Ukraine Civil fights: Crimea is now part of Russia : New Peace Plan

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/19/290512/default/v2/2014-02-19t133715z-63257644-gm1ea2j1nz101-rtrmadp-3-ukraine-1-778x437.jpg


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/19/290413/default/v2/2014-02-19t091326z-1063866444-gm1ea2j1bg301-rtrmadp-3-ukraine-arbuzov-protest-1-778x437.jpg


One half wants to be in Europe the other half
wants Russia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2014/feb/19/ukraine-25-dead-after-police-storm-kiev-protest-camp-live-updates

US considering joining EU in backing sanctions
French, German and Polish foreign ministers head to Kiev
Health ministry says 26 people killed in clashes

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/19/290366/default/v2/2014-02-19t001136z-1495011479-gm1ea2j0c4t01-rtrmadp-3-ukraine-crisis-police-move-1-778x437.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1213843/ukraine-announces-anti-terror-operation

[Nedusa]

Funny that.........we had the same type of situation over here a few years back. One half of Northern Ireland wanted to be part of the Irish Republic the other half remain British. Result stalemate and a concocted Peace accord that doesn't really help either side although some might say the Unionists got a far better deal.

Ukraine similarly will never be allowed to divide along these lines....they need to work through their problems, Russia is never going away any time soon (Half of Ukrainians have Russian blood and family in Russia) and as for the EU well what can Ukraine offer to the EU other than more mass immigration.

So I would be happy if Ukraine stayed where it is and patched up its differences with Russia.

I can't help thinking this current situation in kiev has been inflammed by political tampering from Russia and the West (US)

[Z]

Funny that.........we had the same type of situation over here a few years back. One half of Northern Ireland wanted to be part of the Irish Republic the other half remain British. Result stalemate and a concocted Peace accord that doesn't really help either side although some might say the Unionists got a far better deal.

Ukraine similarly will never be allowed to divide along these lines....they need to work through their problems, Russia is never going away any time soon (Half of Ukrainians have Russian blood and family in Russia) and as for the EU well what can Ukraine offer to the EU other than more mass immigration.

So I would be happy if Ukraine stayed where it is and patched up its differences with Russia.

I can't help thinking this current situation in kiev has been inflammed by political tampering from Russia and the West (US)

Ukraine's more or less Russia's bitch. 40 million people need gas supplies from Russia and if Ukraine tries to move towards EU then Russia can and will cut them off and the EU has no way of providing the Ukrainian people any kind of safety net seeing as it imports all its gas from Russia too. The EU wants Ukraine in its sphere of influence because 40 million people adding to the pool of resources is a good thing. Of course this situation has been aggravated by the West tampering in Russia's playground. The same thing would happen if they tried to incorporate Moldova or Belarus. As for Ukraine's government, it's just stuck between a rock and a hard place and has been trying to manoeuvre its way into a bargaining position by playing the field... but you can't do that when your population is so deeply divided and you've made the bold move of nearly signing EU papers and then slam the brakes on when Putin comes round offering concessions that the EU could never provide.

[arista]

Ukraine's more or less Russia's bitch. 40 million people need gas supplies from Russia and if Ukraine tries to move towards EU then Russia can and will cut them off and the EU has no way of providing the Ukrainian people any kind of safety net seeing as it imports all its gas from Russia too. The EU wants Ukraine in its sphere of influence because 40 million people adding to the pool of resources is a good thing. Of course this situation has been aggravated by the West tampering in Russia's playground. The same thing would happen if they tried to incorporate Moldova or Belarus. As for Ukraine's government, it's just stuck between a rock and a hard place and has been trying to manoeuvre its way into a bargaining position by playing the field... but you can't do that when your population is so deeply divided and you've made the bold move of nearly signing EU papers and then slam the brakes on when Putin comes round offering concessions that the EU could never provide.


Yes
the Russian side has all the Energy Plants
and Factorys.


Putin wants it out of Europe

[Z]

Russia's more protective of Ukraine than its other near abroad interests because Russia technically was 'born' in Ukrainian territory (Kievan Rus')

[arista]

Zee Prof of Russia

[Nedusa]

The longer this violence and mayhem continues the more the ordinary Kievian will look over at stable Russia and wish that could be them, and in their eyes Putin will take credit and will be seen through envious eyes by the people of Ukraine.

Russia is purposely keeping out of this as it stands to gain politically by not being drawn into this mess. The current President Yanukovych is an out and out disgrace. He has failed the people of Ukraine at every turn from the lack of any democratic progress in his Govt, the lack of progress in nearly all the reforms he promised to make and worst of all his utter and complete incompetance in his handling of this protest.

He has actually made the situation a lot worse by not employing the correct police with the correct weapons and training. He has no idea how to handle this protest which now threatens to escalate alarmingly quicky and is polarizing the Country to the point where worst case scenario could actually be Civil War and all the bloodshed that would bring.

And having other nations like the EU countries sticking their noses in helps no one, This is Ukraines mess and must be sorted out by Ukraine...!!!

[lostalex]

The longer this violence and mayhem continues the more the ordinary Kievian will look over at stable Russia and wish that could be them, and in their eyes Putin will take credit and will be seen through envious eyes by the people of Ukraine.

Russia is purposely keeping out of this as it stands to gain politically by not being drawn into this mess. The current President Yanukovych is an out and out disgrace. He has failed the people of Ukraine at every turn from the lack of any democratic progress in his Govt, the lack of progress in nearly all the reforms he promised to make and worst of all his utter and complete incompetance in his handling of this protest.

He has actually made the situation a lot worse by not employing the correct police with the correct weapons and training. He has no idea how to handle this protest which now threatens to escalate alarmingly quicky and is polarizing the Country to the point where worst case scenario could actually be Civil War and all the bloodshed that would bring.

And having other nations like the EU countries sticking their noses in helps no one, This is Ukraines mess and must be sorted out by Ukraine...!!!

That would be nice if it was Ukraines mess, but actually it's Russia that has stuck it's nose in and caused on all this, and certainly someone should counter balance the INTERFERENCE by the Ruskies. Russia has been ****ing up eastern Europe for over 60 years, don't you think the Ukrainians deserve better finally? i do.

They want to join Europe, and be a fully European country like Germany, or France or the UK, they are SICK of being Russian lap dogs, and sick of being second-class Europeans. Eastern Europeans are Europeans too!

[Nedusa]

I'm afraid its a little more complicated than that..........half of Ukraineians are of Russian descent and have family in Russia and most of all they trust Russia.

But I agree Ukraine need to sort out their Govt have full and proper democratic elections and sing with one voice and ..yes when required stand up to Russia instead of letting Russia control it.

But whilst Ukraine is in political turmoil Russia will exploit its historical links with the Ukraineian people to gain political influence.

[arista]

Yes that why
a Split nation is better
a Civil War is on now
all news


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/19/article-2562781-1BA2943600000578-224_964x635.jpg

[arista]

EU live now saying Sanctions
against Ukraine,
and they want Elections?

But the Russian Backed Leader has said no election planned
as his nation is in a Civil War
Mob Rule.


[Ch4News 7PM has reported Snipers
are from the Riot Police
shooting there legs as the Mob moved forward
could this be a East - West War soon]

[Z]

It's all good and well saying Ukraine should just stand up to Russia but Russia has it in a vice grip; if they want to split with Russia and become an EU country then there will be heavy consequences and absolutely no politicians willing to be the ones to accept those. The backlash would be too intense. And yet doing nothing, trying to keep the status quo, has resulted in intense backlash. It will be interesting to see where the country goes from here.

[MTVN]

I wouldn't call it a civil war yet, it's more a temporary political disagreement about where their greater interests lie that has gotten way out of hand. It's pretty tricky for the government because with protests like these the protesters tend to have pretty definite goals which they aren't willing to negotiate on, with the US and the EU backing them they have the confidence to demand what they want and nothing less. They can also rely on the western media to relay the familiar tale of popular resistance vs an oppressive dictator even if that isn't necessarily the case. Shock horror, the protectors want closer ties to the EU therefore the EU impose sanctions, it's just gonna entrench the Ukranian government and their supporters in their view that it's external forces leading this opposition rather than being a legitimate popular protest

[arista]

I wouldn't call it a civil war yet, it's more a temporary political disagreement about where their greater interests lie that has gotten way out of hand. It's pretty tricky for the government because with protests like these the protesters tend to have pretty definite goals which they aren't willing to negotiate on, with the US and the EU backing them they have the confidence to demand what they want and nothing less. They can also rely on the western media to relay the familiar tale of popular resistance vs an oppressive dictator even if that isn't necessarily the case. Shock horror, the protectors want closer ties to the EU therefore the EU impose sanctions, it's just gonna entrench the Ukranian government and their supporters in their view that it's external forces leading this opposition rather than being a legitimate popular protest


Yes USA Vs Russia
in a big back garden

[Z]

Yet another proxy war, the Cold War never really ended between those two

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/21/291076/default/v1/ukraine-1-626x352.jpg

Ukraine Opposition Signs Deal With President

http://news.sky.com/story/1215040/ukraine-opposition-signs-deal-with-president


lets see if the Nazi Party behave?

[MTVN]

So despite a peace deal where they get what they want the protesters won't leave :rolleyes: All the focus has been on the protesters who've been killed which of course is sad but nobody really cares that more than a dozen policeman have died and I think over 300 (maybe 400) badly injured, it's not as simple a tale of oppressed people vs dictator as a lot of the reports make out

[Kizzy]

Who got what they wanted?... This isn't the end, Russia will wait until the eyes of the world are averted.

[arista]

Who got what they wanted?... This isn't the end, Russia will wait until the eyes of the world are averted.


They want the President Sacked
until then they can not be trusted

[MTVN]

Who got what they wanted?... This isn't the end, Russia will wait until the eyes of the world are averted.

The opposition obviously considering they agreed a peace deal yesterday granting early elections..

[arista]

The Boxer is taking control

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/story/1215638/ukraine-political-change-live-updates
Live Updates link

[Marc]

This photo is pretty stunning, horrific but stunning

http://i57.tinypic.com/bdljzq.jpg

[arista]

This photo is pretty stunning, horrific but stunning

http://i57.tinypic.com/bdljzq.jpg


Yes they want to Kill the president
or get him out of power Fast.
But he is Not Leaving
and Russia backs him.
He is is the Russian side
but back in Central they want him impeached
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/23/291294/default/v3/composite-1-626x352.jpg


If only we could do that with Blair

[arista]

[President Stopped From Leaving Country
Ukraine President Viktor Yanukovych
has been refused permission to fly out
of the country after he apparently left
the capital following violent unrest.
A charter plane thought to have the politician
onboard was denied permission to take
off from Donetsk, in eastern Ukraine,
on Saturday night, according to
the State Border Service.]


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/23/291298/default/v2/cegrab-20140223-081924-313-1-522x293.jpg
Trying to get on the Helicopter


http://news.sky.com/story/1215881/ukraine-president-stopped-from-leaving-country


Sign Of The Times

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/22/291249/default/v2/rtx19bq3-1-762x428.jpg
Thousands took the opportunity to see the president's luxurious estate

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/22/291248/default/v2/rtx19bt5-1-762x428.jpg
Ostriches were found in the vast compound

http://news.sky.com/story/1215842/luxury-revealed-as-yanukovych-flees-palace

[Z]

This photo is pretty stunning, horrific but stunning

http://i57.tinypic.com/bdljzq.jpg

That's really striking Marc, thanks for sharing. Wow.

