Ron and racism..your opinions..?...

[DanaC]

The Chinese comment was no doubt in bad taste but just to play devils advocate here I could use a little help on something.

I don't find Chinese women sexually attractive (in general). I also am not attracted to black females just mainly Caucasian females.

Does that make me a racist?


Don't see why it would.

[joeysteele]

The Chinese comment was no doubt in bad taste but just to play devils advocate here I could use a little help on something.

I don't find Chinese women sexually attractive (in general). I also am not attracted to black females just mainly Caucasian females.

Does that make me a racist?

No,not at all in my opinion.

[CaudleHalbard]

The Chinese comment was no doubt in bad taste but just to play devils advocate here I could use a little help on something.

I don't find Chinese women sexually attractive (in general). I also am not attracted to black females just mainly Caucasian females.

Does that make me a racist?

Do you go around telling black and oriental women you don't find them attractive, because of their race?

[DanaC]

More to the point, do you go around telling people that you find all Chinese women ugly. Or that they are the ugliest women in the world?


Or do you just...like...not fancy them.

There's a big difference.

[Kyle]

Do you go around telling black and oriental women you don't find them attractive, because of their race?

No, why would I be senseless enough to do that?

I was just Thinking whether because of my attraction to mainly Caucasians then is whatever controls how you find someone attractive a little racist in itself.

I wasn't trying to be clever or anything it was a genuine thing I was thinking about what someone said about deep down we are all a little inherently racist. Not outright get away from me you black so and so but more like how I just said.

[Kyle]

More to the point, do you go around telling people that you find all Chinese women ugly. Or that they are the ugliest women in the world?


Or do you just...like...not fancy them.

There's a big difference.

Again no I have no intention of telling people I don't fancy them, not that they would care anyway. :joker:

I was just asking is it still racism? Something inside me is obviously making me selective in who I find attractive and I'm honest enough to admit there does seem to be a racial correlation in it.

[DanaC]

*smiles*

Well, I don't think that's racism. Desire is desire. You are attracted to what you are attracted to. Some people just aren't attracted to darker skin tones and almond eyes. Some aren't attracted to red hair and freckles. Some men really don't find tall women a turn on, and some women aren't attracted to bald men. C'est la vie. It's all good.

[Ammi]

*smiles*

Well, I don't think that's racism. Desire is desire. You are attracted to what you are attracted to. Some people just aren't attracted to darker skin tones and almond eyes. Some aren't attracted to red hair and freckles. Some men really don't find tall women a turn on, and some women aren't attracted to bald men. C'est la vie. It's all good.


..no, everyone loves Marc, Dana, regardless of their attraction preference, some things are just too strong to be denied..:wink:...

[Kyle]

*smiles*

Well, I don't think that's racism. Desire is desire. You are attracted to what you are attracted to. Some people just aren't attracted to darker skin tones and almond eyes. Some aren't attracted to red hair and freckles. Some men really don't find tall women a turn on, and some women aren't attracted to bald men. C'est la vie. It's all good.

Yes actually that makes sense. When you split it Down again I suppose you can be attracted to certain features and attributes within the Caucasian spectrum. Like you said some people don't like red hair and freckles whereas I think women with red hair and freckles and pale skin are gorgeous. I also like the dark skin, dark hair Roman/Italian look too.

I guess that makes us great in that there really is someone out there for everybody.

[Kizzy]

Once you vocalise that you find a whole countries women ugly I can see why it would be seen as racist at worst and at best hugely rude and offensive.

[Jesus.]

http://www.globalization101.org/uploads/Image/News%20Analyses/chinese-model.jpg

[DanaC]

She is drop dead gorgeous.

[Jesus.]

Aye - not bad for a chink.





































What?

[DanaC]

Hahahahaha.

[DanaC]

Y'know, when my Dad and his family arrived here from India, when he was around 11 years old, he had a slightly Indian look about him, and spoke with an Anglo-Indian accent. For a couple of years he used to get chased round the playground, called pa*i and told he stank like a curry house. Got into a lot of fights over that sort of crap.

He survived. He grew a thick skin. But he also remembered.

Whatever his views on certain races (he was no anti-racist paragon I'm afraid) he never would let me or my brother tell racist jokes (before we'd learned why they were harmful). Someone might not be that bothered. Someone else might be. Both reactions are equally valid. Words can hurt. Why would you want to hurt just for a cheap laugh?

[Daffodil]

http://www.globalization101.org/uploads/Image/News%20Analyses/chinese-model.jpg


That girl has coloured contacts in.

[MachoPoodle]

Well, I don't think that's racism. Desire is desire. You are attracted to what you are attracted to. Some people just aren't attracted to darker skin tones and almond eyes. Some aren't attracted to red hair and freckles. Some men really don't find tall women a turn on, and some women aren't attracted to bald men. C'est la vie. It's all good.

I agree with this, but also want to add that just like not being attracted to someone of a certain race doesn't automatically make one racist, the opposite is also true; just because a person isattracted to someone belonging to another race, doesn't mean they're automatically not racist.

