Like for Like Double Standards

[Niamh.]

Ok If we're going to compare a like for like situation, how about Helen & Paul V's Daley and Hazel. In that situation Paul was the Hazel, breaking the man code etc (now admittedly they're relationship seemed more genuine and didn't end violently lol) but anyway, everyone loved them two, no one got Big G on the show to shame Helen or Paul and no one branded Paul a Home wrecker either. Why is it the other man is never branded a home wrecker and never gets the pure hatred the other woman does? Also, if anything Paul was worse because Helen never denied she had a b/f on the outside or told Paul they were on a break or whatever

[Jesus.]

juTeHsKPWhY

[Niamh.]

Indeed Jesus, indeed :idc:

[alex_front2]

Paul was a harmless twonk who didn't mean to homewreck. Hazel practically thrust her vagina on Daley and refused to put it away until he caved in.

[Niamh.]

Paul was a harmless twonk who didn't mean to homewreck. Hazel practically thrust her vagina on Daley and refused to put it away until he caved in.

OMG lol, he didn't mean to be a home wrecker, therefore it's ok? what is this logic lol?

[Speedster]

Ok If we're going to compare a like for like situation, how about Helen & Paul V's Daley and Hazel. In that situation Paul was the Hazel, breaking the man code etc (now admittedly they're relationship seemed more genuine and didn't end violently lol) but anyway, everyone loved them two, no one got Big G on the show to shame Helen or Paul and no one branded Paul a Home wrecker either. Why is it the other man is never branded a home wrecker and never gets the pure hatred the other woman does? Also, if anything Paul was worse because Helen never denied she had a b/f on the outside or told Paul they were on a break or whatever


Because we live in a sexist environment.Men can (by and large) do what they want, women are held to a much much higher and stricter standard.

[Niamh.]

Paul was a harmless twonk who didn't mean to homewreck. Hazel practically thrust her vagina on Daley and refused to put it away until he caved in.

That smacks of the Poor man excuse people made for daley tbh, so it works both ways then, if you're a man with a g/f or if you're the home wreckin' man, it's never your fault?

[Roy Mars III]

Helen and Paul were twats

[Kizzy]

Oop's careful niamh, you don't want to cause pre frontal lobes across the UK to explode as they battle to comprehend this do you?..... :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Helen and Paul were twats

Equal rights Roy, good man :love:

[Speedster]

Paul was a harmless twonk who didn't mean to homewreck. Hazel practically thrust her vagina on Daley and refused to put it away until he caved in.


Funny how he managed to find the strength to over-power, threaten,bully and intimidate her when he felt like it though......

[Jesus.]

I do agree with you though Niamh, the stick Hazel has received has been completely ott. Daley is in the relationship and the responsibility was all his. Hazel has no responsibility to anyone but herself in that instance.

People fancy each others partners all the time. Anyone on here with a long term partner I can practically guarantee someone they work with will fancy them, and more than likely be attracted to someone else as well.

We're humans not robots. The choices we make to block out other advances are ours and ours alone, it is never up to the person who fancies your partner to back off.

[Niamh.]

Oop's careful niamh, you don't want to cause pre frontal lobes across the UK to explode as they battle to comprehend this do you?..... :laugh:

:laugh:

[Josy]

How do you know people never gave Paul lots of **** for his relationship with Helen or branded him a home wrecker (genuinely wondering)?

[Niamh.]

I do agree with you though Niamh, the stick Hazel has received has been completely ott. Daley is in the relationship and the responsibility was all his. Hazel has no responsibility to anyone but herself in that instance.

People fancy each others partners all the time. Anyone on here with a long term partner I can practically guarantee someone they work with will fancy them, and more than likely be attracted to someone else as well.

We're humans not robots. The choices we make to block out other advances are ours and ours alone, it is never up to the person who fancies your partner to back off.

Exactly and if you're in a relationship where you don't think that responsibility lies firmly on your partner then you need to reevaluate your relationship imo

[Niamh.]

How do you know people never gave Paul lots of **** for his relationship with Helen or branded him a home wrecker (genuinely wondering)?

Because I watched the show and read about it?

[alex_front2]

Women and men are different and women have to accept this. If women want to be seen like men then I suggest they book themselves the same surgery as Chastity Bono.

