Ukraine Civil fights: Crimea is now part of Russia : New Peace Plan

[King Gizzard]

You do wonder why no one ever really gets shot, no amount of intelligence/policing/security can stop some person who has a gun shooting a high figure at some point in a day

[Nedusa]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/17/296527/default/v1/cegrab-20140317-144832-0-1-522x293.jpg
The USA President
is on all Live Media.

He is off to Europe next week worried about what Russia will do next

For feck sake sort out you own mess in USA
Do not fly out here - You fecking fool

http://news.sky.com/story/1227136/obama-threatens-more-sanctions-on-russia

Let's cut to the chase - short and sweet.

1. The Obama administration's "strategic" gambit to subcontract the State Department's "Khaganate of Nulands" to extricate Ukraine from the Russian sphere of influence - and ultimately annex it to NATO - by instrumentalizing a coalition of willing neo-nazis and fascists with a central bank veneer (prime minister "Yats"), is in utter shambles.

2. Moscow's counterpunch was to prevent in Crimea - as intercepted by Russian intelligence - a planned replay of the putsch in Kiev. The referendum in Crimea - 85% of turnout, roughly 93% voting for re-joining Russia, according to exit polls - is a done deal, as much as the oh-so-democratic European Union (EU) keeps threatening to punish people in Crimea for exercising their basic democratic rights. (By the way, when the US got
Kosovo to secede from Serbia, Serbians were offered no referendum).

3. The main rationale for the whole US "strategic" advance - to have their proxies, the regime changers in Kiev, cancel the agreement for the Russian naval base in Sevastopol - is up in smoke. Moscow remains present in the Black Sea and with full access to the Eastern Mediterranean.

And the rest is blah blah blah.

[arista]

"is in utter shambles."

Bang On Right

[Z]

Fantastic post Nedusa, a concise, brilliant explanation of exactly what has happened here.

[lostalex]

92% :worship: now **** off America

Sadam had 100%, so what?

[Livia]

Fantastic post Nedusa, a concise, brilliant explanation of exactly what has happened here.

It is a brilliant explanation. Pepe Escobar actually wrote it. Read the full article here:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-170314.html

[Nedusa]

It is a brilliant explanation. Pepe Escobar actually wrote it. Read the full article here:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-170314.html

I was of course quoting from Pepe Escobars article published in the Asia Times today.Glad I could be of service and bring his words to the widest audience.

Thank you so much for pointing that out...

[lostalex]

I was of course quoting from Pepe Escobars article published in the Asia Times today.Glad I could be of service and bring his words to the widest audience.

Thank you so much for pointing that out...

so why didn't you link to your source, or even mention the fact that you were directly quoting an article?

you got called out. how embarrassing. :laugh2:

[Livia]

I was of course quoting from Pepe Escobars article published in the Asia Times today.Glad I could be of service and bring his words to the widest audience.

Thank you so much for pointing that out...

A little late to be crediting the actual author now, I think.

[lostalex]

A little late to be crediting the actual author now, I think.

she had more to say about you earlier Livia, not very nice things. I guess she has friends in high places though, cause she had it erased before you got here. hmmm.

I defended you, and she got my reply deleted too.

would the mod who deleted those posts care to explain that?

[Livia]

she had more to say about you earlier Livia, not very nice things. I guess she has friends in high places though, cause she had it erased before you got here. hmmm.

I defended you, and she got my reply deleted too.

would the mod who deleted those posts care to explain that?

Thanks Alex. I can understand. It's humiliating to be caught out like that I guess.

[Nedusa]

A little late to be crediting the actual author now, I think.

You should have read my earlier post which was unfortunately deleted by the Mods, cos I'd really loved you to have read it. Just about sums you up.

I'm glad Alex read it maybe he can enlighten you.

I admit I forgot to mention I was using a quote...OK ..But I sense a certain zeal on your part in the way you pointed that out to everyone.

Not nice....a bit nasty in fact ????

[lostalex]

Thanks Alex. I can understand. It's humiliating to be caught out like that I guess.

definitely humiliating, especially when she was so condescending in the way she presented it, as if anyone who didn;t agree with the Putin perspective must be stupid to not understand why it's okay for Russia to send troops into a sovereign nation, and then hold a referendum where the only 2 option on the ballot were "do you want to be part of Russia", or "do you want to leave the Ukraine".

But i guess maybe she doesn't understand the history of the soviet union, the history of Russia completely dominating eastern Europe after ww2, because as America marches across Europe to free the people from the west, Russia marches across Europe planting Russian flags and claiming new territory from the east. If America hadn't dropped the bombs on Japan, Japan itself would be a soviet republic.


Russia didn't free anyone in ww2, they were just planting flags. they just replaced the swastikas with the hammer and sickle... Russia never liberated a soul during ww2.

[lostalex]

You should have read my earlier post which was unfortunately deleted by the Mods, cos I'd really loved you to have read it. Just about sums you up.

I'm glad Alex read it maybe he can enlighten you.

I admit I forgot to mention I was using a quote...OK ..But I sense a certain zeal on your part in the way you pointed that out to everyone.

Not nice....a bit nasty in fact ????

yes you were certainly saying nasty things about Livia earlier, how did you get the mods to delete it, and my response to it? you obviously have a mod that's willing to do your bidding. who is this mod that deleted it for you? will you say? I'd like to know which mod deleted my posts without ever contacting me or questioning it, they just deleted it because you asked.

[Livia]

definitely humiliating, especially when she was so condescending in the way she presented it, as if anyone who didn;t agree with the Putin perspective must be stupid to not understand why it's okay for Russia to send troops into a sovereign nation, and then hold a referendum where the only 2 option on the ballot were "do you want to be part of Russia", or "do you want to leave the Ukraine".

But i guess maybe she doesn't understand the history of the soviet union, the history of Russia completely dominating eastern Europe after ww2, because as America marches across Europe to free the people from the west, Russia marches across Europe planting Russian flags and claiming new territory from the east. If America hadn't dropped the bombs on Japan, Japan itself would be a soviet republic.


Russia didn't free anyone in ww2, they were just planting flags. they just replaced the swastikas with the hammer and sickle... Russia never liberated a soul during ww2.

Got to agree with a lot of that. People always quote Hitler as being the biggest tyrant of the 20th Century and forget how many people Stalin murdered.

[Livia]

yes you were certainly saying nasty things about Livia earlier, how did you get the mods to delete it, and my response to it? you obviously have a mod that's willing to do your bidding. who is this mod that deleted it for you? will you say? I'd like to know which mod deleted my posts without ever contacting me or questioning it, they just deleted it because you asked.

