British Police 'preparing to make arrests' in Madeleine McCann case

[Niamh.]

Police are ready to arrest and interview suspects over girl's disappearance in Portugal, says parents' spokesman

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/1/13/1389609772363/Madeleine-McCann-011.jpg

British police are reportedly preparing the ground to make the first arrests in their investigations into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

A spokesman for Madeleine's parents told the Daily Mirror that police were ready to arrest and interview "key suspects". Scotland Yard confirmed that it had sent an international letter of request to the Portuguese authorities but would not elaborate on its contents.

However, the Mirror said officers were preparing to fly to the Algarve on Sunday night to speak to three burglars who carried out raids in the Portuguese resort where Madeleine, then three years old, vanished on 3 May 2007.

The Metropolitan police launched its own investigation into her disappearance in July last year and in October, when new developments in the case were put to air on the BBC Crimewatch programme, officers said they were seeking to track down the people behind a series of burglaries around the Ocean Club complex, mainly in the early months of 2007. There was also an incident almost exactly a year before the abduction when children in a ground-floor apartment saw an intruder break in through a patio door and stare into a travel cot, stealing nothing.

Earlier this month, the Mail reported that analysis of mobile phone data suggested that a burglary gang was operating very near to where Madeleine vanished and made an unusually high number of calls to each other in the hours after she was reported missing.

The spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann said: "The letter is a significant development. It is necessary for British police to request the Portuguese authorities allow them to operate on their turf.

"It means they have the intention of arresting and interviewing X, Y or Z. We don't know who they have their sights on but it's likely it is the burglars."

He said Madeleine's parents did not want to get their hopes up but "realised it could be a significant new lead". He also said it was not a formality that the Portuguese authorities would co-operate.

Portuguese police, who once falsely treated the parents as suspects, reopened their investigation in October last year, more than three years after it was shelved. Their investigation is running in parallel with the Scotland Yard inquiry but the Met police commissioner has called for the two forces to join together as one team.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/13/madeleine-mccann-british-police-arrests-portugal

[Nedusa]

Madeleine McCann.................The News Story that keeps on giving !!!!!

[arista]

"We don't know who they have their sights on but it's likely it is the burglars"


A By Product Headline

No Finding that Dead girl

[Me. I Am Salman]

nothing's gonna come of it as always ;/

[Kate!]

they need to look again at Gerry and Kate McCann, something stinks and always has done. Burglars my arse.

[Niamh.]

nothing's gonna come of it as always ;/

Yeah probably not :(

[Niamh.]

they need to look again at Gerry and Kate McCann, something stinks and always has done. Burglars my arse.

mmm it would be a stretch to think burglars would decide to steal a child as well

[Nedusa]

Just to put this story in context, the Police say over 275,000 people are reported missing each year in the UK. Most of those eventually return or are traced but around 15,000 to 20,000 people are not found and that number includes a fair proportion of children and young people.

Just something to bear in mind whilst reading the latest press reports regarding this one case involving this one missing child !!!!!

[Kazanne]

Burglars is a cover for something nearer to home I think!

[Jezzy]

From the Mirror today:

"Madeleine McCann: Lawyer says 'Kate and Gerry McCann guilty of neglect for leaving her - and they weren't charged'

Gareth Morgan made the shocking claim while acting for a drink-driving mum who left her five-year-old son, who has Asperger syndrome, home alone at night

Yesterday a friend of Kate and Gerry McCann, both 45, blasted the comparison as “insensitive and plain wrong”.

The mum, 44, was caught after she crashed into a car at traffic lights. When the police went to her home they found the “extremely vulnerable” boy there.

The woman, who cannot be named, admitted neglect and was spared jail. But Mr Morgan pleaded for her freedom on the basis that Kate and Gerry McCann were never prosecuted for leaving daughter Madeleine alone in their holiday flat.

He told magistrates in Merthyr Tydfil, South Wales: “The parents of Madeleine McCann were guilty of child neglect for leaving their little girl much longer than my client. They were never prosecuted.

"The mother in this case is ashamed and remorseful at putting her young child at risk in the way she did.”

The McCanns left three-year-old Madeleine in their apartment in Portugal’s Praia da Luz while they dined with friends at a nearby tapas bar in May 2007.


Last night a close pal of the couple, of Rothley, Leics, said: “The comments are insensitive and plain wrong. Kate and Gerry will be furious. The circumstances are totally different and not comparable.

“If Kate and Gerry were guilty of child neglect, and they were absolutely not, they would have been dealt with. As it is, there are two police inquiries in two different countries trying to find out what happened to Madeleine, and comments made by a lawyer in an unrelated case is offensive, outrageous and inaccurate."

How are they NOT comparable? And Kate / Kaz, I am totally with you. How did the burglars get in? The evidence shows that a layer of dirt on the windowsill of the window apparently "jemmied open" was completely undisturbed. Can't be that then. Did the McCanns leave the front door unlocked as well as leaving their children home alone? And they don't think they are guilty of neglect?

I'm afraid they are guilty of something much more sinister. The burglars are a nice convenient red herring.

Not to mention it's easy to identify Gerry McCann from the suppressed photofits released in October...

[Niamh.]

Yeah, they're absolutely comparable imo aswell Jezzy. Didn't they admit to leaving the patio door unlocked though, i think they did

[Jezzy]

Come to mention it Niamh, that does ring a bell...only serves to make it worse, as they didn't even bother to ensure the children were secure.

And if you were going to snatch a child, which would you take? A kicking screaming toddler or a sleepy baby?

[Niamh.]

Yeah, not sure what reason they gave for leaving that door unlocked either, it's not as if the two babies in cots could get out in an emergency or anything

[Jezzy]

Mind you, I guess a toddler might be sleepy too if the children *were* sedated to make sure they wouldn't wake up and wander off while their parents were out having a few drinks...maybe even sleepy enough to fall, hit their heads and die.

[Kate!]

there are a heck of a lot of unanswered questions with this case, and all my instincts tell me (and have done since it happened) that Kate and Gerry McCann are involved right up to their eyeballs.

[Marsh.]

I think on the Crime Watch show they mentioned something about leaving it unlocked in case there was a fire.

Bit of an odd decision to make when you're leaving very young children on their own anyway.

[Jezzy]

there are a heck of a lot of unanswered questions with this case, and all my instincts tell me (and have done since it happened) that Kate and Gerry McCann are involved right up to their eyeballs.

Agree 100%.

[Niamh.]

I think on the Crime Watch show they mentioned something about leaving it unlocked in case there was a fire.

Bit of an odd decision to make when you're leaving very young children on their own anyway.

Well yeah exactly, I mean how would the two babies in cots get out of their cots in the first place to get to the door? And 2 and 3 year olds are more likely to search for their parents in the apartment rather than try to get out the front door

[Jezzy]

I think on the Crime Watch show they mentioned something about leaving it unlocked in case there was a fire.

Bit of an odd decision to make when you're leaving very young children on their own anyway.

Totally. As Niamh said, the babies wouldn't be able to get out anyway.

[Crimson Dynamo]

there are a heck of a lot of unanswered questions with this case, and all my instincts tell me (and have done since it happened) that Kate and Gerry McCann are involved right up to their eyeballs.

That is a ridiculous and unfounded allegation - for it to be true you would have to have 2 psychopathic people married to each other and that is beyond far fetched:hugesmile:

[Jezzy]

That is a ridiculous and unfounded allegation - for it to be true you would have to have 2 psychopathic people married to each other and that is beyond far fetched:hugesmile:

Or two completely self-interested people who thought nothing could touch their wonderful lives, and when it did, didn't want anything to besmirch their reputations...

[Kate!]

That is a ridiculous and unfounded allegation - for it to be true you would have to have 2 psychopathic people married to each other and that is beyond far fetched:hugesmile:

:conf:

Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr. (ok they weren't wed but were couples).

I rest my case.

[Jezzy]

:conf:

Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr. (ok they weren't wed but were couples).

I rest my case.

Don't forget Fred and Rose West :P

[Crimson Dynamo]

:conf:

Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr. (ok they weren't wed but were couples).

I rest my case.

Hardly comparable - look at their backgrounds and the fact they were not married and did not have exemplary employment records. Both examples were caught relatively easily due to their stupidity and condition.

( I was kind of hoping for Bonnie and Clyde):bawling:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Don't forget Fred and Rose West :P

again see my post above

[Niamh.]

I don't think they're psychopathic killers like the examples given but I think it's possible that she died accidentally and they covered it up for some reason or another

[Jezzy]

Hardly comparable - look at their backgrounds and the fact they were not married and did not have exemplary employment records. Both examples were caught relatively easily due to their stupidity and condition.

( I was kind of hoping for Bonnie and Clyde):bawling:

Oh, it's comparable. Just a little more scary when it is an intelligent couple who are much less likely to be accused.

Personally, I don't think they are psychopaths, I don't even think they killed her (directly). I think they are self-obsessed as per my post above. Something happened while they were out, most plausible being Madeleine fell and died, and because the children were sedated, they were terrified they would be blamed (as indeed, largely, they are.) I don't know of anyone that believes the intruder theory.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't think they're psychopathic killers like the examples given but I think it's possible that she died accidentally and they covered it up for some reason or another

Its too far fetched to think it would not have come out by now. There is nothing in their behavior pre or post that would suggest this

[Jezzy]

Haha, jinx Niamh :P

[Vicky.]

To solve this case,they need to take a proper look at the parents and the actions of their friends that night. Not run scared of the press who tend to go mental at the slightest mention that mr and mrs angelic could have anything to do with it.

[Niamh.]

Its too far fetched to think it would not have come out by now. There is nothing in their behavior pre or post that would suggest this

It's not that far fetched and there's plenty been said about their behaviour that didn't seem right

Haha, jinx Niamh :P

lol :love:

[Jezzy]

Its too far fetched to think it would not have come out by now. There is nothing in their behavior pre or post that would suggest this

Catweazel (and welcome, btw :) )

Do you think they are at least guilty of child neglect?

[Vicky.]

And burglars dont steal children whilst leaving valuables in the apartment untouched.

[Jesus.]

It's just impossible to cover something like this up, and the evidence of their involvement doesn't exist.


It might be worth merging this with the other massive thread, so any of the newer posters can see how these arguments have played out before?

