Praying?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Obviously praying does not work because murmuring to yourself will never change anything:nono:

Praying to your god of choice is also futile as the many and various gods are both not real and useless as stopping any misery that the world throws up.

Yet we still hear about thoughts and prayers and pray this and pray that. Yes Its a hangover from a superstitious earlier time but how do you feel about it?

It seems to more now mean "thinking about something, perhaps with many others"?

[King Gizzard]

If it gives people hope and strength in hard times then it's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, even if it doesn't do anything. Don't see that much wrong with it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If it gives people hope and strength in hard times then it's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, even if it doesn't do anything. Don't see that much wrong with it.

How does it do that?

[Roy Mars III]

i am a foxhole prayer

[AnnieK]

If it gives people hope and strength in hard times then it's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, even if it doesn't do anything. Don't see that much wrong with it.

Agreed....for some it gives them solace and peace. Everyone deals with their issues in their own way. Their beliefs are exactly that, THEIRS and shouldn't concern anyone else. Calling people deranged for doing so is extremely offensive.

[Kate!]

The second part of your post is a little offensive, hmmm. I'm not actively religious, don't attend church, but I do believe in a God, and have said informal prayers at certain times in my life.

If it gives people hope and strength in hard times then it's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, even if it doesn't do anything. Don't see that much wrong with it.

Exactly this.

[arista]

If it gives people hope and strength in hard times then it's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, even if it doesn't do anything. Don't see that much wrong with it.



Yes for those at that Level in Life.


In private - no problem

[Crimson Dynamo]

I guess its back to wishful thinking again for humans as we deal with lifes futility and briefness

[Crimson Dynamo]

I must be mentally deranged then as I believe in God AND pray:nono:

Yes but which god do you believe is and which ones dont you believe in?

there are hundreds

[Kazanne]

Yes but which god do you believe is and which ones dont you believe in?

there are hundreds

I believe in my God and that's a personal thing:hugesmile:

[Kyle]

Personally I wouldn't think of praying to a supposed entity that allegedly built this sh*thole of a planet but each to their own.

[Josy]

Some people can succeed in life without faith and some can't, some people turn to faith at bad times in their lives and some don't. Everyone has different outlooks on life so as long it's not personally affecting you in an negative way then my opinion is give them peace to do what they want with their own lives.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Some people can succeed in life without faith and some can't, some people turn to faith at bad times in their lives and some don't. Everyone has different outlooks on life so as long it's not personally affecting you in an negative way then my opinion is give them peace to do what they want with their own lives.

As long as we dont have this in schools or politics or medicine i dont think anyone cares.

[Kazanne]

Personally I wouldn't think of praying to a supposed entity that allegedly built this sh*thole of a planet but each to their own.

Don't you think it's mainly down to humans that it is a ****hole?

[Redway]

Religion in general is a crock of old sh*t (IMO) but dismissing a massive proportion of people as 'mentally deranged' just because they believe in things you don't is absurd and it's this kind of attitude that tarnishes the reputation of non-believers.

[Kyle]

Don't you think it's mainly down to humans that it is a ****hole?

Nope. I've seen my fair share of natural world shows to conclude that nature is one cruel bastard.

[Nedusa]

Agreed....for some it gives them solace and peace. Everyone deals with their issues in their own way. Their beliefs are exactly that, THEIRS and shouldn't concern anyone else. Calling people deranged for doing so is extremely offensive.

No it isn't it is the truth... Talking to an imaginary person is the first sign of mental illness and can quite comfortably be termed as deranged...

How you think think I am being offensive by stating the bleedin obvious is beyond me...!!!

[Josy]

No it isn't it is the truth... Talking to an imaginary person is the first sign of mental illness and can quite comfortably be termed as deranged...

How you think think I am being offensive by stating the bleedin obvious is beyond me...!!!

Its an offensive post.

It is possible to get your point across with being insulting to numerous people in the process.

[Redway]

No it isn't it is the truth... Talking to an imaginary person is the first sign of mental illness and can quite comfortably be termed as deranged...

How you think think I am being offensive by stating the bleedin obvious is beyond me...!!!

Nonsense. Offensive to people with mental health issues as well.

[Nedusa]

The second part of your post is a little offensive, hmmm. I'm not actively religious, don't attend church, but I do believe in a God, and have said informal prayers at certain times in my life.



Exactly this.

OK.... Perhaps using the word deranged is a little strong perhaps I should have said a bit confused or perturbed

[Nedusa]

I must be mentally deranged then as I believe in God AND pray:nono:

I believe in God as well, I also believe if I ask God a question it's a safe bet I ain't gonna get a reply any time soon...

So after the first thousand times you speak with God (pray) you realise he may be listening but he ain't talking

[Kyle]

@Nedusa I think your a breath of fresh air in the debate section and I like your Farscape avatar but I think you would be a quality poster if you tempered your tongue a little.

[Nedusa]

@Nedusa I think your a breath of fresh air in the debate section and I like your Farscape avatar but I think you would be a quality poster if you tempered your tongue a little.

Thanks Kyle, yes I think I jumped into this a bit too quick and am digging a hole for myself here.

For what it's worth NO I don't think people are mentally deranged for praying. It was a bad choice of language.

I should have just said it's not something I would do but each to their own.

No offence intended....!!