[DanaC]

True dat.

[Jesus.]

I agree with this, but also want to add that just like not being attracted to someone of a certain race doesn't automatically make one racist, the opposite is also true; just because a person isattracted to someone belonging to another race, doesn't mean they're automatically not racist.

That's why I like to keep a back up friend of each race in reserve.

[DanaC]

Thinking about it, there could be a 'racist' element to how we form desire. Inasmuch as, if we are presented with primarily negative stereotypes, or images of otherness of one ethnicity, whilst our growing up primarily consists of exposure o our own ethnicity, those positive and negative associations will naturally affect desire.

But ... you really can go too deep on this stuff. It's interesting at an academic level, but you have to step outside your own experience of life and your own culture to properly examine it, and that's just not how we live and experience life day to day. We are products of our culture and society. And that culture and society are threaded through with racism, sexism and homophobia, sometimes in ways that only become apparent if you step out of your own world and look back into it.

We're also human...with a natural inclination to categorise and a tendency towards reading the world visually.

[Jesus.]

My desire is formed a lot more basely that that.

http://i.imgur.com/zRR5rQb.gif

[Northern Monkey]

Aye - not bad for a chink.





























What?just imagine the meltdown on here if Big Ron said that?lol

[Jimrod]

The problem with all PC behaviour is that it ends up going to far so people get fed up with it and you run the risk of a backlash. Lately there's lots of controversy over stop-and-search targeting certain racial demographics - well if those demographics are statistically more likely to commit crime then that's completely correct sadly.

I had one of these uncomfortable debates the other night after lots of travelling and waiting in security queues - basically ending up with me saying "when was the last time a grey-haired old lady bombed something? Looking back at every Western, post Northern Ireland terrorist attack (or attempted one) the vast vast majority are commuted by brown people with beards called some variation of Mohammad/Ali/Abdul etc". I am not being racist even though this will probably get me a ban and would certainly get me a warning in BB - I was stating FACT. For some reason PC behaviour ignores facts.

That said - Ron did say something that would have been acceptable in the 70's/80's on TV but not now outside of risqué comedy shows. He must know he wouldn't get away with it and he probably regrets it but he was just talking freely and said something not uncommon from people of his generation or indeed many others in the safety of their own homes would say "as a joke".

[MachoPoodle]

The problem with all PC behaviour is that it ends up going to far so people get fed up with it and you run the risk of a backlash.

I disagree. From my experience it's much more common people simply use this as an excuse. What I do get fed up with however, is the underlying problem causing us to constantly having to discuss it.

[Jimrod]

I disagree. From my experience it's much more common people simply use this as an excuse. What I do get fed up with however, is the underlying problem causing us to constantly having to discuss it.

Look at UKIP's increased popularity in recent years, is it because people are genuinely getting more xenophobic or more likely because we are constantly being told we can't say this and that, everything is a race issue yet when the roles are reversed (ie Abu Hamza situation) our government goes soft. If you tell people constantly that they can't say or do something yet allow others to do it then you get resentment and inevitably cause the very behaviour shift you're trying to prevent.

(I vote Conservative btw :D)

[chuff me dizzy]

Look at UKIP's increased popularity in recent years, is it because people are genuinely getting more xenophobic or more likely because we are constantly being told we can't say this and that, everything is a race issue yet when the roles are reversed (ie Abu Hamza situation) our government goes soft. If you tell people constantly that they can't say or do something yet allow others to do it then you get resentment and inevitably cause the very behaviour shift you're trying to prevent.

(I vote Conservative btw :D)

Wait until our Grandchildren are trying to get a home, dentist, job

[DanaC]

Wait until our Grandchildren are trying to get a home, dentist, job

Meaning?

[Kizzy]

Come on dana you're not daft what do you think it means?

[Jesus.]

Meaning?

At a guess, I would say she meant whatever you wanted it to mean.

[lime]

I can not believe people are defending ron by saying that it was totally acceptable in his era.I am a 41yr old Afrikaner who grew up during apartheid in SA where even my time in school was based on teaching me of how superior I was to "Kaffers".I doubt very much if I was to come on here making racist comments it would be acceptable because of the era I grew up in.

[CaudleHalbard]

I can not believe people are defending ron by saying that it was totally acceptable in his era.I am a 41yr old Afrikaner who grew up during apartheid in SA where even my time in school was based on teaching me of how superior I was to "Kaffers".I doubt very much if I was to come on here making racist comments it would be acceptable because of the era I grew up in.

An excellent point, if I may say so. :)

[DanaC]

Come on dana you're not daft what do you think it means?

I think I know what it means. I hope I'm wrong though.

[Ellen]

I can not believe people are defending ron by saying that it was totally acceptable in his era.I am a 41yr old Afrikaner who grew up during apartheid in SA where even my time in school was based on teaching me of how superior I was to "Kaffers".I doubt very much if I was to come on here making racist comments it would be acceptable because of the era I grew up in.

