British newsagent determined to sell 100 of the new Hebdo magazine

[arista]

Only a 100
feck the price will be High.


But will she get a AK47 Visit?
thats more important

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/13/24AC280700000578-2908933-image-a-35_1421187917782.jpg
No do not give the press a Photo of yourself

Nervous: Village shopkeeper Ila Aghera admitted
she was 'shaking' over her decision to stock 100 copies
of the new Charlie Hebdo magazine on Friday,
but said: 'I don’t care because what I am doing is right'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2908933/The-British-newsagent-determined-sell-new-Hebdo-magazine-Woman-admits-nervous-wants-future-generations-happened.html#ixzz3Oljv7ck8



Just because the PM says it OK
does not come into this
Lady you could be done later
who will watch your back then?

[jennyjuniper]

Good on her. Someone has to stand up to those sicko's.

[Northern Monkey]

Good for her!She's brave.What needs to happen really is every newspaper needs to print these cartoons at once all accross Europe.A team effort type thing.Then not just one is singled out.Show these terrorists that they can't use bully tactics to oppress.

[arista]

Good for her!She's brave.What needs to happen really is every newspaper needs to print these cartoons at once all accross Europe.A team effort type thing.Then not just one is singled out.Show these terrorists that they can't use bully tactics to oppress.


Look while she sells it
Armed Police can covert watch over her.

But after that
she is on her own?



I am sorry but you are saying sell it
then get killed

[Nedusa]

The cartoons appearing in today's Charlie Hebdo newspaper are peaceful and conciliatory they show the prophet Muhammed with a tear in his eye holding a "Je suis Charlie" sign with the words above saying All is forgiven.

Yet on radio phone in shows this morning , ALL muslim callers said these latest cartoons were insulting to the Prophet and insulting to Islam.

WT actual F...........!!!!!

There is no pleasing these people, these were random muslims phoning in to a talk show yet every one of them say only "Their beloved faith" (Fairy Story) insulted by these cartoons.

Cartoons that tried to repair some of the damage whilst still promoting free speech.

I think this sums up the strangeness with the Islamic faith, people are so brain washed so conditioned to believe their faith is somehow so real that they have the right to commit any real physical actions to defend this illusory nonsense.

The arrogance is breathtaking and it will never go away until we all comply.

Many posters on here have tried to alert other posters/readers as to the very real threat that exists with these people and the lengths they are all prepared to go to , to defend and promote their "faith". Many posters have replied with posts attacking these warnings saying it is only a few who are extreme.

But they ALL hold these extreme arrogant beliefs albeit only a few are prepared to act on them, but I feel we are being far too complacent as to the real depth of feeling most muslims have, and we need to recognise that ultimate peaceful co-existance may in fact just be a pipe dream.





.

[arista]

"There is no pleasing these people,"

They can modify them all they want
the AK47 Muslim Terrorists do not mind
you sell it
they have a Right to hunt and kill you

its that black and white

[Northern Monkey]

Look while she sells it
Armed Police can covert watch over her.

But after that
she is on her own?



I am sorry but you are saying sell it
then get killedShe is doing a brave thing(if not a little stupid).Like i said in the rest of my post.ALL newspapers should stand up to these terrorists at once.

[arista]

She is doing a brave thing(if not a little stupid).Like i said in the rest of my post.ALL newspapers should stand up to these terrorists at once.


But its not that simple
as many Muslims who are not
Terrorists ,
would not want it sold

[Northern Monkey]

But its not that simple
as many Muslims who are not
Terrorists ,
would not want it sold

Well fortunately Europe is not Saudi Arabia and artistic freedom is(sopposedly) one of the things which seperates us from these oppressive regimes.Just because Muslims don't want it printed does'nt mean it should not be.They can feck off to a nice Islamic dictatorship if they can't handle it.

[Kizzy]

We can all bang on about freedom of speech and walk the street in our millions but it's brave people like this who put their life on the line that enforce it.