The Portuguese were desperate for it to be them, and they couldn't pin a damn thing on them. That for me, is evidence enough. They were completely negligent as parents the night she disappeared, but if it was any of your family members, you'd all be going up the wall at the instinctive knowledge that people have. Innocent until proven guilty, and there isn't any evidence to charge them with, let alone convict them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Catweazel (and welcome, btw :) )

Do you think they are at least guilty of child neglect?

Not on the slightest no

(and you could allege that at every new parent at some point)

[Kate!]

Oh, it's comparable. Just a little more scary when it is an intelligent couple who are much less likely to be accused.

Personally, I don't think they are psychopaths, I don't even think they killed her (directly). I think they are self-obsessed as per my post above. Something happened while they were out, most plausible being Madeleine fell and died, and because the children were sedated, they were terrified they would be blamed (as indeed, largely, they are.) I don't know of anyone that believes the intruder theory.

it is comparable, as Jezzy says, and I used them merely as examples to respond to the point that two psychopaths wouldn't be together.

Back to the McCann's, I am also of the opinion that something happened to that little girl due to their neglect as expressed in the post quoted above and the whole 'abduction' thing was a very carefully orchestrated and thorough cover up to protect themselves at all costs.

I remember thinking at the time that Kate McCann was eerily calm, their story not ring true at all.

And everything I have heard and read since only substantiates my suspicions.

[Jezzy]

Catweazle, I was left a single parent when my two were 30 months and 19 months respectively. Never once did I leave them alone, not even to pop across the road for a paper.

[Vicky.]

Not on the slightest no

(and you could allege that at every new parent at some point)

Eh? I know no new parents who leave their kids indoors alone (with doors unlocked too) so they can go out eating and drinking with friends quite a distance away?

I understand the views of those who think the parents are innocent of anything dodgy. But to deny they were neglectful at all that night..well, I have never heard that one before.

[Kazanne]

There are so many unanswered questions in this case,I have found things out I never even knew about like the fridge that he dumped from the apartment that wasn't even his to dump,wtf? I'm not accusing them ,but WHY wouldn't they take a lie detector?Why do so many things not add up?God knows what happened but I do think in someway her parents were involved and why weren't they charged with child neglect at least.

[Niamh.]

Catweazle, I was left a single parent when my two were 30 months and 19 months respectively. Never once did I leave them alone, not even to pop across the road for a paper.

Eh? I know no new parents who leave their kids indoors alone (with doors unlocked too) so they can go out eating and drinking with friends quite a distance away?

I understand the views of those who think the parents are innocent of anything dodgy. But to deny they were neglectful at all that night..well, I have never heard that one before.

Yep, agree with these, especially with kids that young as well who were liable to wake up looking for their parents in the middle of the night (and Maddie had done the previous night apparently and Kate and gerry still went out after that even after Maddie told them she was looking for them

[Lee.]

It's just impossible to cover something like this up, and the evidence of their involvement doesn't exist.


It might be worth merging this with the other massive thread, so any of the newer posters can see how these arguments have played out before?

The Portuguese were desperate for it to be them, and they couldn't pin a damn thing on them. That for me, is evidence enough. They were completely negligent as parents the night she disappeared, but if it was any of your family members, you'd all be going up the wall at the instinctive knowledge that people have. Innocent until proven guilty, and there isn't any evidence to charge them with, let alone convict them.
I avoid this discussion 100% now but I agree with you completely :)

[chuff me dizzy]

British police cannot arrest anyone in this case, it is, and always will be a Portuguese case ,dont let the tabloids fool you, this is just another smoke screen set up by McCanns and Clarence mitchell to try to ocver up the fact they are losing the libel case ongoing in Portugal with Amaral who wrote a book based on police files (Portuguese, and Uk) where it resulted BOTH police forces know McCann guilty

[chuff me dizzy]

It's just impossible to cover something like this up, and the evidence of their involvement doesn't exist.


It might be worth merging this with the other massive thread, so any of the newer posters can see how these arguments have played out before?

The Portuguese were desperate for it to be them, and they couldn't pin a damn thing on them. That for me, is evidence enough. They were completely negligent as parents the night she disappeared, but if it was any of your family members, you'd all be going up the wall at the instinctive knowledge that people have. Innocent until proven guilty, and there isn't any evidence to charge them with, let alone convict them.

Really Jesus ,you really need to look deep into this case,or not post on it

[Jezzy]

Let's not forget either that there was a night creche operating onsite for those parents who did want a night out on their own...

[chuff me dizzy]

It has also come out since Crimewatch ,that the "new "efits that Redwood called "CRITICAL evidence, were suppressed by McCanns for 5 years !!!! They even went to the lengths of threatening to sue the "Private investigaters " (never worked on a missing child case before, specialised in money laundering ??) if they let the efit leak out, Why would McCanns do that I here you ask ? ....because the efit, was of the man the ONLY true witness that night Martin Smith and his family ,named to be GERRY MCCANN ,I know from forums ,twitter that THOUSANDS have rung crimewatch naming the efit as being Gerry McCann

[Lee.]

British police cannot arrest anyone in this case, it is, and always will be a Portuguese case ,dont let the tabloids fool you, this is just another smoke screen set up by McCanns and Clarence mitchell to try to ocver up the fact they are losing the libel case ongoing in Portugal with Amaral who wrote a book based on police files (Portuguese, and Uk) where it resulted BOTH police forces know McCann guilty

I read the boot chuff.. It convinced me of their innocence moreso.

[Jezzy]

I read the boot chuff.. It convinced me of their innocence moreso.

Are you another that believes that the sniffer dog evidence should be dismissed? If so, why? Genuine question, not provoking you.

[Jesus.]

Really Jesus ,you really need to look deep into this case,or not post on it

Chuff - we've danced this dance before and neither of us have got anywhere with the other one. The approach you admitted to taking in the previous thread was nothing short of mind-blowingly inappropriate (that's me trying my best to be really polite). I looked through those links about cadaver and all that stuff you provided, but 30 seconds on google reveals it was nowhere near as cast iron as you and a bunch of others have convinced yourselves it is/was.

I also find your continued arrogance on this subject revealing. You have too much invested in this case to let it go. If no further evidence is brought up from now until the time you leave this earth, you'll still be convinced. If there is evidence brought up that proves them guilty of anything other than being irresponsible, then I'd accept it. I'm not part of any internet groups that try and push a certain agenda. There is a stark difference in the way both of us view/approach this case.

I think, and this is a compliment here, most people are so kind, and geared towards the protection of children, that even just leaving them alone as the McCanns' and friends did that night, seems so negligent to most of us, that people can't accept that's where their involvement ends.

I have no idea whether I'm right or wrong, I just know that I don't know. And if I don't know, then you can't know either.

[chuff me dizzy]

I read the boot chuff.. It convinced me of their innocence moreso.

Read this ,its where all case facts are ,including witness statements,videos,take time to read GASPAR STATEMENTS you will see what behind this case ........ http://www.mccannfiles.com/

[Lee.]

Are you another that believes that the sniffer dog evidence should be dismissed? If so, why? Genuine question, not provoking you.

Like it was in the Shannon Matthews case? Yes, definitely.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Eh? I know no new parents who leave their kids indoors alone (with doors unlocked too) so they can go out eating and drinking with friends quite a distance away?

I understand the views of those who think the parents are innocent of anything dodgy. But to deny they were neglectful at all that night..well, I have never heard that one before.
Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

[chuff me dizzy]

Chuff - we've danced this dance before and neither of us have got anywhere with the other one. The approach you admitted to taking in the previous thread was nothing short of mind-blowingly inappropriate (that's me trying my best to be really polite). I looked through those links about cadaver and all that stuff you provided, but 30 seconds on google reveals it was nowhere near as cast iron as you and a bunch of others have convinced yourselves it is/was.

I also find your continued arrogance on this subject revealing. You have too much invested in this case to let it go. If no further evidence is brought up from now until the time you leave this earth, you'll still be convinced. If there is evidence brought up that proves them guilty of anything other than being irresponsible, then I'd accept it. I'm not part of any internet groups that try and push a certain agenda. There is a stark difference in the way both of us view/approach this case.

I think, and this is a compliment here, most people are so kind, and geared towards the protection of children, that even just leaving them alone as the McCanns' and friends did that night, seems so negligent to most of us, that people can't accept that's where their involvement ends.

I have no idea whether I'm right or wrong, I just know that I don't know. And if I don't know, then you can't know either.

YOu of all people have the cheek to call ME arrogant ? that takes the biscuit, but I see with your very limited knowledge of this case, you have fallen for the "children left alone"lie, the children were NEVER left alone until that final night, but by then Maddie was already dead, that night was done to give them alibis,and so if McCann admitted neglect, they could then claim abduction ,without that they could not ,education is a wonderful thing ,try it

[Jezzy]

In the Shannon Matthews case, the dogs alerted to there having been a corpse. Obviously it wasn't Shannon's, yet there had been deaths there. The Ocean Club categorically stated that there had been NO deaths in that apartment prior to Madeleine's case.

[Lee.]

YOu of all people have the cheek to call ME arrogant ? that takes the biscuit, but I see with your very limited knowledge of this case, you have fallen for the "children left alone"lie, the children were NEVER left alone until that final night, but by then Maddie was already dead, that night was done to give them alibis,and so if McCann admitted neglect, they could then claim abduction ,without that they could not ,education is a wonderful thing ,try it

Where did they hide the body?

[Niamh.]

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

2 and 3 year olds should not be left alone in a house (or apartment) at night while parents go out for dinner and drinks, i would have thought that atleast was indisputable. Whether or not other people do it is irrelevant, they shouldn't, it's irresponsible and neglectful

[Jezzy]

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

Exactly. Nothing happens. But to take the chance *is* neglect.

Steal a child as the main ingredient? Surely the only ingredient, as no valuables were touched.

[Lee.]

In the Shannon Matthews case, the dogs alerted to there having been a corpse. Obviously it wasn't Shannon's, yet there had been deaths there. The Ocean Club categorically stated that there had been NO deaths in that apartment prior to Madeleine's case.

No there hadn't been deaths in the Matthews case.. There was second hand furniture in the house which had previously been in a house where somebody had died.

[Jezzy]

Where did they hide the body?

In Gerry's sports bag, in the wardrobe.

[Vicky.]

Sample size of one is no sample. Kids all around the world are left like that millions of times a day and nothing happens.