I'm sure the mods were just trying to keep the peace, Alex.

[lostalex]

I'm sure the mods were just trying to keep the peace, Alex.

"the peace" is not always fair, unfortunately.

[Nedusa]

definitely humiliating, especially when she was so condescending in the way she presented it, as if anyone who didn;t agree with the Putin perspective must be stupid to not understand why it's okay for Russia to send troops into a sovereign nation, and then hold a referendum where the only 2 option on the ballot were "do you want to be part of Russia", or "do you want to leave the Ukraine".

But i guess maybe she doesn't understand the history of the soviet union, the history of Russia completely dominating eastern Europe after ww2, because as America marches across Europe to free the people from the west, Russia marches across Europe planting Russian flags and claiming new territory.


Russia didn't free anyone in ww2, they were just planting flags. they just replaced the swastikas with hammer and sickles...

Yes I agree I was a bit humiliated but thats my fault I guess...I must remember in future to always credit the Author when I quote parts of their work.

And I do understand Russian History quite well but my point of view is my point of view and this is after all the place to debate these things.

Finally Alex lets not fall out over this as it seems I already have enough posters on here that are out of favour with me at the moment.

[MTVN]

Umm no Nedusa did not ask for her post to be deleted, Nedusa could have deleted her own post if that's what they wanted. It's the Mods job to delete posts that could be potentially offensive or lead to an argument. It's funny how whenever your posts get deleted Alex you think you're being prosecuted, when someone else's posts get deleted you think they've asked for it and the Mods have done it as a favour?

[lostalex]

Umm no Nedusa did not ask for her post to be deleted, Nedusa could have deleted her own post if that's what they wanted. It's the Mods job to delete posts that could be potentially offensive or lead to an argument. It's funny how whenever your posts get deleted Alex you think you're being prosecuted, when someone else's posts get deleted you think they've asked for it and the Mods have done it as a favour?

but the post wasn't even about me, it was about Livia, so why did you delete a post that was offensive about Livia before she could even see it? Nedusa said messed up things about Livia, and i defended Livia, and then you deleted the whole thing, and Livia is now not able to see the messed up things Nedusa said about her.

you should have left the post, and let Livia respond appropriately. ou are ASUMMING that Livia would have what? you think livia would have broken the rules when she saw it? why would you censor it before livia would see it? Livia is a long time member who knows how to respond appropriately
so i don't know why you wouldn't let Livia see what was being said about her behind her back.

[Livia]

but the post wasn't even about me, it was about Livia, so why did you delete a post that was offensive about Livia before she could even see it? Nedusa said messed up things about Livia, and i defended Livia, and then you deleted the whole thing, and Livia is now not able to see the messed up things Nedusa said about her.

Alex, I'm not bothered, truly. Thanks for defending me but I'm not interested in seeing the posts. Let us let it go now.

[lostalex]

Alex, I'm not bothered, truly. Thanks for defending me but I'm not interested in seeing the posts. Let us let it go now.

That's fine Livia, but no offense, i don't even care about you that much, i'm just arguing the principle. no offense.

[Livia]

That's fine Livia, but no offense, i don't even care about you that much, i'm just arguing the principle. no offense.

That's fine Alex, I don't care about you either.

[lostalex]

That's fine Alex, I don't care about you either.

*huggles and snuggles* :joker:

[lostalex]

seriously though, did Nedusa get an infraction for it then, from what was deleted? or was it just deleted with no consequences?

[Kizzy]

They said on newsnight last week there was 10 days to something, I can't remember what?.... is it up now?

[MTVN]

This is all none of your business Alex.

I suggest this whole thing is dropped and the topic is returned to now.

[Nedusa]

This is all none of your business Alex.

I suggest this whole thing is dropped and the topic is returned to now.

Agree........

[lostalex]

This is all none of your business Alex.

I suggest this whole thing is dropped and the topic is returned to now.

ummm, my post was deleted, how is that not my business?

[lostalex]

Im letting it go, fine.

[lostalex]

so Putin is an asshole and he's not the only one... :wavey:

[Nedusa]

so Putin is an asshole and he's not the only one... :wavey:

I'm sure he speaks fondly of you...........:joker:

[arista]

Top World Leader Putin
is Live on all media

[lostalex]

Top World Leader Putin
is Live on all media

he's as ubiquitous as the little arrow on our mouse cursor. King of the World.

[Sticks]

I do sympathise with Lostalex

I hate to invoke Godwin's law, but from my observation of the anti-American feeling from some, that had some of those posters and this forum was around in the 1940's, there would be overwhelming support of Japan for whipping America's backside at Pearl Harbour. Some even claiming the Japanese did not do it but it was captured Japanese planes flown by the CIA to blame the nice inoffensive Japanese.

Also later as they made in roads into Europe to try and liberate it, maybe some would be supporting that nice and misunderstood chap called Adolph, because he was against the evil empire of America and their obvious expansion programme into Europe.

:rolleyes:

Putin is a dictator who wants to roll back things to before 1989 and the fall of the Berlin Wall.

[lostalex]

I do sympathise with Lostalex

I hate to invoke Godwin's law, but from my observation of the anti-American feeling from some, that had some of those posters and this forum was around in the 1940's, there would be overwhelming support of Japan for whipping America's backside at Pearl Harbour. Some even claiming the Japanese did not do it but it was captured Japanese planes flown by the CIA to blame the nice inoffensive Japanese.

Also later as they made in roads into Europe to try and liberate it, maybe some would be supporting that nice and misunderstood chap called Adolph, because he was against the evil empire of America and their obvious expansion programme into Europe.

:rolleyes:

Putin is a dictator who wants to roll back things to before 1989 and the fall of the Berlin Wall.

thank you.

Some people act like Russia is the victim here when Russia has a long brutal history with it's neighbors

Some people seem to think that the break up of the USSR means we can forget the not so distant history they have. Are we meant to ignore sovereign nations in eastern Europe just because Russia used to OWN them? sorry, but since when does having a long occupational past of owning foreign territory mean they can just do whatever the F they want?

And many of them even claim that it;s the US that is being aggressive, remind me again, how many US troops have been occupying Ukraine? 0. how many russians troops are occupying Ukraine? over 20,000. wtf

put some thought into it people, seriously.