[Benjamin]

I hope this lady lives to tell the tale. :worry:

[Niamh.]

I hope this lady lives to tell the tale. :worry:

Same, all credit to her though, what a brave woman

[arista]

Well she has made her money back
as 80 are reserved

so only 20 for sale
They will have another £20 on them


But she would need a Armed Police to protect her forever
not going to happen

[user104658]

The cartoons appearing in today's Charlie Hebdo newspaper are peaceful and conciliatory they show the prophet Muhammed with a tear in his eye holding a "Je suis Charlie" sign with the words above saying All is forgiven.

Yet on radio phone in shows this morning , ALL muslim callers said these latest cartoons were insulting to the Prophet and insulting to Islam.

WT actual F...........!!!!!

There is no pleasing these people, these were random muslims phoning in to a talk show yet every one of them say only "Their beloved faith" (Fairy Story) insulted by these cartoons.

I agree with the religion = fairytales part but, to play devil's advocate, the images being peaceful and conciliatory is sort of irrelevant because the "offense" they feel isn't anything to do with whatever he happens to be doing in the images. many (I think most?) Muslims are taught that ANY visual depiction of any prophet is wrong / insulting, even if it's an anatomically correct attempt to draw what they might really have looked like, just standing doing nothing at all. So, I'm far from surprised that a cartoon holding a banner was deemed offensive.

I agree though it does illustrate the "strangeness" of it all. Not just Islam but all faiths, really. I was quite taken aback recently to learn that a friend of ours, who is a committed Christian, apparently "winces" when she hears people blaspheming, because it hurts her to hear people use her "friend" Jesus's name alongside swearing. Something that I do constantly! And my wife. And our 5 year old daughter... oops... ("UH! Look at this mess, Jeeeziss Chrissstt daddy" :joker: )

Anyway yes, it totally baffles me that people can get themselves so worked up over these things. I must be a very strange way to live, believing in supernatural forces and beings that can be "offended" etc. I can barely imagine it really.

[Brother Leon]

The cartoons appearing in today's Charlie Hebdo newspaper are peaceful and conciliatory they show the prophet Muhammed with a tear in his eye holding a "Je suis Charlie" sign with the words above saying All is forgiven.

Yet on radio phone in shows this morning , ALL muslim callers said these latest cartoons were insulting to the Prophet and insulting to Islam.

WT actual F...........!!!!!

There is no pleasing these people, these were random muslims phoning in to a talk show yet every one of them say only "Their beloved faith" (Fairy Story) insulted by these cartoons.

Cartoons that tried to repair some of the damage whilst still promoting free speech.

I think this sums up the strangeness with the Islamic faith, people are so brain washed so conditioned to believe their faith is somehow so real that they have the right to commit any real physical actions to defend this illusory nonsense.

The arrogance is breathtaking and it will never go away until we all comply.

Many posters on here have tried to alert other posters/readers as to the very real threat that exists with these people and the lengths they are all prepared to go to , to defend and promote their "faith". Many posters have replied with posts attacking these warnings saying it is only a few who are extreme.

But they ALL hold these extreme arrogant beliefs albeit only a few are prepared to act on them, but I feel we are being far too complacent as to the real depth of feeling most muslims have, and we need to recognise that ultimate peaceful co-existance may in fact just be a pipe dream.





.

It's offensive to depict the prophet in any form of drawing. It's not rocket science why they are offended.

[arista]

on radio 5
a Central London Newsagents man
said he has around 450 asking for it
he will sell it
they arrive for him on Friday

[Nedusa]

It's offensive to depict the prophet in any form of drawing. It's not rocket science why they are offended.

Someone, anyone please tell me why it is offensive to show a visual representation of an imaginery being ?

How is it offensive, why would it be offensive..........anyone with an IQ higher than an ant would have the sense to understand faith is just that Faith wishful thinking at best.