[Kizzy]

I don't remember any negative connotations being attached to Helen and Pauls blossoming relationship in the house either...

[Jesus.]

Women and men are different and women have to accept this. If women want to be seen like men then I suggest they book themselves the same surgery as Chastity Bono.

Ignoring the gender realignment quip, you probably need to expand your point. Are you agreeing that there are double standards, or just saying that men and women deserve to be treated differently?

[Niamh.]

Women and men are different and women have to accept this. If women want to be seen like men then I suggest they book themselves the same surgery as Chastity Bono.

How sexist.

[Kizzy]

Women and men are different and women have to accept this. If women want to be seen like men then I suggest they book themselves the same surgery as Chastity Bono.

really?... I hadn't noticed :laugh:

[Roy Mars III]

I think though one of the reasons Hazel got such a negative reaction was because she was already disliked to begin with even before the Daley stuff. The reason that Helen and Paul did not get the negative reaction was because they were likable and they had fans. Hazel never did. She was already disliked so people just piled this on as another reason to dislike. If the same situation would have happen and Hazel was liked and had fans the reaction would be much different

[Niamh.]

I think though one of the reasons Hazel got such a negative reaction was because she was already disliked to begin with even before the Daley stuff. The reason that Helen and Paul did not get the negative reaction was because they were likable and they had fans. Hazel never did. She was already disliked so people just piled this on as another reason to dislike. If the same situation would have happen and Hazel was liked and had fans the reaction would be much different

That's a fair point, i still think that women get a rougher deal in these situations then the men do though

[Josy]

Because I watched the show and read about it?

Yeah so did I but at that point there wasn't really as much discussions on forums and stuff like this one that's why I was genuinely wondering, maybe he did get grief from people but we were just unaware?

I could be wrong here since it was so long ago but wasn't it Helen that started the whole thing off? I just don't think the two relationships can be compared anyway IMO they fell for each other, it was genuine and they went on to have a healthy relationship outside the house that lasted years, I never saw it the same way with Daley and Hazel, it just all looked like sexual attraction/frustration between those two especially the way she kept trying to arouse him..

[Vicky.]

Helen and Paul is hardly like for like with Daley and Hazel Niamh :laugh:

Yes, Helen and Daley both had partners, but the behaviors of the pairs were miles apart

I definitely dont blame Hazel for it all (infact I blame her for nothing now, as it seems she thought he was single) but to compare the pretty much softcore porn scenes that we saw with H&D to how Helen and Paul behaved is just ridiculous :D

[Niamh.]

Yeah so did I but at that point there wasn't really as much discussions on forums and stuff like this one that's why I was genuinely wondering, maybe he did get grief from people but we were just unaware?

I could be wrong here since it was so long ago but wasn't it Helen that started the whole thing off? I just don't think the two relationships can be compared anyway IMO they fell for each other, it was genuine and they went on to have a healthy relationship outside the house that lasted years, I never saw it the same way with Daley and Hazel, it just all looked like sexual attraction/frustration between those two especially the way she kept trying to arouse him..

No I wasn't joined a forum back then but there was BBLB and BB featured a whole lot more in magazines etc back then so there was plenty of opinions floating about. Everyone loved them two and was hoping they'd get together as far as I can remember it.

I take your point about the type of relationship but I'm just talking more about the Home wrecking label

[Niamh.]

Helen and Paul is hardly like for like with Daley and Hazel Niamh :laugh:

Yes, Helen and Daley both had partners, but the behaviors of the pairs were miles apart

I definitely dont blame Hazel for it all (infact I blame her for nothing now, as it seems she thought he was single) but to compare the pretty much softcore porn scenes that we saw with H&D to how Helen and Paul behaved is just ridiculous :D

I'm not comparing the type of relationship though, I'm comparing the fact that both Paul and Hazel are the single "other man/woman"

[Jesus.]

Cheating is ok, as long as you're both a bit dopey, and like blinking.

[Vicky.]

I'm not comparing the type of relationship though, I'm comparing the fact that both Paul and Hazel are the single "other man/woman"

But thats where the similarities end. I think the reason Hazel and Daley get/got so much hate is because of how they behaved.