This case had a criminal who was willing to steal a child as the main ingredient. That is the issue here, not that they were unsupervised as millions are.

Totally disagree, and the fact that many other parents are negligent too doesnt take away from the parents bearing at the very least some responsibility for this, whatever happened that night.

[Jezzy]

No there hadn't been deaths in the Matthews case.. There was second hand furniture in the house which had previously been in a house where somebody had died.

So, you agree that they were smelling death?

[Livia]

Wow... this thread. Sometimes the Internet sucks the big one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

2 and 3 year olds should not be left alone in a house (or apartment) at night while parents go out for dinner and drinks, i would have thought that atleast was indisputable. Whether or not other people do it is irrelevant, they shouldn't, it's irresponsible and neglectful

The distance and situation led them to judge it safe and had there not been a psychopathic paedophile or some such crazy there it would have been fine - for all we know the child could have been taken in the following days at the beach or in a shop - I very much doubt that it was the situation that chanced the action, rather it was a premeditated act.

[Lee.]

In Gerry's sports bag, in the wardrobe.

Oh right.. How long for? When did they move it? Where did they move it to??

[Jezzy]

YOu of all people have the cheek to call ME arrogant ? that takes the biscuit, but I see with your very limited knowledge of this case, you have fallen for the "children left alone"lie, the children were NEVER left alone until that final night, but by then Maddie was already dead, that night was done to give them alibis,and so if McCann admitted neglect, they could then claim abduction ,without that they could not ,education is a wonderful thing ,try it

Chuff, you know I am generally with you on this. But if they were not previously left alone, why is there no night creche record of the McCann children?

It is an interesting theory that she died before the night in question, due to conflicting eyewitness reports, but I need you to elaborate on how it is known they were not left alone before. (Please :) )

[Vicky.]

The distance and situation led them to judge it safe and had there not been a psychopathic paedophile or some such crazy there it would have been fine - for all we know the child could have been taken in the following days at the beach or in a shop - I very much doubt that it was the situation that chanced the action, rather it was a premeditated act.

On this we agree. IF it was a randomer taking Maddie, it was premeditated. And they knew there would be a chance to do so as they had watched the parents night after night previously leaving the kids unsupervised, so they knew they would be able to take her that night.

Also to say leaving young kids alone would have been fine if not for the abductor lurking..well..so many things could go wrong even without that, hat a normal parent would think of. The kids waking up and wandering off, a fire, an accident...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Totally disagree, and the fact that many other parents are negligent too doesnt take away from the parents bearing at the very least some responsibility for this, whatever happened that night.

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

[Kazanne]

Oh right.. How long for? When did they move it? Where did they move it to??

Maybe in the fridge that he dumped ,yet it wasn't his fridge to dump,Oh blimey I don't know Lee,but so many things don't add up,did you know about the fridge?

[Jezzy]

Oh right.. How long for? When did they move it? Where did they move it to??

I don't have all the answers or this case would have been closed long ago. But :http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1573575/Gerry-McCanns-tennis-bag-is-focus-of-inquiry.html

We know that the McCanns played tennis every day.

[Vicky.]

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

Yes I have and I would never leave my child alone so I could go out on the piss. To deny this is negligence is just ridiculous. Even the most vocal of the mccann supporters admit that they (and their friends who also left young kids alone) were negligent.

[Jezzy]

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

I have. I would never have dreamt of leaving them alone.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have. I would never have dreamt of leaving them alone.

What do you mean by leave them alone?

Would you go to the end of your garden on a summer night if they were asleep?

[Vicky.]

Sorry but if anyone agrees that it is perfectly fine to leave young kids alone so you can go for a meal/out on the drink..especially in a foreign country and AFTER your child already told you they were crying alone for hours the night before...then they arent fit to be a parent themselves.

[Jezzy]

Maybe in the fridge that he dumped ,yet it wasn't his fridge to dump,Oh blimey I don't know Lee,but so many things don't add up,did you know about the fridge?

Kaz, do you have a link? I haven't read anything about the fridge yet, but I would be interested.

[Jezzy]

What do you mean by leave them alone?

Would you go to the end of your garden on a summer night if they were asleep?

Yup, if I had the baby monitor with me.

[Jesus.]

YOu of all people have the cheek to call ME arrogant ? that takes the biscuit, but I see with your very limited knowledge of this case, you have fallen for the "children left alone"lie, the children were NEVER left alone until that final night, but by then Maddie was already dead, that night was done to give them alibis,and so if McCann admitted neglect, they could then claim abduction ,without that they could not ,education is a wonderful thing ,try it

I din't call you arrogant. I said "your continued arrogance on this subject...."

And here we go again - you have to be right on this subject, because you have too much invested in it. You're right, and everyone else is wrong. Education has standards in place as a guide to gauge the truth/voracity/ability to explain complex ideas etc. You screaming "they did it" doesn't meet any of those requirements - especially in law.

[Vicky.]

What do you mean by leave them alone?

Would you go to the end of your garden on a summer night if they were asleep?

Thats totally different...

They were a 5 min walk from the apartment. And couldnt actually see the place clearly from where they were.

A better comparison would be would you leave all your doors open while your young kids were asleep, and nip to the pub 5 mins down the road for a quick one.

[Kazanne]

Kaz, do you have a link? I haven't read anything about the fridge yet, but I would be interested.

I will see if I can find it Jezzy:hugesmile:

[Lee.]

So, you agree that they were smelling death?

The cadaver dog alerted to a scent, but without forensic evidence (of which there was none) to back up the dogs reaction, they prove nothing.

And of course, there's the very important fact that Kate regularly came into contact with dead bodies as part if her job.

[Jezzy]

Education has standards in place as a guide to gauge the truth/voracity/ability to explain complex ideas etc. You screaming "they did it" doesn't meet any of those requirements - especially in law.

Yes, and I *am* a lawyer, and I still think there is too much that doesn't add up. I'm a trained cynic.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Thats totally different...

They were a 5 min walk from the apartment. And couldnt actually see the place clearly from where they were.

A better comparison would be would you leave all your doors open while your young kids were asleep, and nip to the pub 5 mins down the road for a quick one.

the distance was 150 feet

[Niamh.]

negligent in your eyes. have you brought up children yet?

as have I and I would never ever leave my kids alone. My 9 year old son wakes up in the middle of the night sometimes and he would be terrified if he couldn't find me or my husband or a responsible adult

[Jezzy]

And of course, there's the very important fact that Kate regularly came into contact with dead bodies as part if her job.

In her holiday clothes?

[chuff me dizzy]

Where did they hide the body?

Look at the files on the link I gave you, Maddies death scent was found in wardrobe,bottom of steps where IMO Gerry placed her when he was nearly caught out moving Maddies body from 5A by Jez Wilkins, Kates clothing, hire car

[Jezzy]

the distance was 150 feet


Vicky is quite right though in respect of the fact they could NOT clearly see the apartment.

[Vicky.]

the distance was 150 feet

Closer to 400 actually. To actually walk to the apartment.

Unless they could walk on water (directly over the pool), which wouldnt surprise me.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/notwaerialview.jpg

[Kazanne]

Jezzy I have found this one but its not the one I read I will look for that one aswell
http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t20443-the-fridge

[chuff me dizzy]

The cadaver dog alerted to a scent, but without forensic evidence (of which there was none) to back up the dogs reaction, they prove nothing.

And of course, there's the very important fact that Kate regularly came into contact with dead bodies as part if her job.

Kate was on part time when they went on holiday ,but according to her mother, she had declared 6 (SIX)people dead in the last few days before going on holiday ,thats a better record than Harold Shipman !!

[Jezzy]

Jezzy I have found this one but its not the one I read I will look for that one aswell
http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t20443-the-fridge

Thanks lovely, I will have a read. :love:

[Jesus.]

Yes, and I *am* a lawyer, and I still think there is too much that doesn't add up. I'm a trained cynic.

The fact that you're a lawyer has no bearing on me, nor gives your opinion any additional weight on this subject, and there is no valid reason to think that it would.

I *am* a tea boy, and I still don't think there is any evidence that implies or proves their guilt.

[chuff me dizzy]

Closer to 400 actually. To actually walk to the apartment.

Unless they could walk on water (directly over the pool), which wouldnt surprise me.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/notwaerialview.jpg

Added to a wall and bushes which completely blocked the view

[Kazanne]

And here's another interesting read
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/5sep7/INDEPENDENT_IE_29_09_07.htm

[Jezzy]

The fact that you're a lawyer has no bearing on me, nor gives your opinion any additional weight on this subject, and there is no valid reason to think that it would.

I *am* a tea boy, and I still don't think there is any evidence that implies or proves their guilt.

But maybe you will agree that there are many unanswered questions remaining, some of which the McCanns refuse point blank to answer.

[MTVN]

Anyone getting a strange feeling of deja vu

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes, and I *am* a lawyer, and I still think there is too much that doesn't add up. I'm a trained cynic.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080403043105AAUCrzy fridge

[Jezzy]

Anyone getting a strange feeling of deja vu

Hehe..it's *always* going to be a bone of contention / popular topic to debate...it's one of the great modern mysteries...

[Crimson Dynamo]

as have I and I would never ever leave my kids alone. My 9 year old son wakes up in the middle of the night sometimes and he would be terrified if he couldn't find me or my husband or a responsible adult

Yes and other parents are not you and would think nothing of popping to a neighbour whilst their kids slept. The Mccanns were 30 seconds away and checked regularly, for them that was ok and had it not been for a premeditated psycho.

[Niamh.]

Yes and other parents are not you and would think nothing of popping to a neighbour whilst their kids slept. The Mccanns were 30 seconds away and checked regularly, for them that was ok and had it not been for a premeditated psycho.

and what if there was a fire? or if one of them got up and had an accident? Most people would think about those kind of things

[Shaun]

I find the whole subject far too sensitive and really don't know why people bother getting so worked up about it, either side of the fence. I'm generally of the "innocent until proven guilty" camp but I'm not going to pretend my 'instincts' or 'my hunch' or 'how they seem' matters for even one darn second.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The fact that most of the bog standard conspiracy theorists fail to grasp is that if it had not been that night it most likely would have been in the days after. A committed paedophile will steal a child.

[Jesus.]

But maybe you will agree that there are many unanswered questions remaining, some of which the McCanns refuse point blank to answer.