[Kyle]

Thanks Kyle, yes I think I jumped into this a bit too quick and am digging a hole for myself here.

For what it's worth NO I don't think people are mentally deranged for praying. It was a bad choice of language.

I should have just said it's not something I would do but each to their own

No offence intended....!!

No worries Nedusa. Totally agree.

[arista]

http://cdn0.cosmosmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/small.DAWKINS_The%20God%20Delusion.jpg

A Top Book
I Love

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://cdn0.cosmosmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/small.DAWKINS_The%20God%20Delusion.jpg

A Top Book
I Love

Its an excellent book.

[Marsh.]

You want a debate?

Try adding some balance to the opening post.

Simply slagging something/some people off doesn't work.

[arista]

Its an excellent book.


You Are Most Wise

[arista]

You want a debate?

Try adding some balance to the opening post.

Simply slagging something/some people off doesn't work.



You Need FoxNewsHD
for that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You want a debate?

Try adding some balance to the opening post.

Simply slagging something/some people off doesn't work.

It was neither. I asked for everyones opinion and stated mine. rather than mark the thread it would be better to state your view or move on.

[Livia]

I guess its back to wishful thinking again for humans as we deal with lifes futility and briefness

Imagine for a minute what would happen if someone of faith was on here saying the kind of sh1t that's been posted, about people of no faith. You'd feel pretty attacked if people suggested you're mentally ill simply because you don't share the same feelings. Atheists and agnostics sometimes feel it is their right to be ****ing rude just because they don't share a faith or understand what faith means. I couldn't care less what you believe in... although it's obviously nothing and considering the post above it doesn't exactly fill you with joy. But that's your call. As my faith is my call, and unless you can discuss it like a grown up without being insulting, you should probably keep your bile to yourself.

[Ninastar]

Praise Livia :worship:

[Jesus.]

Prayer - the art of feeling good about doing nothing.

Nothing wrong with that if that's what someone wants to do with their life, and I have no desire to indulge in thought crime to prevent it.

The world is a ****** of a place, where the ones you love the most are capable of causing you the most pain. I'm an anti-theist, but in the words of John Lennon - whatever gets you through the night.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Imagine for a minute what would happen if someone of faith was on here saying the kind of sh1t that's been posted, about people of no faith. You'd feel pretty attacked if people suggested you're mentally ill simply because you don't share the same feelings. Atheists and agnostics sometimes feel it is their right to be ****ing rude just because they don't share a faith or understand what faith means. I couldn't care less what you believe in... although it's obviously nothing and considering the post above it doesn't exactly fill you with joy. But that's your call. As my faith is my call, and unless you can discuss it like a grown up without being insulting, you should probably keep your bile to yourself.

You are referring to a post that was removed by I believe Nathan in this thread. I have not called anyone mentally deranged or attacked anyone as you have suggested. In a previous thread I called the use of the term "gone to the angels" etc when a child dies as moronic because its mawkish guff and incorrect but that is again not what you have suggested. Which insult in this thread that I have made do you refer to?

I would add that one of the few lines of defense that religious people have left is to cry persecution when their lies are exposed. This is because they have had a very privileged position in the past and now that this has been removed they feel the effect of exposure.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Prayer - the art of feeling good about doing nothing.

Nothing wrong with that if that's what someone wants to do with their life, and I have no desire to indulge in thought crime to prevent it.

The world is a ****** of a place, where the ones you love the most are capable of causing you the most pain. I'm an anti-theist, but in the words of John Lennon - whatever gets you through the night.

I have no problems with it either buy when it is taught in schools as a fact then that is a BIG problem

[thesheriff443]

getting people to believe in something you cant prove or disprove, is a wonderful thing.
only in death will you be rewarded!, now that's a great line.

[Marsh.]

It was neither. I asked for everyones opinion and stated mine. rather than mark the thread it would be better to state your view or move on.

You're making presumptions on a very diverse group of people and insulting people who hold an opposing view/opinion to your own, that's not welcoming them and their opinions when you're pretty much attacking them from the start.

A course in people skills might be of use to you.

[Marsh.]

I have no problems with it either buy when it is taught in schools as a fact then that is a BIG problem

Which schools are these?

My religious education in school wasn't about drumming it into you and put across as fact (and I went to a catholic school). It was about all kinds of different religions, their origins, different cultures, the change in the world over time and had a dollop of philosophy thrown in.

All very valuable education if you are at all interested in things beyond your own life.

[Nedusa]

I was the poster who used the term " mentally deranged" for people who pray , my post was removed as offensive and I later posted that I should not have used that language as it has caused offence where no offence was intended.

As I said later each to their own but praying is not for me.

On a more general note I wonder if we can have a robust debate of this subject as it is quote emotive and views on both sides can become inflamed and slightly hysterical as we saw a few posts ago.

Better to let this subject lie as nobody is going to change their views on the back of a few choice words on an Internet forum....!!!!

[Marsh.]

I was the poster who used the term " mentally deranged" for people who pray , my post was removed as offensive and I later posted that I should not have used that language as it has caused offence where no offence was intended.

:conf: I am quite baffled how calling people mentally deranged did not intend offence?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Which schools are these?

My religious education in school wasn't about drumming it into you and put across as fact (and I went to a catholic school). It was about all kinds of different religions, their origins, different cultures, the change in the world over time and had a dollop of philosophy thrown in.