I dont think there would have been as much negativity surrounding it had they not been so..OTT in their lust tbh.

[Patrick]

Helen and Paul were twats

[2]

[Kizzy]

Yeah so did I but at that point there wasn't really as much discussions on forums and stuff like this one that's why I was genuinely wondering, maybe he did get grief from people but we were just unaware?

I could be wrong here since it was so long ago but wasn't it Helen that started the whole thing off? I just don't think the two relationships can be compared anyway IMO they fell for each other, it was genuine and they went on to have a healthy relationship outside the house that lasted years, I never saw it the same way with Daley and Hazel, it just all looked like sexual attraction/frustration between those two especially the way she kept trying to arouse him..

Who initiated it and how it played out is beside the point here slightly. The fact is there were two people, one in a relationship and they still went ahead and acted on their impulses.
So in that respect they are identical...
Yes hazel was already unpopular for her perceived role initially but the real injustice was when this unpopularity was highlighted following daleys expulsion and used as an excuse for the assault.

[Vicky.]

BTW, I feel the need to point out that I havent seen any of BB2 and am basing my opinions on what others say. Helen and Paul was a genuine falling for each other thing..not just about lust, and also apparently Paul continually said he wanted nothing to happen until she spoke to her partner?

Thinking aboutit now though, the fact that I havent watched it myself probably means I shouldnt comment on it tbh :joker:

[Josy]

Who initiated it and how it played out is beside the point here slightly. The fact is there were two people, one in a relationship and they still went ahead and acted on their impulses.
So in that respect they are identical...
Yes hazel was already unpopular for her perceived role initially but the real injustice was when this unpopularity was highlighted following daleys expulsion and used as an excuse for the assault.

Not identical in the slightest Kizzy, for a start it wasn't all sexually charged with them, Helen wasn't constantly trying to make Paul stand to attention, I think they genuinely fell in love with each other, read my last post back for the differences I saw in the relationships...

[James]

Helen and Paul got a lot of criticism at the time (online and in the media) - Paul in particular, much more so than Helen. He was portrayed as a 'player'. Helen was seen as quite naive.

The passage of time makes people forget about that.

[Josy]

Having said that though I think it's wrong for to cheat in any way or get with someone that has a partner, so I'm not condoning that in anyway, just don't think these 2 relationships are the best one to compare.

[Kizzy]

Not identical in the slightest Kizzy, for a start it wasn't all sexually charged with them, Helen wasn't constantly trying to make Paul stand to attention, I think they genuinely fell in love with each other, read my last post back for the differences I saw in the relationships...

There was an attraction, that's usually how relationships whether intense or lasting start.
Again the basic concept is the same, a man and woman and a decision to be made, it makes no difference what differences there are in the type of relationship they triggered... the fact is there was one.

[Niamh.]

Helen and Paul got a lot of criticism at the time (online and in the media) - Paul in particular, much more so than Helen. He was portrayed as a 'player'. Helen was seen as quite naive.

The passage of time makes people forget about that.

That's really not how I remembered it at all, although granted I wouldn't have been reading up about it online at all at the stage. I thought it was all very romanticized

[Josy]

There was an attraction, that's usually how relationships whether intense or lasting start.
Again the basic concept is the same, a man and woman and a decision to be made, it makes no difference what differences there are in the type of relationship they triggered... the fact is there was one.

Really?

Anyway again read my last posts.

[Niamh.]

Having said that though I think it's wrong for to cheat in any way or get with someone that has a partner, so I'm not condoning that in anyway, just don't think these 2 relationships are the best one to compare.

The relationships themselves aren't similar for sure, it's just the only other BB relationship I could think of where the man was the "other woman" :laugh:

[James]

BTW, I feel the need to point out that I havent seen any of BB2 and am basing my opinions on what others say. Helen and Paul was a genuine falling for each other thing..not just about lust, and also apparently Paul continually said he wanted nothing to happen until she spoke to her partner?

Thinking aboutit now though, the fact that I havent watched it myself probably means I shouldnt comment on it tbh :joker:

Yeah, if anything Paul got more criticism for not going ahead and committing to the relationship in the house.