If you're a lawyer, you'd understand that sometimes there are good reasons not to answer legitimate questions, without it being because of guilt. I think there are questions unanswered here, but if everything remains as it is, without any new evidence, I have no idea how people can possibly think they understand more than the Portuguese who were desperate to prosecute them.

If they were guilty and it could be proved, it would have saved the Portuguese legal system from a world of unnecessary hurt. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - and there isn't anything other than Chinese whispers on the internet.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I find the whole subject far too sensitive and really don't know why people bother getting so worked up about it, either side of the fence. I'm generally of the "innocent until proven guilty" camp but I'm not going to pretend my 'instincts' or 'my hunch' or 'how they seem' matters for even one darn second.

Thankfully evidence beats hunches/instincts unless its a tv series

[Kazanne]

Why wont they do a lie detector.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why wont they do a lie detector.

er because they dont work:hugesmile:

[Shaun]

because this isn't jeremy kyle

[Jezzy]

If you're a lawyer, you'd understand that sometimes there are good reasons not to answer legitimate questions, without it being because of guilt. I think there are questions unanswered here, but if everything remains as it is, without any new evidence, I have no idea how people can possibly think they understand more than the Portuguese who were desperate to prosecute them.

If they were guilty and it could be proved, it would have saved the Portuguese legal system from a world of unnecessary hurt. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - and there isn't anything other than Chinese whispers on the internet.

In the interests of having your child potentially found, there is no reason why they would refuse to answer some of the more innocuous questions. Nothing at the moment can be either proven or disproved, if it were a case of clumsy child-stealing burglars, don't you think something else would have appeared to back the theory up? I have not found burglars to be the smartest people in disguising their tracks.

[Lee.]

In her holiday clothes?

Wouldn't have to be in her holiday clothes. Cafaver scent is easily transferred and absorbed, months and even years later.

[Jesus.]

In the interests of having your child potentially found, there is no reason why they would refuse to answer some of the more innocuous questions.

In your legal opinion or as an interested observer? Unless you're representing them, I fail to see how you could possibly make that call. All legal systems have their own different minefields that need to be crossed. They had the finger pointed at them pretty quickly by the Portuguese - in those circumstances I'd be continually cagey too.

[CaudleHalbard]

they need to look again at Gerry and Kate McCann, something stinks and always has done. Burglars my arse.

Burglars is a cover for something nearer to home I think!

I don't think they're psychopathic killers like the examples given but I think it's possible that she died accidentally and they covered it up for some reason or another

Read this ,its where all case facts are ,including witness statements,videos,take time to read GASPAR STATEMENTS you will see what behind this case ........ http://www.mccannfiles.com/

+1 on each of the above.

If you have the time and inclination, it is worth having a read of Gonçalo Amaral's book The Truth of the Lie (available in English, in PDF format, here (http://www.ukoverload.com/holding/download/Maddie.pdf)) and, also, the list of 48 questions Kate McCann refused to answer, as published by the Daily Telegraph here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500864/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-refused-to-answer-48-questions-from-Portuguese-police.html).

It is quite possible they will lose their libel case against Amaral. From then on the media may declare open season on the McCanns, as the fear of further libel action will be much reduced.

[Lee.]

Why wont they do a lie detector.

Because they're only 98/99% accurate. Would you risk that when it came to be accused of murdering your child? I wouldn't. Plus even if they'd passed, the cyber detectives probably would have blamed that 2% innacuracy anyway..

Also.. I don't think lie detector results are admissible in court anyway, so what would have been the point?

[Jezzy]

In your legal opinion or as an interested observer? Unless you're representing them, I fail to see how you could possibly make that call. All legal systems have their own different minefields that need to be crossed. They had the finger pointed at them pretty quickly by the Portuguese - in those circumstances I'd be continually cagey too.

As an interested observer, of course...with some added training in interpreting evidence and an interest in unsolved cases.

I cannot, obviously, state 100% what happened, nobody not involved can. I am just expressing my opinion that from what I have seen, there is much more that needs closer scrutiny.

[chuff me dizzy]

Wouldn't have to be in her holiday clothes. Cafaver scent is easily transferred and absorbed, months and even years later.

Good video for you to watch regarding Maddies death scent found in hire car boot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WDrgGdI7dc

[Jezzy]

+1 on each of the above.

If you have the time and inclination, it is worth having a read of Gonçalo Amaral's book The Truth of the Lie (available in English, in PDF format, here (http://www.ukoverload.com/holding/download/Maddie.pdf)) and, also, the list of 48 questions Kate McCann refused to answer, as published by the Daily Telegraph here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500864/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-refused-to-answer-48-questions-from-Portuguese-police.html).

It is quite possible they will lose their libel case against Amaral. From then on the media may declare open season on the McCanns, as the fear of further libel action will be much reduced.

Good post CH. It will be very interesting when the "libel" case actually gets off the ground, without the perpetual delaying tactics.

[Lee.]

Good video for you to watch regarding Maddies death scent found in hire car boot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WDrgGdI7dc

Wasn't the car hired well after Madeleine disappeared?

[chuff me dizzy]

+1 on each of the above.

If you have the time and inclination, it is worth having a read of Gonçalo Amaral's book The Truth of the Lie (available in English, in PDF format, here (http://www.ukoverload.com/holding/download/Maddie.pdf)) and, also, the list of 48 questions Kate McCann refused to answer, as published by the Daily Telegraph here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500864/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-refused-to-answer-48-questions-from-Portuguese-police.html).

It is quite possible they will lose their libel case against Amaral. From then on the media may declare open season on the McCanns, as the fear of further libel action will be much reduced.

Ive read the book and seen the docu attached to the book, McCanns WILL lose the case, to date they have never won a single case with Amaral, he speaks the truth ,they try to hide it

[chuff me dizzy]

Wasn't the car hired well after Madeleine disappeared?

Yes ,please watch it, its only a couple of minutes long

[Vicky.]

Completely ignoring the question of if they had more to do with he disappearance than they would have us believe..I actually cant believe that someone is trying to argue that there was no neglect in this case and that it is totally normal to leave young children unsupervised to go out and enjoy yourself.

Please tell me all those who think they are innocent dont also believe that they are totally blameless in this and that leaving the kids alone was perfectly fine? I have actually never seen someone trying to say they werent even negligent until today.

[chuff me dizzy]

Good post CH. It will be very interesting when the "libel" case actually gets off the ground, without the perpetual delaying tactics.

It was postponed on the 7th due to Amaral putting in an appeal to know how McCanns can sue on Maddie behalfs when Maddie is a ward of court, they have no legal rights over her now, the courts have

[Jezzy]

It was postponed on the 7th due to Amaral putting in an appeal to know how McCanns can sue on Maddie behalfs when Maddie is a ward of court, they have no legal rights over her now, the courts have

Good for him. As chief investigator, why would he let himself be entirely ruined (which he has been) if he were not absolutely sure of the truth?

[Jezzy]

Completely ignoring the question of if they had more to do with he disappearance than they would have us believe..I actually cant believe that someone is trying to argue that there was no neglect in this case and that it is totally normal to leave young children unsupervised to go out and enjoy yourself.

Please tell me all those who think they are innocent dont also believe that they are totally blameless in this and that leaving the kids alone was perfectly fine? I have actually never seen someone trying to say they werent even negligent until today.

I haven't either Vicky, I'm frankly shocked that anyone would think there was no neglect, especially when a creche was available for 10 euros.

[Jezzy]

Yes ,please watch it, its only a couple of minutes long

+1

[Lee.]

Yes ,please watch it, its only a couple of minutes long

I will.. But if the car was hired weeks after she disappeared, where could they possibly have stored her corpse, bearing in mind they were in strange surroundings and it was very warm?

[Jezzy]

Would you be more likely to react "She's been taken" or, "Oh my God, where is she?" Upon discovering your child was not in the apartment?

[chuff me dizzy]

Good for him. As chief investigator, why would he let himself be entirely ruined (which he has been) if he were not absolutely sure of the truth?

He has the whole police facts behind him, they only have lies and cover up

[chuff me dizzy]

I will.. But if the car was hired weeks after she disappeared, where could they possibly have stored her corpse, bearing in mind they were in strange surroundings and it was very warm?

The evidence shows her body had been refridgerated ,it shows up in the fluids they found in the boot

[Z]

I change my mind about this case every time it gets rehashed in the media. This sounds like yet another non-story and it's completely in line with the McCanns' bizarre attitude to their daughter's disappearance. If the police force are about to arrest people in connection with her disappearance, why is the media reporting on it before it happens? Is that not going to cause any guilty parties to do a runner?

I find their behaviour unsettlingly calm and composed, but just because they aren't responding hysterically doesn't mean they're guilty of anything. There was a program on TV I watched recently about body language and how we're better understanding it and how it is used in criminal investigations - there was analysis of the Soham murders, the guy who killed Tia Sharp, that man Mitchell Quy who killed his wife, the McCanns... They don't act like the typical bereaved parents and I think, if nothing else, the fact they neglected their children that night (and maybe other nights) and didn't even seem particularly devastated by the most horrible consequences imaginable just says it all to me... they're unfit parents. I really believe that if they weren't doctors they'd have had their other kids taken off them for such gross negligence. Who leaves their three babies alone in an unlocked apartment that they can't even see from where they are dining? There were creche facilities, they could have taken the kids with them, they could have not gone out for dinner that night... but on this forum we've gone over this case with a fine comb so many times.

On the assumption that they aren't guilty of anything other than leaving their kids alone; I hope that the police make some arrests and manage to advance the case somehow. I don't think they'll get anything out of it though - if Madeleine is still alive now, I'd imagine she'll be killed if the police are getting anywhere near to catching whoever has her. Who's going to let her live? It's obvious that if she was abducted and trafficked, she's not exactly going to be living well - I don't even want to think about the kinds of horrors that little girl has been subjected to over the years, whoever the McCanns are expecting to rescue, it's not going to be their innocent little 3 year old girl who comes back. Sometimes, though, there is a happy ending... maybe in ten years she'll escape and be rescued...

[Lee.]

The evidence shows her body had been refridgerated ,it shows up in the fluids they found in the boot

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that. Where on earth would you refrigerate your daughters body for weeks in a foreign country swarming with international media, police, forensics and sniffer dogs??

[Jezzy]

Catweazle, would you go off and leave your children alone? Just asking. And if you wouldn't, why not?