All very valuable education if you are at all interested in things beyond your own life.

You went to a catholic school and you were not taught that prayer worked, that hell existed and that you will be punished for your sins?

[Crimson Dynamo]

You're making presumptions on a very diverse group of people and insulting people who hold an opposing view/opinion to your own, that's not welcoming them and their opinions when you're pretty much attacking them from the start.

A course in people skills might be of use to you.


I note your deliberate irony for comic effect :hugesmile:

[Nedusa]

:conf: I am quite baffled how calling people mentally deranged did not intend offence?

I'd had a long day and I hadn't engaged my brain before typing, of course the term is offensive I should have used different language as I explained earlier...!!!

[Marsh.]

You went to a catholic school and you were not taught that prayer worked, that hell existed and that you will be punished for your sins?

No. We were given "Religious education" which educated on the origins of religion, how they evolved, different religious cultures from all over the world etc.

All very valuable education for anyone interested in learning about things and people outside of their own world view.

The fact that you automatically presume religious education is about trying to drum beliefs into people and force them to believe unprovable facts just shows how ridiculous your points are.

[Marsh.]

I note your deliberate irony for comic effect :hugesmile:

No irony in my post.

I didn't make presumptions about you and commented on what you posted in the OP.

[Jezzy]

What do you believe in,Catweazle? Apart from the hideousness and irredeemability of existence. I'd call you a Nihilist, but I don't know how far considered your thoughts are. You tend to spout vox pop.

Surely everyone needs something to believe in?

[Livia]

You are referring to a post that was removed by I believe Nathan in this thread. I have not called anyone mentally deranged or attacked anyone as you have suggested. In a previous thread I called the use of the term "gone to the angels" etc when a child dies as moronic because its mawkish guff and incorrect but that is again not what you have suggested. Which insult in this thread that I have made do you refer to?

I would add that one of the few lines of defense that religious people have left is to cry persecution when their lies are exposed. This is because they have had a very privileged position in the past and now that this has been removed they feel the effect of exposure.

I don't feel the need to either defend or explain myself. Your whole tone is aggressive, and has been previously on other threads any time religion is mentioned. I don't feel people of my particular faith have ever had a privileged position, nor do I feel particularly exposed now. I'm not quite sure what kind of debate you're hoping to have when all you do is insult.

[Jezzy]

No. We were given "Religious education" which educated on the origins of religion, how they evolved, different religious cultures from all over the world etc.

All very valuable education for anyone interested in learning about things and people outside of their own world view.

And this kind of comparative religious teaching is a huge benefit to people when considering their own philosophies.

[Marsh.]

And this kind of comparative religious teaching is a huge benefit to people when considering their own philosophies.

Exactly.

Opening your mind and being less judgemental is hugely beneficial. Imagine what world we'd live in if all the great inventors/philosophers just sat back and said "Oh, that's impossible. What a load of garbage."

[Jezzy]

Exactly.

Opening your mind and being less judgemental is hugely beneficial. Imagine what world we'd live in if all the great inventors/philosophers just sat back and said "Oh, that's impossible. What a load of garbage."

Oh god, 08marsh, if only people would let themselves do exactly that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't feel the need to either defend or explain myself. Your whole tone is aggressive, and has been previously on other threads any time religion is mentioned. I don't feel people of my particular faith have ever had a privileged position, nor do I feel particularly exposed now. I'm not quite sure what kind of debate you're hoping to have when all you do is insult.

If you dont want to defend or explain your position then i can see no reason for you in this thread. As I stated the persecution angle is a card that can only be played once.

[Jezzy]

If you dont want to defend or explain your position then i can see no reason for you in this thread. As I stated the persecution angle is a card that can only be played once.

Yet trolls can play their cards wherever and whenever they choose? Kiss my arse.

[Kyle]

What do you believe in,Catweazle? Apart from the hideousness and irredeemability of existence. I'd call you a Nihilist, but I don't know how far considered your thoughts are. You tend to spout vox pop.

Surely everyone needs something to believe in?

Are you saying everyone needs religion or spirituality? Can we not function on logic?

[Jezzy]

Are you saying everyone needs religion or spirituality? Can we not function on logic?

Yeah, of course we can. But I personally think life would be a lot emptier if we didn't believe we could do something special. Not everyone that bases their life on "logic" is fully aware of the arguments to that logic, and in a fully balanced view, those arguments should be considered. Don't ever fall in to the trap of seeing anything in balck and white.

[Marsh.]

If you dont want to defend or explain your position then i can see no reason for you in this thread. As I stated the persecution angle is a card that can only be played once.

Why do people need to defend their personal beliefs?

Are you saying everyone needs religion or spirituality? Can we not function on logic?

Can we not open our minds to the possibility of things we can't see or touch?

As I said, would many of the great inventors have got anywhere if they sat back and thought "Oh, that's ridiculous and impossible"?

[Jezzy]

Why do people need to defend their personal beliefs?



Can we not open our minds to the possibility of things we can't see or touch?

As I said, would many of the great inventors have got anywhere if they sat back and thought "Oh, that's ridiculous and impossible"?


Was going to add something to this, actually I don't need to.

[Kazanne]

I wont even debate in here ,it's too hostile,all I know is what I believe is up to me,dont need to explain it so people can take the piss

[Kyle]

Why do people need to defend their personal beliefs?