It was not acceptable 10 years ago that is why he was sacked. People are defending him because it was 10 years ago & some people did say things like that then.

[MachoPoodle]

Look at UKIP's increased popularity in recent years, is it because people are genuinely getting more xenophobic or more likely because we are constantly being told we can't say this and that, everything is a race issue yet when the roles are reversed (ie Abu Hamza situation) our government goes soft. If you tell people constantly that they can't say or do something yet allow others to do it then you get resentment and inevitably cause the very behaviour shift you're trying to prevent.

(I vote Conservative btw :D)

Exactly who is really stopping you from saying non-PC things, I'd truly like to know? Not being allowed to say what you want is NOT the same thing as speaking your mind and others in turn saying they don't think what you are saying is correct/ok/whatever.

[Jimrod]

Exactly who is really stopping you from saying non-PC things, I'd truly like to know? Not being allowed to say what you want is NOT the same thing as speaking your mind and others in turn saying they don't think what you are saying is correct/ok/whatever.

Ok, example - Those (Muslim) protesters saying "Western soldiers burn in hell" and burning poppies on Remembrance Day (£50 fine) and recently some charity runners wearing Mankini's and having stones thrown at them because they were running through a "Muslim area" dressed "inappropriately". No punishment. I didn't realise we had areas outside of religious buildings where you had to behave differently in England for religious reasons. If we reversed the roles to being white people saying and doing the same things to brown people they would have been locked up for Racial Hatred crimes instantly. This is where resentment begins, in trying to be PC our Police/courts start to cause resentment, hence the swing in voters turning to Nationalistic parties.

[DanaC]

Ok, example - Those (Muslim) protesters saying "Western soldiers burn in hell" and burning poppies on Remembrance Day (£50 fine) and recently some charity runners wearing Mankini's and having stones thrown at them because they were running through a "Muslim area" dressed "inappropriately". No punishment. I didn't realise we had areas outside of religious buildings where you had to behave differently in England for religious reasons. If we reversed the roles to being white people saying and doing the same things to brown people they would have been locked up for Racial Hatred crimes instantly. This is where resentment begins, in trying to be PC our Police/courts start to cause resentment, hence the swing in voters turning to Nationalistic parties.

Well...the people burning poppies on Remembrance day were fined. And you seem to be advocating some kind of ban on those muslim protestors saying western soldiers should burn in Hell.

If they were throwing stones at people then they should have been arrested. But then again, I have known some pretty nasty stuff go unchecked by police when the situation was pretty much in reverse of that.

[MachoPoodle]

Ok, example - Those (Muslim) protesters saying "Western soldiers burn in hell" and burning poppies on Remembrance Day (£50 fine) and recently some charity runners wearing Mankini's and having stones thrown at them because they were running through a "Muslim area" dressed "inappropriately". No punishment. I didn't realise we had areas outside of religious buildings where you had to behave differently in England for religious reasons. If we reversed the roles to being white people saying and doing the same things to brown people they would have been locked up for Racial Hatred crimes instantly. This is where resentment begins, in trying to be PC our Police/courts start to cause resentment, hence the swing in voters turning to Nationalistic parties.

If they were fined, they were punished, no? It's not like the same kind of thing doesn't get hurled at muslims, and not always being handled seriously. I definitely get how saying something like that and burning poppies is offensive, but it depends on backstory also. If it's a reaction to something British military have done in their country of origin, I suspect the story have two subjective sides. As for the charity runners, were the stone throwing offenders not punished because no one did anything, or because lack of evidence or what? That part needs some clarification, methinks.

Overall, I blame the fear mongering media more than anything else, for this shift in voting which is a trend pretty much all over Europe right now.

[Kizzy]

I think I know what it means. I hope I'm wrong though.

I took it to mean at present we don't have the infrastructure to support immigration, is there an issue with that?

[Cherry Christmas]

Wait until our Grandchildren are trying to get a home, dentist, job

oh God. Leaves the thread.

[Jesus.]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc2dr4FR5U1r79k9c.gif

[Kizzy]

Is something funny, maybe you'd like to share it with the group?

[DanaC]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc2dr4FR5U1r79k9c.gif

*chuckles*

[Northern Monkey]

If they were fined, they were punished, no? It's not like the same kind of thing doesn't get hurled at muslims, and not always being handled seriously. I definitely get how saying something like that and burning poppies is offensive, but it depends on backstory also. If it's a reaction to something British military have done in their country of origin, I suspect the story have two subjective sides. As for the charity runners, were the stone throwing offenders not punished because no one did anything, or because lack of evidence or what? That part needs some clarification, methinks.

Overall, I blame the fear mongering media more than anything else, for this shift in voting which is a trend pretty much all over Europe right now.

If you went to Pakistan and started burning the Quran in the street,What d'you think would happen to you?I bet it would be more than a £50 fine.When our authorities are soft on this kind of thing,People see the double standards and rebel against it,Hence UKIP doing well for themselves.Jimrod is right.