[CaudleHalbard]

Apparently, according to neighbours, the car boot was left open for several days.

The McCanns's explanation: it was to get rid of the smell of sea bass which they had bought.

One of those "Yeah, right!" things? You decide!

[Marsh.]

Isn't this just a repeat of the last thread? Might as well bump that one up, some very good points/arguments were made in it.

[Jezzy]

Must have been a hella lot of seabass.

[Jezzy]

Isn't this just a repeat of the last thread? Might as well bump that one up, some very good points/arguments were made in it.

Maybe they should be merged?

[Z]

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that. Where on earth would you refrigerate your daughters body for weeks in a foreign country swarming with international media, police, forensics and sniffer dogs??

Yeah I don't know about that either; but then again, Kate McCann's job description was to deal with corpses so I'd imagine she has a better knowledge than most about where bodies are hidden, how they decompose and that whole macabre field of medicine - again, doesn't prove anything at all, but taking into account their professions and their high level of intelligence, they're far more likely to get away with temporarily hiding a body than others who may have been in a similar situation: a combination of luck and good planning and then later moving the body or getting someone to move the body aren't out of the realms of possibility... but it's all a bit far fetched either way.

I think that's the problem with this case. Absolutely nothing makes sense. They claim someone must have come in or out of the window - no signs of a disturbance. People claim they killed her and got rid of the body - how and where? People claim they moved the body later - how, they were internationally famous by this point, how are they going to be alone long enough to get rid of a body without the police or the media knowing about it? If somebody kidnapped Madeleine, how did nobody see them? It's maddening... I hope that we get some kind of conclusion in my lifetime, it's probably the most high profile case of the last ten years. I wonder if it'll turn out to be a Natasha Kampusch or Elisabeth Fritzl sort of case or if she was just murdered and they've not yet found the body? Perhaps somebody did take her but they just murdered her? :(

[Lee.]

Apparently, according to neighbours, the car boot was left open for several days.

The McCanns's explanation: it was to get rid of the smell of sea bass which they had bought.

One of those "Yeah, right!" things? You decide!

But what's more believable? That they had bought fresh fish whilst on holiday at a seaside resort and didn't like the smell it had left in their hired car? Or that they had killed their child, acted normal, refrigerated her then placed her in a tennis bag and drove over the Spanish border to dispose if her body (so well that it's never ever been found) all under the noses of the world media?

[Jesus.]

But what's more believable? That they had bought fresh fish whilst on holiday at a seaside resort and didn't like the smell it had left in their hired car? Or that they had killed their child, acted normal, refrigerated her then placed her in a tennis bag and drove over the Spanish border to dispose if her body (so well that it's never ever been found) all under the noses of the world media?

Murder it is then!

[Jezzy]

I think that's the problem with this case. Absolutely nothing makes sense. They claim someone must have come in or out of the window - no signs of a disturbance. (

Nothing does make sense. Even the eyewitness accounts off the Tapas folk don't gel.

In any murder enquiry, family are generally the first suspects.

But nothing....nothing from the family and friends makes any sense or has any continuity whatsoever. To me this is an alert.

[Nedusa]

Isn't this just a repeat of the last thread? Might as well bump that one up, some very good points/arguments were made in it.

I agree.......we seem to be going round and round in circles with this story, this thread as you say is just another re-hash of all the points raised in the last Thread.

Time maybe for everyone to move on and perhaps use these police resources to investigate some of the other thousands of missing children cases which are currently unsolved.

The McCanns have had more than enough of their share of the limelight with this case.

Time to move on.

[Jezzy]

But what's more believable? That they had bought fresh fish whilst on holiday at a seaside resort and didn't like the smell it had left in their hired car? Or that they had killed their child, acted normal, refrigerated her then placed her in a tennis bag and drove over the Spanish border to dispose if her body (so well that it's never ever been found) all under the noses of the world media?

I don't think most people would say they had KILLED their child. Just that they ARE aware of what transpired, and how it would affect them.

[chuff me dizzy]

But what's more believable? That they had bought fresh fish whilst on holiday at a seaside resort and didn't like the smell it had left in their hired car? Or that they had killed their child, acted normal, refrigerated her then placed her in a tennis bag and drove over the Spanish border to dispose if her body (so well that it's never ever been found) all under the noses of the world media?

Eddie,Keela are 2 of the most trusted police dogs working at that time .,by both Uk and FBI, They had a 100% record and did until their retirement apart from the McCann case ? too stupid for words ,Cadaver and blood dogs do NOT mix up the scent of seabass and a dead body or blood

[Vicky.]

I honestly wish this case would just disappear. Its absolutely ridiculous the amount of time, money and coverage this has had compared to other missing child cases. Nothing in it makes sense, from ANY angle, hence the endless 'conspiracy' stuff. The official story makes no sense yet people are expected to believe it and are ridiculed for pointing out the massive amounts of holes. From the 'other' view, theres not much that makes sense either when you tie it all together. Noone will ever find out what happened that day..its been too long, the amount of disinformation and such out there (from both sides) is ridiculous, and attempting to pin it on burglars is just an insult to peoples intelligence IMO. Burglars who leave all valuables but take a child instead, and then hang around the resort making multiple phonecalls instead of getting out of there? Yeah..ok

[Jesus.]

I don't think most people would say they had KILLED their child. Just that they ARE aware of what transpired, and how it would affect them.

That's the problem - no one is really saying anything other than "that's suspicious/that doesn't sit right/something's off".

[chuff me dizzy]

I agree.......we seem to be going round and round in circles with this story, this thread as you say is just another re-hash of all the points raised in the last Thread.

Time maybe for everyone to move on and perhaps use these police resources to investigate some of the other thousands of missing children cases which are currently unsolved.

The McCanns have had more than enough of their share of the limelight with this case.

Time to move on.

This review (whitewash) being done by Redwood ( he who tried to plant jill Dandos death on an innocent man to get a result in the case) will have cost the taxpayer £10m by the time its done, and for what ? nothing ,this is and always will be a Portuguese case,while children queue up in food bank queues

[Kate!]

I honestly wish this case would just disappear. Its absolutely ridiculous the amount of time, money and coverage this has had compared to other missing child cases. Nothing in it makes sense, from ANY angle, hence the endless 'conspiracy' stuff. The official story makes no sense yet people are expected to believe it and are ridiculed for pointing out the massive amounts of holes. From the 'other' view, theres not much that makes sense either when you tie it all together. Noone will ever find out what happened that day..its been too long, the amount of disinformation and such out there (from both sides) is ridiculous, and attempting to pin it on burglars is just an insult to peoples intelligence IMO. Burglars who leave all valuables but take a child instead, and then hang around the resort making multiple phonecalls instead of getting out of there? Yeah..ok

great post

[CaudleHalbard]

I sincerely hope I am wrong to have any suspicion about the McCanns, and that Madeleine is alive and being well-cared for somewhere. I would be absolutely delighted. :)

But I fear the police have now started another wild goose chase - after burglars this time.

[chuff me dizzy]

I sincerely hope I am wrong to have any suspicion about the McCanns, and that Madeleine is alive and being well-cared for somewhere. I would be absolutely delighted. :)

But I fear the police have now started another wild goose chase - after burglars this time.

The headlines that have been in this weeks Mirror have not come from police, its come from McCanns spokesman Clarence Mitchell, all put out there as smokescreen for Lisbon case

[Lee.]

Eddie,Keela are 2 of the most trusted police dogs working at that time .,by both Uk and FBI, They had a 100% record and did until their retirement apart from the McCann case ? too stupid for words ,Cadaver and blood dogs do NOT mix up the scent of seabass and a dead body or blood

Eddie's detection of human remains at the Jersey Children's Home investigation turned out to be a piece of old coconut shell. He did not have a 100% record.

[chuff me dizzy]

Eddie's detection of human remains at the Jersey Children's Home investigation turned out to be a piece of old coconut shell. He did not have a 100% record.

Lee with all due respect, you are believing the red tops

[Jesus.]

Eddie's detection of human remains at the Jersey Children's Home investigation turned out to be a piece of old coconut shell. He did not have a 100% record.

As was made clear in the last thread, and ignored. That 100% nonsense came from the owner, and wasn't backed up with case names/files or proof.

[Jezzy]

I sincerely hope I am wrong to have any suspicion about the McCanns, and that Madeleine is alive and being well-cared for somewhere. I would be absolutely delighted. :)

But I fear the police have now started another wild goose chase - after burglars this time.

Wouldn't it be lovely, CH?

[Lee.]

Lee with all due respect, you are believing the red tops

So wait a sec.. I've read all the police files you've posted here and endured that daft book Amaral wrote, but because I have formed my own opinions which don't match yours, I am being duped by the tabloids (which I never read)?

[Jezzy]

I also don't believe everyone is ready to point the finger unless there is something not right. Nobody has ever accused Ben Needham's mother of being in any way involved.

[Jezzy]

So wait a sec.. I've read all the police files you've posted here and endured that daft book Amaral wrote, but because I have formed my own opinions which don't match yours, I am being duped by the tabloids (which I never read)?

Why is Amaral's book daft?

[Marsh.]

Lee with all due respect, you are believing the red tops

Where is your proof of the 100% statistic?

[Kazanne]

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that. Where on earth would you refrigerate your daughters body for weeks in a foreign country swarming with international media, police, forensics and sniffer dogs??

Gerry apparently dumped the apartment fridge Lee saying it was broke,WHY would he do that?

[Lee.]

Gerry apparently dumped the apartment fridge Lee saying it was broke,WHY would he do that?

I don't know.. Maybe it was broken?

I don't think the McCanns are stupid enough to have stored a dead child in an apartment crawling with police and forensic officers though.

[Jezzy]

Gerry apparently dumped the apartment fridge Lee saying it was broke,WHY would he do that?

Why indeed, why not just call maintenance? If you were in a hotel and the fridge didn't work, would you take it upon yourself to throw it away?

[MTVN]

Source for the fridge story? Only place it ever seems to get mentioned is on anti-McCann forums

There's so much misinformation and rumour spread around the internet with this case it's ridiculous

[Jezzy]

Source for the fridge story? Only place it ever seems to get mentioned is on anti-McCann forums


Yet if it didn't happen, surely there would be libel claims?

[Lee.]

Why is Amaral's book daft?