So why get angry ,offended, hurt, enraged, murderous, vengeful about something so damned esoteric.

It makes no sense at all

And to actually murder another human being, to take their life because they said or did something which upset your imaginery friend.

Well this to me is utterly incomprehensible, leaving me with the only rational explanation I have, which is that extreme religious belief like this is a form of acute mental illness and people displaying these more severe symptoms need to be removed from society and given treatment to help cure their affliction.

If no cure is possible then they should be removed from Humankind permanently as they are grave danger to normal people.

Oh and people who feed others these delusions should also be made to stop as it is a form of incitement or conspiracy to brainwash people into causing all manner of actual physical harm to otherwise innocent normal people.





.

[Brother Leon]

Someone, anyone please tell me why it is offensive to show a visual representation of an imaginery being ?

How is it offensive, why would it be offensive..........anyone with an IQ higher than an ant would have the sense to understand faith is just that Faith wishful thinking at best.

So why get angry ,offended, hurt, enraged, murderous, vengeful about something so damned esoteric.

It makes no sense at all

And to actually murder another human being, to take their life because they said or did something which upset your imaginery friend.

Well this to me is utterly incomprehensible, leaving me with the only rational explanation I have, which is that extreme religious belief like this is a form of acute mental illness and people displaying these more severe symptoms need to be removed from society and given treatment to help cure their affliction.

If no cure is possible then they should be removed from Humankind permanently as they are grave danger to normal people.

Oh and people who feed others these delusions should also be made to stop as it is a form of incitement or conspiracy to brainwash people into causing all manner of actual physical harm to otherwise innocent normal people.





.

Well, you need to chill...don't you.

No one is saying that the people who make the cartoons should be killed... Still doesn't mean Muslims shouldn't be offended by The Magazine, whichi s what you are complaining about. The same way there is a right to freedom of speech, there is a right to be offended. Not sure what position you are in to decide if they have a right to be offended or not.

Hell, the intention of the magazine is to pretty much be controversial and be offensive. You are criticising people who have faith in a religion just for the sake of it.

[Nedusa]

Well, you need to chill...don't you.

No one is saying that the people who make the cartoons should be killed... Still doesn't mean Muslims shouldn't be offended by The Magazine. The same way there is a right to freedom of speech, there is a right to be offended. Hell, the intention of the magazine is to pretty much be controversial and be offensive. You are criticising people who have faith in a religion just for the sake of it.

Well No.........not really

I am criticising people who have faith in a religion and decide to commit acts of mass murder because they think it would be offensive to their imaginery friend in the clouds.

slight difference....





.

[DemolitionRed]

Many posters on here have tried to alert other posters/readers as to the very real threat that exists with these people and the lengths they are all prepared to go to , to defend and promote their "faith". Many posters have replied with posts attacking these warnings saying it is only a few who are extreme.

But they ALL hold these extreme arrogant beliefs albeit only a few are prepared to act on them, but I feel we are being far too complacent as to the real depth of feeling most muslims have, and we need to recognise that ultimate peaceful co-existance may in fact just be a pipe dream.

.

You clearly don't know many Muslims.

[DemolitionRed]

I hope this lady lives to tell the tale. :worry:

Me too but I'll add to that; I hope all the customers that come in her newsagents live to tell the tale.

The thing is, she isn't the only newsagent selling this first edition since the massacre. Lots of newsagens across the UK are going to be selling this copy. The only difference between her and the others is, she has let any would-be terrorists know where her and her customers can be found.

[DemolitionRed]

Well No.........not really

I am criticising people who have faith in a religion and decide to commit acts of mass murder because they think it would be offensive to their imaginery friend in the clouds.

slight difference....

.

So your not criticizing all Muslims then? make up your mind or get off the pot.

[user104658]

Someone, anyone please tell me why it is offensive to show a visual representation of an imaginery being ?

How is it offensive, why would it be offensive..........anyone with an IQ higher than an ant would have the sense to understand faith is just that Faith wishful thinking at best.