[lostalex]

I don't even want to think about what he was doing to those poor ostriches :o

sick bastard.

[arista]

I don't even want to think about what he was doing to those poor ostriches :o

sick bastard.


They have a problem with all the Wild Animals
in his grounds as there is no more food for them
so they are asking for help to feed them
from the locals.

These Rebals do not seem to have a leader
although as temp PM is now in charge
Elections in May.


They are now saying they can not confirm if the president did leave
by Helicopter, they are not sure.

[arista]

Russian Naval Ships are getting close
maybe to take the Ex-President away if he is still there,
or something else.

The Ukraine nation is around 48million
in population but its bankrupt.
With so called Elections not going on until May
anything can happen.


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/24/291706/default/v1/2014-02-24t142225z-2027606053-gm1ea2o1q2h01-rtrmadp-3-ukraine-crisis-1-340x192.jpg


http://news.sky.com/story/1216255/ukraine-president-wanted-for-mass-murder

Link For Kizzy
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/24/russia-ukraine-west-yanukovich

[Sticks]

I suspect President Viktor Yanukovych will soon be back in power, courtesy of several divisions of Russian tanks, invited in by the Russian speaking population.

The Russians have already said that what has happened is a threat to it's security.

When the invasion takes place, any time soon, that means the Paralympic games in Sochi will be cancelled, but who cares about them..

[Nedusa]

I suspect President Viktor Yanukovych will soon be back in power, courtesy of several divisions of Russian tanks, invited in by the Russian speaking population.

The Russians have already said that what has happened is a threat to it's security.

When the invasion takes place, any time soon, that means the Paralympic games in Sochi will be cancelled, but who cares about them..

Yes it does look like the legitimately elected Ukranian Govt has been overthrown by by bunch of protesters with massive covert western backing. The support from Western Govt's to incite and inflamme this simple protest into a virtual civil war is truly shocking.

Yanukovych must shoulder a lot of the blame for his ineptitude in handling this situation but there are other forces and agendas at work here, Russia knows it and is furious with Yanukovych's handling of this crisis.

But Putin is probably even more furious with the West in interfering with a Country so closely aligned to Russia and so close geographically. He will not allow Ukraine to become hostile to Russia, too many of Russia's interests are at stake here not least their access to Black sea ports and Med and Atlantic.

Putin will be considering sending in some form of Military force but is mindful of the consequences of over playing his hand.

One thing is certain though he will not sit idly by and watch the west tiptoe in through the backdoor. !!

[arista]

I suspect President Viktor Yanukovych will soon be back in power, courtesy of several divisions of Russian tanks, invited in by the Russian speaking population.

The Russians have already said that what has happened is a threat to it's security.

When the invasion takes place, any time soon, that means the Paralympic games in Sochi will be cancelled, but who cares about them..



No they want him for murder
so he would be killed if Russia tried that


The Care is due to Gas pipelines

[Nedusa]

Just a thought but it's funny how the Syrian civil war has gone very quiet recently, perhaps the west has given up on that particular front and are now turning their attention to the Ukraine.

the Coverage on Sky really is blanket coverage at moment......24 News channels struggle to find enough news to fill the air time so we get the same scenes, the same interviews and the same pictures put out constantly on a loop every 15 mins, really annoying showing the same segment over and over again.

[MTVN]

It's pretty clear now that Russia doesn't effectively run Ukraine like was being presented at the start of this crisis, if they did you can be sure that Yanukovych wouldn't have fallen so easily. It's odd that whenever Russia looks to protect its interests in countries they're accused of just imposing their tyranny on them, and when any leader considers their interests to be more aligned with Russia they're accused of just being a puppet of Moscow. It's entirely reasonable why Russia would want a certain amount of influence in Ukraine and it's understandable why a lot of Ukrainians would support these ties with the East, considering that the country was a part of Russian for centuries.

At least the UK so far is approaching this pretty hesitantly, we don't want to rush into backing what seems like quite a diverse opposition with some sinister elements in a complex situation like this

[Nedusa]

It's pretty clear now that Russia doesn't effectively run Ukraine like was being presented at the start of this crisis, if they did you can be sure that Yanukovych wouldn't have fallen so easily. It's odd that whenever Russia looks to protect its interests in countries they're accused of just imposing their tyranny on them, and when any leader considers their interests to be more aligned with Russia they're accused of just being a puppet of Moscow. It's entirely reasonable why Russia would want a certain amount of influence in Ukraine and it's understandable why a lot of Ukrainians would support these ties with the East, considering that the country was a part of Russian for centuries.

At least the UK so far is approaching this pretty hesitantly, we don't want to rush into backing what seems like quite a diverse opposition with some sinister elements in a complex situation like this

Like we did in Syria ??:blush:

[arista]

It's pretty clear now that Russia doesn't effectively run Ukraine like was being presented at the start of this crisis, if they did you can be sure that Yanukovych wouldn't have fallen so easily. It's odd that whenever Russia looks to protect its interests in countries they're accused of just imposing their tyranny on them, and when any leader considers their interests to be more aligned with Russia they're accused of just being a puppet of Moscow. It's entirely reasonable why Russia would want a certain amount of influence in Ukraine and it's understandable why a lot of Ukrainians would support these ties with the East, considering that the country was a part of Russian for centuries.

At least the UK so far is approaching this pretty hesitantly, we don't want to rush into backing what seems like quite a diverse opposition with some sinister elements in a complex situation like this



Yes a Hard Nation to Unite

Maybe The Boxer could do it (if he is not Shot, of course)

[Z]

It's pretty clear now that Russia doesn't effectively run Ukraine like was being presented at the start of this crisis, if they did you can be sure that Yanukovych wouldn't have fallen so easily. It's odd that whenever Russia looks to protect its interests in countries they're accused of just imposing their tyranny on them, and when any leader considers their interests to be more aligned with Russia they're accused of just being a puppet of Moscow. It's entirely reasonable why Russia would want a certain amount of influence in Ukraine and it's understandable why a lot of Ukrainians would support these ties with the East, considering that the country was a part of Russian for centuries.

At least the UK so far is approaching this pretty hesitantly, we don't want to rush into backing what seems like quite a diverse opposition with some sinister elements in a complex situation like this

Yeah that was just pro-EU propaganda really. Ukraine is essentially caught between a rock and a hard place and the only way out is through the emergency exit. Move towards Russia and it's condemned to poverty and being a victim of Russia's gas pricing monopoly; move towards the EU and face harsh consequences from Russia's gas pricing monopoly. That's really the only thing keeping it pinned in this weird no man's land, politically.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/26/292236/default/v1/indy-1-329x437.jpg

Bring it on Russia

[Z]

I attended a panel discussion this evening, featuring four Ukrainians (a journalist, an activist, a student and a priest) who were talking about the events in Ukraine at the moment. Very informative and eye opening.

[lostalex]

I attended a panel discussion this evening, featuring four Ukrainians (a journalist, an activist, a student and a priest) who were talking about the events in Ukraine at the moment. Very informative and eye opening.

and what did they say? Are they hopeful for the future of Ukraine? do they see recent events as positive or negative? What did they have to say about Russia's involvement? what did they say about the EU and US's involvement?

Tell us more. inquiring minds want to know.

[Z]

and what did they say? Are they hopeful for the future of Ukraine? do they see recent events as positive or negative? What did they have to say about Russia's involvement? what did they say about the EU and US's involvement?

Tell us more. inquiring minds want to know.

Opinion was split right down the middle. Two of them thought the future was looking positive, two thought it was negative. Nobody thought there was any real risk of separatist movements gaining any traction because the protests have been happening all over the country, there's no clear geographical distinction between pro-EU and pro-Russia. In the east, people are richer because of ties with Russia which is why they're anti-EU but there have also been plenty of protests dotted about there so it's not like the east is unified in its Russia support, same with the west and its EU support, it's just not clear cut at all. They see recent events up until violence as positive but with the police actively shooting to kill things have turned ugly. They say that what's happening now is a rehash of the 2004 Orange Revolution, which was left unfinished because people assumed that the government would take over from all the good work the protesting people had done. That was not the case. They're all glad Tymoshenko is out of jail but none of them want to see her back in power. She may not have been guilty of what she was jailed for but she is not an innocent woman either. They don't support any of the current candidates touting themselves for leadership; many Ukrainian people would like to see a new face enter politics and take up leadership, there's an inherent mistrust now of all career politicians. They're all a bit scared that the Svoboda party (extremist, borderline fascist party with a leader who has made anti-Semitic comments in the past) might gain significant popular support. The priest in particular said that he felt that Russia has always been more interested in Ukraine than the other way round but nobody thinks it's likely that Russia will come storming in with tanks; although a recent development is that Russia is now offering Russian passports to people living in the Crimea - in Ukraine it's illegal to hold dual nationality status so this is quite an offensive manoeuvre designed to cause tension.

All in all a very interesting discussion!

[arista]

Crimean parliament seizure inflames
Russian-Ukrainian tensions - live updates

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/27/ukraine-pro-russian-gunmen-seize-crimea-parliament-live-updates
Nasty






Ukraine: Russia Puts Fighter Jets On Alert

http://news.sky.com/story/1218041/ukraine-russia-puts-fighter-jets-on-alert
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/27/292361/default/v1/fighters-1-626x352.jpg

[MTVN]

The Russians are coming

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/28/article-2569934-1BDE204000000578-768_634x410.jpg

[arista]

The President who ran off to Russia
is now speaking Live on all media


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/28/292769/default/v1/cegrab-20140228-131350-159-1-522x293.jpg
Fugitive president Viktor Yanukovich says he will continue
to fight for the future of Ukraine - and claims he has not been ousted.

http://news.sky.com/story/1218978/ukraines-ousted-president-vows-to-fight-on


He says he left to Stay Alive
he thanked his pilot that saved him.
he Blamed America for getting involved


I bet King Putin liked that

[arista]

The Russians are coming

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/28/article-2569934-1BDE204000000578-768_634x410.jpg


Only in their section
They are protecting
the Pro Russians in lower crimea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Crimea_in_Ukraine.svg/250px-Crimea_in_Ukraine.svg.png

The troops have removed the numbers /badges
and will not speak to Ch4news.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Europe-Ukraine.svg/250px-Europe-Ukraine.svg.png

America can stay the Feck Away from Ukraine

[MTVN]

Yeah the Crimea is pretty undeniably Russian; ethnically, geographically and politically. Only even became Ukraine in the 50s when Khrushchev gave it to them as a strange present when he was apparently drunk.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/28/292837/default/v2/bhlva9gicaajcoc-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/28/292846/default/v1/bhl7oqyicaad1-z-1-329x437.jpg


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/28/292845/default/v2/bhl-dn6ieaagofi-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/2/28/292847/default/v1/bhmak-qciaazbww-1-329x437.png

[MTVN]

Who are you backing arista?

[arista]

Who are you backing arista?


Russia

[MTVN]

Russia

Good stuff

[Kizzy]

Did anyone really have a choice?