To me the whole thing was circumstantial, very far fetched or grasping at straws..

I didn't get the Freemason thing at all, the photoshopped pic was just stupid, gerry being a paedo was really quite awful, a British government cover up was unbelievable... It just wasn't convincing at all.

[MTVN]

Yet if it didn't happen, surely there would be libel claims?

Well they can't really police every corner of the internet or stop people speculating and discussing, as much as they might like to, they would probably like to shut this thread down if they could lol

[Jezzy]

To me the whole thing was circumstantial, very far fetched or grasping at straws..

I didn't get the Freemason thing at all, the photoshopped pic was just stupid, gerry being a paedo was really quite awful, a British government cover up was unbelievable... It just wasn't convincing at all.

Lee, I absolutely agree with you about the paedo / government cover up. Doesn't mean something doesn't smell. It's just another case played out by the media with complete disregard to anything subjudice...that in itself raises a whole lot of questions. Sometimes all you have is circumstantial.

[chuff me dizzy]

Gerry apparently dumped the apartment fridge Lee saying it was broke,WHY would he do that?

It was a new fridge that season ,not reported to owner, just dumped and replaced ,as you do :idc:

[Samm]

I hope they do find her, but I don't think they will find anything :(

But I'm hoping they do

[Kazanne]

It was a new fridge that season ,not reported to owner, just dumped and replaced ,as you do :idc:

Yes that's what I don't get,it wasn't their fridge so surely you would tell the site owners and they would deal with it,why would you feel the need to replace one:conf:

[Jezzy]

Yes that's what I don't get,it wasn't their fridge so surely you would tell the site owners and they would deal with it,why would you feel the need to replace one:conf:

Didn't even replace, just got rid. Why?

"Ooh, my daughter is missing. I need to dump this fridge, right now." Just something else that's completely incongrouous.

Really?

[Lee.]

Did the police know he'd dumped the fridge?

[Marsh.]

Did the police know he'd dumped the fridge?

If a few people on a Big Brother forum know about it, I imagine they did yes. :hugesmile:

[Lee.]

If a few people on a Big Brother forum know about it, I imagine they did yes. :hugesmile:

Yes, that's what I was thinking? Didn't they go and retrieve the fridge? :conf:

[Marsh.]

Yes, that's what I was thinking? Didn't they go and retrieve the fridge? :conf:

Good point.

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes that's what I don't get,it wasn't their fridge so surely you would tell the site owners and they would deal with it,why would you feel the need to replace one:conf:

You wouldnt ,and think on McCanns claimed they didnt have any credit cards :huh:

[chuff me dizzy]

Didn't even replace, just got rid. Why?

"Ooh, my daughter is missing. I need to dump this fridge, right now." Just something else that's completely incongrouous.

Really?

Gerry wrote it in his diary he was calmly writing every day(now whooshed) ,instead of even looking once for his child

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

they need to look again at Gerry and Kate McCann, something stinks and always has done. Burglars my arse.
Thought this at the beginning but if it was them would they keep putting themselves in the public or just let it slowly fade away.

I don't even remember how the world got involved when girls go missing all the time to be honest.

[Z]

My opinion of them always sways... sometimes I think they're suspicious and the only reason they've gotten away with being found out so far is because they're intelligent medical professionals who, considering their jobs, probably know how best to deal with a dead body better than most people and just like Mark Bridger (April Jones case), managed to get rid of the body without anyone ever finding it. Unlike him though, they weren't deranged psychopaths; but rather panicked parents who had time to think about what to do next because no one was going to raise the alarm until they did so they had time to get rid of the body calmly (well, as calmly as you could possibly be if your daughter had died and it was down to your negligence...) - which explains the cold, unemotional media presence because they haven't gone through the emotional shock of her disappearing and fearing the worst; they already know what happened to her and that's why they were straight into the fund raising and setting up all these smoke screens... why would you become media centric and be setting up fundraisers instead of hoping, praying and assuming the police would get her back...

On the other hand, why should they be judged for not acting in the "proper" way? Has anyone here ever had their child go missing and never come back? Who are we to assume they're guilty just because Kate isn't the mother in constant tears and Gerry isn't the stoic-but-fighting-back-tears father comforting her and pleading for her return like we've seen in the past in other missing child cases? Everyone is different and maybe they just felt broken and defeated from the moment it happened because they felt guilty for leaving them and this ended up happening? Even if they don't admit it publicly, they must be absolutely heartbroken and feel full of guilt at what happened - it wouldn't have happened if they'd been there or had taken Madeleine and the babies to dinner; so many things they could and should have done to prevent this from happening, they must find it hard to sleep at night - of course that's going to take its toll on you and affect the way you react to things emotionally; I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them were completely depressed and unable to express the emotions that other parents of missing children have expressed in the past... what could Holly and Jessica's parents have done? What could Ben Needham's family have done? What about April Jones' parents? They can't blame themselves for what happened; the McCanns can and plenty of people have done it for them even if they don't...

[CaudleHalbard]

A friend of mine wrote to Operation Grange and amongst other things suggested that they should get Kate McCann to answer the 48 questions she failed to answer for the Portuguese police. He has received an acknowledgement but as yet no substantive response.

[Vicky.]

I dont mind about the 48 questions particularly, some were quite loaded. Though many of them were perfectly fine..and I dont see why she wouldnt answer those ones.

But I do NOT understand why the parents were never suspects here. Their word that it was an abduction was just taken. Its dodgy as hell, as most cases involving children involve parents/close family/friends. I just dont understand how they were written off so quickly. To do a real investigation at this point would mean questioning the parents, the friends, ad going over every damn thing with a fine tooth comb, no matter how uncomfortable this makes people. Yes, chances are nothing would come of it, but it needs to be done.

http://www.disruptiveleadership.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/elephant-in-the-room.jpg


Making up burglars who happen to take children instead of valuables is not what should be happening at this point 6 years and 10m+ on.

[Z]

I dont mind about the 48 questions particularly, some were quite loaded. Though many of them were perfectly fine..and I dont see why she wouldnt answer those ones.

But I do NOT understand why the parents were never suspects here. Their word that it was an abduction was just taken. Its dodgy as hell, as most cases involving children involve parents/close family/friends. I just dont understand how they were written off so quickly. To do a real investigation at this point would mean questioning the parents, the friends, ad going over every damn thing with a fine tooth comb, no matter how uncomfortable this makes people. Yes, chances are nothing would come of it, but it needs to be done.

http://www.disruptiveleadership.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/elephant-in-the-room.jpg


Making up burglars who happen to take children instead of valuables is not what should be happening at this point 6 years and 10m+ on.

I completely agree. I take issue with the McCanns refusing to co-operate with the police. Some of those questions were brutal, yes, but don't they understand that the police have to explore every avenue to try and find out what happened to her? The police need to be able to rule them out as suspects in order to narrow down their enquiries; by not playing ball the McCanns have held up the investigation and have ensured that any chance of finding Madeleine went from possible to bordering on impossible. Or perhaps they do understand perfectly well that by refusing to cooperate, they make it difficult for the police to solve the crime because there are just too many possibilities that lead to more possibilities for the police to ever realistically solve this in a reasonable amount of time - maybe they're hoping that by the time the police make any sort of breakthrough, the leads will be dead anyway.

I just can't understand why a mother who has lost her child would do anything other than fully cooperate with the police. Wouldn't you do whatever you could to try and get your child back? Then again, regardless of her guilt, I'm not surprised. It's just yet another example of their selfish behaviour - she'd rather not answer the questions and wallow in how offended she is that they would ask her such questions than answer them and help the police help her get her daughter back. How can she be so selfish that she doesn't want to help them help her out? Can't she see that the questions aren't being asked to offend her, they're being asked to narrow down the enquiries? But this is a woman who was happy to leave her children alone in an unlocked holiday apartment out of her sight, so why am I at all surprised?

[CaudleHalbard]

The only "evidence" that the girl was abducted is Kate and Gerry's word for it. Nothing else whatsoever . It is right and proper they should answer all questions - however discomfiting it may be.

It seems the McCanns were more interested in becoming media celebs and going all around Europe meeting important people.

[Niamh.]

To me the whole thing was circumstantial, very far fetched or grasping at straws..

I didn't get the Freemason thing at all, the photoshopped pic was just stupid, gerry being a paedo was really quite awful, a British government cover up was unbelievable... It just wasn't convincing at all.

There was a statement from a friends (presumably former now) who went on holiday with them the year previous who said she heard Gerry and one of the other men who went on holiday with them (and was also there in Portugal) making questionable comments about their daughters.

[Z]

I'm surprised that there are people who don't think the McCanns were negligent for leaving their kids alone so they could go out for dinner - yeah it's true that some parents do stuff like that all the time but I don't know how many would do that on holiday in a foreign country, would leave the apartment unlocked and would do that to children as young as theirs - I can understand leaving an 8 year old alone in the house while you nip to the shops to get bread and milk more than I can understand leaving two babies and a toddler alone for a few hours while you go have your dinner and some drinks with your friends; it's an innocent mistake to make but it is still a mistake.

[Novo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26646885

[Z]

Wonder where this will lead... nowhere, probably

[Vicky.]

Its just such a load of crap. The amount of money thrown at this case and they are still hunting down random passers by. Look closer at the group..

[Vicky.]

Wonder where this will lead... nowhere, probably

At least it sounds the Portuguese are heading oin the right direction. They have a totally different line of enquiry to SY. SY seem so incompetent in this whole thing IMO

That said, this might be more bollocks put out there by Clarence Mitchell...like the 3 burglars story ;)

[Novo]

Wonder why they have only just been looking to seek him now though, the background of the person speaks for itself

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm surprised that there are people who don't think the McCanns were negligent for leaving their kids alone so they could go out for dinner - yeah it's true that some parents do stuff like that all the time but I don't know how many would do that on holiday in a foreign country, would leave the apartment unlocked and would do that to children as young as theirs - I can understand leaving an 8 year old alone in the house while you nip to the shops to get bread and milk more than I can understand leaving two babies and a toddler alone for a few hours while you go have your dinner and some drinks with your friends; it's an innocent mistake to make but it is still a mistake.

The focus is on a man who abducted a child and not on parents - your assumption is that there is a paedo round every corner.

[Vicky.]

Wonder why they have only just been looking to seek him now though, the background of the person speaks for itself

They are getting desperate to find someone to pin it on.

