12 shot dead at French Satirical Magazine

[Crimson Dynamo]

Witnesses spoke of sustained gunfire at the office as the attackers opened fire with Kalashnikov assault rifles.

The satirical weekly has courted controversy in the past with its depiction of news and current affairs.

Its latest tweet was a cartoon of the Islamic State militant group leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

http://www.france24.com/en/20150107-live-blog-gun-shots-french-paris-charlie-hebdo-satirical-magazine/

[Niamh.]

The world is crazy

[arista]

11 now dead at this Magazine place

[arista]

The world is crazy


No the magazine could take the piss of Arabs/Muslims
now "they" got revenge



Sign Of The Times

[Crimson Dynamo]

The world is crazy

And lets just see if the wonderful world of religion is at the bottom of this...

[Kizzy]

Ian Hislop must be quaking... :/

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/07/article-2900259-2479CEB000000578-429_964x442.jpg

[Niamh.]

No the magazine could take the piss of Arabs/Muslims
now "they" got revenge



Sign Of The Times

Yes, killing 11 people because of a cartoon is crazy imo

[andybigbro]

:umm2: this world is so bad!

Why can't people just be normal? Such a shame! :sad:

[Shaun]

I'll never understand attacks like this. Surely even the most delusionally headstrong of extremists must stop and consider the idea that no amount of mass-killings will destroy the free press.

[arista]

Yes, killing 11 people because of a cartoon is crazy imo



Yes but its been like this for Years
12 now dead.


One Police man put his hands up
so they shot him dead.


Film from mobile phones
from rooftops is now on SkyNewsHD
you can hear them Firing
with such big Machine Guns
they had no fear.

[Vanessa]

It's on the news now. Crazy! :shocked:

[arista]

I'll never understand attacks like this. Surely even the most delusionally headstrong of extremists must stop and consider the idea that no amount of mass-killings will destroy the free press.


Its like Our Lee Rigby attack
only they used Machine Guns.


They were not destroying the Free Press
just a Magazine that they viewed
as having a go at Muslims.


This was well planned
they asked for the names in that office before killing them.

[Ammi]

..has this been confirmed that this is a Muslim attack though..?..

[Ninastar]

Funny how these events seem to be increasing as of lately... I wonder why that could be.

[arista]

..has this been confirmed that this is a Muslim attack though..?..


Yes They were dressed in Black
like Isis do

[kirklancaster]

And lets just see if the wonderful world of religion is at the bottom of this...

Err .... The wonderful world of Islamic religion LT.

[arista]

Funny how these events seem to be increasing as of lately... I wonder why that could be.


Strict Muslims
will not allow you
to joke about them

[kirklancaster]

Funny how these events seem to be increasing as of lately... I wonder why that could be.

Yeah Caitlin...It can't be anything to do with what you. Livia, me and Nedusa and Eyeball Paul and others keep 'ridiculously' warning about, can it? We're just xenophobic racists.

[arista]

2 French Police dead.

[Ninastar]

Yeah Caitlin...It can't be anything to do with what you. Livia, me and Nedusa and Eyeball Paul and others keep 'ridiculously' warning about, can it? We're just xenophobic racists.

People will realise when it is too late. They are getting stronger and it's terrifying.

I honestly think the reason all this is happening again is because we pulled out of the war too early. It's not a coincidence that these attacks have picked up once we're not in the middle east anymore.

It's going to get even worse. I'm still waiting for something else to happen here in the UK.

[Vanessa]

:sad:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would imagine Ian Hislops phone is ringing off the hook but he will have to be careful in what he says

[arista]

People will realise when it is too late. They are getting stronger and it's terrifying.

I honestly think the reason all this is happening again is because we pulled out of the war too early. It's not a coincidence that these attacks have picked up once we're not in the middle east anymore.

It's going to get even worse. I'm still waiting for something else to happen here in the UK.


Yes a Shopping Mall
would be easy for these Muslims Machine Gun Terrorists
they could kill so many
before UK Armed Police snipers get them

[kirklancaster]

Strict Muslims
will not allow you
to joke about them

Strict Muslims have nothing to do with any terrorism Arista. Only psychotic murdering devils carry out these atrocities using Islam as an excuse.

[arista]

Strict Muslims have nothing to do with any terrorism Arista. Only psychotic murdering devils carry out these atrocities using Islam as an excuse.


Its viewed as as a War
Isis Vs the rest

[Crimson Dynamo]

You start a thing based on lies with a mythical superbeing who is above all humans, law etc and you will get twits like this thinking they are representing it.

[Nedusa]

Witnesses spoke of sustained gunfire at the office as the attackers opened fire with Kalashnikov assault rifles.

The satirical weekly has courted controversy in the past with its depiction of news and current affairs.

Its latest tweet was a cartoon of the Islamic State militant group leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

http://www.france24.com/en/20150107-live-blog-gun-shots-french-paris-charlie-hebdo-satirical-magazine/

This is so serious I cannot stress the ramifications of what has just happened, 12 innocent people murdered in their workplace in Paris by a military combat unit armed with rocket launchers and machine guns.

French president already calling it an act of War by Islamic terrorists.
Terror alert at highest and what for the future ...???

Perhaps a massive crackdown on immigration perhaps everyone needs to carry ID, big spotlight on Islamic centres and perhaps France will turn to the right and elect a NF type party...

Watch this space.



.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/07/article-2900259-247A2D0200000578-303_964x409.jpg
Two masked Terrorists men (pictured) brandishing Kalashnikovs
as they arrive.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/07/2479CC0700000578-2900259-image-m-20_1420630778567.jpg

[Vanessa]

Gunmen are still at large. Hope they catch them. :mad:

[arista]

Paris Policeman Shot In Head - Harrowing Video
http://news.sky.com/story/1403745/paris-policeman-shot-in-head-harrowing-video

[arista]

Gunmen are still at large. Hope they catch them. :mad:


But they do not know what they look like
Black Masks
and they were well planned

[MTVN]

Very worrying, France was already on full alert after the spate of street attacks over Christmas as well

[MTVN]

Also Private Eye isn't really that similar to this publication

[Ammi]

But they do not know what they look like
Black Masks
and they were well planned


..jeez, those poor people totally helpless...

[Scarlett.]

How the hell did they get that firepower?

[Crimson Dynamo]

This is so serious I cannot stress the ramifications of what has just happened, 12 innocent people murdered in their workplace in Paris by a military combat unit armed with rocket launchers and machine guns.

French president already calling it an act of War by Islamic terrorists.
Terror alert at highest and what for the future ...???

Perhaps a massive crackdown on immigration perhaps everyone needs to carry ID, big spotlight on Islamic centres and perhaps France will turn to the right and elect a NF type party...

Watch this space.



.

Also Private Eye isn't really that similar to this publication

But its the closest we have so parallels will be drawn

[kirklancaster]

But they do not know what they look like
Black Masks
and they were well planned

Black masks and weapons against unarmed civilians - all the pre-requisites of murdering cowardly scum.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Maybe France should shut down every mosque for a month just to make all muslims in France think about what people do in the name of their religion and what they could be doing to help stop it?

[Ninastar]

How the hell did they get that firepower?

probably the darknet...

[letmein]

Strict Muslims have nothing to do with any terrorism Arista. Only psychotic murdering devils carry out these atrocities using Islam as an excuse.

:idc:

[kirklancaster]

Maybe France should shut down every mosque for a month just to make all muslims in France think about what people do in the name of their religion and what they could be doing to help stop it?

Great idea LT. It may just elicit information from non-participating Muslims who may just know certain details about these terrorists.

On second thoughts it might just provoke so much more violent atrocities than it's worth.

[arista]

All Local Schools have closed
and France is on the Highest Alert.


Due to the Holidays
that Office of the Magazine had less protection.
So they knew it was Ideal to Attack

[Nedusa]

It's the Crusades all over again, except this time they are the Crusaders and we in the west are their prey.




.

[Nedusa]

They will never stop , they will use all methods to Islamify the West and then eventually the World. They will use soft power like exploiting our own shameful abdication of our own Christian faith, our preponderance to bend over backwards to accommodate other faiths/cultures at the expense of our own.

They will use hard power, terrorism.... They will shoot,bomb and behead their way through all of us men,women and children that refuse to revert back to the one true Islamic faith.

They will pick us off one by one and the saddest thing of all is that the more monstrous their terrorist act the more the west will try and plead with them to stop and give them more civil powers and profess brotherhood and kinship.

Utter madness.... I just hope people now will wake up and start to take this threat seriously.

Appeasement never works it just lets the terrorist become more powerful.





.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/07/article-2900259-247A8AF800000578-609_964x559.jpg
the wounded Policeman is shot more to his death

[arista]

Today the Terrorists are winning

[kirklancaster]

They will never stop , they will use all methods to Islamify the West and then eventually the World. They will use soft power like exploiting our own shameful abdication of our own Christian faith, our preponderance to bend over backwards to accommodate other faiths/cultures at the expense of our own.

They will use hard power, terrorism.... They will shoot,bomb and behead their way through all of us men,women and children that refuse to revert back to the one true Islamic faith.

They will pick us off one by one and the saddest thing of all is that the more monstrous their terrorist act the more the west will try and plead with them to stop and give them more civil powers and profess brotherhood and kinship.

Utter madness.... I just hope people now will wake up and start to take this threat seriously.

Appeasement never works it just lets the terrorist become more powerful.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

I think that we have both written at length so many times stressing the above sentiments Nedusa, but I still feel it is largely a message falling upon deaf ears.

[kirklancaster]

Today the Terrorists are winning

Because we are empowering them to do so by our impotency, our weakness, and our totally insane P.C. driven archaic sense of 'fair play' and decency.

We need leaders with testicles, who will sanction our troops, our security services, our police, to do whatever is necessary to eradicate these mental, murdering demons. We need leaders who will put our interests first, our freedoms first, and our safety first, and if the actions necessary to achieve this is seen by some to be racist, xenophobic or against 'civil liberties' then feck them, let them think what they want.

[Cherie]

Terror levels mean nothing, these people would be happy to walk into a care home and shoot people, no point bringing down an airliner that has been done already, they will do anything to shock, terrorise and try and ultimately overpower

[Nedusa]

Because we are empowering them to do so by our impotency, our weakness, and our totally insane P.C. driven archaic sense of 'fair play' and decency.

We need leaders with testicles, who will sanction our troops, our security services, our police, to do whatever is necessary to eradicate these mental, murdering demons. We need leaders who will put our interests first, our freedoms first, and our safety first, and if the actions necessary to achieve this is seen by some to be racist, xenophobic or against 'civil liberties' then feck them, let them think what they want.



:clap2::clap2::clap2:

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/1/7/1420641965770/A-woman-stands-in-solidar-011.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/1/7/1420633705956/Twitter-image-showing-a-p-011.jpg

[Northern Monkey]

If anyone needs torturing,These fucckers do.They need to be captured,Tortured and imprisoned with some neo-Nazi skin heads for life.Or if caught in the act,Shot on sight.No protection,No Halal meals in prison and a clear message sent that the same will happen to any terrorist who commits any act of terrorism on western soil.Non of this "lets talk" nonsense.We can't just lay there while they f'ck us up the a'rse dry.We need to fight back until these c'nts realise that they can't win.

[the truth]

And lets just see if the wonderful world of religion is at the bottom of this...

its NOT all religions, its just islam , radical perverted twisted version of it.
you dont see jews christians or any other religions performing this mass terrorism across the world

[Crimson Dynamo]

its NOT all religions, its just islam , radical perverted twisted version of it.
you dont see jews christians or any other religions performing this mass terrorism across the world

Not in this century no...

[kirklancaster]

Not in this century no...

:joker: Come on LT - before you start blaming this **** weather on the rain dances done by 15th century Mojave Indians. :hehe:

There is only one religion at the heart of this terrorism and you know it.

[kirklancaster]

If anyone needs torturing,These fucckers do.They need to be captured,Tortured and imprisoned with some neo-Nazi skin heads for life.Or if caught in the act,Shot on sight.No protection,No Halal meals in prison and a clear message sent that the same will happen to any terrorist who commits any act of terrorism on western soil.Non of this "lets talk" nonsense.We can't just lay there while they f'ck us up the a'rse dry.We need to fight back until these c'nts realise that they can't win.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[the truth]

Not in this century no...

this problem is 100% an islamic problem an we must stop shooting ourselves in the foot and blaming other religions. the time has come to END political correctness in its entirety and bring back freedom of speech. I would also criminalise those who falsely accuse people of racism. it is these snide pc people who attempt to bring down others with their false accusations of bigotry who are doing enormous damage and making the pathway clearer for radicals to take over the country and europe. a line must now be drawn in the sand. dont forget we have an estimated 1 million illegal immigrants in the UK. yet it seems its illegal to even mention their illegality. we are a basket case of a country and we need to stand up for who we are what we are, what we believe in, our values, our laws, our civil liberties. This is a war within and we are not even allowed to speak.

[Crimson Dynamo]

They were shouting "snackbar" as they shot them

[Crimson Dynamo]

this problem is 100% an islamic problem an we must stop shooting ourselves in the foot and blaming other religions. the time has come to END political correctness in its entirety and bring back freedom of speech. I would also criminalise those who falsely accuse people of racism. it is these snide pc people who attempt to bring down others with their false accusations of bigotry who are doing enormous damage and making the pathway clearer for radicals to take over the country and europe. a line must now be drawn in the sand. dont forget we have an estimated 1 million illegal immigrants in the UK. yet it seems its illegal to even mention their illegality. we are a basket case of a country and we need to stand up for who we are what we are, what we believe in, our values, our laws, our civil liberties. This is a war within and we are not even allowed to speak.

Personally I would shut all mosques until this thing stops

[arista]

The only person not calling it Islamic
is the Lame Duck USA President


Its a Fact that those 3,
that got away with it,
are Islamic Terrorists

[the truth]

:joker: Come on LT - before you start blaming this **** weather on the rain dances done by 15th century Mojave Indians. :hehe:

There is only one religion at the heart of this terrorism and you know it.

100% true. lets see if the PC liberals at the BBC ever grow a backsone strong enough to state this incontrovertable truth.
have we seen jews doing this ? no. Christians? no. This is wholly a problem within the islamic community. we have laid back and allowed it to happen. though blairs heavy handed wars made everything worse. he simply didnt get his facts straight before the iraq invasion and its been a disaster ever since. however going further back, oil is at the heart of the original wars. though at this point thats irrelevant to the horrors of these attacks. There is nothing on earth or in the heavens that can justify this barbarity. its a simple choice, do we stand up for free speech or do we allow a bunch of bullying murderous barbarians to kill us until we are all too scared to say or do anything?

[the truth]

Personally I would shut all mosques until this thing stops

Yes thats a fine idea. Wed need the army to patrol the streets mind. sadly its gone so far now as weve sleepwalked into this nightmare that their rights now supercede ours.

[Northern Monkey]

The Christians did this a thousand years ago.The problem is that (radical)Islam has'nt moved on.They are a thousand years behind other religions.As Nedusa said,They believe it is their turn to wage a crusade on the west.(radical) Islam is primitive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Seventy-eight percent support punishment for the people who earlier this year published cartoons featuring the Prophet Mohammed. Sixty-eight percent support the arrest and prosecution of those British people who "insult Islam." When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62 percent of British Muslims say No, it should not.



Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d8d_1420648510#B7YlsgrMvLqIXd4k.99

[JoshBB]

****ing idiots. What amazes me is how people manage to get through borders with weapons.. you would think it would be checked. How awful.

[Northern Monkey]

Seventy-eight percent support punishment for the people who earlier this year published cartoons featuring the Prophet Mohammed. Sixty-eight percent support the arrest and prosecution of those British people who "insult Islam." When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62 percent of British Muslims say No, it should not.



Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d8d_1420648510#B7YlsgrMvLqIXd4k.99
Well,Maybe those Muslims should move to one of those lovely Islamic countries where free speech is forbiden and they won't get offended.

[JoshBB]

Personally I would shut all mosques until this thing stops

How on earth would that help?? Most muslims are completely rational and many have adapted to western society, shutting down their mosques would completely disregard their religious rights.

[Crimson Dynamo]

How on earth would that help?? Most muslims are completely rational and many have adapted to western society, shutting down their mosques would completely disregard their religious rights.

It would give them time to reflect how their religion has spawned so much hate and violence in the world and maybe make them realise that there is no god

[arista]

How on earth would that help?? Most muslims are completely rational and many have adapted to western society, shutting down their mosques would completely disregard their religious rights.



Yes its just the few that are Evil
Jihads

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes its just the few that are Evil
Jihads

http://rt.com/news/183048-isis-grow-expand-jihadist/


ISIS has 100,000 fighters, growing fast

35,000 Taliban

http://web.stanford.edu/group/mappingmilitants/cgi-bin/groups/view/367

[bots]

Because we are empowering them to do so by our impotency, our weakness, and our totally insane P.C. driven archaic sense of 'fair play' and decency.

We need leaders with testicles, who will sanction our troops, our security services, our police, to do whatever is necessary to eradicate these mental, murdering demons. We need leaders who will put our interests first, our freedoms first, and our safety first, and if the actions necessary to achieve this is seen by some to be racist, xenophobic or against 'civil liberties' then feck them, let them think what they want.

There is no short fix to this. To fight them on an equal footing, we would need to waive away our rights to freedom and free speech and become as bad as them. It is for these reasons that I agree with the west's response to their atrocities. This is going to take several generations to resolve so we need to get used to it I'm sorry to say.

[Nedusa]

We have created a terrible mess now with our meddling in Middle East countries, by sticking our noses in trying to bring democracy we have achieved only in creating more hatred against us and added to that we have sold/supplied/given unlimited number of arms to various terrorist groups who now turn these weapons back on us.

Using fear and terror tactics these groups now have recruited every disgruntled religious numpty to carry on the fight in the West.

Yet no one from the Muslim community gives a sh it , they put out standard communiques barely condemning these atrocities, sometimes even trying to justify these murderous acts.

Yet the west still makes excuses for these communities saying they stand shoulder to shoulder with them in the fight.

But these Muslim communities do nothing in real terms to try and de-radicalise Islam through education and teaching in Mosques, usually quite the reverse happens.

Non Muslim countries need to demand much more cooperation from Muslim communities who live in secular Christian democracies, full cultural integration and real efforts to root out Islamic extremism. Not just lip service after the latest atrocity.






.

[bots]

We have created a terrible mess now with our meddling in Middle East countries, by sticking our noses in trying to bring democracy we have achieved only in creating more hatred against us and added to that we have sold/supplied/given unlimited number of arms to various terrorist groups who now turn these weapons back on us.

Using fear and terror tactics these groups now have recruited every disgruntled religious numpty to carry on the fight in the West.

Yet no one from the Muslim community gives a sh it , they put out standard communiques barely condemning these atrocities, sometimes even trying to justify these murderous acts.

Yet the west still makes excuses for these communities saying they stand shoulder to shoulder with them in the fight.

But these Muslim communities do nothing in real terms to try and de-radicalise Islam through education and teaching in Mosques, usually quite the reverse happens.

Non Muslim countries need to demand much more cooperation from Muslim communities who live in secular Christian democracies, full cultural integration and real efforts to root out Islamic extremism. Not just lip service after the latest atrocity.
.

Completely agree, but what you outline is no short term strategy, we need to accept that this is going to be a long drawn out process to resolve.

[Sticks]

Many Muslims hold their sacred holy prophet in high regard, it is also part of Islam to serve in holy Jihad

These so called cartoonists by insulting him sowed a whirlwind, which was reaped today, in short they brought it on themselves. Something like this happened once in Denmark, they should have learned from that. This is what can happen when you disrespect people's sacred beliefs.

Time for the media to show respect and restraint, as for the old chestnut about Freedom of speech, it has limits, to quote "Freedom of speech does not allow one to falsely yell fire in a crowded theatre"

[Livia]

Drawing a cartoon that allegedly insults a religion does not warrant 12 people shot dead. If they do not want to live in a country that offers them the freedom to speak freely they should **** off to Saudi.

The magazine in question regularly rips the piss out of Judaism. Do I care? No. And I'm sure Christians aren't going to be opening up with Kalashnikovs any time soon. We should not be appeasing terrorists.

[kirklancaster]

this problem is 100% an islamic problem an we must stop shooting ourselves in the foot and blaming other religions. the time has come to END political correctness in its entirety and bring back freedom of speech. I would also criminalise those who falsely accuse people of racism. it is these snide pc people who attempt to bring down others with their false accusations of bigotry who are doing enormous damage and making the pathway clearer for radicals to take over the country and europe. a line must now be drawn in the sand. dont forget we have an estimated 1 million illegal immigrants in the UK. yet it seems its illegal to even mention their illegality. we are a basket case of a country and we need to stand up for who we are what we are, what we believe in, our values, our laws, our civil liberties. This is a war within and we are not even allowed to speak.

:clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Z]

I am ****ing sick of Islamic extremism. You know what we should do? Continue to make fun of them. Turn them into the big ****ing joke that they are and stop taking them seriously - because that's how you defuse a situation like this, take the threat out of it. It'll get worse, but then it'll fizzle out if enough people find them to be a laughing stock instead of letting the fear and chaos of terrorism take over our hearts and minds.

[Ninastar]

Drawing a cartoon that allegedly insults a religion does not warrant 12 people shot dead. If they do not want to live in a country that offers them the freedom to speak freely they should **** off to Saudi.

The magazine in question regularly rips the piss out of Judaism. Do I care? No. And I'm sure Christians aren't going to be opening up with Kalashnikovs any time soon. We should not be appeasing terrorists.

Exactly... Do you know how often I hear people making fun of Americans? I mean it's the cool new thing to do so I hear/see something stupid pretty much every day. But do I sit at home making a bazooka to try and get my revenge? No, I laugh along with it. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it isn't. But in countries where we have the right to freedom of speech, should we really have to watch what we say? No... We should be able to say what we want. No matter how stupid.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Many Muslims hold their sacred holy prophet in high regard, it is also part of Islam to serve in holy Jihad

These so called cartoonists by insulting him sowed a whirlwind, which was reaped today, in short they brought it on themselves. Something like this happened once in Denmark, they should have learned from that. This is what can happen when you disrespect people's sacred beliefs.

Time for the media to show respect and restraint, as for the old chestnut about Freedom of speech, it has limits, to quote "Freedom of speech does not allow one to falsely yell fire in a crowded theatre"

So they hold some fictitious bloke in high regard and we should watch out or they will shoot us if we dont?

unbelievable

What about the universal sacred belief not to kill people who dont agree with you?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am ****ing sick of Islamic extremism. You know what we should do? Continue to make fun of them. Turn them into the big ****ing joke that they are and stop taking them seriously - because that's how you defuse a situation like this, take the threat out of it. It'll get worse, but then it'll fizzle out if enough people find them to be a laughing stock instead of letting the fear and chaos of terrorism take over our hearts and minds.

Every newspaper should publish that cartoon tomorrow

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Damn terrorist having a field day today.

In addition terrorists bombed a key NAACP office today with intent to kill. I am glad media is covering one of these stories.


RIP.

[arista]

Said Kouachi, 34,
his brother Cherif Kouachi, 33, and
Hamyd Mourad, 19,
from the Paris commuter town of Gennevilliers
Are the 3 Terrorists Wanted

Now Named by French Police


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/07/247A769F00000578-2900259-image-a-62_1420637332528.jpg
the seconds just before they went back to make sure the wounded Police man
was Dead

[Scarlett.]

Many Muslims hold their sacred holy prophet in high regard, it is also part of Islam to serve in holy Jihad

These so called cartoonists by insulting him sowed a whirlwind, which was reaped today, in short they brought it on themselves. Something like this happened once in Denmark, they should have learned from that. This is what can happen when you disrespect people's sacred beliefs.

Time for the media to show respect and restraint, as for the old chestnut about Freedom of speech, it has limits, to quote "Freedom of speech does not allow one to falsely yell fire in a crowded theatre"

You know what, if these extremists want to stop people from taking the piss out of their religeon, perhaps they should stop slaughtering people. Just saying.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/1/7/361509/default/v1/tele-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/1/7/361516/default/v1/mirror-blur-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/1/7/361515/default/v1/daily-mail-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/1/7/361508/default/v1/ft1-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/1/7/361512/default/v1/guardian-1-720x960.jpg

[the truth]

to compare with the Christians we see in our british society...when Jesus was represented as an incontinent pig and Joseph was depicted as a sick paedophile in jerry springer the musical on the bbc, 50,000 complaints were received, but the bbc wasnt burned to the ground no one was shot dead or even punched...these 50,000 Christians sent polite letters to the head of department and that was it.......of course similar black comedies mocking Islam were pulled off for fear of reprisals. this sums up the lack of any backbone the total liberal cowardice at the heart of the bbc and british society itself.

[the truth]

How on earth would that help?? Most muslims are completely rational and many have adapted to western society, shutting down their mosques would completely disregard their religious rights.

who cares when these mosques have been used to reach hatred and even worse to recuit soldiers and even terrorists for years

[kirklancaster]

There is no short fix to this. To fight them on an equal footing, we would need to waive away our rights to freedom and free speech and become as bad as them. It is for these reasons that I agree with the west's response to their atrocities. This is going to take several generations to resolve so we need to get used to it I'm sorry to say.

I don't see how we would need to waive any of our rights to freedom and free speech Bitonthe side? We are already waiving away those rights daily by allowing these bastards to intimidate us and stop Nativity plays in our Christian schools, stop the wearing of crucifixes around the necks of our nurses, and a host of other 'forced' changes to our Western democratic way of life, and we are already allowing them to intimidate us and curb our rights to free speech because we dare not speak any truths if it is a truth about Muslims, immigrants or foreigners in general.

It is time to stop ALL immigration but especially of Muslims - be they Black, Brown, Asian or Eastern Europeans, and feck the EU - what are they going to do, slap us?

Time is NOT on our side and we have NOT got several generations. By that time we will all definitely be under Sharia law or dead.

Lebanon was a Westernised Christian democracy, and it became Islamified in less than half a generation.

When germs enter our bodies through our skin, the body's defence mechanicism kicks into action; the wound is sealed off to stop further infestation, and the little white soldiers which are our antibodies swoop on the invaders and kick the feck out of them to protect our bodies.

We should learn from nature - seal off our borders and stop letting the bastards in, thereby making it easier for our Security Services to deal with the millions already here.

We should also learn from current affairs because the atrocities in Holland, Australia and Paris weren't committed by an invading army, but by fecking IMMIGRANTS which those countries had welcomed and embraced and and allowed to live there. FFS even Jihadi John hails from the UK.

It's time now for the UK people to take to the streets, shout from the rooftops and go on strike if need be to FORCE our weak leaders to CLOSE our borders and stand up to the bastards who are already here. It's time to Stop appeasing them and start INVESTIGATING them. Sniff out the 5th columnists and sympathisers and BOOT the ***** out. Feck Brussels.

[kirklancaster]

who cares when these mosques have been used to reach hatred and even worse to recuit soldiers and even terrorists for years

Turn them into fecking Bingo halls and save a few Christian places of worship from that fate.

[T*]

Drawing a cartoon that allegedly insults a religion does not warrant 12 people shot dead. If they do not want to live in a country that offers them the freedom to speak freely they should **** off to Saudi.

The magazine in question regularly rips the piss out of Judaism. Do I care? No. And I'm sure Christians aren't going to be opening up with Kalashnikovs any time soon. We should not be appeasing terrorists.

:clap1:
RIP to the people who lost their lives over something so stupid, my thoughts are with their families.

[kirklancaster]

to compare with the Christians we see in our british society...when Jesus was represented as an incontinent pig and Joseph was depicted as a sick paedophile in jerry springer the musical on the bbc, 50,000 complaints were received, but the bbc wasnt burned to the ground no one was shot dead or even punched...these 50,000 Christians sent polite letters to the head of department and that was it.......of course similar black comedies mocking Islam were pulled off for fear of reprisals. this sums up the lack of any backbone the total liberal cowardice at the heart of the bbc and british society itself.

One Muslim owned petrol station in South Yorkshire operated a Car Wash with the name emblazoned on signs all over its facade. Know what they called it? 'CHRIST' Car Wash'. Not a whimper of protest from anyone - No one dare. Except me, and what a Ding Dong that was, but then, I'm not Politically Correct.

Imagine a white English Christian garage having a 'ALLAH' Car Wash?

:shrug::shrug::shrug:

[kirklancaster]

Many Muslims hold their sacred holy prophet in high regard, it is also part of Islam to serve in holy Jihad

These so called cartoonists by insulting him sowed a whirlwind, which was reaped today, in short they brought it on themselves. Something like this happened once in Denmark, they should have learned from that. This is what can happen when you disrespect people's sacred beliefs.

Time for the media to show respect and restraint, as for the old chestnut about Freedom of speech, it has limits, to quote "Freedom of speech does not allow one to falsely yell fire in a crowded theatre"

Are you for real? 12 innocent people brought violent death upon themselves, and immense heartbreak upon their grieving partners, children and parents, because they published a cartoon?

"People's sacred beliefs"? Their is NOTHING more sacred than HUMAN LIFE.

"Respect and restraint"? LISTEN to yourself. What RESPECT and RESTRAINT have these murdering cowards ever shown ANYONE who does not yield to their threats, does not conform to their ideology?

I am disgusted to hear these words issue from a Brit while 12 innocent people lay butchered in Paris.

[Marsh.]

Imagine a white English Christian garage having a 'ALLAH' Car Wash?

:shrug::shrug::shrug:

:joker:

[Brother Leon]

One Muslim owned petrol station in South Yorkshire operated a Car Wash with the name emblazoned on signs all over its facade. Know what they called it? 'CHRIST' Car Wash'. Not a whimper of protest from anyone - No one dare. Except me, and what a Ding Dong that was, but then, I'm not Politically Correct.

Imagine a white English Christian garage having a 'ALLAH' Car Wash?

:shrug::shrug::shrug:

Wtf. You realise Jesus is a loved figure in Islam right? Your point is mute.

[MTVN]

I don't see how we would need to waive any of our rights to freedom and free speech Bitonthe side? We are already waiving away those rights daily by allowing these bastards to intimidate us and stop Nativity plays in our Christian schools, stop the wearing of crucifixes around the necks of our nurses, and a host of other 'forced' changes to our Western democratic way of life, and we are already allowing them to intimidate us and curb our rights to free speech because we dare not speak any truths if it is a truth about Muslims, immigrants or foreigners in general.

It is time to stop ALL immigration but especially of Muslims - be they Black, Brown, Asian or Eastern Europeans, and feck the EU - what are they going to do, slap us?

Time is NOT on our side and we have NOT got several generations. By that time we will all definitely be under Sharia law or dead.

Lebanon was a Westernised Christian democracy, and it became Islamified in less than half a generation.

When germs enter our bodies through our skin, the body's defence mechanicism kicks into action; the wound is sealed off to stop further infestation, and the little white soldiers which are our antibodies swoop on the invaders and kick the feck out of them to protect our bodies.

We should learn from nature - seal off our borders and stop letting the bastards in, thereby making it easier for our Security Services to deal with the millions already here.

