israelis still building on palestine

[lippyzippy]

what a pain in the anus that regime has become

peace? theyre not remotely interested.....its all about stealing land and cashing in

pathetic

[arista]

what a pain in the anus that regime has become

peace? theyre not remotely interested.....its all about stealing land and cashing in

pathetic

Yes it be going on for so long

[Livia]

what a pain in the anus that regime has become

peace? theyre not remotely interested.....its all about stealing land and cashing in

pathetic

Are you looking for a debate or just making a statement?

[lippyzippy]

the timing as always was also a disgrace

[Livia]

the timing as always was also a disgrace

Again... debate or another statement?

[Nedusa]

the timing as always was also a disgrace

I agree........no debate needed on this subject, usual disgraceful Israeli actions....!!!!

[Livia]

I agree........no debate needed on this subject, usual disgraceful Israeli actions....!!!!

Then why on Earth are the pair on you on a serious debates forum, when you clearly have no intention of hearing anyone else's opinion?

How ridiculous...

[Nedusa]

Then why on Earth are the pair on you on a serious debates forum, when you clearly have no intention of hearing anyone else's opinion?

How ridiculous...

Actually not so ridiculous......

Nobody else's opinion is needed when dealing with this issue. Actions speak much louder than words........World opinion fairly unanimous in their condemnation of Israeli policies and practices......!!!!

Do you really think we need to "debate" this on this tiny little BB forum ???

Pleeeeezeee.....Get real !!!!!!!

[Livia]

Actually not so ridiculous......

Nobody else's opinion is needed when dealing with this issue. Actions speak much louder than words........World opinion fairly unanimous in their condemnation of Israeli policies and practices......!!!!

Do you really think we need to "debate" this on this tiny little BB forum ???

Pleeeeezeee.....Get real !!!!!!!

Hey, who the bloody hell are you talking to? When was the last time you were in Israel? I was there in June... you get real.

Someone started a thread in SERIOUS DEBATES. It's for DEBATES, not for your one-side views.

If no one is going to hold an adult discussion here, I'd be grateful if the Mods could lock this thread. If no discussion is needed, according to Nedusa, then this thread is not needed.

[Nedusa]

Hey, who the bloody hell are you talking to? When was the last time you were in Israel? I was there in June... you get real.

Someone started a thread in SERIOUS DEBATES. It's for DEBATES, not for your one-side views.

If no one is going to hold an adult discussion here, I'd be grateful if the Mods could lock this thread. If no discussion is needed, according to Nedusa, then this thread is not needed.

Why are you getting so angry ? , truth hurts doesn't it !!!!!

[lippyzippy]

Hey, who the bloody hell are you talking to? When was the last time you were in Israel? I was there in June... you get real.

Someone started a thread in SERIOUS DEBATES. It's for DEBATES, not for your one-side views.

If no one is going to hold an adult discussion here, I'd be grateful if the Mods could lock this thread. If no discussion is needed, according to Nedusa, then this thread is not needed.

ladies please is this language necessary?

there is no need to lock this thread either

[lippyzippy]

Actually not so ridiculous......

Nobody else's opinion is needed when dealing with this issue. Actions speak much louder than words........World opinion fairly unanimous in their condemnation of Israeli policies and practices......!!!!

Do you really think we need to "debate" this on this tiny little BB forum ???

Pleeeeezeee.....Get real !!!!!!!