Or its more bullshine from Clarence to take the public attention away from the real investigation.

Hoping its the second.

The libel trial still hasnt resumed either..which I find quite interesting given that it was meant to be concluded in January..

[Nedusa]

More of the same Non news we have been getting on this case for months now. Someone is desparate to keep this story in the News.

I hope this case is resolved but I feel sorry for all the other kidnap/abduction cases that make the news initially and then fade from the public gaze and and are often never heard of again.

[Crimson Dynamo]

More of the same Non news we have been getting on this case for months now. Someone is desparate to keep this story in the News.

I hope this case is resolved but I feel sorry for all the other kidnap/abduction cases that make the news initially and then fade from the public gaze and and are often never heard of again.

can you name a couple of UK ones?

[Vicky.]

can you name a couple of UK ones?

Thats the problem, they arent in the news enough to remember names. Whereas everyone knows Madeleines name...and the story. And isn't allowed to forget it, despite her most likely being dead anyway for the past 7 years.

Ben Needham is one though.

[Nedusa]

can you name a couple of UK ones?

Exactly..........my point !!!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Exactly..........my point !!!!


No I mean has there actually been any that did not make the news?

[Scarlett.]

can you name a couple of UK ones?

Missing People says 150,000 in the UK go missing each year, naming any one specific case would be pointless.

[Vicky.]

http://childalerts.org.uk/

Quite a few on there I have never heard of...

[Nedusa]

There are literally hundreds possibly thousands of people who go missing every year, most are found or return but some incl children are never found and because they are orphans or come from broken or uncaring homes, nobody cares. They probably never even make it onto the news.

So one case basically living on the front pages of various newspapers for years doesn't seem quite fair in my opinion.

[Josy]

Is it just me that thinks every time this all goes a bit quiet, they do all they can to get it on the press again when 9/10 times it comes to nothing?

We will never find out what happened and she will never be found imo.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I mean is there an example of a uk child of the same age being abducted and its not made the main media?

[Josy]

I mean is there an example of a uk child of the same age being abducted and its not made the main media?

There is one who disappeared a long time ago and his parents campaign to get the case reopened iirc, I think his name was Ben something but I can't remember right now.

[sassysocks]

they need to look again at Gerry and Kate McCann, something stinks and always has done. Burglars my arse.

Complete bull in my opinion. Have you ever thought for one tiny moment how, on top of the suffering they have already gone through, how absolutely devastating it must be to be falsely accused of killing your own child. I think that, without any real evidence, that is a wicked thing to say.

[Josy]

Eurgh nm my last post, Vicky already posted about him.

[Josy]

Complete bull in my opinion. Have you ever thought for one tiny moment how, on top of the suffering they have already gone through, how absolutely devastating it must be to be falsely accused of killing your own child. I think that, without any real evidence, that is a wicked thing to say.

And I think without any much evidence suggesting otherwise people are entitled to suspect them if they want.

[sassysocks]

Is it just me that thinks every time this all goes a bit quiet, they do all they can to get it on the press again when 9/10 times it comes to nothing?

We will never find out what happened and she will never be found imo.

Desperate parents - wouldn't you want to go to the ends of the earth to find out what happened to your child?

[sassysocks]

And I think without any much evidence suggesting otherwise people are entitled to suspect them if they want.

People are entitled to do all manner of unpleasant things, doesn't make it right or pleasant to witness.

[Vicky.]

Desperate parents - wouldn't you want to go to the ends of the earth to find out what happened to your child?

You mean..including physically searching?

And possibly allowing tests to be done on your remaining kids to make sure they werent drugged?

And being devastated at the news that death had been smelt in your apartment, rather than immediately disregarding what the dogs allegedly found?

When SY disregard the main suspect (bundleman/Jane Tanners sighting) you would put the new suspect (Smith sighting) on your site immediately..so that people are searching for the correct person, surely?

I could go on, but fear its quite pointless. The McCanns do not come across as if they care very much. I know thats an awful thing to say, but their behaviour has been totally off from the get go.

[Kizzy]

can you name a couple of UK ones?

http://missingkids.co.uk/missing/

[Vicky.]

http://www.findmadeleine.com/campaigns/unidentified_people.html

This is the person everyone should be looking for btw...

[Josy]

Desperate parents - wouldn't you want to go to the ends of the earth to find out what happened to your child?

There was and is so much more they could have done or be doing, I don't need to post them again since they have already been posted throughout the threads and Vicky also posted a quick summary above.

[Vicky.]

Oh, also sitting on the Smith sighting for years and years. Who turns out to be the prime suspect? They did more damage to the search themselves than Amaral could ever have done tbh

Surely as a devastated parent you would use the 'fund' to follow up ALL leads, especially one in the right timeframe and area. Not totally ignore it?

[sassysocks]

I haven't either Vicky, I'm frankly shocked that anyone would think there was no neglect, especially when a creche was available for 10 euros.

Making a mistake, for which they have paid the worst price possible, does not make them child murderers. Half the problem is people see a case of neglect and want to play the blame game. They left their child, they must of killed her. It is insane.

[Vicky.]

Making a mistake, for which they have paid the worst price possible, does not make them child murderers. Half the problem is people see a case of neglect and want to play the blame game. They left their child, they must of killed her. It is insane.

Not everyone that thinks they should be done for neglect thinks they murdered her..even a lot of people who think the parents are totally innocent in it all still think they neglected their kids that night and should be punished for it.

Infact I dont think murder is a popular theory anyway. The most common from what I have seen has been accidental death.

IMO with all of the contradictions and holes in the story it is just ridiculous to believe anything 100%. Whether that be that the parents are innocent or guilty or hiding the body. There is massive room for doubt from either side tbh.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://missingkids.co.uk/missing/

That is not what i asked for. I am asking for an abducted UK child of a similar age who has gone missing and its not been major news?

[the truth]

the british police never solve anything. this is yet another PR load of nonsense to try and buy themselves good publicity. theyre utterly useless and unfit for purpose

[Livia]

That is not what i asked for. I am asking for an abducted UK child of a similar age who has gone missing and its not been major news?

That's an old chestnut that pops up on here from time to time. Never seen any evidence of it though...

I think the McCanns, despite an horrific Internet campaign of abuse, backed up by wafer-thin allegations and virtually no evidence at all, by people who know nothing of the case but what they've read online, have done really well to keep Madeleine's name in the press and the case in people's minds. I think many people in their position would have submitted and let the trolls move on to something else. Keeping this alive in the press isn't an easy thing to do, you have to be committed to it.

[sassysocks]

From the Mirror today:

"Madeleine McCann: Lawyer says 'Kate and Gerry McCann guilty of neglect for leaving her - and they weren't charged'

Gareth Morgan made the shocking claim while acting for a drink-driving mum who left her five-year-old son, who has Asperger syndrome, home alone at night

Yesterday a friend of Kate and Gerry McCann, both 45, blasted the comparison as “insensitive and plain wrong”.

The mum, 44, was caught after she crashed into a car at traffic lights. When the police went to her home they found the “extremely vulnerable” boy there.

The woman, who cannot be named, admitted neglect and was spared jail. But Mr Morgan pleaded for her freedom on the basis that Kate and Gerry McCann were never prosecuted for leaving daughter Madeleine alone in their holiday flat.

He told magistrates in Merthyr Tydfil, South Wales: “The parents of Madeleine McCann were guilty of child neglect for leaving their little girl much longer than my client. They were never prosecuted.

"The mother in this case is ashamed and remorseful at putting her young child at risk in the way she did.”

The McCanns left three-year-old Madeleine in their apartment in Portugal’s Praia da Luz while they dined with friends at a nearby tapas bar in May 2007.




What on earth would be the point of charging a couple who had already paid the ultimate price for their 'mistake'? It would be inhuman. The two cases are not comparable as the other woman mentioned did not lose her child. The McCanns have been punished enough and will pay for the rest of their lives. Baying for blood won't make it any worse for them.

[sassysocks]

That's an old chestnut that pops up on here from time to time. Never seen any evidence of it though...

I think the McCanns, despite an horrific Internet campaign of abuse, backed up by wafer-thin allegations and virtually no evidence at all, by people who know nothing of the case but when they've read online, have done really well to keep Madeleine's name in the press and the case in people's minds. I think many people in their position would have submitted and let the trolls move on to something else. Keeping this alive in the press isn't an easy thing to do, you have to be committed to it.

I couldn't agree more.

[Me. I Am Salman]

What on earth would be the point of charging a couple who had already paid the ultimate price for their 'mistake'? It would be inhuman. The two cases are not comparable as the other woman mentioned did not lose her child. The McCanns have been punished enough and will pay for the rest of their lives. Baying for blood won't make it any worse for them.

I can't take you seriously when your username is sassysocks

[sassysocks]

I can't take you seriously when your username is sassysocks

What bit don't you like, the sass or the socks?

[Brother Leon]

What on earth would be the point of charging a couple who had already paid the ultimate price for their 'mistake'? It would be inhuman. The two cases are not comparable as the other woman mentioned did not lose her child. The McCanns have been punished enough and will pay for the rest of their lives. Baying for blood won't make it any worse for them.

I guarantee you if this was Tracey from Peckham estate that done the exact same thing they did in Peckham then she loses her other kids/kid for being "unfit mother". People lose their kids over much less.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That's an old chestnut that pops up on here from time to time. Never seen any evidence of it though...

I think the McCanns, despite an horrific Internet campaign of abuse, backed up by wafer-thin allegations and virtually no evidence at all, by people who know nothing of the case but what they've read online, have done really well to keep Madeleine's name in the press and the case in people's minds. I think many people in their position would have submitted and let the trolls move on to something else. Keeping this alive in the press isn't an easy thing to do, you have to be committed to it.

agreed, the hate is because they are middle class and people just dont like them

[sassysocks]

I guarantee you if this was Tracey from Peckham estate that done the exact same thing they did in Peckham then she loses her other kids/kid for being "unfit mother". People lose their kids over much less.

That is another part of the problem - some have turned it into a class issue.

Just because they have money and possibly connections does not been they shouldn't use that advantage to find their daughter. Anyone would. All they can think about in that situation is their daughter and finding her, it is perfectly natural, it doesn't mean they don't care about other children. They are not going to abandon their search, with all the publicity, because others say it isn't fair.