[Kizzy]

There's a lot of sniggering going on today.

[Roy Mars III]

oh God. Leaves the thread.

in the future, whites won't even be able to get their teeth clean

[Jesus.]

in the future, whites won't even be able to get their teeth clean

We'll have to "black up" to get a Dr's appointment.

[Roy Mars III]

I was going to make a joke about wearing black face but then I remembered my username is not Jesus so I would probably get a infraction for it

[Cherry Christmas]

in the future, whites won't even be able to get their teeth clean

Looks like a future of white denture wearers is on the cards.

[Jesus.]

I was going to make a joke about wearing black face but then I remembered my username is not Jesus so I would probably get a infraction for it

That just places you in the 99%. Nothing wrong with being ordinary, Roy.

[DanaC]

Looks like a future of white denture wearers is on the cards.

i think they only come in white...

[LANDROVER]

With the current birthrates of muslims outnumbering by 3 to 1 the births of others, in 25 years we will be outnumbered in the electorate in this country. Therefore outvoted and radicalised. Lets see who the racists are then.

[Cherry Christmas]

i think they only come in white...

ha ha, I meant white skinned.:tongue:

[DanaC]

... ok.

[MachoPoodle]

If you went to Pakistan and started burning the Quran in the street,What d'you think would happen to you?I bet it would be more than a £50 fine.When our authorities are soft on this kind of thing,People see the double standards and rebel against it,Hence UKIP doing well for themselves.Jimrod is right.

You can argue for harder punishment for something like that w/o going the route of voting for UKIP, can you not?

[DanaC]

ha ha, I meant white skinned.:tongue:

:p I know.

[Jesus.]

With the current birthrates of muslims outnumbering by 3 to 1 the births of others, in 25 years we will be outnumbered in the electorate in this country. Therefore outvoted and radicalised. Lets see who the racists are then.

I plan on dying in 24 years time to specifically avoid this catastrophic conclusion.

[DanaC]

You can argue for harder punishment for something like that w/o going the route of voting for UKIP, can you not?

Not to mention: it's a valid call of double standard if there is evidence that the police and judiciary in this country treat an offence carried by one group more leniently than if it were committed by another group. It's not a double standard when our police treat us (black white or stripey) differently for committing an offence in this country, than the police of an anther country would treat us (black white or stripey) for committing the same offence in that country.

[DanaC]

I plan on dying in 24 years time to specifically avoid this catastrophic conclusion.

Might want to avoid popping up three days later, if things are that bad.

[Jesus.]

Might want to avoid popping up three days later, if things are that bad.

Can you imagine a Jew coming back under Sharia law? Talk about a plot twist. The only man crucified twice in 4 days.

[lime]

Can you imagine a Jew coming back under Sharia law? Talk about a plot twist. The only man crucified twice in 4 days.
:joker::joker:

[Northern Monkey]

You can argue for harder punishment for something like that w/o going the route of voting for UKIP, can you not?

You are right,You can,But people don't.That's why UKIP are getting more votes.

[MachoPoodle]

Not to mention: it's a valid call of double standard if there is evidence that the police and judiciary in this country treat an offence carried by one group more leniently than if it were committed by another group. It's not a double standard when our police treat us (black white or stripey) differently for committing an offence in this country, than the police of an anther country would treat us (black white or stripey) for committing the same offence in that country.

Very true.

[MachoPoodle]

You are right,You can,But people don't.That's why UKIP are getting more votes.

It's still a cop out though, in many cases. But I agree with other parties being bad at handle (and discussing) sensitive issues like immigration, racial/religious tensions etc and thus handing over an unnecessary large portion of votes to UKIP.

[LANDROVER]

Very true.

Not so.Reminds me of a story from the bible.
A zebra died and at the pearly gates was asked by St. Peter if there was anything bothering him before he passed over.
Yes said the zebra I need to know whether I am white with black stripes or am I black with white stripes?
Only god can answer that replied St. Peter, youll have to ask him.
Later when the zebra returned St. Peter asked him if god had answered his question. Well said the zebra im still confused, he just looked at me and said. You are what are.
Then you have your answer said St. Peter, you are white with black stripes.
How do you come to that conclusion asked the zebra.

Well replied St. Peter if you were black with white stripes god would have said, youz iz wat you iz.

[chuff me dizzy]

Not to mention: it's a valid call of double standard if there is evidence that the police and judiciary in this country treat an offence carried by one group more leniently than if it were committed by another group. It's not a double standard when our police treat us (black white or stripey) differently for committing an offence in this country, than the police of an anther country would treat us (black white or stripey) for committing the same offence in that country.

And turn a blind eye when muslims abuse our soldiers after they have got back from saving THIER families

[chuff me dizzy]

You are right,You can,But people don't.That's why UKIP are getting more votes.