[Kizzy]

Helen and Paul got a lot of criticism at the time (online and in the media) - Paul in particular, much more so than Helen. He was portrayed as a 'player'. Helen was seen as quite naive.

The passage of time makes people forget about that.

So people made decisions based on how they acted in the house and transferred those to how they responded to the events that followed, and that due to the man being seen a the 'hunter' that seems viable.
So it seems to me that as that was reversed in dazels case, that has coloured the reaction of some?

[Kizzy]

Really?

Anyway again read my last posts.

I have read them josy, I just don't agree.

[GiRTh]

But thats where the similarities end. I think the reason Hazel and Daley get/got so much hate is because of how they behaved.

I dont think there would have been as much negativity surrounding it had they not been so..OTT in their lust tbh.Don't agree with this. Paul and Helen were all over each other and it was clear - Big G permitting - that the relationship was gonna continue outside. Paul was indeed a home wrecker but that's OK apparently cuz they werent hot and heavy on TV. I don't understand how you come to that conclusion.

[GiRTh]

Not identical in the slightest Kizzy, for a start it wasn't all sexually charged with them, Helen wasn't constantly trying to make Paul stand to attention, I think they genuinely fell in love with each other, read my last post back for the differences I saw in the relationships...How do you know Helen didn't make Paul stand to attention? There weren't as many cameras then and the coverage wasn't 24/7 .

I think Naimh makes a great comparison and its interesting that so many want to try and say its different when fundamentally it isn't. There is not much nuance between the two relationships if you look at it from an purely objective point of view.

[Josy]

How do you know Helen didn't make Paul stand to attention? There weren't as many cameras then and the coverage wasn't 24/7 .

I think Naimh makes a great comparison and its interesting that so many want to try and say its different when fundamentally it isn't. There is not much nuance between the two relationships if you look at it from an purely objective point of view.

Having said that though I think it's wrong for to cheat in any way or get with someone that has a partner, so I'm not condoning that in anyway, just don't think these 2 relationships are the best one to compare.

Cant be bothered posting the same things over and over...I have never blamed Hazel for the relationship with Daley so the double standards thing does not apply to me anyway...

And also there was live coverage even though it wasn't 24/7 I'm sure we saw a lot more then than we do now but that could be wrong it was so long ago I can't really remember but from what I watched Helen acted nothing at all like Hazel.

[Josy]

Don't agree with this. Paul and Helen were all over each other and it was clear - Big G permitting - that the relationship was gonna continue outside. Paul was indeed a home wrecker but that's OK apparently cuz they werent hot and heavy on TV. I don't understand how you come to that conclusion.

This is double standards...you are saying here Paul was a home wrecker but no one is allowed to say the same about Hazel.. :joker:

[Raph]

Because Helen was lovely and Welsh so it's okay

[Livia]

Because we live in a sexist environment.Men can (by and large) do what they want, women are held to a much much higher and stricter standard.

Sad but true... although it's only a section of people who have the nineteen-fifties mindset. Hard to believe in 2013. I find it the saddest when it's women justifying the stereotype.

[Roy Mars III]

Helen was stupid and likable = people liked her no matter what

Hazel is unlikable and manipulative = people don't like her

it is as simple as that

[Raph]

Because Helen was lovely and Welsh so it's okay

In all honesty though I didn't watch enough BB2 to really be able to judge but I guess because Helen was much more likeable and naive as a girl than Hazel is, she didn't get as much slack for it? And Same with Paul versus Daley.

[Raph]

Helen was stupid and likable = people liked her no matter what

Hazel is unlikable and manipulative = people don't like her

it is as simple as that

Yeah this is what I gather

[GiRTh]

Cant be bothered posting the same things over and over...I have never blamed Hazel for the relationship with Daley so the double standards thing does not apply to me anyway...

And also there was live coverage even though it wasn't 24/7 I'm sure we saw a lot more then than we do now but that could be wrong it was so long ago I can't really remember but from what I watched Helen acted nothing at all like Hazel.So you think Hazel acted bad? Even though she's single and thought Daley was too but Helen didnt act badly even though she was definitely in a committed long term relationship? OK :thumbs:

[Livia]

Helen was stupid and likable = people liked her no matter what

Hazel is unlikable and manipulative = people don't like her

it is as simple as that

I like Hazel.