The worse part is how self defeating this Israeli government is....recall how when the united nations voted for Palestine to become a nation, by over 200 votes against 9...the next day the Israelis built masses of new homes on Palestine

disgusting

Im sick to death of it...its destabilising the entire region as well as destroying Palestine and the 2 state solution

it is also going against what many Israelis and jewish people like me want....the truth is many jewish people are liberals, it seems Israel project has been hijacked by the mega rich and greedy power brokers....its also giving moderate Israelis and perhaps even moderate liberal jewish people like me a bad name.
im sick of it and I hope Obama and Kerry, both of whom are good men at heart, can somehow make progress on this tragic bloodbath

[Nedusa]

The worse part is how self defeating this Israeli government is....recall how when the united nations voted for Palestine to become a nation, by over 200 votes against 9...the next day the Israelis built masses of new homes on Palestine

disgusting

Im sick to death of it...its destabilising the entire region as well as destroying Palestine and the 2 state solution

it is also going against what many Israelis and jewish people like me want....the truth is many jewish people are liberals, it seems Israel project has been hijacked by the mega rich and greedy power brokers....its also giving moderate Israelis and perhaps even moderate liberal jewish people like me a bad name.
im sick of it and I hope Obama and Kerry, both of whom are good men at heart, can somehow make progress on this tragic bloodbath


I couldn't agree more......it saddens my soul to see Israel flouting International law time and time again. to see them trampling over the Palestinians, attacking and killing them in the Gaza using Phosphorus weapons.

And when they finally agree to peace talks what do they do....start building even more Israeli homes on Palestinian land....disgusting !!!!

But what is even more disgusting than all of that is the way the US lets it keep happening, backs Israel every step of the way, never condemning any of Israel's murderous actions and actually vetoing resolutions made against Israel in the UN.

Truly unforgiveable probably the reason why the Arab nations hate the US so much probably the reason for 911 and the majority of major Terrorist attacks.

There will never be peace in the Middle East until this regime is brought to task and made answer for it's many crimes and atrocities...!!!

[Livia]

The worse part is how self defeating this Israeli government is....recall how when the united nations voted for Palestine to become a nation, by over 200 votes against 9...the next day the Israelis built masses of new homes on Palestine

disgusting

Im sick to death of it...its destabilising the entire region as well as destroying Palestine and the 2 state solution

it is also going against what many Israelis and jewish people like me want....the truth is many jewish people are liberals, it seems Israel project has been hijacked by the mega rich and greedy power brokers....its also giving moderate Israelis and perhaps even moderate liberal jewish people like me a bad name.
im sick of it and I hope Obama and Kerry, both of whom are good men at heart, can somehow make progress on this tragic bloodbath

Oh yeah, the Americans, they're great peace-brokers, aren't they.

There are 22 Arab countries totalling around 800 times the size of Israel, but there is only one Jewish state. Aside from the Jews believing they have a divine right to be in Israel, the fact is that Israel was a state two thousand years before Islam was established and nowhere in the Qu'ran does it mention Jerusalem, Israel or whether Mohammed ever even visited there.

As for the UN, they are an expensive, toothless institution who had nothing to say during the Jordanian occupation when 58 synagogues were destroyed, nor when they desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, nor when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing sacred sites and places of worship.

I'm not going to pretend that I think Israel always acts appropriately but when Israel is insulted and attacked by people who really don't know the whole story, just bits a pieces they've picked up, it's annoying. They try to paint Palestine as some kind of opressed, noble minority. In actual fact Israel is targeted by Palestinian rockets on a daily basis. If Israeli anti-missile technology wasn’t so good the news might read very differently. Even school teachers are armed in Israel, to protect the children they teach from terrorist attack. There's a lot of talking needs to be done so that both sides can live in peace, but unless people see the whole picture, that's never going to happen.

[Livia]

I couldn't agree more......it saddens my soul to see Israel flouting International law time and time again. to see them trampling over the Palestinians, attacking and killing them in the Gaza using Phosphorus weapons.

And when they finally agree to peace talks what do they do....start building even more Israeli homes on Palestinian land....disgusting !!!!

But what is even more disgusting than all of that is the way the US lets it keep happening, backs Israel every step of the way, never condemning any of Israel's murderous actions and actually vetoing resolutions made against Israel in the UN.

Truly unforgiveable probably the reason why the Arab nations hate the US so much probably the reason for 911 and the majority of major Terrorist attacks.