[GypsyGoth]

EP7nUALyK4k

[Crimson Dynamo]

EP7nUALyK4k

s
c
a
r
y

[arista]

Ukraine: Russia Approves Military Action

Bring it on - Feck off America

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/1/292918/default/v2/ukraine-composite-1-626x352.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1219302/ukraine-russia-approves-military-action

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/01/article-2570797-1BF0988100000578-410_634x439.jpg
[Clash: At least 5,000 Pro-Putin
protesters have taken to the streets
of Dontesk marching to parliament]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/28/article-2569934-1BEA8FF900000578-336_634x766.jpg


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/01/article-2570797-1BEFF9CD00000578-918_634x443.jpg
[Claimed control: Sergei Aksyonov, the pro-Russian prime minister
of the Crimea, claimed control of security forces today,
though the Ukrainian government has
said his election on Thursday is invalid]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570797/Dramatic-CCTV-footage-emerges-moment-suspected-Russian-military-STORM-Crimean-parliament-building-gas-masks-armed-silenced-machine-guns.html#ixzz2ul1Lt6qZ

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/01/article-2570797-1BF0227F00000578-111_634x413.jpg

[joeysteele]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/01/article-2570797-1BF0988100000578-410_634x439.jpg
[Clash: At least 5,000 Pro-Putin
protesters have taken to the streets
of Dontesk marching to parliament]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/28/article-2569934-1BEA8FF900000578-336_634x766.jpg


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/01/article-2570797-1BEFF9CD00000578-918_634x443.jpg
[Claimed control: Sergei Aksyonov, the pro-Russian prime minister
of the Crimea, claimed control of security forces today,
though the Ukrainian government has
said his election on Thursday is invalid]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570797/Dramatic-CCTV-footage-emerges-moment-suspected-Russian-military-STORM-Crimean-parliament-building-gas-masks-armed-silenced-machine-guns.html#ixzz2ul1Lt6qZ

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/01/article-2570797-1BF0227F00000578-111_634x413.jpg

Where do you see this going arista long term. I noticed I think you said elsewhere that the only solution was for Ukraine to be likely split into East and West.
That I agree with.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/1/292963/default/v1/observer-1-329x437.png

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/1/292958/default/v1/tele-1-329x437.png

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/1/292965/default/v2/sunday-times-1-329x437.png


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/1/292966/default/v1/independent-1-329x437.png

[arista]

Where do you see this going arista long term. I noticed I think you said elsewhere that the only solution was for Ukraine to be likely split into East and West.
That I agree with.

Yes the Russian speaking
people need their own Crimea

[joeysteele]

Yes the Russian speaking
people need their own Crimea

I agree, I think that is the likely only solution to this really.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/02/article-2571309-1BF6C0E800000578-984_634x420.jpg
[Carrying on as normal: A woman with shopping
walks past the unidentified
gunmen surrounding the base in Privolnoye]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/02/article-2570797-1BF3B55E00000578-163_634x445.jpg
90mins phone call with Putin
No Change

[lostalex]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/02/article-2571309-1BF6C0E800000578-984_634x420.jpg
[Carrying on as normal: A woman with shopping
walks past the unidentified
gunmen surrounding the base in Privolnoye]


A gentleman would have helped her with her bags. Putin's thugs are obviously not gentlemen.

[arista]

[UK and France pull out of G8
preparatory talks over Ukraine crisis
British foreign secretary says Ukrainian
sovereignty and territory violated following
Russia's decision to take military action
Britain and France have pulled out of
preparatory talks due to be held in
the coming days for the G8 summit
in Sochi following Russia's decision
to take military action in Ukraine.]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/02/uk-france-pull-out-g8-preparatory-talks-ukraine-russia-military


tit for tat



Sign Of The Times

[Sticks]

Maybe our winter Olympic athletes should hand their medals back out of protest

[lostalex]

Maybe our winter Olympic athletes should hand their medals back out of protest

all 3 of them? :joker:

[arista]

Maybe our winter Olympic athletes should hand their medals back out of protest


No they see Sport above Politics

[arista]

Local Russian Speaking Locals in Crimea
tell Putin to send more
to keep the Nazi's away from them

Reported on SkyNewsHD

[lostalex]

Local Russian Speaking Locals in Crimea
tell Putin to send more
to keep the Nazi's away from them

Reported on SkyNewsHD

the Russians are the Nazi's in this scenario, so that makes no sense.

So the Russians are saying they want to keep Crimea Russian, that sounds ethnically charged to me, they are saying that Crimea belongs to ETHINIC Russians... how is that not Nazi? but you claim the Ukrainian people who want Ukraine to be Ukrainian are Nazi??

[arista]

the Russians are the Nazi's in this scenario, so that makes no sense.


They in Crimea say the Nazi's are in the Ukraine side


do you know the History
of that place?

[Nedusa]

this is the most ridiculous non crisis I have ever seen. Russia holds all the cards ALL the cards, the West has nothing to say and can only shout like a toothless tiger with empty words and gestures.

Russia is after all only protecting it's military assets and has been asked to do so by the governor of the Crimea which has an agreement with Ukraine to allow Russian troops to protect its bases in the Crimea.

Europe can do nothing it cannot even offer financial support to Ukraine as it is broke, Russia on the other hand has already offered large amounts of money and in all likelihood Ukraine will have to accept.

This nonsense in the news is just the west trying not to loose face.......too late, now they should calm down and start talking with Mr Putin as elected leaders not spoilt brats who have chucked their toys out of their prams...!!!!

[arista]

this is the most ridiculous non crisis I have ever seen. Russia holds all the cards ALL the cards, the West has nothing to say and can only shout like a toothless tiger with empty words and gestures.

Russia is after all only protecting it's military assets and has been asked to do so by the governor of the Crimea which has an agreement with Ukraine to allow Russian troops to protect its bases in the Crimea.

Europe can do nothing it cannot even offer financial support to Ukraine as it is broke, Russia on the other hand has already offered large amounts of money and in all likelihood Ukraine will have to accept.

This nonsense in the news is just the west trying not to loose face.......too late, now they should calm down and start talking with Mr Putin as elected leaders not spoilt brats who have chucked their toys out of their prams...!!!!

Bang On Right.
If only Americans could understand that

[Sticks]

No they see Sport above Politics

So by keeping them they agree with military aggression, just like those commie athletes in 1980 did by attending the Moscow Olympics when the Russians had invaded Afghanistan.

Sport and politics do mix...

Those medals are tainted with innocent blood and should be sent back...

[arista]

So by keeping them they agree with military aggression, just like those commie athletes in 1980 did by attending the Moscow Olympics when the Russians had invaded Afghanistan.

Sport and politics do mix...

Those medals are tainted with innocent blood and should be sent back...


You can say that
But they do not care

[lostalex]

Bang On Right.
If only Americans could understand that

Americans? America has nothing to do with this! You obviously believe Russian propaganda, using America as a scapegoat,. WTF has America done besides speak out against the violence by the OLD government against protesters?

America supports a strong united Europe, and we believe joining the EU is a valid aspiration for the Ukraine. the EU is a strong institution, a just institution, aswell as a solid economic partnership between European countries that benefits all nations that participate. It's not surprising that many Ukrainians aspire to be part of that union.

You need to stop getting your news from Russia Today.

[lostalex]

Should southern California be allowed to become part of Mexico just because there are a lot of people of Mexican heritage living in southern California?

by your logic, we better kick all the Mexicans out now, because you think they have a right to annex part of California just because they speak spanish?

It sets a dangerous precedent, it's basically saying we should fear foreigners, because if there's too many of them, then they have a legitimate right to annex part of our country!

[arista]

Americans? America has nothing to do with this! You obviously believe Russian propaganda, using America as a scapegoat,. WTF has America done besides speak out against the violence by the OLD government against protesters?

America supports a strong united Europe, and we believe the EU is a valid aspiration for the Ukraine.

You need to stop getting your news from Russia Today.


No I do not
but I understand it far better.
I have had FoxNewsHD on today
I like Housecall and Mediabuzz



America has done nothing but talk
so nothing new there.

[arista]

Should southern California be allowed to become part of Mexico just because there are a lot of people of Mexican heritage living in southern California?

by your logic, we better kick all the Mexicans out now, because you think they have a right to annex part of California just because they speak spanish?

It sets a dangerous precedent, it's basically saying we should fear foreigners, because if there's too many of them, then they have a legitimate right to annex part of our country!


No who would serve the Food
when I visit your floodland

[lostalex]

No who would serve the Food
when I visit your floodland

floodland? we're having a drought.

[arista]

floodland? we're having a drought.
yes then the Rain came

[lostalex]

yes then the Rain came

you Brits can't talk about floods, mmkay....:joker:

[MTVN]

Should southern California be allowed to become part of Mexico just because there are a lot of people of Mexican heritage living in southern California?

by your logic, we better kick all the Mexicans out now, because you think they have a right to annex part of California just because they speak spanish?

It sets a dangerous precedent, it's basically saying we should fear foreigners, because if there's too many of them, then they have a legitimate right to annex part of our country!

Except Crimea has always been Russian, it only became a part of Ukraine in the 50s when Khruschev gave it to them as a present when he was allegedly drunk, it might not have mattered then when all of Ukraine was under the Soviet umbrella but now that it's an independent state it leaves a region that is ethnically, geographically, linguistically and politically Russian in a different country altogether

[lostalex]

It's my understanding that the Russian Parliament has decided to issue Russian citizenship and passports to all of the ethnic Russians in Crimea... so if they want to be Russian, they are now free to go and be Russian.

If they want to be Ukrainian, then they must respect the sovereignty of the Ukraine, and the goverment of the Ukraine. they cannot have their fingers in both pots.

It is TREASONOUS, to welcome an invading army the way some in the Crimea have welcomed these Russian thugs. Russia has been interfering and controlling the Ukrainian government for years now, and Ukrainians are sick of it. and i don't blame them.

[arista]

It's my understanding that the Russian Parliament has decided to issue Russian citizenship and passports to all of the ethnic Russians in Crimea... so if they want to be Russian, they are now free to go and be Russian.

If they want to be Ukrainian, then they must respect the sovereignty of the Ukraine, and the goverment of the Ukraine. they cannot have their fingers in both pots.


yes but it seems they have done that for years.

[lostalex]

The threats about the gas pipelines are nothing short of extortion and blackmail. the Ukrainian people have been under the thumb of the Russians for centuries. They want a legitimate representation of their UKRAINIAN VOICES in their government, they don't want to be Russia's puppet any longer. Really, by definition it has been Aparteid in Ukraine, the ethnic russians are the minority, but the Russians have had most of the power. and the Ukrainians are sick of it. The majority should have power, Ukraine is meant to be a sovereign state.

I don't see why that is hard for anyone to understand.

[lostalex]

Except Crimea has always been Russian, it only became a part of Ukraine in the 50s when Khruschev gave it to them as a present when he was allegedly drunk, it might not have mattered then when all of Ukraine was under the Soviet umbrella but now that it's an independent state it leaves a region that is ethnically, geographically, linguistically and politically Russian in a different country altogether

How can they still be called Russian if they have been in Crimea(Ukraine) for so long? just because of their language? there are tons of French speakers in Belgium, does that make them French? There are tons of Swedish speakers in Finland, does that make them Swedish?

[MTVN]

How can they still be called Russian if they have been in Crimea(Ukraine) for so long? just because of their language? there are tons of French speakers in Belgium, does that make them French? There are tons of Swedish speakers in Finland, does that make them Swedish?