So why get angry ,offended, hurt, enraged, murderous, vengeful about something so damned esoteric.

It makes no sense at all

And to actually murder another human being, to take their life because they said or did something which upset your imaginery friend.

Well this to me is utterly incomprehensible, leaving me with the only rational explanation I have, which is that extreme religious belief like this is a form of acute mental illness and people displaying these more severe symptoms need to be removed from society and given treatment to help cure their affliction.

If no cure is possible then they should be removed from Humankind permanently as they are grave danger to normal people.

Oh and people who feed others these delusions should also be made to stop as it is a form of incitement or conspiracy to brainwash people into causing all manner of actual physical harm to otherwise innocent normal people.





.
The reasoning as far as I understand it has to do with it being against "the rules" to worship physical idols in Islam (e.g. The crucifix / statues of Mary in Christianity) and creating physical images of a prophet is inadvertently encouraging idolry. Also the arrogance of the artist assuming that they "know the face" of these holy figures to be able to draw them is apparently offensive.

Again though I am totally with you on religion, it's something I seriously struggle with when it comes to all organised religions. General spirituality, sure, I get it, there's much more to the universe than we know or are capable of understanding. But these rigid faiths with actual holy characters and people communicating with specific supernatural beings? I just can't get my head around how so many otherwise intelligent and educated people manage to convince themselves that it's anything more than a collection of morality tales written by other human beings a long time ago. To explain the unknown, to offer guidance. I even get WHY they created these stories. I absolutely cannot understand, though, why on earth people are still going along with it.

All I can assume is that the power of suggestion on a young mind is incredibly powerful for most people and most are brought into their churches from birth. But then, I was sent to church and Sunday school as a child and remember, aged around 6, just sitting and clear as a bell it dawning on me: "hold on a second... None of this makes any ****ing sense!". But then, when I went home and stated as much, I didn't have parents who turned around and tried to reinforce the nonsense. My mum was always a big "don't really know!" and my dad is a very much EX Catholic, although he had never shared his non-belief with me until I stated it for myself. I guess when it's reinforced in the home, every day, it really does seep right into every corner of a young mind.

Adults turning to religion seems to almost always be after a trauma or because they have a life that is generally going badly and they need something to latch onto.

[JoshBB]

It's only sure to escalate tensions towards the muslim community. Im all for freedom of expression, but I can't feel that people would feel so "je suis charlie" if it was an anti-semitic or anti-christian newspaper.

[MB.]

It's only sure to escalate tensions towards the muslim community. Im all for freedom of expression, but I can't feel that people would feel so "je suis charlie" if it was an anti-semitic or anti-christian newspaper.

It kind of is though, isn't it? Well, that could be argued, at least. I thought the point of Charlie Hebdo is that it isn't afraid to take swipes at any group, Jewish people and Christians included.

[DemolitionRed]

It kind of is though, isn't it? Well, that could be argued, at least. I thought the point of Charlie Hebdo is that it isn't afraid to take swipes at any group, Jewish people and Christians included.

Yep, spot on. Its a very satirical magazine and disliked by many across France but like someone else here said, "we have a right to offend and a right to be offended". If we don't like it we simply don't buy it.

[jennyjuniper]

Good for her!She's brave.What needs to happen really is every newspaper needs to print these cartoons at once all accross Europe.A team effort type thing.Then not just one is singled out.Show these terrorists that they can't use bully tactics to oppress.

I agree. But not just across Europe, how about the whole world joins in? That would show the f......s

[jennyjuniper]

Look while she sells it
Armed Police can covert watch over her.

But after that
she is on her own?



I am sorry but you are saying sell it
then get killed

And you are saying what,? cower in corners and let terrorisrts dictate what we say and do?

[arista]

ITV1 London news just shown a sign outside of a shop
for the mag.
But only the pavement and sign
not the shop that will soon sell the mag

[arista]

And you are saying what,? cower in corners and let terrorisrts dictate what we say and do?