Very true

[Kyle]

Something politicians need to learn is that instead of shouting down people as racist or UKIP voters or uneducated xenophobes for having concerns about mass immigration, maybe being more diplomatic and tactile would help. Instead people feel like they are being belittled and not listened to and it fosters resentment. UKIP is not a party I identify with but it gains support from the disgruntled because of it.

[the truth]

this country is brainless.....talk about over reactions to trivial nonsense.
something massive happens and it gets less coverage than a a throwaway lin

[boomoo]

More to the point, do you go around telling people that you find all Chinese women ugly. Or that they are the ugliest women in the world?


Or do you just...like...not fancy them.

There's a big difference.

Perfectly true.
The Politically Correct are trying to rub out something which is stamped in the genes. Originally the ability to choose was a matter of safety.
We suspect what we dont know and this is a natrual instinct.
I do not understand why the PC brigade jump on people who make remarks about a person's origins yet it is ok to make life a misery for anyone with red hair.
You do not have to like anyone. Perhaps we will all have to say, 'I am not attracted to ......

[boomoo]

It was not acceptable 10 years ago that is why he was sacked. People are defending him because it was 10 years ago & some people did say things like that then.

We are not defending him for what he did.
He paid the price for using words that one group of people call themselves and that is deemed ok.
He apologised and never used the words again. Therefore it should be laid to rest.
CBB enjoy noteriety and they did not need to choose the scarf incident on the show. That to me is likely to cause more unrest putting it on air.
It should have been dealt with in a different way.

[Jesus.]

And turn a blind eye when muslims abuse our soldiers after they have got back from saving THIER families

Excellent point, and really well made. When are those Muslims going to learn that we only bomb the ****** out of their homelands, and murder hundreds of thousand of civilians, in order to save them and their families?

[GiRTh]

With the current birthrates of muslims outnumbering by 3 to 1 the births of others, in 25 years we will be outnumbered in the electorate in this country. Therefore outvoted and radicalised. Lets see who the racists are then.

Is this a serious comment?

[Kizzy]

We are not defending him for what he did.
He paid the price for using words that one group of people call themselves and that is deemed ok.
He apologised and never used the words again. Therefore it should be laid to rest.
CBB enjoy noteriety and they did not need to choose the scarf incident on the show. That to me is likely to cause more unrest putting it on air.
It should have been dealt with in a different way.

They didn't need to show carols N word incident either, I'm at a loss to what their logic is for not showing the towel incident but airing the warning.
Is it for figures, is it to prove something?

[In the Drunk Tank]

They didn't need to show carols N word incident either, I'm at a loss to what their logic is for not showing the towel incident but airing the warning.
Is it for figures, is it to prove something?

They did show the towel incident?

[Kizzy]

They did show the towel incident?

Oh, I didn't think they had then is there reason to broadcast something so inciteful, when you consider what happened on other CBB's is it wise?
Not saying it was right or he should not be informed of his rule break but it could spiral and spark unnecessary tension.

[MachoPoodle]

Excellent point, and really well made. When are those Muslims going to learn that we only bomb the ****** out of their homelands, and murder hundreds of thousand of civilians, in order to save them and their families?

:laugh: They are such an ungrateful bunch, aren't they?

[Parmy]

Excellent point, and really well made. When are those Muslims going to learn that we only bomb the ****** out of their homelands, and murder hundreds of thousand of civilians, in order to save them and their families?

hundreds of thousands...:nono:

[Jesus.]

hundreds of thousands...:nono:

Estimates put the civilian death toll in Iraq and Afghanistan alone, at somewhere between 120,000, and 250,000. I'd say hundreds of thousands represents that figure pretty accurately.

How would you like it to have been worded?

[Livia]

Excellent point, and really well made. When are those Muslims going to learn that we only bomb the ****** out of their homelands, and murder hundreds of thousand of civilians, in order to save them and their families?

I know... and there never was a reason for it, them being such a peace-loving people. I mean, it's not like the people we've been at war with carry out any acts of terrorism, or indoctrinate and abuse their own people, or train terrorists from all over the world.

Hundreds of thousands of civilians? A figure plucked out of the air, I think.

And back on topic... Ron is a fool. In one scene there he is telling us that he still works as a football pundit "with the Middle East lads..." and minutes later he's making a completely inappropriate comment regarding headscarves and suicide bombers. I imagine the "Middle East lads" will be examining Ron's contract even as I type. There's no fool like and old fool. He's learned absolutely nothing from his past mistakes and the words continue to pour freely from his lips without the clutch of tact.

[the truth]

I know... and there never was a reason for it, them being such a peace-loving people. I mean, it's not like the people we've been at war with carry out any acts of terrorism, or indoctrinate and abuse their own people, or train terrorists from all over the world.

Hundreds of thousands of civilians? A figure plucked out of the air, I think.