50 years isn't that long compared to the hundreds where it was a part of Russia, and even then it's only since the USSR broke up that Crimea came totally under the control of Ukraine as an independent state rather than still being in the Soviet umbrella, it's only been kept pacified by having a lot of autonomy and having power devolved from Ukraine. It's no surprise that the Crimeans resent having had no say at all in the change of government and getting ruled by Kiev. I imagine it's a similar feeling to how a lot of the Scots feel about seemingly being ruled by a government that doesn't represent them down in London

[arista]

The threats about the gas pipelines are nothing short of extortion and blackmail. the Ukrainian people have been under the thumb of the Russians for centuries. They want a legitimate representation of their UKRAINIAN VOICES in their government, they don't want to be Russia's puppet any longer. Really, by definition it has been Aparteid in Ukraine, the ethnic russians are the minority, but the Russians have had most of the power. and the Ukrainians are sick of it. The majority should have power, Ukraine is meant to be a sovereign state.

I don't see why that is hard for anyone to understand.


If thats so
Why did they let Russia have a Base in Crimea?

[lostalex]

50 years isn't that long compared to the hundreds where it was a part of Russia, and even then it's only since the USSR broke up that Crimea came totally under the control of Ukraine as an independent state rather than still being in the Soviet umbrella, it's only been kept pacified by having a lot of autonomy and having power devolved from Ukraine. It's no surprise that the Crimeans resent having had no say at all in the change of government and getting ruled by Kiev. I imagine it's a similar feeling to how a lot of the Scots feel about seemingly being ruled by a government that doesn't represent them down in London


well that's an interesting parallel you bring up. so do you want Scotland to be a separate country? or would you prefer The UK retained it's current territorial borders.

[MTVN]

well that's an interesting parallel you bring up. so do you want Scotland to be a separate country?

I don't personally, though if they want to be they should have that right

[arista]

well that's an interesting parallel you bring up. so do you want Scotland to be a separate country?


Yes it would be great
Getting rid of so many Labour politicians

[lostalex]

Yes it would be great
Getting rid of so many Labour politicians

you just sound mean.

[arista]

you just sound mean.


No I just know how much damage Labour does to us.

[lostalex]

I don't personally, though if they want to be they should have that right


and what if there was a community in england, say of jamaicans, or polish, who decided they don't want to be english anymore, would you also support them if they had a democratic vote and decided to have their own polish or jamaican country in england?

[MTVN]

and what if there was a community in england, say of jamaicans, or polish, who decided they don't want to be english anymore, would you also support them if they had a democratic vote and decided to have their own polish or jamaican country in england?

No but again that's a different situation lol, these aren't pockets of foreigners we're talking about here

[arista]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Yalta_summit_1945_with_Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_S talin.jpg/742px-Yalta_summit_1945_with_Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_S talin.jpg
The "Big Three" at the Yalta Conference in Crimea: Winston Churchill, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Joseph Stalin
1945

[lostalex]

No but again that's a different situation lol, these aren't pockets of foreigners we're talking about here

but you're saying historically, historically anglo-saxons invaded from the continent, and the celts only have rights to this island, right?

[arista]

On Ch4News
locals just said they are from all 3 nations
they love the Russians


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/02/article-2571309-1BF6222A00000578-30_634x400.jpg

[Z]

The Crimea was gifted to the Ukraine during Soviet times so it's really only been separate from Russia since 1991 when the USSR collapsed. That's 23 years; it's not like it's been a particularly long time.

[lostalex]

On Ch4News
locals just said they are from all 3 nations
they love the Russians


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/02/article-2571309-1BF6222A00000578-30_634x400.jpg

well of course, the people who disagree are probably terrified and hiding in their homes in the Crimea right now, the Russia military is in town. would you come out and talk if you disagreed with the Russians?

Poor people intimidated by the Russian military. They know they would be dragged into the streets and beaten.

That pic you posted is SCARY AS ****~!~!~

I know i would be scared if i saw those guys outside my door.

[lostalex]

The Crimea was gifted to the Ukraine during Soviet times so it's really only been separate from Russia since 1991 when the USSR collapsed. That's 23 years; it's not like it's been a particularly long time.

But the amount of time Ukrainians have been terrorized and intimidated by Russians is much longer than 23 years.

[smeagol]

more war,

worst mistake in history was the russian one. germany knew it. we knew it. the u.s knew it.
now look at it. missed chances
its crazy why are we getting involved now. let them get on with it. and so should the u.s

[Z]

But the amount of time Ukrainians have been terrorized and intimidated by Russians is much longer than 23 years.

Of course, but in the first instance that is why there is such a strong link between Russia and the Crimea. Historically it was never part of Ukrainian territory. There is a significant minority of Russians in the Ukraine which is why Russia considers it part of its sphere of influence. Same goes for Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, Georgia, Azerbaijan etc etc etc... where there are large numbers of Russian people, Russia will always show an interest. It arguably uses energy like a carrot and stick (I'm writing my dissertation about this topic at the moment) - the carrot to reward; the stick to punish. It's a very interesting country and I'm intrigued to see what happens next. I hope no more lives are lost.

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/3/2/1393793316990/ukraine-mark3-011.jpg
many love Putin

[lostalex]

Mardi Gras parade in Sydney to send political message to Russian president Vladimir Putin

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-01/mardi-gras-to-send-political-message-to-vladimir-putin/5292636

http://www.gaynz.com/articles/uploads/3/Putin_Mardi_Gras___JoannaWoodburn_.jpg


The Aussies try hard... bless them.

[MTVN]

more war,

worst mistake in history was the russian one. germany knew it. we knew it. the u.s knew it.
now look at it. missed chances
its crazy why are we getting involved now. let them get on with it. and so should the u.s

Which mistake is that :suspect:

[Me. I Am Salman]

I hope Putin dies slowly

[Novo]

I hope Obama does at the hands of Putin

[lostalex]

I hope Obama does at the hands of Putin

That's disgusting. shame on you.

In what possible way do you think that would make the world better?

[Novo]

I think that reply was suppose to be for Salman but you quoted my post by accident

[MTVN]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/2/293062/default/v1/the-sun-1-329x437.jpg

[lostalex]

I think that reply was suppose to be for Salman but you quoted my post by accident

no, i was responding to you saying you hope that Obama dies slowly at the hands of Putin, you said that right?

WTF

[Liberty4eva]

I wish the West would butt out. How on earth is it a matter the US and UK should be involved in?

[lostalex]

I wish the West would butt out. How on earth is it a matter the US and UK should be involved in?

If the US butted out, you'd be a soviet republic right now,. all of Europe would be part of the USSR since 1945, and i'm sure Putin wishes that alternate past had happened. he's clearly trying to build a new USSR.

The only reason all of Europe was not absorbed by the Russians is because of the USA. And even though the Russians got half of Europe back then, we;'ve been working hard to free eastern Europe from them the whole time. The USA fought the cold war for YOU, don;'t forget that.

[Shaun]

alex taking his americanadrama against a fellow patriot #awks

[lostalex]

alex taking his americanadrama against a fellow patriot #awks

I'm used to it, don't worry. Teenagers hating america, it's a typical teenage phase. he'll wake up when he's 30.

Americans that hate America, i went through that phase too. he's gonna start educating himself, and trust me, 6 years from now, he'll be laughing about how silly he was when he was younger. he'll tell stories about how he supported Putin in the Crimea war when he was younger at a 4th of July Barbecue. everyone will laugh and have a beer.

[lostalex]

on a serious note though, Russia needs to back the **** off. Putin is about to piss off his best customers, the EU...

I thought the customer is always right? Russian service is appalling. Putin needs to learn how to be a better host. especially after his failed olympics and his now failed g8 summit.

looks like he can't do anything right.

[Novo]

Piss off the Olympics were a success, they showed how athletically dominate they were over you lot

[lostalex]

Piss off the Olympics were a success, they showed how athletically dominate they were over you lot

yea, Russians are good at winter sports, considering they live in the arctic, they should be... especially after billions of dollars are pumped into it, shock/surprise. Obviously tyne host nation has an advantage, in both the judging, but also just in home field advantage... but the whole thing was a disaster because i don';t think anyone who watched the olympics came away having respect for the host nation... it felt like a soul-less olympics. it was like watching an animation of the olympics. it didn't feel real, there was no soul in it, we came away feeling like we got it done and over with. we saw what Putin wanted us to see, and nothing more. No one will remember those games fondly.

no one was impressed. it wasn't special in any way.

there was no heart in the Sochi games.

[Novo]

Think your forgetting when Sotnikova won the Gold it was the most passionate and emotional scene in Olympics history maybe only matched in 2012 when GSTQ was ringing around the Olympic stadium and Jess Ennis was in tears on the Podium

[lostalex]

Think your forgetting when Sotnikova won the Gold it was the most passionate and emotional scene in Olympics history maybe only matched in 2012 when GSTQ was ringing around the Olympic stadium and Jess Ennis was in tears on the Podium

is that the russian girl who clearly stole the gold from the better japanese figure skater?

That was heartless and heartbreaking.

It's just pathetic when everyone knows the gold medal isn't earned.

geo-political issues aside, it stole a medal from a girl who had worked her whole life and deserved it. i don't know how anyone can not have sympathy for that Japanese girl./ she skated her ass off, and deserved it.

It made me ashamed to be a human. I thought the olympics were supposed to make me proud to be human. It's supposed to celebrate the best of mankind. instead, we felt like mankind is just as selfish as we suspected.

thanks for confirming that Putin, it made my fragile heart shrivel 1 size smaller. :(

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/2/293062/default/v1/the-sun-1-329x437.jpg

Yes
as America can do Feck All.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/2/293055/default/v1/daily-mirror-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/2/293066/default/v1/i-1-329x437.jpg

[lostalex]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/2/293055/default/v1/daily-mirror-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/2/293066/default/v1/i-1-329x437.jpg

Why are the British press being so easy on Putin?

This ain't Churchill's Britain, that's for sure. hmmmph.

[arista]

Why are the British press being so easy on Putin?

This ain't Churchill's Britain, that's for sure. hmmmph.

At this time no blood has gone down
Putin is stronger than USA
he did not invade Iraq.

[lostalex]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Yalta_summit_1945_with_Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_S talin.jpg/742px-Yalta_summit_1945_with_Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_S talin.jpg
The "Big Three" at the Yalta Conference in Crimea: Winston Churchill, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Joseph Stalin
1945

you can definitely tell who is the odd man out in that photo :joker:

FDR is such an amazing man. especially considering his disability. he literally saved the world. I love FDR so much, and his wife too, Eleanor was an amazing woman.

[lostalex]

At this time no blood has gone down
Putin is stronger than USA
he did not invade Iraq.

But he invaded Georgia at the last olympics if i remember correctly...

[Novo]

He was a small factor compared to Churchill and Stalin, Churchill destroyed them from the skies and Stalin sent Zhurkov and the troops into Berlin to end the war, a combined effort from Britain and Russia

[lostalex]

He was a small factor compared to Churchill and Stalin, Churchill destroyed them from the skies and Stalin sent Zhurkov and the troops into Berlin to end the war, a combined effort from Britain and Russia

not really, Britain was losing before Churchill came to America on bended knee, begging FDR for help. remember that? Britain was Losing, you begged for our help, and we gave you help, and then we won. That's how i remember it./

you came begging to America because you were losing, and then we saved you. that's what happened.

They don't teach you those basic facts in English schools?

[Novo]

The way I remember it Churchill and Stalin were buddies on the highroad, the world was their Oyster and they were going to write history and double team Germany and take Hitler down and that's the way it all worked out, Russia and Britain took the fight to Hitler whilst America sent a handful of troops, everyone remembers the battle of Britian and everyone remembers Russia's surge into Berlin but no one remembers anything about America apart from savagely nuking Japan in the most cowardly attack in the history of time in comparison to Russia taking on Germany head first on the ground.