No I am not


I am saying there is Brave and Stupid

So long as she knows she could go on a hit list

Its Up to her if she wants to sell them
maybe its the only way to make money
with bigger profits
but with a Security Risk.

[Nedusa]

The reasoning as far as I understand it has to do with it being against "the rules" to worship physical idols in Islam (e.g. The crucifix / statues of Mary in Christianity) and creating physical images of a prophet is inadvertently encouraging idolry. Also the arrogance of the artist assuming that they "know the face" of these holy figures to be able to draw them is apparently offensive.

Again though I am totally with you on religion, it's something I seriously struggle with when it comes to all organised religions. General spirituality, sure, I get it, there's much more to the universe than we know or are capable of understanding. But these rigid faiths with actual holy characters and people communicating with specific supernatural beings? I just can't get my head around how so many otherwise intelligent and educated people manage to convince themselves that it's anything more than a collection of morality tales written by other human beings a long time ago. To explain the unknown, to offer guidance. I even get WHY they created these stories. I absolutely cannot understand, though, why on earth people are still going along with it.

All I can assume is that the power of suggestion on a young mind is incredibly powerful for most people and most are brought into their churches from birth. But then, I was sent to church and Sunday school as a child and remember, aged around 6, just sitting and clear as a bell it dawning on me: "hold on a second... None of this makes any ****ing sense!". But then, when I went home and stated as much, I didn't have parents who turned around and tried to reinforce the nonsense. My mum was always a big "don't really know!" and my dad is a very much EX Catholic, although he had never shared his non-belief with me until I stated it for myself. I guess when it's reinforced in the home, every day, it really does seep right into every corner of a young mind.

Adults turning to religion seems to almost always be after a trauma or because they have a life that is generally going badly and they need something to latch onto.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:






.

[arista]

This women is not alone

BBC1 London News
has a interview with the West London
French Women Bookshop owner who is also selling it
she will soon be on TV in the next 20mins

[Livia]

The reasoning as far as I understand it has to do with it being against "the rules" to worship physical idols in Islam (e.g. The crucifix / statues of Mary in Christianity) and creating physical images of a prophet is inadvertently encouraging idolry. Also the arrogance of the artist assuming that they "know the face" of these holy figures to be able to draw them is apparently offensive.

Again though I am totally with you on religion, it's something I seriously struggle with when it comes to all organised religions. General spirituality, sure, I get it, there's much more to the universe than we know or are capable of understanding. But these rigid faiths with actual holy characters and people communicating with specific supernatural beings? I just can't get my head around how so many otherwise intelligent and educated people manage to convince themselves that it's anything more than a collection of morality tales written by other human beings a long time ago. To explain the unknown, to offer guidance. I even get WHY they created these stories. I absolutely cannot understand, though, why on earth people are still going along with it.

All I can assume is that the power of suggestion on a young mind is incredibly powerful for most people and most are brought into their churches from birth. But then, I was sent to church and Sunday school as a child and remember, aged around 6, just sitting and clear as a bell it dawning on me: "hold on a second... None of this makes any ****ing sense!". But then, when I went home and stated as much, I didn't have parents who turned around and tried to reinforce the nonsense. My mum was always a big "don't really know!" and my dad is a very much EX Catholic, although he had never shared his non-belief with me until I stated it for myself. I guess when it's reinforced in the home, every day, it really does seep right into every corner of a young mind.

Adults turning to religion seems to almost always be after a trauma or because they have a life that is generally going badly and they need something to latch onto.

Almost always? Really? That has not been my experience.

Respectfully, TS, suggesting people are a bit simple because they don't believe the same things that you do is a but much. I don't mind that you don't believe what I do, it doesn't affect me liking you as a forum member and I will make no effort whatsoever to make you try to understand my faith, it's totally your decision. Neither will I comment that you seem "otherwise educated and intelligent" but are really a bit dim because you don't have faith. I'd be willing to pitch my intelligence and education against anyone's, and yet I have faith. I can't explain it, I don't want to defend it and frankly I don't think I should have to.