And back on topic... Ron is a fool. In one scene there he is telling us that he still works as a football pundit "with the Middle East lads..." and minutes later he's making a completely inappropriate comment regarding headscarves and suicide bombers. I imagine the "Middle East lads" will be examining Ron's contract even as I type. There's no fool like and old fool. He's learned absolutely nothing from his past mistakes and the words continue to pour freely from his lips without the clutch of tact.

Are you including Israeli abuses here? How is that figure plucked out of the air? those figures have been given for many years? How tactless are your words?

[Jesus.]

I know... and there never was a reason for it, them being such a peace-loving people. I mean, it's not like the people we've been at war with carry out any acts of terrorism, or indoctrinate and abuse their own people, or train terrorists from all over the world.

Hundreds of thousands of civilians? A figure plucked out of the air, I think.

And back on topic... Ron is a fool. In one scene there he is telling us that he still works as a football pundit "with the Middle East lads..." and minutes later he's making a completely inappropriate comment regarding headscarves and suicide bombers. I imagine the "Middle East lads" will be examining Ron's contract even as I type. There's no fool like and old fool. He's learned absolutely nothing from his past mistakes and the words continue to pour freely from his lips without the clutch of tact.

So what was the reason then?

Regardless of how countries treat their own people, it is up to those people to deal with it. Anyone would think the only system of government we know is democracy. The monarchy didn't give up power for the sake of it, they had it taken away from them by the people.

We did that without America swooping in and saving us.

[Livia]

Are you including Israeli abuses here? How is that figure plucked out of the air? those figures have been given for many years? How tactless are your words?

Now why would you think I would be referring to Israel?

[Livia]

So what was the reason then?

Regardless of how countries treat their own people, it is up to those people to deal with it. Anyone would think the only system of government we know is democracy. The monarchy didn't give up power for the sake of it, they had it taken away from them by the people.

We did that without America swooping in and saving us.

This isn't the place for a debate like this. And I'm probably not the right person if you're looking for someone to say how awful the British Army are, and how misunderstood the Taliban are.

[Jesus.]

This isn't the place for a debate like this. And I'm probably not the right person if you're looking for someone to say how awful the British Army are, and how misunderstood the Taliban are.

That's a complete misrepresentation, and you know it.

[Kyle]

So what was the reason then?

Regardless of how countries treat their own people, it is up to those people to deal with it. Anyone would think the only system of government we know is democracy. The monarchy didn't give up power for the sake of it, they had it taken away from them by the people.

We did that without America swooping in and saving us.

I don't agree with that. Egypt isn't doing a very good job of dealing with itself right now and neither is Syria. I didn't agree with the invasion of Afghanistan and i probably never will but sometimes outside intervention is necessary.

[DanaC]

People keep talking about 'the muslims' versus 'our soldiers'.

There are muslims serving in the British Army.

[Jesus.]

I don't agree with that. Egypt isn't doing a very good job of dealing with itself right now and neither is Syria. I didn't agree with the invasion of Afghanistan and i probably never will but sometimes outside intervention is necessary.

I don't disagree with the principle here, but I don't agree with the selective choosing of which people deserve our help, and which people don't.

We're happy to let African genocide take place on a massive scale, and what about those poor North Koreans, who probably have it worse than any other people on earth?

We should help everyone, or help no one.

[DanaC]

Countries don't go to war because they want to help other countries. They go to war because they think it will be beneficial to them (by whatever criteria they're measuring that).

And Livia, those figures were spot on. The death toll during the Shock and Awe attack alone was staggering.

[Kyle]

I don't disagree with the principle here, but I don't agree with the selective choosing of which people deserve our help, and which people don't.

We're happy to let African genocide take place on a massive scale, and what about those poor North Koreans, who probably have it worse than any other people on earth?

We should help everyone, or help no one.

We don't have the resources or manpower to help everyone, we are small Island with a small professional army. The States already have their fingers in too many pies and the United Nations are a joke of an entitity.

I agree we have been pretty selective in our targets up to now, mainly around the gulf region but a war against North Korea would be a nightmare.

[the truth]

Now why would you think I would be referring to Israel?

well done avoiding all my questions

also wondering if you applied the same standards to the israeli abuses?

[DanaC]

Yep. And we're so tiny in fact, that we can't even accommodate the handful of Iraqis who acted as our interpreters over there and who now face persecution and reprisals for that assistance.

[Livia]

well done avoiding all my questions

also wondering if you applied the same standards to the israeli abuses?

I don't have to answer your questions.

We're not talking about Israel here, just because I'm a Jew you drag Israel into it? The opinions I have are nothing to do with my religion and everything to do with my being the widow of a British soldier.

[Kyle]

I hate seeing atrocities committed against people by other people but An ever growing part of me is starting to think we should just leave them to it and it saddens me to even say that.


You Just can't trust anyone these days, everyone's out for themselves and politicians are the last people on the planet to believe when they start rabbiting on about regimes doing this and dictators committing that.


It's like everybody is like; in the words of Jim Morisson

"I just wanna get my kicks before the whole s h i t house goes up in flames."