[arista]

Soldier Killed As Gunmen Storm Ukraine Base

[One Ukrainian soldier has reportedly died after being shot in the neck when a group of gunmen attacked the compound.]

http://news.sky.com/story/1227970/soldier-killed-as-gunmen-storm-ukraine-base

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10704798/Ukraine-crisis-live.html

[lostalex]

Soldier Killed As Gunmen Storm Ukraine Base

[One Ukrainian soldier has reportedly died after being shot in the neck when a group of gunmen attacked the compound.]

http://news.sky.com/story/1227970/soldier-killed-as-gunmen-storm-ukraine-base

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10704798/Ukraine-crisis-live.html

it would be on CNN if it were true, and it's not on CNN. CNN is still talking about that plane that crashed 5 years ago or whenever.

[Z]

Putin is a democratically elected statesman who turned Russia from a floundering, stagnant and pathetic state clinging onto its former great power status into becoming a great power once again. Calling him a dictator is laughable. People are afraid of him because he's intelligent and a good strategist.

[arista]

it would be on CNN if it were true, and it's not on CNN. CNN is still talking about that plane that crashed 5 years ago or whenever.


It will be on CNN later
there are other news Ch.

[lostalex]

Putin is a democratically elected statesman who turned Russia from a floundering, stagnant and pathetic state clinging onto its former great power status into becoming a great power once again. Calling him a dictator is laughable. People are afraid of him because he's intelligent and a good strategist.

democratically elected? lol, he's a former KGB, who has been holding onto power for decades, ignoring term limits, do you honestly believe that Medvedev was ever in power? no it was clearly Putin's manipulation to have a puppet in power just long enuf for him to cheat the term limits, are you serious?

You honestly think Putin a legitimate democratic leader? If you do than we can't have a conversation, because it's ridiculous. if you can't even admit the most blatant manipulations and corruption by Putin than there is no point having a conversation,. next you'll tell me that the ocean is red and the sky is green.

if only i watched more Russia Today, then i'd know the "truth" and we could have conversation lol

[MTVN]

Problem is, as is evident from some posts in this thread, many still hold a Cold War perception of Russia as this great Red Menace desperate to swallow up the whole of Eastern Europe.The West needs to accept that the Cold War is over, it's crazy that NATO is ever increasing its membership and its power when it was supposedly set up as a cold war measure against the USSR; a conflict and a state which hasn't existed for over twenty years. NATO should have no longer served any purpose after the end of the cold war, instead Russia has had to watch as it gets ever closer to its borders and wooing all of Russia's neighbours.

Ukraine was considered a country too far, being the neighbour that probably means the most to Russia. The West has been trying to encroach ever more on Russia's sphere of influence over the last few years and this is the result.

[lostalex]

Problem is, as is evident from some posts in this thread, many still hold a Cold War perception of Russia as this great Red Menace desperate to swallow up the whole of Eastern Europe.The West needs to accept that the Cold War is over, it's crazy that NATO is ever increasing its membership and its power when it was supposedly set up as a cold war measure against the USSR; a conflict and a state which hasn't existed for over twenty years. NATO should have no longer served any purpose after the end of the cold war, instead Russia has had to watch as it gets ever closer to its borders and wooing all of Russia's neighbours.

Ukraine was considered a country too far, being the neighbour that probably means the most to Russia. The West has been trying to encroach ever more on Russia's sphere of influence over the last few years and this is the result.

yea, funny how many of us still have this "cold war" perception of Russia as being a red menace swallowing up eastern Europe, while they are taking over territory in Eastern Europe! lol.

funny how some people might have that perception of Russia... first Georgia, now Ukraine... where do those people get such ideas that Russia is taking over territory in eastern Europe...

where could we possibly be getting that idea from?? :joker:

[Z]

yea, funny how many of us still have this "cold war" perception of Russia as being a red menace swallowing up eastern Europe, while they are taking over territory in Eastern Europe! lol.

funny how some people might have that perception of Russia... first Georgia, now Ukraine... where do those people get such ideas that Russia is taking over territory in eastern Europe...

where could we possibly be getting that idea from?? :joker:

Russia strolled into Georgia to defend its minorities in Georgian territory and then promptly left within the week. Educate yourself before you start claiming Russia took over any territory. The Crimea is still part of Ukraine at the time of writing. Russia has not swallowed up any foreign territory, we do not live in imperialist times anymore. I honestly think Putin is a legitimate democratic leader. I've been extensively studying him for the last five years and will shortly have a degree proving my knowledge of the area. My opinions are well informed and I don't get them from Russia Today.

[lostalex]

Russia strolled into Georgia to defend its minorities in Georgian territory and then promptly left within the week. Educate yourself before you start claiming Russia took over any territory. The Crimea is still part of Ukraine at the time of writing. Russia has not swallowed up any foreign territory, we do not live in imperialist times anymore. I honestly think Putin is a legitimate democratic leader. I've been extensively studying him for the last five years and will shortly have a degree proving my knowledge of the area. My opinions are well informed and I don't get them from Russia Today.

it's minorities? no, georgians are georgians, no matter where they came from, and ukrainians are ukranian no matter where they came from, that's what Teritorial sovereignty MEANS.

you can't just roll out the tanks because there are some people in a foreign country that speak your language.

That's like saying France has the right to invade Canada because there are tons of french speaking people there, or Mexico can annex Southern California because lots of people speak spanish.

That's a ridiculous argument, and it's illegal under international law.

[Sticks]

Continuing with the invoking of Godwin's Law, a certain person in the 1930's was elected to head the party of National Socialism. and then elected to be chancellor of his homeland.

Dictators can manipulate and subvert the democratic process when they have to, relying on the apathy of the masses to do so, time and time again.

[Sticks]

Also this person was a tee-total vegetarian

[lostalex]

Also this person was a tee-total vegetarian

actually that's a myth, Hitler wasn't vegetarian/ he attended multiple state dinners and was observed eating many different types of meat on multiple occasions.

he might have been a veggie in his private life, but in public he definitely ate meat.

[Sticks]

I sit corrected...

[Sticks]

BTW I am tee-total

[lostalex]

yea, i see vegetarianism the same way i see religion, i don't care, but please try not to mention it.

[MTVN]

BTW I am tee-total

Good to hear Sticks, steer clear of that devil's water

[Z]

it's minorities? no, georgians are georgians, no matter where they came from, and ukrainians are ukranian no matter where they came from, that's what Teritorial sovereignty MEANS.

you can't just roll out the tanks because there are some people in a foreign country that speak your language.

That's like saying France has the right to invade Canada because there are tons of french speaking people there, or Mexico can annex Southern California because lots of people speak spanish.