Can we not open our minds to the possibility of things we can't see or touch?

As I said, would many of the great inventors have got anywhere if they sat back and thought "Oh, that's ridiculous and impossible"?

But wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of faith? By opening myself up to the small possibility that the one faith I've picked could be right but still maintaining it's probably not I still don't really have faith.

Do you have an open mind about all the other religions in the history of mankind?

[Marsh.]

But wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of faith? By opening myself up to the small possibility that the one faith I've picked could be right but still maintaining it's probably not I still don't really have faith.

Do you have an open mind about all the other religions in the history of mankind?

That wasn't my point.

My point was about not being completely closed off to the possibilities of things we can't see or touch.

Being educated on religion and other faiths opens your mind to other cultures and makes you a better and more educated person for it. Not necessarily to believe everything, that wasn't my point. We can be part of one culture and broaden our horizons by learning about others and take interest in others. You don't have to join/take part in, but you don't have to ignore it either.

It was also directed at some of the disparaging comments about believing in these things, they could open their minds to the possibilities. Not sit there and say they believe or to choose a religion but not be so narrow minded that they cast it all aside as though it's worthless.

Also, having faith or being in touch with spirituality doesn't always lead to an organised religion.

[Kyle]

Of course there will be things we don't know about and haven't discovered yet but what's the point of conjecture? I'm sure the possibilities are endless if the person has the imagination to match it.

I just disagreed with the principle that everyone needs to believe in something that cannot be scientifically nailed down.

Maybe you should ask people of faith are they open to the possibility that they could be wrong.

[Nedusa]

I don't have a problem with religion which I consider a personal thing like spirituality something that shapes and defines our outlook on life. Different religions are just different interpretations of this. Providing these choices enrich our lives and the lives of people we meet then fine.

What I do have a problem with however is organised religion as it is responsible for innumerable crimes against humanity...

But that's another thread for another time...!!!

[Ammi]

I don't have a problem with religion which I consider a personal thing like spirituality something that shapes and defines our outlook on life. Different religions are just different interpretations of this. Providing these choices enrich our lives and the lives of people we meet then fine.
What I do have a problem with however is organised religion as it is responsible for innumerable crimes against humanity...

But that's another thread for another time...!!!


..yeah, that's exactly how I feel about it, Nedusa...I'm not really religious as such but I think that for some, it's a good thing because they're believing in something that makes them better people and want to be better people.....

[Me. I Am Salman]

Why do some atheists expect everyone to act and think like them?

[Marsh.]

I just disagreed with the principle that everyone needs to believe in something that cannot be scientifically nailed down.

Maybe you should ask people of faith are they open to the possibility that they could be wrong.

No, no, no. I never said everyone needs to believe in something.

I said people shouldn't be so closed minded as to call someone who believes in something beyond human comprehension mentally ill or whatever (not you personally but you get my point). There was a time computers and mobile phones would've been thought of as magic after all.

Being open minded doesn't mean find something to believe in or believe in everything, it means don't dismiss something because it's beyond human comprehension as many things have been in the past.

I don't need to ask people of faith anything, my point was directed at your point is all. I would say someone of faith has already taken into account the possibility of them being wrong but has "faith" hence the word. The very fact what they believe in may not be able to be proven is proof enough it's been taken into consideration but they still have faith in it.

Science isn't the be all and end all of life.

[Livia]

If you dont want to defend or explain your position then i can see no reason for you in this thread. As I stated the persecution angle is a card that can only be played once.

I see no reason to explain myself to you because you're not really interested in my point of view. Your mind is firmly closed. And frankly, continuing claim that I am playing the persecution card is unacceptable and rude and says rather more about you than it says about me.

[Jezzy]

But wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of faith? By opening myself up to the small possibility that the one faith I've picked could be right but still maintaining it's probably not I still don't really have faith.

Do you have an open mind about all the other religions in the history of mankind?

I think, and certainly to me, the faith that I have picked (and it's not anything remotely organised) is the right one for me - I may even be in a minority of one, and I have no doubt about it. If you look at many religions, they start to have a common thread.

Meh to prophets, tbh....they only interpret. (In my opinion!) I'll interpret for myself, based on surprisingly common principles.

[Kyle]

No, no, no. I never said everyone needs to believe in something.

I said people shouldn't be so closed minded as to call someone who believes in something beyond human comprehension mentally ill or whatever (not you personally but you get my point). There was a time computers and mobile phones would've been thought of as magic after all.

I don't need to ask people of faith anything, my point was directed at your point is all. I would say someone of faith has already taken into account the possibility of them being wrong but has "faith" hence the word. The very fact what they believe in may not be able to be proven is proof enough it's been taken into consideration but they still have faith in it.

I know but you attached yourself to my reply to the person who actually did make the statement that everybody needs to believe in something. That's why I was In this thread in the first place not to challenge people's personal beliefs.

[Kyle]

I think, and certainly to me, the faith that I have picked (and it's not anything remotely organised) is the right one for me - I may even be in a minority of one, and I have no doubt about it. If you look at many religions, they start to have a common thread.

Meh to prophets, tbh....they only interpret. (In my opinion!) I'll interpret for myself, based on surprisingly common principles.