We should also learn from current affairs because the atrocities in Holland, Australia and Paris weren't committed by an invading army, but by fecking IMMIGRANTS which those countries had welcomed and embraced and and allowed to live there. FFS even Jihadi John hails from the UK.

It's time now for the UK people to take to the streets, shout from the rooftops and go on strike if need be to FORCE our weak leaders to CLOSE our borders and stand up to the bastards who are already here. It's time to Stop appeasing them and start INVESTIGATING them. Sniff out the 5th columnists and sympathisers and BOOT the ***** out. Feck Brussels.

Sorry but this post makes me very uncomfortable. I am a white Briton of Christian descent but I see neither Islam nor immigrants as my enemy. And I'll pass on your street marches thanks.

[Dollface]

Are you for real? 12 innocent people brought violent death upon themselves, and immense heartbreak upon their grieving partners, children and parents, because they published a cartoon?

"People's sacred beliefs"? Their is NOTHING more sacred than HUMAN LIFE.

"Respect and restraint"? LISTEN to yourself. What RESPECT and RESTRAINT have these murdering cowards ever shown ANYONE who does not yield to their threats, does not conform to their ideology?

I am disgusted to hear these words issue from a Brit while 12 innocent people lay butchered in Paris.

:clap1:

Sticks it looks like you're trying to make excuses for the vile terrorists.. There is NO excuse for what they did.
I once saw a man in the street wearing a T-shirt saying "Jesus is a *******" but despite being somewhat offended i didn't murder the bloke.
Bought it on themselves.. what a joke.

[GypsyGoth]

I think it's a shame that more people will hate normal islamic people because of this.

[kirklancaster]

Sorry but this post makes me very uncomfortable. I am a white Briton of Christian descent but I see neither Islam nor immigrants as my enemy. And I'll pass on your street marches thanks.

Of course MTVN - that's your prerogative. We don't agree on this subject anyway. Better to leave street protests and violence to Muslim extremists eh?

[smudgie]

Are you for real? 12 innocent people brought violent death upon themselves, and immense heartbreak upon their grieving partners, children and parents, because they published a cartoon?

"People's sacred beliefs"? Their is NOTHING more sacred than HUMAN LIFE.

"Respect and restraint"? LISTEN to yourself. What RESPECT and RESTRAINT have these murdering cowards ever shown ANYONE who does not yield to their threats, does not conform to their ideology?

I am disgusted to hear these words issue from a Brit while 12 innocent people lay butchered in Paris.

:worship:

Bang on right.

[kirklancaster]

Wtf. You realise Jesus is a loved figure in Islam right? Your point is mute.

Not as loved a figure as Muhammed, and I didn't see them name the car wash after him, but why name a car wash after any religious figure?

[the truth]

Sorry but this post makes me very uncomfortable. I am a white Briton of Christian descent but I see neither Islam nor immigrants as my enemy. And I'll pass on your street marches thanks.

not as uncomfortable as being assassinated for drawing cartoons?

[the truth]

diffeence is Jesus preached love forgiveness redemption etc the islamic code is infinitely harder line. but we brits in our mindless idiocracy, have sacrificed Christ and handed over the keys to all his churches to these hardliners who dont believe in forgiveness or redemption. we are insane

[Ninastar]

I think it's a shame that more people will hate normal islamic people because of this.

It is a shame... but instead of playing the victim, what a lot of Islamic people need to do is agree that these people give them a bad name. They need to agree that we have to do something about it. But making trends and posting things on the internet like 'not all muslims are bad!!!!!!1111' doesn't help. Anyone with a brain knows that all muslims arent bad. They need to pay respects to the victims and not complain and turn it into a sob story.

(I'm on about internet warriors... not the standard Muslim person. Every Muslim person I know IRL has mentioned how awful this is)

[billy123]

I don't see how we would need to waive any of our rights to freedom and free speech Bitonthe side? We are already waiving away those rights daily by allowing these bastards to intimidate us and stop Nativity plays in our Christian schools, stop the wearing of crucifixes around the necks of our nurses, and a host of other 'forced' changes to our Western democratic way of life, and we are already allowing them to intimidate us and curb our rights to free speech because we dare not speak any truths if it is a truth about Muslims, immigrants or foreigners in general.

It is time to stop ALL immigration but especially of Muslims - be they Black, Brown, Asian or Eastern Europeans, and feck the EU - what are they going to do, slap us?

Time is NOT on our side and we have NOT got several generations. By that time we will all definitely be under Sharia law or dead.

Lebanon was a Westernised Christian democracy, and it became Islamified in less than half a generation.

When germs enter our bodies through our skin, the body's defence mechanicism kicks into action; the wound is sealed off to stop further infestation, and the little white soldiers which are our antibodies swoop on the invaders and kick the feck out of them to protect our bodies.

We should learn from nature - seal off our borders and stop letting the bastards in, thereby making it easier for our Security Services to deal with the millions already here.

We should also learn from current affairs because the atrocities in Holland, Australia and Paris weren't committed by an invading army, but by fecking IMMIGRANTS which those countries had welcomed and embraced and and allowed to live there. FFS even Jihadi John hails from the UK.

It's time now for the UK people to take to the streets, shout from the rooftops and go on strike if need be to FORCE our weak leaders to CLOSE our borders and stand up to the bastards who are already here. It's time to Stop appeasing them and start INVESTIGATING them. Sniff out the 5th columnists and sympathisers and BOOT the ***** out. Feck Brussels.Possibly the most small minded and bigoted crap post i have ever read on here and that takes some doing. I have many friends of all religions and origins and some of them shock and horror are also people that have immigrated here and have just as much right to be here as you do.
Twice in my life i have had had to be evacuated due to bombs placed by Christian extremist groups and once been within earshot of a huge bomb detonated by Christians should i hate them? should i tar them all with the same brush?
No because that would be idiotic.
Get a sense of perspective ffs and stop reading too much right wing propaganda it's rotting your brain.
The amount of religious intolerance you display is so hypocritical coming from someone that claims to be a Christian and yet takes a piss fit whenever anyone sniggers at people that believe in a god.
Your post is offensive and discriminatory to almost a quarter of the people on the planet and is uneducated reactionary bollocks based on the actions of 3 lunatics.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6ywiKSIYAElp8F.jpg

[Shaun]

Strict Muslims have nothing to do with any terrorism Arista. Only psychotic murdering devils carry out these atrocities using Islam as an excuse.

I don't see how we would need to waive any of our rights to freedom and free speech Bitonthe side? We are already waiving away those rights daily by allowing these bastards to intimidate us and stop Nativity plays in our Christian schools, stop the wearing of crucifixes around the necks of our nurses, and a host of other 'forced' changes to our Western democratic way of life, and we are already allowing them to intimidate us and curb our rights to free speech because we dare not speak any truths if it is a truth about Muslims, immigrants or foreigners in general.

It is time to stop ALL immigration but especially of Muslims - be they Black, Brown, Asian or Eastern Europeans, and feck the EU - what are they going to do, slap us?

Time is NOT on our side and we have NOT got several generations. By that time we will all definitely be under Sharia law or dead.

Lebanon was a Westernised Christian democracy, and it became Islamified in less than half a generation.

When germs enter our bodies through our skin, the body's defence mechanicism kicks into action; the wound is sealed off to stop further infestation, and the little white soldiers which are our antibodies swoop on the invaders and kick the feck out of them to protect our bodies.

We should learn from nature - seal off our borders and stop letting the bastards in, thereby making it easier for our Security Services to deal with the millions already here.

We should also learn from current affairs because the atrocities in Holland, Australia and Paris weren't committed by an invading army, but by fecking IMMIGRANTS which those countries had welcomed and embraced and and allowed to live there. FFS even Jihadi John hails from the UK.

It's time now for the UK people to take to the streets, shout from the rooftops and go on strike if need be to FORCE our weak leaders to CLOSE our borders and stand up to the bastards who are already here. It's time to Stop appeasing them and start INVESTIGATING them. Sniff out the 5th columnists and sympathisers and BOOT the ***** out. Feck Brussels.

Well that's quite the escalation between posts :umm2:

[Dollface]

It is a shame... but instead of playing the victim, what a lot of Islamic people need to do is agree that these people give them a bad name. They need to agree that we have to do something about it. But making trends and posting things on the internet like 'not all muslims are bad!!!!!!1111' doesn't help. Anyone with a brain knows that all muslims arent bad. They need to pay respects to the victims and not complain and turn it into a sob story.

(I'm on about internet warriors... not the standard Muslim person. Every Muslim person I know IRL has mentioned how awful this is)

I totally agree

I ended up having an argument with my friend about this. As soon as i mentioned what happened in France, she started saying "but you shouldn't label them islamic extremists!!! islam is about peace so they arent exactly following islam!!!" like hello why can't people just acknowledge that these terrorists are awful, instead of spending their time defending islam when no-one even insulted islam in the first place ffs.

[Ninastar]

I totally agree

I ended up having an argument with my friend about this. As soon as i mentioned what happened in France, she started saying "but you shouldn't label them islamic extremists!!! islam is about peace so they arent exactly following islam!!!" like hello why can't people just acknowledge that these terrorists are awful, instead of spending their time defending islam when no-one even insulted islam in the first place ffs.

Glad you agree.

One of the reasons that they are getting so much stronger is because you can't even call them what they are.

[billy123]

Glad you agree.

One of the reasons that they are getting so much stronger is because you can't even call them what they are.You are free to call them what they are who said you cant :shrug: they are lunatics they are evil pieces of ****. they are the scum of the earth.
These type of deluded scum aren't typical of any race or religion these evil bastards are found in equal measures everywhere in the world.
They are sick individuals.

[the truth]

You are free to call them what they are who said you cant :shrug: they are lunatics they are evil pieces of ****. they are the scum of the earth.
These type of deluded scum aren't typical of any race or religion these evil bastards are found in equal measures everywhere in the world.
They are sick individuals.
why didnt you mention muslim?

[billy123]

why didnt you mention muslim?For the same reason i didnt mention their shoe size or didnt mention they have fingers and toes.
Should i have done?
Ok i will. Im ****ing sick of these wankers with arms and legs murdering people shut the borders and stop letting them in hurrr durrr.

I bet they were users of the evil that is water as well grrrr. :worry:

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/the-deadly-facts-about-water.jpg

[bots]

I don't see how we would need to waive any of our rights to freedom and free speech Bitonthe side? We are already waiving away those rights daily by allowing these bastards to intimidate us and stop Nativity plays in our Christian schools, stop the wearing of crucifixes around the necks of our nurses, and a host of other 'forced' changes to our Western democratic way of life, and we are already allowing them to intimidate us and curb our rights to free speech because we dare not speak any truths if it is a truth about Muslims, immigrants or foreigners in general.

It is time to stop ALL immigration but especially of Muslims - be they Black, Brown, Asian or Eastern Europeans, and feck the EU - what are they going to do, slap us?

Time is NOT on our side and we have NOT got several generations. By that time we will all definitely be under Sharia law or dead.

Lebanon was a Westernised Christian democracy, and it became Islamified in less than half a generation.

When germs enter our bodies through our skin, the body's defence mechanicism kicks into action; the wound is sealed off to stop further infestation, and the little white soldiers which are our antibodies swoop on the invaders and kick the feck out of them to protect our bodies.

We should learn from nature - seal off our borders and stop letting the bastards in, thereby making it easier for our Security Services to deal with the millions already here.

We should also learn from current affairs because the atrocities in Holland, Australia and Paris weren't committed by an invading army, but by fecking IMMIGRANTS which those countries had welcomed and embraced and and allowed to live there. FFS even Jihadi John hails from the UK.

It's time now for the UK people to take to the streets, shout from the rooftops and go on strike if need be to FORCE our weak leaders to CLOSE our borders and stand up to the bastards who are already here. It's time to Stop appeasing them and start INVESTIGATING them. Sniff out the 5th columnists and sympathisers and BOOT the ***** out. Feck Brussels.

With respect Kirk, your response is exactly what these terrorists want. They want to disrupt western life, feed hatred, make us react violently and harshly toward them because that ultimately feeds their cause and recruits them further support. This will take generations to resolve, because you cannot remove hatred in a generation, and by reacting to their actions negatively all we are doing is further feeding hatred on all sides. In this respect, the turn the other cheek philosophy is actually the best response because we can then maintain the society that we in the west have worked so hard to create.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

It is a shame... but instead of playing the victim, what a lot of Islamic people need to do is agree that these people give them a bad name. They need to agree that we have to do something about it. But making trends and posting things on the internet like 'not all muslims are bad!!!!!!1111' doesn't help. Anyone with a brain knows that all muslims arent bad. They need to pay respects to the victims and not complain and turn it into a sob story.

(I'm on about internet warriors... not the standard Muslim person. Every Muslim person I know IRL has mentioned how awful this is)

There actually are those type of organizations that muslims themselves started but it doesn't get much media coverage so people don't know about it.

[Ammi]

..18yr old terror suspect surrenders to the police...




The youngest of three suspects in the Paris terror attack on a French satirical magazine has surrendered to police.

Reports suggest Hamyd Mourad, 18, handed himself in to officers.

Meanwhile images have been released of brothers Said Kouachi and Cherif Kouachi, both in their 30s, who are suspected of being part of the attack that left 12 people dead.

Officials have said the suspects are linked to a Yemeni terror network.

On Wednesday night heavily armoured French police raided an apartment in the city of Reims, east of Paris, as they continued a massive manhunt to find the killers.

Thousands of officers have reportedly been deployed in the hunt for the men behind the attack on the offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

It has previously been targeted over its portrayal of the Prophet Mohammed.

In Wednesday's attack, three masked gunmen stormed the offices and called out their victims by name before opening fire during a morning editorial meeting.

They were armed with Kalashnikov rifles and a rocket-propelled grenade.

They were let inside the Charlie Hebdo building by a female employee who was threatened at gunpoint along with her daughter and forced to punch in a security code to allow them inside.

The editor and a cartoonist for the newspaper, who went by the pen names Charb and Cabu, were among those killed.

Radio France chief executive Mathieu Gilet announced revealed that contributor Bernard Maris was also killed.

Two police officers were among the dead, including one assigned as Charb's bodyguard after he had received death threats and another who was shot in the head as he lay wounded on the ground outside the offices.

French President Francois Hollande has declared today a national day of mourning.

In a televised address on Wednesday he said: "We have to respond according to the crime, first of all by finding the authors of this infamy and we have to ensure that they are arrested, judged... and punished very severely.

Tens of thousands of people have staged silent protests in France and across the world in solidarity for the victims of the attack.

Social media users have used the hashtag #jesuischarlie to show solidarity for the victims of the shooting, with the Charlie Hebdo website also using the image as its masthead.



...18yrs old, barely more than a child...this is nothing to do with any religion at all, it's conditioning/brainwashing and perpetrating hate because hate has to try to give itself a cause..it has to try and justify it's murderous actions..there is no religion on this earth that trains assassins from children and closing borders etc will never stop hate from spreading it's seed, hate is not an immigration issue..nor will trying to fight it with more hate stop it either because all it does is multiply it, which is exactly what it wants/it's what it thrives on...

[Crimson Dynamo]

7 arrests overnight

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901459/jesuisCharlie-world-s-cartoonists-react-Paris-massacre-poignant-drawings.html

these are amazing

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/1/7/1420667738638/Steve-Bell-08.01.15-014.jpg

UK's Steve Bell

[Cherie]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901459/jesuisCharlie-world-s-cartoonists-react-Paris-massacre-poignant-drawings.html

these are amazing

Yes they are.