That's a ridiculous argument, and it's illegal under international law.

Scottish people are also British people. English people are also British people. Texans are Americans and so are Hawaiians. Ethnicity, nationality, regional differences... there are subtle differences but they exist. There are Russian speaking people living in Georgia. They feel Russian. There are separatist republics within Georgian territory which do not feel Georgian, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The Georgian Prime Minister threw the first punch by cracking down on these so called dissidents and so Russia sent in the tanks to get them to back off. Invasion to me implies that they went and took the territory. They didn't. They respected Georgia's autonomy and didn't claim any of those territories as their own, they simply went in and stopped them from picking on ethnic Russians. It's a very complicated issue that stems from the messy collapse of the Soviet Union. There were a lot of dispersed people living in various territories that were suddenly new countries. There is even today a problem with Russian people living in Estonia and Latvia who are officially stateless persons because they refuse to say they are Estonian or Latvian and therefore can't apply for a passport and in some cases aren't allowed to register to vote. Either renounce your nationality or get out, those are the options presented to those people. One of my friends on my course has an Estonian father and a Russian mother who met in the Estonian SSR. When Estonia became an independent country, her mother, who doesn't speak any Estonian, was suddenly a foreigner living in a foreign country, rather than someone who had moved across her own country to live elsewhere. She's not allowed to leave the country and so has never been able to visit her daughter here in Scotland and won't be able to attend her graduation. I know I'm digressing from the point a little bit here but I'm just trying to highlight how complicated the concepts of nationality/ethnicity are when applied to Eastern Europe and former Soviet Union territories both from an emotional and a legal point of view.

[lostalex]

yea, sorry, i'm not reading that. TL;DR

[Z]

yea, sorry, i'm not reading that. TL;DR

The short form: the collapse of the USSR meant that a lot of people were suddenly living in foreign countries when previously all they had done was move to a different part of the same country for work, and suddenly there was no work and they couldn't afford to leave or they didn't want to go because they had built their lives there and that's why you can't just say "oh they live in this country so they are that nationality", it's much more complex than that.

[lostalex]

The short form: the collapse of the USSR meant that a lot of people were suddenly living in foreign countries when previously all they had done was move to a different part of the same country for work, and suddenly there was no work and they couldn't afford to leave or they didn't want to go because they had built their lives there and that's why you can't just say "oh they live in this country so they are that nationality", it's much more complex than that.

but they they were perfectly happy being Ukrainian 1 year ago today, and it wasn't until Russian troops arrived and forced them to have a "referendum" under gunpoint that all pif a sudden they decide to be Russian? Ukraine did nothing to abuse russian speakers at all, that was all russian propaganda, There is not one single case of anyrussian speaker being abused during this whole mess, but Putin said he put terrors there to protect them?? from what??

anyways there's no point having this conversation, anyone who knows this situation has already heard every angle of it a million times. and no one is changing their minds anytime soon.

[Z]

but they they were perfectly happy being Ukrainian 1 year ago today, and it wasn't until Russian troops arrived and forced them to have a "referendum" under gunpoint that all pif a sudden they decide to be Russian? Ukraine did nothing to abuse russian speakers at all, that was all russian propaganda, There is not one single case of anyrussian speaker being abused during this whole mess, but Putin said he put terrors there to protect them?? from what??

anyways there's no point having this conversation, anyone who knows this situation has already heard every angle of it a million times. and no one is changing their minds anytime soon.

No, they weren't perfectly happy being Ukrainian because the people that live in Crimea for the most part have never considered themselves Ukrainian, they are mostly Russians living in the Crimea which happens to be in the Ukraine. It's only been "Ukrainian" for the last two decades, prior to that it was Soviet.

I think there is a point in having this conversation because there are a lot of misconceptions about this situation which are down to a combination of history lessons ending in 1991 as far as the break up of the USSR is concerned and Western interests conflicting with Eastern interests. Culturally, Ukraine is a Slavic country which is much closer in values to Russia than it is to Western Europe. The EU and NATO are interested in wrestling Ukraine away from Russia as part of their isolationist policies to prevent Russia from usurping the West's dominant position in global politics. Obviously Russia is going to feel attacked by that policy which is why it has responded accordingly. If you believe that they have invaded Ukraine and that they invaded Georgia then by that same logic you have to believe that Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded. I don't believe any of those countries were invaded because nobody was trying to steal those territories. Just because Crimea's voted in favour of joining Russia, doesn't mean that Russia actually wants to have Crimea as part of its territory. As I've said before, it's better for Russia to have a loud minority in the Ukraine in order to justify its presence in Ukrainian politics than to have the Crimea but lose its influence in Ukrainian politics and make it likelier that the West can absorb Ukraine into its institutions.

[arista]

[Kiev announces plans to withdraw Ukrainian troops from Crimea]

Thats a Good Move.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/19/ukraine-plans-troop-withdrawal-from-crimea

[lostalex]

if Ukraine still had nukes this would;;t be happening. what does this say to the rest of the world about nuclear disarmament?

[Kizzy]

'Crimea Could Be Just A Blip In Europe's History, This Incredible Time Lapse Video Shows'.

This fascinating video lays bare the fluidity of Europe's borders, carved up into smaller and smaller chunks, then merged and broken again over 1,000 years.

The video has gone viral after Crimea's annexation to Russia seems now inevitable after 97% voted to leave Ukraine to join Russia.

Though controversial, the changing of borders in Europe has rarely been more peaceful. The time-lapse video of Europe's maps shows the rise and fall of powers on the continent that no longer exist, from the Holy Roman Empire, to the Ottoman Empire, Bohemia, the Nazi occupation and the Soviet Union.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/18/europe-border-video_n_4984261.html

[Nedusa]

So 95% of the population of an area vote to re-join Russia (note the word Re-Join). They are all ethnic russians speak Russian as their first language and their area or province ie Crimea has been part of Russia since 1753 and was only stupidly given to Ukraine by Nikita Kruschev in 1954.

Why oh Why would anyone have a problem with that ? Especially Govt's of Countries thousands of miles away who pupport to stand up for freedom and democracy.

I am staggered by some of the opinions expressed here on this subject, opinions that suggest this is wrong or illegal or immoral...

Why.......why is it any of those things ?

I suspect a degree of blind allegiance to one's Country is perhaps the reason, even though it's fairly clear to most free thinking people.

[lostalex]

So 95% of the population of an area vote to re-join Russia (note the word Re-Join). They are all ethnic russians speak Russian as their first language and their area or province ie Crimea has been part of Russia since 1753 and was only stupidly given to Ukraine by Nikita Kruschev in 1954.