I didn't like Helen because I'm not drawn to stupid people.

Nothing's ever that simple.

[Niamh.]

I like Hazel but I loved Helen lol

[Josy]

So you think Hazel acted bad? Even though she's single and thought Daley was too but Helen didnt act badly even though she was definitely in a committed long term relationship? OK :thumbs:

Lol nice try twisting what I'm saying Girth, I said Helen acted nothing like Hazel...

Anyway how about replying to my post after that that quoted the double standards from you?

[Roy Mars III]

Personally I find Helen so unlikeable that i could see no other reason to like her, but that is probably just me.

Hazel has arguably the smallest fanbase of any of the HMs, there are only a few to argue from a Pro Hazel side so even in a situation were she should get support (the Daley thing) she didn't

[GiRTh]

This is double standards...you are saying here Paul was a home wrecker but no one is allowed to say the same about Hazel.. :joker:Do you mean this?

Well Paul was a homewrecker but by all accounts even Daley didn't know he was in a relationship so Hazel had no home to wreck.

[Josy]

Do you mean this?

Well Paul was a homewrecker but by all accounts even Daley didn't know he was in a relationship so Hazel had no home to wreck.

:joker:

Then why was Hazel saying in the tree house she didn't want to be seen as the girl that went for the guy with the GF? she new fine well Daley had a GF as did he.

[Kizzy]

This is double standards...you are saying here Paul was a home wrecker but no one is allowed to say the same about Hazel.. :joker:

He was yes, it's not double standards to say that as it's basically what niamh was implying in her OP.
Whatever the structure of the relationship was, or your personal opinion of the people involved before during or after the event the bottom line is if you strip it bare it's the same situation just with the roles reversed.

[Niamh.]

He was yes, it's not double standards to say that and it's basically what niamh was implying in her OP.
Whatever the structure of the relationship was, or your personal opinion of the people involved before during or after the event the bottom line is if you strip it bare it's the same situation just with the roles reversed.

Yeah, granted the Paul/Helen relationship was different in a lot of ways of course but my point was that both were relationships that happened in the house where one of them was already in a relationship on the outside

[GiRTh]

:joker:

Then why was Hazel saying in the tree house she didn't want to be seen as the girl that went for the guy with the GF? she new fine well Daley had a GF as did he.Because she's a smart girl and she knows how things look and how they've gonna be spun. Daley was telling all the HM's that he was not sure about his relationship so how was Hazel to be sure?

I agree with Kizzy. This is more or less the same situation as Paul and Helen. We can add alot of he said this and she said that but its the same at the end of the day. Also don't lose sight of the fact that Helen left her BF for Paul. So Paul and Helen was actually worse IMO.

[Josy]

He was yes, it's not double standards to say that as it's basically what niamh was implying in her OP.
Whatever the structure of the relationship was, or your personal opinion of the people involved before during or after the event the bottom line is if you strip it bare it's the same situation just with the roles reversed.

Yes Kizzy it is double standards to call Paul a home wrecker but get annoyed when people say the same about Hazel.

[GiRTh]

Yes Kizzy it is double standards to call Paul a home wrecker but get annoyed when people say the same about Hazel.There was no home to wreck. If there was then why was Daley so willing to tell another woman how he wanted her to dress and act?

[Josy]

Because she's a smart girl and she knows how things look and how they've gonna be spun. Daley was telling all the HM's that he was not sure about his relationship so how was Hazel to be sure?



Well if she wasn't sure why go there? but Daley had said in the beginning he was in a relationship that should have told her enough IMO.

This has gone way off course from the thread topic now...

[Josy]

There was no home to wreck. If there was then why was Daley so willing to tell another woman how he wanted her to dress and act?

There was though Girth, we know that, Daley knows that, Katie knows that.

[Kizzy]

Yes Kizzy it is double standards to call Paul a home wrecker but get annoyed when people say the same about Hazel.

Who's getting annoyed?
I don't disagree with the fact that both paul and hazel could be given that label, it's the aftermath of pantsgate2 I object to.

[GiRTh]

Well if she wasn't sure why go there? but Daley had said in the beginning he was in a relationship that should have told her enough IMO.