[arista]

But he invaded Georgia at the last olympics if i remember correctly...


Yes he had to due to Evil Terrorists

America/UK invaded Iraq for a Fecking Fake Reason

[lostalex]

Yes he had to due to Evil Terrorists

America/UK invaded Iraq for a Fecking Fake Reason

it wasn't a fake reason... it was jus a continuation of the 90's war, we gave Saddam plenty of chances to prove he didn't have WMD's are we really going over this again???

you don't give a **** about the Iraqi people, so stop using them as an excuse for your support of Putin.

[lostalex]

The way I remember it Churchill and Stalin were buddies on the highroad, the world was their Oyster and they were going to write history and double team Germany and take Hitler down and that's the way it all worked out, Russia and Britain took the fight to Hitler whilst America sent a handful of troops, everyone remembers the battle of Britian and everyone remembers Russia's surge into Berlin but no one remembers anything about America apart from savagely nuking Japan in the most cowardly attack in the history of time in comparison to Russia taking on Germany head first on the ground.

lol cowardly? so what do you call all of the kamikaze's?? you don't call that cowardly? the japanese invented modern TERRORISM> wake the **** up/

the japanese deserved the bomb. If anyone deserved a few nukes up their ass it was definitely japan. no doubt about that.

[arista]

lol cowardly? so what do you call all of the kamikaze's?? you don't call that cowardly? the japanese invented modern TERRORISM> wake the **** up/

the japanese deserved the bomb. If anyone deserved a few nukes up their ass it was definitely japan. no doubt about that.


Evil Kamikaze was Brave
like the Evil crew from Saudi that did 9/11.

And yes Japan inspired many

But still for Top Electronics I will buy direct from Japan
more than China.

Yes a Nuke on Japan was needed
but America did to many
in order to test them.

[arista]

it wasn't a fake reason... it was jus a continuation of the 90's war, we gave Saddam plenty of chances to prove he didn't have WMD's are we really going over this again???

you don't give a **** about the Iraqi people, so stop using them as an excuse for your support of Putin.


It was Weapons of Mass Destruction
But None we ever found


Fake reason to Invade
Evil Bush/Blair

[lostalex]

Evil Kamikaze was Brave
like the Evil crew from Saudi that did 9/11.

And yes Japan inspired many

But still for Top Electronics I will buy direct from Japan
more than China.

Yes a Nuke on Japan was needed
but America did to many
in order to test them.
we tested them on our own soil before we ever dropped the bomb on japan. Technically the first country to ever be attacked with nuclear weapons was the US, not Japan.

anyways it's stupid to even talk about. obvious the USA saved the world in ww2 with the nuclear bombs. Japan is a very successful country BECAUSE of America, South Korea is very Successful because of America, all of western Europe lis very successful because of America... there's no way to dispute any of this. America saved the world after ww2.

Russia on the other hand, tried to ruin the world after ww2.

[arista]

we tested them on our own soil before we ever dropped the bomb on japan. Technically the first country to ever be attacked with nuclear weapons was the US, not Japan.

That was in Blank Zone Deserts - You having a Laugh

They wanted the Death Count
and they got it.

[lostalex]

That was in Blank Zone Deserts - You having a Laugh

They wanted the Death Count
and they got it.

no, we only targeted militarily significant points. Unfortunately, Japan was cowardly, and put their strategic resources in the middle of heavily populated areas.

Just like Muslims are cowardly these days, and surround themselves with women and children, thinking it will be a human shield.

[arista]

no, we only targeted militarily significant points. Unfortunately, Japan was cowardly, and put their strategic resources in the middle of heavily populated areas.

Just like Muslims are cowardly these days, and surround themselves with women and children, thinking it will be a human shield.


Cowards are the Current USA President
who murders public and terrorist in one
Drone evil bomb
He is doing more Drones than Bush wanted to.

[lostalex]

Cowards are the Current USA President
who murders public and terrorist in one
Drone evil bomb
He is doing more Drones than Bush wanted to.

i definitely disagree with you about that. no need to even elaborate, we just disagree completely on that lol.

[arista]

i definitely disagree with you about that. no need to even elaborate, we just disagree completely on that lol.


Yes we are in 2 Worlds


I am against American Drones that Kill Public at the same time of a terrorist

You Do not give a Feck about the public
killed by USA Evil Drones

[lostalex]

Yes we are in 2 Worlds


I am against Drones that Kill Public at the same time of a terrorist

You Do not give a Feck about the public
killed by USA Evil Drones

no country has done more to invest in technology and strategies than the USA to avoid civilian casualties in war. The USA is a saint in that regard. No country has ever done it better.

Avoiding civilian casualties is something America can definitely be proud of.

[lostalex]

bye arista, time for me to get some rest from this weary world, i get to have some fun in fantasy. g'night.

sweet dreams for me..., hopefully some day soon for Ukrainians too...

JG0pegmmB5A

[Nedusa]

+++++ Breaking News +++++
Russia's Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday to surrender or face an all-out assault, according to Ukrainian defence ministry sources quoted by Interfax-Ukraine news agency. "If by 5am tomorrow morning they do not surrender a real assault will begin on units and sections of the Ukrainian armed forces all over Crimea," defence ministry officials are quoted as saying. So far there is no further confirmation of the ultimatum from other sources.

Looks like the Russians are quite serious about defending their military assets in the Crimea.....

This is like a game of Poker with very very high stakes....!!!!!!

[Brother Leon]

Arista preaching the truth.

[Z]

I honestly have no idea what's going to happen next. I think the world will give in to Russia's domineering tactics and it's going to cause one hell of a legislative reaction within the EU, NATO and all other pre-existing anti-Russia organisations. It's a pity my dissertation is due in April because I suspect that there will be a great deal of measures taken against Russian interference that'll be led by Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland.

[Nedusa]

Don't forget the Crimea was a Russian Province within the USSR until 1954 when Nikita Kruschev gave it to the Ukraine.

So when the USSR broke up in 1991 Crimea became part of the Ukraine even though 60% of the Population are Russian.

This caused great anger in Russia which still exists to this day. But the Black sea Naval bases in Sevastopol are Russia's main priority, the new govt in Kiev is threatening to renege on a treaty that allows Russia free movement of it's troops to it's military bases.

This is the red line that Russia must uphold, it must have unfettered access to it's military bases so to be honest the West has meddled in the affairs of Ukraine probably to achieve this very outcome.

Very dangerous game to play............

[Z]

Most countries that were under the USSR sphere of influence have an irrational fear of Russia's ability to wade into their territory at any time and not have the West do anything about it, that fear was especially aggravated in 2008 when Russia strolled into Georgia for five days and scared the daylights of every former Soviet Union territory that they could be next. That Russia has sent in the big boys to the Crimea now is not surprising, and again, because Ukraine's not part of institutional Europe's sphere of influence, nothing is being done. I fully expect to see gas market reforms being pushed onto the agenda once again by former USSR EU members who are rationally yet irrationally afraid that Russia can and will do this to them too.

[Nedusa]

I don't think this situation will cause the return of the "cold War" this situation is more likely to go "hot" very quickly

[Z]

I don't think this situation will cause the return of the "cold War" this situation is more likely to go "hot" very quickly

If it turns hot, it'll be between Ukraine and Russia. The Western world has, for the last 70 years, set in place a variety of measures to ensure that the great world powers never go to war against each other ever again. Of course, many will argue that if the USA, UK et al can wade into Iraq or Afghanistan then Russia can wade into Ukraine to protect its interests and its people. It's no less a legitimate thing to do than going in to fight terrorism or find weapons of mass destruction. Russia has a huge population of ethnic Russians living in the Crimea and if the Ukraine is experiencing civil unrest then Russia will defend its peoples' interests.

[arista]

Yes Zee the press Hype it up.

Whats all this people with "save me " signs (on the Free Metro)

Save them from what ?
no blood yet.

Bloody American President has enough of a mess back home
he can not Stop Putin.

Typical Hype Photo
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/2/293060/default/v1/the-times-1-329x437.jpg

[Sticks]

we tested them on our own soil before we ever dropped the bomb on japan. Technically the first country to ever be attacked with nuclear weapons was the US, not Japan.


Sorry, but a weapons test in a piece of wasteland or a desert with nobody around can not be seen as an attack. Two attacks on two cities can.

There is an argument that the real reason the bombs were dropped was to show the Russians that the US had this technology

The counter argument was that the Japanese mindset was such that they needed to get the emperor to order a surrender or else the war would drag on with more lives lost on both sides.

Also your view of WW2 takes no account of the work of Bletchley Park and the cracking of both the Enigma codes and the Tunni Codes.

[arista]

Zee

Worst is the Gas Pipeline goes through Ukraine
with our Gas supply we use.

So Push Putin he can Turn off the Gas.



sanctions - fecking will not work
as Russia gets Supplys from China
and other nations that will not do sanctions


Its your Study - Zee
so gives us more.

[Z]

Zee

Worst is the Gas Pipeline goes through Ukraine
with our Gas supply we use.

So Push Putin he can Turn off the Gas.



sanctions - fecking will not work
as Russia gets Supplys from China
and other nations that will not do sanctions


Its your Study - Zee
so gives us more.

You have to remember that Russia is the world's leading gas supplier and it makes up a significant chunk of their economic gains. Turning off the gas is just as harmful to Russia as it is to the countries that lose out on gas - previous gas supply cut offs to Belarus and the Ukraine were what spurred western European nations to seek out alternative transit routes - that's why we have pipelines such as the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan route from Azerbaijan-Georgia-Turkey which was heavily supported by the USA. Russia itself sought to build new connections with Western Europe in light of those cut offs, it signed a deal with Gerhard Schroeder in 2005 to construct Nord Stream that goes directly from Russia to Germany through the Baltic Sea. There have not been any supply interruptions along that route since its inception. Germany and Russia are reliable trading partners to one another, Russia will not intentionally cut off that route because it's a market of 80 million people. While Russia may not want the West interfering in Ukraine, the West also forms the greatest share of its energy market. Putin could turn off the gas, but he'd also be deeply damaging Russia's economy if he did so on a large scale and for too long. Europe would continue to invest in projects such as Nabucco which have stalled over the last few years in order to bypass Russia as a supplier and transit country; that is not a situation which Russia would find acceptable so I doubt we'll see any situations where Russia intentionally cuts off the gas to harm its Western customers.

[arista]

"for too long."


Yes he can do what he wants if you push him.
So you think Putin will not have a reason to get nasty


Thats Something
tell the press

Infact can you not get down for Ch4HD News
and help Jon Snow

[Z]

"for too long."


Yes he can do what he wants if you push him.
So you think Putin will not have a reason to get nasty


Thats Something
tell the press

Infact can you not get down for Ch4HD News
and help Jon Snow

If Putin turns off the gas; Europe turns elsewhere for supplies. It would be economic suicide to do something that dramatic, Russia has spent the entire 21st century thus far building itself up to be an energy giant, it would not compromise that for anything. I'm not sure Channel 4 would want me :laugh: but to be honest I think it's just a load of scare mongering, the media claiming that Putin will turn off the gas and it'll affect western Europe. It's propaganda to get people listening to what's happening in Ukraine; the reality is that Putin has no interest in harming Western European energy interests because those are also Russian energy interests. It's a mutual interdependency; albeit slightly in Russia's favour, but interdependent nonetheless.

[Z]

And what do you know, just as I thought, Poland's already called for a NATO meeting...