Why oh Why would anyone have a problem with that ? Especially Govt's of Countries thousands of miles away who pupport to stand up for freedom and democracy.

I am staggered by some of the opinions expressed here on this subject, opinions that suggest this is wrong or illegal or immoral...

Why.......why is it any of those things ?

I suspect a degree of blind allegiance to one's Country is perhaps the reason, even though it's fairly clear to most free thinking people.


wait, so are you criticizing me for being American in this statement, or criticizing the Russians in Crimea with this statement? i'm confused...

Who's blind patriotism are you talking about? It's not clear.

[Nedusa]

wait, so are you criticizing me for being American in this statement, or criticizing the Russians in Crimea with this statement? i'm confused...

Who's blind patriotism are you talking about? It's not clear.

I'm confused as to what happened to our earlier posts......???:conf:

[arista]

Moscow retaliates to US sanctions by banning senator John McCain and House of Representatives speaker John Boehner from Russia.

Fair play to Top Leader Putin.

http://news.sky.com/story/1229239/russia-bans-politicians-in-obama-retaliation

[MTVN]

:joker:

Top trolling from Putin

[lostalex]

I'm getting sick of Putin's ****. I think France should do something about it.

Operation: "Throw France to the Wolves" should commence immediately.

[MTVN]

France are a pathetic country these days, they can't do anything

[arista]

IQW_Miknqt0

[arista]

Russian Special Forces Storm Crimea Base


Crimea Is Russian Now
If you do not like Putin Move Out.

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/22/297788/default/v2/cegrab-20140322-151820-159-1-522x293.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1230212/russian-special-forces-storm-crimea-base

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7ff_1395676712

:shocked:

[Novo]

http://rt.com/news/russia-ukraine-troops-obama-945/

Not really surprising but still

[Z]

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1975132_10152372167983628_677184922_n.jpg

[arista]

Ukraine: Fatal Clashes As Protests Spread

[Deadly gun battles have broken out in the eastern Ukrainian city of Slavyansk
as separatists seize government buildings in at least one other city in the region.
Ukraine's Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said one officer was killed and another five
injured as security forces attempted to retake occupied security buildings.
In a statement on his Facebook page Mr Avakov said there was also an
"unidentifiable number" of casualties among the protesters,
who are being supported by around 1,000 civilians.
He earlier announced the government had launched
an "anti-terrorism operation," urging residents in the city to stay indoors.]



http://news.sky.com/story/1241376/ukraine-fatal-clashes-as-protests-spread


Ukraine has Russians in it
so a civil war is starting.


America keeps talking
but Putin does not care what America says
and i do not blame him


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/4/13/302074/default/v1/130414-ukraine-east-v2-1-522x293.jpg
This nation is trouble until it stops it Own Civil War

[Sticks]

How about annexing the whole of Ukraine, which is actually all part of Russia anyway, as are all of the former soviet union countries. Maybe Russia could annex the UK, also part of Russia, and we could have Putin as our president and Prime Minister for life

:elephant:

:bored:

[arista]

How about annexing the whole of Ukraine, which is actually all part of Russia anyway, as are all of the former soviet union countries. Maybe Russia could annex the UK, also part of Russia, and we could have Putin as our president and Prime Minister for life

:elephant:

:bored:


Its up to them to sort it out.


Not America



And Putin does not want the UK
the Russians are buying up top homes here

[Sticks]

The way some go on, it seems that next to Putin, sliced bread was the worst thing ever in the whole history of creation

[lostalex]

Russia is making me so angry i want to give Putin a good talking to!

[Nedusa]

Russia is making me so angry i want to give Putin a good talking to!

Why ? Because he won't do what the US tells him to do ?

[Z]

I would love to meet Vladimir Putin one day, I think he's fascinating

[arista]

I would love to meet Vladimir Putin one day, I think he's fascinating


He is very Direct
Eye to Eye.



If were telling him the good he is doing
he would give you a min

[arista]

http://oilandglory.foreignpolicy.com/files/putin_2.jpg

[lostalex]

Why ? Because he won't do what the US tells him to do ?

because he is using the Ukrainian people in his ****ed up game of power, with no regard at all for the lives he's destroying. I would have a lot to explain to him. i don't think he understands that world politics is not some silly board game, his actions have real consequences.

I can't stand seeing what he's doing to the poor people of Ukraine. :(

[Nedusa]

because he is using the Ukrainian people in his ****ed up game of power, with no regard at all for the lives he's destroying. I would have a lot to explain to him. i don't think he understands that world politics is not some silly board game, his actions have real consequences.

I can't stand seeing what he's doing to the poor people of Ukraine. :(

Oh I see.........Ideally then what would you like to happen ? perhaps NATO move troops into Ukraine or the West intall a no fly zone over Ukraine.

It takes two sides to play the Geopolitical game.

[lostalex]

Oh I see.........Ideally then what would you like to happen ? perhaps NATO move troops into Ukraine or the West intall a no fly zone over Ukraine.

It takes two sides to play the Geopolitical game.

I think Putin has demonstrated properly that Russia is way past due for Regime Change. For the good of global stability, i think we need to start making some big changes in Russia.

It's not fair for Russia to bully and frighten the children all over eastern Europe. I think America has an obligation towards the people of eastern Europe to make sure that the Russian Monster is kept at bay, and i think America has been neglecting that responsibility lately, it's time the sleeping giant awoke. We owe it to the people of eastern Europe who have been intimidated and scared for decades now. They probably have felt very neglected since the cold war ended. Russia is clearly being aggressive, and we vowed to defend them when Russia threatens them.

America has that unfortunate duty to protect the Eastern Europeans, because no one else will, unfortunately the EU(lead by the trinity of cowards: UK,France, and Germany) is as pathetic and powerless and ineffective as always, so it's up to US.

[Nedusa]

I think Putin has demonstrated properly that Russia is way past due for Regime Change. For the good of global stability, i think we need to start making some big changes in Russia.

It's not fair for Russia to bully and frighten the children all over eastern Europe. I think America has an obligation towards the people of eastern Europe to make sure that the Russian Monster is kept at bay, and i think America has been neglecting that responsibility lately, it's time the sleeping giant awoke. We owe it to the people of eastern Europe who have been intimidated and scared for decades now. They probably have felt very neglected since the cold war ended. Russia is clearly being aggressive, and we vowed to defend them when Russia threatens them.