There will never be peace in the Middle East until this regime is brought to task and made answer for it's many crimes and atrocities...!!!

The "US lets it keep happening"? The USA are not in charge of the world, you know.

What a ridiculous thing to say... 9/11 and other terrorist atrocities are the the fault of Israel. I find it worrying that you only use the word "attrocities" when you're talking about Israel, and you justify Islamic fundamentalists' attrocities by saying it's Israel's fault.

[lippyzippy]

Oh yeah, the Americans, they're great peace-brokers, aren't they.

There are 22 Arab countries totalling around 800 times the size of Israel, but there is only one Jewish state. Aside from the Jews believing they have a divine right to be in Israel, the fact is that Israel was a state two thousand years before Islam was established and nowhere in the Qu'ran does it mention Jerusalem, Israel or whether Mohammed ever even visited there.

As for the UN, they are an expensive, toothless institution who had nothing to say during the Jordanian occupation when 58 synagogues were destroyed, nor when they desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, nor when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing sacred sites and places of worship.

I'm not going to pretend that I think Israel always acts appropriately but when Israel is insulted and attacked by people who really don't know the whole story, just bits a pieces they've picked up, it's annoying. They try to paint Palestine as some kind of opressed, noble minority. In actual fact Israel is targeted by Palestinian rockets on a daily basis. If Israeli anti-missile technology wasn’t so good the news might read very differently. Even school teachers are armed in Israel, to protect the children they teach from terrorist attack. There's a lot of talking needs to be done so that both sides can live in peace, but unless people see the whole picture, that's never going to happen.

theyre current actions and their regime is mindless , the whole eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. its a mindless pathetic vicious back and forth game of revenge. the timing of these endless building works is based purely on spite and revenge. hence it continues the whole sorry cycle of spite and revenge.
their actions after the UN vote was just self defeating.
as for the state itself Im all for a 2 state solution. I do not believe the Israelis or jews had any right whatsoever to set up this country in the 1940s though. it was always doomed to total failure. did they have the deeds or what? the whole thing is preposterous. but now they Israel exists, the Israelis still fail completely to understand the word compromise. its a disaster and always will be unless they stop the building end compromise and negotiate. anyone who fails to do that hates his own people.

[Livia]

theyre current actions and their regime is mindless , the whole eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. its a mindless pathetic vicious back and forth game of revenge. the timing of these endless building works is based purely on spite and revenge. hence it continues the whole sorry cycle of spite and revenge.
their actions after the UN vote was just self defeating.
as for the state itself Im all for a 2 state solution. I do not believe the Israelis or jews had any right whatsoever to set up this country in the 1940s though. it was always doomed to total failure. did they have the deeds or what? the whole thing is preposterous. but now they Israel exists, the Israelis still fail completely to understand the word compromise. its a disaster and always will be unless they stop the building end compromise and negotiate. anyone who fails to do that hates his own people.



Israelis and Jews didn't set up Israel in the 1940s, Britain and America did. No the Jews didn't have the deeds. At the time the area was called "British Mandate of Palestine", not a country but a British Colony. Where should the Jews have gone after the Holocaust if not back to their spiritual home? Nearly 50% of the world's Jews live in Israel, that tiny piece of land that is so sacred to Jews and really not that much to Islam.

I wouldn't mind if we disagreed and debated the subject, but when you said you were Jewish earlier I assumed you'd know a bit more about it. Maybe I should have just left it at you making a statement.

[lippyzippy]

Israelis and Jews didn't set up Israel in the 1940s, Britain and America did. No the Jews didn't have the deeds. At the time the area was called "British Mandate of Palestine", not a country but a British Colony. Where should the Jews have gone after the Holocaust if not back to their spiritual home? Nearly 50% of the world's Jews live in Israel, that tiny piece of land that is so sacred to Jews and really not that much to Islam.

I wouldn't mind if we disagreed and debated the subject, but when you said you were Jewish earlier I assumed you'd know a bit more about it. Maybe I should have just left it at you making a statement.