[Cherie]

With respect Kirk, your response is exactly what these terrorists want. They want to disrupt western life, feed hatred, make us react violently and harshly toward them because that ultimately feeds their cause and recruits them further support. This will take generations to resolve, because you cannot remove hatred in a generation, and by reacting to their actions negatively all we are doing is further feeding hatred on all sides. In this respect, the turn the other cheek philosophy is actually the best response because we can then maintain the society that we in the west have worked so hard to create.

:clap2:

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/1/8/361535/default/v1/composite-image-paris-suspects-1-144x81.jpg

The 2 Brothers still on the run


http://news.sky.com/story/1403975/paris-terror-attack-two-brothers-on-the-run

[Cherie]

Question for Kirk, during the troubles, were you advocating the closure of free movement between the UK and Ireland, just curious.

[Ammi]

..it's not known yet whether there is any connection but two policemen injured in a second Paris shooting...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11332148/Police-officers-targeted-in-second-Paris-gun-attack.html

[Nedusa]

With respect Kirk, your response is exactly what these terrorists want. They want to disrupt western life, feed hatred, make us react violently and harshly toward them because that ultimately feeds their cause and recruits them further support. This will take generations to resolve, because you cannot remove hatred in a generation, and by reacting to their actions negatively all we are doing is further feeding hatred on all sides. In this respect, the turn the other cheek philosophy is actually the best response because we can then maintain the society that we in the west have worked so hard to create.

So perhaps we should do nothing, keep quiet, preserve the status quo ?

Let's carry on and pretend everything in the garden is rosy, ignore atrocity after atrocity after all it's not my workplace that has had its employees murdered in cold blood for drawing cartoons, it's not me or anyone in my family who has had their head almost decapitated on a London street.

No let's turn a blind eye to that and just sit back like sheep and let over 20 centuries of British Culture and Christianity be slowly flushed down the toilet.

Judging by some of the posts on here people are still hanging on to the deluded idea that in a generation or two we will all be friends all living in harmony.

Sorry , if you actually took time out and looked at what is happening in Europe you will see that a process of islamification is under way and that changes are happening , have been happening to change our way of life forever.

Yesterday's outrage is but one more in a long line of atrocities , it's creeping closer folks and all the brotherhood and kingship and love won't stop it.

And years from now when you are forced to get up at 4am for the call to prayer in your black tent garments with you face covered, years from now when Arabic is the UK 's official language and sharia law is in force, you will cast a wistful eye back and wonder how it all came to this and how nobody saw it happening.

[Cherie]

So perhaps we should do nothing, keep quiet, preserve the status quo ?

Let's carry on and pretend everything in the garden is rosy, ignore atrocity after atrocity after all it's not my workplace that has had its employees murdered in cold blood for drawing cartoons, it's not me or anyone in my family who has had their head almost decapitated on a London street.

No let's turn a blind eye to that and just sit back like sheep and let over 20 centuries of British Culture and Christianity be slowly flushed down the toilet.

Judging by some of the posts on here people are still hanging on to the deluded idea that in a generation or two we will all be friends all living in harmony.

Sorry , if you actually took time out and looked at what is happening in Europe you will see that a process of islamification is under way and that changes are happening , have been happening to change our way of life forever.

Yesterday's outrage is but one more in a long line of atrocities , it's creeping closer folks and all the brotherhood and kingship and love won't stop it.

And years from now when you are forced to get up at 4am for the call to prayer in your black tent garments with you face covered, years from now when Arabic is the UK 's official language and sharia law is in force, you will cast a wistful eye back and wonder how it all came to this and how nobody saw it happening.

I don't think anyone is advocating "doing nothing" Nedusa, but turning on your Muslim neighbour just because they happen to be Muslim is not the answer here, I do agree with you that we need to perserve our own customs and traditions and beliefs, however the deterioration in this is more to do with people turning away from Christianity, I doubt any of those people will be converting to Islam anytime soon.

[bots]

So perhaps we should do nothing, keep quiet, preserve the status quo ?

Let's carry on and pretend everything in the garden is rosy, ignore atrocity after atrocity after all it's not my workplace that has had its employees murdered in cold blood for drawing cartoons, it's not me or anyone in my family who has had their head almost decapitated on a London street.

No let's turn a blind eye to that and just sit back like sheep and let over 20 centuries of British Culture and Christianity be slowly flushed down the toilet.

Judging by some of the posts on here people are still hanging on to the deluded idea that in a generation or two we will all be friends all living in harmony.

Sorry , if you actually took time out and looked at what is happening in Europe you will see that a process of islamification is under way and that changes are happening , have been happening to change our way of life forever.

Yesterday's outrage is but one more in a long line of atrocities , it's creeping closer folks and all the brotherhood and kingship and love won't stop it.

And years from now when you are forced to get up at 4am for the call to prayer in your black tent garments with you face covered, years from now when Arabic is the UK 's official language and sharia law is in force, you will cast a wistful eye back and wonder how it all came to this and how nobody saw it happening.


I am not suggesting that we do nothing though, I am suggesting that we take appropriate action that still maintains our ideals and values. This, in my opinion, is the approach that is now being taken, and which will ultimately be successful. Will there be many further atrocities - probably, its not nice, its obscene, but its a fact that reverting to their tactics will just escalate conflicts and not lead to resolution.

[Nedusa]

I don't think anyone is advocating "doing nothing" Nedusa, but turning on your Muslim neighbour just because they happen to be Muslim is not the answer here, I do agree with you that we need to perserve our own customs and traditions and beliefs, however the deterioration in this is more to do with people turning away from Christianity, I doubt any of those people will be converting to Islam anytime soon.

I am not saying we should turn on our Muslim neighbours or bring back internment camps, but ALL Muslim immigrants must try and integrate into British society observe our laws,culture and traditions.

We are a Christian Country regardless of how many people go to church so all our Christian holidays should be allowed to be celebrated fully without any dumbing down to other faiths.

Our press freedoms and freedom of speech are part of our democracy and as such we have the right to poke fun or satirise ALL religious icons including Mohammed.

We have a right to smoke and drink alcohol and we have a right to wear the shortest skirts we can fit into. It is NOT against our laws.

We have a right to let our hair be shown , freely uncovered.

We ( women) have a right to an education, to have a career , drive a car go out at night unchaperoned.

And we have a right NOT to be stoned to death because someone thinks we don't have these rights.

This is just a snapshot of some of the things we have fought for over the decades with millions dying in World Wars to preserve these rights.

I for one will resist to my dying breath any attempt to take away these rights.

It does not take a genius to see that we as a Country have started to play down and dilute our holiest days like Christmas or Easter . Why are we doing this ?

Now our freedom of speech is under attack...... No British Newspaper has the balls today to publish the cartoons that caused the atrocity yesterday. No they are fearful so you could argue the terrorists are winning.

So back to our Muslim neighbours yes live here in peace, integrate and respect our laws, culture, religion etc....

If they are not happy to do that then they should crawl back under the sand dune they came from.




.

[arista]

..it's not known yet whether there is any connection but two policemen injured in a second Paris shooting...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11332148/Police-officers-targeted-in-second-Paris-gun-attack.html


No not connected
confirmed now

[MTVN]

So one of the police officers who was shot yesterday was himself a Muslim reportedly. Part of the solution to combating extremism is to not make out that the vast majority of Muslims in the West are anything other than our allies in this conflict. We should stop treating them as different to us, demanding that 'they' do more which by implication links them to their attackers. Yes they share the same faith but that faith is bitterly divided, there is a battle going on within the Muslim world at the moment. I admit this isn't a great analogy but it's sort of akin to have demanded that Catholic communities and leaders do more about, and take responsibility for, the actions of Protestant Ulster loyalists.

People moan about Muslims not doing enough or not integrating, well this Islamic officer who died was out every day risking his safety to protect Paris' streets and has paid with his life for that; is that not enough? Or is not enough that thousands of Muslims are in our police and our armed forces. To take it global its worth remembering that its Muslims who are the biggest death statistic from extremism, and its other Muslims who are taking the biggest risk right now on the front line against ISIS. The minute you start to treat them all the same you lose sight of what Islamic extremism really is and how to combat it. It's not a battle that the West can fight alone.

And like ITILYT said there are organisations that Muslims have set up themselves in the West to combat extremism that get very little coverage. Just as the numerous (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-07/islamic-leaders-condemn-paris-attack-some-warn-against-backlash.html) condemnations (http://www.onislam.net/english/shariah/special-coverage/481653-paris-attack-charlie-hebdo-terrorist-cartoon.html) that flooded in immediately from across the Muslim world receive very little coverage.

[Cherie]

I am not saying we should turn on our Muslim neighbours or bring back internment camps, but ALL Muslim immigrants must try and integrate into British society observe our laws,culture and traditions.

We are a Christian Country regardless of how many people go to church so all our Christian holidays should be allowed to be celebrated fully without any dumbing down to other faiths.

Our press freedoms and freedom of speech are part of our democracy and as such we have the right to poke fun or satirise ALL religious icons including Mohammed.

We have a right to smoke and drink alcohol and we have a right to wear the shortest skirts we can fit into. It is NOT against our laws.

We have a right to let our hair be shown , freely uncovered.

We ( women) have a right to an education, to have a career , drive a car go out at night unchaperoned.

And we have a right NOT to be stoned to death because someone thinks we don't have these rights.

This is just a snapshot of some of the things we have fought for over the decades with millions dying in World Wars to preserve these rights.

I for one will resist to my dying breath any attempt to take away these rights.

It does not take a genius to see that we as a Country have started to play down and dilute our holiest days like Christmas or Easter . Why are we doing this ?

Now our freedom of speech is under attack...... No British Newspaper has the balls today to publish the cartoons that caused the atrocity yesterday. No they are fearful so you could argue the terrorists are winning.

So back to our Muslim neighbours yes live here in peace, integrate and respect our laws, culture, religion etc....

If they are not happy to do that then they should crawl back under the sand dune they came from.




.

Completely agree with this, tbf though I don't know any that don't celebrate Christmas, same for Sikhs, Jews etc, I think the dumbing down of Christmas and Easter is more to do with following America, Spring Break and Happy Holidays are American traditions, as are Halloween and now God help us we have decided to import Black Friday.

[Ammi]

So one of the police officers who was shot yesterday was himself a Muslim reportedly. Part of the solution to combating extremism is to not make out that the vast majority of Muslims in the West are anything other than our allies in this conflict. We should stop treating them as different to us, demanding that 'they' do more which by implication links them to their attackers. Yes they share the same faith but that faith is bitterly divided, there is a battle going on within the Muslim world at the moment. I admit this isn't a great analogy but it's sort of akin to have demanded that Catholic communities and leaders do more about, and take responsibility for, the actions of Protestant Ulster loyalists.

People moan about Muslims not doing enough or not integrating, well this Islamic officer who died was out every day risking his safety to protect Paris' streets and has paid with his life for that; is that not enough? Or is not enough that thousands of Muslims are in our police and our armed forces. To take it global its worth remembering that its Muslims who are the biggest death statistic from extremism, and its other Muslims who are taking the biggest risk right now on the front line against ISIS. The minute you start to treat them all the same you lose sight of what Islamic extremism really is and how to combat it. It's not a battle that the West can fight alone.

And like ITILYT said there are organisations that Muslims have set up themselves in the West to combat extremism that get very little coverage. Just as the numerous (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-07/islamic-leaders-condemn-paris-attack-some-warn-against-backlash.html) condemnations (http://www.onislam.net/english/shariah/special-coverage/481653-paris-attack-charlie-hebdo-terrorist-cartoon.html) that flooded in immediately from across the Muslim world receive very little coverage.

..great post Matt..and I think that everyone wants this to stop but it's how to do that though..do we attack back and kill innocents in the same vein they have done, how is that going to stop anything or indeed not only make it escalate even more and just create more innocent deaths...

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think it's a shame that more people will hate normal islamic people because of this.

Islam is not really a normal anything


What is the ruling on the apostate?

If a Muslim apostatizes and meets the conditions of apostasy – i.e., he is of sound mind, an adult and does that of his own free will – then his blood may be shed with impunity. He is to be executed by the Muslim ruler or by his deputy – such as the qaadi or judge, and he is not to not be washed (after death, in preparation for burial), the funeral prayer is not to be offered for him and he is not to be buried with the Muslims.

http://islamqa.info/en/20327


pQzuFrMRA3M

[Crimson Dynamo]

UTdKxCz2FIQ


You can skip to 4.30 for Hitchen's excellent and relevant point

[Northern Monkey]

I don't see how we would need to waive any of our rights to freedom and free speech Bitonthe side? We are already waiving away those rights daily by allowing these bastards to intimidate us and stop Nativity plays in our Christian schools, stop the wearing of crucifixes around the necks of our nurses, and a host of other 'forced' changes to our Western democratic way of life, and we are already allowing them to intimidate us and curb our rights to free speech because we dare not speak any truths if it is a truth about Muslims, immigrants or foreigners in general.

It is time to stop ALL immigration but especially of Muslims - be they Black, Brown, Asian or Eastern Europeans, and feck the EU - what are they going to do, slap us?

Time is NOT on our side and we have NOT got several generations. By that time we will all definitely be under Sharia law or dead.

Lebanon was a Westernised Christian democracy, and it became Islamified in less than half a generation.

When germs enter our bodies through our skin, the body's defence mechanicism kicks into action; the wound is sealed off to stop further infestation, and the little white soldiers which are our antibodies swoop on the invaders and kick the feck out of them to protect our bodies.

We should learn from nature - seal off our borders and stop letting the bastards in, thereby making it easier for our Security Services to deal with the millions already here.

We should also learn from current affairs because the atrocities in Holland, Australia and Paris weren't committed by an invading army, but by fecking IMMIGRANTS which those countries had welcomed and embraced and and allowed to live there. FFS even Jihadi John hails from the UK.

It's time now for the UK people to take to the streets, shout from the rooftops and go on strike if need be to FORCE our weak leaders to CLOSE our borders and stand up to the bastards who are already here. It's time to Stop appeasing them and start INVESTIGATING them. Sniff out the 5th columnists and sympathisers and BOOT the ***** out. Feck Brussels.Our lilly livered politicians are not ready for that.But in the end it will come to that,More than likely when it is too late and there is all out war on the streets.People will eventually wake up to the slow,step by step Islamification of our society but by then things will be dire.In years to come when the native population of our tiny Island becomes a minority and we are fighting for our freedom and being attacked,bombed and shot regularly.People will look back at the last two decades and say 'Wtf were they thinking'.I think France will eventually take the lead on taking a hard line approach to combatting terrorism and uncontrolled immigration and we and other European nations will follow in their footsteps.At the moment nobody has the balls to take the first stance but i feel France is on its way.

[lostalex]

The world needs to crack down on Islam and Muslims the same way the USA cracked down on the KKK and racists in the 1960s.

[kirklancaster]

Possibly the most small minded and bigoted crap post i have ever read on here and that takes some doing. I have many friends of all religions and origins and some of them shock and horror are also people that have immigrated here and have just as much right to be here as you do.
Twice in my life i have had had to be evacuated due to bombs placed by Christian extremist groups and once been within earshot of a huge bomb detonated by Christians should i hate them? should i tar them all with the same brush?
No because that would be idiotic.
Get a sense of perspective ffs and stop reading too much right wing propaganda it's rotting your brain.
The amount of religious intolerance you display is so hypocritical coming from someone that claims to be a Christian and yet takes a piss fit whenever anyone sniggers at people that believe in a god.
Your post is offensive and discriminatory to almost a quarter of the people on the planet and is uneducated reactionary bollocks based on the actions of 3 lunatics.


I find your post bigoted and highly offensive, and it's a pity that this latest in a long line of atrocities did not move you so readily to condemn it on here with the same anger and passion that my post has invoked in you.