America has that unfortunate duty to protect the Eastern Europeans, because no one else will, unfortunately the EU(lead by the trinity of cowards: UK,France, and Germany) is as pathetic and powerless and ineffective as always, so it's up to US.

Maybe Russia is scared at the ever increasing eastwards expansion of NATO. Maybe it is worried that NATO is almost on it's borders.I support NATO and have done always, however when the Iron curtain fell in 1991 I like most people expected NATO to become like the Warsaw pact past it's sell buy date. but no NATO kept going getting involved in military actions like Bosnia/Serbia and Libya when in reality it had no authority to do so.

Perhaps I can see that Russia is threatened and is trying to shore up it's defences against this perceived NATO threat.

I agree that it is time for change in Russia as the Oligarchs and Mobsters to an extent are running the show. Real democracy needs to be achieved and the fear and paranoia of the Cold War era left in that era.

By the way very brave of you to come onto a Britsh based Website/Forum and call the UK a powerless and pathetic cowardly country.

Way to go........how to make friends :nono:

[lostalex]

Maybe Russia is scared at the ever increasing eastwards expansion of NATO. Maybe it is worried that NATO is almost on it's borders.I support NATO and have done always, however when the Iron curtain fell in 1991 I like most people expected NATO to become like the Warsaw pact past it's sell buy date. but no NATO kept going getting involved in military actions like Bosnia/Serbia and Libya when in reality it had no authority to do so.

Perhaps I can see that Russia is threatened and is trying to shore up it's defences against this perceived NATO threat.

I agree that it is time for change in Russia as the Oligarchs and Mobsters to an extent are running the show. Real democracy needs to be achieved and the fear and paranoia of the Cold War era left in that era.

By the way very brave of you to come onto a Britsh based Website/Forum and call the UK a powerless and pathetic cowardly country.

Way to go........how to make friends :nono:

NATO has never invaded Russia, but Russia does have a long brutal history of invading Europe. so please don't compare the threat of NATO to Russia with the threat of Russia towards Europe... only one side, Russia, has ever invaded and conquered, and brutalized Europe. It's not NATO that did that, it's Russia, and nothing can erase that history.

NATO only has a history of DEFENDING Europe. big difference. and i don;'t appreciate you implying that some how it's NATO that is a threat to Europe's security. It shows a true ignorance of history, and a truly offensive lack of GRATITUDE for everything the US has done to stabilize Europe since WW2.

[arista]

Yes Nato is dead



And Russia flew a jet close to a American Ship on Saturday


To be fair this has nothing to do with America

[lostalex]

Yes Nato is dead

it does seem that way right? There's a major conflict going on in Europe, Russia seems happy to take whatever land they canb get their hand on at the moment, but every major American news channel only wants to talk about an asian plane in the indian ocean. If i was in eastern Europe, i would definitely feel abandoned by NATO and The US and EU. I feel sad and scared for them.

[Nedusa]

NATO has never invaded Russia, but Russia does have a long brutal history of invading Europe. so please don't compare the threat of NATO to Russia with the threat of Russia towards Europe... only one side, Russia, has ever invaded and conquered, and brutalized Europe. It's not NATO that did that, it's Russia, and nothing can erase that history.

NATO only has a history of DEFENDING Europe. big difference. and i don;'t appreciate you implying that some how it's NATO that is a threat to Europe's security. It shows a true ignorance of history, and a truly offensive lack of GRATITUDE for everything the US has done to stabilize Europe since WW2.

I really don't know what sort of history books you have been reading but Russia never invaded,conquered or brutalised anybody in Europe, in fact Europe or more importantly Germany invaded Russia and killed up to 30M Russians during the 2nd world War. Russia in fact fought on the side of the allies (in both World Wars) so I don't know where all this anti Russian rhetoric is coming from.

I agree NATO was defending Europe against the spread of Communism from the USSR but that has gone now so why does NATO have to keep advancing eastwards towards Russia ?

[lostalex]

I really don't know what sort of history books you have been reading but Russia never invaded,conquered or brutalised anybody in Europe, in fact Europe or more importantly Germany invaded Russia and killed up to 30M Russians during the 2nd world War. Russia in fact fought on the side of the allies (in both World Wars) so I don't know where all this anti Russian rhetoric is coming from.

I agree NATO was defending Europe against the spread of Communism from the USSR but that has gone now so why does NATO have to keep advancing eastwards towards Russia ?


AHH hahaha, seriously? Russia wasn't liberating ANYONE during WW2 they were just planting flags and expanding the Soviet Empire. Funny how while Russia was "liberating" countries in their fight against the nazi's they ended up with a **** ton more land afterwards, i don't remember the US claiming all the countries in Europe as new US states after WW2... but somehow Russia ended up claiming all the countries they suppossedly "liberated" as new Soviet States under the flag of the USSR, can you explain that to me please???

[Nedusa]

AHH hahaha, seriously? Russia wasn't liberating ANYONE during WW2 they were just planting flags and expanding the Soviet Empire. Funny how while Russia was "liberating" countries in their fight against the nazi's they ended up with a **** ton more land afterwards, i don't remember the US claiming all the countries in Europe as new US states after WW2... but somehow Russia ended up claiming all the countries they suppossedly "liberated" as new Soviet States under the flag of the USSR, can you explain that to me please???

Maybe after the horrors of the 2nd world War and due to the terrible price Russia had to pay they decided the only way to stop future fascist threats was to try and bring these eastern european countries under their sphere of influence. I agree once Communism took hold the Europe did indeed need a counter balance and NATO proved to be an effective counterweight to the USSR.

But as I said earlier time has moved on and NATO moving eastwards and provoking Russia now helps nobody and delays the inevitable reform of Russia and it's inclusion into the European family of Nations.

Besides the West and in particular the US has bigger enemies out there which it should be concentrating on.

[lostalex]

Maybe after the horrors of the 2nd world War and due to the terrible price Russia had to pay they decided the only way to stop future fascist threats was to try and bring these eastern european countries under their sphere of influence. I agree once Communism took hold the Europe did indeed need a counter balance and NATO proved to be an effective counterweight to the USSR.

But as I said earlier time has moved on and NATO moving eastwards and provoking Russia now helps nobody and delays the inevitable reform of Russia and it's inclusion into the European family of Nations.

Besides the West and in particular the US has bigger enemies out there which it should be concentrating on.

