Bradley Manning

[Nemo123]

Hey Guys! Have you heard of this guy, Bradley Manning? He's just 25, a mere kid, and he's a soldier in the US Army who has been in prison for the past three years because he leaked unsavoury information about his Army. He released a video called "collateral murder", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogFZlRiTHuw
which shows 12 or more innocent civilians murdered by the US Army.
He's going to go to jail for the rest of his life for doing this.
Are you outraged? If you are, say so.

[Nemo123]

I doubt young people understand the significance of this. Bradley Manning was obliged to disobey orders which contravened the Geneva Convention, he is sworn by this code of conduct when he enlisted. He was obligated to disobey orders which contravened the Geneva Convention, moreso he was obliged by his oath of allegiance to report contraventions of the Geneva Convention. His misfortune was to confide in someone who could not be trusted, someone who betrayed him, Adrian Lamo.

[Nemo123]

You know, I watched the "Mainstream Media" ignore this story for years now. Almost nothing about it. Yet, it is, or represents, the defining issue of our time. Freedom, freedom of speech. Yet it it it is being almost universally ignored by the corporate and cowed media. I remember the blanket coverage of OJ Simpson, or the English nanny accused of shaking a baby to death. These were parochial matters, interesting but with little or no implications for the world at large. Bradley Manning's treatment and fate has huge implications for the freedom of people here, people who think they have rights and are free. This is an attack on all of our liberties. Wake up to it!

[GypsyGoth]

Didn't he know the punishment for what he was doing beforehand?

[Nemo123]

I'm delighted for a response.
Firstly, he didn't intend to get caught, he had the misfortune to place his trust in someone who wasn't trustworthy, Adrian Lamo.
More than that he should have led his defence with the Nuremburg defence. Plenty of Nazis met the hangman for saying they were only obeying orders, but after three years of incarceration, 11 months in solidarity, and stripped naked, his resolve was broken.
But most significant of all, his oath of alllegience, when he signed up, explicit ordered him to disobey orders which contravened the Geneva Convention. Indeed he was obligated by that oath to report breaches of the Geneva Convention.

[GypsyGoth]

Doesn't loyalty to his country come before the geneva convention?

[Nemo123]

Doesn't loyalty to his country come before the geneva convention?

That's a simple question to answer: NO

[Nemo123]

If Bradley Manning's orders contravene the Geneva Convention they are illegitimate.

[GypsyGoth]

I think he owed his loyalty to his country, that is what taking a job in the army means. You're signing up to defend your country, no matter what.

[GypsyGoth]

If Bradley Manning's orders contravene the Geneva Convention they are illegitimate.

But I don't think countries work that way. They are not run by people who believe in always playing nice with others, simply because the ones against them, they are not bound by these laws like the geneva convention.

[Nemo123]

But I don't think countries work that way. They are not run by people who believe in always playing nice with others, simply because the ones against them, they are not bound by these laws like the geneva convention.

Countries who are signatories to the Geneva Convention are bound by the rules of the Geneva Convention, even if the other side aren't signed up to the Geneva Convention. It is in every soldier's oath to obey the rules off the Geneva Convention. If they don't obey those rules they are guilty of war crimes.

[GypsyGoth]

Countries who are signatories to the Geneva Convention are bound by the rules of the Geneva Convention, even if the other side aren't signed up to the Geneva Convention. It is in every soldier's oath to obey the rules off the Geneva Convention. If they don't obey those rules they are guilty of war crimes.

I think you're allowed to torture savages who are dead set on flying planes into your buildings.

Actually if there was a chance to uncover that plot through torturing someone, I think that torture is justified because of the amount of innocent people you would have saved.

So ok, someone may be guilty of a war crime, but in doing so they are preventing a greater crime to be carried out.

[Shaun]

He's essentially a hero. Sad miscarriage of justice.

[Nemo123]

I think you're allowed to torture savages who are dead set on flying planes into your buildings.

Actually if there was a chance to uncover that plot through torturing someone, I think that torture is justified because of the amount of innocent people you would have saved.

So ok, someone may be guilty of a war crime, but in doing so they are preventing a greater crime to be carried out.