I notice also your reluctance to ascribe any terrorist murderers as Islamist or Muslim, as in; "3 lunatics".

Before you start criticising what I contend and before you start making personal attacks on me - get your facts straight.

Where have I had a "a piss fit whenever anyone sniggers at people that believe in a god."?

Are you referring to the times when I have responded to certain people who have posted to merely ridicule those of us having an earnest discussion on religion? What do you propose I should do - stay quiet, be apathetic, lethargic? Oh wait a minute, maybe I'm confused because that's what you propose we should all do on immigration and terrorism issues. isn't it?

Where in any of my posts prior to this thread have I displayed "religious intolerance"?

I think you are so blinded by 'immigrant/Muslim defensive rage' that I had the temerity to state what I did, that you are confusing me with the Islamic Fundamentalist murdering mongols who take "religious intolerance" to its extreme and who have it preached to them throughout the text in their holy book.

I have posted many comprehensive articles on here stating that ordinary Muslims are not to blame for these atrocities and that a lot of them openly condemn the terrorists behind them, and I still do stand by that.

So perhaps I should have made that point clearer in the post you object to, but that post was part knee-jerk reaction to yet another sickening atrocity carried out by these evil bastards, and part hurried due to certain factors, so I will better explain what I meant to put in my post.

The irrefutable facts are that these atrocities are not being perpetrated by armed invaders arriving here openly on gunboats from Syria, Afghanistan or the Yemen, but by immigrants who have been welcomed in with open arms .
by the very host countries in which they carry out their barbaric slaughter.

And therein lies the problem; how to effectively vet the floods of immigrants into this and other Western Democratic countries to detect such terrorists and prevent them from entering.

As they do not wear labels saying 'I'm a A 5th Columnist Terrorist Get Me In There' it's an impossible task, but because this problem with immigrant terrorist atrocities is becoming more frequent and their acts more audacious, something clearly has to be done.

The answer is unfortunate but necessary; stop all immigration by Muslims - even if only temporarily - to allow our Security Services to function effectively. Give them the not inconsiderable hundreds of millions saved by stopping further immigration to enable them to rigorously investigate suspected terrorists and their sympathisers among those Muslim immigrants already here. And our Security Services are not clueless, they have their lists, but are restricted by 'red tape', lack of funds and time. So buy our Security Services the precious time to carry out such investigations without them having to concern themselves with how many more potential terrorists may be entering the UK daily among the new influx of immigrants. Strip away the 'red tape', let them do their job.

Ordinary peace-loving Muslims will not be offended by such an action, they will welcome it, and the one's who raise their voices in protest screaming 'racism' and 'xenophobia' will expose themselves as not being 'ordinary peace-loving Muslims' because no sane, decent person will ever protest against necessary measures taken to end this senseless slaughter of innocent lives.

I for one prefer to be accused of 'over-reacting' than not reacting at all. I prefer being accused of 'going too far' than having inertia and not moving at all, and unlike you and others like you, I don't sit back and lambaste those who at least propose some type of action to counter terrorism, nor criticise such proposals without proffering alternatives.

So just what do you propose that we should do about this terrorist problem?

Do you accept that such terrorists spring from the immigrant communities of the host countries where they are committing their bloodbaths? If so, just what do you advocate as the best way of solving the problem of identifying such 5th columnists from among the immigrant masses?

What do you contend is the best way of protecting Western Democracies from further infiltration by covert terrorists and their sympathisers which isn't offensive to Muslims, Immigrants, and their supporters?

Please post and enlighten me.

Oh, and I an genuinely sorry to hear of your problems and suffering at the hands of Christian extremists but would seriously be interested in knowing which conflict that was.

[kirklancaster]

Well that's quite the escalation between posts :umm2:

Sorry, Shaun but I wasn't being inconsistent, just clouded by genuine outrage, and I posted a knee-jerk reaction which was rather too hastily written. I still don't blame ordinary Muslims, but for a more detailed and calmer explanation see my response to Bobnot.

[arista]

UTdKxCz2FIQ


You can skip to 4.30 for Hitchen's excellent and relevant point


Yes he was a Great man

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes he was a Great man

If he were alive now he would be making some great points but also saying well i did tell you so.

[kirklancaster]

Question for Kirk, during the troubles, were you advocating the closure of free movement between the UK and Ireland, just curious.

No Cherie, but that was a totally different issue to this and I did condemn the slaughter by all parties, and the part played by the British Government at the time.

No Irishman ever proclaimed a mission to conquer any other Western Democratic country and install Roman Catholicsm or Protestantism on the peoples they'd subjugated, and nowhere in the Holy Book that both Irish Irish Protestant and Catholics held sacred did it instruct them to do so.

I was as sickened and angered by Bloody Sunday as I was by any atrocity perpetrated by the sectarians.

[Livia]

A little shocked - but I guess not wholly surprised - to see so much pre-emptive sympathy and empathy going to the "majority of Muslims" while twelve families come to terms with the death of a loved one and try to fit the pieces of their lives back together. The "majority of Muslims" don't stand up to be counted. They worry that they will be targeted with racial abuse in the backlash and then THAT becomes the focus of people's attention, instead of the terrorist atrocity that's just taken place. Maybe people don't truly get what's happening until it affects them directly. Many Muslims do stand up and disassociate terrorists with their religion. Many won't because a proportion of them agree with what's happening. If they didn't there'd be more dobbing in of extremists using mosques.

[Niamh.]

No Cherie, but that was a totally different issue to this and I did condemn the slaughter by all parties, and the part played by the British Government at the time.

No Irishman ever proclaimed a mission to conquer any other Western Democratic country and install Roman Catholicsm or Protestantism on the peoples they'd subjugated, and nowhere in the Holy Book that both Irish Irish Protestant and Catholics held sacred did it instruct them to do so.

I was as sickened and angered by Bloody Sunday as I was by any atrocity perpetrated by the sectarians.

mmm the whole troubles in the North stuff was less to do with religion and more to do with Ireland being split in two and people either wanting to be British or Irish anyway. It just so happened that "the Irish side" were mainly Catholic and "the British side" mainly Protestant.

[kirklancaster]

A little shocked - but I guess not wholly surprised - to see so much pre-emptive sympathy and empathy going to the "majority of Muslims" while twelve families come to terms with the death of a loved one and try to fit the pieces of their lives back together. The "majority of Muslims" don't stand up to be counted. They worry that they will be targeted with racial abuse in the backlash and then THAT becomes the focus of people's attention, instead of the terrorist atrocity that's just taken place. Maybe people don't truly get what's happening until it affects them directly. Many Muslims do stand up and disassociate terrorists with their religion. Many won't because a proportion of them agree with what's happening. If they didn't there'd be more dobbing in of extremists using mosques.

:flowers: Thank you.

[kirklancaster]

mmm the whole troubles in the North stuff was less to do with religion and more to do with Ireland being split in two and people either wanting to be British or Irish anyway. It just so happened that "the Irish side" were mainly Catholic and "the British side" mainly Protestant.

Thanks Niamh - I wasn't being 'detail' specific, but you're right of course.

[MTVN]

A little shocked - but I guess not wholly surprised - to see so much pre-emptive sympathy and empathy going to the "majority of Muslims" while twelve families come to terms with the death of a loved one and try to fit the pieces of their lives back together. The "majority of Muslims" don't stand up to be counted. They worry that they will be targeted with racial abuse in the backlash and then THAT becomes the focus of people's attention, instead of the terrorist atrocity that's just taken place. Maybe people don't truly get what's happening until it affects them directly. Many Muslims do stand up and disassociate terrorists with their religion. Many won't because a proportion of them agree with what's happening. If they didn't there'd be more dobbing in of extremists using mosques.

In that case it is equally inappropriate to use this tragedy to call for the banning of Muslims into the UK, to state that Mosques should be shut down, and talking up street action against immigrants while twelve families are coming to terms with the death of their loved ones

I strongly reject the notion that distinguishing extremists from ordinary Muslims takes anything away from the sympathy felt for yesterday and today's victims

[Crimson Dynamo]

In that case it is equally inappropriate to use this tragedy to call for the banning of Muslims into the UK, to state that Mosques should be shut down, and talking up street action against immigrants while twelve families are coming to terms with the death of their loved ones

I strongly reject the notion that distinguishing extremists from ordinary Muslims takes anything away from the sympathy felt for yesterday and today's victims

if you have a club that states that execution is the right and proper punishment for getting out of the club then its not too much of a surprise that this kind of thing happens

The problem lies with the club and its rules and the fictitious nature of its values.

[Livia]

In that case it is equally inappropriate to use this tragedy to call for the banning of Muslims into the UK, to state that Mosques should be shut down, and talking up street action against immigrants while twelve families are coming to terms with the death of their loved ones

I strongly reject the notion that distinguishing extremists from ordinary Muslims takes anything away from the sympathy felt for yesterday and today's victims

I never said I supported banning Muslims entering the UK, the closure of mosques (unless they support extremists, and let's face it, some do) or any other unlawful action. However, when the first reaction of so many people is "oh the poor ordinary Muslims" it's a skewed, in my opinion.

The vast majority of people already know that most Muslims are ordinary, hard-working, law-abiding members of the community and only the very stupidest in our society would target them based simply on their religion. And keeping the focus on ordinary Muslims and worrying about how the stupidest people in society will react IS taking away from the terrorist attrocity by pre-empting the victimisation of innocent Muslims where clearly that isn't happening. I haven't seen twelve Muslims shot dead in Paris. I haven't seen a Muslim hacked to death on the streets of Britain, nor have I seen a mass coming together of Muslims to denounce the action of their brothers and sisters.

[Brother Leon]

It is a shame... but instead of playing the victim, what a lot of Islamic people need to do is agree that these people give them a bad name. They need to agree that we have to do something about it. But making trends and posting things on the internet like 'not all muslims are bad!!!!!!1111' doesn't help. Anyone with a brain knows that all muslims arent bad. They need to pay respects to the victims and not complain and turn it into a sob story.

(I'm on about internet warriors... not the standard Muslim person. Every Muslim person I know IRL has mentioned how awful this is)

Pretty much anywhere you look, you will find Muslims condemning them. It is also Muslim Men and Women mostly who are battling ISIS face to face and on foot every single day. I think it's Abit rich for us in England to say "Oh, you should condemn them and do more instead of making it a sob story" when they are the ones fighting the spread of isis and we are just posting RIP messages.

--

In an unrelated note, it is annoying how the main victims of Islamist extremism does happen to be Muslims themselves, but it's only a huge issue that needs every Muslim to have to come out and say it is wrong when it occurs in a western nation and it is made out like it is only a problem for the people of Europe/USA.

[Livia]

Pretty much anywhere you look, you will find Muslims condemning them. It is also Muslim Men and Women mostly who are battling ISIS face to face and on foot every single day. I think it's Abit rich for us in England to say "Oh, you should condemn them and do more instead of making it a sob story" when they are the ones fighting the spread of isis and we are just posting RIP messages.

--

In an unrelated note, it is annoying how the main victims of Islamist extremism does happen to be Muslims themselves, but it's only a huge issue that needs every Muslim to have to come out and say it is wrong when it occurs in a western nation and it is made out like it is only a problem for the people of Europe/USA.

You're right, BL. Many victims of ISIL are Muslim. And many are not. And many Western Muslims condemn atrocities and support the people suffering. And many Western non-Muslims do the same. It's unfair to suggest that people only make a noise about this stuff when it happens in Europe or the US. People of all colours and creeds have been sickened by ISIL's actions in the Middle East and have not been backward in voicing that.

And now the fight is being brought to the streets of European capitals and really, no one is safe. But there is still a general reluctance for Muslims to come forward and condemn what the terrorists do, let alone pass on intelligence that could be helpful to the security services.

[kirklancaster]

In that case it is equally inappropriate to use this tragedy to call for the banning of Muslims into the UK, to state that Mosques should be shut down, and talking up street action against immigrants while twelve families are coming to terms with the death of their loved ones

I strongly reject the notion that distinguishing extremists from ordinary Muslims takes anything away from the sympathy felt for yesterday and today's victims

I have already stated in a response to Bobnot that my post which you commented on, was part knee-jerk reaction and part rushed, and that perhaps I was clouded by outrage and disgust by the atrocities in France and did not perhaps make clear what I meant to say.

What I find astonishing though MTVN, is the numbers of people on here who repeatedly fail to post in condemnation of Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists every time they slaughter yet more innocent people, but who will yet post the most angry condemnations of people like myself who do post to condemn the atrocities if they deem us to have been xenophobic or racist, anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant.

Why is that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Who is the Muslim spokesperson for the UK?

[Livia]

Who is the Muslim spokesperson for the UK?


Dr Shuja Shafi is Secretary General of the Muslim Council. The Muslim Council cannot be faulted - they are always the first organisation to stand up to be counted. It must frustrate them they don't get more support (and more coverage)

[Nedusa]

I have already stated in a response to Bobnot that my post which you commented on, was part knee-jerk reaction and part rushed, and that perhaps I was clouded by outrage and disgust by the atrocities in France and did not perhaps make clear what I meant to say.

What I find astonishing though MTVN, is the numbers of people on here who repeatedly fail to post in condemnation of Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists every time they slaughter yet more innocent people, but who will yet post the most angry condemnations of people like myself who do post to condemn the atrocities if they deem us to have been xenophobic or racist, anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant.

Why is that?


I have posted a few times in this thread stating my revulsion to the current terrorist attack , and I like others have become a touch heated in my thoughts and ideas for tackling the growing problem.

But atrocity after atrocity nothing seems ever to change in the stance held by the Muslim communities in this Country and other Western European countries. This is not just our problem it is theirs too, they must speak up more and use the mosques to de-radicalise the young Muslims that buy into extreme Islamist views.

They must seek to educate young Muslim children against the teachings of hate,jihad and extremism.

The non Muslim majority cannot do all of this on their own whilst the muslim communities just sit back and offer standard condemnations. They must do more or eventually they will be accused of complicity and real divisions will start to show.

As one poster said earlier , worst case scenario is that we end up fighting on the streets with right wing EDL groups firebombing Mosques.

This is not a million miles away, if this type of attack were to start happening against Christians or Jews/ Hindus then I fear for all of us.

If Islam is such a peaceful loving religion then why are the Muslim Communities not marching in the streets against these barbaric attacks ?




.

[Beso]

Kick them all out.

Seriously, kick them all out.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/08/2483BC1C00000578-2901570-image-a-47_1420732733762.jpg
Its OK Honey
they will keep you safe

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/08/2483C1D700000578-2901570-image-a-48_1420732749237.jpg
Yes Fella they are are out there now Even FoxNewsHD

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/08/2483F62100000578-0-image-a-76_1420737354369.jpg
Its Dark Now
so many old Farm buildings to be checked.



Those 2 Terrorists
with there Guns could shoot down the Helicopter

[kirklancaster]

I have posted a few times in this thread stating my revulsion to the current terrorist attack , and I like others have become a touch heated in my thoughts and ideas for tackling the growing problem.

But atrocity after atrocity nothing seems ever to change in the stance held by the Muslim communities in this Country and other Western European countries. This is not just our problem it is theirs too, they must speak up more and use the mosques to de-radicalise the young Muslims that buy into extreme Islamist views.

They must seek to educate young Muslim children against the teachings of hate,jihad and extremism.

The non Muslim majority cannot do all of this on their own whilst the muslim communities just sit back and offer standard condemnations. They must do more or eventually they will be accused of complicity and real divisions will start to show.

As one poster said earlier , worst case scenario is that we end up fighting on the streets with right wing EDL groups firebombing Mosques.