Funny how the US didn't feel that same need to annex all the countries we liberated during WW2, we didn't make france, and UK and spain and netherlands new US states, instead we nurtured democracy., funny how the US instead chose to lift up and support independent states in not only Europe but even in our greatest enemy Japan, and i think the US's strategy obviously paid off, because the west germans and Japan are both great prosperous nations now, did Russia nurture any great prosperous nations in eastern Europe after WW2? no it it seems they just created pathetic weak, unstable countries all over eastern Europe. but you can't acknowledge that the US strategy was better and actually what the US did was create a stronger and more secure world under it's influence. you can't admit that can you?

You can't admit that the US strategy after ww2 was better than Russia can you, and you can't admit the HORRORs that Russia committed towards eastern Europe after ww2, and that actually the USSR under Stalin was just as if not worse than nazi germany. Youwon't admit that. you still want to pretend that Russia deserves the credit for defeating Hitler. And it pains you to admit that actually America's contribution to the war was more meaningful and more benign than Russians.

You cannot rewrite history my dear, Europe may try to forget, but we have it all logged on the other side of the Atlantic, and we remember.

America tried to build up the lands we liberated. Russia brutalized and suppressed the lands they "liberated".

Just compare the success of countries that America liberated, verses the lands Russia supposedly "liberated" after ww2, it couldn't be more clear.

[Nedusa]

Funny how the US didn't feel that same need to annex all the countries we liberated during WW2, we didn't make france, and UK and spain and netherlands new US states, instead we nurtured democracy., funny how the US instead chose to lift up and support independent states in not only Europe but even in our greatest enemy Japan, and i think the US's strategy obviously paid off, because the west germans and Japan are both great prosperous nations now, did Russia nurture any great prosperous nations in eastern Europe after WW2? no it it seems they just created pathetic weak, unstable countries all over eastern Europe. but you can't acknowledge that the US strategy was better and actually what the US did was create a stronger and more secure world under it's influence. you can't admit that can you?

You can't admit that the US strategy after ww2 was better than Russia can you, and you can't admit the HORRORs that Russia committed towards eastern Europe after ww2, and that actually the USSR under Stalin was just as if not worse than nazi germany. Youwon't admit that. you still want to pretend that Russia deserves the credit for defeating Hitler. And it pains you to admit that actually America's contribution to the war was more meaningful and more benign than Russians.

You cannot rewrite history my dear, Europe may try to forget, but we have it all logged on the other side of the Atlantic, and we remember.

America tried to build up the lands we liberated. Russia brutalized and suppressed the lands they "liberated".

Just compare the success of countries that America liberated, verses the lands Russia supposedly "liberated" after ww2, it couldn't be more clear.

Good post, I agree with every word, but your post doesn't contradict my last post, yes Stalin was a brutal dictator bit that was the USSR we are talking about Russia and the Russian people, they are no different from Amercan people..

Just normal hard working people trying to get on in life.

This great game of political chess between current world powers must stop and we all need to move on and face the challenges of this world together not continue squabbling about whose ideology is better.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/15/article-2604496-1D1F858800000578-451_964x628.jpg

[arista]

Ukraine has said they can not send Tanks in
as its their own people.


The problem
is Putin has Rights to protect the Russian Speaking people.

The Nato leader (whatever he is for?)
talks of other nations helping.

Other Nations can do nothing

Its Something between Putin and the fake leader of Ukraine


Ref: Ch4HDNews, FoxNewsHD, CNN America, & SkyNewsHD

[Nedusa]

NATO has never invaded Russia, but Russia does have a long brutal history of invading Europe. so please don't compare the threat of NATO to Russia with the threat of Russia towards Europe... only one side, Russia, has ever invaded and conquered, and brutalized Europe. It's not NATO that did that, it's Russia, and nothing can erase that history.

NATO only has a history of DEFENDING Europe. big difference. and i don;'t appreciate you implying that some how it's NATO that is a threat to Europe's security. It shows a true ignorance of history, and a truly offensive lack of GRATITUDE for everything the US has done to stabilize Europe since WW2.

Russia a bully? Please. The US has 750+ bases all over the world. They have bullied their rise to the top of the global economy with their petrodollar hegemony, and they have been toppling 3rd world governments for the last 20 years. Russia doesn't want NATO encroaching upon its borders and until the US renigged on the deal not to expand NATO Russia wasn't doing anything. Georgia? Lol look who the US was supporting..... a tie eating western puppet.

The USA has no balls. If they had any and if they had real leaders they would take out NK..... and they'd tell the UN, IMF, and the rest of the world to eff off. Instead they poke their nose in every corner of the world waving their Monopoly money like a heroin dealer trying to goad some junkies while their own country and economy burns. I don't even know what good things I can say about the US anymore. Sad thing is there is no point in Americans leaving because they've infected and infiltrated every other part of the world and worse people are beginning to just not like them and their cowboy frat brother attitude. Go USA!

Yes Fcuk off and leave the rest of the world in peace...!!!

[arista]

[Five dead as Ukrainian special forces troops remove three illegal checkpoints manned by armed groups

Armoured personnel carriers and a helicopter used in the assault
Russian president Putin said attack constitutes 'a very serious crime' ]


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2611946/Obama-issues-stark-warning-Russia-new-economic-sanctions-teed-unrest-continues-grow-Ukraine.html#ixzz2znrUBuXY




Yes Putin they asking for a you to invade and fight.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/04/24/article-2611946-1D50203800000578-74_634x420.jpg

[arista]

Title changed its a Civil War now

over 40 killed
days ago.

And Ukraine Forces ran back
after they heard over the border Russia
was getting ready.


Nato claims they are getting ready in other baltic states
near Russia.


"Ukraine crisis 'threatens peace in Europe', says Russia"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10808642/Ukraine-crisis-threatens-peace-in-Europe-says-Russia.html

[Alf]

We may just get World war III in our lifetime afterall, it was always gonna be between Russia and USA.


Are you ready for war?

[arista]

We may just get World war III in our lifetime afterall, it was always gonna be between Russia and USA.


Are you ready for war?


Yes my Bunker is Fully Stocked

[arista]

[Ukraine: a General reportedly among
dead as Pro Russian rebels down helicopter
Kiev escalates effort to retake Donbass region
as rebel battalion seizes government building
for Donetsk People's Republic]


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/29/ukraine-anti-terror-hardens-opposition-donbass


14 killed

The Pro Russians got lucky

[Nedusa]

[Ukraine: a General reportedly among
dead as Pro Russian rebels down helicopter
Kiev escalates effort to retake Donbass region
as rebel battalion seizes government building
for Donetsk People's Republic]


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/29/ukraine-anti-terror-hardens-opposition-donbass


14 killed

The Pro Russians got lucky

Yes, and the more sophisticated weapons they get from Russia the luckier they will get.