I didn't say we set it up, everyone knows the brits set it up, we had no right to reclaim land from several centuries ago and it was always a rigged game. the whole sorry disaster was always going to end up this way, always it was an insane idea. I hate the fact my people are tarred with the brush of these neo cons and radical Zionist zealots. their agenda has been exposed and the liberal masses are sick to death of their warmongering greed. the only question is what is to be done about it , as all we have left is damage limitation

[DanaC]

The Palestinians aren't noble ... But they are oppressed. The rockets they send over are a drop in the ocean compared to the wholesale slaughter meted out to them by Israel.

What do people think the Palestinians should do? Cease fighting and just accept the annihilation of them as a people/state?

When the Palestinians fight they are stomped in response by those who have absolute power over them. When they don't fight Israel steps up the building programme

Livia, you say you've been to Israel but have you also been to Palestine?

[Nedusa]

Israelis and Jews didn't set up Israel in the 1940s, Britain and America did. No the Jews didn't have the deeds. At the time the area was called "British Mandate of Palestine", not a country but a British Colony. Where should the Jews have gone after the Holocaust if not back to their spiritual home? Nearly 50% of the world's Jews live in Israel, that tiny piece of land that is so sacred to Jews and really not that much to Islam.

I wouldn't mind if we disagreed and debated the subject, but when you said you were Jewish earlier I assumed you'd know a bit more about it. Maybe I should have just left it at you making a statement.

You really are prepared to try and argue this aren't you....????

First of all being patronising to the other Poster assuming he doesn't know how Israel was established is just rude as he has stated he is Jewish and probably knows more about the subject than you.

Secondly the Jews could have gone to a number of places they did not have to go into Palestine and trample all over the people who lived there steal their land and create probably the biggest refugee group the world has ever known.

And furthermore that tiny piece of land you refer to is sacred not only to Jews but also Muslims and Christians so that's no argument.

In fact you have no argument, your last post contained nothing meaningful, all you can do is repeat the same tired brainwashed mantra that passes for reasons for Israel continuing this brutal occupation.

As I said earlier this is not a subject that we can easily debate as it is very emotive and I for one get very upset on this topic.So this will be my last word on this particular thread.

[Livia]

You really are prepared to try and argue this aren't you....????

First of all being patronising to the other Poster assuming he doesn't know how Israel was established is just rude as he has stated he is Jewish and probably knows more about the subject than you.
Secondly the Jews could have gone to a number of places they did not have to go into Palestine and trample all over the people who lived there steal their land and create probably the biggest refugee group the world has ever known.

And furthermore that tiny piece of land you refer to is sacred not only to Jews but also Muslims and Christians so that's no argument.

In fact you have no argument, your last post contained nothing meaningful, all you can do is repeat the same tired brainwashed mantra that passes for reasons for Israel continuing this brutal occupation.

As I said earlier this is not a subject that we can easily debate as it is very emotive and I for one get very upset on this topic.So this will be my last word on this particular thread.


Israel and Jersusalem appear in the bible over 700 times, but nowhere in the Qu'ran. Mohammed never visited Jerusalem, Jews pray with the backs to it, facing Mecca. While I agree that Jerusalem is sacred to Christians it's claim to Jerusalem is tenuous, even though Islamic places of worship in Jerusalem are maintained by the Israelis, whereas when the Muslims occupied it, like I said, Jewish sacred places were vandalised and dismantled.

You see the bits in your post I've highlighted? They're the reason I'm putting you on ignore. Because my opinions don't agree with yours you get personal. lippyzippy obviously doesn't know too much from what he (or she) has posted. I am not brainwashed, and my arguments are just as valid as yours. do me the courtesy of also ignoring me in future.

[Livia]

The Palestinians aren't noble ... But they are oppressed. The rockets they send over are a drop in the ocean compared to the wholesale slaughter meted out to them by Israel.