And on topic... Islamic art is generally based on geometric designs and calligraphy. They don't hold with picturing living animals and people and in some Islamic pictures that do depict living creatures there will be a line through its neck representing it being dead. It's their thing... I do think they should have more of a sense of humour about it if its a non-Muslim producing the picture. Having said that, depicting their Prophet when it's strictly forbidden is a little provocative. Not that I think that should raise anything more than a protest and definitely not violence and killing.

[user104658]

Almost always? Really? That has not been my experience.

Respectfully, TS, suggesting people are a bit simple because they don't believe the same things that you do is a but much. I don't mind that you don't believe what I do, it doesn't affect me liking you as a forum member and I will make no effort whatsoever to make you try to understand my faith, it's totally your decision. Neither will I comment that you seem "otherwise educated and intelligent" but are really a bit dim because you don't have faith. I'd be willing to pitch my intelligence and education against anyone's, and yet I have faith. I can't explain it, I don't want to defend it and frankly I don't think I should have to.

And on topic... Islamic art is generally based on geometric designs and calligraphy. They don't hold with picturing living animals and people and in some Islamic pictures that do depict living creatures there will be a line through its neck representing it being dead. It's their thing... I do think they should have more of a sense of humour about it if its a non-Muslim producing the picture. Having said that, depicting their Prophet when it's strictly forbidden is a little provocative. Not that I think that should raise anything more than a protest and definitely not violence and killing.

I wasn't trying to say that it makes people simple, I probably should have left out the word "otherwise", my point was really that it baffles me more than anything else. I don't expect you or anyone to try to explain it, I've had a lot of discussions about it with a lot of people and I'm still left none the wiser; I know that it isn't logical, but then I'm reliably informed that, of course, that's what makes it "faith" in the first place. I also know that there are people more intelligent than either of us that believe, and that don't believe, and of course the same at the other end of the scale - some genuinely dim people who blindly follow what's been taught to them whether that's religion or atheism or just never having thought about it either way. It's certainly not an issue of intelligence or education.

However, yes, in answer to the first question "almost always" is in my experience accurate. Not for people who have been raised in a vaguely Christian environment but just weren't sure or slightly on the fence finding "true" faith or becoming more actively religious: but genuinely non-religious adults "finding god" is something that seems to be very rare unless they had some reason to be looking for God. Or looking for something, at least. Peace, maybe. Answers. The three most common causes of a massive turnaround in stance on religion are bereavement, serious illness such as cancer (facing one's own mortality), and addiction.

[Livia]

I wasn't trying to say that it makes people simple, I probably should have left out the word "otherwise", my point was really that it baffles me more than anything else. I don't expect you or anyone to try to explain it, I've had a lot of discussions about it with a lot of people and I'm still left none the wiser; I know that it isn't logical, but then I'm reliably informed that, of course, that's what makes it "faith" in the first place. I also know that there are people more intelligent than either of us that believe, and that don't believe, and of course the same at the other end of the scale - some genuinely dim people who blindly follow what's been taught to them whether that's religion or atheism or just never having thought about it either way. It's certainly not an issue of intelligence or education.

However, yes, in answer to the first question "almost always" is in my experience accurate. Not for people who have been raised in a vaguely Christian environment but just weren't sure or slightly on the fence finding "true" faith or becoming more actively religious: but genuinely non-religious adults "finding god" is something that seems to be very rare unless they had some reason to be looking for God. Or looking for something, at least. Peace, maybe. Answers. The three most common causes of a massive turnaround in stance on religion are bereavement, serious illness such as cancer (facing one's own mortality), and addiction.

Thanks for the clarification TS.

I see what you mean about people finding God in times of crisis. Of course there is an outside possibility that at the darkest times, it's God who finds them.