Gypsy, let's not get lost in 9/11 here.
What we saw was an American helicopter crew spooked by a reporter holding a camera and assuming it was a gun.
Let's not forget a heavily armoured Apache helicopter didn't receive one gunshot. No-one fired at it, and if an AR had fired at it it would have either missed or been deflected by the armour. NO, not one shot was fired at it, yet it shot dead 12 or 13 people. Have you seen the collateral murder video, it's on Youtube? People going about their business were shot up, without provocation. It's a war crime, and it's a further crime they were absolved by their superiors.

[GypsyGoth]

He's essentially a hero. Sad miscarriage of justice.

But he's not a hero to the american army. I think they feel betrayed by him.

Gypsy, let's not get lost in 9/11 here.
What we saw was an American helicopter crew spooked by a reporter holding a camera and assuming it was a gun.
Let's not forget a heavily armoured Apache helicopter didn't receive one gunshot. No-one fired at it, and if an AR had fired at it it would have either missed or been deflected by the armour. NO, not one shot was fired at it, yet it shot dead 12 or 13 people. Have you seen the collateral murder video, it's on Youtube? People going about their business were shot up, without provocation. It's a war crime, and it's a further crime they were absolved by their superiors.

But it wasn't as if these soldier decided to kill innocent people, the soldiers made a mistake, it happens a lot in war, people aren't perfect. So I don't see what Bradley Manning was planning on gaining by making this story known, not to mention all the other stuff he released.

This is where I find fault with him, it;s like that Snowden guy, when you join one of these organisations or armies, you own them your loyalty, you're not meant to try and damage that organisation. It's not for the solders to decide what info the public should know, it would be impossible for them to function if they cannot maintain secrecy.

Now I feel that telling secrets has because a type of meme is society, employees see themselves as doing some greater good for humanity by revealing to the world some hidden info from their organisation. But this is not their place to release it, regardless of how they claim their conscience made them do it, or they were doing it for the greater good.

The soldiers who do the things normal people won't, they are doing their job for the greater good, they are putting their lives on the line.

As a member of the public, I don't need to know that solders accidentally kill civilians, I've got a braincell, I know the likes of that happens, just like I don't need to know the details of how spy organisations get their info.

Was Bradley thinking of the women and men he serves with when he released the info?

[Nemo123]

But Gypsy, it's in their oath of allegiance to disobey orders which contravene the Geneva Convention. Soldiers are obligated to disobey such orders and are indeed obliged to report such contraventions. A Bradley armoured vehicle drove over an individual injured or already dead on the ground.. If still alive, this in itself constituted murder. Mistake, pardon my French, MY ARSE! These was all innocent people shot to kingdom come by a trigger happy soldier in a helicopter. Not one, I repeat, NOT ONE shot was fired a them.

[GypsyGoth]

But Gypsy, it's in their oath of allegiance to disobey orders which contravene the Geneva Convention. Soldiers are obligated to disobey such orders and are indeed obliged to report such contraventions. A Bradley armoured vehicle drove over an individual injured or already dead on the ground.. If still alive, this in itself constituted murder. Mistake, pardon my French, MY ARSE! These was all innocent people shot to kingdom come by a trigger happy soldier in a helicopter. Not one, I repeat, NOT ONE shot was fired a them.

Yep but before the likes of this story became public knowledge, who was saying that the american soldiers are perfect? I think most people already knew that horrible things happen in war, regardless of what convention or treaty they go against, this stuff happens.

Has Bradley Manning made the world a safer place for people who work in the american army? Has he even made it safer for americans for that matter?

What has he achieved?

[Nemo123]

In 1972 13 marchers were shot dead in Derry by the British Parachute regiment. Subsequently 4 more died from their injuries. The whiewash aka The Wygery Report absolved all the troops of their crimes. It tooks almost 30 years for David Cameron to apologise unreservedly for the actions of the parachute regiment. I see plenty of parallels with this incident.

[Nemo123]

Yep but before the likes of this story became public knowledge, who was saying that the american soldiers are perfect? I think most people already knew that horrible things happen in war, regardless of what convention or treaty they go against, this stuff happens.

Has Bradley Manning made the world a safer place for people who work in the american army? Has he even made it safer for americans for that matter?

What has he achieved?

What has he achieved? you ask.

Plenty. He has exposed mass murder in the name of the State. He has exposed the hypocrisy of a war that was supposed to bring democracy to Iraq, even tho we know that was only ever an excuse. He has exposed the American govt. for the tyranny it is. Ironic isn't it? Bring democracy to Iraq and instead bring tyranny to America.
We're a long long way from Watergate, when the Press could bring down governments for malfeasance. Now the Press are indistinguishable from the powers that be.