What is your faith if you don't mind asking. (I'm not looking for confrontation btw I'm genuinely curious)

[Jezzy]

What is your faith if you don't mind asking. (I'm not looking for confrontation btw I'm genuinely curious)

Haha, ok, it is particular to me though, and it's quite possible you will think i'm entirely mad. You can PM if you prefer :P

[Kyle]

Haha, ok, it is particular to me though, and it's quite possible you will think i'm entirely mad. You can PM if you prefer :P

Sure Jezzy, whatever's best for you. I'll send one right away.

[Shaun]

Is there a term for "atheist who really cannot be arsed with telling others what to believe"? Because Ricky Gervais and threads like this are just really damaging atheism and making it seem so ****ing pedantic

[Me. I Am Salman]

^ that a the only type of atheism which should exist

[Livia]

Is there a term for "atheist who really cannot be arsed with telling others what to believe"? Because Ricky Gervais and threads like this are just really damaging atheism and making it seem so ****ing pedantic

Sense.

[Ammi]

That wasn't my point.

My point was about not being completely closed off to the possibilities of things we can't see or touch.

Being educated on religion and other faiths opens your mind to other cultures and makes you a better and more educated person for it. Not necessarily to believe everything, that wasn't my point. We can be part of one culture and broaden our horizons by learning about others and take interest in others. You don't have to join/take part in, but you don't have to ignore it either.

It was also directed at some of the disparaging comments about believing in these things, they could open their minds to the possibilities. Not sit there and say they believe or to choose a religion but not be so narrow minded that they cast it all aside as though it's worthless.

Also, having faith or being in touch with spirituality doesn't always lead to an organised religion.


..I've really enjoyed your posts in this thread, Marsh and agree with most of what you say..I think that a lot of 'religious' people are very open minded in that they can believe in something that has no explanation because not everything in life can be explained..that's why it's 'belief' and belief can be a belief in anything and it's only a bad thing...(particularly in religion..)..when someone in that religion misuses it because they choose to pick out any negatives in it and just concentrate on those, which is being extreme...but they aren't the 'average/typical' religious person, that's why they're called extremists, they choose to put aside most of the good and positive teachings in their religion but there are people without any religion at all who do that anyway...


..personally I know some really good people who are religious and ok, maybe they don't take their religion to 'the letter of the law' and some people would say, you can't pick and choose the bits you want to...but I don't see anything wrong with that either because they're just taking their religion as an inspirational type thing to try to be a better person and also when they have fairly rubbish things happen in their lives, to help them get through those times because it gives them something to focus on, other than their emotional pain...how can that be bad/wrong..?...we all have to use 'crutches' at some point in our lives, whether it be friends/family/our job that we can focus on to distract and absorb us etc...for some people it's their religion and that's perfectly fine as well, it's as fine as anything else is...and not all people who have a faith, take the negative stuff and apply it to their lives because that wouldn't do anything but negative things to them..what they want and have and project onto others is something very positive in that they are quite often very good, admirable and generally caring and understanding people....

..anyway, I never get into religious discussions..this is my 'pet hate'..:laugh:...


..but yeah, good posts, Marsh...

[Jords]

I like the concept of 'praying' to channel inner strength and to think and support loved ones in time of need, if it helps an individual in their situation Im all for it.

In terms of for religion purposes, it doesnt affect me so I dont mind what people do.

[Ammi]

I like the concept of 'praying' to channel inner strength and to think and support loved ones in time of need, if it helps an individual in their situation Im all for it.

In terms of for religion purposes, it doesnt affect me so I dont mind what people do.

..why can't I say it with fewer words like this..:sad:...but yeah Jords, you're right as usual...

[Jords]

We love all your words Ammi :love:

[arista]

That wasn't my point.

My point was about not being completely closed off to the possibilities of things we can't see or touch.

Being educated on religion and other faiths opens your mind to other cultures and makes you a better and more educated person for it. Not necessarily to believe everything, that wasn't my point. We can be part of one culture and broaden our horizons by learning about others and take interest in others. You don't have to join/take part in, but you don't have to ignore it either.

It was also directed at some of the disparaging comments about believing in these things, they could open their minds to the possibilities. Not sit there and say they believe or to choose a religion but not be so narrow minded that they cast it all aside as though it's worthless.

Also, having faith or being in touch with spirituality doesn't always lead to an organised religion.




Lets put it flat on the table Marsh
Science proves there is No God
If some power started speaking out of the Sky
I would track the Speakers.



I can see why people follow a old fable book
But many of us are at a better Level in Life.

[Ammi]

..also lol..I'm not directing this at anyone on this forum specifically, but a lot of atheists do often seem to speak with a feeling of 'superiority' over someone who has a belief and be quite insulting because they feel that those people are weak, or delusional or whatever... basically saying things that can only aim to make people who do have faiths and beliefs feel fairly stupid and rubbish about themselves, which is not a very 'superior' quality in people who don't have those beliefs..where is the value in trying to make people feel bad about themselves..where is the superiority in that...that doesn't make them 'better people', but a lot of people who do have a faith, gain very positive things from that faith which does make them better people and also much happier people than if they didn't have it...

...that isn't all atheists obviously, but there are some very intolerant ones.... and yeah, there are also some vey intolerant religious people as well but both of those types of people are very extreme because they don't allow for any views or beliefs other than their own....


..ok, I'm done lol...