[Parmy]

Estimates put the civilian death toll in Iraq and Afghanistan alone, at somewhere between 120,000, and 250,000. I'd say hundreds of thousands represents that figure pretty accurately.

by our troops?

[Parmy]

jesus, you said our troops have murdered hundred and thousands of innocent people in irag and afgahnistan, can you post some sort of official documentation to confirm this please...or are you rambling exagarations again?

[DanaC]

Yeah, about that....I mean....sure, we had some around here at some point...can't seem to lay my hands on them right now.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Yes alright back ontopic please

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I like Ron. He seems nice enough. I had no idea who he was before he entered the House.

[Josy]

Eurgh the quotes in here have all been broken so there's no way of knowing who's said what :bored:

[Jesus.]

Eurgh the quotes in here have all been broken so there's no way of knowing who's said what :bored:

If you think the post is awesome - just assume I said it, if you don't, it was definitely someone else.

[Jesus.]

by our troops?

By the whole invasion thingy. It wasn't just our troops, and they didn't specifically go round knocking on doors to ask if anyone wanted to be murdered that evening.

When the coalition bomb highly populated cities to dust, then unfortunately people get caught in that.

[the truth]

I don't have to answer your questions.

We're not talking about Israel here, just because I'm a Jew you drag Israel into it? The opinions I have are nothing to do with my religion and everything to do with my being the widow of a British soldier.

what about the widows of the 100s of thousands who died out there, figures you wrongly disputed. You also preach about the violence out there in the middle east, why don't you preach the same against Israeli brutality?

[Parmy]

By the whole invasion thingy. It wasn't just our troops, and they didn't specifically go round knocking on doors to ask if anyone wanted to be murdered that evening.

When the coalition bomb highly populated cities to dust, then unfortunately people get caught in that.

dont be saying by our troops then if it isnt just our troops ffs.

[Jesus.]

dont be saying by our troops then if it isnt just our troops ffs.

This is the post I made which obviously stirred your ire:

Excellent point, and really well made. When are those Muslims going to learn that we only bomb the ****** out of their homelands, and murder hundreds of thousand of civilians, in order to save them and their families?

I apologise. When I typed that out it seemed pretty clear to me I was talking in very general terms about the middle-eastern wars. As we have been in a coalition for the last 12 years, I just assumed that people would know enough already without me having to remind them of that fact.

In future, I will factor in that some people might mistakenly think that we were/are the only country fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Livia]

what about the widows of the 100s of thousands who died out there, figures you wrongly disputed. You also preach about the violence out there in the middle east, why don't you preach the same against Israeli brutality?

What about them? You think their grief diminishes mine?

The fact that I am a Jew means I should be the spokesperson for Israel? We're not talking about Israel and I am not an Israeli.

Try to leave me alone. I'll do the same for you.

[Parmy]

This is the post I made which obviously stirred your ire:



I apologise. When I typed that out it seemed pretty clear to me I was talking in very general terms about the middle-eastern wars. As we have been in a coalition for the last 12 years, I just assumed that people would know enough already without me having to remind them of that fact.

In future, I will factor in that some people might mistakenly think that we were/are the only country fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

just try and use the word we a little more appropriatly.

[Kizzy]

This has gotten a bit dark.....

[Jesus.]

just try and use the word we a little more appropriatly you sarcastic ****.

There is no other way I could have used it when talking about those wars. We were/are part of a coalition. My grammar was perfectly acceptable in the original post.

[Parmy]

By the whole invasion thingy. It wasn't just our troops, and they didn't specifically go round knocking on doors to ask if anyone wanted to be murdered that evening.

When the coalition bomb highly populated cities to dust, then unfortunately people get caught in that.

to dust!...it looked more like precision air strikes on my telly..another exageration lol..

[Jesus.]

to dust!...it looked more like precision air strikes on my telly..another exageration lol..

I don't even know where to begin with that, Parm.

I think I'll just say that you're right - shock and awe was all precision based bombing of specific targets, and modern bombs are no match for Iraqi architecture.

[Parmy]

I don't even know where to begin with that, Parm.

I think I'll just say that you're right - shock and awe was all precision based bombing of specific targets, and modern bombs are no match for Iraqi architecture.

Come on, you are exaggerating by saying large cities were reduced to rubble..you should change your name to walter mitty, mate.

[Jesus.]

Come on, you are exaggerating by saying large cities were reduced to rubble..you should change your name to walter mitty, mate.

Again, you're completely right. I changed my username recently, but when I've had a bit more time with this one, then I'll definitely look into it, and take your suggestions on board.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Back on topic please

[brucie]

Back on topic please

we are on topic Niamh, it's where the hatred of Ron's comments eminate from..that fact that the UK and other countries are regularly destroying Muslim countries almost daily..and commiting such war crimes they can't even be printed...

and those same british soldiers come home and expect to be treated as some kind of heroes?!?!?!?!