[GypsyGoth]

In 1972 13 marchers were shot dead in Derry by the British Parachute regiment. Subsequently 4 more died from their injuries. The whiewash aka The Wygery Report absolved all the troops of their crimes. It tooks almost 30 years for David Cameron to apologise unreservedly for the actions of the parachute regiment. I see plenty of parallels with this incident.

I'm sure there are loads of parallel instances, but that doesn't make Bradley Manning's actions beneficial to his fellow soldiers. Actually if that situation resolved itself without a Bradley Manning, then maybe he need not have given all that classified info to wikileaks.

I see what Bradley Manning did as wrong, now I know you think he was obeying some greater law, but I think his duty comes before that.

[Nemo123]

I'm sure there are loads of parallel instances, but that doesn't make Bradley Manning's actions beneficial to his fellow soldiers. Actually if that situation resolved itself without a Bradley Manning, then maybe he need not have given all that classified info to wikileaks.

I see what Bradley Manning did as wrong, now I know you think he was obeying some greater law, but I think his duty comes before that.

Do I have to look it up? I see I do. I just hope I can find it. That is what Bradley Manning swore to uphold. It includes, I guarantee you an oath not to contravene the Geneva Convention, an obligation to disobey it in fact is so ordered. Give me a moment, Google will find it.

[Nemo123]

Manning fulfilled his legal duty to report war crimes. He complied with his legal duty to obey lawful orders but also his legal duty to disobey unlawful orders.

Section 499 of the Army Field Manual states, "Every violation of the law of war is a war crime." The law of war is contained in the Geneva Conventions.

Article 85 of the First Protocol to the Geneva Conventions describes making the civilian population or individual civilians the object of attack as a grave breach. The firing on and killing of civilians shown in the "Collateral Murder" video violated this provision of Geneva.

Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions requires that the wounded be collected and cared for. Article 17 of the First Protocol states that the civilian population "shall be permitted, even on their own initiative, to collect and care for the wounded." That article also says, "No one shall be harmed . . . for such humanitarian acts." The firing on rescuers portrayed in the "Collateral Murder" video violates these provisions of Geneva.

[GypsyGoth]

What has he achieved? you ask.

Plenty. He has exposed mass murder in the name of the State. He has exposed the hypocrisy of a war that was supposed to bring democracy to Iraq, even tho we know that was only ever an excuse. He has exposed the American govt. for the tyranny it is. Ironic isn't it? Bring democracy to Iraq and instead bring tyranny to America.
We're a long long way from Watergate, when the Press could bring down governments for malfeasance. Now the Press are indistinguishable from the powers that be.

I disagree, I think american is a wonderful place, and the government does what it has to in order to maintain that wonderful place for as many of it's citizens as possible.

And Bradley Manning hasn't opened anyone's eyes, people who hate america and it's government did so before Bradley Manning's released info, now of course it's handy to list the bad things they've done to justify their hatred of the country.

Bradley Manning took a job in the american military, he should have thought about his fellow soldiers, before giving out this info to the public as it's only used by the people who hate his country and his government.

[GypsyGoth]

Do I have to look it up? I see I do. I just hope I can find it. That is what Bradley Manning swore to uphold. It includes, I guarantee you an oath not to contravene the Geneva Convention, an obligation to disobey it in fact is so ordered. Give me a moment, Google will find it.

Manning fulfilled his legal duty to report war crimes. He complied with his legal duty to obey lawful orders but also his legal duty to disobey unlawful orders.

Section 499 of the Army Field Manual states, "Every violation of the law of war is a war crime." The law of war is contained in the Geneva Conventions.

Article 85 of the First Protocol to the Geneva Conventions describes making the civilian population or individual civilians the object of attack as a grave breach. The firing on and killing of civilians shown in the "Collateral Murder" video violated this provision of Geneva.

Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions requires that the wounded be collected and cared for. Article 17 of the First Protocol states that the civilian population "shall be permitted, even on their own initiative, to collect and care for the wounded." That article also says, "No one shall be harmed . . . for such humanitarian acts." The firing on rescuers portrayed in the "Collateral Murder" video violates these provisions of Geneva.