[Ammi]

We love all your words Ammi :love:

..LOL..:love:...

[Crimson Dynamo]

..also lol..I'm not directing this at anyone on this forum specifically, but a lot of atheists do often seem to speak with a feeling of 'superiority' over someone who has a belief and be quite insulting because they feel that those people are weak, or delusional or whatever... basically saying things that can only aim to make people who do have faiths and beliefs feel fairly stupid and rubbish about themselves, which is not a very 'superior' quality in people who don't have those beliefs..where is the value in trying to make people feel bad about themselves..where is the superiority in that...that doesn't make them 'better people', but a lot of people who do have a faith, gain very positive things from that faith which does make them better people and also much happier people than if they didn't have it...

...that isn't all atheists obviously, but there are some very intolerant ones.... and yeah, there are also some vey intolerant religious people as well but both of those types of people are very extreme because they don't allow for any views or beliefs other than their own....


..ok, I'm done lol...

If you look at atheism and religion as a sort of 50/50 pov then you would be correct but its not. Ask any religious person about another religion and you will see their attitude change, ask them about people who believe in say aliens or dragons and watch them change.

Belief in gods and such is so baseless and so obviously a product of an age where man could not explain much, where life ended quickly and people were fearful. Go to any forum where a debate on religion occurs and you will quickly see that religious people can offer no reason for their beliefs, usually you get the "why are you attacking me angle" or the "well it works for me and thats all I know" - the main reason for this is because their parents brought them up like this and often when pushed they have no real reason for their belief.

No one cares what people believe but they do care when religion is in our schools and politics and stops getting privilege. Eradicate it from there and just like being a star trek fan no one will care what you think.

Also remember that every religious person is an atheist for every other god man has created so atheists are everyone.

[Nedusa]

You started this thread by asking what was the point of praying but reading the latter posts perhaps this thread should have been titled what is the point of religion as it has become more of a debate about the usefullness or point of religion.

Yesterday I accused people who pray as being seriously misguided although I used stronger language than that and was roundly condemned as being offensive for likening the action of praying to a possible mental aberration. It seems like people do like to pray for a variety of reasons including personal faith and spirituality.

I think most if not all people are aware faith holds no logic and is at odds with science but as humans we still hold the ability to think beyond what we can prove and religion or faith is the way we aspire to be something beyond what we can touch.

I personally do not hold to any organised religion preferring instead to keep my religious and spiritual beliefs to myself.

The Atheist v Theist debate will continue and I for one hope mainstream religions will continue to decline as to me they are instruments of control,profit and manipulation.

[thesheriff443]

Lets put it flat on the table Marsh
Science proves there is No God
If some power started speaking out of the Sky
I would track the Speakers.



I can see why people follow a old fable book
But many of us are at a better Level in Life.

great post.

I like the line, in god we trust, everyone else pays cash!.

[Jesus.]

Is there a term for "atheist who really cannot be arsed with telling others what to believe"? Because Ricky Gervais and threads like this are just really damaging atheism and making it seem so ****ing pedantic

Yeah, a thread on a forum is really taking a hammer blow to atheism. Hopefully the belief that there isn't a god, can survive someone having and sharing opinions that you don't agree with on the internet. I don't agree with catweasels opinions in this thread either, but atheism is a broad church, and expecting a consensus amongst atheists is like trying to herd cats

Ricky Gervais also damages atheism? That's just nonsense. People believe whatever they like, and the fact that Ricky Gervais talks openly about it in a way that you and some other people don't like, is not going to have any affect on anything or anyone.

What does "damaging atheism" even mean?

[Kyle]

You started this thread by asking what was the point of praying but reading the latter posts perhaps this thread should have been titled what is the point of religion as it has become more of a debate about the usefullness or point of religion.

Yesterday I accused people who pray as being seriously misguided although I used stronger language than that and was roundly condemned as being offensive for likening the action of praying to a possible mental aberration. It seems like people do like to pray for a variety of reasons including personal faith and spirituality.

I think most if not all people are aware faith holds no logic and is at odds with science but as humans we still hold the ability to think beyond what we can prove and religion or faith is the way we aspire to be something beyond what we can touch.

I personally do not hold to any organised religion preferring instead to keep my religious and spiritual beliefs to myself.

The Atheist v Theist debate will continue and I for one hope mainstream religions will continue to decline as to me they are instruments of control,profit and manipulation.

To me I find I personally have a conflict if interest with this. While I have no problem with people having personal faith I am also delighted to see the shackles of religious institution being lifted from the Western World and would be more than happy to see it gone for good.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You started this thread by asking what was the point of praying but reading the latter posts perhaps this thread should have been titled what is the point of religion as it has become more of a debate about the usefullness or point of religion.

Yesterday I accused people who pray as being seriously misguided although I used stronger language than that and was roundly condemned as being offensive for likening the action of praying to a possible mental aberration. It seems like people do like to pray for a variety of reasons including personal faith and spirituality.

I think most if not all people are aware faith holds no logic and is at odds with science but as humans we still hold the ability to think beyond what we can prove and religion or faith is the way we aspire to be something beyond what we can touch.

I personally do not hold to any organised religion preferring instead to keep my religious and spiritual beliefs to myself.

The Atheist v Theist debate will continue and I for one hope mainstream religions will continue to decline as to me they are instruments of control,profit and manipulation.