Secretary General announces North Atlantic Council to meet following Poland's request for Article 4 consultations

The North Atlantic Council, which includes the ambassadors of all 28 NATO Allies, will meet on Tuesday 4 March, following a request by Poland under article 4 of NATO's founding Washington Treaty.

Under article 4 of the Treaty, any Ally can request consultations whenever, in the opinion of any of them, their territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened.

The developments in and around Ukraine are seen to constitute a threat to neighboring Allied countries and having direct and serious implications for the security and stability of the Euro-Atlantic area.


http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_107711.htm

[arista]

Ch4HD News
says no gas problems from Russia
just now



Live in Moscow now

[Z]

There won't be any gas problems. It's the leverage that's ensuring Western Europe doesn't get involved. Sadly for the Ukrainian people, this is largely down to them, help is not likely to be forthcoming because the Orange Revolution in 2004 failed to go far enough and align Ukraine with EU in time.

[arista]

Well put on Ch4News
Nothing is set by the West on what they can do.
Which people hate.

Scared of Putin

Tough Tittie


In America the President is Dithering- talking Live on FoxNewsHD and CNN

[GypsyGoth]

It's only the Ukraine, let Russia have it, it's not like it's one of the cool european countries. In fact we should give them Switzerland as well, I don't trust those ****ers.

[Livia]

It's only the Ukraine, let Russia have it, it's not like it's one of the cool european countries. In fact we should give them Switzerland as well, I don't trust those ****ers.

How's your application to the Diplomatic Corps going Gyps?

[GypsyGoth]

How's your application to the Diplomatic Corps going Gyps?

:laugh2:

[Livia]

:laugh2:

I think they should consider you as a successor to William Haig. Seriously, I'd vote for that...

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/02/article-2571309-1BF9187600000578-84_634x556.jpg

[GypsyGoth]

I think they should consider you as a successor to William Haig. Seriously, I'd vote for that...


:laugh:

Actually of the main issues I have is with the media coverage of it and it's the exact same media coverage they have when they pretend something serious is about to happen, like North Korea. When I looked at the news about that there were graphics, and experts all saying how dreadfully serious it all was and how we all should be worried. Yet nothing happened.

And this whole event is the same thing. It seems like a great exercise in news stations getting ratings.

Same with that Oscar guy, he either murdered his wife thinking he was murdering someone he didn't know, or he murderer her on purpose. He should get locked up and be forgotten about. Instead his trail has become some type of reality tv courtroom drama :cloud:

Maybe I shouldn't look at the news.

[Z]

It's only the Ukraine, let Russia have it, it's not like it's one of the cool european countries. In fact we should give them Switzerland as well, I don't trust those ****ers.

Switzerland has enough nuclear bomb shelters to house its entire population, and all its mountain passes are booby trapped. Let's get the ****ers.

[Scarlett.]

:laugh:

Actually of the main issues I have is with the media coverage of it and it's the exact same media coverage they have when they pretend something serious is about to happen, like North Korea. When I looked at the news about that there were graphics, and experts all saying how dreadfully serious it all was and how we all should be worried. Yet nothing happened.

And this whole event is the same thing. It seems like a great exercise in news stations getting ratings.

Same with that Oscar guy, he either murdered his wife thinking he was murdering someone he didn't know, or he murderer her on purpose. He should get locked up and be forgotten about. Instead his trail has become some type of reality tv courtroom drama :cloud:

Maybe I shouldn't look at the news.

To be fair, this isnt some pudgy dictator who cant even feed his own country threatening to launch nukes using Windows 95, this is Russia invading another country and threatening military action against Ukrainian soldiers if they dont cooperate within 40 minutes from now. It's something that is actually happening now. In the long run, I dont imagine any sort of large scale war will occour with Russia, but it's still big news, and worth covering.

[Nedusa]

Breathe easy..........Folks

It didn't happen, probably never was to be fair. just Mr Putin moving one of his chess pieces....

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/03/article-2571309-1C020E2F00000578-470_634x455.jpg

Dont Mess with him

[arista]

Putin Is Live Now on all media

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/4/293536/default/v2/cegrab-20140304-104210-139-1-626x352.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1220651/putin-i-hope-force-wont-be-needed-in-ukraine


Feel The Force

[Kizzy]

Ok, having watched it I was confused by one thing... well lots of things but this mainly.
He appeared in one section to have an issue with oligarchs, then when discussing the natural gas supply to the Ukraine he was suggesting it was good business sense to hike the price as they haven't paid at the 'special price'....
the minimum wage there is half that of Russia so how is that going to work?

[Z]

Ok, having watched it I was confused by one thing... well lots of things but this mainly.
He appeared in one section to have an issue with oligarchs, then when discussing the natural gas supply to the Ukraine he was suggesting it was good business sense to hike the price as they haven't paid at the 'special price'....
the minimum wage there is half that of Russia so how is that going to work?

It doesn't, to put it bluntly. Russia hikes the prices up to make Ukraine obedient. Comparatively, Belarus is practically swimming in all the extra gas it can afford because it's quite happy to play Little Russia for reduced gas prices. Lukashenko's a mental case though.

It is good business sense for Russia to charge premium prices for its gas though, it's how it makes its money, it's an energy superpower. Ukraine has a large population, Russia has gas to sell, Russia can similarly sell gas at any price it wants to different EU countries because it deals with them bilaterally and not at the aggregate EU level, there's no policy coordination in the EU for energy which is a shambles (I'm writing about that at the moment) - some countries have been trying to get energy security onto the EU agenda for some time now but it's been ignored by Western European countries who have no reason to worry about Russia cutting them off.

[Kizzy]

Is it right to do this though from a humanitarian perspective, they will effectively be an oligarch then? We have the option to heat or eat here, and it's bad enough, even though what we call poverty here will seem like luxury there. I'm guessing in the Ukraine if they do hike the gas price then people will die?

[arista]

Is it right to do this though from a humanitarian perspective, they will effectively be an oligarch then? We have the option to heat or eat here, and it's bad enough, even though what we call poverty here will seem like luxury there. I'm guessing in the Ukraine if they do hike the gas price then people will die?


No deaths


And this is not America's problem
they have enough of their own.

[Kizzy]

No deaths


And this is not America's problem
they have enough of their own.

People are dying here of fuel poverty in the winter it will be magnified there, and I never mentioned America....

[arista]

People are dying here of fuel poverty in the winter it will be magnified there, and I never mentioned America....

I know
but they want you to hear them
on this story.



fuel poverty
can change in time

[Z]

Is it right to do this though from a humanitarian perspective, they will effectively be an oligarch then? We have the option to heat or eat here, and it's bad enough, even though what we call poverty here will seem like luxury there. I'm guessing in the Ukraine if they do hike the gas price then people will die?

It's fairly immoral but a lot of capitalist practices are. If the EU had a joint policy regarding energy prices then it would limit Russia's ability to wield energy prices as a weapon at least in EU territory and would hopefully cause a chain reaction of reform so that Russia stops doing it to other European states which aren't in the EU. The gas trade at the moment is a bit of a coordination game, whereby countries are relying on Russia to choose to provide gas at affordable prices in order to maintain good business, but ideally it'll become a collaboration game, whereby any temptation to hike prices up essentially gets cancelled out because it would be raising the prices for hundreds of millions of people and if they refused to pay then they lose out on an entire market. The thing about Ukraine's gas prices is that Russia is also extremely lenient about receiving payments on time and will often takeover infrastructure in lieu of payments so it still gains and also has a tighter grip on the country. Very shady practice.

[King Gizzard]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/us-and-europe-on-brink-of-passive-aggressive-letter-to-putin-2014030484238 :joker:

[arista]

Russia Today presenter hits out at Moscow over Ukraine


Please Do Not Sack Sexy Abby.

http://disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/abby.jpg


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/russia-today-abby-martin-crimea-ukraine


[An American RTHD anchor on Russian state television has
delivered an emotional rebuke of Moscow's intervention
in Ukraine and criticised the media's biased news coverage.
Russia Today responded by saying it was sending
Abby Martin to Crimea so she could
learn more about the situation.]

[lostalex]

Russia Today presenter hits out at Moscow over Ukraine


Please Do Not Sack Sexy Abby.

http://disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/abby.jpg


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/russia-today-abby-martin-crimea-ukraine


[An American RTHD anchor on Russian state television has
delivered an emotional rebuke of Moscow's intervention
in Ukraine and criticised the media's biased news coverage.
Russia Today responded by saying it was sending
Abby Martin to Crimea so she could
learn more about the situation.]


sending her for "re-education". It really is the USSR all over again.

[Nedusa]

Russia Today presenter hits out at Moscow over Ukraine


Please Do Not Sack Sexy Abby.

http://disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/abby.jpg


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/russia-today-abby-martin-crimea-ukraine


[An American RTHD anchor on Russian state television has
delivered an emotional rebuke of Moscow's intervention
in Ukraine and criticised the media's biased news coverage.
Russia Today responded by saying it was sending
Abby Martin to Crimea so she could
learn more about the situation.]

Oh Well...........that's the end of that Job........shame really !!!

[Kizzy]

It's fairly immoral but a lot of capitalist practices are. If the EU had a joint policy regarding energy prices then it would limit Russia's ability to wield energy prices as a weapon at least in EU territory and would hopefully cause a chain reaction of reform so that Russia stops doing it to other European states which aren't in the EU. The gas trade at the moment is a bit of a coordination game, whereby countries are relying on Russia to choose to provide gas at affordable prices in order to maintain good business, but ideally it'll become a collaboration game, whereby any temptation to hike prices up essentially gets cancelled out because it would be raising the prices for hundreds of millions of people and if they refused to pay then they lose out on an entire market. The thing about Ukraine's gas prices is that Russia is also extremely lenient about receiving payments on time and will often takeover infrastructure in lieu of payments so it still gains and also has a tighter grip on the country. Very shady practice.

That is more or less what he said, he said Ukraine owed over a billion for feb and they were in danger of defaulting, so maybe thats the plan? they don't have to invade then if they control from within.

[arista]

Oh Well...........that's the end of that Job........shame really !!!


I hope not

[Z]

That is more or less what he said, he said Ukraine owed over a billion for feb and they were in danger of defaulting, so maybe thats the plan? they don't have to invade then if they control from within.

Exactly. Why would they annexe the Crimea into Russia's jurisdiction when they can have a presence in Ukrainian politics instead? That's why I don't think there'll be any separatist movement. The Crimea will remain part of Ukraine but always be under Russian control.

[Nedusa]

Exactly. Why would they annexe the Crimea into Russia's jurisdiction when they can have a presence in Ukrainian politics instead? That's why I don't think there'll be any separatist movement. The Crimea will remain part of Ukraine but always be under Russian control.

Actually I think the Crimea will become a self governing Autonomous region. Russia will definitely push for this outcome as at present they have to pay Ukraine $90M a year for the privilege of using the Military bases there.

If they can move the Crimea away from the Ukraine then they stand to gain financially.

[Liberty4eva]

I hate how we're calling Putin Hitler for doing something that was relatively mild compared to what we did in Iraq.

That Russia today reporter is obviously looking for a job on another television network.

[lostalex]

A second RT(Russia Today) News anchor has spoken out...

She says, that as an American, she cannot continue to whitewash the truth for Putin. Her grandparents escaped Russian brutality in Hungary to give her a better life in the USA.

Liz Wahl, we salute you. This is what balls of steel look like.