I'm fine with that, I accept that point, but I don't see what he's achieving by it. Like you think it's his duty to report this incident because it's collateral murder, I don't see it as his place to do so. And I'm puzzled by who he was trying to help by releasing info on such things as this incident

[Nemo123]

I disagree, I think american is a wonderful place, and the government does what it has to in order to maintain that wonderful place for as many of it's citizens as possible.

And Bradley Manning hasn't opened anyone's eyes, people who hate america and it's government did so before Bradley Manning's released info, now of course it's handy to list the bad things they've done to justify their hatred of the country.

Bradley Manning took a job in the american military, he should have thought about his fellow soldiers, before giving out this info to the public as it's only used by the people who hate his country and his government.

You forget, Bradley Manning was a soldier, serving his country. The judge Denise Lind has already adjudicated that what he released didn't aid any enemy, imaginary or real. She has had to invoke some archaic catch-all law dating from 1917 about espionage to charge him. A law which is completely incongruous with the case against him.

If you think people hate America, you're right, they do. America is the ROman Empire of today. It maintains its economic dominancy of the world by military means, just like the old Roman Empire. It is proactively imperialistic. But it will be tolerated and supported for the mos part so long as it is benign. It is watched closely and Manning fulfilled his legal duty to report war crimes. He complied with his legal duty to obey lawful orders but also his legal duty to disobey unlawful orders.

Section 499 of the Army Field Manual states, "Every violation of the law of war is a war crime." The law of war is contained in the Geneva Conventions.

Article 85 of the First Protocol to the Geneva Conventions describes making the civilian population or individual civilians the object of attack as a grave breach. The firing on and killing of civilians shown in the "Collateral Murder" video violated this provision of Geneva.

Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions requires that the wounded be collected and cared for. Article 17 of the First Protocol states that the civilian population "shall be permitted, even on their own initiative, to collect and care for the wounded." That article also says, "No one shall be harmed . . . for such humanitarian acts." The firing on rescuers portrayed in the "Collateral Murder" video violates these provisions of Geneva.

[Nemo123]

Sorry, this thing is malfunctioning. I lost all my post in a stroke. I'll summarise it: America is held up to higher standards than all the barbarians in the world.

[GypsyGoth]

You forget, Bradley Manning was a soldier, serving his country.

Nope, I think he forgot he was serving his country. That's why his country has punished him.

And I've no problem with american being the roman empire of today, I love americans and their movies and tv shows.

Anyhoo, I needs sleep, night Nemo :hug:

[Nemo123]

Nope, I think he forgot he was serving his country. That's why his country has punished him.

And I've no problem with american being the roman empire of today, I love americans and their movies and tv shows.

Anyhoo, I needs sleep, night Nemo :hug:

You're not even American!!

Nice chatting to you.

Goodnight.

[Livia]

I'm delighted for a response.
Firstly, he didn't intend to get caught, he had the misfortune to place his trust in someone who wasn't trustworthy, Adrian Lamo.
More than that he should have led his defence with the Nuremburg defence. Plenty of Nazis met the hangman for saying they were only obeying orders, but after three years of incarceration, 11 months in solidarity, and stripped naked, his resolve was broken.
But most significant of all, his oath of alllegience, when he signed up, explicit ordered him to disobey orders which contravened the Geneva Convention. Indeed he was obligated by that oath to report breaches of the Geneva Convention.

Jails are full of people who didn't intend to get caught.

Nuremburg defence... dear me. This man put the lives of his comrades in jeopardy. Quite right he was jailed.

[Nemo123]

Bradley Manning was awarded the the International Peace Bureau award, set up to honour the Irish statesman Sean McBride:
"He was a winner of the Lenin Peace Prize, and also the Nobel Peace Prize (1974) – awarded for his wide-ranging work, which included roles such as co-founder of Amnesty International, Secretary-General of the International Commission of Jurists, and UN Commissioner for Namibia."
So far 100,000 people have signed a petition that he be honoured with the Nobel Peace Prize, including a recommendation from former winner Mairead Corrigan; "For this year's prize, I have chosen to nominate US Army Pfc Bradley Manning, for I can think of no one more deserving. His incredible disclosure of secret documents to Wikileaks helped end the Iraq War, and may have helped prevent further conflicts elsewhere."