The thread has no rules and can go which way. There seems to be no appetite to defend praying in terms of "how it works" and evidence thereof and as most people realise its a self medication process against the relentless tide of life and our insignificance.

As i stated we are all atheist really, religious people just have one god they are not atheist about. We are all atheist to dragons, fairies and goblins.

[Nedusa]

If you are a theist then you believe in at least one God although theism is now more commonly held as a monotheistic doctrine ie believing in just one God.

Atheism is a rejection of Theism (one god or many) so believing in just one God (whilst not believing in others) technically does not make you atheist....

But Dragons,Fairies and goblins well not sure if they qualify as Deities !!

[Crimson Dynamo]

If you are a theist then you believe in at least one God although theism is now more commonly held as a monotheistic doctrine ie believing in just one God.

Atheism is a rejection of Theism (one god or many) so believing in just one God (whilst not believing in others) technically does not make you atheist....

But Dragons,Fairies and goblins well not sure if they qualify as Deities !!

How are you on Leprechauns?

[Niamh.]

We love all your words Ammi :love:

:lovedup: we do

[Kizzy]

http://cdn0.cosmosmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/small.DAWKINS_The%20God%20Delusion.jpg

A Top Book
I Love

My daughter thinks he's great, I got her one of his books for christmas...ironically :joker:

[arista]

My daughter thinks he's great, I got her one of his books for christmas...ironically :joker:


She Is Most Wise

[Kizzy]

Praying is just a bastardisation of chanting.... we all love a good chant.
As ye will it so mote it be, and so on and so forth.

[Marsh.]

Lets put it flat on the table Marsh
Science proves there is No God
If some power started speaking out of the Sky
I would track the Speakers.

I can see why people follow a old fable book
But many of us are at a better Level in Life.

Again, a faith/belief does not always equate to organised religion and the bible.

Secondly, science hasn't proven anything in regards to a God.

Kindly patronise someone else.

[Marsh.]

..I've really enjoyed your posts in this thread, Marsh and agree with most of what you say..I think that a lot of 'religious' people are very open minded in that they can believe in something that has no explanation because not everything in life can be explained..that's why it's 'belief' and belief can be a belief in anything and it's only a bad thing...(particularly in religion..)..when someone in that religion misuses it because they choose to pick out any negatives in it and just concentrate on those, which is being extreme...but they aren't the 'average/typical' religious person, that's why they're called extremists, they choose to put aside most of the good and positive teachings in their religion but there are people without any religion at all who do that anyway...


..personally I know some really good people who are religious and ok, maybe they don't take their religion to 'the letter of the law' and some people would say, you can't pick and choose the bits you want to...but I don't see anything wrong with that either because they're just taking their religion as an inspirational type thing to try to be a better person and also when they have fairly rubbish things happen in their lives, to help them get through those times because it gives them something to focus on, other than their emotional pain...how can that be bad/wrong..?...we all have to use 'crutches' at some point in our lives, whether it be friends/family/our job that we can focus on to distract and absorb us etc...for some people it's their religion and that's perfectly fine as well, it's as fine as anything else is...and not all people who have a faith, take the negative stuff and apply it to their lives because that wouldn't do anything but negative things to them..what they want and have and project onto others is something very positive in that they are quite often very good, admirable and generally caring and understanding people....

..anyway, I never get into religious discussions..this is my 'pet hate'..:laugh:...


..but yeah, good posts, Marsh...

Thank you.

I told myself I'd steer clear from these types of discussions after the last one. Never again. :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I loved the story about that plane that ditched in New York in the Hudson River. As it was making its emergency landing the religious people were saying prayers

Meanwhile the atheists were reading the panel to see where the emergency exits were and putting on their life jackets......

[smeagol]

praying is a state of mind. if it makes people feel better then good luck to them
god may not hear your prayers but maybe people you lost will.

[Crimson Dynamo]

praying is a state of mind. if it makes people feel better then good luck to them
god may not hear your prayers but maybe people you lost will.

Dead people are dead, just like unborn people are. You cease to exist, when you die, in all but the memories of those you leave behind.

Your sentiment will be filed under "wishful thinking". I dont say that to be mean but just to identify it in context of this thread.

[Kyle]

Dead people are dead, just like unborn people are. You cease to exist, when you die, in all but the memories of those you leave behind.

Your sentiment will be filed under "wishful thinking". I dont say that to be mean but just to identify it in context of this thread.

Ah leave him be. People can think what they want for me so long as they leave it out of mainstream education.

[lostalex]

Praying should be like masturbation. It's completely natural, nothing wrong with it, but I really don't wanna hear about it.

It's just spiritual masturbation. Do your business and get on with it, you don't need to make a big thing out of it.

People that need to make a big thing out of it, especially at large gatherings, should go fv<k themselves.

[Livia]

Dead people are dead, just like unborn people are. You cease to exist, when you die, in all but the memories of those you leave behind.

Your sentiment will be filed under "wishful thinking". I dont say that to be mean but just to identify it in context of this thread.



No, of course not... but it is mean, especially to those of us who have lost someone very close. Stop stating this as fact. I have never seen anyone on this thread state their religious beliefs as fact. I fail to see why you can't accept that some people have faith and leave them to it instead of trying to stamp all over people's beliefs. There are far more intelligent people than you or I who have faith, just like there are far more intelligent people than you and I who have no faith. Leave people be to make up their own mind.