One thing I think we can be sure of is they won't leave their children alone again. I wonder if the other woman mentioned as a comparison will drink and drive again whilst leaving her young child at home alone. She certainly didn't pay the same price.

[Marsh.]

agreed, the hate is because they are middle class and people just dont like them

It's a bit more complex than that.

I don't agree with all of the people so adamant that they are guilty of something as though they know more than anyone. But there is quite a lot wrong and contradicting about the McCann's and it is fair to say if they weren't middle class doctors but unemployed people from a council estate then they'd have been treated a hell of a lot differently if it had come out that they'd abandoned the kids to go on a night of drinking.

Not necessarily the McCann's fault but our society's that we have such double standards.

[the truth]

agreed, the hate is because they are middle class and people just dont like them

wrong its because 1) the girl was taken due to their negligence 2) they seemed to do this all the time 3) because so much public time and monies was spent on this case compared to the 100s of other kids who disappear every year and never get a fraction of this time and money spent on finding them. its totally unfair.

[the truth]

That is another part of the problem - some have turned it into a class issue.

Just because they have money and possibly connections does not been they shouldn't use that advantage to find their daughter. Anyone would. All they can think about in that situation is their daughter and finding her, it is perfectly natural, it doesn't mean they don't care about other children. They are not going to abandon their search, with all the publicity, because others say it isn't fair.

One thing I think we can be sure of is they won't leave their children alone again. I wonder if the other woman mentioned as a comparison will drink and drive again whilst leaving her young child at home alone. She certainly didn't pay the same price.

leaving 3 very young kids on their own in an unlocked apartment abroad is mental

[Livia]

agreed, the hate is because they are middle class and people just dont like them

I know... and because no one on here with kids has ever left them alone, or done anything stupid at all. I mean, I watched my brother throw my niece up into the air when she wast little, just playing with her... and crack her head on the ceiling. He said to me afterwards, what a riciculous thing to do... luckily she was fine be we all had a sharp intake of breath. When we were kids my parents would leave us asleep to eat outside with friends, checking on us regularly... maybe my parents are monsters. But I doubt it.

[the truth]

I know... and because no one on here with kids has ever left them alone, or done anything stupid at all. I mean, I watched my brother throw my niece up into the air when she wast little, just playing with her... and crack her head on the ceiling. He said to me afterwards, what a riciculous thing to do... luckily she was fine be we all had a sharp intake of breath. When we were kids my parents would leave us asleep to eat outside with friends, checking on us regularly... maybe my parents are monsters. But I doubt it.

yeah but they were leaving these 3 very young kids alone every night abroad in an unlocked apartment? thats absurd

[Ammi]

It's a bit more complex than that.

I don't agree with all of the people so adamant that they are guilty of something as though they know more than anyone. But there is quite a lot wrong and contradicting about the McCann's and it is fair to say if they weren't middle class doctors but unemployed people from a council estate then they'd have been treated a hell of a lot differently if it had come out that they'd abandoned the kids to go on a night of drinking.

Not necessarily the McCann's fault but our society's that we have such double standards.


..I totally agree with this, I think the McCanns were completely wrong to leave their children alone in a holiday apartment while they went out, they were as wrong as anyone else would be regardless of who they were, as a parent I find it an astonishing thing to do with children so young...but I don't believe that their 'neglect' as parents assumes anything else sinister that they may have done...

[the truth]

..I totally agree with this, I think the McCanns were completely wrong to leave their children alone in a holiday apartment while they went out, they were as wrong as anyone else would be regardless of who they were, as a parent I find it an astonishing thing to do with children so young...but I don't believe that their 'neglect' as parents assumes anything else sinister that they may have done...

im absolutely amazed the social services didnt get involved. it was gross negligence to say the least

[Ammi]

im absolutely amazed the social services didnt get involved. it was gross negligence to say the least

..yeah I do agree they are guilty of that and because the search for Madeleine took priority after her disappearance, that appears to have been completely overlooked but would the same have happened if they weren't middle class doctors..(unless there were investigations by social services..?..)

[Crimson Dynamo]

..yeah I do agree they are guilty of that and because the search for Madeleine took priority after her disappearance, that appears to have been completely overlooked but would the same have happened if they weren't middle class doctors..(unless there were investigations by social services..?..)

oh brother :suspect:

[the truth]

oh brother :suspect:

what?

[Marsh.]

oh brother :suspect:

It's a valid point.

You're saying that 2 young parents from a council estate leaving 3 children alone to go out drinking in a foreign country wouldn't be treated differently?

[the truth]

It's a valid point.

You're saying that 2 young parents from a council estate leaving 3 children alone to go out drinking in a foreign country wouldn't be treated differently?

yes I concur , the actual classism here is in favor of the mccanns and against the lower classes who would be hung drawn and quartered if they had been that neglectful

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's a valid point.

You're saying that 2 young parents from a council estate leaving 3 children alone to go out drinking in a foreign country wouldn't be treated differently?


I disagree with your summary of what happened I am afraid

[Marsh.]

I disagree with your summary of what happened I am afraid

You mean that 2 parents left their children alone in a foreign country to have a night of drinking?

Which bit did I get wrong?

[Crimson Dynamo]

You mean that 2 parents left their children alone in a foreign country to have a night of drinking?

Which bit did I get wrong?

All of it.

[Jesus.]

yes I concur , the actual classism here is in favor of the mccanns and against the lower classes who would be hung drawn and quartered if they had been that neglectful

Well, the class system does exist to sort the wheat from the chaff.

[Marsh.]

All of it.

By all means go ahead and correct the sentence.

[the truth]

I disagree with your summary of what happened I am afraid

marshs summary was 100% accurate

[the truth]

Well, the class system does exist to sort the wheat from the chaff.

another non contribution from yourself, if only you were as funny as you think you are

[sassysocks]

another non contribution from yourself, if only you were as funny as you think you are

There is evidence to suggest he has a point. I will say no more.

[Crimson Dynamo]

marshs summary was 100% accurate

Madeleine and her younger siblings had been left asleep at 20:30 in the ground-floor apartment while her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, dined with their travelling companions in a restaurant 50 metres (160 ft) away. The parents checked on the children throughout the evening until Madeleine's mother discovered she was missing at 22:00.

They did nothing wrong and did what millions of parents would do and do do every day of the year. What was wrong was that they were targeted by an abductor.

The fact that you would not have done that (if you had children) is neither here nor there. For all you know the child could have been nabbed in the supermarket the next day, or on the beach.

[sassysocks]

Madeleine and her younger siblings had been left asleep at 20:30 in the ground-floor apartment while her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, dined with their travelling companions in a restaurant 50 metres (160 ft) away. The parents checked on the children throughout the evening until Madeleine's mother discovered she was missing at 22:00.

They did nothing wrong and did what millions of parents would do and do do every day of the year. What was wrong was that they were targeted by an abductor.

The fact that you would not have done that (if you had children) is neither here nor there. For all you know the child could have been nabbed in the supermarket the next day, or on the beach.

I tend to agree with that. I'm not sure why the door was unlocked, it should have been locked, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Ammi]

..I don't agree that leaving children of that age alone in a holiday apartment is what an 'average' person does or something that millions of people do, it doesn't matter that they checked them at intervals, the children were alone for a portion of time and it takes seconds/minutes for someone to abduct them or for them to have an accident...

[Crimson Dynamo]

I tend to agree with that. I'm not sure why the door was unlocked, it should have been locked, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

perhaps in case of fire or it did not have a lock

[Crimson Dynamo]

..I don't agree that leaving children of that age alone in a holiday apartment is what an 'average' person does or something that millions of people do, it doesn't matter that they checked them at intervals, the children were alone for a portion of time and it takes seconds/minutes for someone to abduct them or for them to have an accident...

yes and it can happen on a crowded beach, in a shop, in a street...


abductions happen in all sorts of circumstances and the 1 thread that runs through all is a dedicated abductor

it takes but a few seconds to snatch a child as in ALL abduction cases. Most happen in the street and involving cars.

[Marsh.]

Madeleine and her younger siblings had been left asleep at 20:30 in the ground-floor apartment while her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, dined with their travelling companions in a restaurant 50 metres (160 ft) away. The parents checked on the children throughout the evening until Madeleine's mother discovered she was missing at 22:00.

They did nothing wrong and did what millions of parents would do and do do every day of the year. What was wrong was that they were targeted by an abductor.

The fact that you would not have done that (if you had children) is neither here nor there. For all you know the child could have been nabbed in the supermarket the next day, or on the beach.

There was everything wrong with it.

Their apartment was accessible from the street via a blind spot they couldn't see from the restaurant. A door was left unlocked for anyone to get inside. That's completely irresponsible when all of your children are so small.

Whether other people would have done it doesn't make it right.

[Ammi]

..so you would consider that there may be a fire and leave the door unlocked as a precaution and trust a 3 year old to get herself and her siblings out safely if it should happen...

[Crimson Dynamo]

There was everything wrong with it.

Their apartment was accessible from the street via a blind spot they couldn't see from the restaurant. A door was left unlocked for anyone to get inside. That's completely irresponsible when all of your children are so small.

Whether other people would have done it doesn't make it right.

It was not illegal and millions leave children to play out of sight in streets and gardens.

Do you ever leave your children out of your sight for any length of time?

[Marsh.]

yes and it can happen on a crowded beach, in a shop, in a street...

Not really the point.

There's a difference between having your child snatched from you and giving the abductors a an easy opportunity to do it.

[Marsh.]

It was not illegal and millions leave children to play out of sight in streets and gardens.

Do you ever leave your children out of your sight for any length of time?

Who said it was illegal? But if Maddie was found to have had an accident whilst left without adult supervision it would be a different story.

[Crimson Dynamo]

..so you would consider that there may be a fire and leave the door unlocked as a precaution and trust a 3 year old to get herself and her siblings out safely if it should happen...

better than locking it so that staff could get access - who knows what the thought process was but as responsible parents they made that call based on circumstances at that time

[Ammi]

yes and it can happen on a crowded beach, in a shop, in a street...


abductions happen in all sorts of circumstances and the 1 thread that runs through all is a dedicated abductor

it takes but a few seconds to snatch a child as in ALL abduction cases. Most happen in the street and involving cars.

..yeah, abductions can happen anywhere which is why parents are cautious to know that their children are always in view, so leaving them alone in an apartment would seem quite a careless thing to do...