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

omg i always thought your sig said bradley branning

you know the ginge from eastenders

[GypsyGoth]

:laugh2:

[arista]

Bradley has been given a 35 years sentence.


On All News


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/21/bradley-manning-35-years-prison-wikileaks-sentence

[Nemo123]

Bradley has been given a 35 years sentence.


On All News


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/21/bradley-manning-35-years-prison-wikileaks-sentence

I was saddened and annoyed when I heard this. But every cloud has a silver lining, and a model prisoner which no doubt he will be, will be eligible for parole in 7 years.

I ordered my "Free Bradley Manning" t-shirt nearly 3 weeks ago, and still haven't got it!

Apparently he took the sentence with great stoicism, remaining calm while all his friends and lawyers could not contain their emotions.

I hope he's out in 7 years or less. Shame on America for taking the moral low ground!

[Nedusa]

I am utterly appalled at the US decision to jail Bradley Manning for 35 years !!!

This is absolute outrage to jail a man for 35 years because he alerted the American public to the misdeeds of the American Military. The American public need to stand up say NO this man is a hero and needs to be released immediately .

I literally hate the US and everything they stand for when I read stories like these...!!!

FREE BRADLEY MANNING....!!!!!!!

[Nemo123]

Nedusa, do you know what I find so insidious? It's the relative silence of the "mainstream media" on this story. As a media story it has everything; a court case with a huge moral issue, much more important than the OJ Simpson case, or the English nanny who was cleared of murdering her charge. The media don't need to twist the truth in order to corrupt it, they just have to ignore it, which is what they've done here.

[Roy Mars III]

35 years is too light, but glad he got something long

[Nemo123]

35 years is too light, but glad he got something long

Very apt you have Henry Kissinger as your avatar. The fellow responsible for overthrowing and murdering the democratically elected govt of Salvadore Allende in Chile in 1972 and replacing him with the murderous war criminal General Pinochet. And God knows what else!

[DanaC]

Seems an overly harsh sentence to me. But, he may well be out in less, given he has shown remorse. If he continues to do so, there's a good chance he'll make parole in 10-15 years.

Hopefully, though, his sentence will be reduced on appeal.

I do think he was very silly to leak the information the way he did. I doubt he'd have been treated so harshly had he leaked one or two items to, say, an American news organisation.

That said, the lad was clearly in a mess at the time, psychologically. There was a failure on the part of his command structure for even allowing him to have that kind of access in that state.

[Nemo123]

Seems an overly harsh sentence to me. But, he may well be out in less, given he has shown remorse. If he continues to do so, there's a good chance he'll make parole in 10-15 years.

Hopefully, though, his sentence will be reduced on appeal.

I do think he was very silly to leak the information the way he did. I doubt he'd have been treated so harshly had he leaked one or two items to, say, an American news organisation.

I have heard the argument that he should have approached a senator with what he got, but others had tried that before him, and they were given short shrift, demoted and ostracised. As far as I understand, he was betrayed by someone he confided in, not by Wikileaks.

[Roy Mars III]

Very apt you have Henry Kissinger as your avatar. The fellow responsible for overthrowing and murdering the democratically elected govt of Salvadore Allende in Chile in 1972 and replacing him with the murderous war criminal General Pinochet. And God knows what else!

you have been reading too much Christopher Hitchens

[Nemo123]

you have been reading too much Christopher Hitchens

I've seen Hitchens, but I can't decide what he stands for. If memory serves, and it may not, but I think he's done a complete about flip on his principles.

[Roy Mars III]

I've seen Hitchens, but I can't decide what he stands for. If memory serves, and it may not, but I think he's done a complete about flip on his principles.

well he is dead now, but yea

[DanaC]

I have heard the argument that he should have approached a senator with what he got, but others had tried that before him, and they were given short shrift, demoted and ostracised. As far as I understand, he was betrayed by someone he confided in, not by Wikileaks.

Oh I wouldn't necessarily suggest trying to take it to a senator. But leaking to a respected American news organisation would have brought less fire I think. Would have been seen as less of an act of treachery and more of an act of whistleblowing.

Also, the sheer amount of information he leaked was ill advised. he should have cherry picked a few of the worst examples of what he was seeking to make public knowledge.

He absolutely should not have relied on the notion that he would be able to remain anonymous. The person he trusted broke that trust, but he should never have trusted them in the first place.