I'm proud of her. and I bet her grandparents are too.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/russia-today-anchor-liz-wahl-resigns-on-air-ukraine

2h79v9uirLY

[MTVN]

Silly woman

[arista]

A second RT(Russia Today) News anchor has spoken out...

She says, that as an American, she cannot continue to whitewash the truth for Putin. Her grandparents escaped Russian brutality in Hungary to give her a better life in the USA.

Liz Wahl, we salute you. This is what balls of steel look like.

I'm proud of her. and I bet her grandparents are too.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/russia-today-anchor-liz-wahl-resigns-on-air-ukraine



2h79v9uirLY


I hope FoxNewsHD give her a Job
or CNN America

I can understand why she has left.

[lostalex]

I expect to see Piers Morgan on RT soon, he can take her spot lol

he's a toad, he would fit right in. he'll say whatever the Russians tell him to.

[arista]

I expect to see Piers Morgan on RT soon, he can take her spot lol

he's a toad, he would fit right in. he'll say whatever the Russians tell him to.


CNN still have him for something
as long as he is not upsetting Americans


So he may get another late night show
a last stand

[lostalex]

I can understand why she has left.

Why do you think she left? and what do you respect about the reasons she resigned?


I think it's important for you to elaborate on these things. It's important for everyone to understand why we should respect her decision, don't you think?

[arista]

Why do you think she left? and what do you respect about the reasons she resigned?


I think it's important for you to elaborate on these things. It's important for everyone to understand why we should respect her decision, don't you think?



Because her family
would have told her,
but she knew it was a Putin funded station
before she signed up


Its great RT America is running now

[lostalex]

Because her family
would have told her,
but she knew it was a Putin funded station
before she signed up


Its great RT America is running now
because of her family? she's not a muslim, she isn't controlled by her family. She is a successful woman with a career. you honestly think she was pressured by her family?

I think it's clear listening to her that she felt that as a journalist she was being asked to spout lies on behalf of Putin, and she refused. She refused to let her mouth be raped by Putin's propaganda. She has her own voice now.

Anderson Cooper gets to the bottom of this issue! If you can't trust Anderson Cooper who can you trust?

K2d-OOSWT00

[arista]

because of her family? she's not a muslim, she isn't controlled by her family. She is a successful woman with a career. you honestly think she was pressured by her family?

I think it's clear listening to her that she felt that as a journalist she was being asked to spout lies on behalf of Putin, and she refused. She refused to let her mouth be raped by Putin's propaganda. She has her own voice now.

Anderson Cooper gets to the bottom of this issue! If you can't trust Anderson Cooper who can you trust?

K2d-OOSWT00


I think that was part of it
Yes clever of AC to get her on his show

[lostalex]

I wonder what you would do in her situation...

Would you speak up, like her? If you knew that you were being used as a mouthpiece for Putin?

I'm asking you Arista...... WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

http://n.b5z.net/zirw/z18b2/i/u/68100167/i//Aug11/0829wwyd.jpg

[arista]

I wonder what you would do in her situation...

Would you speak up, like her? If you knew that you were being used as a mouthpiece for Putin?

I'm asking you arista/ WHAT WOULD YOU DO?


No I would keep my Paid job
and follow the stations instructions
even if it upset me.
Paying the Bills and keeping money
and my company car would go above morals.


I would take out my anger on the Adult Game GTA5 on PS3
by killing cops



Life In The City

[lostalex]

No I would keep my Paid job
and follow the stations instructions
even if it upset me.
Paying the Bills and keeping money
and my company car would go above morals.


Life In The City

you realize that means I can't trust anything you say from now on right? you basically just said that you will say anything that benefits you, regardless of the truth.

don't you feel ashamed to say that?

[arista]

you realize that means I can't trust anything you say from now on right? you basically just said that you will say anything that benefits you, regardless of the truth.

don't you feel ashamed to say that?


No because I am Honest on here
I put all my cards on the table on tibb



If you work at RT
you know its funded by Russia and Putin,
before you start

[lostalex]

No because I am Honest on here
I put all my cards on the table on tibb



If you work at RT
you know its funded by Russia and Putin,
before you start

i wonder how honest now. not completely honest.

[lostalex]

You know how it is to start a new job, it's very confusing, no one really knows what a new job is right away. For the first month you are quite naive in any job.

[arista]

i wonder how honest now. not completely honest.


No I am on here.
Thats why TIBB is cool

[arista]

You know how it is to start a new job, it's very confusing, no one really knows what a new job is right away. For the first month you are quite naive in any job.


Workers at RT America
in Washington know before they sign up
for work that Putin has control
over the station.

RT News is a new type of news


Alex you are up late its 20 to 2 in the morning in California

[lostalex]

Workers at RT America
in Washington know before they sign up
for work that Putin has control
over the station.

RT News is a new type of news


Alex you are up late its 20 to 2 in the morning in California

I've been awake since 8pm Tuesday. (Pacific time)

I'm emotional, i'm fragile. i prefer the world to be fuzzy. i long for this state., don't make me feel guilty for it. I'm too tired to be angry. the angry part is my danger zone. i'm so sick of being angry.

I much prefer to feel fragile and tired, than angry.

[arista]

I've been awake since 8pm Tuesday. (Pacific time)

I'm emotional, i'm fragile. i prefer the world to be fuzzy. i long for this state., don't make me feel guilty for it. I'm too tired to be angry. the angry part is my danger zone. i'm so sick of being angry.



OK Alex
take it easy

[lostalex]

OK Alex
take it easy

yes. easy is nicer :) thanks buddy.

i stay awake because i know when i go to sleep, when i wake up i'll be angry again, and i hate being angry. People think the angry me is the real me, but it's not. I look forward to the day i die, cause it mean i'll never be aggressive to the people i care about, i'll never be angry again.

[Livia]

As there was a thread recently on great headlines... I liked the Independent's attempt this week with "How Do You Solve a Problem Like Crimea?".

[Nedusa]

I am getting sick and tired of hearing about this crisis in the Ukraine and Russian aggression. I am tired if seeing western politicians queuing up to condemn Russia for the naked aggression and for causing this crisis.

After I get over the absolute shock and disbelief of the utter hypocrisy of the US in lecturing Russia about aggression ....!!!!

Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt , Libya , Syria , Pakistan to name a few countries that the US has overtly or covertly interfered with and caused countless thousands of innocent people to lose their lives.

But Russia has invaded no one , killed no one so where is the crisis ??

The US has again fermented the situation in Kiev meddling as usual in an effort to try and overthrow a democratically ( if unpopular) president by use of fascist and neo fascist bully boys and now tries to legitimise this unelected mob.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven, everyone with half a brain knows why the US is trying to do this , they hope at some point a pro western govt in the Ukraine will deny Russia use of the Black Sea ports in the Crimea. That's it pure and simple , playing geopolitics .

But it will not work. With a large majority of ethnic Russians living in the Crimea it will always vote to allow Russia use of the Black Sea ports at Sevestapol .

It worries me that the US thinks it can mess with Russia in a country bordering Russia.

Most free thinking sensible rational normal people agree with this sequence of events yet our politicians still stick to this strange official line of Russian aggression etc..

Why .... The truth is clear to see.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/6/294248/default/v8/composite-1-626x352.jpg

Yes a Utter Mess

[Z]

The US has been messing with Russia at its borders for years, see: the Baltic States joining NATO

[MTVN]

Is there a reason the Crimeans can't hold a referendum on the future of their region? The Ukrainian government condemn it as illegal and the EU and the US follow them but why shouldn't they hold one, it's results might offer a more peaceful solution to this crisis than this current determination to dismiss and stamp out any pro-Russian sentiment in Ukraine completely

[arista]

Is there a reason the Crimeans can't hold a referendum on the future of their region? The Ukrainian government condemn it as illegal and the EU and the US follow them but why shouldn't they hold one, it's results might offer a more peaceful solution to this crisis than this current determination to dismiss and stamp out any pro-Russian sentiment in Ukraine completely



Yes
but Crimea will still do one
its just a signed document says all of Ukraine
must vote on Crimea, but no time for that.

[Nedusa]

Is there a reason the Crimeans can't hold a referendum on the future of their region? The Ukrainian government condemn it as illegal and the EU and the US follow them but why shouldn't they hold one, it's results might offer a more peaceful solution to this crisis than this current determination to dismiss and stamp out any pro-Russian sentiment in Ukraine completely

The Western powers will do everything in their power to deny Russia any long term solution to the Crimea. Even though the Crimea used to be part of Russia until Kruschev gave it to Ukraine in 1954, even though it has over 60% ethnic Russians living there, the West does not want to see Russia achieve permanent control over the territory as it gives Russia access to the Black Sea and in turn the Med. It is Russia's only warm water naval port.

This whole crisis was fermented by the West to try and put a far more pro western govt into Kiev so this Govt could hold Russia to ransom in the Crimea.

They could in theory charge Russia huge leasing fees for use of the naval bases in Sevastapol or they could threaten to rip up the lease and ask Russia to leave. This would be a significant move as Russia's Naval strength would be severely diminished in the Med ie in places like Syria where it has a naval base in Tartus.

In the event this is Russia's red line and it will do whatever it takes to keep access to the Black Sea ports for its naval fleets.

Currently it does have a lease and permission to have 25,000 troops in their bases in Crimea so technically they have broken no laws in the last week.

This is just another attempt to destabilise Russia a bit of Bear baiting if you please....

[arista]

[Ousted Ukrainian president Yanukovych is seriously ill in hospital after suffering a heart attack, claim Russian press]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2575419/Ousted-Ukrainian-president-Yanukovych-seriously-ill-hospital-suffering-heart-attack-claim-Russian-press.html#ixzz2vHXajo00

Stress Stress

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/07/article-2575419-1BEB4A4A00000578-904_634x453.jpg
[Deposed president of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych is in a Moscow hospital after suffering
a suspected heart attack, a Russian newspaper has claimed]

[Z]

Poor guy :/

[arista]

Poor guy :/

who is his doctor
a Russian?

[Livia]

I'm slightly amused at the support for Russia on this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the former USSR, East Germany, Poland etc. who will tell you that Russia's posturing is not a terribly good thing, and that life under their regime was grim at best. And those who have been so critical of our war in Afghanistan are suddenly supporting RUSSIA? And what about Chechnya, that was placed on the Genocide Watch List while the Russians occupied it? But hey... probably looks different from where other people are sitting.

[arista]

I'm slightly amused at the support for Russia on this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the former USSR, East Germany, Poland etc. who will tell you that Russia's posturing is not a terribly good thing, and that life under their regime was grim at best. And those who have been so critical of our war in Afghanistan are suddenly supporting RUSSIA? And what about Chechnya, that was placed on the Genocide Watch List while the Russians occupied it? But hey... probably looks different from where other people are sitting.


Yes but its not Stalin in charge
Putin has his Crimea back
without Deaths.

Watching the 37 days last night , tonight and saturday
on BBC2HD shows us that the start of the W.W.1 was because
a Driver took the wrong road.


Germany needs Russia for its Mega Gas Supply.



Zee is due to visit Russia under his study term.


I respect your view Livia
but for me If I am buying from China , Russia
and Japan
goods are what we worry over
not " Save Me " banners.


I am fully aware of the Russia that got alot after WW2
simply due to Americans only turning up at the end
after Japan dragged them in.


Life In The City

[Livia]

Yes but its not Stalin in charge
Putin has his Crimea back
without Deaths.