[arista]

Yes, and the more sophisticated weapons they get from Russia the luckier they will get.



Yes True

[arista]

[Pro-Russian separatists have
shot down an army transport plane
in eastern Ukraine, killing 49 servicemen
and dealing a massive blow to the
campaign to defeat the rebels.]


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/6/14/316502/default/v1/rtr3tqzq-1-522x293.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1282045/ukrainian-aircraft-shot-down-by-separatists

Civil War

[Nedusa]

[Pro-Russian separatists have
shot down an army transport plane
in eastern Ukraine, killing 49 servicemen
and dealing a massive blow to the
campaign to defeat the rebels.]


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/6/14/316502/default/v1/rtr3tqzq-1-522x293.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1282045/ukrainian-aircraft-shot-down-by-separatists

Civil War


Without massive assistance from the Western powers Ukraine will not re-establish total control over the eastern side of Ukraine.

The Pro Russian fighters are being supplied with an almost endless amount of sophisticated weaponry and will win a war of attrition.

New Ukrainian President should stop these assaults on eastern cities and try and engage in constructive dialogue.

[arista]

They complain that Russia sends in even more Covert Troops
but America just says increase Sanctions.
Russia can also block lots more USA imports
It works both ways

[lostalex]

They complain that Russia sends in even more Covert Troops
but America just says increase Sanctions.
Russia can also block lots more USA imports
It works both ways

you don't even make any sense, this is a civil war. it should have nothing to do with Russia or the USA. This is for the Ukraine government to sort out.

Russia has no business interfering at all. Why the **** are they sending in troops to another sovereign country. if the US invaded Mexico everyone would be losing their ****.

Russia has just INVADED UKARAINE> and NATO now as an obligation to protect Europe by responding.

[arista]

you don't even make any sense, this is a civil war. it should have nothing to do with Russia or the USA. This is for the Ukraine government to sort out.

Russia has no business interfering at all. Why the **** are they sending in troops to another sovereign country. if the US invaded Mexico everyone would be losing their ****.

Russia has just INVADED UKARAINE> and NATO now as an obligation to protect Europe by responding.



They are scared

Putin can not be Stopped

[MTVN]

Peace talks now being held in Minsk between Kiev and Rebel leaders, looks like Vlad may have saved the day with his seven step peace plan

[Northern Monkey]

Peace talks now being held in Minsk between Kiev and Rebel leaders, looks like Vlad may have saved the day with his seven step peace plan

No,Putin says this to try and look diplomatic,all the while he's sending troops and sophisticated anti air weaponary along with tanks over to fight against the Ukrainian army.
Ukraine want to join Nato which Putin will never let happen as it would be a huge threat to him,The last thing he wants is more Nato countries popping up on his borders.This won't end while Ukraine is alligned with the west,Russia will not let it.
The reason Russia sent its soldiers in to take Crimea was that the former president who was ousted was pro-Russian and Putin had him in his palm exactly where he wanted him.Now a pro western government is in power Putin needs to destabalise Ukraine and keep it that way until he gets another leader like the last,Which is'nt going to happen.This won't end no matter how many cease fires they have or peace deals.

[arista]

Yes Peace Plan

But Putin still wants his sections

But if they stop fighting - that will be good
time will tell


http://news.sky.com/story/1330813/ukraine-and-pro-russian-rebels-agree-ceasefire

[JoshBB]

They could seperate it into East & West Ukraine and let people decide which half they want to live on, easy as that tbh

[arista]

They could seperate it into East & West Ukraine and let people decide which half they want to live on, easy as that tbh



But Ukraine says no to anything like that.

[the truth]

nato summit seemed to go swimmingly, they all looked well chilled at celtic manor and cardiff castle....deal announced on the golf course, for ukraine cease fire and nato alliance action plan involving some heavy artillery.....lets hope it actually helps find a peaceful solution....im afriad vlad needs to accept the USSR is no more and ukraine isnt his little play thing any more

[lostalex]

and Russia keeps saying the same thing, "we deny everything, prove it!" lol

Obama should adopt this strategy when we bomb the **** out of the Kremlin.

[lostalex]

They could seperate it into East & West Ukraine and let people decide which half they want to live on, easy as that tbh

yea, because that worked soooo well in Germany 50 years ago....

they should definitely build a wall between east and west too, right?

[Calderyon]

Putin allegedly said in a secret telephone call to Ukrainian prime minister (?) that he could invade and conquer the capitals of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia in just two days, if he wanted to.

I think he also said in another call that he could invade Kiev in just two weeks.

Spoken like a true dictator, isn´t he. And i bet NATO liked that leaked comment.

[Calderyon]

And now Putin considers on getting Russia rid of Internet. I guess he wants Russia to be North Korea then.

[Novo]

CAIRNS—Russian President Vladimir Putin is set to take part in a summit of world leaders in Australia in November, despite ongoing tensions between Russia and the West over the crisis in Ukraine.

The Australian government, which currently holds the presidency of the Group of 20 industrial and developing nations, said it received "emphatic" approval from the member countries to extend an invitation to Russia.

"It isn't Australia's decision, it is a decision taken by all the members of the G-20," said Australian Treasurer Joe Hockey at the start of a meeting between the Group's finance ministers in Cairns, a city in Australia's northeast. "[Russia's] a member of the G-20, and we expect that they will attend the G-20 meeting," he added.

Looks like he will be enjoying some well deserved sunshine in Brisbane

[MTVN]

Speaking at a symposium near the Brandenburg Gate yesterday morning, former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev warned that the world was “on the brink of a new cold war” and strongly criticised the west for having sown the seeds of the current crisis by mishandling the fallout from the collapse of the iron curtain.

“Instead of building new mechanisms and institutions of European security and pursuing a major demilitarisation of European politics … the west, and particularly the United States, declared victory in the cold war,” said the man behind the Soviet Union’s glasnost and perestroika reforms.

“Euphoria and triumphalism went to the heads of western leaders. Taking advantage of Russia’s weakening and the lack of a counterweight, they claimed monopoly leadership and domination in the world.”

The enlargement of Nato, Kosovo, missile defence plans and wars in the Middle East had led to a “collapse of trust”, said Gorbachev, now 83. “To put it metaphorically, a blister has now turned into a bloody, festering wound.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/08/gorbachev-cold-war-threat-berlin-wall-25th-anniversary

He's spot on, stupid how the narrative that the West 'won' the cold war has become so accepted