This is not a million miles away, if this type of attack were to start happening against Christians or Jews/ Hindus then I fear for all of us.

If Islam is such a peaceful loving religion then why are the Muslim Communities not marching in the streets against these barbaric attacks ?

.

I cannot fault you at all Nedusa. I am genuinely afraid that it is already too late. I'm beginning to feel like we who speak out about this are being viewed as the 'terrorists'. Just heard about the retaliatory grenades thrown at the Mosque in Le Mans, and fear it's already starting.

Depressed really. Either I'm crazy or there are a lot of blind, deaf and dumb, people in a state of denial. :shrug::shrug::shrug:

[Sticks]

Are you for real? 12 innocent people brought violent death upon themselves, and immense heartbreak upon their grieving partners, children and parents, because they published a cartoon?

"People's sacred beliefs"? Their is NOTHING more sacred than HUMAN LIFE.

"Respect and restraint"? LISTEN to yourself. What RESPECT and RESTRAINT have these murdering cowards ever shown ANYONE who does not yield to their threats, does not conform to their ideology?

I am disgusted to hear these words issue from a Brit while 12 innocent people lay butchered in Paris.

First of all I said they brought it on themselves NOT They had it coming, which some apparently have said. Those two are not the same!

Suppose you go up to a wasp's nest and hit it with a big stick. If you get stung, you will have brought it on yourself, not that you had it coming.

Going back as far as the 1980's and the Satanic Verses, it is well known that by offending Islam, violent reprisals will be metered out. It happened in Denmark over cartoons of their holy prophet, where British Newspapers showed respect and restraint by refusing to publish them.

This magazine was fire bombed in 2011, so they should have learned from that, not to insult Islam, they persisted in their unfettered "Freedom of speech" clichés and this was the result. It was predictable this would happen so what what were they thinking?

That magazine should not have published those cartoons. By doing so they provoked this action.

For those going on about "Freedom of Speech", sometimes they forget, even in the UK, it has limits.

On this very forum, text speak is not permitted by forum rules, you could argue that is an unacceptable curtailment of freedom of speech, but in practice, we all accept and abide by that rule.

In the wider environment, we have laws against incitement to hatred, based on race, gender, religion and orientation. Those claiming the trump card of freedom of speech are quick to condemn anyone who is not politically correct. It cuts both way!

[Crimson Dynamo]

First of all I said they brought it on themselves NOT They had it coming, which some apparently have said. Those two are not the same!

Suppose you go up to a wasp's nest and hit it with a big stick. If you get stung, you will have brought it on yourself, not that you had it coming.

Going back as far as the 1980's and the Satanic Verses, it is well known that by offending Islam, violent reprisals will be metered out. It happened in Denmark over cartoons of their holy prophet, where British Newspapers showed respect and restraint by refusing to publish them.

This magazine was fire bombed in 2011, so they should have learned from that, not to insult Islam, they persisted in their unfettered "Freedom of speech" clichés and this was the result. It was predictable this would happen so what what were they thinking?

That magazine should not have published those cartoons. By doing so they provoked this action.

For those going on about "Freedom of Speech", sometimes they forget, even in the UK, it has limits.

On this very forum, text speak is not permitted by forum rules, you could argue that is an unacceptable curtailment of freedom of speech, but in practice, we all accept and abide by that rule.

In the wider environment, we have laws against incitement to hatred, based on race, gender, religion and orientation. Those claiming the trump card of freedom of speech are quick to condemn anyone who is not politically correct. It cuts both way!

again you blame everyone but the murderers?

next you will be telling us that girls who wear short skirts deserve to get raped as they "had it coming"?

[arista]

First of all I said they brought it on themselves NOT They had it coming, which some apparently have said. Those two are not the same!

Suppose you go up to a wasp's nest and hit it with a big stick. If you get stung, you will have brought it on yourself, not that you had it coming.

Going back as far as the 1980's and the Satanic Verses, it is well known that by offending Islam, violent reprisals will be metered out. It happened in Denmark over cartoons of their holy prophet, where British Newspapers showed respect and restraint by refusing to publish them.

This magazine was fire bombed in 2011, so they should have learned from that, not to insult Islam, they persisted in their unfettered "Freedom of speech" clichés and this was the result. It was predictable this would happen so what what were they thinking?

That magazine should not have published those cartoons. By doing so they provoked this action.

For those going on about "Freedom of Speech", sometimes they forget, even in the UK, it has limits.

On this very forum, text speak is not permitted by forum rules, you could argue that is an unacceptable curtailment of freedom of speech, but in practice, we all accept and abide by that rule.

In the wider environment, we have laws against incitement to hatred, based on race, gender, religion and orientation. Those claiming the trump card of freedom of speech are quick to condemn anyone who is not politically correct. It cuts both way!


Yes Sticks The boss knew it was a risk
he was on a Hit List.

But the President of France is also to blame
as he made the protection smaller
saving money.

[Dollface]

again you blame everyone but the murderers?

next you will be telling us that girls who wear short skirts deserve to get raped as they "had it coming"?

^

[Ninastar]

You're right, BL. Many victims of ISIL are Muslim. And many are not. And many Western Muslims condemn atrocities and support the people suffering. And many Western non-Muslims do the same. It's unfair to suggest that people only make a noise about this stuff when it happens in Europe or the US. People of all colours and creeds have been sickened by ISIL's actions in the Middle East and have not been backward in voicing that.

And now the fight is being brought to the streets of European capitals and really, no one is safe. But there is still a general reluctance for Muslims to come forward and condemn what the terrorists do, let alone pass on intelligence that could be helpful to the security services.

Thank you... once again, I've agreed with everything you've said today... All hail Queen Livia

[Sticks]

again you blame everyone but the murderers?

next you will be telling us that girls who wear short skirts deserve to get raped as they "had it coming"?

Yet again I do not use the expression, "Had it coming", but "brought it on themselves"

There is a response to your hypothetical, which is not mine but from the wife of a former evangelist I used to know, but that would be off topic.

[sassysocks]

Strict Muslims
will not allow you
to joke about them

And the rest of the world who have the intelligence to see these backward thinking, cowardly bully boys for what they are will never allow such trash to intimidate them.

These cowardly animals may be able to intimidate their own unarmed women and girls into submission, but only mentally challenged Muslim extremists can actually believe they can take on the rest of us.

Bunch of no-hopers trying deperately to be somebodys. In their dreams!

[sassysocks]

First of all I said they brought it on themselves NOT They had it coming, which some apparently have said. Those two are not the same!

Suppose you go up to a wasp's nest and hit it with a big stick. If you get stung, you will have brought it on yourself, not that you had it coming.

Going back as far as the 1980's and the Satanic Verses, it is well known that by offending Islam, violent reprisals will be metered out. It happened in Denmark over cartoons of their holy prophet, where British Newspapers showed respect and restraint by refusing to publish them.

This magazine was fire bombed in 2011, so they should have learned from that, not to insult Islam, they persisted in their unfettered "Freedom of speech" clichés and this was the result. It was predictable this would happen so what what were they thinking?

That magazine should not have published those cartoons. By doing so they provoked this action.

For those going on about "Freedom of Speech", sometimes they forget, even in the UK, it has limits.

On this very forum, text speak is not permitted by forum rules, you could argue that is an unacceptable curtailment of freedom of speech, but in practice, we all accept and abide by that rule.

In the wider environment, we have laws against incitement to hatred, based on race, gender, religion and orientation. Those claiming the trump card of freedom of speech are quick to condemn anyone who is not politically correct. It cuts both way!

Islam is simply one religion among many and has no right to special consideration. All religions are open to ridicule - no exceptions for Islam. The more they try to put themselves on a pedalstall through threats and intimidation, the worse they make it for themselves and hence bring it on themselves. Do they really believe they can intimidate everyone.

The rest of the world should not and will not allow these idiots to intimidate them. Shame on anyone who says they should.

[Nedusa]

First of all I said they brought it on themselves NOT They had it coming, which some apparently have said. Those two are not the same!

Suppose you go up to a wasp's nest and hit it with a big stick. If you get stung, you will have brought it on yourself, not that you had it coming.

Going back as far as the 1980's and the Satanic Verses, it is well known that by offending Islam, violent reprisals will be metered out. It happened in Denmark over cartoons of their holy prophet, where British Newspapers showed respect and restraint by refusing to publish them.

This magazine was fire bombed in 2011, so they should have learned from that, not to insult Islam, they persisted in their unfettered "Freedom of speech" clichés and this was the result. It was predictable this would happen so what what were they thinking?

That magazine should not have published those cartoons. By doing so they provoked this action.

For those going on about "Freedom of Speech", sometimes they forget, even in the UK, it has limits.

On this very forum, text speak is not permitted by forum rules, you could argue that is an unacceptable curtailment of freedom of speech, but in practice, we all accept and abide by that rule.

In the wider environment, we have laws against incitement to hatred, based on race, gender, religion and orientation. Those claiming the trump card of freedom of speech are quick to condemn anyone who is not politically correct. It cuts both way!

Yes you are right they had it coming all right.... For putting their pencils on a piece of paper and making a few shapes they deserved to have someone come into their place of work and empty half a Kalashnikov magazine into them.

[MTVN]

I never said I supported banning Muslims entering the UK, the closure of mosques (unless they support extremists, and let's face it, some do) or any other unlawful action. However, when the first reaction of so many people is "oh the poor ordinary Muslims" it's a skewed, in my opinion.

The vast majority of people already know that most Muslims are ordinary, hard-working, law-abiding members of the community and only the very stupidest in our society would target them based simply on their religion. And keeping the focus on ordinary Muslims and worrying about how the stupidest people in society will react IS taking away from the terrorist attrocity by pre-empting the victimisation of innocent Muslims where clearly that isn't happening. I haven't seen twelve Muslims shot dead in Paris. I haven't seen a Muslim hacked to death on the streets of Britain, nor have I seen a mass coming together of Muslims to denounce the action of their brothers and sisters.

IMO that's the wrong attitude when for the vast majority of Muslims in the West they are going to have more in common with you and me than they are these extremists. There is a common enemy here and I find it near impossible to generalise across the Muslim population in any way considering how bitterly divided their religion is. The Islamic world is tearing itself apart right now the way that the Christian world did in the 16th and 17th centuries. I don't believe your average Muslim in the West should feel any guilt or responsibility about this when they too are a victim of it. And I do think it is important to make that point, else we risk becoming engulfed in racial violence and chaos. I'd go even further and say that distinguishing ordinary Muslims from extremists is vital to confronting and tackling extremism in general, and not just a token and insensitive gesture by self-righteous leftists. After all, one of the police officers killed yesterday was himself a Muslim which does tragically illustrate the point. If we can't remind people that extremists do not represent all Islam on the day that a Muslim police officer has laid down his life to prevent terrorism, then when can we? Shall we wait till grenades have been thrown at Mosques - as has now happened - before anyone speaks up? It's what was so positive imo about the Sydney attacks that Australians immediately expressed their solidarity with the Muslim population rather than turning on it.

[Livia]

Yet again I do not use the expression, "Had it coming", but "brought it on themselves"



The magazine pokes fun at all religions. They've had a go at the Jews regularly. Do I like it? Not particularly. Do I uphold their right to do it? Absolutely. Islam is not a special case, they've tried to make themselves a special case and some people believe that spin - obviously. The Quran itself questions other religions and fundamentalist Muslims regard non-Muslims as little more than animals. But we have to be respectful of a religion that feels that way? A religion (I'm referring exclusively to ISIL and other fundamentalist terrorists) men that rape, torture, murder, desecrate churches and synagogues murdering people in their place of worship and other assorted atrocities, all in the name of Allah. And if we're not respectful of their religion, they'll rock up on our doorstep with automatic weapons and a rocket launcher? And you have little sympathy with the dead because they "brought it on themselves"? Incredible.

[Livia]

IMO that's the wrong attitude when for the vast majority of Muslims in the West they are going to have more in common with you and me than they are these extremists. There is a common enemy here and I find it near impossible to generalise across the Muslim population in any way considering how bitterly divided their religion is. The Islamic world is tearing itself apart right now the way that the Christian world did in the 16th and 17th centuries. I don't believe your average Muslim in the West should feel any guilt or responsibility about this when they too are a victim of it. And I do think it is important to make that point, else we risk becoming engulfed in racial violence and chaos. I'd go even further and say that distinguishing ordinary Muslims from extremists is vital to confronting and tackling extremism in general, and not just a token and insensitive gesture by self-righteous leftists. After all, one of the police officers killed yesterday was himself a Muslim which does tragically illustrate the point. If we can't remind people that extremists do not represent all Islam on the day that a Muslim police officer has laid down his life to prevent terrorism, then when can we? Shall we wait till grenades have been thrown at Mosques - as has now happened - before anyone speaks up? It's what was so positive imo about the Sydney attacks that Australians immediately expressed their solidarity with the Muslim population rather than turning on it.

There has been a bit of a backlash, as I said before, by the stupidest people in society. But the vast majority of people understand the difference between Muslims and terrorists. You studied in Norwich, there has been a Muslim community in Norwich for hundreds of years, one of the oldest Muslim communities in the country. There has been no backlash against them because people understand the difference.

I don't see anyone turning on the Muslim community as a whole. I see a couple of kneejerk comments after twelve people were gunned down in cold blood. I worked quite a bit in Jordan last year. There is no shortage of Muslims utterly condemning the actions of ISIL who are just one border away from them. I want to see everyone standing together to condemn these people, Christians, Jews, Muslims, people with no faith... If we're going to stand together we need to be seen to be standing together.

[Johnnyuk123]

I think France will respond soon by bring in new laws asap to tackle this serious problem and shut their borders whilst they deal with these terrorists until further notice.

[Cherie]

First of all I said they brought it on themselves NOT They had it coming, which some apparently have said. Those two are not the same!

Suppose you go up to a wasp's nest and hit it with a big stick. If you get stung, you will have brought it on yourself, not that you had it coming.

Going back as far as the 1980's and the Satanic Verses, it is well known that by offending Islam, violent reprisals will be metered out. It happened in Denmark over cartoons of their holy prophet, where British Newspapers showed respect and restraint by refusing to publish them.

This magazine was fire bombed in 2011, so they should have learned from that, not to insult Islam, they persisted in their unfettered "Freedom of speech" clichés and this was the result. It was predictable this would happen so what what were they thinking?

That magazine should not have published those cartoons. By doing so they provoked this action.

For those going on about "Freedom of Speech", sometimes they forget, even in the UK, it has limits.

On this very forum, text speak is not permitted by forum rules, you could argue that is an unacceptable curtailment of freedom of speech, but in practice, we all accept and abide by that rule.

In the wider environment, we have laws against incitement to hatred, based on race, gender, religion and orientation. Those claiming the trump card of freedom of speech are quick to condemn anyone who is not politically correct. It cuts both way!

That is a very strange analogy :umm2:

[T*]

That is a very strange analogy :umm2:

this

[T*]

again you blame everyone but the murderers?

next you will be telling us that girls who wear short skirts deserve to get raped as they "had it coming"?

This

[the truth]

the trouble is because the views of the silent majority are being oppressed and silenced by liberal twats calling them all racist bigots, then the frustration grows to boilding point. worse fo all these hypocritical liberals all voted for illegal wars in foreign fields, killion a million innocents, yet these same liberals get more offended by words than a million deaths.....these liberal are as guilty of creating the environment for terrorism as anyone

[GypsyGoth]

Islam is not really a normal anything


What is the ruling on the apostate?