Then again, he was very young when he did it, and maybe had not had much experience with that kind of thing.

Bringing attention to what was going on was, imo, the right thing to do. But he went about it in a way that opened him up to the worst kinds of charges for a soldier.

[Nemo123]

"But leaking to a respected American news organisation....."
Who are they? The American News media is universally known as the corporate media, bought and paid for. Not to be trusted.

[hijaxers]

Sorry, this thing is malfunctioning. I lost all my post in a stroke. I'll summarise it: America is held up to higher standards than all the barbarians in the world.

Exactly ! Bloody shame they don't keep their own standards - but America never does when it suits em - Our government is as bad - why don't everyone wake up and see whats going on here ?
Its George Orwell and 1984 but the GBP are too thick to see whats happening everywhere ! Its time we stopped being the poodle being led by whatever secret department running things in the US. For sure i think American every day folk are as mis led as the British public regarding this case and many others in the current news !! Expect these stories to get buried also :devil::devil:

[DanaC]

Exactly ! Bloody shame they don't keep their own standards - but America never does when it suits em - Our government is as bad - why don't everyone wake up and see whats going on here ?
Its George Orwell and 1984 but the GBP are too thick to see whats happening everywhere ! Its time we stopped being the poodle being led by whatever secret department running things in the US. For sure i think American every day folk are as mis led as the British public regarding this case and many others in the current news !! Expect these stories to get buried also :devil::devil:

So the GBP are 'too thick' to see what's going on...but you yourself are a member of said GBP, right? And you see what's going on.

[Nemo123]

Exactly ! Bloody shame they don't keep their own standards - but America never does when it suits em - Our government is as bad - why don't everyone wake up and see whats going on here ?
Its George Orwell and 1984 but the GBP are too thick to see whats happening everywhere ! Its time we stopped being the poodle being led by whatever secret department running things in the US. For sure i think American every day folk are as mis led as the British public regarding this case and many others in the current news !! Expect these stories to get buried also :devil::devil:

The thing that is frightening is that all the technology already exists that George Orwell imagined, and more. I'm very suspicious of Google, Facebook, Twitter, and the rest. Millions of traffic cameras, and the ability to store and more importantly collate all your private movement, to allow the authorities to profile you, and maybe a malignant authority.

[Nemo123]

Right now on the BBC News, I'm watching Syrians attacked by chemical weapons. It's highly manipulative and can not of itself be trusted. I've seen jihadists backed by the West behead people with knives, and set people alight.
I CAN'T TRUST ANY OF IT!
They're trading atrocities to win a war of propaganda. I cannot trust anymore the BBC. The BBC lost my trust long ago. An institution I believed in.

[hijaxers]

So the GBP are 'too thick' to see what's going on...but you yourself are a member of said GBP, right? And you see what's going on.

Yes - and... ?

[Nemo123]

I think when Greg Dyke was forced to resign from the BBC over the "sexed-up dossier", it marked the end of when the BBC lost its credibility; when it cowed to the establishment, and did what the govt. told it to do. That's a decade ago. And the BBC has still not recovered.

[DanaC]

Yes - and... ?

Well, if you can see what is going on, why do you assume others can't?

[Nemo123]

Bradley Manning is a selfless human being who dedicated his life to the army of America. He believed he was doing his duty. At some point, in witnessing what he was a party to, he had a crisis of conscience. He released he was a party to murder. Injudicious murder. Not the kind of murder he had signed up for. Plain and simple murder. Afflicted from an army helicopter, on innocent people.
He dared to speak up, and show he world video evidence of the murder he had witnessed. For his crime he has been sentenced to 35 years in prison. For telling the world how 12 or 13 innocent Iraqis were murdered by a trigger-happy Apache gunner murdered innocent Iraqis, he has to go to jail, for 35 years. How wrong, HOW WRONG can the world be let go? We need to reclaim our democracy. We need to take back our freedoms and our wills, and our sense of right and wrong.