Watching the 37 days last night , tonight and saturday
on BBC2HD shows us that the start of the W.W.1 was because
a Driver took the wrong road.


Germany needs Russia for its Mega Gas Supply.



Zee is due to visit Russia under his study term.


I respect your view Livia
but for me If I am buying from China , Russia
and Japan
goods are what we worry over
not " Save Me " banners.


I am fully aware of the Russia that got alot after WW2
simply due to Americans only turning up at the end
after Japan dragged them in.


Life In The City

Stalin wasn't in charge when they trundled their tanks into Chechnya in 1994.

Anyhoo... I respect your view too, arista, event though we clearly disagree.

[arista]

Stalin wasn't in charge when they trundled their tanks into Chechnya in 1994.

Anyhoo... I respect your view too, arista, event though we clearly disagree.



Of Course
I should not skip that tragedy.

[Sticks]

Livia

I suspect because of the anti-American feelings of some, if America is against Russia, then Russia is the one to support.

[arista]

http://tv360nigeria.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/vladimir_putin_ll_111031_wg.jpg

best of mates

[arista]

Ukraine: Gunmen Seize Crimea Military Post
It was not clear if Russian forces were
involved in the attack in Sevastopol,
during which no shots were fired.

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/3/293211/default/v1/030314-online-crimea-for-phone-1-522x293.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1222197/ukraine-gunmen-seize-crimea-military-post


Life In The Fast Lane

[Nedusa]

I'm slightly amused at the support for Russia on this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the former USSR, East Germany, Poland etc. who will tell you that Russia's posturing is not a terribly good thing, and that life under their regime was grim at best. And those who have been so critical of our war in Afghanistan are suddenly supporting RUSSIA? And what about Chechnya, that was placed on the Genocide Watch List while the Russians occupied it? But hey... probably looks different from where other people are sitting.

So glad you found this amusing, so glad the sight of fascist and neo fascist Bully boys paying for snipers to kill innocent policemen and protesters amuses you.

Perhaps you would be better suited to posting on the BB and CBB forums and leave the serious debates to people who actually take these events a little more seriously and are prepared to enter into slightly more intellectual and informed debate...!!!!

I don't suffer fools lightly either but I've had to make an exception for you...!!!!

[arista]

The Voting in Crimea has started
its being watched by the World.



[Crimea Referendum Strains East-West Relations]

http://news.sky.com/story/1226660/crimea-referendum-strains-east-west-relations

[arista]

Ch4HD News said the a Early Vote Count was 92% want Crimea to be Russian


Of Course America says it wrong
but Putin is in Charge
not America

[Sticks]

irrelevant

This poll is illegal

There was no - No change option

This is Putin wanting to bring back the USSR.

[arista]

irrelevant

This poll is illegal

There was no - No change option

This is Putin wanting to bring back the USSR.


Yes of course to You and America
But not to Russian Speaking public in Crimea


Of Course its Putins Russia expanding
he is sick of Nato

[Novo]

92% :worship: now **** off America

[arista]

92% :worship: now **** off America


You tell 'em

[Sticks]

Some people here have never lived under the oppression of communism where freedom of thought and association were banned and neighbours were made to spy on each other and denounce them.

Have you forgotten the Berlin Wall?

Have you never read Animal Farm?

[arista]

Some people here have never lived under the oppression of communism where freedom of thought and association were banned and neighbours were made to spy on each other and denounce them.

Have you forgotten the Berlin Wall?

Have you never read Animal Farm?


Russia is not the same now
They Give us Gas


Yes The Berlin Wall
with young Paxman

[Novo]

How can you deny the people of Crimea the right to be a part of Russia with those figures, Putin has done the right thing by Russia and Crimea and these results show that

[arista]

How can you deny the people of Crimea the right to be a part of Russia with those figures, Putin has done the right thing by the Russia and Crimea and these results show that


Yes the Russian Speakers
are baking cakes


how nice

[Novo]

None for those nosy western Journos though, horrible bastards

[arista]

None for those nosy western Journos though, horrible bastards


they will spare one for that nice lady reporter from Ch4HD News

[Sticks]

This is an annexation. The last time we saw that was when Saddam Hussain annexed Kuwait

This phony referendum did not have the option to remain part of the Ukraine, which is why those wishing to remain in the Ukraine boycotted it.

It is easy to hire rent a mob to make your self look good, dictators do it all the time.

[joeysteele]

It would seem to have been the wrong thing to have done to have Crimea as part of Ukraine anyway when the break up happened.

It is clear that the residents of Crimea favour being still a part of Russia.
This referendum may not be seen as valid by the rest of the World in the main but it has clearly at least given the people in Crimea's view as to where they would like to be.

If that is, with such a big margin, to be part of Russia, it would be rather foolish of the West particularly to now ignore that fact.

[arista]

This is an annexation. The last time we saw that was when Saddam Hussain annexed Kuwait

This phony referendum did not have the option to remain part of the Ukraine, which is why those wishing to remain in the Ukraine boycotted it.

It is easy to hire rent a mob to make your self look good, dictators do it all the time.


No they are Not bombing like then.


Russian Speakers have Rights

[arista]

It would seem to have been the wrong thing to have done to have Crimea as part of Ukraine anyway when the break up happened.

It is clear that the residents of Crimea favour being still a part of Russia.
This referendum may not be seen as valid by the rest of the World in the main but it has clearly at least given the people in Crimea's view as to where they would like to be.

If that is, with such a big margin, to be part of Russia, it would be rather foolish of the West particularly to now ignore that fact.



Bang On Right Joey

[MTVN]

This is an annexation. The last time we saw that was when Saddam Hussain annexed Kuwait

This phony referendum did not have the option to remain part of the Ukraine, which is why those wishing to remain in the Ukraine boycotted it.

It is easy to hire rent a mob to make your self look good, dictators do it all the time.

There wasn't a 'hired rent a mob', there was an 80% turnout for the vote and there were over 100 registered international observers overseeing the vote

There was the choice to stay as part of Ukraine, though that choice was to remain based on the 1992 constitution which grants greater autonomy than they have had in recent years (though still a part of Ukraine). I'd be amazed if there was even a tiny minority of people in Crimea who want to stay in Ukraine under the current Kiev government and with very little autonomy of their own.

[Shaun]

95.5%

gosh.

[Z]

Well I say just let them go. It's very clearly what the people want.

[BBfanUSA]

I agree,

people are getting super worried about Putin and Russia right now.

I think this will end in two ways, Putin is going to at least get shot by someone with Russian ties or Russia will just put it's wanker away.

If East Ukrainians want to be a part of Russia why haven't they moved there then? Surely the government would accept them right?

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/3/17/296527/default/v1/cegrab-20140317-144832-0-1-522x293.jpg
The USA President
is on all Live Media.

He is off to Europe next week worried about what Russia will do next

For feck sake sort out you own mess in USA
Do not fly out here - You fecking fool

http://news.sky.com/story/1227136/obama-threatens-more-sanctions-on-russia

[Z]

I agree,

people are getting super worried about Putin and Russia right now.

I think this will end in two ways, Putin is going to at least get shot by someone with Russian ties or Russia will just put it's wanker away.

If East Ukrainians want to be a part of Russia why haven't they moved there then? Surely the government would accept them right?

East Ukrainians don't want to be part of Russia, they identify with being Ukrainian in the cultural sense, Ukraine is their home. They also identify strongly with Russia. Russian industry is why eastern Ukraine is prosperous. It's not too dissimilar to Scotland-within-the-UK line of thinking. It makes more sense for Russia to have its finger in other pies (i.e. other countries' politics by having a large number of Russian people living there) than to just take all those people back. It's like how China sends lots of people to its Western provinces to dilute the impact of separatist movements like Tibet and the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. There is a lot of irrational paranoia about Vladimir Putin but everything he's done thus far has been completely rational and the West can't do anything about it. The West set the precedent with Kosovo and they couldn't do anything about it when Russia stormed right up to Tbilisi in just five days in 2008. Russia simply protected its minorities in Georgian territory. There's been a strong sense of paranoia ever since in eastern Europe about "who's next" and now it's happening in the Ukraine. That's not Russia's fault. Russia has more of a leg to stand on than the West did when their combined forces entered Iraq or Afghanistan - nobody likes war or conflict but sometimes it's necessary and there's a lot of propaganda being written about Russia and the Ukraine just now because they're not on our side.

[Nedusa]

This is an annexation. The last time we saw that was when Saddam Hussain annexed Kuwait

This phony referendum did not have the option to remain part of the Ukraine, which is why those wishing to remain in the Ukraine boycotted it.

It is easy to hire rent a mob to make your self look good, dictators do it all the time.

I think the West set a precedent with the annexation of Kosovo from Serbia. On this occasion it suited the West to have Kosovo declare independence but it took 93 days of bombing Serbia to finally allow this. The majority of Kosovans are ethnic Albanian and so democratically this is an acceptable outcome.

As is the Crimea in fact even more so as over 90% are Russian and WANT to be part of Russia plus this situation has resulted from no blood being spilt.

So where is the problem ? There is no problem other than the West forcing Mr Putin to take this step due to the meddling in Ukraine to depose the unpopular elected President.

As always Mr Putin is playing chess and Mr Obama is playing marbles...!!!

[Z]

I think the West set a precedent with the annexation of Kosovo from Serbia. On this occasion it suited the West to have Kosovo declare independence but it took 93 days of bombing Serbia to finally allow this. The majority of Kosovans are ethnic Albanian and so democratically this is an acceptable outcome.

As is the Crimea in fact even more so as over 90% are Russian and WANT to be part of Russia plus this situation has resulted from no blood being spilt.

So where is the problem ? There is no problem other than the West forcing Mr Putin to take this step due to the meddling in Ukraine to depose the unpopular elected President.

As always Mr Putin is playing chess and Mr Obama is playing marbles...!!!

Yes absolutely, Kosovo was the precedent, and now the West doesn't have a leg to stand on, it was a very foolish move.

[BBfanUSA]

East Ukrainians don't want to be part of Russia, they identify with being Ukrainian in the cultural sense, Ukraine is their home. They also identify strongly with Russia. Russian industry is why eastern Ukraine is prosperous. It's not too dissimilar to Scotland-within-the-UK line of thinking. It makes more sense for Russia to have its finger in other pies (i.e. other countries' politics by having a large number of Russian people living there) than to just take all those people back. It's like how China sends lots of people to its Western provinces to dilute the impact of separatist movements like Tibet and the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. There is a lot of irrational paranoia about Vladimir Putin but everything he's done thus far has been completely rational and the West can't do anything about it. The West set the precedent with Kosovo and they couldn't do anything about it when Russia stormed right up to Tbilisi in just five days in 2008. Russia simply protected its minorities in Georgian territory. There's been a strong sense of paranoia ever since in eastern Europe about "who's next" and now it's happening in the Ukraine. That's not Russia's fault. Russia has more of a leg to stand on than the West did when their combined forces entered Iraq or Afghanistan - nobody likes war or conflict but sometimes it's necessary and there's a lot of propaganda being written about Russia and the Ukraine just now because they're not on our side.

Oh i see then sorry.

I actually forgot about that.

[arista]

I agree,

people are getting super worried about Putin and Russia right now.

I think this will end in two ways, Putin is going to at least get shot by someone with Russian ties or Russia will just put it's wanker away.

If East Ukrainians want to be a part of Russia why haven't they moved there then? Surely the government would accept them right?



No Way

The USA President could be shot next week as he arrives in Europe
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