If a Muslim apostatizes and meets the conditions of apostasy – i.e., he is of sound mind, an adult and does that of his own free will – then his blood may be shed with impunity. He is to be executed by the Muslim ruler or by his deputy – such as the qaadi or judge, and he is not to not be washed (after death, in preparation for burial), the funeral prayer is not to be offered for him and he is not to be buried with the Muslims.

http://islamqa.info/en/20327


pQzuFrMRA3M

Yea I was gonna say moderate instead of normal, but I think that makes it sound like the moderate ones are not the regular ones.

And I understand in part how messed up their religion is (I hadn't heard of that apostate rule before), however there is a lot of muslims who seem to be decent peaceful people. I suppose in essence it's just like the other main religions; primitive, sexist and homophobic, except it's worse.

Anyway there is something wrong in the way we (the west) educate people who are raised here if they are going off and fighting on the same side as Islamic State or carrying out attacks, in their name, on our soil.

So I think the solution isn't to demonize all muslims, it's education.

[the truth]

Yea I was gonna say moderate instead of normal, but I think that makes it sound like the moderate ones are not the regular ones.

And I understand in part how messed up their religion is (I hadn't heard of that apostate rule before), however there is a lot of muslims who seem to be decent peaceful people. I suppose in essence it's just like the other main religions; primitive, sexist and homophobic, except it's worse.

Anyway there is something wrong in the way we (the west) educate people who are raised here if they are going off and fighting on the same side as Islamic State or carrying out attacks, in their name, on our soil.

So I think the solution isn't to demonize all muslims, it's education.

I believe you are wrong. this is a problem with one specific religion , it has nothing to do with other religions at all. that must be made very clear. Christianity and islam are wholly differnt and in many ways its becoming clear they are worlds apart and perhaps cannot be expected to live together in peace

[GypsyGoth]

I believe you are wrong. this is a problem with one specific religion , it has nothing to do with other religions at all. that must be made very clear. Christianity and islam are wholly differnt and in many ways its becoming clear they are worlds apart and perhaps cannot be expected to live together in peace

I didn't say the problem was because of other religions, I said that islam is as messed up as the other religions but worse.

[the truth]

I didn't say the problem was because of other religions, I said that islam is as messed up as the other religions but worse.

nonsense. its a totally different set of rules. you may as well compare atheism to islam....or jedi to buddhism....totally different. at its heart islam doesnt believe in forgiveness or redemption which is at the core of Christs teachings........and Jesus said to the people, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, one by one they all walked away and he said to the woman now go and sin no more.......forgiveness and redemption

[GypsyGoth]

nonsense. its a totally different set of rules. you may as well compare atheism to islam....or jedi to buddhism....totally different. at its heart islam doesnt believe in forgiveness or redemption which is at the core of Christs teachings........and Jesus said to the people, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, one by one they all walked away and he said to the woman now go and sin no more.......forgiveness and redemption

I'm sure none of the major religions like being compared to each other, but to me there are more similarities than differences.

However this discussion is for another thread, otherwise it will derail this one.

[the truth]

I'm sure none of the major religions like being compared to each other, but to me there are more similarities than differences.

However this discussion is for another thread, otherwise it will derail this one.

there are more difference than similarities. pls elaborate how you come to your conclusion

[GypsyGoth]

there are more difference than similarities. pls elaborate how you come to your conclusion

I am speaking about islam, christianity and judaism. They all have a main prophet, they have wisemen or male priests or some such who interpret their god's plan. They all only worship one god (usually referred to as a "he"). They've got kinda primitive beliefs (not meant as an insult, just that their belief systems are ancient and were formed before our modern understanding of this world and the universe). They all have a holy day during the week, they have masses with rituals, they believe that prayers offered to their respective god will in some way better their own lives. I could go on with this list, but you get the idea, yes? You see how they are similar now?

[Brother Leon]

Don't worry Claudia. I get what you mean and it's a very valid point. Don't let ignorance frustrate you :laugh:

[the truth]

I am speaking about islam, christianity and judaism. They all have a main prophet, they have wisemen or male priests or some such who interpret their god's plan. They all only worship one god (usually referred to as a "he"). They've got kinda primitive beliefs (not meant as an insult, just that their belief systems are ancient and were formed before our modern understanding of this world and the universe). They all have a holy day during the week, they have masses with rituals, they believe that prayers offered to their respective god will in some way better their own lives. I could go on with this list, but you get the idea, yes? You see how they are similar now?

primitive? love peace enlghtnemnet redemption forgiveness etc these are timeless values of Christs teachings NOT of the curan. these are not primitive they are infinite. the religions are infinitely different. how many Christians do you see preaching hate and war on the streets recruiting suicide bombers in their churches? they are wholly different religions. this is a problem with 1 religion only, islam.

[the truth]

Don't worry Claudia. I get what you mean and it's a very valid point. Don't let ignorance frustrate you :laugh:

Yes I wont let the ignorance of branding all religions the same frustrate me. ps the mass murder of innocents is NOt a laughing matter, shame on you:nono:

[GypsyGoth]

Don't worry Claudia. I get what you mean and it's a very valid point. Don't let ignorance frustrate you :laugh:

Thank you :love:

primitive? love peace enlghtnemnet redemption forgiveness etc these are timeless values of Christs teachings NOT of the curan. these are not primitive they are infinite. the religions are infinitely different. how many Christians do you see preaching hate and war on the streets recruiting suicide bombers in their churches? they are wholly different religions. this is a problem with 1 religion only, islam.

I'll chat about it another time with you :douf:

[Brother Leon]

Yes I wont let the ignorance of branding all religions the same frustrate me. ps the mass murder of innocents is NOt a laughing matter, shame on you:nono:

She didn't say they are all the same though, did she?

She simply said they are all similar. At the end of the day, all religion is about submission. It's not difficult to grasp what she means.

[the truth]

She didn't say they are all the same though, did she?

She simply said they are all similar. At the end of the day, all religion is about submission. It's not difficult to grasp what she means.

generalized nonsense. all religions are not about that at all and all religions are different. youre generalizing about billions bordering on discrimination. thats as silly as saying all americans are about this or all europeans are about that....its mindless talk....theres billions of different people 100s of relgions all with different rules and beliefs. i choose Christianity, I believe its wholly different and wholly superior

[the truth]

Thank you :love:



I'll chat about it another time with you :douf:
will you? how big of you.....i may not have the time then sorry

[Sticks]

Yes you are right they had it coming all right.... For putting their pencils on a piece of paper and making a few shapes they deserved to have someone come into their place of work and empty half a Kalashnikov magazine into them.


I did not say "had it coming", that implies a moral imperative, or karma (if you believe in that), getting just deserts, being punished.

I said "Brought it on themselves", it is more similar to "If you play with fire then you may get burned", a better expression could be "Author of their own misfortune", For instance trying to show a dog you love it, by petting it, even though that animal has a known reputation for biting, and getting bit anyway. Did they deserve to get bit? Absolutely not, did they have it coming, no way, but did they bring it upon themselves, yes, they were told the dog had a reputation and warned to keep clear, but they did not heed the warning, even if their motives were pure.

Getting back to what happened in France, on the today programme on BBC Radio 4, they had a man from High Wycombe, who was passionately angry at what the cartoonists had been doing, by insulting the Holy Prophet, and none of those killed were innocent. This man insisted that nobody should be allowed to insult The Holy Prophet.

That interview was telling of the hurt these cartoons caused to many Muslims.

It is known, has been known since Salman Rushdie published the Satanic Verses, how some Muslims may react if they feel that their Holy prophet is insulted, with passion and violence.

Remember the Danish cartoons, and the violence that came with that? Remember how in 2011 that magazine was fire-bombed

With those examples, it was predictable what kind of reaction would be engendered by publishing those cartoons. Just like my earlier example, is it really wise or expedient to take a stick to a wasp nest in order to remove it?

By insisting on freedom of speech and publishing anyway, when it would have been known what reaction would be generated amongst passionate people, some of whom have a propensity to violence, they were proverbially playing with fire. Very noble but was that really such a smart idea?

Let us go to another example, serving soldiers were told not to wear uniforms when off duty, because it pinpoints them out to terrorists, such as the IRA during the 80's and 90's. There was one attack in the 90's at a mainline railway station, maybe Reading, when two soldiers were slaughters in a gun attack. So NOT wearing uniforms when off duty is a wise and expedient precaution.

Likewise, curbing what cartoonists draw an publish seems like a sensible precaution against the lone wolves that our intelligence services admit they can not keep track of. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30734290)

[arista]

there was a Car Chase in the Rain

with a reported Hostage with
the Brothers - If the reports are correct?

Now a Town is blocked off
3 Helicopters , one is military
more reports of 2 people dead.
No one is able to get in
Police have blocked all exits in to the town.
Snipers ready

http://news.sky.com/story/1404787/france-terror-two-dead-amid-hostage-siege



Live on SkyNewsHD

[user104658]

primitive? love peace enlghtnemnet redemption forgiveness etc these are timeless values of Christs teachings NOT of the curan. these are not primitive they are infinite. the religions are infinitely different. how many Christians do you see preaching hate and war on the streets recruiting suicide bombers in their churches? they are wholly different religions. this is a problem with 1 religion only, islam.
Today? Not many, though there are some fairly extreme organisations (just not well enough backed to be any threat). 500 years ago? Lots. 1000 years ago? Pretty much every church. Christianity was used to create an empire. It was the beating heart of war drums for over a thousand years, from the Crusades to the colonisation of the Americas. It's a fairly placid religion now mostly but that's because it has reached middle age and is more relaxed / reflective. Remember that Islam is a much newer religion. Still "in its angry teens", if you will. That's the only real difference. That and, unfortunately, that there were only wooden boats and swords (and maybe muskets) when Christianity had its hissy fit, but Islam has assault rifles and bombs to play with.

However, religion is only ever a mere tool. The Roman Empire, The Crusades, the expansion of the British Empire - all of these used (I'm afraid, The Truth, murderous) Christianity to achieve their non-religious goals of power.

This latest attack has only confirmed for me that there is something seriously ****ing sinister and unfathomable going on at the moment. These men were well trained soldiers. Not the usual gun-toting amateurs. Witnesses describe men who handled their firearms and moved in a way that suggested significant formal training in weapons and tactics. And who were considered dispensable, despite being valuable assets (again, not like the usual disposable kids normally used in terrorist attacks). All this because they were supposedly "offended by satirical cartoons"? No. It's nonsense. There is a clear and widespread global agenda to spark a twisted civil war across Western nations. I have no idea what the end goal of that agenda is. Thus far it makes very little sense. What I do know is, that it's so well orchestrated, pulling just the right strings here and pressing the right buttons there, that I'm damn sure it's not being planned out by people in dusty middle eastern caves. There is more to it. Much more. Something much more terrifying - something that involves all of the "major players".

Before anyone starts I am not defending terrorists or murderers or acts like this. They are abhorrent,sickening, a horrendous waste of the lives of people who had nothing to do with any of this and were just trying to make light in a perpetually dark world.

I just think it's absolutely tragic that the people who selected Charlie Hebdo as a target and orchestrated this barbarity (note: NOT MUSLIMS, NOT ALL MIDDLE EASTERN, NOT CLASSIC TERRORISTS, PROBABLY A SELECTION OF MEN VERY EXPENSIVE SUITS) will never face any sort of justice. We're all being whacked with a great big wooden stick (Islamic extremism) but instead of punishing the bully wielding the stick, we just shout "argh! Burn that stick!! Burn ALL the sticks!"

Ranting a bit. Sorry. It's not like I think anything can be done about this ****. We just have to duck our heads and hope we don't get caught in the crossfire and that the world won't be too unbearable when the dust settles. I won't lie - I'm selfishly glad that I live somewhere that's less likely to see the worst of this madness.

[kirklancaster]

"First of all I said they brought it on themselves NOT They had it coming, which some apparently have said. Those two are not the same!"


Sorry Sticks, but this is just mere pedanticism. “Brought it on themselves” and “They had it coming” are merely different ways of saying the same thing by common usage definition, ie; their own actions (in drawing and publishing the cartoon) are causal, and being murdered is the result.

“Suppose you go up to a wasp's nest and hit it with a big stick. If you get stung, you will have brought it on yourself, not that you had it coming.”

Yes, Wasps are creatures who like Rats, and Flies, co-exist - for no logical reason IMHO - with Mankind on this Earth. Their capability to inflict pain and suffering or even death is well known so we leave them alone, shun them, avoid them. They build their nests in the garden or elsewhere and we have our homes, and most of the time peaceful co-existence is possible. But wasps are not content with their own space, they want our spaces – our garages, our loftspaces, even inside our homes, and they keep invading our spaces to inflict pain, suffering and death on innocent people, and it becomes necessary to ‘zap’ them individually – to prevent more human suffering and death you understand?

Sometimes, however, this does not deter them and the pain and suffering and deaths to innocent humans not only continues but the frequency increases. Then we have no other choice but to trace their nests to destroy it and stop all this terror at source. Sometimes, when we haven’t been vigilant or we are have been apathetic, we find out that wasps have even built nests in our spaces.

But you’re absolutely right Sticks, ‘hitting it with a big stick’ isn’t the way to treat a wasps nest. I think the expert exterminators kill them all by gassing or suchlike. Personally I don’t give a feck as long as the ‘orrible bastards are gone and we can all enjoy our lives in relative peace without fear of being harmed or dying through being stung.

Feck me – I do ramble on. I forgot what I was on about there for a moment. Oh yes, Wasps.

“Going back as far as the 1980's and the Satanic Verses, it is well known that by offending Islam, violent reprisals will be metered out. It happened in Denmark over cartoons of their holy prophet, where British Newspapers showed respect and restraint by refusing to publish them.”

You are a gifted writer Sticks, so I am really surprised to find you trying to excuse forced censorship of artistic expression, freedom of speech and literary freedom by the use of intimidation, murder and violence by terrorists, in your comments above.

You really are a skilled writer, because you lace your comments with subliminally emotive words such as; ‘Offending Islam’, ‘meted out’ (a most benign little phrase, evocative of ‘sharing out’ as in food rations or money, or ‘dispensing’ as in ‘dispensing justice’, which subliminally suggests that the murders in cold blood by these devils of innocent people was lawful, fit, and proper) ‘Holy Prophet’ (again a very emotive combination of words) and ‘respect and restraint’.

The above is much a much more innocuous way than saying; ‘An author, living in a liberal democracy wrote a great novel of fiction in which he expressed certain ideas to “provoke the imagination” and as a result, evil Islamic Fundamentalists irrationally and unjustly declared a Fatwa on him, which led to the despicable cold-blooded murders of an Editor, a Publisher, and a Translator, and to the death of hundreds of people in world-wide riots, and the burning of books from “Bolton to Islamabad” in some Orwellian dystopian nightmare.

“This magazine was fire bombed in 2011, so they should have learned from that, not to insult Islam, they persisted in their unfettered "Freedom of speech" clichés and this was the result. It was predictable this would happen so what what were they thinking?”

They were probably thinking what billions of sane rational people around the world are thinking; that evil despotic minorities should never, ever, be allowed to subjugate decent moral majorities by murder and violent intimidation.

“That magazine should not have published those cartoons. By doing so they provoked this action.”

You are condemning the poor victims, and inferring that their cold-blooded execution by these evil demons is justified because they published a cartoon. But again, Sticks, everything you write could be construed as thinly veiled ‘terrorist apologetics’. Where is your condemnation of these barbaric murdering demons? Not one word.

“For those going on about "Freedom of Speech", sometimes they forget, even in the UK, it has limits.
On this very forum, text speak is not permitted by forum rules, you could argue that is an unacceptable curtailment of freedom of speech, but in practice, we all accept and abide by that rule.“

Yes; “we all accept and abide by that rule” but this is a rule on a Forum which we have elected to join and therefore, by default we accept such rules. But outside this specific forum, on other forums, or in the great democratic countries of the world in general where “text speak” is permitted, we can freely use it if we CHOOSE to without fear of TIBB moderators seeking us out and murdering us in cold blood.