Praying should be like masturbation. It's completely natural, nothing wrong with it, but I really don't wanna hear about it.

It's just spiritual masturbation. Do your business and get on with it, you don't need to make a big thing out of it.

People that need to make a big thing out of it, especially at large gatherings, should go fv<k themselves.

Got to agree with you, Alex. It is a personal thing that people should keep to themselves. If someone is truly interested in your faith - I don't mean people who make a thread to force their own non-belief on you and ridicule yours - I mean really interested to hear what you have to say, then that should be the only time it should be shared.

[Livia]

I loved the story about that plane that ditched in New York in the Hudson River. As it was making its emergency landing the religious people were saying prayers

Meanwhile the atheists were reading the panel to see where the emergency exits were and putting on their life jackets......

Maybe the religious people had already read the panel, like you're asked to do when you board.

Captain Sullenberger didn't ridicule passengers and crew for praying. He was very understanding about people's faith and their reaction to catastrophe. But hey... anything that gives you a laugh...

[thesheriff443]

No, of course not... but it is mean, especially to those of us who have lost someone very close. Stop stating this as fact. I have never seen anyone on this thread state their religious beliefs as fact. I fail to see why you can't accept that some people have faith and leave them to it instead of trying to stamp all over people's beliefs. There are far more intelligent people than you or I who have faith, just like there are far more intelligent people than you and I who have no faith. Leave people be to make up their own mind.




Got to agree with you, Alex. It is a personal thing that people should keep to themselves. If someone is truly interested in your faith - I don't mean people who make a thread to force their own non-belief on you and ridicule yours - I mean really interested to hear what you have to say, then that should be the only time it should be shared.
I hear the under ground bible movement is growing!, might even take over the world some day.

[Livia]

I hear the under ground bible movement is growing!, might even take over the world some day.

Don't know what you're talking about. My religion doesn't recruit.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Maybe the religious people had already read the panel, like you're asked to do when you board.

Captain Sullenberger didn't ridicule passengers and crew for praying. He was very understanding about people's faith and their reaction to catastrophe. But hey... anything that gives you a laugh...

Who said i was laughing?

Who said the captain ridiculed anyone?

Who said it was a catastrophe?

It was a remarkable example of a trained pilot using his skill to save a potentially devastating accident.

Imagine if he had put his head in his hands and prayed...

[thesheriff443]

Don't know what you're talking about. My religion doesn't recruit.

that makes two of us.

[Livia]

Who said i was laughing?

Who said the captain ridiculed anyone?

Who said it was a catastrophe?

It was a remarkable example of a trained pilot using his skill to save a potentially devastating accident.

Imagine if he had put his head in his hands and prayed...


You didn't find it funny? That's not what your post implied - atheists being proactive - religious people not being proactive. No one said the captain ridiculed anyone, it's you who ridiculed people. I merely pointed out he was closer to the action than you and DIDN'T ridicule anyone. Sigh...

I imagine anyone involved would have thought it was a catastrophe, and it could have had a very different ending if it wasn't for the skill and bravery of the captain. Why would someone religious neglect their duty and pray at a time when their skill was needed? That's just silly.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You didn't find it funny? That's not what your post implied - atheists being proactive - religious people not being proactive. No one said the captain ridiculed anyone, it's you who ridiculed people. I merely pointed out he was closer to the action than you and DIDN'T ridicule anyone. Sigh...

I imagine anyone involved would have thought it was a catastrophe, and it could have had a very different ending if it wasn't for the skill and bravery of the captain. Why would someone religious neglect their duty and pray at a time when their skill was needed? That's just silly.

Catastrophe
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A catastrophe is an extremely large-scale disaster, a horrible event.

catastrophe
kəˈtastrəfi/Submit
noun
1.
an event causing great and usually sudden damage or suffering; a disaster.
"an environmental catastrophe"


Let it go Linda, i mean Livia

[Ninastar]

Let it go Linda, i mean Livia

http://www.danielyerelian.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

[Brother Leon]

If it gives people hope and strength in hard times then it's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, even if it doesn't do anything. Don't see that much wrong with it.

This thread was ended with the first reply.

[AnnieK]

This thread was ended with the first reply.

Amen to that

[Livia]

Catastrophe
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A catastrophe is an extremely large-scale disaster, a horrible event.

catastrophe
kəˈtastrəfi/Submit
noun
1.
an event causing great and usually sudden damage or suffering; a disaster.
"an environmental catastrophe"


Let it go Linda, i mean Livia

I have a first from Cambridge, I don't need Wiki to prove my point. I'd call you a name from CBB but frankly there isn't anyone tedious enough in there...

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have a first from Cambridge, I don't need Wiki to prove my point. I'd call you a name from CBB but frankly there isn't anyone tedious enough in there...

It took to long to reply and giving me the "do you know who I am" routine?

seriously?

:laugh2:

-1

[Kate!]

This thread was ended with the first reply.

Agreed.

[Kate!]

It took to long to reply and giving me the "do you know who I am" routine?

seriously?

:laugh2:

-1

You're really rude and confrontational.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You're really rude and confrontational.

Thank you, it was a lucky guess but ill give you the credit. :spin:

[Josy]

Closed.