Look what they did to that iraqi hotel receptionist...an innocent family man trying to earn a living..dragged from his workplace, locked in a dungeon and then recieved 90 different injuries before dying the most horrific death..

he was put on the floor and kicked to death like an animal...google 'baha mousa' and you will see what state he died in..the photo makes me cry even now seeing him holding his child and wife and the next, covered in blood and dead.

the british soldiers responsible were never convicted for this...

see how brave these british soldiers are..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Baha_Mousa

[ChristmasNeeve]

Yes, I meant to stop the arguing Brucie

[sampvt]

I think Ron is a top bloke with old fashion views and wears his heart on his sleeve. I also think that tge op posted this just to stir things up. He made a mistake and paid for it and it was years ago. Move on folks it's 2013 and dragging this up isn't helping anyone or anything.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I think Ron is a top bloke with old fashion views and wears his heart on his sleeve. I also think that tge op posted this just to stir things up. He made a mistake and paid for it and it was years ago. Move on folks it's 2013 and dragging this up isn't helping anyone or anything.

I think he's nice and is slowly coming out of his shell. I hope he stays.

[ChristmasNeeve]

I think Ron is a top bloke with old fashion views and wears his heart on his sleeve. I also think that tge op posted this just to stir things up. He made a mistake and paid for it and it was years ago. Move on folks it's 2013 and dragging this up isn't helping anyone or anything.

I think the OP made a really interesting thread as we can see, look how long this thread has gotten. It's pretty silly to think that this topic wouldn't be discussed since it's the reason Ron got fired or had to retire early or whatever

[Candy Annie Cane]

I think Ron is a top bloke with old fashion views and wears his heart on his sleeve. I also think that tge op posted this just to stir things up. He made a mistake and paid for it and it was years ago. Move on folks it's 2013 and dragging this up isn't helping anyone or anything.


It was a huge deal at the time, it was always going to come up at some point so the fact that it happened years ago really has no bearing, in my opinion. I think Ron was a legend in his day as a manager but the fact remains he did what he did and there will always be strong feelings about it He certainly wouldn't have been asked to do Celebrity Big Brother without that particular point of notoriety I can't imagine - nor would he have entertained it if his career hadn't been so irrevocably damaged.

[chuff me dizzy]

I think Ron is a top bloke with old fashion views and wears his heart on his sleeve. I also think that tge op posted this just to stir things up. He made a mistake and paid for it and it was years ago. Move on folks it's 2013 and dragging this up isn't helping anyone or anything.

As always ,the voice of common sense

[Jesus.]

banned with the first one were we?

No, because that would have meant a new account, which would have resulted in a permabanning of the multi. You are a silly Billy.

I was Jesus.H.Christ, but I shortened it. I wanted it to be simply "Jesus", but unfortunately there was already someone else with "jesus". Even though there isn't any capitalisation, TIBB doesn't allow that, so I was changed to "Jesus.".

Since then I've come love that dot like a brother.

I hope that's answered your question.

[Parmy]

YES THANKS.

However, I could still do with some legal documentation regarding those numbers you posted earlier.

[Parmy]

No rush, i'm finishing work now and wont be back on until nine tomorrow..so before then will do..have a nice night.

[Jesus.]

YES THANKS.

However, I could still do with some legal documentation regarding those numbers you posted earlier.

I just need to understand what exactly you mean by "legal documentation". Because if I provide you with information from the least biased sources, and documents leaked via wikileaks, and then you turn round and say "well, how many of those are because of English soldiers?" or "well David Cameron didn't sign that page, so it's meaningless", then what's the point.

I'd also like to know what exactly you will do if I provide you with the information you want? You've been an arse all day, so I'm 99% sure you won't turn around and say "do you know what Jesus (currently with a dot, but formerly of .H.Christ fame).? I've learned something today, so thank you.

If I provide what you've asked for, you'll just jump on something else. Be it my name, calling me a ****** again, like earlier, or just some other thing.

Answer those points, and if your answers are satisfactory to me, then I will proceed. If not, I won't.

[Cherry Christmas]

I think Ron is a top bloke with old fashion views and wears his heart on his sleeve. I also think that tge op posted this just to stir things up. He made a mistake and paid for it and it was years ago. Move on folks it's 2013 and dragging this up isn't helping anyone or anything.



It was all dying down, until he dropped the clanger about the turban/bomb. Frankly it says so much about how poor the series has been so far that the main talking point has been Ron and his views on race.

[Jesus.]

Just like the Turbanator - He'll be back.

[the truth]

why is my reply being deleted>? livia wrongly suggested the figures fo r100s of thousands of deaths was wrong and it isn't wrong at all. Its true. I also mentioned she was preaching about the brutal behaviour in the middle east but refused to acknowledge the brutal behaviour of Israel? which is a major factor in the wars and fighting out there... which means we have double standards , which I was merely pointing out

[Jesus.]

I think it was because Roy brought out his best jokes on muslims and Jews, which had to be deleted for obvious reasons.

I think you got caught in the cross-hairs of the rows that resulted from it.