[Livia]

Bradley Manning is a selfless human being who dedicated his life to the army of America. He believed he was doing his duty. At some point, in witnessing what he was a party to, he had a crisis of conscience. He released he was a party to murder. Injudicious murder. Not the kind of murder he had signed up for. Plain and simple murder. Afflicted from an army helicopter, on innocent people.
He dared to speak up, and show he world video evidence of the murder he had witnessed. For his crime he has been sentenced to 35 years in prison. For telling the world how 12 or 13 innocent Iraqis were murdered by a trigger-happy Apache gunner murdered innocent Iraqis, he has to go to jail, for 35 years. How wrong, HOW WRONG can the world be let go? We need to reclaim our democracy. We need to take back our freedoms and our wills, and our sense of right and wrong.

He didn't dedicate his whole life to the US Army. He dedicated his life to it (so you say) only up until the point he decided to turn his back on it and make himself judge, jury and executioner. What did you expect the army would do? Pin a medal on him? He was never cut out to be a soldier, I'm surprised they didn't spot that earlier.

You can't train young men to be fighters, send them into a theatre of war and expect them to turn into plaster saints. Any word on what the Apache gunner had seen in his time in Iraq? Any word on the stuff he'd witnessed? I know a few servicemen who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and lived to tell the tale, and who's lives will never be the same. Where's Bradley Manning's bleeding heart for them?

[Nemo123]

He didn't dedicate his whole life to the US Army. He dedicated his life to it (so you say) only up until the point he decided to turn his back on it and make himself judge, jury and executioner. What did you expect the army would do? Pin a medal on him? He was never cut out to be a soldier, I'm surprised they didn't spot that earlier.

You can't train young men to be fighters, send them into a theatre of war and expect them to turn into plaster saints. Any word on what the Apache gunner had seen in his time in Iraq? Any word on the stuff he'd witnessed? I know a few servicemen who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and lived to tell the tale, and who's lives will never be the same. Where's Bradley Manning's bleeding heart for them?

He didn't make himself "judge, jury and executioner". You're mistaking him with the crew of the Apache helicopter. He didn't kill anybody.

[Kizzy]

Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies.

Robert Kennedy

[Livia]

He didn't make himself "judge, jury and executioner". You're mistaking him with the crew of the Apache helicopter. He didn't kill anybody.

You make it sound like that was the only information he released... instead of the 500,000 documents he handed over. How could he have known what was in all of those documents? Do you think he read them all before he handed them on?

You say he didn't kill anybody. I'm not sure anyone could put their hand on their heart and say that, seeing that he was charged with "Aiding the Enemy".

[Nedusa]

He was charged with aiding the enemy ... That's a laugh !! The only enemy he was aiding was the US Army, who clearly are the enemy of justice and morality.

The only real power he had was to inform the US public of the unlawful practices being carried out in their name. I personally do not think he should have been jailed for 35 years for this.

To me this is immoral and unjust and the American people need to stand up and reclaim their constitution. Bradley Manning's intentions were honerable, why else would he do this ??

Was he perhaps a secret Muslim sympathiser, or a Communist ? I don't think he is any of those, just a very brave man who has put his personal safety at risk to try and highlight a serious area of concern within the US Army in the current theatre of war .

[GypsyGoth]

I think Chelsea was extremely reckless, not brave at all. She released documents, which as Livia mentioned, she couldn't have read through. She didn't know would happen, if she was gonna get loads loads of her fellow soldiers killed or if it would lead to american embassies getting attacked.

And I don't think she has to be a member of some enemy group to have done what she did. She was just misguided.

35 years seems a fair amount of time for betraying your country the way she did.

[Nedusa]

I have made a new post to reply to the earlier post(s) above. My post is not in agreement with the sentiments expressed in the posts above, although I do respect the opinions expressed by other members on this forum.

Unfortunately the forum moderators have removed my post so if you wish to read it you will have to contact TiBB and quote thread and post number, they may let you see it or not ...

Good to see they are still working at this late hour...!!!!

[Nemo123]

You make it sound like that was the only information he released... instead of the 500,000 documents he handed over. How could he have known what was in all of those documents? Do you think he read them all before he handed them on?

You say he didn't kill anybody. I'm not sure anyone could put their hand on their heart and say that, seeing that he was charged with "Aiding the Enemy".

I heard he went meticulously through the documents and filtered out anything which might aid the enemy and endanger his comrades in the army. Furthermore he took his concerns up the chain of command to his superiors. In particular the fact that US military intelligence were passing the names of political opponents to the Iraqi authorities who then arrested, imprisoned, tortured and probably killed. These were legitimate political opponents, not terrorists.ssssss