This has gone way off course from the thread topic now...She has admitted she went there out of boredom. No doubt this is one of those 'evil' traits that people talk about in her.

I don't understand the Daley told her that you keep going on about. Daley also told her how he'd like her to act and dress and to wear less make up. does that sound like a man who's in a committed relationship?

[Josy]

Who's getting annoyed?
I don't disagree with the fact that both paul and hazel could be given that label, it's the aftermath of pantsgate2 I object to.

A few people are in other threads.

[GiRTh]

There was though Girth, we know that, Daley knows that, Katie knows that.Really? Something tells me Daley forgot every now and again. Probably coincides with alot of blood rushing to a certain part of his body. :joker: If anything he is more to blame. He was the one in a relationship, he was he one who became possessive and controlling and he was the one who ultimately attacked her.

[Josy]

Really? Something tells me Daley forgot every now and again. Probably coincides with alot of blood rushing to a certain part of his body. :joker: If anything he is more to blame. He was the one in a relationship, he was he one who became possessive and controlling and he was the one who ultimately attacked her.

No one in this discussion is denying that or ever has.

[Kizzy]

A few people are in other threads.


They are, but it's interesting to see the reactions to a similar situation isn't it?

[GiRTh]

A few people are in other threads. Do you mean me. Absolutely not. This is fun. :joker:

[Kizzy]

Really? Something tells me Daley forgot every now and again. Probably coincides with alot of blood rushing to a certain part of his body. :joker: If anything he is more to blame. He was the one in a relationship, he was he one who became possessive and controlling and he was the one who ultimately attacked her.

Haha, maybe paul only held back as he was worried about bumping into 'big G'?.... :joker:

[GiRTh]

Lol nice try twisting what I'm saying Girth, I said Helen acted nothing like Hazel...

Anyway how about replying to my post after that that quoted the double standards from you?When you talk of how Helen and Hazel acted then what are you referring to if you're not saying Hazel acted badly?

[James]

That's really not how I remembered it at all, although granted I wouldn't have been reading up about it online at all at the stage. I thought it was all very romanticized

It was romanticised by some people, yes, eg. Davina. But a lot of the online stuff was pretty poisonous at the time. And the media covered Big Brother in a much bigger way back then.

Paul got most of the criticism as I said, but for slightly different reasons than Hazel in the Hazel - Daley situation. Basically, people said - wrongly - he wouldn't be interested in Helen outside of the house.

The likability factor, and how popular she was as a housemate, makes a big difference with Helen when comparing to the situation now. But even then I remember Simon Pegg on BBLB criticising Helen for going after Paul in the house when she had a boyfriend on the outside. So the same issues were spoken about at the time.

[rionablue]

I do agree with you though Niamh, the stick Hazel has received has been completely ott. Daley is in the relationship and the responsibility was all his. Hazel has no responsibility to anyone but herself in that instance.

People fancy each others partners all the time. Anyone on here with a long term partner I can practically guarantee someone they work with will fancy them, and more than likely be attracted to someone else as well.

We're humans not robots. The choices we make to block out other advances are ours and ours alone, it is never up to the person who fancies your partner to back off.

Very good post Jesus x

[Niamh.]

It was romanticised by some people, yes, eg. Davina. But a lot of the online stuff was pretty poisonous at the time. And the media covered Big Brother in a much bigger way back then.

Paul got most of the criticism as I said, but for slightly different reasons than Hazel in the Hazel - Daley situation. Basically, people said - wrongly - he wouldn't be interested in Helen outside of the house.

The likability factor, and how popular she was as a housemate, makes a big difference with Helen when comparing to the situation now. But even then I remember Simon Pegg on BBLB criticising Helen for going after Paul in the house when she had a boyfriend on the outside. So the same issues were spoken about at the time.

hhhmmm maybe by memory is a little hazy then, still though I guess the one thing that is correct is that people weren't annoyed with Paul for being a Home Wrecker like Hazel or more specifically the girl always does in these situations

This reminiscing about BB2 really makes me want to rewatch it, it was such a good Series

[James]

This reminiscing about BB2 really makes me want to rewatch it, it was such a good Series

Yeah, that series is the reason I joined these forums in the first place.