Your analogy is ludicrous Sticks.

“In the wider environment, we have laws against incitement to hatred, based on race, gender, religion and orientation. Those claiming the trump card of freedom of speech are quick to condemn anyone who is not politically correct. It cuts both way!”

I don’t fully understand what you are trying to say here Sticks, I really don’t. But I will say; that we also have man-made written laws against Murder and Intimidation, as well as universal unwritten laws on morality, and these barbaric, inhuman demons breach every law under both codes by their continuous bombing, maiming and slaughter of innocent people.

I just wish that all those on here who are quick to criticise myself and others for our ‘small-minded, bigoted views’ in condemnation of these atrocities, were as quick and scathing of the bastards perpetrating them. Unfortunately, the ones making the loudest noises on here against us are the very ones whose silence on the terrorists and terrorism is the most notable.

[arista]

No one can photo this Live Event
so they could Kill them both
without any cameras on it

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/24887F4E00000578-2903042-Prior_to_the_standoff_the_suspects_hijacked_a_Peug eot_206_in_Mon-m-35_1420796489915.jpg

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/2488C10800000578-0-image-a-42_1420798457685.jpg


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/2488758700000578-2903042-image-a-20_1420795581002.jpg
Getting ready for the Final Bloodbath

[kirklancaster]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/2488C10800000578-0-image-a-42_1420798457685.jpg


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/2488758700000578-2903042-image-a-20_1420795581002.jpg
Getting ready for the Final Bloodbath

Just want to say a sincere thanks Arista for all the hard work you do on all threads in bringing us all these articles and updates. It's better than having the news channel on all day. Thanks - and I mean this.

As a footnote, let's hope your reported casualty is one of them and not some innocent cop or civilian.

[Nedusa]

Thanks Nedusa - I keep thinking I'll quit and not bother posting at all, but I'm not made like that and can't help it.

No Kirk... Please do not stop posting, your posts are well written,well researched and are very informative.

KUTGW





.

[Cherie]

The death of the police woman yesterday has now been linked to this. Some guy who had an appointment at the Printing Company where they have taken a hostage came face to face with one of the terrorists (he thought he was a policeman as he was dressed in black and had body armour and was carrying a gun), the guy told him to leave and apparently told him they didn't kill civilians. :umm2: Lets hope that is the case with the hostage.

[Kizzy]

'I just wish that all those on here who are quick to criticise myself and others for our ‘small-minded, bigoted views’ in condemnation of these atrocities, were as quick and scathing of the bastards perpetrating them. Unfortunately, the ones making the loudest noises on here against us are the very ones whose silence on the terrorists and terrorism is the most notable.'

I don't think it's 'us and them' like this kirk, we all condemn them that goes without saying surely who would find their actions justified but other terrorists?...
What is being voiced is a need for perspective here in a world of muslims what fraction are terrorists in the west?
If we treat British muslims as aliens then that just feeds animosity and distrust.

[kirklancaster]

No Kirk... Please do not stop posting, your posts are well written,well researched and are very informative.

KUTGW

.

Thanks Nedusa, and those are the exact adjectives I'd use to describe your posts. I am genuinely honoured to have you as a 'friend'.

[arista]

Terror Suspects 'Ready To Die'

http://news.sky.com/story/1404787/paris-terror-suspects-ready-to-die

[Smithy]

3rd shooting apparently underway in eastern Paris :worry:

[kirklancaster]

Both the reported comment by one of the terrorists that "We don't kill civilians", and his action in letting the print shop customer "go" would appear very noble, but - again - actual analysis of the 'sub-text' reveals a great anomaly -- if they "don't kill civilians" what is the point of taken a petrified civilian hostage?

An hostage who you are not going to kill is totally useless because where is the leverage?

"Keep back coppers and get me a fully fueled jet and clearance to Syria, or the hostage gets tickled"

Naah I don't think so.

[Sticks]

kirklancaster of course murder is wrong, but what the magazine did was inexpedient given what has gone before. I did not say their murder was justified, but that such an action taken against them was bound to happen.

As an aside, I have come across this article (http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2015/01/in-the-wake-of-charlie-hebdo-free-speech-does-not-mean-freedom-from-criticism/), which is critical of that magazine. To quote a contact on Facebook who has lived in France.

Charlie Hebdo was a racist publication drawn by white men. Freedom of speech in France is freedom for white people to S**t on everybody else.

Are you so quick to defend this magazine, given it's racist leanings, to print what it likes? Does this really fall into the maxim attributed to Voltaire, "Je suis en profond désaccord avec ce que vous dites, mais défendrai jusqu'à la mort votre droit de le dire "

"I disagree profoundly with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it"

This was not true satire of the likes of Gilray in the 19th Century or Private Eye in the 20th Century.

You say I am "trying to excuse forced censorship of artistic expression, freedom of speech and literary freedom by the use of intimidation, murder and violence by terrorists", what I am advocating are pragmatic precautions. Sometimes we have to self censor, for pragmatic purposes. We can not tell our boss that his jokes are just not funny, especially if we want a raise, or we know he has been tasked with selecting people for the chop in a round of cost cutting.

Returning to the terrorism example, I have already given you the example of how armed forces personnel are instructed not to wear uniform when off duty, because of possible attacks (Stemming from the IRA). Remember how Lee Rigsby was callously murdered by Jihad-is because they just wanted to murder a soldier? These murderers waited until he had just come out of the barracks in Woolwich, which identified him to them as a soldier.

Continuing with that theme, several years ago, I was told by someone who had served during the troubles, that when off duty, they could not visit certain shops or certain parts of the town, as republicans there would note they had short haircuts, identifying them as members of the armed forces, and their details would be taken so they could be attacked. They were also barred from certain shops, because the shop personnel would suffer reprisals for serving them, and they were not to put those people at risk.

This was in effect an infringement on their freedom, especially when they were off duty, but these infringements were accepted for good pragmatic reasons.

Coming back to today, there are individuals and groups who have the means to mount such attacks as happened in France or the one in Australia. They are very passionate about their "Holy Prophet", with the man from High Wycombe saying he loved the "Holy Prophet" more than his wife and children. (Note the quotes around "Holy Prophet", maybe I should of used them earlier) MI5 says it can not stop these people, especially the lone wolves.

Is provoking such people to violence, by publishing material that they find offensive such a smart idea? Sure it is your right of free expression to insult them and their beliefs, but is it pragmatic or expedient?

Finally for the moment you say “Brought it on themselves” and “They had it coming” are merely different ways of saying the same thing by common usage definition

That is just an excuse to be lazy about use of the English language.

Both expressions do cite a causal link, but the second expression, "They had it coming" implies a moral dimensions where they deserved it, which clearly in this case they did not. The other expression says they are suffering certain consequences of actions taken, however well entitled they are to take such actions, e.g. publishing offensive cartoons, consequences that should have been anticipated.

[Beso]

It's very sad. women children taken hostage now.

Been watching all morning, canthelp feeling the news reporters are wanting it to all kick off on telly though.

[Kizzy]

2 hostages have been killed

[Kazanne]

Oh Jeez , what now? just as I thought this was coming to an end. I hope we are on alert.

[Josy]

Been following this on the live news, sounds like there's 2 of the supermarket hostages dead already and possibly more injured, also woman and children being held.

Hope this all ends soon and the less loss of more lives the better.

[Cherie]

The third gunman involved in the original attack and who allegedly handed himself in, there has been very little coverage of him, I ready somewhere last night (not sure if true) that the guy handed himself in as he was named on social media and was not involved and was in school at the time of the incident, anyone know anything else about this?

[arista]

Been following this on the live news, sounds like there's 2 of the supermarket hostages dead already and possibly more injured, also woman and children being held.

Hope this all ends soon and the less loss of more lives the better.

It appears at both locations
Police are so strong in Firepower
they will have to Die
Snipers are the best job

[arista]

2 hostages have been killed


what at the New one
Kosher Grocery Store?

[kirklancaster]

What happened to the "We don't kill civilians" crap - murdering bastards. Trust them? Appease them? Treat them with restraint, respect?

[Josy]

The third gunman involved in the original attack and who allegedly handed himself in, there has been very little coverage of him, I ready somewhere last night (not sure if true) that the guy handed himself in as he was named on social media and was not involved and was in school at the time of the incident, anyone know anything else about this?

Been wondering about him myself Cherie, I heard about him handing himself in then there's been nothing at all mentioned about it since, are you thinking this other gunman at the supermarket could be the real third gunman?

[Ammi]

..the two people believed to have taken hostages in the supermarket...


http://media.fyre.co/fLOlvF7uSSOwE2TywQzv_CEGrab_20150109_133204_295.jp g

[Cherie]

Been wondering about him myself Cherie, I heard about him handing himself in then there's been nothing at all mentioned about it since, are you thinking this other gunman at the supermarket could be the real third gunman?

Yes it seems a huge coincidence what with the shooting of the policewoman yesterday and now this hostage situation at the supermarket :suspect:

[Nedusa]

I am hearing now that what we are seeing from the terrorists is just a horrible ploy to divert police resources from a much greater atrocity which could result in mass civilian deaths.

These attacks 3 now all with hostages demanding massive police presences may be decoys to draws police resources away from the real attack possibly an attack using explosives, suicide bombers or car bombs to produce mass civilian deaths.

Really really worrying situation and getting worse by the hour.




.

[Ammi]

I am hearing now that what we are seeing from the terrorists is just a horrible ploy to divert police resources from a much greater atrocity which could result in mass civilian deaths.

These attacks 3 now all with hostages demanding massive police presences may be decoys to draws police resources away from the real attack possibly an attack using explosives, suicide bombers or car bombs to produce mass civilian deaths.

Really really worrying situation and getting worse by the hour.




.

..where is that source from, Nedusa..?..

[Cherie]

I am hearing now that what we are seeing from the terrorists is just a horrible ploy to divert police resources from a much greater atrocity which could result in mass civilian deaths.

These attacks 3 now all with hostages demanding massive police presences may be decoys to draws police resources away from the real attack possibly an attack using explosives, suicide bombers or car bombs to produce mass civilian deaths.

Really really worrying situation and getting worse by the hour.




.

I can't keep up where is the third hostage situation Nedusa?

[Ammi]

..there was a false alarm near the Eiffel Tower..is that the one..?..

..EDIT:..two hostage situations confirmed on sky...6 hostages being held in the supermarket and one in the factory..

[Nedusa]

I can't keep up where is the third hostage situation Nedusa?

One in North Eastern Paris, one in Khosher Bakery and my apologies the third incident was not a hostage incident.

So two hostage incidents at present, with two or three hostages dead in the bakery standoff.

Possibly the first of a wave of attacks




.

[arista]

..there was a false alarm near the Eiffel Tower..is that the one..?..

..EDIT:..two hostage situations confirmed on sky...6 hostages being held in the supermarket and one in the factory..


France has a Massive Police Force
but they are under attack
by Terrorists using Mega AK47

[Ammi]

..a woman has told Israel's Channel 2 that her nephew and his baby are among the hostages at the supermarket..

[letmein]

I'm waiting for France to pull a WWII and start waiting for the US to intervene. France has failed. This is beyond ridiculous now. How many more people have to be slaughtered before they get this under control?? They're probably on the phone right now requesting that Obama send help. The US would take these guys out in two seconds flat. No messing around. It makes me sick waking up and reading this nonsense.

[letmein]

..a woman has told Israel's Channel 2 that her nephew and his baby are among the hostages at the supermarket..

Just wonderful. :facepalm:

[arista]

..a woman has told Israel's Channel 2 that her nephew and his baby are among the hostages at the supermarket..


Yes thats making it all worse
FoxNewsHD is frothing at their mouth over this


France 24 English is great
and SkyNewsHD Live
and CNN Live

[arista]

France24 confirmed
there is 6 Hostages at the Kosher store in Paris

[Nedusa]

France24 confirmed
there is 6 Hostages at the Kosher store in Paris

There were 9 but 3 have already been killed.





.

[Crimson Dynamo]

if you recall after 7/7 London police shot an innocent man on the tube

[Ammi]

..Sky Live have just confirmed none of the supermarket hostages dead but one seriously injured...

[arista]

There were 9 but 3 have already been killed.





.


Yes its hard to get the truth
from the French police
who first said one was killed
now saying not.


You can not trust what they tell us.

[arista]

Roll on 6PM
when ITV / STV /UTV and others
give us local news.

The Problem with the BBC news is they will not leave the Live shot
of a distant printing works
but its dark in min.

This French Problem is taking away all the other news
so RTHD news is the only one not stuck like glue on France

[arista]

All News is now reporting
that they think the Police have invaded the
Terrorist Brothers in the Print Works
Explosions claimed


On CNN Paris Live
Anderson is in charge
http://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/anderson-cooper-cnn-malaysia-flight-370.jpg?w=670&h=377&crop=1

[Ammi]

..Picture of explosion in Dammartin-en-Goele which followed several rounds of gunshot...




http://media.fyre.co/YINtXDmSRLeHDsnwXJGk_exp.jpg

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/article-2903380-248B57B300000578-903_964x377.jpg
a few hours ago in Paris near the Kosher supermarket


http://news.sky.com/story/1405095/explosions-and-gunfire-at-hostage-stand-off
Live TV
link for the Explosions

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/248AD4CF00000578-2903380-image-a-61_1420813321576.jpg
Early on in Paris Today
fella he likes it Tight

[arista]

Reports Flash Bangs
at the Kosher Supermarket


So both places under Police attack

[Ammi]

..4 explosions heard from the supermarket a few moments ago, followed by another 2 a few seconds ago...



http://news.sky.com/story/1404756/live-updates-hostages-taken-in-france-attacks

[arista]

Kay Burley says its 6 Explosions
she is also Live on FoxNewsHD

[arista]

Medical teams
rush in
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/article-2903042-248B949B00000578-484_964x407.jpg

The 2 Terrorist Brothers are now Dead (SkyNewsHD reported) the one hostage is free
Well done the snipers

[MTVN]

Good work from the police securing the hostage in the warehouse's safety as well

[arista]

Good work from the police securing the hostage in the warehouse's safety as well


Yes we can have our News back now

[Ammi]

..yeah they obviously co ordinated them together so there was no time for any hostage killings/really well done to them, a great outcome...

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/2489B90A00000578-2903042-Footage_from_a_local_broadcaster_shows_a_team_of_h eavily_armed_p-m-37_1420810445070.jpg
Well Done France24
and SkyNewsHD

[arista]

..yeah they obviously co ordinated them together so there was no time for any hostage killings/really well done to them, a great outcome...


Yes rare to be this good.



Will France be under more attack
next week , though?

[Ammi]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/09/2489B90A00000578-2903042-Footage_from_a_local_broadcaster_shows_a_team_of_h eavily_armed_p-m-37_1420810445070.jpg
Well Done France24
and SkyNewsHD

..indeed and well done Kay Burley/great reporter...

[Northern Monkey]

Holy crap i've been out all day.Missed all this.Sounds like the cops have it under control now.Well done to them.

[arista]

Oh no
Anderson on CNN
will have to leave Gay Paris soon



Note : there is nothing wrong with being gay

[Niamh.]

Well done to the police and thank goodness it's over now

[arista]

Well done to the police and thank goodness it's over now


Yes make a great Film

[Ninastar]

Good riddance and well done to the police

[Northern Monkey]

Oh no
Anderson on CNN
will have to leave Gay Paris soon



Note : there is nothing wrong with being gay
:joker: