in the garden as she was in there for his entertainment only....
He may have felt humiliated at her pulling his shorts but I didn't hear that many calling for Denise Welsh removed when she did it?
That to me is irrelevant as he was laughing at that point, it was after he became intimidating.
She went along with the 'tough' act... but it wasn't an act.

[optimisticcynic]

1. the half hour of screaming that went on before she went to bed that didn't make it into the highlight show but was on the feed

2. because many abusers go out of their way to excuse their behavior, he was planning to have a go at her when she went in to use the bathroom and left again, long before the fight, and he said thing out loud to give himself an excuse

3. as I've already stated, SHE thought it was a game, and there's a single moment where it becomes clear to him she's not taking him seriously. It's when she sits up and says she could outdo him, she's talking sex, he's talking violence, and she still hasn't figured it out. At that point he becomes more upset, starts with the harsh whisper and forces her down to "put her in her place".

1. Couples argue. Couples then have make-up sex. Their roleplay was crappy sublimation of this sexual energy.

2. Unlikely. He was trying (in his simplistic code) to set ground rules for stepping up their roleplay, however his attempt at getting away with cheating precluded him saying "will it turn you on if I pretend to get rough with you. I promise I won't actually hurt you" or even "do you want me to get rough, maybe even choke you a bit" was limited to "I'm scary" and she stupidly, probably thinking he'd tickle her or pin her down as he nibbled her neck playfully, said "Go for it". Her expectation was a long way off from his.

3. He's reached level 7 of his sexual aggression repertoire and she tries to sexually intimidate him, gesturing as though to headbutt him as she sits up. She then states she will "finish him off quickly", sexual reward for aggressive behaviour, so he ramps his efforts up to level 10, thinking this is what she desires. Miscommunication, still no intent to actually harm, but a very offended BB, a slightly perturbed Hazel, and a completely unaware Daley.

[Indy]

1. Couples argue. Couples then have make-up sex. Their roleplay was crappy sublimation of this sexual energy.

2. Unlikely. He was trying (in his simplistic code) to set ground rules for stepping up their roleplay, however his attempt at getting away with cheating precluded him saying "will it turn you on if I pretend to get rough with you. I promise I won't actually hurt you" or even "do you want me to get rough, maybe even choke you a bit" was limited to "I'm scary" and she stupidly, probably thinking he'd tickle her or pin her down as he nibbled her neck playfully, said "Go for it". Her expectation was a long way off from his.

3. He's reached level 7 of his sexual aggression repertoire and she tries to sexually intimidate him, gesturing as though to headbutt him as she sits up. She then states she will "finish him off quickly", sexual reward for aggressive behaviour, so he ramps his efforts up to level 10, thinking this is what she desires. Miscommunication, still no intent to actually harm, but a very offended BB, a slightly perturbed Hazel, and a completely unaware Daley.

How did you manage to type all of that with a straight face?

[optimisticcynic]

How did you manage to type all of that with a straight face?

Big Brother is like a giant Rorschach test and forum's like this are simply a place where people post and repost their interpretation of the ink splodges, adamant that their own opinon is right, when in fact we see only what our own experiences and view of the world allow us to see. Just remembered why debate on this site is futile, though noone's fault. Will probably still be back soon enough.