What do people think the Palestinians should do? Cease fighting and just accept the annihilation of them as a people/state?

When the Palestinians fight they are stomped in response by those who have absolute power over them. When they don't fight Israel steps up the building programme

Livia, you say you've been to Israel but have you also been to Palestine?


Yes, I have been to Palestine. Have you?

[Nedusa]

Israel and Jersusalem appear in the bible over 700 times, but nowhere in the Qu'ran. Mohammed never visited Jerusalem, Jews pray with the backs to it, facing Mecca. While I agree that Jerusalem is sacred to Christians it's claim to Jerusalem is tenuous, even though Islamic places of worship in Jerusalem are maintained by the Israelis, whereas when the Muslims occupied it, like I said, Jewish sacred places were vandalised and dismantled.

You see the bits in your post I've highlighted? They're the reason I'm putting you on ignore. Because my opinions don't agree with yours you get personal. lippyzippy obviously doesn't know too much from what he (or she) has posted. I am not brainwashed, and my arguments are just as valid as yours. do me the courtesy of also ignoring me in future.

With your patronising and arrogant manner I'm not surprised if most of this Forum haven't put YOU on ignore already.............!!!!!!

[DanaC]

Yes, I have been to Palestine. Have you?

No. But several very good friends have. Two of my closest friends went there a few months ago as part of an academic exchange ('Bradford2Gaza'). And I have several Palestinian (and Israeli) friends whose personal stories I have listened to with interest.

What comes through very clearly from all their stories is the sense, not just of violence and injustice, but constant, routine and unavoidable humiliation at the hands of Israelis. At check points (which have to be passed through in order to engage in many daily activities), it is commonplace for Palestinians to be humiliated by the guards. It is also commonplace that people are refused passage (which of course makes working outside their specific area very difficult).

Also what comes through very clearly is the fear. It is a terrible thing for the Israelis that they wave their children off to school knowing that they could get hit by a rocket or a suicide bomber. But on a sheer numbers game, what they are looking at is a small possibility. For the Palestinians, the chances of their children being hurt or killed is so much higher. And so is the chance that their family member will simply not come home, picked up and arrested instead on a suspicion, or for throwing stones at the occupying force. And for those arrested, torture is commonplace. The use of back and body breaking 'stress positions' such as 'the banana' leave those arrested crippled with back problems for life.

Setting aside the death toll (which, though it can be counted on both sides, is desperately tilted to the Palestinian side), and the strangulation of their state and economy through walls and blockades, these people are mentally and physically tormented day in and day out.

That anybody can look at that situation and not feel sympathy for the Palestinian's, and anger at the Israeli's part in it baffles me.

We are supposed to look at the Israeli's historic right, yet ignore those Palestinian families who still have the keys to homes lost to Israel decades ago. We are supposed to sympathise (and I do) with those Israelis facing rocket attacks, yet look the other way at the grotesque slaughter meted out to the Palestinians year after year.

[lippyzippy]

setting up Israel in the first place is as dumb as the ancestors of Julius Caesar reclaiming the city of Bath tomorrow. It is a disaster that no one will acknowledge. Until it is acknowledged and until everyone realise the 2 state solution is the only way forward and that the illegal Israeli building must stop, then the mindless stupid murdering and killing will carry on forever. anyone would be a masochist to want to continue as it is. the Palestinians should not have to pay for the evil Germany inflicted upon my people 68 years ago. Its insane. Its pretty much the same mindless logic George w bush used to bomb Iraq. he figured the USA had been attacked by one group of people so he took all his revenge out on a totally different group of people? its just insane.

[arista]

With your patronising and arrogant manner I'm not surprised if most of this Forum haven't put YOU on ignore already.............!!!!!!



No

Everyone can have their own View

[Kizzy]

Oh they do arista don't worry.
It does appear to be a case of ethnic cleansing, I haven't been either but it doesn't mean we can't have a view on the issues faced in other parts of the world.

hTcsyEdFH64